From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 01:38:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C3602F4B8A for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x334.google.com (mail-ot1-x334.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::334]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49V2t75Sb9z446s for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x334.google.com with SMTP id z3so11327573otp.9 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 18:38:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=cKf53TD4MM06mZDPeLqNwiFhA+Vo6Kc+zAfoD3Mrecg=; b=baXH4uIgLFvMhIxjnbGHSAS+Mt0qBEIfU+dDag8jc6hSO2R29TnG59X47RE69asGXJ hFX+WlIFTj0KlR3IwkCwCPLS/P0HbA1pCaMnijw6k+854MDkUA7LhP/TJK5H1vD9ySNV ERYQmtzdB7gftAbzyoTqkglufBTdkxS64Oheb9cxlHzNl4bkx4ozLVhYuW+sbxPpnF2X CVaEB9C6YXgqN5scWZpPmqKjaXeMxSdvBBDfiCEkRywPrTE3c1h1qEpSbpY3Wv9gxXv6 2ECrYGyYRVJKM/PEjZMxs/NIegr2jiG+WdN4WbH0/jWtz+far6EF+9JXWW8C9Kv8tHRG tyMg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=cKf53TD4MM06mZDPeLqNwiFhA+Vo6Kc+zAfoD3Mrecg=; b=PpOt/KAJf267VDKAiDd98kEk0sjUTNbs4gWLkjevG61WVmmj88TWWSXMzFshIGyueO rGswuiMFeXqdN7MFxUXlrwyVmViRfdGVdVZIPuKE4kwibmzCQkmVbc/CDB/x1pD5GkNC TNpiwUxLF+9aYAdZmyVfNMG+Vzh3b6+tQLV1GaaIRJUg5AwFXsHZX02ZCpcxk1piDniC dpZsjkZIc8KA8tmwgwfPwFITa8GXiM1yheJ3SKQTjuJdVXJeAv2Cosk3wjwJ/zLVFGHc YGqf3p80CSf+1ggfHOWrshAfKxctwSLDuLfvgfiFPOpGtatC2j/3JWuey83A9dqXgcJH QR5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532Sk2cDnceJ/kVYRfInS1L533Y1cNIt3hq7i4YduM+TRThGcGML 6vYKRCIgWSKiRtJCrpEvOhXBliDFaMXUHcntsgRSFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoohbraUeR0xqskzPq+5FM03TgpW7NLsF9VSnOeBR5D3Ikj9PRyJ68XwDcYKM8hM1mIxPRyhxZ2ZStVfvMScw= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:785a:: with SMTP id c26mr15362536otm.39.1590284286360; Sat, 23 May 2020 18:38:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: "Kurt Buff - GSEC, GCIH" Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 19:37:54 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49V2t75Sb9z446s X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=baXH4uIg; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kurtbuff@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::334 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kurtbuff@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.07)[-1.074]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.945]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::334:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.40)[-0.396]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 01:38:09 -0000 On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 12:39 AM Doug Denault wrote: > Thoughts/questions on updating a FreeBSD desktop. > > This comes out of the "FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life" thread. It seems to me there > are two distinct sets of users: server and desktop. There have to be a few like > me with a foot in each camp. I am somewhat in the same situation - I am no longer primarily a sysadmin, but have stood up a few servers, and currently I use a couple of FreeBSD machines on our vSphere cluster, and FreeBSD as my secondary desktop, running as a VM on VMWare Workstation Pro on my personal Win10 laptop and under Hyper-V on my work laptop. > The desktop is a whole different thing. Why yes - it is. :) > My solution has been every so often > start fresh because I can not afford the time to risk a non-working desktop. I have done that a couple of times, but haven't needed to do that in quite a while. But, because the desktops are secondary, and not as heavily used, perhaps that makes a difference. > When the ports moved to being based on the release head I had high hopes. I > think I did not understand what that actually meant. My environment is xfce with > enough stuff to give me something close to my partner's OS/X system. In addition > to the "normal" stuff for me this means having, firefox, chrome, libreoffice, > mysql and tigervnc. This ends up with 625 (or so) ports and packages. I did my > current system in December. I don't use mysql on my desktops (but if I needed a database, I'd use postgresql), otherwise I tend to use things like nmap and other network-centric tools. > In this environment, I have never been able to update firefox or the xfce > desktop/panel components to correct bugs or get a new feature. Hmmm..... I have good results using synth, like "portsnap fetch update && synth upgrade-system" and let it run overnight. I do that whenever the mood strikes, or once a month, whichever comes first. > So for example, when glib-2 56 3_6,1 is updated to glib-2 56 3_6,2 or later, I > can not update using pkg or ports. So I guess the question is, is this a Make > file issue, or is the next version really not compatible? As long as the answer > is, either who knows, or it's the same thing, I am pretty much forced to follow > my pattern of all or nothing updating. This has not really been an issue for me, > I've had no security issues as these systems have always been behind a router > and I also use a basic ipfw configuration. > > So all of this is to ask is the update problem totally a technical one, or a > natural consequence stemming from how the FreeBSD project organized? Can't say - haven't had the problems you're seeing. But again - I'm not a heave desktop user, so perhaps I'm not stressing my system like you are. Kurt From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 11:50:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65DEF32B358 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:50:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VJSS15nMz3c5K for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:50:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tech-lists@zyxst.net) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id E65635C007C for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend2 ([10.202.2.163]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 07:50:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VJSS15nMz3c5K X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=iFK5tpI3; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=UDOSjXB2; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 66.111.4.26 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.48 / 15.00]; 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charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, thank you all for your inputs :D On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 11:47:11AM +0200, Ede Wolf wrote: >If I am not mistaken, there are two soundsystems in FreeBSD: OSS and the >newer pcm. OSS may just be layer ontop of pcm, these days. My problem is when building sound ports, I dunno what's best. Basically I w= ant low-latency high quality stereo sound. I'm not a musician. But I want to pl= ay music etc on a nice set of speakers. >Then on top of that one may have a sound server, running in userspace. >Most popular nowadays being pulseaudio, the successor of ESD. Or jack, >popular for low latency audio work. Pulseaudo gives me the heebigeebees a bit because it seems to want to wind itself round everything. Additionally, I don't understand it. >A sound server abstracts the low level audio api and allows stuff like >multiple audio streams (like "you have new mail" and listening to bsd >now on youtube), in case the hardware (or the underlying sound system) >does not. > >Now the FreeBSD audio subsystem, to my little knowledge, allows for >mixing multiple streams. The question is, does this need a special setup >for typical desktop applications? I do not know. > >If not, you may skip using a soundserver. For my use, it depends on the context really. If I'm doing actual work I'll want say maybe a favourite internet radio station playing, but I'll also wa= nt mail notifications and the odd bleep to be heard as well, but for some seri= ous music playing, loud, in my non-work time id like to easily turn those bleeps off and high fidelity. >Deping on your choice of windowmanager or desktop environment, it would >get started automatically or you may have take care of that yourself. choice of windowmanager is a whole other can o' worms. I was using xfce4 fo= r a while but over the last few months it's been using 100% cpu constantly so I= 've switched back to windowmaker which ive been using since the late 90s and ha= ve got my very responsive desktop back. I'd like to try something more modern like kde5 sometime though. Really need a recent walkthrough/howto in the context of nvidia because this is way out of my area of expertise. Years ago I'd just configure sound_drv in the kernel and it'd just work. I didn't know jack was something for low-latency, accurate work. Maybe i'll t= ry that. thanks, --=20 J. --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl7KX2wACgkQs8o7QhFz NAWI0Q/+Is5O6vrrp0XQEvKF1Tk8kZl5PUHvERF0npWSYybqVgzPHHmEuRUYeZbi jaSj4WL5nBdCZuVeCa+OD+bg3iifK8It7EZjd/zIbX1cgQscIRh5zXOpws9ZTkJt s0/V4Vdb9udg39APiA//HvI5iuKKKy2RJNmwfFJDTXOLXa0lUhboPu0eXmxbXQqV O7DMT8fuRgEqKtaTtDngXQUF5YPV0us2vqS1TAbbWZKSPBn4kXAxDr3Yc/uEQ9g+ zXER25AH/LPxu6vNOUOULT4p9tefscNltpmZD2Hxjeh9ZUCaEXvQxhvP3xF0pWNb bhhlxCiozf1idJ0dkYMffhfm4iKsNYTYG/nmXxnU8HjP4zqbKMMUVK7+PMCZjRWS Pm5PXKQ926+gJzmrPeesbTuLEVcxSk9lw+pid/102f/secEKJYQGFkTeZPeI81eu 63eiQlrLf/QWUhgn0X/z3ZMPZWGV/9EwFPkVpzecH1bN4TXcwEVSBkLa97cMi434 gA9o/mgHAV1Qp/d7OuZrGx7130dy0gLjV/ae5ICxsGl0TZUDyQnZRySR7vuSkOC2 Sd021YJ77oSikF6YYJP4vquBkelgR1Rx2dDIdc/7qAV9RUhcO11uMOBXkAzuDT8Z EF5U07ixkUrRFDKib1pz+mVGA/yLvLRkkxXU8lxf3q+Aekvn4z4= =Uf2a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --vtzGhvizbBRQ85DL-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 12:38:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B304D32CD3C for ; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 08:38:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 13:37:44 +0100 From: tech-lists To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation Message-ID: <20200524123744.GC84757@bastion.zyxst.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VKWq72V1z3gjR X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=zyxst.net header.s=fm2 header.b=1n9hcsMB; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=VZBLt/lG; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tech-lists@zyxst.net designates 64.147.123.25 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=tech-lists@zyxst.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[zyxst.net:s=fm2,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.09)[-1.090]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:64.147.123.25:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.012]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zyxst.net]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[zyxst.net:+,messagingengine.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.69)[-0.685]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:64.147.123.0/24, country:US]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[64.147.123.25:from]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.147.123.25:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 12:38:16 -0000 --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I've been using freebsd as a desktop since the late 90s (in addition to running servers). In the last few years it's become a lot easier for deskto= p.=20 I still get confused about *what to use* wrt desktop because there rae=20 lots of different answers (see my thread about desktop sound) but in=20 terms of keeping stuff like ports up-to-date it's got a *lot* easier. Here's what I do: 1. unless you need kernel mods for your specific desktop, run freebsd-12-release and keep it up-to-date with freebsd-update. 2. preferably on another machine with a lot of horsepower, build your ports= in poudriere and point yr desktop pkg at it. You can transfer your ports optio= ns =66rom /var/db/ports to the poudriere build machine, get a listing of insta= lled ports on yr desktop with pkg prime-origins | sort -u | tee ports.lst and fe= ed that to poudriere with -f. poudriere builds the ports in a clean environment so avoiding the issues wi= th not being able to upgrade that you've described. I personally think this is infinitely preferable to "just install linux for= a simpler life" because nothing is simple and I know more about freebsd than linux. With poudriere you get to modify options you want out of ports so is better than linux and the freebsd pkg repositories in this regard. All the ease of pkg and the flexibility of ports. Plus there are other non-ports considerations for using freebsd, like ZFS. --=20 J. --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEE8n3tWhxW11Ccvv9/s8o7QhFzNAUFAl7KapcACgkQs8o7QhFz NAU4vg//S6RLrStDN6ngWzju0+lUrWOIogozXU07yQN2WujHYoSYzHGnAEQ+iIBl RnR0jA0Nvn05MXVOacJ7OozGhpswCLe1PMXulsMN/84yFrtlXP8VUM/tcogsgQuX KLnv++8JRNGDqo+lyrMDpEPLtZ+XPxsuQDwQKbqINPo/Hjy5FnJpX3jnCZsFCed7 30QxJGNdf/Tq8vn3vSvZjAii3+V7tW0E1PXhOYZlz6xzldOMbTJOlRkpueqCM266 ikGqIW8o3c/PAC6uthhZhCs8sAEIe9sslBrtfwtMwkaMkWwX0yynnk/LyY30F4FH 9BL8+bgWyXlZLMnoI1fL9uz2Eoci24M2EyQsrJ/nSFz/wQ/GQOGp2akSpG1lttS5 h1uxrTVRP8Ddmjwr89/+BGoaOxCHTa57maaSPceykVeDPG1Tqx6+V3CIj+E1meC8 c+V+zo4agTic/Z+pFjRVNoKWETx8lvgfL+CrZKMGE0cZ05Plu/50JGSM2IG/7Et3 jF1TXj5hJvFhNpL1OuO/HChBc270zjD5K4rkBCjVXh3U3J/4njAgYau8m07FNU35 ZIgXfI/NTwDEaYmUaHg1RGFWHU1RJQ+xnP6kQL9JG3P89lNPHfEDgMhbzYJ8Evub Dh5EMitPWqnk2XJ4W1Nc0ky/+oNXnf/1zjaB6YP45JQGL7oyyW8= =Jb25 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --8NvZYKFJsRX2Djef-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 13:58:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82CB732E920 for ; 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Sun, 24 May 2020 06:58:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.homeunix.com ([2.222.27.18]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n1sm1102254wrp.10.2020.05.24.06.58.15 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 May 2020 06:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 14:58:14 +0100 From: RW To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524145814.195bc136@gumby.homeunix.com> In-Reply-To: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.5 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.1) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VMJD265Fz44Nj X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.29 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[googlemail.com:s=20161025]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[2.222.27.18:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.043]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[googlemail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[googlemail.com,quarantine]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::436:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.27)[-0.272]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[googlemail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[googlemail.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 13:58:21 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100 tech-lists wrote: > My problem is when building sound ports, I dunno what's best. Personally I've never actively installed any sound port. Currently alsa-lib and alsa-plugins are installed as dependencies of chromium and firefox. Everything else I have installed works just fine with what's in the base system. Many packages that use sound, including vlc, are built without jack and pulseaudio support. You'd have to build your own packages to get that support. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 15:26:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07CC82C8929 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VPFW0Vmrz4C8P for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Updating packages installs a whole lot of packages Message-Id: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 09:26:05 -0600 To: FreeBSD X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VPFW0Vmrz4C8P X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.82)[-0.815]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.68)[-0.681]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.296]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[65.121.55.42:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:26:08 -0000 I went to update dovecot and mariadb-server and without changing the = configuration for either package, I ended up with this: Upgrade mariadb103-server-10.3.22 to mariadb103-server-10.3.23 Install archivers/lzo2 Upgrade libiconv-1.14_11 to libiconv-1.16 Upgrade mariadb103-client-10.3.22 to mariadb103-client-10.3.23 Install devel/cmake Install archivers/libarchive Install devel/jsoncpp Install devel/meson Install devel/ninja Upgrade libuv-1.37.0 to libuv-1.38.0 Install devel/libtool Upgrade gmake-4.2.1_3 to gmake-4.3_1 Upgrade texinfo-6.7_2,1 to texinfo-6.7_3,1 Upgrade curl-7.70.0 to curl-7.70.0_1 Upgrade ca_root_nss-3.51.1 to ca_root_nss-3.52 Install security/rhash Install textproc/py-sphinx Install devel/py-babel@py37 Install devel/py-pytz@py37 Install devel/py-Jinja2@py37 Install textproc/py-MarkupSafe@py37 Install devel/py-packaging@py37 Install devel/py-pyparsing@py37 Install devel/py-six@py37 Install graphics/py-imagesize@py37 Install textproc/py-alabaster@py37 Install textproc/py-docutils@py37 Install textproc/py-pygments@py37 Install textproc/py-snowballstemmer@py37 Install textproc/py-pystemmer@py37 Install lang/cython@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-applehelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-devhelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-htmlhelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-jsmath@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-qthelp@py37 Install textproc/py-sphinxcontrib-serializinghtml@py37 Install www/py-requests@py37 Install dns/py-idna@py37 Install net/py-urllib3@py37 Install net/py-pysocks@py37 Install security/py-certifi@py37 Install security/py-cryptography@py37 Install devel/py-asn1crypto@py37 Install devel/py-cffi@py37 Install devel/py-pycparser@py37 Install security/py-openssl@py37 Install textproc/py-chardet@py37 Upgrade dovecot-2.3.10_3 to dovecot-2.3.10.1 Re-install dovecot-pigeonhole-0.5.10 That seems like a lot of packages to be newly installing, doesn't it? Again, I did not change the options from the already installed versions = that are maybe a month old. --=20 Well, we know where we're goin' But we don't know where we've been And we know what we're knowin' But we can't say what we've seen From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 15:39:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 548DE2C9026 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) Received: from mail.covisp.net (mail.covisp.net [65.121.55.42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VPXW3wLMz4ClG for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kremels@kreme.com) From: "@lbutlr" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: Updating packages installs a whole lot of packages Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 09:39:05 -0600 References: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> To: FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <54E07FC7-7964-4913-8E8E-CDAFDA1DCA0F@kreme.com> Message-Id: <4244E3A8-61BE-43D2-A563-F67BF2D494A8@kreme.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.80.23.2.2) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VPXW3wLMz4ClG X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kremels@kreme.com designates 65.121.55.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=kremels@kreme.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.22 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.875]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_MIME_VERSION(2.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[kreme.com]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.75)[-0.754]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.19)[-0.187]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:209, ipnet:65.112.0.0/12, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[65.121.55.42:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 15:39:08 -0000 On 24 May 2020, at 09:26, @lbutlr wrote: > I went to update dovecot and mariadb-server and without changing the = configuration for either package, I ended up with this: Apologies. I meant to send this to freebsd-ports@freebsd.org. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:05:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7122C9A76 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic311-31.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic311-31.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.163]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VQ6x5gbLz4FcW for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: 3d2PZfgVM1kSECmpI6KOZP0XEXbYe.MV1hStLws0.QyxZsEifhHlt_lc4fJXDD0 p3qN3y_MNcfifRap77ej59jfS9SXfvwfgKcct_clItnMpv6gOejcqOJfGw6eh5AoKNL2Zo1.3k4p LvnBROjLiKi4JyZTnYejshz1jeOrAvgB5Pjg.Tcy87jb5EkDfUt8GhoBUCrMtSK9TjZj9QNIFFbC TFzMWoFgBxNz3owRvun2uI2pqg0UCpP2f75lqsTget3hvMulsqEQj7L36jElE7esPUwI6Ms4j2io 6SvS8V_0IeW.J0wAjJA.w37chyF3Y6tGf2vI7XHdRXSiTTSlCtVGBFV8xAYDUjOBRrLwqOPBAyHw pbQq1hHUc0NO2gsNcxYO4AiVCKmuqaG0ELy8Jn4zZsySzobw.fb6bQrJUWE3qBnUDeLeMjipeAq. q.VR_JpwNNQG_sHxO0I_7HIDt1vrViPZ7Rfk4bG5IOtAH1Tk7SVSzIXgMGXF5dZofL.d4w069iQS 3V2KyaGE9FM_8jMmHwvR5VI3Mbadnshr7bNe6I4MCQWQrFb6H67TYG1H9bgWY9MdILl7HAlzJ0f_ aPRY0h7vUXUMn84JovKdC3zRgSzeJHIb6IvPfZUg_mwmsLyIBRn1Sz54XCTEmtDrbjs4cdz5sM3S etkgaJv8nAIiRJCGG3Z7frx0N7C4b1gbJarzjfKv6QrgySU9_RfQ4Jjmm1b0D2ijz23b6TiioAIH D30JzpHu5b02EQ071kc..GPxhhDQjeT2wYaaCVI78EvUcW2kRwPF9mUb3WVtlYCB1wcIRn2pI63a FLVIG9uXtcPqd1Vx7e21oZ3shX8yt._6EkzEmiVkNh4B6ufkP03FG3e67s4A7Ij7PRX9R7ojfjgF V7H4HTl5ld3mCg5r43z1t3y6UtbpSm4bAl9h3Ho9puFqyZ8vc1D4EB6d_iRn.UgfE72fwZkFbqwj lKeQ.lIret4qoH55lQKGBLca_npttiL6BUnCHcWb8sKBaJlhsYXw.O5s3RErzp14W8CX49KJEnzA U2a2TcFnij4.32k2vRpFHkvU7kNsGTChE38VI1I8IGsoZ.TYwPoah2LmlJKo0Dv8LNKtcXC5r8GB VDWeuzqswcy46SuiA5YzOSgXXyGzNHtEa_uhWjrA9QvDnn3WOoLGm1qpdG6xl.PivarNJsbItMXl .6adVAqazY0lw6ylgugyvVa5I6vqp3aFh6h9n0f9Ahmxmm5UuJ9AOKZV2Uh9JvlFv.uZ4opS4i.J RqmuDB68_fMNuObCn4jnx3V1NdfVgM3WTzXoVtFH_iiKSoPThcygomo4uyo05qAvMbKhKJjyUoAK ZQePocxoMiKtZRpiE9MhFCPVNU7svHl9biVsDJxK26WdoiQJaBpSe5CfKarWSCMJ3UAMs20h7No7 _kus- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:27 +0000 Received: by smtp417.