From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:26:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB442F55CD for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xs4N5jtbz4p58 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1590679605; x=1593271605; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=NHS5piuXuqIjNC+tqu77md7pCLSOwoq0VRy5QzbFWQQ=; b=c8UYVbB7Aqf4ryQus0WUNn+0gJPH9tYDpGEoKvVUDxMV2rZBt8s9Jr6esgtA8TkX3yuoHc2r42ahINI2xaO8HhPJ5hMCchVI1rw6atugZ/lytCXphHelDAkhQLZbSuq3tN6GsAL5Z50Sn8ZU5NWVbJyKrZoKSkcMmqeBqCZQc6A= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDc3OTIzNWQuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.2]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 28 May 2020 11:26:40 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 28 May 2020 11:26:39 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jeKQX-0007V1-UW; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:26:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:26:37 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Polytropon Cc: Valeri Galtsev , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xs4N5jtbz4p58 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=c8UYVbB7; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.33 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.65)[-0.647]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org, 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:46 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:05 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > Historically, "programmer" meant _all_ stages of program development, Historically (in the days when COBOL was king) you had systems analysts who analysed business systems and decided what programs needed to be written, designers who designed those programs and programmers who wrote the code. Around the time I came into the industry it had collapsed to analyst/programmers who designed things and wrote the hard bits and programmers who wrote the rest. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith