Date: Wed, 01 May 2019 11:59:38 +1000 From: Michelle Sullivan <michelle@sorbs.net> To: Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ZFS... Message-ID: <FD9802E0-E2E4-464A-8ABD-83B0A21C08F2@sorbs.net> In-Reply-To: <b0fa0f8e-dc45-9d66-cc48-c733cbb9645b@denninger.net> References: <30506b3d-64fb-b327-94ae-d9da522f3a48@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2gf3AZr1-QOX_6yYQoqE-H%2B8MjOWc=eK1tcwt5M3dCzdw@mail.gmail.com> <56833732-2945-4BD3-95A6-7AF55AB87674@sorbs.net> <3d0f6436-f3d7-6fee-ed81-a24d44223f2f@netfence.it> <17B373DA-4AFC-4D25-B776-0D0DED98B320@sorbs.net> <70fac2fe3f23f85dd442d93ffea368e1@ultra-secure.de> <70C87D93-D1F9-458E-9723-19F9777E6F12@sorbs.net> <CAGMYy3tYqvrKgk2c==WTwrH03uTN1xQifPRNxXccMsRE1spaRA@mail.gmail.com> <5ED8BADE-7B2C-4B73-93BC-70739911C5E3@sorbs.net> <d0118f7e-7cfc-8bf1-308c-823bce088039@denninger.net> <2e4941bf-999a-7f16-f4fe-1a520f2187c0@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2gOwwZuGft2vPpR-LmTpMVRy6hM_dYy9cNiw%2Bg1kDYpXg@mail.gmail.com> <34539589-162B-4891-A68F-88F879B59650@sorbs.net> <CAOtMX2iB7xJszO8nT_KU%2BrFuSkTyiraMHddz1fVooe23bEZguA@mail.gmail.com> <576857a5-a5ab-eeb8-2391-992159d9c4f2@denninger.net> <A7928311-8F51-4C72-839C-C9C2BA62C66E@sorbs.net> <b0fa0f8e-dc45-9d66-cc48-c733cbb9645b@denninger.net>
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Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ Sent from my iPad > On 01 May 2019, at 11:33, Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> wrote: >=20 >=20 >> On 4/30/2019 19:14, Michelle Sullivan wrote: >>=20 >> Michelle Sullivan >> http://www.mhix.org/ >> Sent from my iPad >>=20 >>> On 01 May 2019, at 01:15, Karl Denninger <karl@denninger.net> wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> IMHO non-ECC memory systems are ok for personal desktop and laptop >>> machines where loss of stored data requiring a restore is acceptable >>> (assuming you have a reasonable backup paradigm for same) but not for >>> servers and *especially* not for ZFS storage. I don't like the price of= >>> ECC memory and I really don't like Intel's practices when it comes to >>> only enabling ECC RAM on their "server" class line of CPUs either but it= >>> is what it is. Pay up for the machines where it matters. >> And the irony is the FreeBSD policy to default to zfs on new installs usi= ng the complete drive.. even when there is only one disk available and regar= dless of the cpu or ram class... with one usb stick I have around here it a= ttempted to use zfs on one of my laptops. >>=20 >> Damned if you do, damned if you don=E2=80=99t comes to mind. >>=20 > Nope. I'd much rather *know* the data is corrupt and be forced to > restore from backups than to have SILENT corruption occur and perhaps > screw me 10 years down the road when the odds are my backups have > long-since been recycled. Ahh yes the be all and end all of ZFS.. stops the silent corruption of data.= . but don=E2=80=99t install it on anything unless it=E2=80=99s server grade w= ith backups and ECC RAM, but it=E2=80=99s good on laptops because it protect= s you from silent corruption of your data when 10 years later the backups ha= ve long-since been recycled... umm is that not a circular argument? Don=E2=80=99t get me wrong here.. and I know you (and some others are) zfs i= n the DC with 10s of thousands in redundant servers and/or backups to keep y= our critical data corruption free =3D good thing. ZFS on everything is what some say (because it prevents silent corruption) b= ut then you have default policies to install it everywhere .. including hard= ware not equipped to function safely with it (in your own arguments) and yet= it=E2=80=99s still good because it will still prevent silent corruption eve= n though it relies on hardware that you can trust... umm say what? Anyhow veered way way off (the original) topic... Modest (part consumer grade, part commercial) suffered irreversible data los= s because of a (very unusual, but not impossible) double power outage.. and n= o tools to recover the data (or part data) unless you have some form of back= up because the file system deems the corruption to be too dangerous to let y= ou access any of it (even the known good bits) ... =20 Michelle > Karl Denninger > karl@denninger.net <mailto:karl@denninger.net> > /The Market Ticker/ > /[S/MIME encrypted email preferred]/
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