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c8a6fc8d2bbb291e8c9df408a2e04fed; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:23 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:05:25 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: best sound subsystem for freebsd for a desktop Message-ID: <20200524180525.17d51260@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> References: <20200519141914.GF23072@bastion.zyxst.net> <9bfbb6e7-9d04-bc5e-d196-9c70f59f6528@nebelschwaden.de> <20200524114946.GA84757@bastion.zyxst.net> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VQ6x5gbLz4FcW X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.68 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.85)[-0.846]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.163:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.335]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.010]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.163:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:05:31 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 12:49:46 +0100, tech-lists wrote: >I didn't know jack was something for low-latency, accurate work. >Maybe i'll try that. Hi, assuming I should understand your needs correctly jack doesn't do what you want. A lot of apps can't be build with jack support at all. Broadly speaking jack is aimed to keep audio routing streams in accurate sync. You don't need this, unless you are doing audio productions. It does not "make" low latency audio, the user needs a system more or less optimised for low latency audio work to run jack. It doesn't provide sample-rate conversion, so all apps need to use the same sample rate or a workaround doing the required resampling. Good apps with jack support don't auto-connect, the user has to manually connect the apps with jack. Those odd apps that automagically connect with jack are usually a PITA to use with jack. Firefox is probably the only browser with jack support. If you can't get a binary with jack support, you need to build Firefox yourself. Firefox is bloated. It takes way longer to build Firefox, than even building a bloated kernel. Each time a vulnerable gets fixed by a Firefox update, you need to build Firefox again. Jack was designed for pro-audio apps, not for averaged desktop apps. Pulseaudio is aimed for John and Jane Doe. Averaged desktop apps with different sample rates can connect to pulseaudio and the audio streams are automatically converted to the audio devices sample rate and automatically mixed. IOW (almost) everything is done automagically. Without using a sound server at all, only one app can connect with the audio device. Workarounds could allow to use several app simultaneously, even without using a sound server. I'm running a Linux (real-time audio) DAW. I never ever would install pulseaudio. However, for desktop audio I'm using plain ALSA and the PC speaker beep. The real PC speaker, no beep via the audio device. I don't use a workaround, so I can only connect one app with the audio device. For audio productions I'm using jack with the ALSA backend. Very seldom I'm using jack with desktop apps, such as Firefox, too. My guess is that for your needs neither jack, nor no sound server at all is the way to go. You probably want pulseaudio or another sound server aimed for averaged desktop usage. Regards, Ralf PS: No, my PC speaker isn't constantly beeping, I neither have got things such as a desktop with a trash bin and even if I would use a desktop with a trash bin and other bits and bobs, I wouldn't allow those bits and bobs to beep. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:35:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AEEA2CA5B7 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VQnF09fQz4Hph for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04OGZ3jO081841 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) To: FreeBSD Mailing List Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Subject: python version issue Message-ID: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:33:12 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Sun, 24 May 2020 10:35:04 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VQnF09fQz4Hph X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.77 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.65)[-0.654]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.43)[-0.427]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.61)[0.614]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:35:14 -0000 I'm trying to build a development version of a port (FreeCAD). All of my current ports were installed using packages, and the installed versions of python are 2.7 and 3.7. The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) specifies: USES= ... python:3.6 ... BUILD_DEPENDS= ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2-tools@${PY_FLAVOR} It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: make DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes build ===> FreeCAD-8.d821.f5.f depends on package: py37-pyside2-tools>0 - not found ===> py37-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 Unknown flavor 'py37', possible flavors: py27 py36.. I see there is a devel/pyside2-tools, so I suspect I somehow need to set some environment variables to get it to generate a py37-pyside2-tools? Why is py37 not an available flavor, with version 3.7 already installed? Gary From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 16:51:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 882862CAE89 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from erza.lautre.net (erza.lautre.net [80.67.160.89]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "lautre.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VR7g5LT9z4K5X for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thierry@pompo.net) Received: from graf.pompo.net (graf.pompo.net [78.225.128.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by erza.lautre.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DA394F2952 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: by graf.pompo.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F28D03036E9; Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 18:51:08 +0200 From: Thierry Thomas To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: python version issue Message-ID: <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.1-STABLE amd64 Organization: Kabbale Eros X-Face: (hRbQnK~Pt7$ct`!fupO(`y_WL4^-Iwn4@ly-.,[4xC4xc; y=\ipKMNm<1J>lv@PP~7Z<.t KjAnXLs: X-PGP: 0xF1C516B3C8359753 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VR7g5LT9z4K5X X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of thierry@pompo.net designates 80.67.160.89 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=thierry@pompo.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.98 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.63)[0.627]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[freebsd.org]; RBL_VIRUSFREE_BOTNET(2.00)[80.67.160.89:from]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.82)[0.817]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.33)[1.333]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[thierry@freebsd.org,thierry@pompo.net]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20766, ipnet:80.67.160.0/19, country:FR]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[thierry@freebsd.org,thierry@pompo.net]; TO_DOM_EQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:51:12 -0000 --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le dim. 24 mai 20 =E0 18:33:12 +0200, Gary Aitken =E9crivait=A0: > The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) specifies: > USES=3D ... python:3.6 ... > BUILD_DEPENDS=3D ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2= -tools@${PY_FLAVOR} >=20 > It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible > with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. > Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: Set USES=3Dpython:3.6+ --=20 Th. Thomas. --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJ8BAEBCgBmBQJeyqX7XxSAAAAAAC4AKGlzc3Vlci1mcHJAbm90YXRpb25zLm9w ZW5wZ3AuZmlmdGhob3JzZW1hbi5uZXRFNTM2QkU4NTM4NTM5OUQwMEI2RkFBNzZG MUM1MTZCM0M4MzU5NzUzAAoJEPHFFrPINZdTHt4QAIZZH+fL6u7YdfKlYNGosvyb fYGBCyORMIA+kVeQu2EIh2Vm/urNr7Abh+SIOM7GiR/HrrvIgcF80H8/Gf0rjkCC pa+jCHr457zcBq4fp41n/KpDlDiNv3iRXytPzBALOXmpPOnIyLhZ6PNrXghBNkcF jq+m8BIOBYuSnPQkR023l5MPOrev6UHZkru2BJYr+Tgx7TZzhckP9sP98it3hKIf wNn3dy/WfpCk/aSONwZo6ZD1/qGJTvIS+FClEGG0k0NuvDu76l/bZnAfwJCGaXc9 8L/8SdM3K4xR9MzbX1LX0fXsJrXzP5Z7/5Vbsc+NKZ8TQ7OGWd1kYXxP7Kexwelk MLxZqo9IzOOukjHDBC2/dyKClYlS7liu21rRASbHs/EXUkXNnLBNae6/CA8+uVma 1YusQ+H9cQRVgaS+95A/8EP2srtEH9zanurWN9cm74wm9qXLffkcHi6vtwmq0YB4 30Uo0eiVM83EOtP0DJb6gi+92X8qf565CuhvCLZl6uLU1xKCN2SuW5WMkA8EeKUa cb12rOZdgySHENZO7gZzsTJRWxizv+g5ifZLiqV254jarOLYNfqaR5WszmUVG1/h w/BTXK4/buIbkW9CEKBWb1vL7/I9mLMUx4M16rlUovwHh9BCimpZXT/qWCEoB8vw 0KwuaaO23NrlI7J86N77 =Zvrq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --GvXjxJ+pjyke8COw-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 17:01:27 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E76B2CAFF3 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VRMV3GvZz4Kmv for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04OH1OAp081912 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 11:01:25 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Subject: Re: python version issue To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <449558a7-a457-48e5-a282-39e130f09853@dreamchaser.org> <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Message-ID: <42701269-4225-cb3c-f6eb-4ab245e50d97@dreamchaser.org> Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 10:59:33 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200524165108.GA26184@graf.pompo.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Sun, 24 May 2020 11:01:25 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VRMV3GvZz4Kmv X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.61)[-0.608]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.09)[-0.094]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.58)[0.578]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 17:01:27 -0000 On 5/24/20 10:51 AM, Thierry Thomas wrote: > Le dim. 24 mai 20 à 18:33:12 +0200, Gary Aitken > écrivait : > >> The Makefile for the standard freecad port (cad/freecad) >> specifies: USES= ... python:3.6 ... BUILD_DEPENDS= >> ${PYTHON_PKGNAMEPREFIX}pyside2-tools>0:devel/pyside2-tools@${PY_FLAVOR} >> It's my understanding that a 3.6 usage should be upward compatible >> with a 3.7 version, so I changed the USES statement to python:3.7. >> Unfortunately, the BUILD_DEPENDS causes problems: > > Set USES=python:3.6+ > I tried that, but then it looks like it is using python 3.6 and trying to install older versions of already-installed packages? # make DISABLE_VULNERABILITIES=yes build ===> FreeCAD-8.d821.f5.f depends on package: py36-pyside2-tools>0 - not found ===> License BSD3CLAUSE GPLv2 accepted by the user ===> py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 depends on file: /usr/local/sbin/pkg - found ===> Fetching all distfiles required by py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 for building ===> Extracting for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 => SHA256 Checksum OK for pyside-setup-everywhere-src-5.12.1.tar.xz. ===> Patching for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 ===> Applying FreeBSD patches for py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 ===> py36-pyside2-tools-5.12.1 depends on package: py36-setuptools_scm>0 - not found ===> py36-setuptools_scm-3.1.0 depends on package: py36-setuptools>0 - not found ===> py36-setuptools-40.8.0 depends on file: /usr/local/bin/python3.6 - not found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on package: pkgconf>=1.3.0_1 - found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on executable: msgfmt - found ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on shared library: libffi.so - found (/usr/local/lib/libffi.so) ===> python36-3.6.8_1 depends on shared library: libreadline.so.7 - not found ===> Installing for readline-7.0.5 ===> Checking if readline is already installed ===> readline-7.0.5 is already installed You may wish to ``make deinstall'' and install this port again by ``make reinstall'' to upgrade it properly. If you really wish to overwrite the old port of readline without deleting it first, set the variable "FORCE_PKG_REGISTER" in your environment or the "make install" command line. *** Error code 1 Despite the "readline-7.0.5 is already installed, it is not: $ pkg info | grep readline readline-8.0.1 Library for editing command lines as they are typed It seems like it needs to be using/generating py37 versions, to be compatible with higher-numbered versions such as readline-8.0.1 instead of 7.0.5? confused... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun May 24 23:48:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8AD2DE239 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x241.google.com (mail-lj1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49VcPK1f6pz3fSc for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x241.google.com with SMTP id k5so18861908lji.11 for ; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=BLTKLBJ3KNUFvo4tty5NW1XKytPFXxavGteYtHDdu2I=; b=Uclw5/BBpULjlVSH/nCffjAbHL+rvKcAxdkVH/F0I75SaHq0gvbaxsF4dpzd84FXwS pJLbJzP4CRL7zO7dOmVWkEkZBylW3FzIzIh3rFDPhxuNVAtbEAggBh5juCKWhQDo/hGE GKT4Lq8A3ozLbVSujxwYnINROddmNzlFEFRtkxYKYaDIRlbrktxaLV9UzPjoaIzJz6ye 7UM/tpzpT+yORjzXGB9dFah2PxNgisRS51vvHoMGLVcMN2mkMOvtUPLQkOdMDcia80PH QKB+tPpPV2EC9hiZoFbzC/gJx9mukV0xSmAgGcZvBJ8CwJ+8CBYUep/yivjGmYi5Y3Ju 3Lvg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=BLTKLBJ3KNUFvo4tty5NW1XKytPFXxavGteYtHDdu2I=; b=R5W3f5Reo3NDpi9yg+O65KK7+qflfiIw0aixwuTfTNKNEvDVxhTIImLYCs3tn8IpE3 I+UjbDfn7E0/8F6PcJuZ1LGf3OP7/F3H3DGFj3hb1D72hI/ssWbLgJBYpwu+x98PWtLP u5jfa2Pj4KUcMmBDtmv7Pyev8BrZgOHHg/WmvFvxJx0YMi7zikDdVgUfGov73eivb8iq cD5ctYWsSrp/MlZ9m8iSejs5NXuHlVCnL4p7JcgbQvgvm0XCVvSU+iCBWcoDQUfQArB6 wVX1TDgFlSSH2gGH/BtlcYH05Iweq4lWdXj8htcdSU7Ts/gxfxav7e9dl2UW3XM4v0q8 fsZg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533zoZNa8oFHqgSjeinhO+GiONZajKTBf8VTkcR/ODu+Y2zQgt7l kGNwDKgs0P8zpvVdOKNpC6ATzT0b/iwq4fxssAZIbUHr X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJymVFPNFjnBskfeAtiTdLk67bazawRiXheCjHltY/q3VWWZfnlsl35SMICbTGUM+nH/xcZT17K53CIcXkD9lMk= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:900a:: with SMTP id h10mr10261637ljg.329.1590364114476; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: From: Donald Wilde Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: David Christensen Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49VcPK1f6pz3fSc X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Uclw5/BB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.63 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.61)[-0.611]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.019]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::241:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 May 2020 23:48:38 -0000 I had to remain with the MBR-based system. GPT just flat-out did not work for me but I have got a working system and successfully updated it to 12-STABLE. I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' worked. Thanks! Happy Beastie here. On 5/23/20, Donald Wilde wrote: > Mine (the laptop) is not quite 2007 vintage, although my Dell i7 > tower is. :) IIRC it's about 2012 or so. Still going fine although > it's just a HDD-based mule. Upgrading it now to 12-STABLE. > > I am using it as a "refresher" on FreeBSD; I was paid by Bob Bruce > 1998 to 2000 to do "advocacy" for FreeBSD. I orchestrated the 3-way > press conference between the FreeBSD and NetBSD projects and Apple at > the release of DARWIN... time does pass... > > I have a relative who's asked me to make a specialized social network > for his business, and I've decided to return to using FreeBSD. Not all > hosting corps will support FreeBSD servers, but since I intend to > purchase and support everything through the business, that isn't an > issue. I'll buy Intel's fancy Optane caching boards when I buy servers > for the project, and every "drive" will be SS except for a portable > boot drive. > > > On 5/23/20, David Christensen wrote: >> On 2020-05-22 21:43, Donald Wilde wrote: >>> Service tag 5K8W162 >>> >>> I will try using MBR instead of GPT, as you suggest. I did that once >>> the first time and no joy. Other than that and using the USB instead >>> of DVD, the only other delta in your procedure is zeroing the disk and >>> ensuring that all settings in BIOS are set to default. >>> >>> Do I need to erase my USB key and only put the key-version ISO on it? >>> Why would that be superior to using a DVD, other than the waste of >>> plastic? >>> >>> The only other possible problem I can see is that I simply named the >>> machine, and did not create a meaningless FQDN (in my NAT). >>> >>> Thank you for your answer, and I WILCO. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-22 22:20, Clay Daniels wrote: >> > I would second all of David's suggestions, but would like to also >> recommend >> > using GParted to clear & write a new partition table, be it MBR or >> GPT. >> > GParted lets you take control of the drive. It's Gnome Partition >> Editor >> & >> > free: >> > >> > https://gparted.org/ >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-22 23:03, Manish Jain wrote: >> > I think we are using a nuclear missile to kill a mosquito ! >> > >> > The FreeBSD installer can do everything needed by itself. >> > >> > 1) Boot from the FreeBSD CD/DVD >> > >> > 2) Choose Install >> > >> > 3) At the disk setup page, choose Manual >> > >> > 4) Remove all existing partitions. When done that, press 'd' again >> (for >> > delete) with ada0 selected. That will delete the partition table >> itself. >> > >> > 5) Press 'c' (for create) to create a new MBR (DOS) partition table. >> > >> > 6) Create partitions as needed and install. >> > >> > That should be it. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-23 02:01, D'Arcy Cain wrote: >> > [Zeroing the disk] is exactly what I found when going from Linux to >> FreeBSD. Just run >> > dd(1) with input file /dev/zero on the raw disk before starting your >> > installation. You have to completely wipe out the Linux boot blocks. >> >> >> >> On 2020-05-23 08:06, Donald Wilde wrote: >> > The MBR boot after wiping the disk was successful. YAY, Beasties! TYVM >> > for all the advice. :D >> > >> > Taking your thought to heart, D'Arcy, I'm going to try again with GPT >> > now that Linux is gone, gone, gone! :D >> >> >> I'm glad the BIOS/ MBR install worked. :-) >> >> >> That looks like a decent daily driver laptop, especially if you maxed >> out the RAM and installed a good SSD: >> >> >> https://www.dell.com/support/home/en-us/product-support/servicetag/0-aUlCTHJhMTkzWUs5S1dMQjN2WGdIdz090/overview >> >> >> My 2007 Inspiron E1505 gave me many years of service (with repairs and >> upgrades). It still works. >> >> >> I zero my USB flash drives before burning them with an installer image >> out of sheer OCD, but it should not be required. (I wrote a Perl script >> to only write zeros to dirty blocks, to conserve write cycles.) >> >> >> Most every x86 computer made in the last 30 years will have a USB port. >> Many newer computers, especially portable computers, do not have optical >> drives. >> >> >> It is easy to make changes to an installer on a USB flash drive, and you >> don't have to burn a disc for every edit-compile-test cycle. I hacked >> my FreeBSD USB installer to slice and partition system disks the way I >> like them. >> >> >> I have boogered installs many ways, including the hostname, FQDN, >> network name, and/or network settings. The FreeBSD installer offers you >> a root shell into the installed image near the end. If you know what >> file(s) to edit, you can fix those mistakes. Alternatively, some >> installers let you re-run specific steps. TIMTOWDI. >> >> >> I image my system disks regularly. Zero-filling them before an install >> saves image storage space. Partition editors within installers >> typically do not zero-fill. (I need to figure out how to zero unused >> blocks beneath GELI and ZFS prior to imaging; does anyone know how?) >> >> >> David >> _______________________________________________ >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to >> "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >> > > > -- > Don Wilde > **************************************************** > * What is the Internet of Things but a system * > * of systems including humans? * > **************************************************** > -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 09:10:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23F6D2F9031 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:10:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.131]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Vrs36m3Mz4dRG for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:09:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.22.204]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue012 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1My6xz-1iolVr1MR5-00zUel; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:09:48 +0200 Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 11:09:46 +0200 From: Polytropon To: dwilde1@gmail.com Cc: David Christensen , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails Message-Id: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:7IfvPWX+ffud5zU/U+rFXyzVB7qGERf+O4jvq81D1esiwCxEwd0 xVCFL9Slto1OKlree7/m21z7McY9C4Y8o0CJ5S7jbV9NhYvs7Sz9olVaju5GaLX0EPN36cn 8TWceSWXqeltJbhmVVvOoe+gp3K1Zi5ibm7ReP2Ggdp2wA92cbQTbdl2xGRnbAITeHWDQis XeB9jU+jY6uKHLRZMItNQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:aZntl+f56o0=:TsS+luwCnOpnY328eWVDia oZXUcB43SDgSivWj7PZ/r1m2Ft8tlMQGdzCbiXB392keLMyr2Ttr4KMWl94NIJYxJiI2s6qbM c7Yiz6psMStwSznRKLkrSX3kqOGLcUxkYd1ljqX7W5nyDHY0v6NjD4a9p3dXA40dzotsJf9EC oRrNiNgPwWVvxyafM1Qy4recOEbsc1a9fi5FiXlqWUep8lgaGCYanUuUD7pRfsOr/XjmpfBLP 3rzGOi98py7/Wi2430UK7bcbL7pQRB9eb1v7y8N5/z6dlOiKden9GnhTDraz/SAPLO8PcV3SA FERgtwf/ZPu0FoZqM9onpxfoI3jrTT2e/HV25DINxhi1eF07PlLX5YKOwPqs28vQrXkSLuQuP e7n1J3JMcJE0FuxrdOxa7c0eVT7HHlKAW4TaN8JOAeFZIr+i+hKJWiIs9PlRkrhNgIBrqDxcg 6QTuWeO76dhGB64MrRcAkPmR/BGboEj7bVfEH4Ia8NLfiG2t08SFLm+P5gLwXNT7e2rJF7Obl vti4vtV6R60N5eb7YvQtbaZ+8W8Toz+6LbCUPuNjYGFs8ocvJG1y9NdYZUPGrUqAsF6/WJxzq GM+gSB+bygGG/637ec6q9nrbz03h83J5qUx5q7ja/b7Z2o7sbul1hEyAqMTBKKGSW7xTign7v ENZznGORUgghhKypoLAh/PPmkNSGCem1jL+Z7e0Pp8ergOax3cn9XX7wBVly6sFT/ChsY8eKH WAXmLmeGBTIGwR5MmkhWc2keMyFq6IlFeFjVQY2rcrvFgGfi8Nghx7R6eO2S7CXu3KZDDUKa1 AYvyvl7kOzIbQYmZGoNgFXWF6HdkCQddc+RNzxPuZaCnCt55EB4QF8OyRMuCLYuIuUZMVxU X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Vrs36m3Mz4dRG X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.131) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.98 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.39)[-0.392]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.22.204:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.50)[0.505]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.47)[0.465]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.131:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.131:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 09:10:01 -0000 On Sun, 24 May 2020 16:48:33 -0700, Donald Wilde wrote: > I had to remain with the MBR-based system. GPT just flat-out did not > work for me but I have got a working system and successfully updated > it to 12-STABLE. This is a strange observation, but still possible. Modern systems should work with GPT just fine. For example, I have a Lenovo laptop, probably 10+ years old, where I have a FreeBSD 12 installation using GPT for partitioning. This has been done using the "bsdinstall" installer. Sometimes a specific combination of { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. Please also see this excellent overview: http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/docs/html/disksetup.html > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > worked. It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most problems with ports. