From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 02:15:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id CAA27489 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cheops.anu.edu.au (avalon@cheops.anu.edu.au [150.203.76.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA27478 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 02:15:34 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610060915.CAA27478@freefall.freebsd.org> Received: by cheops.anu.edu.au (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA176883232; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:13:52 +1000 From: Darren Reed Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:13:52 +1000 (EST) Cc: kpneal@pobox.com, terry@lambert.org, avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org, tech-kern@netbsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610031734.KAA06317@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Oct 3, 96 10:34:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: > > > Ok. Doesn't this assume that whatever is sitting on top of the partition > > is a filesystem? What if it isn't? What if a database or something or > > other is sitting on top? Would resizing be possible? Wouldn't the mechanism > > of communicating the resize be different because of the user program > > hitting the disk instead of going through a filesystem? > > You would only allow vetted changes. I there was a database (actually, > a private FS for a database) there, then the change would probably not > be vetted. If it's not vetted, it's disallowed (and a veto is given > using the default vetting code). What you might want to do is disallow changes (in size) to any partition that is "open" and is not of a (mounted) type which recognises shrink/grow dynamically. Growing a filesystem can be broken into two phases: * increasing the physical allocation map * initializing the new area (a la newfs) and making it recognisable However, when changing the size of a logical volume (i.e. "partition") you need not require that it be umount'd or not open. Being able to "rationalize" disk space would be nice too, so that if you've used 60% of a logical volume and want to reduce it to make space for elsewhere, you can make sure that 60% is compactly used and not scattered. If you're using something like ingres and have a logical volume set up for your log file, obviously you're going to need to rerun the ingres program that makes it usable by ingres. Another concept which might be useful is that of "contiguous allocation". It may be useful to require a swap area be contiguous. With respect to growing a swap area, why not just make a new swap area and swapon ? Darren From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 05:13:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id FAA13024 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mh004.infi.net (mh004.infi.net [198.22.1.119]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA13015 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 05:13:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pa9dsp22.orf.infi.net by mh004.infi.net with SMTP (Infinet-S-3.3) id IAA27333; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: by pa9dsp22.orf.infi.net with Microsoft Mail id <01BBB35C.E918CB60@pa9dsp22.orf.infi.net>; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:03:51 -0400 Message-ID: <01BBB35C.E918CB60@pa9dsp22.orf.infi.net> From: Mike Goodrich To: "hackers@FreeBSD.org" Cc: "'Ron Steele'" Subject: Troubles with boot.flp/FTP install Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:01:11 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Greetings All: I am trying to install FreeBSD using the FTP server option under thet Novice install option. Everything seems to work until I select "PPP on Com2", and do the Alt-F3 then "Term". As I understand it, this is supposed to put me in comms with my modem so I can dial my ISP, etc. However I get nothing, and a breakout box on my modem port (com2) reveals NO activity. Any help is greatly appreciated. BTW there is nothing particularly weird about my setup. Thanx in advance... --Mike From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 07:08:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA17404 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:08:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (mexico.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA17386 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:07:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (brasil.brainstorm.eu.org [193.56.58.33]) by mexico.brainstorm.eu.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15375 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:07:04 +0100 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by brasil.brainstorm.eu.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with UUCP id QAA23408 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:07:00 +0200 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.8.0/keltia-uucp-2.9) id LAA06403; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:25:31 +0200 (MET DST) Message-Id: <199610060925.LAA06403@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:25:30 +0200 From: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nullfs: Panicing... In-Reply-To: <199610060359.AAA00618@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br>; from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis on Oct 6, 1996 00:59:08 -0300 References: <199610060359.AAA00618@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.45i Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#2522 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis: > approach was to use nullfs, but everytime I try to edit (vi) > a file in the nullfs mounted directory, the system panics. Everything > else works (or seens to work) ok. > Is this already known ? Yes.Some of the special filesystems are broken since we got an unified VM/buffer cache (just after FreeBSD 2.0). John said he will fix them for 2.2. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.freenix.fr FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #23: Sun Sep 29 14:56:23 MET DST 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 07:21:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA18147 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:21:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA18142 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:21:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA15666; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:21:07 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA12926; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:21:07 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id QAA07991; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:03:54 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610061403.QAA07991@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: su problem To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:03:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610060650.XAA02320@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Oct 5, 96 11:50:49 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Amancio Hasty wrote: > I noticed that if i tried to start program in my rc.local like > > su -l hasty > > it gets a core dump... Analyze it. That's what coredumps are for. Are you sure that it's not actually su -l hasty -c "" what you're looking for? