From owner-freebsd-questions Tue Aug 18 07:26:12 1998 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id HAA25510 for freebsd-questions-outgoing; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:26:12 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG) Received: from mail1.microsoft.com (mail1.microsoft.com [131.107.3.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id HAA25505 for ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:26:11 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from a-cbooth@microsoft.com) Received: by INET-IMC-01 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) id ; Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:25:27 -0700 Message-ID: <61AC5C9A4B9CD11181A200805F57CD54038C38A2@RED-MSG-44> From: "Christian Booth (Macrosearch Inc)" To: "'djv@bedford.net'" Cc: "'questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: RE: hummmmm... <-MICROSOFT.COM??? Date: Tue, 18 Aug 1998 07:25:10 -0700 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2232.9) Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Interesting.... >We all have to eat, I agree, but we do have a choice at which table we sit, don't we? Well Jesus sat with the Thieves and the Taxpayers. >At one point in my career, I said to myself that it would be better for me and my family to starve to death than to take money from the source it was coming from. To this I say that is on you if you would like to have your family starve that's ok with me! I choose to love my children! I also made a pretty hard move in my career, that was when I left Boeing as an IRIX admin, to go take a short 8 month opportunity. >There is no way to live inside the Beast and not ultimately become part of It. Digestion is Its most powerful force. Funny I think just because I leave on the 28th.. I came in for a big reason NT 5, well now that it has taken its true direction I head that way. >"How many M$ Professionals does it take to install FreeBSD?" Well it was actually one MS person, and that was me! The rest are either programmers and one other admin who is actually a Unix admin, and I have no shame asking the lists I mean that's how most of us learned things. You don't ask you don't know. Now its people like you that make people stupid cause they are afraid to ask, no to me that is pretty stupid on your part since you are supposed to be one of the people on "FreeBSD-questions" should you not change that to "rag-yourass@freebsd.org" >From another, most M$ types use hotmail or juno accounts for this sort of thing. It may even be M$ policy No actually its not. Even for newslist you can use it, now allot of people do that, but I figure your place would be one that was ok to not bother with hotmail. But with a flame like this I will be sure to let everyone know that your list has some trash talkers and they should not email you. >Another: Since M$ is ruining the careers of my brother hackers, forcing them into early retirements, throwing them on the streets, or deskilling them into NT-rebooters, and is foisting NT on the world without regard for either its technical or economic merits, whatever those may be, why should I help you? Really? Sounds to me like you are just another person trying to be on the hacker bandwagon. Why should you help me? Well if that is an issue then your mail should not be "questions" why would you be a big hypocrite and say "questions" when you don't really answer them!? >Another: You're on a mission for M$, which doesn't give tech support for free. What are you prepared to offer ME? let's talk $100/hr. No actually I am not on a mission for MS, I am on a mission of finding out if FreeBSD is better than LinuX? Pay you $100 hr? hahah, with your great customer service.. gee that's a tough one.. pay $100 bucks for attitude.. man I can get that anywhere for free... ------------------------------------------------------------------- Another: since you've got NT spewing out all over the place, why don't you use it? Don't trust your own work? Since when did it become my work?? I find it pretty funny.. I mean your ISP is a MS supporter.. and this is even cooler.. check it out.. Bedford.net policy. 2. No Advertising Other early policies included deciding on approaches to advertising and privacy. While you look around, you'll notice that we don't sell any advertising spaces on our website to other companies -- there's enough of that on the internet already. We sell internet service to you. We don't try to force-feed you advertising -- you didn't sign up for that. The Internet Explorer logo is an exception, as Microsoft requires it under a distribution agreement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Any links that we have to other sites are here because they are part of our community or because they provide something useful to the experience of our users, not because they are paying us to lure you to their site. Last thing, I got mail from about 4 other people at this list who were all very helpful polite and very willing to help. No I feel sorry for them that they are being represented with someone of your stature! You have one big problem and that is you are looking at the big picture, not the little one. So you think about that, oh and your little tag at the bottom.... >We're just wizards here, not mind readers. Unlike M$ "documentation", the stuff FreeBSD supplies is intended to be read. Thanks I will make sure everyone reads the stuff from FreeBSD Christian J.W. Booth Microsoft Certified Professional NT 5.0 Mig Team / SysAdmin Email: a-cbooth Phone: 23266 Teach us to number our days, that we may gain a heart of wisdom. -----Original Message----- From: djv@bedford.net [mailto:djv@bedford.net] Sent: Monday, August 17, 1998 5:29 PM