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 16:03:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BE7032B108 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x234.google.com (mail-lj1-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::234]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W22H1Gsfz43tN for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x234.google.com with SMTP id v16so21301896ljc.8 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=9hbd0qGGVuR16b+cafWxwJyr6Qxfk3RakWnZyE2FJ2g=; b=Q5DmWwGSm3hnTq/nQ6rLkcLovosSHV1f+Tbf+FhzBaFqhI1nlTLbYSwcLr8nc7sAck /eR9rtJqam7CWSnRA01qhKjg9jfJRRr/HZOXGIeqq79UqDlC1PoEzO8RralcEkH55w4u SJMbd6ZGyt0NTgzSi/07tAETLYvO7MUoP4xMlKVeYUEv/mCyS8X3AUdPxU1Ft/HD08x/ 9lOKzR9tLtiCDwGePdlLgTZSVOu3M0q2SzslMquJzpAUqTvGjbsuaxFb5xbJOLwaeR0+ Ea5y8IauhixOaAOgRJZwUcr2JOv4xObHghDSGT4jxSiw1uiW6/AwNAeeVfybQ2+gp3er irkw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9hbd0qGGVuR16b+cafWxwJyr6Qxfk3RakWnZyE2FJ2g=; b=B9OJ9rjp12PybkFtW46AVn6/MrmLOiPgelPcOjsej+WXSME8ZVeLsKtI6pRbLhjM/C /IAtGsoUZml8NUfaQTR8kyeF2DusYrvHWRcpr1W/OdWSJ5pOCRmVuY96RyG/+rxCnsB5 DVwMks599r80qVQfHfd6iJLy9DiDJB7VM6Tzx/My30LFJBtNC0Occ07XtsfIO/FmQDDt xoYUJxalMYiSCxAhNovikNrSPUT1GrcmRRc3e01CLwGIVssvpF8I4Inzkg9gge1zBT9w YiaWi7GAdjqJ/U0yn0/SnmpK/XsYm7p/AAQ9S4G7b61xnN39yPrQNnTjnN1n486maRwo VN6g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533bHuJaBF3A+BrTzbK2G/O+uPTtGsfdcov/e+8q9WZwYj5pme4W RKnqHGfOldubUvZTo3vzJ1aIWyuYIuewaMro2YU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwNgt+T9yuR4ZTZ99BXftf8B6WOk/u4KcmuAr3KjKmoErqoBD0c03QRbQNKU7Sd5WW5vlyJmTWVBOhrgg6P4QQ= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3215:: with SMTP id y21mr674079ljy.85.1590422613225; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:32 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 09:03:32 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: Polytropon Cc: David Christensen , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W22H1Gsfz43tN X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Q5DmWwGS; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.37 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.35)[-0.348]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.018]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::234:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:03:36 -0000 > Sometimes a specific combination of > > { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } > > can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. You would think, wouldn't you? When I enabled UEFI, it promptly ignored everything except my NICs so that was out. Using Legacy BIOS it successfully built and allowed access to my system but only with MBR-format file system. No GPT worked, at least with partitioning. > > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > > worked. > > It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" > for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most > problems with ports. :-) As I say, /usr/ports/misc/freebsd-doc-en did me in. Corrupted the whole system. Anybody else want to play guinea pig? Steps to reproduce: 1) Update to 12-STABLE from 12.1R 2) Update the Handbook installation (without first installing dependencies graphics/graphviz and lang/vala) Reminded me of how much a 'learning experience' FreeBSD is... This port is such an amazing, layered set of dependencies it is starkly amazing that it can be made to work at all. Vala? WT[DELETED] is vala? I had to look it up! :) The flexibility of FreeBSD can be tiresome at times but that configurability will come to my rescue at some point. Game on, and again, thanks for all the advice! :D -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 18:31:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1C6132EC18 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W5Jz3cdyz4JmS for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 04PIVNAd070268; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Doug Denault To: Polytropon cc: Odhiambo Washington , User Questions Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation In-Reply-To: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> Message-ID: References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W5Jz3cdyz4JmS X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of doug@safeport.com designates 198.74.231.101 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=doug@safeport.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.30 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.877]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:198.74.231.101]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.79)[-0.793]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[safeport.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.529]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:198.74.228.0/22, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:31:32 -0000 On Sat, 23 May 2020, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 23 May 2020 10:47:37 +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote: >> Look at it this way: Ardent FreeBSD guys started PC-BSD, which was quite good >> for the Desktop. They then changed to TrueOS (just the name) and finally >> decided that TrueOS is better left to be their server version and >> https://project-trident.org/ to be their Desktop version. The later is based >> on something called Void Linux (I am hearing about that for the first time >> today after your post prompted me to look for PC-BSD, TrueOS). So either head >> to Project Trident or just identify some Linux for the Desktop. You will have >> and an easier life. I have two issues here: (1) too many of them; (2) the FreeBSD source doe not necessarily match a release level. > Additionally, what about Lumina? FreeBSD was supposed to get a native desktop > environment that better suited the needs for working with FreeBSD (as the OS) > than desktops ported from Linux, which still don't really offer a consistent > and useful interface to FreeBSD system functions and configuration. Of course, > this would only cover the desktop - not any application program (like web > browser, office suite, vector graphics program, photo manipulation or video > editing tool), which are again coming from Linux, and therefore carry a lot of > specific dependencies where the gap of "FreeBSD vs. Linux" seems to be > increasing. I mentioned system functions: Lumina was supposed to offer GUI > interfaces to system configuration, hardware management, networking, OS and > application updates, diagnostics, and so on, things that most users would > probably expect to be integrated in a desktop. > > So I'd say, if you want a "just works", use Linux. You'll find all things > mentioned in an integrated form, working. Because it was made for Linux, it > will work on Linux. Thanks for your thoughts. I guess I should have included it for reference but I use my desk top as a first look at what's gonna happen when I update the servers. So out-of-the-box is not my goal at all. I'm pretty old and decided when I was not so old I had one more OS "in me" and decided FreeBSD was it for reasons that made sense (at least to me :). Back in the 4.5 days it was most useful in un-IBMing my thinking and instincts, and becoming a reasonable unix sysadmin. Partly all this is because I believe FreeBSD can not give up on the Desktop world and remain in the server world. (See pair.com). To that end, I really believe in the thing I read somewhere (maybe Richie) that the Unix philosophy is "I will not stop you from doing something incredibly stupid, because that may stop you from doing something incredibly clever". The PHP project is the exact opsite of this. > That is not a statement that suggests that it's impossible to get an excellent > desktop with FreeBSD (I know it - I'm using them for decades). There is even a > port "mkdesktop" that does most of the work for you: You select which desktop > you want, and the port will take care of the dependencies. > > The core problem is: "the desktop" means different things to different people. > What does it include? Just a GUI file manager and icons on the wallpaper? Or > bundled applications? And what about integration with the OS, so you can > configure your system? The "problem" with choice: Whatever your definition is, > you'll definitely find something that suits your needs. :-) What I am doing meets my needs. I was not clear on that. In fighting with the HP and othe BIOS's and solving other installation problems, rare is the day I do not learn something useful to my server-self. My comment was more along the line that I did not understand at all, and still do not I guess, understand what making the head of the ports tree being tied to a release level had as a goal. I was suprised at the relatively small number of common libraries between the ports that make interium pkg updates unlikely (for me). Because of the small intersection I was wondering if the 'pkg' problem could in fact be mitigated in the Make files. Having written all this I guess you nailed me, in that I am mostly complaining that I want others to solve my ports issue, which is largely self-imposed. I really appreciate the feedback. _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 18:54:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E42932F82F for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x241.google.com (mail-lj1-x241.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::241]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49W5qY4BVcz4NGb; Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x241.google.com with SMTP id a25so10121834ljp.3; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ZTwwrrUNg7dcZ5pTU6UrDNSYbOfOIEj4yyTT6579mTM=; b=VdIIRe7Li8anQTFZoy2oyGFYh+tXg2XiKHPFDnMDMSEtF5hmHt45t7hRbCDfYC/g7J tmvsqaq7jcK/j0jcJEwwf62cHRhmIoAeGH0GSvRD/eX3jPA+z80G1wkNWMfs57l+xDY3 lGaTfbyTulfGAQla/dW7KofiWHRVjZ0OoMDbd5iN3mxFK4M7l7Ta2TZjtJ8meqaxGukM SGa5JD0abkeTKYMSMMPlF0Uo8LGJM4oG5YurUBTCr75EadeIipbNWuxk/wce9OHgRGPk 0g3Kb9z3uAnVKrG/YalYZTnxXs3roivqVXDgIdJTH8jDapnuCDy4ZlGWK/rqKzypRmGw TCbA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=ZTwwrrUNg7dcZ5pTU6UrDNSYbOfOIEj4yyTT6579mTM=; b=ktZ14xqLIft6adklmCJ7htd/L4ZgHd4U/1B+cspxJ9Yu4QckVTud8svYqkOHZeL76p /YYMUpCMlDkaN9gVP8gzwXiwkIlv2JwMQiZdua1pshw/vgP1ZWshHx/tNZr4KYz4euyL 5VQyUauJDLAnWNCz13VkLvRwpdPgaRpzP5KIjEgnV+uwkq7eQsEakjoaKkxD2YAShgnK ciLpOuHmzRyos6y9N5lM1roRU+v8zE7+OxCTTRIkOosFPtaXjx9fTN2kxx074GtVJPVF ix0dufE6vtqZ+THanA09jreB0BIFieFdX6h5/yRiXGNeYk48aZX+te3OZOD06pANqv2j hl5Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ppQ34OZbnbOC2SIPWIhiRxVisDW0xrLrSRf5rEYrZCgUp8j70 6x6Tu8ZQ8ABw/ANnH2Q40yN+YZpBZLBrb77D7m8LYX7z X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxjGkH69lKosi+qX6VSQ9v3qMKJWj6ErOuCP7CoaOoFe/scOVp7p36nJ1mu6ZqaYe3kcLVHZK+eEm0CHGDzB+w= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:3215:: with SMTP id y21mr980336ljy.85.1590432871244; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 11:54:30 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: freebsd-questions Cc: ericbsd@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49W5qY4BVcz4NGb X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=VdIIRe7L; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.07 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; HAS_ATTACHMENT(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT_BOGUS(1.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.335]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FAKE_REPLY(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.918]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.920]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/mixed,text/plain,text/x-log]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::241:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 18:54:34 -0000 Adding the Synth maintainer, Eric. Eric, this all started when I tried to update my Handbook to 12-STABLE. Silly me... Synth crashed it again, but it didn't kill the machine -- I thought. It did run out of swap space. I started installing the ports manually to see what was going on,and it gave me a very interesting response when I tried to 'pkg install graphviz'. It updated the FreeBSD repo successfully, but then it tried to update the Synth repo. I suspect that what happened is that it built a large stack/structure of objects to write to the Synth /var/log directory and blew through all the swap space I had, making a wreck of my install. At least I am getting better at this! ;-] -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 22:06:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 89BAF2CC0B3 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: from mail-qk1-x729.google.com (mail-qk1-x729.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::729]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WB5K5ndSz3Sr7 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jerry@seibercom.net) Received: by mail-qk1-x729.google.com with SMTP id c185so4606296qke.7 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:06:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=seibercom.net; s=google; h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:reply-to :organization:mime-version; bh=BjItdOnz0peKnCzv3JQsZTBV6QRVc62AxLqbd3GHinQ=; b=rJR/lUWDy8tfX35QIpRNvZw50ymMChirAqytRy0zw1MgZ/6KdYrmzLMs+7/MehBHEz MV88thQQtJ0bhjpVEIA1neknaqUXcTaweqsRXltzrSBnI3OX8WfacEzNrzVrOPoGsJ80 /Q/m8MsDi4UuO/hJ/t4lmvpPEvD2AU+LM1gjM= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to :references:reply-to:organization:mime-version; bh=BjItdOnz0peKnCzv3JQsZTBV6QRVc62AxLqbd3GHinQ=; b=Yx3bNJRdpC4IeRby+mluRsAUnrICBV5QyxQdrAkhe3XQ1PVKVIsXJl+H8Y2mn26RNj GxnUyQ27c9u6vD4k4c4h+Jst1xSvg3BVdgH/LHkW2zFD4lGOuIurxxFZors/mXqWVljU atFezMHTMLrtkObxMqQxfKD9HwROu1gp75oY7lntM2Bd94YxyL8RetvDd9prP+toBshe XVh/ixE0pYA5DGo0n0yVjQAOzUIEWTZq2ehNaY3T990ul0J+jcsE1p5QJ1zEzMOwKaQP BVI+c9qr3maVEJ3bcyW/OiGG9H/coiu21CY3zt0ovuWKJiXao/DWx3/DOJy1EWYNBjCC uW7g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532DssKCsaM6oDaintsfkYXEcATW+yYMeQUbILiESLUVaPdHKAEC pgrU3QXTwQghlk6kxD/9KtngdiW5utc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzi5LuQOAGohM32NxZE0N1+XM0gvYIH3zx3gyiAxkE1l+Y7nnGIXuuEVlWNHBFwiPHFgPZlpg== X-Received: by 2002:aed:35af:: with SMTP id c44mr7641413qte.349.1590443984954; Mon, 25 May 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scorpio.seibercom.net (cpe-174-109-225-250.nc.res.rr.com. [174.109.225.250]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id g66sm15644504qkb.122.2020.05.25.14.59.43 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 25 May 2020 14:59:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (hp-envy.seibercom.net [192.168.0.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jerry@seibercom.net) by scorpio.seibercom.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 49W9xC0cTGzc3n for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 17:59:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 17:59:34 -0400 From: Jerry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation Message-ID: <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> In-Reply-To: References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Organization: seibercom.net X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.17.4 (GTK+ 2.24.32; i686-w64-mingw32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; boundary="Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS"; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WB5K5ndSz3Sr7 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=seibercom.net header.s=google header.b=rJR/lUWD; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jerry@seibercom.net designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::729 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jerry@seibercom.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.55 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[seibercom.net:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[174.109.225.250:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_TO_ADDR(5.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.94)[-0.936]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[seibercom.net:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.016]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[seibercom.net]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.10)[0.105]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::729:from]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:06:46 -0000 --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, 25 May 2020 14:31:23 -0400 (EDT), Doug Denault commented: >To that end, I really believe in the thing I read somewhere (maybe >Richie) that the Unix philosophy is "I will not stop you from doing >something incredibly stupid, because that may stop you from doing >something incredibly clever". The PHP project is the exact opsite of >this. "It is not the computer's job to stop you from shotting yourself in the foot, but rather, to deliver the bullet with the utmost accuracy." --=20 Jerry --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCAAdFiEEIQb/tTwl6I1ueEVtOHMGOIfexWQFAl7MP8cACgkQOHMGOIfe xWQA0AgAw/636oBFB232oAbvBwIQRGEuuT0Gfsl9MUd8rqBQqoOldTZwBb2M/CI8 HEMmrr7w5OTnL0OBqirhaj8yb45Rn6j1EZT84YRTYRrWDy6xp0Tl+4w+KZKTLkMQ OG1+lHxHIlGmlStCHmUlDZUB3nVEMa7wd8dbksftsUCwNhxYg1PWWnbzlkQBr4cr Ks+VXLHhZQt7VV4vnYk/BNBYKuEu0JE+gGerWM3MphjCV+z5NYBYxoobVmQAOXBW 1j5Fu2Fed4+sn5HNjajPxd8Ds/EPC2EqXRuCZEFca3U5Ar3j9auysjX7g+YtWDQb 0qK8rNw9tfMX5XdU39RcIKFut13nhQ== =Y4cy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Sig_/uJQo_xxSBGHSM6mU0P3+zjS-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 22:21:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6047D2CCF0F for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x12d.google.com (mail-lf1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WBPr0Wfzz3VHC for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id e125so11216054lfd.1 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=PBQ8KiWOAXLTqzaVub9+iYycOpRL2rn3V741z6UExiI=; b=hqVVBXEsdMnX3OCYDt0JD83WEK8zpkrhM54e5bZOaVPkJ6NiQPojYjbe46bpnUNNtE Iaf2O6pk1Wzy9xBSxVutuWINtY9EDpBtwK0VfmnG3rFpnJnr61a7VuCYGDca58nxZXIB /F8wG9Q679WSaq0jRZBCZzaZzmxwKuNu1ov2KSSWYyxV4LUUEftPs9FkC4RVT81eNqm/ 5huAoC3mxK6NpcS4XwgM9DFZkPCrsy8K7zrH+xMoUqeIOkfW5GccATsY/CTjpsVaCIdO EWnh4Xta0KzVLWZlFsFCmuN2kocnAmvgPqQRiN6vGC7tEYAUbqmA0BZBXg2cMSmNHQlA sirg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=PBQ8KiWOAXLTqzaVub9+iYycOpRL2rn3V741z6UExiI=; b=g8g5SbUM7rc+MOTdNMNz6iAzG4W+pnJr+mkgMTCx2oDHQH6UVCry7IBZXyMsCuZKO9 GgzfQoCEad1rmpmk+2LMvV1Q/Zd2IRnXMVbQiox31RNECEQGvpGbaNZkkyDZbAyOl3TE b1WaAF9vIXyE3v0SpFMgr9FEgAQ/oWiG2ctoVeNG95PvKNXw0Z+I4ZZFJrp9bt21N0jX cF6yWSu+gfZFDBhj9puRbo/lnJyYFxdIYvkiJBdVps6eTvVzPIgP0o67vu4yuckTZVkj jmybdsr3amI3rOBNuaO0G92MqVJ48undA87ghpfubBHfyxesb0FF/UdCuWJV+Nob+Jia GqWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ZPtWHESmMCaDBTjZpZNR3aoqn71rQwy070Gnq/bKAUg61j3v5 f4pxJC8qKPaNKX5raYjqdC/yXvvcIKLLWfkSWwauXZ/y X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxba5AH/nB+hJujODtst7aUXlcyQppgD5UUxL81DiYgM3aUCR5kzMMKTr/FXObVWBH0R7LvQw/MrPfsvVa5PD4= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c88e:: with SMTP id y136mr15873703lff.78.1590445260685; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:ab3:6742:0:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> References: <20200523100200.04579e5d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200525175934.00006d04@seibercom.net> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 15:21:00 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: updating a FreeBSD workstation To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WBPr0Wfzz3VHC X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 22:21:04 -0000 > "It is not the computer's job to stop you from shooting yourself in the > foot, but rather, to deliver the bullet with the utmost accuracy." -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 23:30:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D159B2CE768 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x841.google.com (mail-qt1-x841.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::841]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WCxT1t83z3c79 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kudzu@tenebras.