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 07:27:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA19479 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:27:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com (hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com [158.186.22.100]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA19472 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.sso.wdl.lmco.com by hps.sso.wdl.lmco.com (4.1/SSO-4.01-LMCO) id AA03061; Sun, 6 Oct 96 10:26:56 EDT Received: by miles.sso.wdl.lmco.com (4.1/SSO-SUN-2.04) id AA08943; Sun, 6 Oct 96 10:24:32 EDT Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:24:30 -0400 (EDT) From: Richard Toren X-Sender: rpt@miles To: hackers Subject: Re: Netscape 3.0 release Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK Folks, There must be someone out there who does have this puppy working. Lets start from a common baseline of information: product:netscape-v30-export.x86-unknown-bsd.tar.gz Xserver: XF86 OS: FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE Execution: /usr/local/bin/netscape = #!/bin/sh export XKEYSYMDB ; XKEYSYMDB=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/XKeysymDB export XNLSPATH ; XNLSPATH=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/nls export XAPPLRESDIR ; XAPPLRESDIR=/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/app-defaults export CLASSPATH ; CLASSPATH=/usr/local/lib/netscape exec /u2/local/src/netscape30R/netscape $* Results: running 'ktrace netscape -java sun.tools.javac.Main Test.java' results in the partial series of: 264 netscape CALL stat(0x4aa980,0xefbfbee0) 264 netscape NAMI "." 264 netscape RET stat 0 264 netscape CALL stat(0x4aa982,0xefbfbee0) 264 netscape NAMI "classes" 264 netscape RET stat -1 errno 2 No such file or directory 264 netscape CALL open(0xefbfbf54,0x4,0x1a4) 264 netscape NAMI "./java/lang/Thread.class" 264 netscape RET open -1 errno 2 No such file or directory 264 netscape CALL open(0xefbfbf54,0x4,0x1a4) 264 netscape NAMI "classes/java/lang/Thread.class" 264 netscape RET open -1 errno 2 No such file or directory 264 netscape CALL write(0x2,0xefbfba24,0x41) 264 netscape GIO fd 2 wrote 65 bytes "Unable to initialize threads: cannot find class java/lang/Thread " 264 netscape RET write 65/0x41 264 netscape CALL exit(0x1) without ever making a getenv call for anything. This looks like a hardcoded search order, regardless of the environment. And searching for all the java files in /usr/local I have scattered about trying to get this to work gives: # find . -name "java*" -ls 9360 1440 -r--r--r-- 1 root bin 723652 Oct 4 08:58 ./lib/netscape/java_30 9352 1440 -rw-r--r-- 1 bin bin 723022 Aug 8 23:08 ./lib/netscape/java_30.306b 35824 4 drwxrwxr-x 3 root wheel 512 Oct 6 09:51 ./netscape/java 35826 1440 -r--r--r-- 1 root wheel 723652 Oct 6 09:52 ./netscape/java/classes/java_30 Now what is different for someone who has this puppy running sucessfuly? ==================================================== Rip Toren | The bad news is that C++ is not an object-oriented | rpt@sso.wdl.lmco.com | programming language. .... The good news is that | | C++ supports object-oriented programming. | | C++ Programming & Fundamental Concepts | | by Anderson & Heinze | ==================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 07:47:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id HAA22340 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:47:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22334 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA29891; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 07:47:22 -0700 (PDT) To: Richard Toren cc: hackers Subject: Re: Netscape 3.0 release In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 10:24:30 EDT." Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 07:47:22 -0700 Message-ID: <29889.844613242@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Now what is different for someone who has this puppy running sucessfuly? For one thing, I'll bet a lot are running > 2.1.0-RELEASE. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 08:07:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA23468 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:07:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veda.is (root@veda.is [193.4.230.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA23442 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:07:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA04362; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:07:26 GMT Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:07:26 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199610061507.PAA04362@veda.is> To: jonny@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.BR (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nullfs: Panicing... Newsgroups: list.freebsd.hackers References: <199610060359.AAA00618@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I want to make parts of a file system available to anon ftp, whose >chrooted directory is located at another file system. My first >approach was to use nullfs, but everytime I try to edit (vi) >a file in the nullfs mounted directory, the system panics. Everything >else works (or seens to work) ok. > I already had problems with vi and nullfs in NetBSD, caused by the >mmap nature of vi. Maybe this is the case, too. > This problem happens at 2.1.0 and 2.1.5 releases. Does not matter >if the nullfs is mounted read-only or if vi is called in the its read- >only from (view). Probably mmap then, since read-only access typically worked already otherwise. >PS: I'm now using NFS to localhost, as a workaround. I had to abandon this approach and use symlinks instead, once the directory had outgrown a certain size. Perhaps there is no longer any such size limit, but I don't have the stomach at the moment to risk it. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 08:34:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA24740 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veda.is (root@veda.is [193.4.230.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA24730 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:34:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.6/8.7.3) id PAA05375; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:33:55 GMT Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:33:55 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199610061533.PAA05375@veda.is> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.0 #2 (NOV) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk High on my wish list is for ps to produce what output it can, instead of exiting prematurely. It could complain about the proc mismatch and then list the names and pids before exiting. ps manages to find this information when ps and kernel are out of sync, so long as /proc is not mounted. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 08:59:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA26395 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from itchy.mindspring.com (itchy.mindspring.com [204.180.128.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA26386 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 08:59:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from borg.mindspring.com (borg.mindspring.com [204.180.128.14]) by itchy.mindspring.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA25909; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bogus.mindspring.com (user-168-121-39-4.dialup.mindspring.com [168.121.39.4]) by borg.mindspring.