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Date:      Wed, 31 Dec 2008 15:00:33 +0100
From:      Alexander Leidinger <Alexander@Leidinger.net>
To:        Roman Divacky <rdivacky@freebsd.org>
Cc:        src-committers@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, Alfred Perlstein <alfred@freebsd.org>, svn-src-head@freebsd.org, Garrett Cooper <yanefbsd@gmail.com>, Ken Smith <kensmith@cse.buffalo.edu>, Ken Smith <kensmith@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r185982 - head/usr.sbin/sysinstall
Message-ID:  <20081231150033.15001evgwyizs6jo@webmail.leidinger.net>
In-Reply-To: <20081227092736.GA25457@freebsd.org>
References:  <200812121158.mBCBwRPT096820@svn.freebsd.org> <20081226234619.GT18389@elvis.mu.org> <1230336804.25666.11.camel@bauer.cse.buffalo.edu> <20081227011017.GW18389@elvis.mu.org> <7d6fde3d0812261746g66d19d2clf646333cf9da5559@mail.gmail.com> <20081227092736.GA25457@freebsd.org>

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Quoting Roman Divacky <rdivacky@freebsd.org> (from Sat, 27 Dec 2008 =20
10:27:36 +0100):

> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 05:46:12PM -0800, Garrett Cooper wrote:
>> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 5:10 PM, Alfred Perlstein =20
>> <alfred@freebsd.org> wrote:
>> > * Ken Smith <kensmith@cse.Buffalo.EDU> [081226 16:13] wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 2008-12-26 at 15:46 -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote:
>> >> > Does this mean that the user has to find the "Linux" package in the
>> >> > "add packages" area now?  If so, that seems a bit complicated to
>> >> > get started.  There's a LOT of packages.  Pardon if I'm =20
>> missing something
>> >> > obvious here.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, sort of.

I would say: not really. All linux ports are supposed to depend upon =20
the right infrastructure ports. So just installing an end-user linux =20
port (a.g. acroread) should pull in all the necessary stuff. I don't =20
see a huge need to special case "the linux package" (=3D linux_base-fc4 =20
ATM, at least form my point of view as one of the two persons taking =20
care about the linuxulator infrastructure in the ports collection).

>> >> I've asked portmgr@ to help with setting things up so we've got a coup=
le
>> >> of new meta packages that help users set up a usable workstation
>> >> relatively painlessly.  They've said we can work together with the Gno=
me
>> >> and KDE folks to try and get that set up.  I'm not sure at this point =
if
>> >> Linux emulation will be part of that or not, we haven't gotten quite
>> >> that far yet.  And we'll do something to make those meta-packages
>> >> relatively easy to find.  For example without something along those
>> >> lines a user may just select the "gnome2" metapackage thinking they'll
>> >> get a usable workstation but at least as of the last time I did
>> >> something like that you don't quite wind up with a usable workstation
>> >> (xorg-server is missing for example :-/).
>> >>
>> >> That said this has sort of been threatened for quite a while now, and
>> >> having sysinstall not care about any packages before it hits what is
>> >> currently its "Do you want to browse all the packages" section is need=
ed
>> >> if we're talking about not including pre-built packages with the relea=
se
>> >> itself and that sort of thing.  We're just setting it up so all packag=
es
>> >> get treated as packages instead of some being intertwined in earlier
>> >> phases of sysinstall.
>> >
>> > OK, that makes sense.  Please track it though, it would be bad to wind =
up
>> > "hiding" Linux compat from users under a huge package selection.

I think it would be better if people would go into more detail if they =20
talk about kldloading the linux module, or if they talk about =20
installing the linuxulator-userland-infrastructure (linux_base-XXX, =20
linux-x11-libs, ...).

>>     Yes, but it'd be nicer for linux compatibility to point to actual
>> working linux emulators instead of long-defunct packages (the Redhat
>> emulation package -- bleh).
>>     I'm all for improving the linux compat layer packaging -- thanks Ken!

You should come over to emulation@, there's a major part of the linux =20
infrastructure ports work explained in the archives. Unfortunately I =20
haven't seen any message from Ken there regarding the issues he sees =20
with linux stuff.

> we've switched to 2.6 emulation on default in -current so we are able to
> use newer fedora distro. the problem here is that there is no release
> freebsd with default 2.6 emulation, hence the default port stays at fc4
>
> that's going to change

To add a little bit on this:

An update to add more recent fedora bits is waiting for the ports =20
slush to be over. When those bits have hit the tree, we can have a =20
look how to pick a more recent fedora release for systems where the =20
2.6.16 emulation is enabled or on by default. Nothing is set in stone =20
there as there's nothing in the ports tree to experiment with.

BTW: Roman implicitly told above, that FC4 is the last Fedora release =20
which is able to work with our linux 2.4 emulation which we have in =20
all our releases. 8.0 will be the first release with 2.6.16 emulation =20
by default. AFAIK the *at() functions are not MFCed (and probably some =20
other important stuff), so apart from the POLA reason to not change =20
the default on a -stable branch, we also have a technical reason to =20
not enable 2.6.16 on 7-stable.

Bye,
Alexander.

--=20
Gilbert's Discovery:
=09Any attempt to use the new super glues results in the two pieces
=09sticking to your thumb and index finger rather than to each other.

http://www.Leidinger.net    Alexander @ Leidinger.net: PGP ID =3D B0063FE7
http://www.FreeBSD.org       netchild @ FreeBSD.org  : PGP ID =3D 72077137



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