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x841.google.com with SMTP id o19so14818329qtr.10 for ; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:30:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Yu5n0c7RomJy5ZPkat6Rawyxnqr2nngu6u96jEh9V9I=; b=jxqjeobGXYAZiWgsa9fijpfGV+ZSbqTB+LxtUuQUQvVyJwAcYa+9k0wZZjrH5rZsmV 7ZEGsY9Y+v0I7EUGHBNBEU5zqSKuSO3/zvjon22Z0wfwsYnM5g6Uq7ODJYIp2u58vTr6 FgnWbMvE6NDfUj/cGnVYBMoCRIQuOVmbmv7F353LggtFIfOgxt5QvfIkVAUJBITZ1jC6 xPaJwbp3wT4kMjeN/ALK2WETVayYwwParmeZgnxh3us+8y2TqPK/V/6LFn8SS/EzGmeE ogoYOdDfb0PCCYhW37R+SaidV3T0MSHQAjWfmON8dsUgirjWWY5s/UDvo13oAaPE0Tay KR8g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Yu5n0c7RomJy5ZPkat6Rawyxnqr2nngu6u96jEh9V9I=; b=FFdlfDF0Rm8XZg5MhSJu+egjAp9LfQh7cD18GQEwCvXtBd/8MkmFp9/N2W0Uz3B6S+ JfoQVb4QZC+Mn9eyhDo/8KgK4+M5hLmpYQPmszxd0LLVbC3AhLicEKeVjPyHwyQETsWa C/cxsmq1VvWYjjRReG1gIagJogLuiBd3oOASGlZgK2yRHNThg1xyI0Zci48AALGzEu4e dJxc1MB4ddDCJt9DbQ+aoOIIOm2A3aHtaBBZTitQv871xtA6Wk71Z88NBg1tJgHliXcC aayB+KYLoCUkkCdxY6x33VnduIMZjOi6yoUuPuopO9VXt2moXk68BkUVJ2V6r4u4YA5N NaRw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5318jq7d0IQ3OXyIji8P9TLtAdYLRhKI95W7fXgB7MuukPONzx4d OxhujeB4OcWRooAGJDeIGPD3s05IH+dg8Kzgo/6XJw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxWWwscO1xw5/s+v1Hl4kdeFxGVIw+BO09+4d/fsoTjJFVuEoUMrV53KXjFJwpk1NhKN4VqQqtZjc4DlnWJvvM= X-Received: by 2002:aed:27c7:: with SMTP id m7mr10661930qtg.138.1590449404372; Mon, 25 May 2020 16:30:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Michael Sierchio Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:29:28 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: dwilde1@gmail.com Cc: Polytropon , David Christensen , FreeBSD Questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WCxT1t83z3c79 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=jxqjeobG; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of kudzu@tenebras.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::841) smtp.mailfrom=kudzu@tenebras.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.960]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.020]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[tenebras.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[tenebras-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.23)[-0.226]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::841:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 23:30:05 -0000 This is way more complex than what you need, edit away. I've never observed this to fail. I avoid UEFI boot unless it's unavoidable. I've never observed it to fail, and I use it to build EC2 instances where I have no console access. It might seem that there are a lot of partitions, but I build security appliances. #!/bin/sh PATH=3D/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin DISK=3D"$1" BOOTSIZ=3D"128k" ROOTSIZ=3D"1GB" SWAPSIZ=3D"1GB" TMPSIZ=3D"1GB" VARSIZ=3D"2GB" # Why have a separate /var/tmp partition? Security. # world-writable directories (with mode 041777) should be noexec,nosuid VARTMPSIZ=3D"1GB" # you really want this to be unique for each disk PFX=3D"XG55qAUrKwbPR" ###########################################################################= ##### # Partition Disk ###########################################################################= ##### # delete any partition data already on disk offset=3D`diskinfo $DISK | awk '{ print $4 - 128 }'` dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/$DISK bs=3D${BOOTSIZ} count=3D1 dd if=3D/dev/zero of=3D/dev/$DISK seek=3D$offset # create partition table gpart create -s gpt ${DISK} # add boot partition # p1 gpart add -t freebsd-boot -l $PFX-boot -s ${BOOTSIZ} ${DISK} # put boot code in boot partition gpart bootcode -b /boot/pmbr -p /boot/gptboot -i 1 ${DISK} # add root, make sectors aligned # p2 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-root -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${ROOTSIZ} ${DISK} # add swap # p3 gpart add -t freebsd-swap -l $PFX-swap -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${SWAPSIZ} ${DISK} # add tmp # p4 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-tmp -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${TMPSIZ} ${DISK} # add var # p5 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-var -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${VARSIZ} ${DISK} # add vartmp # p6 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-vartmp -a ${BOOTSIZ} -s ${VARTMPSIZ} ${DISK} # add usr (remainder of disk) # p7 gpart add -t freebsd-ufs -l $PFX-usr -a ${BOOTSIZ} ${DISK} ###########################################################################= ##### # make filesystems, mount points, mount all ###########################################################################= ##### echo "making filesystems..." # make filesystems, no softupdates on root newfs /dev/${DISK}p2 echo "mounting filesystems..." mkdir -p /mnt mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p2 /mnt mkdir -p /mnt/tmp /mnt/var /mnt/usr chmod a+rwxt /mnt/tmp newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p4 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p5 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p6 newfs -U /dev/${DISK}p7 mount -o rw,nosuid,noexec /dev/${DISK}p4 /mnt/tmp mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p5 /mnt/var mount -o rw,noatime /dev/${DISK}p7 /mnt/usr mkdir -p /mnt/var/tmp mount -o rw,nosuid,noexec /dev/${DISK}p6 /mnt/var/tmp chmod a+rwxt /mnt/tmp /mnt/var/tmp tar -xf /usr/local/src/base.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/kernel.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/lib32.txz -C /mnt tar -xf /usr/local/src/src.txz -C /mnt cat < /mnt/etc/fstab /dev/gpt/${PFX}-root / ufs rw,noatime 1 1 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-swap.eli none swap sw 0 0 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-tmp /tmp ufs rw,noexec,nosuid 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-var /var ufs rw,noatime 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-vartmp /var/tmp ufs rw,noexec,nosuid 2 2 /dev/gpt/${PFX}-usr /usr ufs rw,noatime 2 2 EOF cat < /mnt/etc/rc.conf fsck_y_enable=3D"YES" background_fsck=3D"YES" background_fsck_delay=3D"60" hostname=3D"name-me" # this nonsense is because I don't know what instance type I am yet # one is guaranteed to fail, the other, to succeed network_interfaces=3D"lo0 xn0 ena0 eth0 enc0" ifconfig_xn0=3D"name eth0" ifconfig_ena0=3D"name eth0" ifconfig_eth0=3D"SYNCDHCP" # do what you like here sshd_enable=3D"YES" syslogd_enable=3D"YES" syslogd_flags=3D"-sCcc" service_enable=3D"YES" firewall_enable=3D"NO" EOFF On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 9:03 AM Donald Wilde wrote: > > Sometimes a specific combination of > > > > { GPT | MBR | dedicated } x { BIOS | UEFI } > > > > can cause problems. It _should_ not, though. > > You would think, wouldn't you? When I enabled UEFI, it promptly > ignored everything except my NICs so that was out. Using Legacy BIOS > it successfully built and allowed access to my system but only with > MBR-format file system. No GPT worked, at least with > partitioning. > > > > I did have a glitch that led to a recursive stack crash, though, > > > forcing a reinstall. Updating the Handbook required me to build both > > > graphviz and vala, but neither of them would work without already > > > having a graphviz and vala on the system. Install with 'pkg install' > > > worked. > > > > It would be very strange if there was a "cyclic dependency" > > for those ports... however, using "pkg install" solves most > > problems with ports. :-) > > As I say, /usr/ports/misc/freebsd-doc-en did me in. Corrupted the > whole system. Anybody else want to play guinea pig? > > Steps to reproduce: > > 1) Update to 12-STABLE from 12.1R > 2) Update the Handbook installation (without first installing > dependencies graphics/graphviz and lang/vala) > > Reminded me of how much a 'learning experience' FreeBSD is... This > port is such an amazing, layered set of dependencies it is starkly > amazing that it can be made to work at all. > > Vala? WT[DELETED] is vala? I had to look it up! :) > > The flexibility of FreeBSD can be tiresome at times but that > configurability will come to my rescue at some point. > > Game on, and again, thanks for all the advice! :D > > -- > Don Wilde > **************************************************** > * What is the Internet of Things but a system * > * of systems including humans? * > **************************************************** > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool is = no wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred." - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon May 25 23:46:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEAB62CF081 for ; 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Mon, 25 May 2020 16:46:53 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Donald Wilde Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 16:46:53 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: Michael Sierchio Cc: Polytropon , David Christensen , FreeBSD Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WDJw6DTQz3d7R X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=SJOgs0b4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::234 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.70 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.72)[-0.725]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.971]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.005]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::234:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 May 2020 23:46:57 -0000 On 5/25/20, Michael Sierchio wrote: > This is way more complex than what you need, edit away. I've never > observed this to fail. I avoid UEFI boot unless it's unavoidable. > > I've never observed it to fail, and I use it to build EC2 instances where= I > have no console access. It might seem that there are a lot of partitions= , > but I build security appliances. > Michael, this is very much worth my study, even if I might not be implementing all of it. I suspect that Cisco "Security Appliances" have very little on you outside of hardware tweaks. When I worked for Intel, they had a bunch of security code tweaks above and beyond their secure boot functionality. These had to do with the shadow processor built into every x86 and the code had a Chinese name that escapes me... something about flowers. Are you familiar with these? > #!/bin/sh > PATH=3D/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin [snip] > "Well," Brahm=C4=81 said, "even after ten thousand explanations, a fool i= s no > wiser, but an intelligent person requires only two thousand five hundred.= " > > - The Mah=C4=81bh=C4=81rata > --=20 Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * **************************************************** From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 06:08:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C56832F2A02 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 06:08:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from idefix@fechner.net) Received: from anny.lostinspace.de (anny.lostinspace.de [IPv6:2001:608:a02::33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WNn54ZY0z4SCY for ; 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Tue, 26 May 2020 08:08:18 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Matthias Fechner Autocrypt: addr=idefix@fechner.net; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= xsFNBFqca1YBEADM9mF2+ifk8HILTlf5wtAzV6SYVR4RvNOo/8Kucw4sCZT76zS1fjZe4Zy1 3C0IZ07Wi+3PnoGIgOCsXp3PrTc2nuHQWkwVBYXy8UaR9DHBWA/mIvRGG1ZscKQYA6oUdCvd K8Mu26zO60yTt+ONzFtK6G1myH4EHXZ8dpmdCFf+W3rzTU+aCQ5S3OfwCLGgYgOaVREGkdOc 5SVCpFb4n+2B8+CqeWsRHhnT+4h7/YhgDMGp4GiI3yrB2nBVSUUvcosD2nRtJQgGQHcAFtMq 3hJaKPOR/mHc6KVrp0xmGNmdtazvXloHmGIl9O1UpmMmrYu9Kugl0JkGi2fAcno02XgVlkyX 7xDLTteP5cNqRxor4yVDaRWUQnOfK9XgcrKGrAzb65BkCSkjT+Aw3S/A8Qd6NvjL9qy1d+Ct dzatOVF/Y7jaW28CMr3jvwPS13OxV7PnJzIZzdik20eVxfOXuYfxZD+PwBaGgFF0qj6zKACC aKLalE0ZpY0zNn/iPyQX/Cf9KoDyFpOHSsEswiJ5rCWwppVcsFyogHOemVmeaXlvyDPEipnV ZUkpGP/CCqPu3eD0uDzP7UJ0pt/l/JfW0Xw/4p9mjB024xiRlxLa6vSRfGl//EdtAIbKKa8x 5wsKTQEbYJDmXE3tH/A54DCqRXhcopTlu2iJlTdnIMltn9afVwARAQABzSVNYXR0aGlhcyBG ZWNobmVyIDxpZGVmaXhAZmVjaG5lci5uZXQ+wsGuBBMBCgBBAhsDBQkJZgGABQsJCAcDBRUK CQgLBRYDAgEAAh4BAheAFiEEaWB64mCp804YOtqutot13J/XR+EFAlqcc9gCGQEAIQkQtot1 3J/XR+EWIQRpYHriYKnzThg62q62i3Xcn9dH4ZDKEADAPFRKDtfZpLV3quthRl0OTytPlMKN rIMDI4BN0BSElFmTypdE0Xbsy7rGI5OYi8QwotqA2yK199mzWD+a6VFCINUuWgZq/vGjNJ9i Vo5hak9vnnCmy6BA8tnPQ6RT23PDuPvuw8++cDF6pKh9QnNB1nOnjdpXBdWqwnetjSMbNgDl EtLoIEjVFFHz+EcszGykM+Xv0hbcaEgcBdpVfUdUkDagkSj1j3kOcnBfw1X6G8uVRUDYoN00 oWJUkp5XdxyrD7/nNbdjwnpF3xuVb2enrxnuXLG3qa+wMR1LE7IZKQ9qDMgN8eqYN+Rp66bu AczDB4fZ7alm6HMxmSso2hKQqInm6KbrfxmGfPOYRaHaq1g+AeVkbWM7qfYNLMKomRBiNhS0 uPvKUiBlqQbwzeJ1BG6AciYwGr4dIy5ZHwUjnaCHX7gtsgCscHhhZNOv3fcSXCFLWO2iYr1J 5Z7M9+O6enGpdCXhBHSpcC6CWw4wnrJOiBvqVzSrIR05rlUJdBMtIP3JmmiVJA6M57VcTIzi Dm/sWs8EZWeL0DGUBG9QNVthAO/X7gCByG2CkuYAXyYM+r+0Z5e4A7eb4TFANekngKd4j1gd z6OhTZxdCLkw/U3OAw5XjdcRkKJNbQ4FYzX7znuCYOoZvJsTsXdQWm8Gz381Fae7GgppjFhu oI5zec7BTQRanGtWARAA3e4IsdkX7VWByvNiPAvXAAnCNhvtSccq81h1oEqBbSfQ1N9pMIsf Edg87w2VXX6U1y1J5ct6JamYTWUIMer/77ncQnfg6xF3+fbjo9218h+W0wvve2yarpL3NPJ7 bO/suyYTuOBQFpqxu/SpItLJs5S+RHGPfEG4r1iaD9ldoQ06HHAhDqhCg0uDd6uz23leXg1U rqDPNnY51Mae5RWFCaLits/ThHQYkWEC0YsBhQLGVdVmF08CziplqgAQ/mdb+7YzLNJoii7B wQh220CI9l2smv5rg4YrPzxKfrOopJq7JQAOBf4by0pQ42Blt/PhJJG+WKc6DJTZHLJ81L3v uv9h9ocf6gDGDfXJRY+0P+vJ9XDr1sa8rxFCtn35zW/JYEAGhA6Hn4kdb8AT1ePl1Bq0R9aY Y7f78VGjZMiGplBdeXw9b6O0SOSGA4c5RfkRHNKbqcJw8jD4tSQQg1wtz1vDh+/V45Yh0G4J yQYzitZeQthuqF1LN1Z4KwLS2JCTzHs7XNdEk4oXishMl3+pffbYQfb0FH5P1XUfDssNJF77 djG2heFE5lFeMXxCeIQd4pU1FQKiavqtYaa4eOw1NDu3C3CcbzFI58KRgCn0atvMGQhhf5UW 8VAupUz4i3dECWB79vClk++SvdsWwmTglL4QC6AEis/TF30Ew6HoSPkAEQEAAcLBkwQYAQoA JhYhBGlgeuJgqfNOGDrarraLddyf10fhBQJanGtWAhsMBQkJZgGAACEJELaLddyf10fhFiEE aWB64mCp804YOtqutot13J/XR+GWbBAAqECNdPYbaYVXtgEISe8Lj6PKSK0hQNDG9KX4m1/7 GMPGWc/8d3LUyNwI6tm2kmqHmyLlMneqDyO3AM4C+LNsx4mdwoR9nQ8SZTj35DmoitduAyTD 6lolrsXt/bYKtt7bD4cHLxfgwvkpCaC1igmDQtOn0t2y5LWdLOJVRObany+cMDL8YMQfuvrF h8GVkr9SMAf4HqL+s5BIVXZF6qxjxOdi8i31NAAjJooXJdP56bAjGUpbNLq4HgrDzLhz0J5n DNhEW3q3vIvTnSkA8xga021pfQ8TUX+KPnAGIqxCTNynPmQ9khN+G00r4N5HUEGUG4/qPgUX LEdC2hmzkZDWjGZaeTrl7Xi+pxu7GwD59G41FJbqfAiRFw1xDRuiyRtf6FVhaptzrT8q+VKD EALobhsdPzpugFyq/5pPr3rqCljF5KpZdOOf22BO219gNIJMhhOQ3Y2ohz5kvTbFrig3hMS5 V2Ti9Rl/jyo1iwA8Jb9O1xwfB3+lNP5aX9/5oIEbah8imx7dIkamGjAveYFXTK27oMYetVP8 8SGsHlO1aJQ+XEa5bcaj6ebMzsA88ONiWMG6WLFxSVzZLghgpitSx3EoXxIILX1d4PySs7zU UJ+qdX9H66aZf3meVL1lSqzRESc3GYJDnnMcIivy/yaBqRn1jqlhrE8XvwJ0HF8Y/A8= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 08:08:17 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; 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NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.013]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.31)[0.314]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[2001:608:a02::33:from]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fechner.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[fechner.net,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5539, ipnet:2001:608::/32, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[156.67.131.71:received] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 06:08:26 -0000 Am 26.05.2020 um 01:29 schrieb Michael Sierchio: > cat < /mnt/etc/rc.conf > fsck_y_enable="YES" > background_fsck="YES" > background_fsck_delay="60" thanks a lot for this script, very interesting! Here you could also use: sysrc -f /mnt/etc/rc.conf fsck_y_enable="YES" Has the advantage to not wipe the existing file, but only add/modify the keys you would like to touch. This is maybe more future proof. Gruß Matthias -- "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the universe is winning." -- Rich Cook From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 10:19:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B183D2F8A03 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 10:19:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WVMJ23HKz3bY1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 10:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.22.204]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MQuPJ-1jPzsl0bBP-00Nwhy; Tue, 26 May 2020 12:19:52 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 12:19:51 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Matthias Fechner Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: installation of 12.1R and 11.3R fails Message-Id: <20200526121951.d239e337.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200525110946.dd7440ac.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:6b51OluA1xQdj+Mw06pzPc0WQX0eR0TvQAHHQOZcSnYG+UIlwR8 9/j8QNdC7Q316nu4N7l4LNsNOt+0UYo5nP1h2h5sAhjfmmEeyzYnAee5Lq1yqXmx6F8nKZU Tu5bE4Zhlai5DqOIr6UggmHyuox4ExJ/HWlU5wiNjg/kAraedwqQnjFnfrGrJ9xCWIB9k98 Q7egxVIW64ZazVcU1uHPg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:w/motju55ng=:FDTolsT3QZWjJ2dPd5wBQy 3nP8CQ5+hAOmTLIh1dYzw4QBmOtkxTKGTG18rhJzBSnZ8+7M2YVOBUNo8wtSHgioVQWSNvsBB F9N2giNvg8MO+OZO1D4GHEBsGDcSt2oWYIrHkKsX6fRIHSOkGLT7/m7FAE89apvYyKm67cSFb zA/kLCH3jaOqgXv9byOoQhr9bzY8Q+wD9CoqmomBcJMRuN4UgEd9/PP+QeufJFb2BnEDSUl3z eqKi96zpTd+cMSEYkr1CmQ4rY+PI0jUdqGfHTEsLONJ3GeVgalCV5FoGsq/eIseNNIjP3xrZz urqgAxdslCrCbEFm08iDX6AlCel8a6GpO77uOkPW42nwGC2oxxdEjEIEUiU1CEW9cDzzA0fb6 j5mDlIB0Cw5L0+Zi4AY09EEG3C4c9xtP2kuebYBl0+ByAZ7Kuk4vXDEFbaanLl3Ktwv/Do+Zj +3iXXpJMN7eahwJYUnFtylqWTv0ig/ToViPLlAbI8i/psvEpX8k3SNaCJW/WVfMsb4/vfubFb nRMFBdBoGR60W6aJZCHAEZbuwYfC7XxwqUCTkNdq3lei2rgYYfGLAK8dOYmtTi1FAqn2MPiAW aM0RnpfZzTVA4a/lnEWhemEbdGUCZoHSiZ3VwxQo95/EIZSRdhI/IXGHS07mfWI9Q0a9Wm1rg f8hjlaeIdGeNIsJ7GWFcZAD+E8ZQ4C3c09+f7tS17zroD841wH5f+MWeLg8i6l4B4/8uqsf2M /j6nmCo3pyGdHHTdbdttfVEQIl04j3OdcNyUDfgkYO2dV+ALkqZjDVDRSHLPQacMi5zqvFsRk QMkw1HJ8dM0OFY24pa5LM/L/19NJRIVmXUTKLsQde9+AJXWtF/d9snecUEb9D33HOBtupe8 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WVMJ23HKz3bY1 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.73) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.05 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.48)[-0.477]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.22.204:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.74)[-0.740]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.86)[0.862]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[217.72.192.73:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[217.72.192.73:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 10:19:57 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 08:08:17 +0200, Matthias Fechner wrote: > Am 26.05.2020 um 01:29 schrieb Michael Sierchio: > > cat < /mnt/etc/rc.conf > > fsck_y_enable="YES" > > background_fsck="YES" > > background_fsck_delay="60" > > thanks a lot for this script, very interesting! > > Here you could also use: > sysrc -f /mnt/etc/rc.conf fsck_y_enable="YES" > > Has the advantage to not wipe the existing file, but only add/modify the > keys you would like to touch. > This is maybe more future proof. Allow me a little addition: The setting background_fsck="YES" is something I try to avoid at all costs, because it often leads to "problems of unclear reason", i. e., filesystem inconsistencies that you won't immediately recognize as such, but they are present and lead to strange program behaviour. That's why personally I absolutely prefer background_fsck="NO" and have the system perform a filesystem check and repair if needed, because _if_ the system issues such a process, it does so for a good reason, and performing this process, if needed even twice, makes sure your system's data is clean and healthy. In my experience, the background_fsck will not be able to deliver this in every case. Sure, this comes at a certain price (boot takes longer), but if the integrity of your data is considered, why not? :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 13:49:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135702FEC74 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 13:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) Received: from pmta21.teksavvy.com (pmta21.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.teksavvy.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Wb0T5xtJz4BZ5 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 13:48:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) IronPort-SDR: gvw1gdb4yHtPmFdKsDoEPZSdAAPeRmCoE/KW68YHMGgtSnujCSiL7NoYfArHeagmv359hjoUlo wnAEUH+orL/g== X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HtCgBxHc1e/0StpUVmHgEBCxIMQII?= =?us-ascii?q?kgU8vQ1EBIBKEUYkBhXlNAQEBAQEBBQGBM4N3h1SQHwsBAQEOExwEAQGGUyc?= =?us-ascii?q?4EwIDAQELAQEBBQEBAQEBBQQCAmmFCliGcRUeWAImAl8NCAEBgyKCWCWeII8?= =?us-ascii?q?GgTKKTxN7Ko1XgQeBOIsJgmAEmTWZcAgCglSYViOCUgGNc408hQapRgyBaSO?= =?us-ascii?q?BVh9cgy9PGA2fJCUDZwIGCAEBAwmNVQEB?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2HtCgBxHc1e/0StpUVmHgEBCxIMQIIkgU8vQ1EBIBKEU?= =?us-ascii?q?YkBhXlNAQEBAQEBBQGBM4N3h1SQHwsBAQEOExwEAQGGUyc4EwIDAQELAQEBB?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBBQQCAmmFCliGcRUeWAImAl8NCAEBgyKCWCWeII8GgTKKTxN7Ko1Xg?= =?us-ascii?q?QeBOIsJgmAEmTWZcAgCglSYViOCUgGNc408hQapRgyBaSOBVh9cgy9PGA2fJ?= =?us-ascii?q?CUDZwIGCAEBAwmNVQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,437,1583211600"; d="scan'208";a="133537411" Received: from 69-165-173-68.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO mail.razorfever.net) ([69.165.173.68]) by smtp12.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 26 May 2020 09:48:56 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4]) by mail.razorfever.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04QDmta1057426 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:48:55 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.razorfever.net: Host mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] From: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Subject: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: FreeBSD Mailing List Message-ID: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 09:48:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mail.razorfever.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wb0T5xtJz4BZ5 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 482254ac@razorfever.net has no SPF policy when checking 76.10.157.36) smtp.mailfrom=482254ac@razorfever.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.73 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.28)[-0.281]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.18)[0.177]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[razorfever.net]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.03)[0.030]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5645, ipnet:76.10.128.0/19, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[76.10.157.36:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 13:49:00 -0000 Hiya, After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces for certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm finding the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports this option. What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the feature from OpenBSD? Thanks! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 14:42:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 02D112C90F7 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:42:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from smh-06.1blu.de (smh-06.1blu.de [178.254.0.