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA16225; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:59:35 -0400 Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.19961006155941.00691300@mindspring.com> X-Sender: kpneal@mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 11:59:41 -0400 To: Darren Reed From: "Kevin P. Neal" Subject: Re: VPS mailing list, BSD interest? Cc: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert), avalon@coombs.anu.edu.au, jrg@demon.net, mrg@eterna.com.au, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk At 07:13 PM 10/6/96 +1000, Darren Reed wrote: >In some mail from Terry Lambert, sie said: >> >> > Ok. Doesn't this assume that whatever is sitting on top of the partition >> > is a filesystem? What if it isn't? What if a database or something or >> > other is sitting on top? Would resizing be possible? Wouldn't the mechanism >> > of communicating the resize be different because of the user program >> > hitting the disk instead of going through a filesystem? >> >> You would only allow vetted changes. I there was a database (actually, >> a private FS for a database) there, then the change would probably not >> be vetted. If it's not vetted, it's disallowed (and a veto is given >> using the default vetting code). > >What you might want to do is disallow changes (in size) to any partition >that is "open" and is not of a (mounted) type which recognises shrink/grow >dynamically. Hmmm. Ah, yes sounds good. >Being able to "rationalize" disk space would be nice too, so that if you've >used 60% of a logical volume and want to reduce it to make space for >elsewhere, you can make sure that 60% is compactly used and not scattered. Which still requires the LVM to talk to the FS. The FS has to be told to get out of the way of a shrink. The FS has to tell the LVM the smallest it can go (this might not be an obvious number). >If you're using something like ingres and have a logical volume set up for >your log file, obviously you're going to need to rerun the ingres program >that makes it usable by ingres. It's going to have to be very flexable....Sounds error prone. >Another concept which might be useful is that of "contiguous allocation". >It may be useful to require a swap area be contiguous. With respect to >growing a swap area, why not just make a new swap area and swapon ? What if I want to _delete_ swap space. Shrink a partition? Can the FreeBSD VM system move pages out of the way (didn't someone else say it couldn't?), and if not, how hard is that to add? Can the FreeBSD VM system add random partitions to be swap space, like NetBSD's system can't? -- XCOMM Kevin P. Neal, Sophomore, Comp. Sci. \ kpneal@pobox.com XCOMM "Corrected!" -- Old Amiga tips file \ kpneal@eos.ncsu.edu XCOMM Visit the House of Retrocomputing: / Perm. Email: XCOMM http://www.pobox.com/~kpn/ / kevinneal@bix.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 10:03:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA29885 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:03:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA29880 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:03:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA07997; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:02:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610061702.KAA07997@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: su problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 16:03:54 +0200." <199610061403.QAA07991@uriah.heep.sax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 10:02:47 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Do you mind trying it? !! Amancio >From The Desk Of J Wunsch : > As Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > I noticed that if i tried to start program in my rc.local like > > > > su -l hasty > > > > it gets a core dump... > > Analyze it. That's what coredumps are for. > > Are you sure that it's not actually > > su -l hasty -c "" > > what you're looking for? > > -- > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 10:22:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA00998 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:22:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA00960 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA19183 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:21:59 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA18766 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:21:59 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA08903 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:17:16 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610061717.TAA08903@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: PS broke again -- what has to be rebuilt to stop this? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:17:16 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610061533.PAA05375@veda.is> from Adam David at "Oct 6, 96 03:33:55 pm" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Adam David wrote: > High on my wish list is for ps to produce what output it can, instead of > exiting prematurely. I was also contemplating the idea of a ``mini ps'' that would fit on the fixit floppy, and could display all the information that can be obtained via procfs. Mounting procfs is an easy task, even for the fixit floppy, and i think this should already yield 80 or 90 % of the entire ps(1) information. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 10:51:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA02367 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA02357 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 10:51:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id TAA19863 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:51:18 +0200 Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id TAA19214 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:51:18 +0200 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.5/8.6.9) id TAA09085 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199610061732.TAA09085@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: su problem To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:32:20 +0200 (MET DST) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199610061702.KAA07997@rah.star-gate.com> from Amancio Hasty at "Oct 6, 96 10:02:47 am" X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-PGP-Fingerprint: DC 47 E6 E4 FF A6 E9 8F 93 21 E0 7D F9 12 D6 4E X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL17 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Amancio Hasty wrote: > Do you mind trying it? !! Try what? uriah # su -l j id id: No such file or directory. uriah # su -l j /usr/bin/id Ì^Æ^À: Command not found. ^Ë^C£^D1^À8t^U^Ð^À8/u: Event not found. uriah # su -l j -c /usr/bin/id uid=107(j) gid=101(other) groups=101(other), 0(wheel), 5(operator), 7(bin), 8(news), 31(guest), 40(cvs), 41(msql), 66(uucp), 117(dialer), 5001(ppp) So what? There's nothing that will help you than debugging your own core. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 11:43:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04144 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (root@cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.2.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04139 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:43:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA05809; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:43:09 -0200 (EDT) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199610061843.QAA05809@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Re: nullfs: Panicing... To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:43:09 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610061507.PAA04362@veda.is> from Adam David at "Oct 6, 96 03:07:26 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL14 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #define quoting(Adam David) // > I want to make parts of a file system available to anon ftp, whose // >chrooted directory is located at another file system. My first // >approach was to use nullfs, but everytime I try to edit (vi) // >a file in the nullfs mounted directory, the system panics. Everything // >else works (or seens to work) ok. // // > I already had problems with vi and nullfs in NetBSD, caused by the // >mmap nature of vi. Maybe this is the case, too. // // > This problem happens at 2.1.0 and 2.1.5 releases. Does not matter // >if the nullfs is mounted read-only or if vi is called in the its read- // >only from (view). // // Probably mmap then, since read-only access typically worked already otherwise. // // >PS: I'm now using NFS to localhost, as a workaround. // // I had to abandon this approach and use symlinks instead, once the directory // had outgrown a certain size. Perhaps there is no longer