From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 00:22:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE2D2F3AC7 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic301-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic301-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XT194g1fz4QjQ for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: Gfmr7acVM1nwao7yaexhuQOQFKwtGpNSMp9MwBA9fR8wxUgtJca1SqltOQLOCfs vhWrQ0X75q9y9YHAv8KIPz36WaCyciwpA3JfR9qyxNsSjAn7bBYi03lBaxbCSwsZEh5CChBCQESf q_REMxZYmtJmM2u2337jx3tc0PuyIyAdWiWWRisGmxohorjKqY0AhNC9YbAI3yKfOiDMzVpDbMnQ FqXskf8H06JyWQJ6JwIrfNn4OcjE9dJcaHlN.jEXZsuBK5_l1MtMKNm78QPR8WA3sJfjURwzOXAA p6KQA_v1hgSf_5Jw.NRGZuq3TSNm9LVwwfdZW3bVcr1ThlToK50mjGlCiiJm9GPDBClXsBjqd5qT mw9Q0ByQnxwxQfi9HwsjU6htJ3X.IYtJu9ehwvtKomPRfGwtg_VElvVox.Skd1qmGlulyDDCKzBO tO6Y3lWbUvSOYcZYRbF26H6qh6RrYtYe.16nFyAjxpCY7oQyaBdTozqbeJhrlORNo0ulqAIahWba rz4wjPc.ZZo3J_TjqXj9pu5F9p4kpmi3oD8ZE5rgVZyjgrUxSDoyElHOidjxY8CvdiDc_Hty6Ex7 elg28WaZ3_lV18TVSd_e_Yz9.PWymBJp66d9D5tOgBKoo5pjPkaB2IgWYMAglgVoSk1R2XLK7T7a Gj2Ypmjs2yYrkl_AWJYH1nUf0x9HUiqRky1BhNnU_Nh4daFGT6XXL_ZTeelmxurQKqFlxva3ZnLx 0yEo2lbetYicGAVRbpwJlJ1EpkURcjldFt.1MrJ3MWUxPMaCJd8LPX8goEy8yHpLbmBx1x3_7N9h Ik9ayfJ7Z2bkv6o0l8XLx60HBaOubPJTfNdFP3aUP8LvUTfK9OUgCkLDwEzXHhi1.YEHD.9ZHN.0 WdSa3sNTjhcDETkixNHaZii0Rozjqz5KhiOBTlWC37ecOtMFUF_2v09u7tQfQ.b.JMXwkh_PDPm4 0IDR3JBAn1r9BmtCnbTsjFiLUN34tiX4EyCGwxAzbPXQIY_1zmbU.8hwCVK0OyPGiv0ijcXmlOl0 jhd3fK1_LY28Zs4yjcCnWqFkJWbsMtpljDInmr.._nApfI1vio7Sblydcb8JEmm4JQ42TUoEWdBQ SPmtIRdoaW1gKmdOPB2zhMbyk_diqlOP.E2tzAog518TMEUF5GMkOGG.o0CH98wGFTxQe6ruQFl0 WbjB1FACx6jaMKM74Cm7B8uPAr2XFBQxpf32zLoN4h7O8AV5TH6zyLOrrqw5qzVoYgMrNeQ0GVO0 kIotBAQzufwvEW2KVnwrqliUL4X1v3Oi_DftNIsyaRRdQGerQubEyLuGewkfZD94.1aj_mMwWfsP BC1Fr6UIw7liE55YrR0fKIdXfCfClQBmTKNcK5E_5cDgnj6c7hPwn0TOYghKY7pyXggCvmcq5Zfu dlQZ6iRp7saTcnCaZbKs- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:35 +0000 Received: by smtp409.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fd227bbd171a5ec0ffa986ed9a27a95a; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:32 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 02:22:32 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XT194g1fz4QjQ X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.17 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.97:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.66)[-0.664]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.005]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.97:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:39 -0000 My reply is intended as an explanation for the OP, not a reply addressed to Aryeh Friedman. On Wed, 27 May 2020 16:48:56 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >Will it? Almost all the best IT/programmers I know started with just >as difficult of a challenge so if the OP wants to do something hard >from the get go let them. Many skilled coders never maintained an official port for a BSD or Linux distro. Lots of them try to avoid soname issues [1] by not linking against shared libs of BSD or Linux default installs and they try to workaround other pitfalls, too. Let alone that some very skilled coders even don't support BSD or Linux at all. One of the best, if not the best professional EQ is from fab filters. "We're not planning support for Linux any time soon. It's a significant amount of work, and testing is harder than on Windows or Mac because there are various major Linux distributions, all with subtle differences. And of course the market is very small." https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/2924/linux-support-with-new-vst-sdk?replies=3 It's more or less the same for FreeBSD. "Maintaining" even a binary blob that doesn't link against shared libraries is still time consuming. While unskilled but giftet people might learn better when starting programming a more challenging software, than when programming something trivial, maintaining a port that needs to fulfil the policy of an operating system gains not that much, than first learning the basics without taking care about port guidelines. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book.html The porters handbook and similar guidelines of other operating systems don't help a novice to become familiar with computers and/or a particular operating system. Trying to become familiar with computers and FreeBSD by maintaining a port is like hanging wallpaper to alongside learn how to lay bricks, too. You could do that, but especially to learn use of computers, it's way better to start a little bit structured. IOW first lay bricks, than hang the wallpaper. Starting with the wallpaper is a poorly structured strategy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soname