From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jul 17 11:22:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 088B3361A46; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:22:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuripv@yuripv.dev) Received: from new3-smtp.messagingengine.com (new3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B7THp4CCyz3gJ4; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:22:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yuripv@yuripv.dev) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.internal [10.202.2.42]) by mailnew.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8018C5800D9; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:22:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:22:45 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yuripv.dev; h= subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm1; bh=d XqBLJxQGt3LSBsTNjyCRS3FwbY8py83RWIVI9t0CbM=; b=ewwsWqtij3jf4ZzNM tzxU+Rxc0q2aB3maJjVLGWad9/Rp5ZFwzKCB5LcNWeNiMJ70NcR4nzCWEUGHqrgG u2nRJ9cVlAkcpy0IDrIPF/eGRhmGReF0+N3OErZaoa7Rr1S5Y/PWp435+ZiVQZDC HZkXONtM0tNdEvkMlcaH/Ha2GLLU8joUelVcsHS9Gac0V18DtnJ/YqCTKj0SLRzS 9kbSz3kwa58GYPFp8/4yj+GmJ2H4WT+K1SSzOuKbhDhTdyZn3ilUqZKAp8RUq/Ag td3IVHRhbKCI4CZop2AOiWJaPh9gHgm8fq0U0YRHatiELqJcOvm/5Vats82NUDGW 8caIg== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm3; bh=dXqBLJxQGt3LSBsTNjyCRS3FwbY8py83RWIVI9t0C bM=; b=nFNXM+9NGU4F/C+ngeAbbjIgGlaLLHVoNROYRwma5dsOfDDzkGwmAQ8uc evDFupVDLAMBhZq4BJw/rwseEd4svE9/IrxkJsHQlqox/pbf+vZDFnVqKte1czti znfiIawlZMx3lzr62BCTczLq8Y2/omFH6EEcBNAFaT5A1Abr24MAXDttU/YpmsWo j/O72EMWZfe36YsseSaKzVMvBpkNXY49G17ZoalxhrB14QcPCHxkZ70+pnHYxBRS ZrPAM2gnBQWS+ACa1hI20OqGwIGKkEE16uwaqKA1Y4AtCbKAPFl7sT6evmCeqbup /EeXUPm46dGnP6TB7zB3Dhz1zoHzw== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduiedrfeeigdefkecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefuvfhfhffkffgfgggjtgfgsehtjeertddtfeejnecuhfhrohhmpegjuhhrihcu rfgrnhhkohhvuceohihurhhiphhvseihuhhrihhpvhdruggvvheqnecuggftrfgrthhtvg hrnhepffehvdekgeeijeevledvfffgveeuvefggfejhfelueeuveetvddvvdfgieetffet necukfhppeeluddrvdegtddruddvgedrudefjeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtne curfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpeihuhhrihhpvheshihurhhiphhvrdguvghv X-ME-Proxy: Received: from [192.168.1.6] (unknown [91.240.124.137]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 1EC81306005F; Fri, 17 Jul 2020 07:22:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: URGENT: Microsoft overwrites boot loader! To: Don Wilde , Polytropon Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List , freebsd-stable@freebsd.org References: <140a6398-f8ad-ecd6-2a6f-5ca28f570a64@gmail.com> <20200717085305.ffd5191c.freebsd@edvax.de> <8158aa31-493c-d316-9dbe-fcf35f569baf@gmail.com> From: Yuri Pankov Message-ID: <49db33f8-3d2d-d8e4-80e8-8226d5a8b717@yuripv.dev> Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 14:22:42 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.10.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8158aa31-493c-d316-9dbe-fcf35f569baf@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4B7THp4CCyz3gJ4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=yuripv.dev header.s=fm1 header.b=ewwsWqti; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm3 header.b=nFNXM+9N; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of yuripv@yuripv.dev designates 66.111.4.229 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=yuripv@yuripv.dev X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yuripv.dev:s=fm1,messagingengine.com:s=fm3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.009]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:66.111.4.229]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[yuripv.dev]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.009]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yuripv.dev:+,messagingengine.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.981]; SUBJECT_ENDS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com,edvax.