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Date:      Mon, 22 May 2006 18:02:55 +1000
From:      Peter Jeremy <peterjeremy@optushome.com.au>
To:        Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com>
Cc:        grog@freebsd.org, cvs-src@freebsd.org, phk@phk.freebsd.dk, src-committers@freebsd.org, cvs-all@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Apologies
Message-ID:  <20060522080255.GB730@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org>
In-Reply-To: <20060521.182731.74695972.imp@bsdimp.com>
References:  <446B8E36.8050902@elischer.org> <20060518000342.GJ61448@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20060521221556.GA97506@wantadilla.lemis.com> <20060521.182731.74695972.imp@bsdimp.com>

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On Sun, 2006-May-21 18:27:31 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
>> my intention to be offensive, merely to draw attention to problems we
>> have with product management.  These problems remain.

I suspect that the e-mail grog is apologising for should have been
on a private mailing list rather than a public one.  There have been
a couple of cases recently where committers have attacked each other
in public lists - this does not do anything to enhance an outsider's
view of the Project.

>The pcvt removal has been long planned.

As a non-committer, the first I was aware of it was phk's mail last
Wednesday (sent 3 hours before pcvt was axed).  IMHO, this proposal
should have been raised on -arch (and maybe -announce) with a period
allowed for someone to come forward and take over (and fix) pcvt
before it was axed.

The ports subsystem seems to have a formal process where unloved and
broken ports are explicitly flagged for deletion with a (normally) 3
month timeout for someone to step forward.  Maybe something like
this is needed in the base system as well.

>pcvt illustrates a problem that we've had in the project where we have
>too many identical ways of doing the same thing.  Sometimes this
>diversity is good, other times it gets in the way of project making
>progres.  To properly manage the project, we have to make sure that
>there's a balance between these two extremes.

I totally agree.  My concern is the (apparent) lack of a formal process.

--=20
Peter Jeremy

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