Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2019 20:35:25 +0100 From: Polytropon <freebsd@edvax.de> To: Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Wireless interface Message-ID: <20190127203525.0d7cf203.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <ca52dc16-1f7b-7397-2106-76a22bf8579a@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <CAPu-kW-0u=Eoj8NtASnD_WDnsosj_WcTEh=Zhby1DnBV3d2rdg@mail.gmail.com> <MWHPR04MB04954E8E691D98C40B68607780940@MWHPR04MB0495.namprd04.prod.outlook.com> <ca52dc16-1f7b-7397-2106-76a22bf8579a@kicp.uchicago.edu>
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 13:23:22 -0600, Valeri Galtsev wrote:
>
>
> On 1/26/19 12:50 PM, Carmel NY wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Jan 2019 09:54:05 -0600, Rob Belics stated:
> >
> >>> It is situations like this that make me love
> >>> Microsoft. Connecting a wireless network should not require user
> >>> intervention other than choosing the network and entering the
> >>> password.
> >>
> >> FreeBSD is not a consumer operating system. It's not designed to hand
> >> hold anyone. That is why Windows is such a huge monstrosity of an
> >> install.
> >
> > I just finished a fresh install of Windows 10. If you take the time
> > involved in installing a basic MS Windows system vs. a basic FreeBSD
> > system, Windows will usually win. A big plus is that Windows actually
> > can get a wireless system up and running by itself, sans perhaps
> > supplying the password. Does FreeBSD even support using the WPS Button
> > on the Wi-Fi Router? Plus, you then have to install a GUI. Now, if you
> > want to compare a FreeBSD system sans GUI, you have to compare it
> > against a MS Server, not the regular Windows version design for home or
> > office users.
> >
> > This is not about "hand-holding"; it is about bring the OS into the
> > modern age. My machine is supposed to be my slave, not the other way
> > around.
>
> Just a small comment on neither side, hopefully.
>
> As one clever man said, you will pay, one way or another. With MS
> Windows system you will pay money for using it. You will also pay money
> for using 3rd party software - antivirus. MS is the only system vendor I
> know of who explicitly tells you it is not safe to use their system
> without 3rd party software (antivirus).
This is interesting.
Established security research has shown and proven (!) that
especially virus software (it's hard to call them "antivirus"
today) is in fact increasing the attack surface of a "Windows"
system. Common suggestions are to stay with the software
provided by "Windows" itself and _not_ install additional
and interfering virus software - or has this changed again?
So or so, you pay with time and/or money. Buying virus software
seems to be futile, as the one you already paid for (as it
comes with "Windows") isn't any worse or better than what
you can add by investing additional money.
> With FreeBSD you will pay with your time. You will need some effort
> requiring some learning to install system, software, and make all work.
You will also need to invest time into learning "Windows",
either if you haven't been exposed to it before, or because
you need to unlearn what you knew from previous "Windows"
vesions (things that are very different now) or from different
GUI-based systems (such as Linux with an IDE).
> You will need some effort to plan ahead before purchasing your machine
> to avid really ugly hardware (Broadcom BCM43xx is example of really ugly
> one, search about its design; something like 32 bit chip on 64 bit bus
> may ring the bell; - to the contrary to their great ethernet chips). But
> once you have everything working, FreeBSD is great, not bloated as
> majority Linuxes became recently.
Additionally, you can achieve to get a system that will
run reliably for a long time, one that is "good for a
long time", instead of something that claims to be "the
best at the moment" / "state of the art" which will be
out of support after a year or so - and no further way
to keep i running because a 3rd party "update server"
has been shut down, or software problems won't be fixed
because there's already a newer system available which
you will be urged to purchase.
System updates are very important. That's why taking
system control out of the hands of the end users, as
"Windows" does it, isn't entirely bad. Forced updates
make sure that Internet-connected systems don't stay
unpatched for years, running spam mail servers or
botnets. Sure, it's not a PC, a _personal_ computer
anymore, as someone else is in control, but people
don't want to be in control, so this is a win-win for
everyone. Corporate "Windows" installations are quite
different, as they allow administrative access to how
and when updates will be rolled out to the individual
computers. There are guidelines, policies, and customs
that say things like "We don't do the updates, we will
test them first, _then_ roll them out", or "We don't do
any updates at all, because if we'd do them, our software
would break". This might be a reason why so many botnets
actually appear on large business installations. ;-)
> One more alternative: Linux, and if you have chunks of hardware that
> need proprietary (binary only, etc) drives ("microcode", "firmware"),
> great choice would be Ubuntu, which is clone of Debian (the last is
> great Linux distro staying away from proprietary stuff). With Linux
> (read: Ubunty), you virtually don't need to invest your time, all will
> work pretty much out of the box, and you will have less bloated, and
> definitely more secure system than MS Windows, ("fatter" than FreeBSD
> would be though).
Definitely true. Today Linux is the operating system (family)
that has the best hardware support, i. e., the one that supports
the most hardware components. Not even "Windows" can do that.
Sure, especially with the most recent hardware where only
closed source drivers are available for "Windows", this is
a problem, but Linux quickly catches up, and you can soon use
current technology, easier than with "Windows", and longer (!)
than with "Windows" (see my example of working printers being
not supported anymore).
--
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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