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.229:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.229:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2020 11:22:48 -0000 Don Wilde wrote: > > On 7/16/20 11:53 PM, Polytropon wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Jul 2020 13:19:51 -0700, Don Wilde wrote: >>> The [deleted] ones in Redmond have done it again. My multi-OS GRUB2 boot >>> loader is gone, and in its place is a 500M partition called 'Windows >>> boot loader'. >> They do this all the time. The consensus here is to install >> "Windows" first, always, restricted to the designated disk >> space, and _then_ install Linux, FreeBSD, GRUB, or anything >> else non-"Windows", in order to avoid the exact problem you >> are describing. Even older versions of "Windows" were known >> to destroy things like the FreeBSD boot manager when they >> are installed as a 2nd choice. MICROS~1 always wants you to >> treat it first class, with golden feet and glockenspiel. >> >> However, is my interpretation correct? Did this happen when >> you _installed_ "Windows" on that machine for the first time, >> or did it happen after you _booted_ an already installed >> instance of "Windows", which then did attack "foreign data" >> on the disk? > This machine still maintains the original Windows installation, first > with W7, and then (finally, bad mistake) upgraded to W10. >>> The purpose is to force us to look at MS' new version of Edge. All my >>> old boot files are gone. >> Something like that should never happen. It's absolutely >> normal that "Windows" installs software without user consent, >> and then presents it prominently in user-configured areas >> such as the desktop, the "Start" menu, or the bottom bar >> (pun absolutely intended), but it should never exceed its >> authority beyong the border of the "Windows" partition, >> which clearly means: "Hands off of Grub partition!" > > Yes. The bastards also screwed up my 128GB backup drive -- again without > asking -- when I left it plugged in during a Doze boot. Y'all must have the special edition of Win10 handed as a punishment to those who likes to hijack questions@ (and now stable@) with "the grass was greener" threads :-) I have never seen it do anything with removable media I have attached, be it FreeBSD, illumos installation usb sticks or hard drives, or simply some data disks. >> >> Especially with "Windows 10", the PC is no longer a PC, >> not a _personal_ computer belonging to the user; it's rather >> a system remotely controlled by MICROS~1, and having installed >> "Windows" and therefore agreed to the terms of usage (EULA), >> there is probably nothing "wrong" with it, because you have >> agreed that they can do whatever they want, and if something >> goes wrong, it's your fault. Legal business as usual. > Yes, agreed. They far outstrip the robber barons of the 1800s in their > greed. Even Carnegie finally discovered a heart beating inside of > himself, and gave us libraries and Napoleon Hill! >> >> Many years (or let's say, decades) I had a similar problem >> with an OS/2 installation: It messed up the system's partition >> table, a system where DOS (not that DOS, the other one) was >> installed, and there was a data loss: Partition D: became C:, >> E: became D:, F: became E:, and C: along with its content >> seemed to be gone. But in the overall "disk space calculation" >> it must still have been on disk, so I used the Norton Disk Editor >> (DISKEDIT.EXE from Norton Utilities, a great product at that >> time!), a handheld calculator and pen & paper to re-calculate >> the correct values for the partition table, entered them, >> rebooted, prayed unto the holy bringer of peace, Alpha-Omega, >> and tadaa, C: was there again, with the correct content. > > I never had that wonderful luxury of being saddled with a "real" IBM > machine or OS/2. One would note that they, too (along with MS, > eventually), are being relegated to the dustbin of history where they > belong. > > [snip] > >>> That's the last time I will allow this, and I'm calling those [deleted]s >>> tomorrow to give them a piece of my mind. After that I will erase every >>> vestige of that obscene OS from my disk. >> They don't mind. They already have your money. And maybe they >> even have your name, address, phone number, credit card number >> or other banking information... > I have a few last resort technologies they *don't* know about, though > they are not worth any more of my time or psychic energy. :D >