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Date:      Wed, 13 May 2020 11:05:21 -0500
From:      Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
To:        Greg Veldman <freebsd@gregv.net>
Cc:        freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: mailman 3 on FreeBSD- or mailman replacement?
Message-ID:  <99191477-270b-3c3d-1c15-e762222cf498@kicp.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20200513155844.GA1068@aurora.gregv.net>
References:  <17e9d3c4-2cab-922c-c3d8-1ebef0073556@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200513155844.GA1068@aurora.gregv.net>

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On 5/13/20 10:58 AM, Greg Veldman wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2020 at 09:48:38AM -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I'm sure I'm not the only one who runs mailman on FreeBSD servers. Now
>> that python 2.7 is about to go, mailman 2 will follow. There is mailman
>> 3 that is based on python 3. There is, however, no mailman 3 port. I
>> wonder if someone already asked mailman port maintainer about mailman 3.
>> I do not like to bother busy person(s) if someone already did.
> 
> I was typing a reply to this when I saw Matthew's note come in,
> I can't add anything to what he said so I won't try. ;-)
> 
>> I kept repeating to people I work for who start using python as
>> significant part of their work environment: Python is a sneaky snake.
>> Namely, python paces fast with changing internals version to version
>> (meaning minor versions here, not only major one). Thus, variety of
>> modules one starts using have to keep up, but some may lag behind, then
>> one may get stuck to older version of something, forcing older version
>> of everything. Not to mention this whole thing being update nightmare.
> 
> One could say the same thing of virtually any software written
> in virtually any language.
> 
> See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_rot.  It's a real
> thing.
> 
> Though to be fair to Python, I also run several sites based on
> the Django web framework, including some that are fairly complex,
> utilize a lot of packages for Django, and have significant local
> development efforts invested.  In the Python3 line, I've not yet
> had a version upgrade that was anything more than a drop-in
> replacement.  The major issue between Python2 and Python3 is
> they changed the way strings are represented internally, and it
> turns out that's a fairly important change for a software package
> that processes email messages all day...
> 
>> This all leads me to my second question: maybe it is time to replace
>> mailman with some other maillist suite. If someone already made this
>> decision, could you share the reasons, and your new choice:
> 
> I said this in the other thread the Matthew mentioned, but if
> I had to switch off of Mailman to something else, in my mind
> Sympa looks like the best option currently available, based on
> my own personal criteria (which I won't get into here).
> 

Thank you, Greg. I will do my reading on sympa. Then, maybe will ask 
some questions some place sympa experts are likely to be (here will be 
first choice ;-)

Valeri

-- 
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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