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Date:      Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:07:27 -0600
From:      Nate Williams <nate@mt.sri.com>
To:        "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
Cc:        nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), gary@eyelab.psy.msu.edu (Gary Schrock), current@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: On hub.freebsd.org refusing to talk to dialups
Message-ID:  <199909241907.NAA28321@mt.sri.com>
In-Reply-To: <199909241847.LAA03621@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
References:  <199909241745.LAA27853@mt.sri.com> <199909241847.LAA03621@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>

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> > I agree.
> > 
> > > Your work also has a serious security concern if it allows this you to
> > > directly attatch to it's port 25.
> > 
> > No it doesn't, but you do bring up another good point why not to use the
> > ISP's mail server.  Security.  I don't want email to bounce on your box
> > and potentially give the ISP's postmaster information they shouldn't be
> > having.  (Including email about us switching ISP's because we hate their
> > email policy. :)
> 
> If your mail is sensitive use a proper transport, encrypt it.

All mail is senstive, it just that sometimes that the cost of encrypting
is more expensive than the cost of setting everyone up so they can
decrypt it.  In short, there is no 'portable' way of
encrypting/decrypting mail.

> > Yes, our ISP *could* sniff packets are read our email if they wanted,
> > but it would be a breach of contract for them to do so.
> 
> No, it would not.

*YES*, it would.  Don't tell me what my ISP can/can not do, because you
have no idea.

> > Basically, I think not allowing ISP's to allow the Dialup lines to
> > forward email as a good thing, but for them to limit was businesses do
> > with their IP traffic is simply too big brother'ish, no matter what
> > their contract states.
> 
> If _we_ don't start to do something about it, big brother _is_ going
> to do something about it.

Now you're going off the deep-end.  Big-brother has shown that they
simply don't *care* what happens, to the point that SPAM is still
legal to do in almost all cases, and people must opt-out of it.

> They also have great benifits by agreeing to our standard AUP, they
> have RBL filtering done, etc, etc, etc.  This is the _service_ part
> of ISP that every one else leaves out.

As I stated before, any decent ISP will take the time to help a client
setup services they desire, not do it for them.  Doing it for a customer
WHO WANTS TO DO IT THEMSELVES is the unix way.  We're doing it, because
you're too stupid/clueless to do it yourself, and we're not going to
give out the 'secret' information.

If the customer doesn't want to host it themselves, then by all means
have the ability to do it for them, and you can charge them for it
even. :)

But, just because you think you are an ISP doesn't make you any more
expert than people running their own businesses off it.



Nate


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