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WcB46Dz3z4H8F for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:42:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from guru@unixarea.de) Received: from [172.16.29.5] (helo=sh4-5.1blu.de) by smh-06.1blu.de with esmtp (Exim 4.86_2) (envelope-from ) id 1jdatE-00033z-4D for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:49:12 +0200 Received: from ftp51246-2575596 by sh4-5.1blu.de with local (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jdamX-0008Hv-9c for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:17 +0200 Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:17 +0200 From: Matthias Apitz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Linux command 'watch' Message-ID: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> Reply-To: Matthias Apitz Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 12.0-CURRENT r314251 (amd64) X-message-flag: Mails containing HTML will not be read! Please send only plain text. User-Agent: Mutt/1.9.4 (2018-02-28) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WcB46Dz3z4H8F X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of guru@unixarea.de has no SPF policy when checking 178.254.0.206) smtp.mailfrom=guru@unixarea.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.89 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[guru@unixarea.de]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.44)[0.443]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[unixarea.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.73)[0.726]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.92)[0.916]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42730, ipnet:178.254.0.0/19, country:DE]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[178.254.0.206:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:42:22 -0000 Hello, On my Ubuntu mobile phone I'm used to use a command 'watch' in its terminal app in this way, for example: $ watch -n 1 date This does every second: clears the screen, launches date and prints its STDOUT into the terminal. Due to the clear of the screen, the output of date stays in the same position and only the part of the seconds is counting upwards. I got to know and to use it, because the Ubuntu phone lacks a digital clock app showing the seconds. The FreeBSD watch(1) command does other things, nothing todo with the above. Do we have something similar? Ofc I could write this as a shell loop, so please don't give me such hints :-) matthias -- Matthias Apitz, ✉ guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-176-38902045 Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub May, 9: СпаÑиÌбо оÑвободители! Thank you very much, Russian liberators! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 14:51:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91C152C998B for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:51:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: from mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com (mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WcP95bKcz4HfP for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:51:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fernando.apesteguia@gmail.com) Received: by mail-vs1-xe2e.google.com with SMTP id v26so11964662vsa.1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:51:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=B00Otzbx5SOhAFm9qwLqbTg+Mq6e6fbD9CpJaHqTiSY=; b=BRnr9RYttuBRncyHDIREqI+ia4j5ftp1F1oERZV1fCoo/7Wlidc12gyIj/I6UVaTVX qUxXls5W5qr6wxnr+ZNyEQDRCjrtBi5vWc/8YQkg93+qF/Kg0mVEfLVs85HtPfdVb6K+ E308TQGTvDRzqj5ksmVElbMs28g4hV9eWXK/62nunXR5jRGfGtp6WEPT7i9fTAdIzjB7 4l9hb2pHKm3xRsEAOfE6rYE89VwYv6qRu5gBVfxhnwYO4M4+5k7WEqJCy3SffSnn6m+A p8hKBBAjkOGAWvjZbxnV0ZR/SOpNzvM1Zvzcg++eiiqAVu2euXWizobvNx2MnpasE4SY 3K5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=B00Otzbx5SOhAFm9qwLqbTg+Mq6e6fbD9CpJaHqTiSY=; b=laqyOr2OMKb9tq6BH7BhQE74uSI4D1nT1xcsyBT1H8BlHbL5xzrXPlU01oYuQE1NTY TNdy8IIBw3TUAioJ/njE4Ea2ueq3MI5LuCzaTe319f0QxX6BDRAkknsmvf06HvCRiCYh /zYxtpt8bryXI/WSOdSPXp9IYL5RmhUF9CEWZsj/+woxrsDTnlJ1b2qp1A62H3Btj5I9 glMnzK9hgmYVhW/8HuNHcj4LZanvX/Ehr5wRVBpH/1nIieeUYEnmsb9rNyvjnCsfsM5p KdhpvgZmOqIW+BoT3EA4CEiquNsQPCTor6yHCpuiq1Gs7jUOjbCkBikwQrku39FSD52y CEQg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533hJXKiVnZH3gigCs2OSPUBHa8MJ/+pjZ9zduqaBgw/5rMbe/Qw p2POGuQC8LRnkShW7A3JfxyN9a7Fptr7FvsPT36f2fE4 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy9PIiA4hW3/jD0Mg8JupAw8G70LfDw7ez399u9TSgzY7Qr4vrW7fa37+I13+KWe8FMUO5t8dy8fM/fgSdD2xw= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6102:201b:: with SMTP id p27mr1257604vsr.101.1590504715989; Tue, 26 May 2020 07:51:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> In-Reply-To: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> From: =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=C3=ADa?= Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:51:38 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Linux command 'watch' To: Matthias Apitz , User Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WcP95bKcz4HfP X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=BRnr9RYt; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of fernandoapesteguia@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=fernandoapesteguia@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.34 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.009]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::e2e:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.18)[-1.176]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.83)[subject]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:51:58 -0000 On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:42 PM Matthias Apitz wrote: > > > Hello, > > On my Ubuntu mobile phone I'm used to use a command 'watch' in its > terminal app in this way, for example: > > $ watch -n 1 date > > This does every second: clears the screen, launches date and prints its > STDOUT into the terminal. Due to the clear of the screen, the output of > date stays in the same position and only the part of the seconds is count= ing > upwards. I got to know and to use it, because the Ubuntu phone lacks a > digital clock app showing the seconds. > > The FreeBSD watch(1) command does other things, nothing todo with the abo= ve. > > Do we have something similar? Ofc I could write this as a shell loop, so > please don't give me such hints :-) /usr/ports/misc/gnu-watch Cheers > > matthias > > -- > Matthias Apitz, =E2=9C=89 guru@unixarea.de, http://www.unixarea.de/ +49-1= 76-38902045 > Public GnuPG key: http://www.unixarea.de/key.pub > May, 9: =D0=A1=D0=BF=D0=B0=D1=81=D0=B8=CC=81=D0=B1=D0=BE =D0=BE=D1=81=D0= =B2=D0=BE=D0=B1=D0=BE=D0=B4=D0=B8=D1=82=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B8! Thank you very m= uch, Russian liberators! > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 15:00:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8587B2CA1F7 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WcbZ2z04z4JKw for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 44E212FAC9 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:00:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from PD0786.local (130.31-255-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.255.31.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AB3891B1B9 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:00:55 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/AB3891B1B9; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: Linux command 'watch' To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> From: matthew@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <45b634eb-8374-bf75-5bc6-8bbe9115691e@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:00:54 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 15:00:58 -0000 On 26/05/2020 16:51, Fernando Apesteguía wrote: >> The FreeBSD watch(1) command does other things, nothing todo with the above. >> >> Do we have something similar? Ofc I could write this as a shell loop, so >> please don't give me such hints :-) > /usr/ports/misc/gnu-watch Or sysutils/cmdwatch Not entirely sure of the point in having two fairly small utilities to do exactly the same thing. Cheers, Matthew From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 15:08:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 044612CA499 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:08:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Wcmc4vJwz4KCs for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:08:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: _Tx0vgEVM1nikgqMM6OErcKyh7qQEYoQ5bs7o5Hb8TGNSXpNSmmjyy.JRhMtRll V9Z0.JLhV8nGARk77jhaVXqPrGl5iLJ9EkTMjkE.F6FJpd0BAT7anrPLOka0x3ajuUPgB_FIO0KV qOaBwS5w.5vY8cdu9PWtrJiAtHQ88t63Bu_FzoVHXv3pUD7CA.GCSSQG6scAiCDX5xHzyC2G29A2 bZ8z91ZuvAhgvSjVCqDQd4qeubjjKJo_Z63aHwxPVcNdEkx3kNMKDfU4DEE2kLY.hodPkkKQhCOC 5S_pWGMblEO5.f8lTdOXzehEQr_Ch5O_8HFB1RWxlH.oNzekeSOMIQd_ezYKWbpLMiSbRjANy_L7 wcZVAJY7NbgrtWhvoxva.VfnpixqbH6lzoPVT.Wl.TLccBbR5OGXZiYm4UlU_pzLxalWPhTwn4Ws mcNKnmvpV_XvqviNJ8XHEVxukGFv6nE943rlEbQJhwIcltrXwA.irG4Fazd9qZ9B46t42bJnSZil CRW7LByMAlalEx9Nvqk9.ee70kv0L50J7TzwF9.BY4dRnbNbpjwE134kwa0IjMHDIXyCXZGyt6sO DOIG9IX4Mthq4MZIzn3H3t8yOWEFNanCXO1Vy2TpU829dimYk1QcnBb0IsrZ1U9G62Kdq6SdROt3 kQkWihjplxGJDz2sStRXsW_kjqtn9ryQ2IkRt4J55fBi4XLg8xok4NfHqcwVyD088wtu4IamsV.k sCa_c7aY6fyduZbLIxu9bVRWe6NMDfTYi0Hcn3poDlZpO2niDkLkxNtKS1zksYkauOsHZqb6doII bZD28NSOaT4c5q1D93C5VSd6.61p1TWUW9nUm4RQERM3X8WaqA2CvLt.x.m5F7W0udL6A1V.YsZL owcq1XCHKdehWA.eCGZ3kwH8HSXh_egsEYu8JIZOO5.KvlhQNMh47gIiZL53YwslMpq09CfVIO8e 02WpGHttBq6vuCdgpD0cLW1Mzp_Kcwxk6sR5rBD5pwV8Phiogzj80VcA6tWghf2E9ymJfla0Ft_7 t67yio0j8931ykzYrCIuMUfbi9WSWRXIDetH3LZwWh49DUVQhvEtTqHOkjoNmE0brcxHepIhbIFB ZmjhJrbwHEgHwXktsLbaRhUAYG1ijFzr9qCvapEEQ2mYu0aGoOPrmsPo_S5IvRh4dVkc_wSe52kk sCoBffXGW2jW7mTiXENhijwF44fxZKI1LOgy6uuEE_7pm3njh8d1TbIfO1sUW3t3bTfbvL8WO_tH 6z4eBmMJBCJDHpuEE7m5w9GetEs3lHbya0Dl4x2sYx09iuXx6S.E7fjp7yS.5OXqa6vdKCiQqB6X jg7h2eooqshnEZmzZLP3wtnEAdShs4hVjTDZ8SraOmsXBd6WCUReZkqguMc0wZHK1MuSdBcIVtP7 n4PYHHhKOjBEMdtdkCmTBvA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:08:47 +0000 Received: by smtp414.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 57aa1e6a21a3dd284f5f87d2a4938cef; Tue, 26 May 2020 15:08:46 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pj1-f48.google.com with SMTP id ci23so1451663pjb.5 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 08:08:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5316Poa8q5M2MVGrvUhdRVQy5R/ZPMCZ2Z2RRteR4fH0AtKNMumw Ii4uleLCiNLqIAKipne+fzYn9HrU8jR8NUQ62qY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxmiLG46NxINs8nGw7v/ZBdLpHH0lY8bsWadpUmb/CSB7ukcL/ZiT8pUILRdCjtmJpwzUBrhZ5Z3XThaA1rU1E= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:7596:: with SMTP id j22mr1466560pll.226.1590505725768; Tue, 26 May 2020 08:08:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> In-Reply-To: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:08:29 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15960 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wcmc4vJwz4KCs X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.18 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.974]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.185.31:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.53)[-1.528]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.185.31:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 15:08:50 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > Hiya, > > After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces for > certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm finding > the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports this > option. > > What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? > > Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > feature from OpenBSD? What version of vi is on OpenBSD 6.7? On my 6.6 [Version 1.79 (10/23/96)] the expandtab is not available, but on NetBSD 9.0 [Version (1.81.6-2013-11-20nb4], it is. Be careful importing features from the 1.xx branch to the 2.x.x., the one in FreeBSD. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:17:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E250B2CCAF1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:17:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) Received: from pmta11.teksavvy.com (pmta11.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.teksavvy.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WfHT6ngCz4T1q for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:17:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) IronPort-SDR: Kbpha0cEwl6pn21X7Wf4J4EGUyvIpNtKtgTu9Imf7ZVdkqqbwYqXvVXPc/+VL08nRext5srSV0 TU4373HhiyRg== X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2FyBAAfQM1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgUddgU8vQ1EBIBIshCWJAYV7TQEBAQEBAQUBgRIhBINzl3M?= =?us-ascii?q?LAQEBDi8EAQGERAKCDSc4EwIDAQELAQEBBQEBAQEBBQQCAmmFCliGSAEFIxU?= =?us-ascii?q?eIxALGAICJgICVxMGAgEBgyKCWCWuToEyimgTeyqNV4EHgTgMgl0+hRuCR4J?= =?us-ascii?q?gBJk1mXAIAoJUmFYjglKNdI08hQapRgyBaSOBVh9cgy5QGA2fJCUDMDcCBgg?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQMJjVUBAQ?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2FyBAAfQM1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?UddgU8vQ1EBIBIshCWJAYV7TQEBAQEBAQUBgRIhBINzl3MLAQEBDi8EAQGER?= =?us-ascii?q?AKCDSc4EwIDAQELAQEBBQEBAQEBBQQCAmmFCliGSAEFIxUeIxALGAICJgICV?= =?us-ascii?q?xMGAgEBgyKCWCWuToEyimgTeyqNV4EHgTgMgl0+hRuCR4JgBJk1mXAIAoJUm?= =?us-ascii?q?FYjglKNdI08hQapRgyBaSOBVh9cgy5QGA2fJCUDMDcCBggBAQMJjVUBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,437,1583211600"; d="scan'208";a="135958393" Received: from 69-165-173-68.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO mail.razorfever.net) ([69.165.173.68]) by smtp11.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 26 May 2020 12:17:08 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4]) by mail.razorfever.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04QGH7wE058852; Tue, 26 May 2020 12:17:08 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.razorfever.net: Host mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 12:17:07 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mail.razorfever.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WfHT6ngCz4T1q X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 482254ac@razorfever.net has no SPF policy when checking 76.10.157.34) smtp.mailfrom=482254ac@razorfever.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.14 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.90)[-0.903]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.32)[0.322]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.36)[-0.364]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[razorfever.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5645, ipnet:76.10.128.0/19, country:CA]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[76.10.157.34:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:17:10 -0000 On 2020-05-26 11:08 a.m., Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: >> Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the >> feature from OpenBSD? > > What version of vi is on OpenBSD 6.7? On my 6.6 [Version 1.79 > (10/23/96)] the expandtab is not available, but on NetBSD 9.0 [Version > (1.81.6-2013-11-20nb4], it is. > > Be careful importing features from the 1.xx branch to the 2.x.x., the > one in FreeBSD. > Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not even going to start to bark up that tree, without some support. Thanks From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:19:50 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F01912CCC6C for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:19:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.83]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WfLY5HPjz4T0l for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:19:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: 9EO0WnMVM1lsTzrJwT2_47T5B7M9ZgGIz6Eu1vFqFoI2xU_j6pM_yh4ErSqv4DA gAZs0ept_ut.MsXdDtWf_7IDQYvSAcb1.pFdY3nkGdIF9acGvVQZS2IXrArm1VXoit.85bojt.kv hdR4xMRXEAopabfzEhEjfOZHaZFfCBfHgwjzqX1BZr0.vMutuC5QeaeAX92KeeqgVaFh5EPVwQE7 3IxMYmiRrHXr_aKbjiHHC.BCfGUwOOCapKd3WKNWwLLejTgn61b51srhyyPArmSO.L18zx2HC_ud nG7PH4PaLokS4SRPDHlzC4cb4fQyq09JAuZZipbsacr4.Wyo8UjsQL8VQbytuS7DhIQx550h9lbT 2l5gSb3X7S9WwCtx_TPKS58EB.gHQuDaVQwXLoKhAyy4nut46WmRTX4c456w0FVStty4l0aJFMFF KDSiMfkxspkUfb9IK_y6J5LYECHmXmo4qtH5MVLCSF06xBa9fmqRaRqhETEJZgxxFR6qOxUonXtT OtYembqTFO9pxzBmfjHspoWglLXi1aSJATkB5RnTPxj4kRRUyRMh8mA_VJISbLJQFpRVUPMMRV5z 7uP903jwhUzBWwh2ak8eXebUojbnwGjs6kQMud.lXHHnf9yKue4ThcXzFpoWmUTj3k_V8UjNZ2v2 ch4VHgJh4Z.fECrr5RALBJGOJsWIhWp1obZguybDBodwYyMfIZHax6kk1f5DJdfYwPxPvuW6.8Ap pEbRqAbU0p60oTC_zPgTBpg04twJjZ8l85B6hRwnsFnieRsq5UBC.6an1x0mmbeVNELrkp3r_MHX XqSDnFtiFohtcx3TXHQhZqjlK1BH58h6QzDkAaT9jtdQ5aYdqthwklOWnT74eSYc.M1.gaAsRHqM DJ9YEoIYWVz8P6PlCcnXNLLs0LnpPXcIg38NZtQe.b5wc12pbFSAJYVXqe3GcRRwTHqht3rVu2n_ nc5E6evJpe.mNXtoz.W1sxbq0Vz4icSeZK1lqwcWvQe91DJDHXeEsJWlcBo4P9HyEE_NMJpXcj0W z9zC5Jd69FGyR.POjujUAQWosEuVfj1i6TJgqBmEQzABx20I1oaoPPG1t6yHOsggTDUeaCjfSoOE gM9.a2vsBtFL3ip3dyiKZgguczipfQDLz184KHQZT1T1wuaSkPLuOuWc4jSeoVfCJ_4a649S2jFt TivubhH4njGWwAMEXsHvMfMTRUUkJwMAKh5ZoBpkctCvOfAVqCWdwgOOcAqAMnCPl6n7waFqV3tR YwvEfH8Hrr1WPGqPCV4zJ6eqYPENzyf8ZGdSA0ZYJ8q0Exl9eMu4fUP3SaiDK31OcraSdJp6ywqG jPLOmzG_1FRT.BFV6t8Q.KCnz9QZC6XmC0XhalyqEsMxf8OB3M3MCXPWH7Io5QCiTOAyUnMLn.5o i Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:19:47 +0000 Received: by smtp409.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a43ef011ec195fa2f7eaa33c792d2139; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:19:42 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:19:43 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux command 'watch' Message-ID: <20200526181943.006753a0@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <45b634eb-8374-bf75-5bc6-8bbe9115691e@infracaninophile.co.uk> References: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> <45b634eb-8374-bf75-5bc6-8bbe9115691e@infracaninophile.co.uk> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WfLY5HPjz4T0l X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.02 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[87.248.110.83:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.512]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[87.248.110.83:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:19:51 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:00:54 +0100, matthew@FreeBSD.org wrote: >Not entirely sure of the point in having two fairly small utilities to=20 >do exactly the same thing. Hi, actually Matthias asks for another solution, IIUC he doesn't expect that two utilities are doing the same thing ;). Fortunately he's "used to rough undertones" :) [1]. Keeping in mind all the troubles we have got with getting access to our Android, iOS and iPadOS devices from either FreeBSD or Linux, a pioneer used to an alternative should earn respect. Most likely nobody is aware of all the software available for all the different operating systems most of us probably need to use. Regards, Ralf [1] On Mon, 8 Jul 2019 11:19:57 +0200, Matthias Apitz wrote: >El d=C3=ADa Monday, July 08, 2019 a las 07:36:45AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf >escribi=C3=B3: >> As far as I know you are the first Ubuntu phone user sending a >> request, so I apologize for the cluelessness and I apologize for my >> slightly rough undertone. =20 > >As far as I know, me and my family (4 devices) are the only Ubuntu >phone users which I do know off in Germany :-)=20 >I'm used to rough undertones, when they provide help. https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evolution-list/2019-July/msg00100.html From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:21:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540DA2CCDDC for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:21:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from einar.indrida@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qk1-x743.google.com (mail-qk1-x743.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::743]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WfP13JqBz4TNm for ; 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Tue, 26 May 2020 09:21:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> In-Reply-To: From: Einar Indridason Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:21:45 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WfP13JqBz4TNm X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Z9GAB7bJ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of einarindrida@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::743 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=einarindrida@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.993]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::743:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.95)[-0.949]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:21:58 -0000 On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Derek (freebsd lists) < 482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > On 2020-05-26 11:08 a.m., Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > >> Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > >> feature from OpenBSD? > > > > What version of vi is on OpenBSD 6.7? On my 6.6 [Version 1.79 > > (10/23/96)] the expandtab is not available, but on NetBSD 9.0 [Version > > (1.81.6-2013-11-20nb4], it is. > > > > Be careful importing features from the 1.xx branch to the 2.x.x., the > > one in FreeBSD. > > > > Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not even going to start to bark up that tree, > without some support. > > Thanks > There is also 'vim' (and you could always do :set compatible to make vim behave more like vanilla vi) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:42:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8FCF2CD7B2 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic317-32.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic317-32.