From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Mon Apr 29 12:12:49 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B705F158AD69; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:12:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.blih.net", Issuer "mail.blih.net" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E2BC74999; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:12:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from manu@bidouilliste.com) Received: from mail.blih.net (mail.blih.net [212.83.177.182]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTP id 87105727; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:12:40 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=mail; bh=Ms5XXVorARtlOGUgvbKshdkOgo8=; b=V+JgettZt96XaRWjvJhsyyRzWvlD 7skvprZYj3ZfcbeGVWktzytAYg8KBd7jgnruNjnWkee85fZ1yd0YlDwuEHtiSHxv 4OeeMbBHEl1kCivSHZgY73Jl+KaY6NF5AenaxAuDXCWTGHci9rDkgOlUCp3b5c0v fVd/bs0WPMFG3xo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=bidouilliste.com; h=date :from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; q=dns; s= mail; b=fLgukhsrzDainCJvVhz22KowORFQow/wQuiVQ11LCCN7X0T2vuVwDRQc iUZgVYCFdZKKUx4jcjx2rwtoznm7DkhA9IoVMVoIEnT7QIIpNLWer4Mb+XXU34o2 4iuQsnJIA9Dol0Uksx7Va8zdaBu4NJ10mDBd4vktUSCjyx5GWaU= Received: from knuckles.blih.net (ip-9.net-89-3-105.rev.numericable.fr [89.3.105.9]) by mail.blih.net (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id 024e27e4 TLS version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO; Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:12:40 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 14:12:39 +0200 From: Emmanuel Vadot To: Cc: , , , , , Subject: Re: CFT: FreeBSD Package Base Message-Id: <20190429141239.f9de62f6b6721112d7143cf6@bidouilliste.com> In-Reply-To: <002901d4fdfb$e52eb890$af8c29b0$@ixsystems.com> References: <002901d4fdfb$e52eb890$af8c29b0$@ixsystems.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 7E2BC74999 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bidouilliste.com header.s=mail header.b=V+JgettZ; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of manu@bidouilliste.com designates 212.83.177.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=manu@bidouilliste.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.41 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bidouilliste.com:s=mail]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.56)[-0.561,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:212.83.177.182/32]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bidouilliste.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.05)[-0.054,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bidouilliste.com:+]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[mx-backup.blih.net,mail.blih.net]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.947,0]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; IP_SCORE(0.38)[ip: (-0.89), ipnet: 212.83.160.0/19(2.97), asn: 12876(-0.17), country: FR(-0.01)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:12876, ipnet:212.83.160.0/19, country:FR]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2019 12:12:50 -0000 Hi Kris, On Sun, 28 Apr 2019 15:52:21 -0400 wrote: > FreeBSD Community, > > > > I'm pleased to announce a CFT for builds of FreeBSD 12-stable and 13-current > using "TrueOS-inspired" packaged base. These are stock FreeBSD images which > will allow users to perform all updating via the 'pkg' command directly. > Rather than trying to answer all questions in this announcement, we've > created a FAQ page with more details. Please refer to this page, and let us > know if you have additional questions that we can include on that page going > forward. > While I appreciate the effort I have some doubt about your "re-implementation" of pkgbase. I don't see any improvement compared to what is in base currently, I even see downside of your implementation. - How do you plan with the need of updating kernel first, reboot and updating the rest of the userland after ? (Needed for major and minor upgrade, 12.0 to 12.1 for example, and simple update in -STABLE and -HEAD branch). This is still a problem with the base pkgbase. - This is even worse because you are using the same repository for base and pkg so if a user pkg update and both kernel and pkg(8) needs to be updated and pkg use a new syscall or capsicum thing it will be updated first and couldn't proceed with the rest of the update (this is a supposition, I haven't personally tested). - It seems that multiple kernels isn't supported in your implementation, this is already supported in pkgbase but still need some love. This is an important point as it will allow user to choose easily the kernel that they want to use and will also allow us developper to push kernels with new features to help testing. - Since you reduced the granularity on the userland bits it would mean that if we use your implementation for -p updates we would download the whole userland packages instead of just updating the package that was patched. For example with pkgbase, updating from 12.0 to 12.0p1 will only update the FreeBSD-runtime package. Yes this package is still big to download when you compare to what have changed but until pkg(8) have delta pkg supports (and if it will have support, I don't know if this is a wish or not) this is the best way to go. - I see that you are sorting the plist for kernel and userland based on the line length [1], why is that ? I think that the only advantage that your solution offers is that if we remove a componant of base (rcmds for example in 12-CURRENT) those files would be removed as they are in the userland-base package while for pkgbase the FreeBSD-rcmd package will be deleted in the repo and will not be deleted in the user computer. > > Additionally, I will be hosting a Package Base working group at BSDCan 2019, > and welcome user and developer attendance to discuss this and other ongoing > package work: > > > > https://wiki.freebsd.org/DevSummit/201905/PackageBase > I will be present and looking forward to work with you on this. Cheers, P.S. : FYI I'm working on pkgbase currently and I will have some patches to commit soon (bsdinstall support, memstick creation that install a pkgbase aware installaton etc ...). [1] : https://github.com/trueos/trueos-ports/blob/trueos-master/os/userland-base/Makefile#L35 -- Emmanuel Vadot