any such size limit, // but I don't have the stomach at the moment to risk it. I cannot symlink to anon ftp. It's chrooted, remember ? :) // // -- // Adam David // Jonny -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 ( Job ) jonny@cisi.coppe.ufrj.br Network Manager UFRJ/COPPE/CISI Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 11:45:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA04312 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:45:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04307 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 11:45:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) id NAA00253; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:45:06 -0500 (EST) From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199610061845.NAA00253@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: nullfs: Panicing... To: roberto@keltia.freenix.fr (Ollivier Robert) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:45:06 -0500 (EST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610060925.LAA06403@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Oct 6, 96 11:25:30 am Reply-To: dyson@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > According to Joao Carlos Mendes Luis: > > approach was to use nullfs, but everytime I try to edit (vi) > > a file in the nullfs mounted directory, the system panics. Everything > > else works (or seens to work) ok. > > > Is this already known ? > > Yes.Some of the special filesystems are broken since we got an unified > VM/buffer cache (just after FreeBSD 2.0). John said he will fix them for > 2.2. > I hope to fix them, but the ~hsu VFS stuff needs to be committed. I am working on LFS (with a practically complete re-do for efficiency.) John From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 12:40:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA06295 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:40:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA06290 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:40:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA00312; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:40:01 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610061940.MAA00312@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: su problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 19:32:20 +0200." <199610061732.TAA09085@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 12:40:00 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Lets see: $ whoami $ root $ cat /usr/home/hasty/foo $!/bin/sh ls $ cd /usr/home/hasty $ sh -l hasty foo .... work-src write-file~ x xess ... So it works... Now, in /etc/rc.local su -l hasty -c /usr/home/hasty/foo su -l hasty /usr/home/hasty/foo When the system boots up , it generates : Oct 6 12:30:20 rah /kernel: pid 171 (su), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 Oct 6 12:30:21 rah /kernel: pid 172 (su), uid 1000: exited on signal 11 No coredump gets generated , I guess I have to modify su to generate a coredump when it gets a signal 11. Amancio >From The Desk Of J Wunsch : > As Amancio Hasty wrote: > > > Do you mind trying it? !! > > Try what? > > uriah # su -l j id > id: No such file or directory. > uriah # su -l j /usr/bin/id > =CC^=C6^=C0: Command not found. > ^=CB^C=A3^D1^=C08t^U^=D0^=C08/u: Event not found. > uriah # su -l j -c /usr/bin/id > uid=3D107(j) gid=3D101(other) groups=3D101(other), 0(wheel), 5(operator),= > 7(bin), 8(news), 31(guest), 40(cvs), 41(msql), 66(uucp), 117(dialer), 50= > 01(ppp) > > > So what? There's nothing that will help you than debugging your own > core. > > --=20 > cheers, J"org > > joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-= > RIPE > Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 12:54:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA07027 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scooter.quickweb.com (scooter.quickweb.com [199.212.134.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07017 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 12:54:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (mark@localhost) by scooter.quickweb.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA02244; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:49:27 -0400 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:49:26 -0400 (EDT) From: Mark Mayo X-Sender: mark@scooter.quickweb.com To: Jake Hamby cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.0.2 SIGSEGV?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > Has anyone tried the FreeBSD JDK 1.0.2 that was recently posted? For some > reason, it always crashes with a SIGSEGV, and prints: > > SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation > sig 11, code 12 or 0xc, sc 0xefbfd710, addr 0x1c > > Full thread dump: > > ... and then it hangs here ... What is crashing? javac, java, or appletviewer?? On my system, everything run just fine!! The only exception was the appletviewer, which crashed out just like you mentioned unless it was running in 8bpp or 24bpp -- so when I ran appletviewer on 32k colors, it dumped out.. I'm assuming this is your problem. Also, I had to change the scripts a little to hardwire in my CLASSPATH and substituted `arch` with i386. Otherwise, the JDK works great (I've been using it all weekend for a course!) -- many thanks to the author! I would be col, however, if the appletviewer would work in 16bpp --> then FreeBSD would be better than Sun for java developemnt :-) cya, -Mark ------------------------------------------- | Mark Mayo mark@quickweb.com | | C-Soft www.quickweb.com | ------------------------------------------- "To iterate is human, to recurse divine." - L. Peter Deutsch > GDB is useless because the binary is stripped. > ktrace is useless because no system calls are being accessed (other than > break to grab more memory). > > Has anything in -current changed since the JDK was built (I'm running > today's -current) that could cause this problem? Has anyone successfully > run the JDK? I know this package is unsupported by the author, that's why > I'm posting here. Help! > > -- Jake > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 13:29:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA08920 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:29:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com ([206.103.246.190]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA08915 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:29:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gargoyle.bazzle.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gargoyle.bazzle.com (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA00333; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:28:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:28:57 -0400 (EDT) From: "Eric J. Chet" To: Amancio Hasty cc: Joerg Wunsch , FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: su problem In-Reply-To: <199610061940.MAA00312@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio I'm seeing the same problem with su at boot time. Oct 6 16:16:49 gargoyle /kernel: pid 144 (su), uid 70: exited on signal 11 /usr/local/etc/rc.d/postgres95.sh: [ -x /usr/local/postgres95/bin/postmaster ] && su -l postgres -c "/usr/local/postgres95/bin/postmaster &" && echo -n ' postgres95' I can start postgres by hand: sudo /usr/local/etc/rc.d/postgres95.sh works just fine, but su dies at boot time? Humm.... Eric J. Chet - ejc@bazzle.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 13:30:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA09043 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from veda.is (root@veda.is [193.4.230.