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Wfs90QSXz4Vx7 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: ZVnN6wAVM1lg8SCCCh7cqgggXyqPva7G66HeWGAyfBlkB0XgKkojLvQugvVOx3E h_Fkreg4.oYXB3gssqijpeewUijCuMcWg1OLOx_gojCI1KsuU_l8ZKhX56T0zNCaIR7y5GW1VBfJ woDGuRCYCjwEBEPQ_9wQu33wX1lrQ7JSfYmxrz0bjc8aXoQIPar.zI5qF3pIR9iZEVNLNuHK09rV SjhGrkVNAt9PhvKkoqKRmeogixFjuDejV06D4nGOruf4ZvqX18JitThyHDDKGC7IB4Zp6fvnTdjh aWcAfsYE.o1LS5oavAep2fH2WW6MAPwT6.EMR4w62Nzg6syGRBqYTZB1CXSp7FK3ihfmQVrIAXy1 3lMesqCDPKSvwz1DcnQHdW1C8_B6cxUDeiSNSQ1E8EiGkCNQ06MrnVZH_8jVcPtJ1uVYC1ZWat0C g4KipSpKEs_YnhqaAwmB8HOR84_wuIPthWsvhdoThgEUYKmxS92UMS1_bLETJee.Zm5B45HkL6nO kySsc0lbjSxn7xxABHwwHmJzs2r0oHclSW3nvDe0Nir8s1WTunm2e3.pg3ZRvS0TdXxaUPQvWD30 ZHHWZp02EeIcyOoa9F1xhNbhHehY0_SIvy.s1O9pcxh56wLTRiIyJc4WJxYxoaY7pUuCTejUjnfV .hTya4Oiz5gPWkq0bDQe_S9DkIAyrDfxs7AUYcw.DSsW5SfQ3Hdj9Ak1lEt4QfhRdDTV3ueQE3Bo 4x_Ggsj5TIIJNT9eW3at_651IZ3ib9Tu99E3RVd2B0lud.KIPxO7B.oCb2D3WhLGo92hTtigXzTE 7DnFOX_w.HTrKXQenB1VjrPBlokDgyng6T7o0RbmJ.KJt5pciKHuG1cSulcQm09LIwuUWUYHWYtn 1NJFLP.mtMqzRUpBywOXSsWmkccFNJQOqY_l76jNFhvnCRGniTTPWHrGV44_VwgvHixjVDT8rbYt 0S9ANE5Uggd5jlDvF1BaO2RFKIanvt9w65iJ2yFvor68cS_uEI6hQp3gYRNMhfeKIVN0XCfZx_90 8o5g6pBUb52b7UQIo22t_DemdTHi1jo0DOZ4A6Dy3gWzD3Bxcgg3aW_vbBKDIbwxIr17YKlJSbxo 7i5cGQbcH8sHi1GJwBTLbusksV68ZzGIxLJ2ESVPDsyUR5.Y.q1MS.qzz_8qYEzokGmbMs4sW3_G .lrRn48wtj7xYLjP4bAFNfAFNBeXnqNyGNVlr2aGQxgfOuBo8j2FTniGgbRSFTHbqas9Ghla2B9Y vvCWuqug.RLkT_SYIgqU3BbGlBNrFK4P7v3d829AQbxSgNwTQybHXD_l6dEJLUN7azy24h35x_bv ebqqpUOw.2Fuxs1neiad7x16QsalQeqXm_6Ob.kijKJ3Vg6ZZfOAJFY3g6uBUQDks8DsnELW3oUO eL5FATdSmfV7wzVe4vstnmlI- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:51 +0000 Received: by smtp414.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 6d3d06fa6da2d87c7fba7c39348899ae; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf1-f181.google.com with SMTP id n15so10425343pfd.0 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:42:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XK/8hDBl6wdFLTzU/1O2yLCmoY7T6Ik2bmcu+W2OaNndDlD+U s8U8V5GNoc5KZlJ0yyQOn4wVwEJw/BdcMymdx8Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwnZo6d2D4NCvW9+grmIW05UIOX8DeKUvaEdIr1m665+boeN2kCnlDCMC3p1bLIQp9qRYkgFJhSI9G6HoOWpgg= X-Received: by 2002:a62:4e83:: with SMTP id c125mr24086979pfb.165.1590511369000; Tue, 26 May 2020 09:42:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> In-Reply-To: From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:42:33 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: Einar Indridason Cc: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net>, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15960 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wfs90QSXz4Vx7 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.82 / 15.00]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.17)[-1.165]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.962]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.991]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.184.43:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.184.43:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:42:53 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 17:21, Einar Indridason wrote: > > On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Derek (freebsd lists) < > 482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > > On 2020-05-26 11:08 a.m., Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > > > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > > > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > >> Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > > >> feature from OpenBSD? > > > > > > What version of vi is on OpenBSD 6.7? On my 6.6 [Version 1.79 > > > (10/23/96)] the expandtab is not available, but on NetBSD 9.0 [Version > > > (1.81.6-2013-11-20nb4], it is. > > > > > > Be careful importing features from the 1.xx branch to the 2.x.x., the > > > one in FreeBSD. > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not even going to start to bark up that tree, > > without some support. > > > > Thanks > > > > There is also 'vim' (and you could always do :set compatible to make vim > behave more like vanilla vi) Not the OP, but that is not good. Vim, with or without compatibility mode, will not behave exactly like vi. Apart from using vim, which is probably the best solution, an alternative would be having a port from a different nvi tree. The issue gets even more complicated by the fact that there are multiple vi forks and all of them are slightly incompatible with each other. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:43:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7C182CD9D9 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:43:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic306-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.206]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WftG3qjLz4VwD for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:43:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: LB3GJZMVM1lC6OXxES7QzDGUQqVXE8cEzZ09UqYl65pQdVHedZwJ13fb6wAzPWR kdPlag720VWaDGgyUlHwgLTZoxjSPZdZUr05H8JcTpIVnvOyVSq4lSfJdYXWp_5_hp2kBthLbhuk Ex2CmZIDMPRXcahPfqO9vKZnJHCcvTs3Y9iZ32FcdPkXnJ9DQZFT.1CLVo15N5lCb8rG6._xa8MU 2vj3hEVQp.Fft4dUJ55u4DwUACm72eL0kXYjdJZpWWTQ2L_kLwGEKonKgFTc1wr2UI4bbBeqQhCY 9PranpzWwlYeN55pEEalcsKln0hYXf0Y67mrJ12GR7CQWDYlU8FmHSaRByfah3oUthvh5T9u4Vu2 hENc.jGD.UMRwHipvaNC.i79aeWNuWtdNSO3afoIZ69wB5CU.f.gpWioiCM0k7nRqcX.a04hz_b3 FsHXSlMf1Ak1KGiDu2gR6TVosglBrzhyFVZXm_Bp7ODEnZdzFhD7c0RX6F77yNBCUDRZqxcarQ8O FNP6_VfhDg3vgNhIIPpJfDz.8yXtohgoqH7eOduPxj0VmWnt1LOE9pzwDX5bKvrC8Xk9vxRsMGUg zZXWZUvAfhfATgrOVdE4krDKMjv7ux7zzf1HOTGUDKtTPZaXaJQOWQSxCWpD.ev1pq80coa4OAG. Bs3xjzVPb0BUXaHAx95roZQkJhse3_LV0G2ucH9t6sG15JuDrTQ56702H6cE16zP19h1oV_Uca.E pFEvIhjMXYetn1u_6gkDpTGnRhkAXspUVAwedJW2nZtfpUac56iUFYfsZ1P4A2Nc7JkoEcCoLxLA 1Xsw.IGv.AzNqknvEz5iO_OoRCo5kW1YHmn9L90GkluEf6f_Mj5_fo_M21vf9B6AENqlS21nlwEI 0AuObpjcIBEUFyjaiKQaOPl3IeXleqe252sROSle7HqreIu40CqtgrgRj9Jjzq5OIT2E9lzi0Sbt dsyU2lq4OIm8IxjaO6isGuAKcP4YrgRZox8UUWiJ1JHs2leBRGoWiTkGPSau9P.FBdxl7R1Pkzld OnT8EUhy6B4mnfObajcseNxnobUJfXKT_ZVXy.fT6BXsNuK4kUdbEG6pt4IBAquj9R9937KAUvml Po4m1ZqDxcKa9bmUTURhV.KTinuVRAz3ZwfNWTsMmuyUa2.S9JXYnzbum07cubB9fJVtzK2h2xoa SgkxqrN92PXcGfOMCgGPifGRfIa74MFGFF6V22rdi92hgXRoALgixKwzxZmsDhZ8bp9_5d7KA9af qtM4uJj9sOhi.7U4bo_jQviRMFwgP._29rRFftAvtJRwBkaD4e5eBkGk5zg7tEg2hIsP9FypifUS HDPurgLuXqaGu_QufYNKahJMyek4GGk85PX4sQzA2catsYIWCHYkl6cMquR3dC_MripUlsv8wUI7 GcR26O7Df Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic306.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:43:48 +0000 Received: by smtp422.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 87d437748a64dd07adf0a5667ec284e4; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:43:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:43:44 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux command 'watch' Message-ID: <20200526184344.0fbebe83@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200526181943.006753a0@archlinux> References: <20200526144217.GB7556@sh4-5.1blu.de> <45b634eb-8374-bf75-5bc6-8bbe9115691e@infracaninophile.co.uk> <20200526181943.006753a0@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WftG3qjLz4VwD X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.206:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.49)[-0.486]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.001]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.206:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:43:51 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 18:19:43 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: >On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:00:54 +0100, matthew@FreeBSD.org wrote: >>Not entirely sure of the point in having two fairly small utilities >>to do exactly the same thing. Oops, pardon, this was a reply to Fernando's answer and not to Matthias' request. Anyway, for Ubuntu phone/FreeBSD portability /usr/ports/misc/gnu-watch might be not off track. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 16:48:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53BB62CDBCF for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WfzC1WkGz4Wgc for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 10313106A6 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:48:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from PD0786.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:830:f9fc:c1c:9a54]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 40C4F1B1D4 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 16:48:05 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/40C4F1B1D4; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: matthew@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:48:02 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 16:48:07 -0000 On 26/05/2020 17:42, Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 17:21, Einar Indridason wrote: >> >> On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:17 PM Derek (freebsd lists) < >> 482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: >> >>> On 2020-05-26 11:08 a.m., Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: >>>> On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) >>>> <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: >>>>> Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the >>>>> feature from OpenBSD? >>>> >>>> What version of vi is on OpenBSD 6.7? On my 6.6 [Version 1.79 >>>> (10/23/96)] the expandtab is not available, but on NetBSD 9.0 [Version >>>> (1.81.6-2013-11-20nb4], it is. >>>> >>>> Be careful importing features from the 1.xx branch to the 2.x.x., the >>>> one in FreeBSD. >>>> >>> >>> Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm not even going to start to bark up that tree, >>> without some support. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >> >> There is also 'vim' (and you could always do :set compatible to make vim >> behave more like vanilla vi) > > Not the OP, but that is not good. Vim, with or without compatibility > mode, will not behave exactly like vi. Apart from using vim, which is > probably the best solution, an alternative would be having a port from > a different nvi tree. The issue gets even more complicated by the fact > that there are multiple vi forks and all of them are slightly > incompatible with each other. > Or use expand(1) from the command line... Cheers, Matthew From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 17:26:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F7132CE9EC for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:26:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [IPv6:2607:5600:bd::1:1000]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49WgqB0f0cz4ZJ8 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:26:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 6C817F8; Tue, 26 May 2020 13:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 13:26:13 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: Norman Gray Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Documentation and debugging for NFSv4 Message-ID: <20200526172613.GN1068@aurora.gregv.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WgqB0f0cz4ZJ8 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gregv.net has no SPF policy when checking 2607:5600:bd::1:1000) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gregv.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.36)[0.357]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gregv.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.31)[0.309]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.94)[0.940]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31863, ipnet:2607:5600::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:26:14 -0000 On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 07:43:02PM +0100, Norman Gray wrote: [snip] > I now go to another CentOS 7.8 machine > > client3# mount -tnfs server:/astro/norman /mnt > client3# mount|grep /mnt > server:/astro/norman on /mnt type nfs4 > (rw,relatime,vers=4.1,rsize=131072,wsize=131072,namlen=255,hard,proto=tcp,timeo=600,retrans=2,sec=sys,clientaddr=130.209.202.212,local_lock=none,addr=130.209.45.61) > client3# ls /mnt > ls: reading directory /mnt: Input/output error > > Nothing! The same thing -- an apparently successful mount, and then > an I/O error -- happens when I let the automounter do the work. Based on this and your subsequent response to Doug/Remy, I think the next thing I'd check would be the idmap settings. It sounds like you may have a domain mismatch. All the idmap daemons on both client and server must be running and must agree on the domain name (doesn't really matter what it is, they just have to agree). On FreeBSD this is specified with the -domain arg to nfsuserd (which looks like it can also be put in rc.conf). On Linux it's set with the Domain keyword in /etc/idmapd.conf. Various implementations of the software attempt to calculate a default domain if none is given, using different methods to do so. It's much safer to pick something yourself and explicitly set it everywhere. -- Greg Veldman From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 17:57:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7EA32CF3D0 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49WhVv4LpNz4cNf for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 939762CF3CF; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:11 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 935E12CF3CE for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from libero.it (smtp-31-i2.italiaonline.it [213.209.12.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WhVt3Hbtz4cQW for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from oxapps-36-163.iol.local ([10.101.8.209]) by smtp-31.iol.local with ESMTPA id ddp5jY9qRGrpJddp5jZkF5; Tue, 26 May 2020 19:57:07 +0200 x-libjamoibt: 1601 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=Ief5plia c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=fBROpUeZSIJVkaCHzo7K7A==:117 a=DZuTm48PCEMA:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=ZWAY9u5Z9IIA:10 a=w6ZPYIgxMwzNPHskkuoA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 19:57:07 +0200 (CEST) From: salvatorembartolotta@libero.it To: questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> Subject: rEFInd and _two_ FREEBSD systems on the same disk on the same UEFI laptop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev30 X-Originating-IP: 151.63.32.103 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite x-libjamsun: xqvFIXtU9cVQvdZXoTkn0P6GXcpw4rKir8KwS+mxE0o= x-libjamv: F5ZuU3KwGng= X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfOs0oLtWxIvoc9y2Jd15iJ/SKdeR2QQhXqS8hLAFGYWJRNvLejF7z//u9y/zZ6d5UINfHuE2UoX+IInk5/13z6F2/CImR2v1xxq7PHWoNuDKatDAtcTl BxJnqzCHPJOMu0y4O+XH+xd5S14SUPOkJNkndwhlVy34ph23Sl5Ju0ZkNfgbOZ+dL2r6iwzEM8h7uz1d0dP3lZ17NBEXTMgtZ0Q= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WhVt3Hbtz4cQW X-Spamd-Bar: ------ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.93 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[libero.it]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.209.8.0/21]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[libero.it:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[libero.it,quarantine]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.91)[-0.910]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[libero.it]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8660, ipnet:213.209.0.0/18, country:IT]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[libero.it:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[libero.it:s=s2014]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.04)[-1.039]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[213.209.12.31:from]; WHITELIST_SPF_DKIM(-3.00)[libero.it:d:+,libero.it:s:+]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[213.209.12.31:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 17:57:11 -0000 Good afternoon, Has anyone installed two BSD (say -RELEASE and -STABLE) on the same disk on the same UEFI machine using rEFInd? Setting up dual booting - Windows 10 and FreeBSD-whatever - via rEFInd is just a matter of bcdediting a path and copying the appropriate .efi files. (duh). The /boot/boot1.efi copied in \EFI\FreeBSD-STABLE does its job and loads the _first_ FreeBSD system, as says uefi(8). What if I want to boot _another_ FreeBSD system on the _same_ GPT-partitioned disk? Specifying the GUID of the partition in the menuentry stanza i.e. ... volume GPTGUID loader boot/boot1.efi .... isn't enough and does not work(TM). I suppose rEFInd_x64.efi can't access the second system without an appropriate ufs driver. There are, indeed, drivers for linux filesystems (ext2, ext4, etc.) in the rEFInd directory. And FreeBSD? How am I supposed to solve the problem _within_ FreeBSD with rEFInd? My apologies for the crazy/mad question and many thanks in advance for your help, pointers, suggestions. 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Tue, 26 May 2020 18:07:39 +0000 From: "Norman Gray" To: Greg Veldman CC: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Documentation and debugging for NFSv4 Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 19:07:37 +0100 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) Message-ID: <6FE7F8A1-F296-4B85-A7C8-E360F8D559B6@glasgow.ac.uk> In-Reply-To: <20200526172613.GN1068@aurora.gregv.net> References: <20200526172613.GN1068@aurora.gregv.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0107.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:c::23) To CWXP265MB0149.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:401:8::19) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [130.209.33.142] (81.2.70.164) by LO2P265CA0107.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:c::23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3045.17 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:07:39 +0000 X-Mailer: MailMate (1.13.1r5671) X-Originating-IP: [81.2.70.164] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 0db802fe-2e68-4248-190c-08d8019fad68 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: CWXP265MB0584: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508; 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dkim=pass header.d=gla.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com header.b=kyT+BffA; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk has no SPF policy when checking 130.209.16.102) smtp.mailfrom=Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.66 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.07)[-1.073]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[130.209.16.102:from]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.961]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[glasgow.ac.uk]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[130.209.16.102:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.63)[-0.630]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:786, ipnet:130.209.0.0/16, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:07:44 -0000 Greg, hello. On 26 May 2020, at 18:26, Greg Veldman wrote: > Based on this and your subsequent response to Doug/Remy, I > think the next thing I'd check would be the idmap settings. > It sounds like you may have a domain mismatch. All the idmap > daemons on both client and server must be running and must agree > on the domain name (doesn't really matter what it is, they just > have to agree). I staggered to this conclusion today, but haven't had the chance to think through the consequences. > On FreeBSD this is specified with the -domain > arg to nfsuserd (which looks like it can also be put in rc.conf). > On Linux it's set with the Domain keyword in /etc/idmapd.conf. > Various implementations of the software attempt to calculate a > default domain if none is given, using different methods to do > so. It's much safer to pick something yourself and explicitly > set it everywhere. I'm currently trying to work out if there's a way of doing that that doesn't involve making config edits to a lot of machines. I think the answer is 'no', and that this is going to be painful whichever decision I make about the domain name. Solaris appears to support a rather nice client-side search for a magic DNS TXT record. Cute, but as far as I can see that's a Solaris-only thing. Oh well. Thanks, Greg and all. Best wishes, Norman -- Norman Gray : http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/it/ Research IT Coordinator : School of Physics and Astronomy // My current template week for IT tasks is: Monday, Tuesday, and Friday From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 18:09:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B7F02CFCF0 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:09:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) Received: from pmta31.teksavvy.com (pmta31.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.38]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.teksavvy.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WhnB4zR5z4dkD; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:09:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) IronPort-SDR: tWSn2N1Viwgu6sE3uSxgksdhNJxPPpgIWDAIUwMEx47YfY8rpXwDSD6q1kgG+HxcBCKIWYo01w zuhkhZ8gQMqg== X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2EzFABkWs1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgUcCW4FPL0NRASASLIQliCNehXtNAQEBAQEBBQGBEiEEg3O?= =?us-ascii?q?VeIF7CwEBAQ4vBAEBhEQCgg0nPAINAgMBAQsBAQEFAQEBAQEFBAICaYUKWIZ?= =?us-ascii?q?IAQUjFR4zCxgCAiYCAlcHDAYCAQGDIoJYJa4vgTKKbxN7KgGNVoEHgTgMgl0?= =?us-ascii?q?+h2KCYASZNZlwCAKCVJhWI4JSAY1zjTyFBotInX4MggAMgVYfXIMuUBgNnyQ?= =?us-ascii?q?lAzA3AgYIAQEDCY1VAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2EzFABkWs1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?UcCW4FPL0NRASASLIQliCNehXtNAQEBAQEBBQGBEiEEg3OVeIF7CwEBAQ4vB?= =?us-ascii?q?AEBhEQCgg0nPAINAgMBAQsBAQEFAQEBAQEFBAICaYUKWIZIAQUjFR4zCxgCA?= =?us-ascii?q?iYCAlcHDAYCAQGDIoJYJa4vgTKKbxN7KgGNVoEHgTgMgl0+h2KCYASZNZlwC?= =?us-ascii?q?AKCVJhWI4JSAY1zjTyFBotInX4MggAMgVYfXIMuUBgNnyQlAzA3AgYIAQEDC?= =?us-ascii?q?Y1VAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,437,1583211600"; d="scan'208";a="134030170" Received: from 69-165-173-68.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO mail.razorfever.net) ([69.165.173.68]) by smtp13.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 26 May 2020 14:09:33 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4]) by mail.razorfever.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04QI9XIE059854; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:09:33 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.razorfever.net: Host mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: matthew@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Message-ID: <778c15db-ab60-4856-b08a-479adfafaedf@chezmarcotte.ca> Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:09:33 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mail.razorfever.