To: Christian Booth (Macrosearch Inc) Subject: Re: hummmmm... <-MICROSOFT.COM??? Christian Booth wrote > ouch... I am getting slammed...man thats pretty weak... Jumpin on somebodys > case cause of where they work.. Well, I do know how that can be, but I didn't really say anything against the Beast, did I? We all have to eat, I agree, but we do have a choice at which table we sit, don't we? You don't have to take the Beast's favors. At one point in my career, I said to myself that it would be better for me and my family to starve to death than to take money from the source it was coming from. On that day, when I accepted any consequence at all, my soul was freed and my honor began to regrow. You don't have to do the things the Beast tells you to do. The Beast persuades and seduces, It does not compel. There is no way to live inside the Beast and not ultimately become part of It. Digestion is Its most powerful force. Consider both your own .sig and mine. > Teach us to number our days, > that we may gain a heart of wisdom. Confutatis maledictis, flammis acribus addictis. ------------------------------------------------------------------- >From another point of view, it's rather amusing that a room full of M$ experts can't seem to accomplish what a high school sophomore and a README file can. "How many M$ Professionals does it take to install FreeBSD?" "Ten. Nine to screw things up, and another to ask the lists." ------------------------------------------------------------------- >From another, most M$ types use hotmail or juno accounts for this sort of thing. It may even be M$ policy. A microsoft.com or even an msn.net email address leads straight to many people's killfiles. There's a war on, if you hadn't noticed. You're smack dab in the center of the enemy's camp right now, and many will consider you to be on some kind of evil mission. There have been M$ provocation campaigns before, often from known M$ spammers, on the Usenet groups, typically with content very similar to yours. "Why is this so hard to install?" Without any other data, the idea being to discourage newbies. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Another: Since M$ is ruining the careers of my brother hackers, forcing them into early retirements, throwing them on the streets, or deskilling them into NT-rebooters, and is foisting NT on the world without regard for either its technical or economic merits, whatever those may be, why should I help you? ------------------------------------------------------------------- Another: You're on a mission for M$, which doesn't give tech support for free. What are you prepared to offer ME? let's talk $100/hr. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Another: since you've got NT spewing out all over the place, why don't you use it? Don't trust your own work? ------------------------------------------------------------------- >From yet another, here's your original query and the response I would make if you weren't in the Beast. From: "Christian Booth (Macrosearch Inc)" Hello, Ok I downloaded the whole 2.2.7 got everything \bin \tools etc...etc... I put it on a 2 gig file server. After that 8 of my mate and I (all with differnent PC's) copied the files over to our systems, and then installed starting with the boot floppy. We ran in to alot of problems, most was not finding a file during the install, one could not find anything. I imaged the same folder structure that was in the handbook on every box, we formated our PC's and did this two more times still with 0 results. Could you please let me know what the secret formula is to install FreeBSD. We are all pretty decent UNIX users and some Admins. We have heard good things about FreeBSD so we thought that we would give it a try and maybe replace our LinuX servers with it, if it is good as we have heard. Thank you. Response: You will be much better off leaving the files on the server, and doing the installation from there using ftp, if the server is capable of ftp. Installing from a local disc partition is not such a good idea, particularly if running under non standard OS's, which may not properly preserve file names and permissions, or mysteriously lose files. Some pointers: a "folder" is properly called a "directory" in Unix; the term folder has small employment referring to a "mail folder", which is a file containing 1 or more email messages. The canonical directory name separator is the /, not the \ which is used to escape the following character. Perhaps you have mis-specified some filenames? In your case I would start over, having made space on whatever harddisk where 'BSD is to be installed. Then boot the installation floppy, correctly partition the harddisk, and then disklabel the partition dedicated to FreeBSD. Use an ftp installation from the server, specifying it by IP number, not name. A nameserver is not needed at this point, and in a M$ environment may cause trouble. When asking questions, it is a very good idea to specify completely what you are doing. In this case: Machine name, CPU type, memory, attached peripherals, naming them /explicitly/. I.e Seagate ST32550 drive on Adapatec AIC-7880 controller as ID 2, not "some SCSI drive". Exactly which steps in the installation process have been completed, and the precise error messages encountered. For example: "After completing the X-Developer level installation and setting up the networking, I exited installation and rebooted. The kernel did the device probes, but then panicked, saying; "Panic -- cannot mount root device", not "It doesn't work". We're just wizards here, not mind readers. Unlike M$ "documentation", the stuff FreeBSD supplies is intended to be read. 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