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA09035 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from adam@localhost) by veda.is (8.7.6/8.7.3) id UAA14571; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:30:09 GMT From: Adam David Message-Id: <199610062030.UAA14571@veda.is> Subject: Re: nullfs: Panicing... To: jonny@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (Joao Carlos Mendes Luis) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 20:30:07 +0000 (GMT) Cc: jonny@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610061843.QAA05809@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> from Joao Carlos Mendes Luis at "Oct 6, 96 04:43:09 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > // >PS: I'm now using NFS to localhost, as a workaround. > // > // I had to abandon this approach and use symlinks instead, once the directory > // had outgrown a certain size. Perhaps there is no longer any such size limit, > // but I don't have the stomach at the moment to risk it. > > I cannot symlink to anon ftp. It's chrooted, remember ? :) You can symlink in the other direction, but perhaps that is not appropriate for your particular situation. It might at least be acceptable, though less than convenient. -- Adam David From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 13:48:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA10164 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:48:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (root@cisigw.coppe.ufrj.br [146.164.2.31]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10157 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 13:48:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jonny@localhost) by mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA07079; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:48:10 -0200 (EDT) From: Joao Carlos Mendes Luis Message-Id: <199610062048.SAA07079@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br> Subject: Found a BUG and partial solution (was: nullfs: Panicing...) To: adam@veda.is (Adam David) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:48:10 -0200 (EDT) Cc: jonny@mailhost.coppe.ufrj.br, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610062030.UAA14571@veda.is> from Adam David at "Oct 6, 96 08:30:07 pm" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL14 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #define quoting(Adam David) // > // >PS: I'm now using NFS to localhost, as a workaround. // > // // > // I had to abandon this approach and use symlinks instead, once the directory // > // had outgrown a certain size. Perhaps there is no longer any such size limit, // > // but I don't have the stomach at the moment to risk it. // > // > I cannot symlink to anon ftp. It's chrooted, remember ? :) // // You can symlink in the other direction, but perhaps that is not appropriate // for your particular situation. It might at least be acceptable, though less // than convenient. Disk Space, the final frontier. These are the voyages of the StarShip BSD. :-) Analysing the sources I found the (first) point of failure: Seens to me that there's a line missing near the end of nullfs_mount() calling nullfs_statfs( mp, &mp->mnt_stat, p ); It's strange, since nullfs_statfs() has a check to verify if it has been called this way... The problem was caused by a division by zero at vnode_pager_haspage(), line 313: block = offset / vp->v_mount->mnt_stat.f_iosize; ^^^^^^^^ But yet, it still does not work. Now it's a problem of page fault while in kernel mode. My knowledge of BSD internals is not enough to find the problem anymore... Jonny PS: I'm talking about the sources of 2.1.5-RELEASE -- Joao Carlos Mendes Luis jonny@gta.ufrj.br +55 21 290-4698 ( Job ) jonny@cisi.coppe.ufrj.br Network Manager UFRJ/COPPE/CISI Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 14:15:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA11343 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:15:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de [134.147.6.16]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA11334 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from roberte@localhost) by ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (8.7.5/8.7.3) id XAA01101; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:15:17 +0200 (MET DST) From: Robert Eckardt Message-Id: <199610062115.XAA01101@ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Subject: Re: su problem In-Reply-To: <199610061403.QAA07991@uriah.heep.sax.de> from J Wunsch at "6. Oct. 96 16:03:22" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:15:15 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL25 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > su -l hasty > > > > it gets a core dump... > > Analyze it. That's what coredumps are for. > > Are you sure that it's not actually > > su -l hasty -c "" It would be nice if this would work. I was searching for that feature since the time I changed from SysVr3.2 to FreeBSD. (And it's not in the manpage.) Is the missing ability to execute commands like sh BSD-specific or a security precaution ? Robert -- Robert Eckardt \\ FreeBSD -- solutions for a large universe.(tm) RobertE@MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de \\ What do you want to boot tomorrow ?(tm) http://WWW.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de/~roberte For PGP-key finger roberte@gluon.MEP.Ruhr-Uni-Bochum.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 14:36:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA12600 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:36:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA12592 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:36:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00365; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:36:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610062136.OAA00365@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: Robert Eckardt cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: su problem In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 23:15:15 +0200." <199610062115.XAA01101@ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 14:36:27 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >From The Desk Of Robert Eckardt : > > > su -l hasty > > > > > > it gets a core dump... > > > > Analyze it. That's what coredumps are for. > > > > Are you sure that it's not actually > > > > su -l hasty -c "" > > It would be nice if this would work. > I was searching for that feature since the time I changed > from SysVr3.2 to FreeBSD. (And it's not in the manpage.) > > Is the missing ability to execute commands like sh BSD-specific > or a security precaution ? > > Robert Hi , The problem is easy . I just ran the debugger in rc.local and debugged su . What it show is that su does: p = getenv("TERM"); cleanenv[0] = NULL; environ = cleanenv; (void)setenv("PATH", _PATH_DEFPATH, 1); (void)setenv("TERM", p, 1); ^^^ p is NULL because TERM is not defined if (chdir(pwd->pw_dir) < 0) errx(1, "no directory"); } if (asthem || pwd->pw_uid) (void)setenv("USER", pwd->pw_name, 1); (void)setenv("HOME", pwd->pw_dir, 1); (void)setenv("SHELL", shell, 1); So I stuck in rc.local : HOME=/root GROUP=wheel SHELL=/bin/sh LOGNAME=root cd /root PWD=/root TERM=cons25 export TERM PWD HOME GROUP LOGNAME su -l hasty /usr/home/hasty/foo And now su works.... Someone should review "su.c". Thank you, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 14:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13503 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [204.216.27.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA13492 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:49:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jkh@localhost) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.6/8.6.9) id OAA12329 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:49:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 14:49:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Message-Id: <199610062149.OAA12329@time.cdrom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A heavy day for ftp.cdrom.