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WhnB4zR5z4dkD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5645, ipnet:76.10.128.0/19, country:CA] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:09:35 -0000 On 2020-05-26 12:48 p.m., matthew@FreeBSD.org wrote: > Or use expand(1) from the command line... > That's what I'm looking for, thank you. No external dependencies. I'll just change my muscle memory around. Gratitude. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 18:25:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D648A2F06DB for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:25:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [IPv6:2607:5600:bd::1:1000]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49Wj7y5QRQz4fbd for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0A8CBF8; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:25:50 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: Norman Gray Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Documentation and debugging for NFSv4 Message-ID: <20200526182550.GP1068@aurora.gregv.net> References: <20200526172613.GN1068@aurora.gregv.net> <6FE7F8A1-F296-4B85-A7C8-E360F8D559B6@glasgow.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6FE7F8A1-F296-4B85-A7C8-E360F8D559B6@glasgow.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wj7y5QRQz4fbd X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gregv.net has no SPF policy when checking 2607:5600:bd::1:1000) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gregv.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.59 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.36)[0.365]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gregv.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.35)[0.353]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.97)[0.971]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31863, ipnet:2607:5600::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:25:51 -0000 On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 07:07:37PM +0100, Norman Gray wrote: > > On FreeBSD this is specified with the -domain > > arg to nfsuserd (which looks like it can also be put in rc.conf). > > On Linux it's set with the Domain keyword in /etc/idmapd.conf. > > Various implementations of the software attempt to calculate a > > default domain if none is given, using different methods to do > > so. It's much safer to pick something yourself and explicitly > > set it everywhere. > > I'm currently trying to work out if there's a way of doing that that > doesn't involve making config edits to a lot of machines. I think the > answer is 'no', and that this is going to be painful whichever decision > I make about the domain name. > > Solaris appears > > to support a rather nice client-side search for a magic DNS TXT record. > Cute, but as far as I can see that's a Solaris-only thing. Yes, you're probably going to have to touch all the machines (or have your config management tool of choice do it for you). But note that you should only need to change either the arg to nfsuserd (which can be put in rc.conf) or the one line in idmapd.conf. This has nothing to do with the system's DNS domain name, name resolution search order, etc. There's no real requirement (that I know of) to have it reflect anything about your DNS. You could just make it "foo" everywhere, and as long as all the hosts agree it should work. -- Greg Veldman From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 18:58:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77B6D2F11D2 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:58:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) Received: from pmta11.teksavvy.com (pmta11.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.teksavvy.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Wjsl4n2Zz3T1r; Tue, 26 May 2020 18:58:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) IronPort-SDR: AVXarJRisG2E1NgDxbdHAyEWdSVLT7/kAq8c8yd4OdkBIplkqYQHV78RmZJ2DCM+rWUEDDb+GH pLrYNRVa+Msg== X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2FeBgCeZc1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAgUcCW4FPL0NRASASLIQliQGFe00BAQEBAQEFAYEzBINzl3M?= =?us-ascii?q?LAQEBDi8EAQGERAKCDSc5BQ0CAwEBCwEBAQUBAQEBAQUEAgJphQpYhkgBBSM?= =?us-ascii?q?PAQUeIxALGAICJgICVxMGAgEBgyKCWCWuO4EyimsTeyqNV4EHgTiCaT6FG4J?= =?us-ascii?q?HgmAEowWQIAgCglSYViOCUo10jTyFBqlGDIFqIoFWH1yDLlAYDZ8kJQMwNwI?= =?us-ascii?q?GAQcBAQMJjVUBAQ?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2FeBgCeZc1e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAg?= =?us-ascii?q?UcCW4FPL0NRASASLIQliQGFe00BAQEBAQEFAYEzBINzl3MLAQEBDi8EAQGER?= =?us-ascii?q?AKCDSc5BQ0CAwEBCwEBAQUBAQEBAQUEAgJphQpYhkgBBSMPAQUeIxALGAICJ?= =?us-ascii?q?gICVxMGAgEBgyKCWCWuO4EyimsTeyqNV4EHgTiCaT6FG4JHgmAEowWQIAgCg?= =?us-ascii?q?lSYViOCUo10jTyFBqlGDIFqIoFWH1yDLlAYDZ8kJQMwNwIGAQcBAQMJjVUBA?= =?us-ascii?q?Q?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,437,1583211600"; d="scan'208";a="136032943" Received: from 69-165-173-68.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO mail.razorfever.net) ([69.165.173.68]) by smtp11.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 26 May 2020 14:58:34 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4]) by mail.razorfever.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04QIwYh4060300; Tue, 26 May 2020 14:58:34 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.razorfever.net: Host mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> <778c15db-ab60-4856-b08a-479adfafaedf@chezmarcotte.ca> From: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Message-ID: <3cb01e2e-a77a-da31-fe4f-65d3a4584d59@chezmarcotte.ca> Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 14:58:34 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <778c15db-ab60-4856-b08a-479adfafaedf@chezmarcotte.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mail.razorfever.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wjsl4n2Zz3T1r X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 482254ac@razorfever.net has no SPF policy when checking 76.10.157.34) smtp.mailfrom=482254ac@razorfever.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.10 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.21)[-0.208]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.14)[0.136]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[razorfever.net]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.38)[0.376]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5645, ipnet:76.10.128.0/19, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[76.10.157.34:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 18:58:36 -0000 On 2020-05-26 2:09 p.m., Derek (freebsd lists) wrote: > On 2020-05-26 12:48 p.m., matthew@FreeBSD.org wrote: >> Or use expand(1) from the command line... >> > > That's what I'm looking for, thank you.  No external dependencies.  I'll > just change my muscle memory around. > > Gratitude. > I guess I should add for posterity, you can do in vi: :!expand -t So: :.,.+6!expand -t 4 takes the current and the following 6 lines, and converts the tabs to 4 spaces. :%!expand will convert the whole buffer to 8-space tabs. Thanks again! From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 20:54:31 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EF22F3EE6 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:54:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic315-21.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.190.147]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WmRT6c2zz3fQ4 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:54:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: _c4fswEVM1mgYnQaE0sqKBYiY7X8lcjdjhzS8suMz0Tj5k6.S1jddMwtfiuzC3V XIJclVTJOadw_yL0eCSQ0UOv.nnersgrFDCQkJNLrvFyWaLWfzr8ZdGfdp8LkwJ1py_.YBYk9Zrb twYZxUj5s5OVpZrz6csA9W1H02f5o2tsknQftun0nfjVVXW7mwH4foIk4SOIGT7LS53KdszI0l5l pCv_zTOwwR79HavTIKHUQkBzUsK4l.dkuhzB7RJbtNN2kz2y2PXHjF0ktvSmOPr5v_N4B5g3__7T 1xIfONBvxm0pWowC7O9oB7XbRO10lKMsogeruTjKqSrmv2c9RJ6xjm5X.a3n28x_BSuxNwqU6u12 oNpdtqKdQ7jWHk1An4Gv.JC8volwxUdrYJjJVmXtYXEVX4YF9W4iXWxWuyiiyqFlQi8_CcLHcyu3 F7BA3SisMHjCCrJVFE_9uNrVc_aRPgDV4tqMVSqMjhofGqogJFCsw3rGcEqfas.h_zqmwlFHusoT 2.mejkyIaac1NF4ZROV4rpXB1PvdUsA0xkUm_bUVyuDcMUmlT2cz1WBA9IGYyzkjZWlBs_iQGxnr l.TBnBPuHVUTruXBW4FYCDNVyZXm.CfPkqavukD3qyPiPOfKZYQqYndH8H2X_P69O36I4n5uPA4b Jq4NOywt1WQPq2cb9Hq11R4gTsv3mPbKCdhQUq_XGKwzE45yXIyCNwJnqO2KYc_4mnOxV.4_qO3b qvn7NVPv4FahWbqjUOpLGTYXSojI27PzFBzvXLUpzQzPdBG9al6cX41491X.vzsB2IKy3U.grKAn mt1exY7qveqkkh1dCHlnBcrA8CPJPs1WZTUOjcggX6i9zVyQtJzG0Mh2BdlNGLpB0j1nF8GxgXU8 Lpb1eCNWJy2t4fetMHyYIOzMeovo5XO0kYs3yt56CQU0jCjSvLzQ5k2_hPv3n.8lxY0Pa_ZUyglR 0F3PvETtOFfdtsm.bHwMP.Rf60uWwsliuVNZHczmEH93Fv5.5mXfQLeTn6NQypqbskqFtmIBrVv_ Hu5NdPFJtx7b6MgIMW3NKLWBnZ_T_lAaNBZU4SaEB.7WR7X320RjDxRqgIBZLGwqlW.CUMPj2RK9 AZBjQwvaduNH8srET8HLJNU0daNQB28cc1xipvcWk9BVW3MKO6Zq6kDZMvje_eFi7Sq2P1arn6UP FYEdidf8ErzdCDW40IQOp99f97hkCsLjoC0SiHYUhOPSG38BV0PRFIkAwaR1bkRAQqKAXqMovZj9 1ghfIqkSz.LrFKEE0UziC.lT19Upo6Of3he1LBXHRnbMWqhGbE2AfwDXLbM4PDd3zKeZxltg.vHs ws1hfDoHCQmlIEACXuD0odC22Se97Ph9rMZwRrcsOlbXXB.UJsiAbSNf1x2FhsVO7snyxr.qD7KP u7i94rMTs43roUSsK6yq.LXvVnw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic315.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:54:28 +0000 Received: by smtp432.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8b93ba7bc5a13d32815f5051a01c1b23; Tue, 26 May 2020 20:54:26 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pl1-f175.google.com with SMTP id d3so9198305pln.1 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 13:54:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532VSmXiZKBs8Q8WJ6xXFxyJbXkJVBUd/v3edkLbQpwvVrT/g/s2 ASuQRPHYttXcuHcrUeT6/YZA+ib9vtit7mFit7Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyQmpcRDo6qv++K7fAwf/rg0n2OJi05nB+aYOxZOmZepm7mTnEMiOspRbwhPvGWu/RJmyYKbGdT1fGSHXE+fMo= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:82c9:: with SMTP id u9mr2726667plz.179.1590526466203; Tue, 26 May 2020 13:54:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> In-Reply-To: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 21:54:10 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15959 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WmRT6c2zz3fQ4 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.43 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.986]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.973]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.190.147:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.77)[-0.772]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.190.147:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 20:54:31 -0000 On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > Hiya, > > After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces for > certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm finding > the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports this > option. > > What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? > > Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > feature from OpenBSD? After careful checking, the expandtab option was introduced to NetBSD first: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2008/12/10/msg001482.html by Luke Mewburn and probably backported to OpenBSD later. This has never gone (I think) into FreeBSD base. If one wants to make a port out of it, they can look at the pkgsrc port: https://pkgsrc.se/editors/nvi and adjust Makefile, etc. Note that the $HOMEPAGE is 404 and the distfile is cached somewhere on the NetBSD servers. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 26 21:30:55 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D9D2F46A4 for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49WnFW3tJPz40DT for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 84FFB2F46A3; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83BA22F481F for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailout.easydns.com (mailout.easydns.com [64.68.202.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49WnFV2LpBz405H for ; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E43DC09DB; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easydns.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo12-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yiQnDhnMExT1; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:53 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hedeland.org (81-228-157-209-no289.tbcn.telia.com [81.228.157.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9E525C09C8; Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:49 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 04QLUlAj016754 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Tue, 26 May 2020 23:30:48 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: rEFInd and _two_ FREEBSD systems on the same disk on the same UEFI laptop To: salvatorembartolotta@libero.it References: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> Cc: questions@freebsd.org From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 23:30:47 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49WnFV2LpBz405H X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of per@hedeland.org has no SPF policy when checking 64.68.202.10) smtp.mailfrom=per@hedeland.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.80 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[81.228.157.209:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.73)[-0.728]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.11)[0.106]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[libero.it]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16686, ipnet:64.68.200.0/22, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.68.202.10:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2020 21:30:55 -0000 On 2020-05-26 19:57, Salvatore Bartolotta via freebsd-questions wrote: > > Has anyone installed two BSD (say -RELEASE and -STABLE) on the same disk on the same UEFI machine using rEFInd? Yes - I routinely have two different -RELEASE installs, and "upgrade" by replacing the older one. Allows for quick switch-back when the new version is b0rken, as well as easily finding the config tweaks that I had forgotten when upgrading (since the complete previous version is still available - and mounted). > Setting up dual booting - Windows 10 and FreeBSD-whatever - via rEFInd is just a matter of bcdediting a path and copying the appropriate .efi files. (duh). > > The /boot/boot1.efi copied in \EFI\FreeBSD-STABLE does its job and loads the _first_ FreeBSD system, as says uefi(8). What if I want to boot _another_ FreeBSD system on the _same_ GPT-partitioned disk? The solution I use can also be found in uefi(8), but it's really ugly - if anyone knows of a cleaner way, I'd be happy to learn about it. Anyway, uefi(8) says: 3. boot1.efi searches partitions of type freebsd-ufs and freebsd-zfs for loader.efi. [...] I.e. you can control which partition/install gets booted by making sure that it's the only one that has a loader.efi file. So: $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/ada0p7 25389052 11405824 11952104 49% / devfs 1 1 0 100% /dev /dev/ada0p6 25389052 22339544 1018384 96% /oldroot /dev/ada0p9 127953980 67120872 50596792 57% /local fdescfs 1 1 0 100% /dev/fd procfs 4 4 0 100% /proc $ ls {/oldroot,}/boot/loader.efi* /boot/loader.efi /oldroot/boot/loader.efi.dontuse Switching amounts to # mv /oldroot/boot/loader.efi.dontuse /oldroot/boot/loader.efi # mv /boot/loader.efi /boot/loader.efi.dontuse # reboot (You can get away with using .dontuse on only one of them if you trust that the search order will always be the same, and you can remember what it is.) I *said* it was ugly...:-) I haven't looked into any of the stuff you discuss below (which seems nice) - my (quite possibly incorrect) understanding is that FreeBSD's boot1.efi has to be loaded from the "EFI system partition", meaning that e.g. rEFInd is out of the picture for selection between FreeBSD partitions/installs. --Per > Specifying the GUID of the partition in the menuentry stanza i.e. > ... > volume GPTGUID > loader boot/boot1.efi > .... > > isn't enough and does not work(TM). > > I suppose rEFInd_x64.efi can't access the second system without an appropriate ufs driver. There are, indeed, drivers for linux filesystems (ext2, ext4, etc.) in the rEFInd directory. And FreeBSD? > > How am I supposed to solve the problem _within_ FreeBSD with rEFInd? > > My apologies for the crazy/mad question and many thanks in advance for your help, pointers, suggestions. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 04:10:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D803B2FD7A9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 04:10:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mail.foucry.net (fournil.foucry.net [95.217.83.231]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Wy6T4tBgz4XPw for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 04:10:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jacques+freebsd@foucry.net) Received: from mithril.localdomain (dontpanic.foucry.net [80.67.176.134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-384) server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.foucry.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AC9D92D3C0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 04:10:09 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=foucry.net; s=dkim; t=1590552609; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=DXM4F1SU91ZXv4Mqja1aGJXkGby+sWlDK298K7YMfdE=; b=P+s/giU1EUeuaUDyhnVR0FTc/wdB2O3mO6u1UhBl9fAFrrlKLKE8lE0bS/qA/MWKmyoQ3r tgiGRvA6MN35ToCH1SHGvjSgtePLLn1KTkXIqqPP2z+3aZrS193UWmcqph+kpgwCBbafAC NijY1KCINCKjEy6GPPYuzGmZYSSfq6A= Received: from mithril (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mithril.localdomain (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A6DE11A38 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:10:08 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 06:10:08 +0200 From: Jacques Foucry To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces Message-ID: <20200527041008.GD95043@mithril> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.40 X-Rspamd-Server: mail.foucry.net X-Spam-Score: 0.40 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Wy6T4tBgz4XPw X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=foucry.net header.s=dkim header.b=P+s/giU1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=foucry.net; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of jacques@foucry.net designates 95.217.83.231 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=jacques@foucry.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.87 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[foucry.net:s=dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.026]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[foucry.net:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[foucry.net,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.35)[-0.350]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:24940, ipnet:95.217.0.0/16, country:DE]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[freebsd] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 04:10:26 -0000 Le mardi 26 mai 2020 à 21:54:10 (+0100), Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions à écrit: Hello friends, > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > > > Hiya, > > > > After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces for > > certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm finding > > the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports this > > option. > > > > What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? > > > > Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > > feature from OpenBSD? > > After careful checking, the expandtab option was introduced to NetBSD first: > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2008/12/10/msg001482.html > > by Luke Mewburn and probably backported to OpenBSD later. This has > never gone (I think) into FreeBSD base. If one wants to make a port > out of it, they can look at the pkgsrc port: > https://pkgsrc.se/editors/nvi > > and adjust Makefile, etc. > > Note that the $HOMEPAGE is 404 and the distfile is cached somewhere on > the NetBSD servers. Not sure to ã„©nderstand the problem. Octavio want to switch tab to spaces in it's sources files. He use nvi (I don't, I use vim) and expandtab seems to not work. I Ø¥ad the same issur with vim and discover the :retab command which actually does visualy the expandtab job. The sequesce is: :expantab :retab Again I don't use nvi but I thingk that's could be æ solution. Please execuse me if I am out of goal and my intervention is not in the subjet. -- Jacques Foucry From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 06:40:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C77B7328160 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ish@amail.plala.or.jp) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49X1RX0BxYz3Tct for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ish@amail.plala.or.jp) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 04B38328502; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:24 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 047A732815E for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ish@amail.plala.or.jp) Received: from msc11.plala.or.jp (msc11.plala.or.jp [60.36.166.21]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49X1RV2263z3TV9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ish@amail.plala.or.jp) Received: from localhost ([2400:4050:9320:7a00::8]) by msc11.plala.or.jp with ESMTP id <20200527064018.OGV3404.msc11.plala.or.jp@localhost>; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:40:18 +0900 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:40:10 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20200527.154010.456241527955787106.ish@amail.plala.or.jp> To: salvatorembartolotta@libero.it Cc: questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: rEFInd and _two_ FREEBSD systems on the same disk on the same UEFI laptop From: Masachika ISHIZUKA In-Reply-To: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> References: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> X-Mailer: Mew version 6.8 on Emacs 26.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-VirusScan: Outbound; mvir-ac11; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:40:19 +0900 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X1RV2263z3TV9 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ish@amail.plala.or.jp designates 60.36.166.21 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ish@amail.plala.or.jp X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.09 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.35)[-0.348]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:60.36.166.