From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Feb 14 19:36:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 727A623F9A0 for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 19:36:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl) Received: from mailout4.ceti.pl (mailout6.ceti.pl [62.121.128.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48K3Xq0wFWz45ZG for ; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 19:36:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl) Received: from tau1.ceti.pl (tau.ceti.pl [62.121.128.11]) by mailout4.ceti.pl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D1193781300; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:36:35 +0100 (CET) Received: by tau1.ceti.pl (Postfix, from userid 3727) id 25620960AB8; Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:36:35 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 20:36:35 +0100 From: Tomasz Rola To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Steven Malone Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200214193634.GA20932@tau1.ceti.pl> References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.21 (2010-09-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48K3Xq0wFWz45ZG X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl has no SPF policy when checking 62.121.128.46) smtp.mailfrom=rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.89 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[ceti.pl]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.63)[0.628,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.88)[0.879,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[rtomek@ceti.pl,rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15541, ipnet:62.121.128.0/20, country:PL]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[rtomek@ceti.pl,rtomek@tau1.ceti.pl]; IP_SCORE(0.19)[ipnet: 62.121.128.0/20(0.48), asn: 15541(0.39), country: PL(0.06)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2020 19:36:44 -0000 On Fri, Feb 14, 2020 at 09:19:50AM -0600, Steven Malone wrote: > Victor, > > While this may not be a technical response, I have had immensely better > experiences managing a FreeBSD server than a Linux one. The primary > difference in my experience has been around system upgrades. When > updating Linux I have had all sorts of applications start failing after > the a simple package update. I do not have this problem when updating > FreeBSD, it has been much more reliable for me. I have also seen similar > results from system upgrades, Linux upgrades have broken my system > countless times. I have never had a FreeBSD system completely tank after > an upgrade. I think when depicting flaws of Linux (innumerable, as with anything made by humans) you guys should be a bit more specific. There are few so called "flavours" of it, and the quality differs somehow between them. I have heard such things as above happened to somebody using Ubuntu in the past. And Ubuntu is derived from Debian. On the other hand, I spent time since 1997 using Debian exclusively and I do not recall having a catastrophic mess after upgrade. Usually, there was a difference between a process called update (say, 6.5->6.6, bugs repelled, programs stay in their old versions and behaviours) and upgrade (6.6->7.0, major version change, everything jumps forward in time to be mostly same programs that the rest of the world uses). The mess usually happened after upgrade, but the system always booted and I could iron out dark corners of old config files, which usually was enough to have it all going again. Nevertheless, I have learnt to have a bootable copy of unupgraded system on spare partition, just in case before I start doing upgrade - and indeed, sometimes I spent a week or two booting from one to the other. Not very often and the problems were multimedia related. However, I am not current with Debian experience anymore. When systemd moved in I decided to move out and stopped doing upgrades (I rely on manual upgrades right now, quite a fun). The final jump to alternative non Linux system has got huge delays, unfortunately. But I have already had bad thoughts even before this, when after one upgrade I had to spend a day hunting down strange, misbehaving daemons and nailing them in their coffins [1]. So systemd was just a straw that broke horse's back, not something ugly enough to make me run (but still ugly). I know there are plenty of people who consider s-d to be a huge step forward for humanity, so why not let them have it? I also know there are still some Linux flavours which do not use s-d but I expect them to disappear (I wish them good luck but the glacier cannot be disputed with). Anyway, you can now argue there are people who would rather use old Linux and slowly go into *BSD than use new Linux (which most probably is just fine, and I simply show signs of getting old and prejudiced against all those new kids who know better and want to "throw away Unix way", except that I expect to read yet another "systemd blowed me" kind of article in a future). Oh, and let's hope this post is not read as a flame bait :) [1] I can be called nuts, but there are just few things that drive me up the wall. One such thing is when bloody-something keeps writing to the disc every five seconds, and another when a bloody web browser is supposed to be idle but instead keeps cpu at 100% and keeps writing to the disc. I get literally crazy and obsessed upon seeing such case. -- Regards, Tomasz Rola -- ** A C programmer asked whether computer had Buddha's nature. ** ** As the answer, master did "rm -rif" on the programmer's home ** ** directory. And then the C programmer became enlightened... ** ** ** ** Tomasz Rola mailto:tomasz_rola@bigfoot.com **