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk (Someone must have released something) jkh@wcarchive-> ftpcount Service class mirror-ftpserv - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-freebsd - 0 users ( 20 maximum) Service class mirror-linux - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-demos - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class mirror-os2 - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class local - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class remote - 0 users ( 10 maximum) Service class anonymous - 1199 users (1200 maximum) jkh@wcarchive-> w 2:48PM up 7:33, 4 users, load averages: 2.46, 2.09, 2.16 jkh@wcarchive-> ps ax | wc 1383 10521 104782 And all with a load average of <3. Anyone who tells you that a FreeBSD box just can't cut it under serious load simply doesn't know what they're talking about.. :-) Interactive response is still excellent, BTW. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:06:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA14453 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:06:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (root@mail.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.13]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14447 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:06:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from campa.panke.de (anonymous216.ppp.cs.tu-berlin.de [130.149.17.216]) by mail.cs.tu-berlin.de (8.6.13/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA02805; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:44:39 +0200 Received: (from wosch@localhost) by campa.panke.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA02876; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:24:27 +0200 Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:24:27 +0200 From: Wolfram Schneider Message-Id: <199610062124.XAA02876@campa.panke.de> To: Amancio Hasty Cc: Bruce Evans , garycorc@mail.idt.net, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no Subject: HyperMail? (was Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. ) In-Reply-To: <199610031109.EAA00306@rah.star-gate.com> References: <199610030921.TAA08955@godzilla.zeta.org.au> <199610031109.EAA00306@rah.star-gate.com> Reply-to: Wolfram Schneider MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty writes: >Has anyone thought of archiving mail in html format with a tool >similar to Hypermail?? > >Hypermail is a mail to html converter. I tried it and gave up. Hypermail is buggy and core'd with large input (> 1000-3000 mails). Wolfram From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:10:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA14788 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:10:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14756 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:10:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rover.village.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.7.6/8.6.6) with ESMTP id QAA28418; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:09:10 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199610062209.QAA28418@rover.village.org> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Subject: Re: A heavy day for ftp.cdrom.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 14:49:34 PDT." <199610062149.OAA12329@time.cdrom.com> References: <199610062149.OAA12329@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 16:09:09 -0600 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message <199610062149.OAA12329@time.cdrom.com> "Jordan K. Hubbard" writes: : Interactive response is still excellent, BTW. Jordan, what's wcarchive's hardware these days? It would be nice to know so that I can include it in a talk I'm putting together for a local users group meeting coming up. Any idea how many web hits are going on at the same time? Finally, is there any "standard" 15 minute talk on FreeBSD, what its features are, etc? Thanks a bunch... Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:12:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15018 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:12:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14926 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00593 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610062211.PAA00593@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Another question: kernel crash dumps 8) Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:11:14 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk #15 0xf01d3f53 in trap_fatal (frame=0xf021fe94) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:737 #16 0xf01d3a4c in trap_pfault (frame=0xf021fe94, usermode=0) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:652 #17 0xf01d36f7 in trap (frame={tf_es = 196624, tf_ds = 262160, tf_edi = -1073741824, tf_esi = 24499, tf_ebp = -266207472, tf_isp = -266207556, tf_ebx = 3, tf_edx = 6553500, tf_ecx = 4, tf_eax = -219578368, tf_trapno = 12, tf_err = 0, tf_eip = -266385786, tf_cs = 8, tf_eflags = 66070, tf_esp = 3, tf_ss = 21}) at ../../i386/i386/trap.c:311 #18 0xf01cb6c1 in calltrap () #19 0xf01f50f1 in guswave_start_note (dev=0, voice=21, note_num=19, volume=110) The crash dump looks okay except that the kernel die on guswave_start_note2 and it would be nice to examine the routine guswave_start_note2 which I can't with my crash dump. So it seems that the current running routine's context is not being saved. Any *useful* insight Tnks, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:12:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15059 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:12:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [207.67.176.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15051 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:12:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (jehamby@localhost) by covina.lightside.com (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11824; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:11:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Jake Hamby To: Mark Mayo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: JDK 1.0.2 SIGSEGV?! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Oct 1996, Mark Mayo wrote: > On Sat, 5 Oct 1996, Jake Hamby wrote: > > > Has anyone tried the FreeBSD JDK 1.0.2 that was recently posted? For some > > reason, it always crashes with a SIGSEGV, and prints: > > > > SIGSEGV 11* segmentation violation > > sig 11, code 12 or 0xc, sc 0xefbfd710, addr 0x1c > > > > Full thread dump: > > > > ... and then it hangs here ... > > What is crashing? javac, java, or appletviewer?? On my system, everything > run just fine!! The only exception was the appletviewer, which crashed out > just like you mentioned unless it was running in 8bpp or 24bpp -- so when > I ran appletviewer on 32k colors, it dumped out.. I'm assuming this is > your problem. Also, I had to change the scripts a little to hardwire in > my CLASSPATH and substituted `arch` with i386. > > Otherwise, the JDK works great (I've been using it all weekend for a > course!) -- many thanks to the author! I would be col, however, if the > appletviewer would work in 16bpp --> then FreeBSD would be better than Sun > for java developemnt :-) > > cya, > -Mark All three programs are crashing, because all three point to the same program! (javac and appletviewer are shell scripts). I'm running in 8bpp color, also. I suspect this is a change that has been made recently to FreeBSD-current, otherwise I don't know how to explain it. Anyone else? -- Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:13:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15128 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15120 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:13:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.star-gate.com [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00679; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199610062213.PAA00679@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.9 8/22/96 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A heavy day for ftp.cdrom.com In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 06 Oct 1996 14:49:34 PDT." <199610062149.OAA12329@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 15:13:27 -0700 From: Amancio Hasty Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk So what does the traffic load looks like? Tnks Amancio >From The Desk Of "Jordan K. Hubbard" : > (Someone must have released something) > > jkh@wcarchive-> ftpcount > Service class mirror-ftpserv - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class mirror-freebsd - 0 users ( 20 maximum) > Service class mirror-linux - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class mirror-demos - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class mirror-os2 - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class local - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class remote - 0 users ( 10 maximum) > Service class anonymous - 1199 users (1200 maximum) > > jkh@wcarchive-> w > 2:48PM up 7:33, 4 users, load averages: 2.46, 2.09, 2.16 > > jkh@wcarchive-> ps ax | wc > 1383 10521 104782 > > And all with a load average of <3. Anyone who tells you that a FreeBSD > box just can't cut it under serious load simply doesn't know what they're > talking about.. :-) > > Interactive response is still excellent, BTW. > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 15:26:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA15976 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:26:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15939 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 15:26:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id XAA24140 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 23:25:35 +0100 Received: from "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/" by net-tel.co.uk (Route400-RFCGate); Sun, 6 Oct 96 23:23:28 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Sun, 6 Oct 96 23:23:28 +0100 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Sun, 6 Oct 96 22:23:26 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Sun, 6 Oct 96 22:23:26 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:25604-961006222326-6E17] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 6 Oct 96 22:23:26 +0000 X400-Content-Identifier: Advice wanted - Message-Id: <"6472-961006221906-328B*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=NET-TEL Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Advice wanted - how to drive ptys Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I have a terminal-server application that drives the master side of a bunch of ptys; in the current setup, the program on the slave side is always telnet. In my test setup, all works perfectly. However, when used for real it intermittently suffers a problem where the slave process apparently does not die when the pty master is closed. Normally this is harmless, only noticeable in that there can be several telnet processes belonging to one terminal which "can't happen". If enough of these build up (invariably when I am not on site to observe what happens) somthing goes wrong - probably running out of pty devices, or hitting the per-user process limit - and the whole thing stops working. Full details are below; any hints/suggestions would be welcome. Am I right in thinking that closing the master side of a pty is enough to clean up the slave side in normal circumstances? rlogind doesn't seem to do anything special. Regards, Andrew Gordon ------------------------------- The setup is a 486 with an interface to an obsolete/proprietary network (Acorn Econet) and a normal ethernet interface. At present it is doing nothing apart from running my terminal server application. The terminal server accepts incoming connections from terminals on Econet and connects them through ptys to copies of telnet, allowing them to login to shell accounts on another FreeBSD machine accessible over the ethernet. The server uses the forkpty() function from libutil to open the ptys, and then on the child side uses exect() to execute telnet with suitable arguments to connect immediately to the shell machine. The main loop of the server sits in select(), waiting on activity from the Econet or for any of the ptys to become readable/errored (or writable if there is data queued). Since the users are an aggressive lot (this is in a school), they may well terminate a session by pressing reset on their terminals rather than logging out properly. The protocol on the Econet side only allows a single session from each terminal to the server, and sends keep-alive packets once a minute, so there are a number of ways a session can be terminated: 1) Normal logout. The telnet process exits, causing the pty master to be returned from select as errored. The server then closes the pty master and sends a disconnect to the terminal. 2) Terminal does not respond to 'keep-alive' packet, or has remained in a flow-control blocked state for too long (probably because the terminal has been reset or powered off). The server simply closes the pty master and erases the connection from its tables. The telnet process sees its tty hangup, and exits. 3) A connect request arrives from a terminal which already has a connection active (probably due to the user pressing reset and immediately re-running the terminal software before the timeouts occur). The server closes the pty master relating to the old session, and opens a new one as for a normal new connection. The left-over telnets are almost always (according to "ps") idle in select, and can be killed manually. I have once seen one stuck in "IE" state on ps, though not recently. All the telnet processes (both the active ones and the unwanted ones) have distinct pty devices as their controlling ttys. I am fairly sure that the users are not subverting the telnet processes to run anything else on this machine - they could in principle type ^] to break out to the telnet prompt and get a shell, but I don't think they are doing this and in any case I can't think of anything they could do in a sub-shell that would lead to this. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 16:06:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id QAA18479 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:06:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br [143.106.13.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18471; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 16:06:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vazquez@localhost) by kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br (8.8.0/8.7.3/FreeBSD/2.1.5) id VAA12010; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:04:17 GMT From: Pedro A M Vazquez Message-Id: <199610062104.VAA12010@kalypso.iqm.unicamp.br> Subject: Re: HyperMail? (was Re: Interrupt lossage in FreeBSD-current. ) To: wosch@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 21:04:17 +0000 () Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, bde@zeta.org.au, garycorc@mail.idt.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Tor.Egge@idt.ntnu.no In-Reply-To: <199610062124.XAA02876@campa.panke.de> from "Wolfram Schneider" at Oct 6, 96 11:24:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Wolfram Schneider said: > > Amancio Hasty writes: > >Has anyone thought of archiving mail in html format with a tool > >similar to Hypermail?? > > > >Hypermail is a mail to html converter. > > I tried it and gave up. Hypermail is buggy and core'd > with large input (> 1000-3000 mails). > > Wolfram > Hello I also gave up on hypermail, it core dumps too for accented messages. I'm using MHonarc now, it is a perl package which does most of hypermail task and has a less restrictive license. You can find more about MHonarc at http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/mhonarc.html Pedro From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 17:50:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA22696 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fly.HiWAAY.net (root@fly.HiWAAY.net [204.214.4.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA22684 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bonsai.hiwaay.net by fly.HiWAAY.net; (8.7.5/1.1.8.2/21Sep95-1003PM) id TAA14511; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 19:49:17 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <32585381.1A9FB37F@hiwaay.net> Date: Sun, 06 Oct 1996 19:49:05 -0500 From: Steve Price X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (X11; I; FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT i386) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org CC: Bruce Evans Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/usr.bin/make main.c References: <199610061843.EAA01584@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hi all, I want to fix make's object directory rule, so that it works as expected by all concerned. Anybody have a feeling for the right thing to do? As Bruce points out not only is the current rule way to complicated, but the way it is implemented in make(1) now is wrong (at least according some standards). Please tell me the desired order and I will be happy to fix it. TIA, Steve From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 17:59:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA23194 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:59:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23175; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:59:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA13128; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:56:37 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199610070056.RAA13128@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: I plan to change random() for -current (was Re: rand() and random()) To: ache@nagual.ru (=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=) Date: Sun, 6 Oct 1996 17:56:37 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, current@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199610052204.CAA07197@nagual.ru> from "=?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?=" at Oct 6, 96 02:04:17 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > There is a historical dependence of much physics code on the > > repeatability of identical seeding for the linear congruential > > generator as a "randomness" base for repeatable Monte Carlo based > > testing of relativistically invariant P-P, N-P, and N-N pair production > > collisions. > > The fix _not_ breaks repeatability of identical seeding. Repeatability means identical results compared to historical values for the same interface. > > If you *do* change the random algorithms, then you should *leave the > > rand48() code along*. I can not stress this enough. You will damage > > repeatability of experiments for which source code is unavailable, and > > only the results remain. > > I don't understand your statement well, random() already have different > implementations in different OSes. If you mean that previous FreeBSD > dynamic-linked binaries can produce different results, yes, it is > any upgrade cost. Make static binaries if source code is unavailable. Random is not random. Random is pseudo-random. I think what is being forgotton is that pseudo-randomness is useful because of its repeatability in many, many circumstances. > Depending on predictable system function results which claimed to > be 'random' is bad idea in general (and mans/docs/standards > not declare such possibility too). They only say that "this function > [not all possible versions of this function] > gives the same sequence for the same seed". Real practice when > rand() and random() functions changes between different OSes > and inside one OS too confirms it. I remember that Unix v6 rand() > was different with what we have currently, so we must return > to Unix v6 variant according to your logic. The code in question is from the Berkeley Physics package, in FORTRAN, for generation of relativitically invariant pair production events. I would be happy if you would keep BSD compatability, since BSD UNIX is where the code was written to run. The point is not repeatability, per se. It is that the event stream will be identical for a given set of N events for a given physics. The intent of doing this is to ensure that there is no statistical variance introduced by the period of the generator. The particular code in question uses the 48 bit linear congruential method. However, it is reasonable to presume that similar code exists for any given interface dependency. The point is that in 15 years, I can rerun the same event set with a different physics, and get the same event data which I then use the physics I am testing to constrain allowable events. It is statistically *important* to know how many events, out of 100 million events, are disallowed by a given constraint. As an example, a recent run of the code with a set of "Dion" physics constraints checked some laboratory experiments dealing with identifying the energy range of the carrier of the weak force to three decimal places. This gives the theoretical model a very high probability of being a correct model (as it happens, the same model predicted the W particle more than 8 years before it was experimentally discovered). For any pseudo-random generator, code is equally likely to depend on the "pseudo" as it is to depend on the "random". Any change to either bears a great deal of consideration. I personally have optics code that depends on the pseudo-randomness of the generator to create point origin vectors for testing theoretical chromatic aberration, and correcting aberration in real optical systems with CCD collectors. Among other things, it's used to remove aberration effects from the lens correction package when processing raw Hubble telescope data to look for extrasolar planets. In point of fact, you are suggesting "correcting" a "problem" because you want a different (not better) random distribution than what you currently get. I respectfully suggest that you should consider packing around your own random number generator with the code that needs the different distribution, rather than munging the existing code. Historical behaviour of pseudo-random library services is a topic requiring a *lot* of care before changes are introduced. I really haven't seen what I would consider enough thought or discussion to merit a change. As always: my opinions. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Oct 6 18:13:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id SAA23846 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:13:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA23841 for ; Sun, 6 Oct 1996 18:13:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA28805; Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:42:41 +0930 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199610070112.KAA28805@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: su problem To: roberte@mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de (Robert Eckardt) Date: Mon, 7 Oct 1996 10:42:40 +0930 (CST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199610062115.XAA01101@ghost.mep.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> from "Robert Eckardt" at Oct 6, 96 11:15:15 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Robert Eckardt stands accused of saying: > > > > su -l hasty > > > > > > it gets a core dump... > > > > Analyze it. That's what coredumps are for. > > > > Are you sure that it's not actually > > > > su -l hasty -c "" > > It would be nice if this would work. > I was searching for that feature since the time I changed > from SysVr3.2 to FreeBSD. (And it's not in the manpage.) > > Is the missing ability to execute commands like sh BSD-specific > or a security precaution ? It's not missing. We do a bunch of : if [ -x