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[plala.or.jp]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.94)[-0.939]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.11)[-0.107]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[60.36.166.21:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[libero.it]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:4713, ipnet:60.32.0.0/12, country:JP]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 06:40:24 -0000 > Has anyone installed two BSD (say -RELEASE and -STABLE) on the same disk on the same UEFI machine using rEFInd? I'm using rEFInd and /dev/ada0p9 is / for 12.1-release and /dev/ada0p10 is / for 13-current. I copied /boot/loader.efi (from current) to /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi. /EFI/refind/refind.conf is like the following. menuentry FreeBSD-release { loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi options "rootdev=disk0p9 autoboot_delay=1" icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-release.png } menuentry FreeBSD-current { loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi options "rootdev=disk0p10 autoboot_delay=1" icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-current.png } -- Masachika ISHIZUKA From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 08:24:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62CB432B499 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:24:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic308-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.187.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X3lS39NVz3fV2 for ; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 08:24:18 +0000 Received: by smtp415.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8d2d82a8c223a6be7548f4dd7b3a298b; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:24:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf1-f172.google.com with SMTP id q8so11520045pfu.5 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 01:24:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530ov8Zk8rodan9UOvaOJRmaYA5x80powHaXpULZhDIHUpy/so/S fCnOGxV/slrrpFc9jCcP/aRdmrGAgyfySuwL7Jw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz3133SPRkzkHRKtRn/9ASHucmShB+X+5cSBQckBE40cm/bo/T/kcb53m9uvhvmxCWYy5v2gVxrLgY+gTRirGs= X-Received: by 2002:a62:ddd6:: with SMTP id w205mr2832596pff.291.1590567853753; Wed, 27 May 2020 01:24:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> <20200527041008.GD95043@mithril> In-Reply-To: <20200527041008.GD95043@mithril> From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 09:23:56 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: OT: vim, was: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15959 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X3lS39NVz3fV2 X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.13 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.040]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.988]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.187.31:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.40)[-0.398]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.187.31:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 08:24:21 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 05:10, Jacques Foucry w= rote: > > Le mardi 26 mai 2020 =C3=A0 21:54:10 (+0100), Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-= questions =C3=A0 =C3=A9crit: > > > Hello friends, > > > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > > > > > Hiya, > > > > > > After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces f= or > > > certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm findi= ng > > > the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports t= his > > > option. > > > > > > What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? > > > > > > Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > > > feature from OpenBSD? > > > > After careful checking, the expandtab option was introduced to NetBSD f= irst: > > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2008/12/10/msg001482.html > > > > by Luke Mewburn and probably backported to OpenBSD later. This has > > never gone (I think) into FreeBSD base. If one wants to make a port > > out of it, they can look at the pkgsrc port: > > https://pkgsrc.se/editors/nvi > > > > and adjust Makefile, etc. > > > > Note that the $HOMEPAGE is 404 and the distfile is cached somewhere on > > the NetBSD servers. > > Not sure to =E3=84=A9nderstand the problem. Yes, because you need to read the thread from the start. > > Octavio want to switch tab to spaces in it's sources files. Actually, it's a NetBSD patch. > He use nvi (I > don't, I use vim) and expandtab seems to not work. > > I =D8=A5ad the same issur with vim and discover the :retab command which = actually > does visualy the expandtab job. > > The sequesce is: > :expantab > :retab I use the latest vim and I don't have retab: : set retab? E518: Unknown option: retab? > > Again I don't use nvi but I thingk that's could be =C3=A6 solution. > > Please execuse me if I am out of goal and my intervention is not in the > subjet. As above ^. --=20 Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 08:27:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56E4732B89C for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:27:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michaelsprivate@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd44.google.com (mail-io1-xd44.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X3q958mRz3fWV for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:27:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from michaelsprivate@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd44.google.com with SMTP id r2so14697246ioo.4 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 01:27:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 01:27:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> <20200527041008.GD95043@mithril> In-Reply-To: From: Michael Schuster Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:27:21 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: OT: vim, was: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: Ottavio Caruso Cc: freeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X3q958mRz3fWV X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=tquoyWKi; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of michaelsprivate@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=michaelsprivate@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.025]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.980]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.41)[-0.413]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d44:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 08:27:34 -0000 just one thing: it's not "set retab", but ":retab" (a command) On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 10:24 AM Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 05:10, Jacques Foucry > wrote: > > > > Le mardi 26 mai 2020 =C3=A0 21:54:10 (+0100), Ottavio Caruso via > freebsd-questions =C3=A0 =C3=A9crit: > > > > > > Hello friends, > > > > > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > > > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: > > > > > > > > Hiya, > > > > > > > > After all these years, I'm finally wanting to switch tabs to spaces > for > > > > certain documents (yaml comes to mind, python another), but I'm > finding > > > > the FreeBSD nvi lacks expandtab, yet OpenBSD's (as of 6.7) supports > this > > > > option. > > > > > > > > What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi= ? > > > > > > > > Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the > > > > feature from OpenBSD? > > > > > > After careful checking, the expandtab option was introduced to NetBSD > first: > > > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2008/12/10/msg001482.html > > > > > > by Luke Mewburn and probably backported to OpenBSD later. This has > > > never gone (I think) into FreeBSD base. If one wants to make a port > > > out of it, they can look at the pkgsrc port: > > > https://pkgsrc.se/editors/nvi > > > > > > and adjust Makefile, etc. > > > > > > Note that the $HOMEPAGE is 404 and the distfile is cached somewhere o= n > > > the NetBSD servers. > > > > Not sure to =E3=84=A9nderstand the problem. > > Yes, because you need to read the thread from the start. > > > > > Octavio want to switch tab to spaces in it's sources files. > > Actually, it's a NetBSD patch. > > > He use nvi (I > > don't, I use vim) and expandtab seems to not work. > > > > I =D8=A5ad the same issur with vim and discover the :retab command whic= h > actually > > does visualy the expandtab job. > > > > The sequesce is: > > :expantab > > :retab > > I use the latest vim and I don't have retab: > : set retab? > E518: Unknown option: retab? > > > > > Again I don't use nvi but I thingk that's could be =C3=A6 solution. > > > > Please execuse me if I am out of goal and my intervention is not in the > > subjet. > > As above ^. > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > --=20 Michael Schuster http://recursiveramblings.wordpress.com/ recursion, n: see 'recursion' From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 08:44:02 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8AD932BB79 for ; 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ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 08:44:02 -0000 Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? Sent from Outlook Mobile From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 09:42:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8473C32D875 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:42:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X5Tx3ltDz43mC for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: H87HRhoVM1mZj8Y3xtq9NBFuanIS9gQRrWMCLfynrKCOID1orF_q2V13CUg.mnp 0GvKk_TrYliwalHFaNMGYTTNipcAZ19c29.ExocehYjfS8w4.7s7v.aQskchZJhRg7MytM4SwDfg JijFi1CPI0RLyERJOmgzV80dMdzjKVZKa10KQJld1IHezODQQsATeFynEmqePhQrvJmeAsuA4f34 PwY2tLcQmDFgpGzg.BzlMwqeWmL_q8Gl3TUBWcZq0V_NYIl0sjPX7jNzVhVt8uH15GYm.nastm61 9Cnr0DhWKiplaMNUQ6_c1k0X9pde_bzyWYhi8SU8b.d3_CDstcZvMIiVF2UnpuqnXe6QMzmAbzM5 3U1adH9tkTBvAYodXhGd932M3OOi.m6O5i5EDaSb.ldejXWImKK6xhARm4rUoTFW1am_k5.Iz0bb 1f7Hkq75BB2Vxi0IvPk6dj_N.9QA_jb_kdvrT0sJPbMQH5FSBCwRrch_Gtb38WY_V5hREnyOs3_1 jQL3_lMrlKL0dE6PoevRPulbJcGrvBUJQNIHz8PGJiwsxN7EUkMJ9z.6LKhxVUXPrvfvEL.euxlE VWOhLhQNEHNipa2mZDqUYMFsz7Kim9p50_c_aQQvetqzJe0PiS0TS0AWgl2VoR7EVIEmnHH1gHEh QRyhdvcqrXac1RA88GdifuQ3pZqnboXFxbbS4CV0LRjQek45uSDL3nMqL17bS0q76pd1jV6uyK_l BzZd.6XeUJDh1w0sXHHrqa2NNcZ0n8c0LhmWtMxgPPEg5Pr5RUrD20X.fiWVFjLctfajhu6MfkQT z4sZTmPJdF73PudH9wBZ7JJh_gPlxOf6uYnhm.en9rQYRxfgL_qBJjPdNm4q_sTbEt9q.OsWtYQX d_T9Xq2fHxIYTGK4Dd8d4pZU8IdkDO9umeSnAbCwEuWrO8uD4Q9mjVFS14BBMlbYFAA3POjgg67i EFepTJzwZP_t9m6z0TfiKX_ugFxBdviwfNNYQXKKDUpj_VesQTnBaQKWCPO_MuR6FnC3y9Ux61cS XPrCt4pVSXtZb_wiPmtA4zJP3oyUZyMKy6TzkluKrXfA7z2Y2DKxNw1BvXl8oewHM_BasBIKLhvO t.9_OspF5a7.Pkp6L16vN_sGHbDL6ssbt_OBHjxt7_DLVwACkOEQUgjHHUGbZi2emWTJ._kCpQX7 mSVOUN5EerlhpneuDrfMrmTDOgfJNHSJHs5mFlYOBTb1t_hOwjL4qievH1L54.PXBeYzyE.XuCDK JlcUzUwSx5DIH2tNtdj0TA5Q57CRPE8PpuuDmqcLWkngGKUhilIAQ8xrlBbgkeILLD5oEoj3psrM GUdwofF_Tx_6x5PM_4i0FBGVKuTRX4n81d4KWXRkwwxbxjsPJzHmXmd0Fq3dXJXIfWyxef9ygN_z B8EnQWDGhWDJlhmb_lmAjfL0i.bLFmQ-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:42:44 +0000 Received: by smtp422.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8f5b34dd9e826c5de3f7d3091266e8ba; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:42:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pg1-f171.google.com with SMTP id 185so3315999pgb.10 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 02:42:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324eci3PqD+eWVgNFA0vtZPzpaEno8AcvtN6firZ8X7e6gQQ7zM 10HaFhVdvOtFkM6K29B/CL8LMEFPQPaeO19V2Ak= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxiR3CGPAdSrxGz2+2fcRnCIgr+JVjoyIT0W8U6gVAKTR0SrzM/Ge4893r/Hs1NJaC4GmlI7z8vP6jGELdpdho= X-Received: by 2002:a63:725d:: with SMTP id c29mr3059439pgn.243.1590572562027; Wed, 27 May 2020 02:42:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> <20200527041008.GD95043@mithril> In-Reply-To: From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:42:26 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: OT: vim, was: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: Michael Schuster Cc: freeBSD Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15959 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X5Tx3ltDz43mC X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.73 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.04)[-1.039]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.021]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.974]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.184.45:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.184.45:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 09:42:46 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 09:27, Michael Schuster wrote: > > just one thing: it's not "set retab", but ":retab" (a command) > [It makes it difficult to reply in context if you top post] Still, you have to do this periodically. "expandtab" will do this automatically when pressing tabs. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 09:45:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D076C32D946 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:45:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic317-34.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X5XY0mGzz443d for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:45:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: v0AEtO4VM1lYY8djOqj81_MaTLst1J9qto7uSgXWhaEp7aIbHEVB2slBvoY4g9v 9necoCRAzc5oOlnEhG91M3fGSPi9laPtEbiFT980OjuLmIDDgAYIoGM3cv2ndkZhdGrvgW80Hjuj YXQHYL.l2TUjykkrYUQOQUXPZSYDjv43pbx7AET2AnDtBE_G7pjj_OyQkaB0V6CiME9RmDgZeV.Q xsiLVnKVe_IkIJhogxSQM0bBX6ed3xA0_0pVWg5dk0LCWslp5hZjISIor0yNKLql1JuUqelrklwn qxaOtG1NQCihPDSHhHCfVMu1nlEMILb15vC1TGbjBOsDJVS7j.e_f1ZeFESdrXwO.psfzUV.vG2d IwHXZLN0ZSnfrQHYoDFhL8W7R5WTUnNS9eMaCZRjxu_t1n5oDhSsMeiIkdoaEluj_D07BzSOziav uNr8VcphNsP6V2o1qmFmOnkSghyPvoP16vbo96iGxqybaDDwkbIn63qJSqboZNGwyNc.dOxRCFpE iCDZlz4zeMrwthNRd0c7tKokYjUo_OfjE8hge5_wO4opubA8O2lfcIjXGoMBcK872AFICS6pCg4V OVtodqyhJiHH4SF00aXRo1zmKlFJNyk6xaZWpIJXioC1ZXMY6vAUfl2eC4rKSDeAWyGQmhhBQZez AGCfgusE8tLqGLNXJby_mW3NBH7X6yUtdO9zvdYQzgvhzeunjAkdrjG_xt5f_ijdzp99SARaJqCE jlV5bky0Odi8wq0ZFBueXcn5CE0OKkat_w.xcu9MvDmt3T48JL6l9q2trynHoa.yO8_qIJWA9Nq0 986tVpl90jG2iZQwA6IKrAzP0sFrx9O3HX8oQL9TrhEpqqtHdsREnI95W9UX.dRIb0Qh38l2D.Gr pKsjjO5_RRXFpNy0lrrqzlPhAx2m_yHGe1h4zMydv0zsGVcAHnXjoDEqg15Eq7ARBrb2A2v_frUr DjVyCR1l9dyQqj_7DFACvM_z0Jzt2Oi8xXfp0kKnoU4uzCXi_4snfhx4AoKemoglAr7oiNe5g93B nHH5hmZ9G5eCO_cuNt4azauyGupWnP.c30mrfNt7XHnpx0.P5BhyEces7ET7WfZdzdvNhEG1oy_Z dW8sbvTHmiE2wkBBH83VzlhZZFdcmX3LiRMnniHG8SURhNn5XXtQtU5DhKVmZmJ7om043HnRpZJy gSz.LOIMGYABNVLdkVl4mAS8QVEMdGbqU.tVNIXbp9fcSg8qpxD5GWFohIYCVoiYnfNd7Vw26Wxl 78b2CCwpzjjhyBDU_YY.Pi.cDZPSB7yR0nn55M69p26T4OnEbo0r55btg5ohQTfBF0310RXUQss3 2sxsn.tjhnkNPAXct8mLeOYdat56_7L6ZluEXG0NdUn2dSoZ2ONC9SV9Vmn19eICDhGnzufeGs0S DYiwrnvLBFxC9JLuxSAj94vQueuk_TaeyKoQ- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic317.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:44:59 +0000 Received: by smtp424.mail.gq1.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID dd22a04cdb35b1c5933118e521f4b728; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:44:58 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pf1-f179.google.com with SMTP id z64so7086277pfb.1 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533YbPzoJRlhRbwgK+3eA0s7OlIUPa8g+6QP7xa3TyRwoBtVV4NV Oaci/vsPeEG18GXtqGr9AF4Gbl7LF4oOa5uM/Lk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwdB4dm1H8cmxljzrjCkMpWyx4YDa4fkT7qvpee8JbohcSX+mXloO2DvHHMcxIboeXAZsxKH8SakKSGHO3hd3s= X-Received: by 2002:a63:3c11:: with SMTP id j17mr3302785pga.70.1590572698359; Wed, 27 May 2020 02:44:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:44:42 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15959 hermes_yahoo Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X5XY0mGzz443d X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.887]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.03)[-1.030]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.980]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[brandon.helsley@hotmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[66.163.184.45:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[66.163.184.45:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 09:45:01 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 09:43, Brandon helsley wrote: > > Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? > Who "they"? The only BSD-related certification I know of is the LPI BSD Specialist. Yes, you've heard it right. LPI. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 12:14:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 957F333110F for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:14:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X8rr34kPz4Gyx for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:14:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.10.43]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue011 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MG9To-1jnpVu0mtg-00GXfa; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:14:10 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:14:09 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ottavio Caruso Cc: Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions , Brandon helsley Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:B7UD0zMYBJ6C962CG7fzzSEFEov6c7SIsl0ZyiaG6PF+VQN+JzM izgUXXNhg0PBE1L2atP+LTDWvH90CD0szAdfXcsGdSEeJPbr+72MUc4UbYE4EJsqPfkctrj X9RvquztVNJpPdgsUO3WYWRdHjLFkS86sUezzSA6eKRDNu1R+9YMZPLsh/gAtxPgJv/Bm/Q hz9V9amtgNltmTaXr62Pw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:2bOI9mtOLBE=:6hnKVrtRE/Ie9QT/ne+RYt QAeAqhC5dB2UdNGCdWDEMa/wZdbAYgVp0uSH+tXCBrY8jYn2Dq2pRftF8WMadoaCOKe4Mq8fk NI+jKXqT9MuIFZVbQ1IeDQNOGXb7Og6TzxiRK2rbHZswZYgI6U/np84xdo4Wj2UZGu7cHKmP/ NoeZIYzIBguO/ZcU9GH1raUCiu1W8WlPg89ftibzcx6E+JElcUqQ5MWjfy8tgM7AgvkQnwG/6 N0DrnJenzZw4lMQOrUG8QuPBppi72I1hICHxJYXpoTMpd0pZXSWzH9sf7yhu6o+nPPJhHGSt/ rEOnaW/H5ri02DRMLpIbzS/h4rW80Dvu0p87EduHyy9xGQFq0JwflJarJC2rHQa1X2U6ct1s/ 1LMuI4JmfyRX8Uqt3GH/beHqtYwfPhmPSnR19Bs2ANhS2Zl6T08tReYA/kwLfhvAoCuLjVCqW aUeJ5/BD/SpCQ01kfVBSs8XxNTvEbBZEqaemU/H3t57aRGYrceCRkgV8hluI+idxJD9WukHCc tfRSIC+q8mzfRiEYVjrqSfHcBp5Z24QoiVQa0Hz+RQ0oeePYrcvVfnpkx3ockz3OUp+9PCYh9 cSyISXc32AVnI/hRYh340DqG4WE1jk0myDmQLpIL+YtasJ69UowzlhNuNfafY1wG9nn+6jEvS 3ZsOZh1rtVHaYYCWZPSz2uvg3MGpClE6f7gbgNkyKtYKAP9Sem6aHW8+9ahmfj/0Z9sMakAKO Y6dPWpx1upKGEEtR9Gf4PWkvrC501CkSvFoVypV3Ifle7SBSuQcQWm6lS5rZyMJN7BHItHQQn KATwUWsajqEQCyEAMcjdgxupP9vSnfHoJxpUE+SWazwIJC7AP8o7se85nv7KlCFpJNcf9Dr X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49X8rr34kPz4Gyx X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.126.130) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.16 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.10.43:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.27)[0.270]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.46)[-0.465]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.96)[0.955]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.126.130:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.126.130:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[freebsd.org,hotmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:14:21 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 10:44:42 +0100, Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 09:43, Brandon helsley > wrote: > > > > Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? > > > > Who "they"? > > The only BSD-related certification I know of is the LPI BSD Specialist. > > Yes, you've heard it right. LPI. "FreeBSD - the professional Linux" -- some german computer magazine many years ago. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 12:38:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B01E7331721 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10olkn2034.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.41.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49X9PD2tVyz4JH4 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=FyMfY0JVsrl+A56MqjQxqsO+cr3HooYmeR9enG4u90jJHlW+CkBYqjFxyURmY0JJVCda4Yht4cjq8Vm862IxeTdYcbf7pxszQWzVTwyDP56TiZa7GQU7QR/Ul5FPYtBToP0Tv/R5uH6sBRyHtS10KCZW1omzmCEeV7MlROX88FA/zo4WjvDCATC5+PXhyZQaBKtQm/GCbj/koNT0AiP8tgHbuab/U/RqdO0Dp2ZBPDG52blTyyinVesfQ1dbxH87Zj8MBfoPxBhO0UQB1gMDEARPX2dL902OxreOogQaJOg0E3TkSCZLLBv7NbenVlg2ocPtub7bgFHNju5dJeMdJA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:54 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::51) by DM6NAM10FT056.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::346) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:54 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d]) by CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d%12]) with mapi id 15.20.3021.029; Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:54 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon CC: Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqi7rt4AgAApwoCAAAarxg== Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:9ED3DD70B8FFC4D9BD5C26FF466E73F5260F09EACC5E6F648C57E1C138BE1887; 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dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=fEcSMOdI; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.41.34 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.15 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.41.34:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.995]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.41.34:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.15)[-1.148]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:57 -0000 What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Polytropon Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 6:14:09 AM To: Ottavio Caruso Cc: Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions ; B= randon helsley Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, 27 May 2020 10:44:42 +0100, Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wr= ote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020 at 09:43, Brandon helsley > wrote: > > > > Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? > > > > