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Date:      Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:22:42 +0300
From:      Yuri Pankov <>
To:        Don Wilde <>, Polytropon <>
Cc:        FreeBSD Mailing List <>,
Subject:   Re: URGENT: Microsoft overwrites boot loader!
Message-ID:  <>
In-Reply-To: <>
References:  <> <> <>

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Don Wilde wrote:
> On 7/16/20 11:53 PM, Polytropon wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:19:51 -0700, Don Wilde wrote:
>>> The [deleted] ones in Redmond have done it again. My multi-OS GRUB2 boot
>>> loader is gone, and in its place is a 500M partition called 'Windows
>>> boot loader'.
>> They do this all the time. The consensus here is to install
>> "Windows" first, always, restricted to the designated disk
>> space, and _then_ install Linux, FreeBSD, GRUB, or anything
>> else non-"Windows", in order to avoid the exact problem you
>> are describing. Even older versions of "Windows" were known
>> to destroy things like the FreeBSD boot manager when they
>> are installed as a 2nd choice. MICROS~1 always wants you to
>> treat it first class, with golden feet and glockenspiel.
>> However, is my interpretation correct? Did this happen when
>> you _installed_ "Windows" on that machine for the first time,
>> or did it happen after you _booted_ an already installed
>> instance of "Windows", which then did attack "foreign data"
>> on the disk?
> This machine still maintains the original Windows installation, first 
> with W7, and then (finally, bad mistake) upgraded to W10.
>>> The purpose is to force us to look at MS' new version of Edge. All my
>>> old boot files are gone.
>> Something like that should never happen. It's absolutely
>> normal that "Windows" installs software without user consent,
>> and then presents it prominently in user-configured areas
>> such as the desktop, the "Start" menu, or the bottom bar
>> (pun absolutely intended), but it should never exceed its
>> authority beyong the border of the "Windows" partition,
>> which clearly means: "Hands off of Grub partition!"
> Yes. The bastards also screwed up my 128GB backup drive -- again without 
> asking -- when I left it plugged in during a Doze boot.

Y'all must have the special edition of Win10 handed as a punishment to 
those who likes to hijack questions@ (and now stable@) with "the grass 
was greener" threads :-) I have never seen it do anything with removable 
media I have attached, be it FreeBSD, illumos installation usb sticks or 
hard drives, or simply some data disks.

>> Especially with "Windows 10", the PC is no longer a PC,
>> not a _personal_ computer belonging to the user; it's rather
>> a system remotely controlled by MICROS~1, and having installed
>> "Windows" and therefore agreed to the terms of usage (EULA),
>> there is probably nothing "wrong" with it, because you have
>> agreed that they can do whatever they want, and if something
>> goes wrong, it's your fault. Legal business as usual.
> Yes, agreed. They far outstrip the robber barons of the 1800s in their 
> greed. Even Carnegie finally discovered a heart beating inside of 
> himself, and gave us libraries and Napoleon Hill!
>> Many years (or let's say, decades) I had a similar problem
>> with an OS/2 installation: It messed up the system's partition
>> table, a system where DOS (not that DOS, the other one) was
>> installed, and there was a data loss: Partition D: became C:,
>> E: became D:, F: became E:, and C: along with its content
>> seemed to be gone. But in the overall "disk space calculation"
>> it must still have been on disk, so I used the Norton Disk Editor
>> (DISKEDIT.EXE from Norton Utilities, a great product at that
>> time!), a handheld calculator and pen & paper to re-calculate
>> the correct values for the partition table, entered them,
>> rebooted, prayed unto the holy bringer of peace, Alpha-Omega,
>> and tadaa, C: was there again, with the correct content.
> I never had that wonderful luxury of being saddled with a "real" IBM 
> machine or OS/2. One would note that they, too (along with MS, 
> eventually), are being relegated to the dustbin of history where they 
> belong.
> [snip]
>>> That's the last time I will allow this, and I'm calling those [deleted]s
>>> tomorrow to give them a piece of my mind. After that I will erase every
>>> vestige of that obscene OS from my disk.
>> They don't mind. They already have your money. And maybe they
>> even have your name, address, phone number, credit card number
>> or other banking information...
> I have a few last resort technologies they *don't* know about, though 
> they are not worth any more of my time or psychic energy. :D

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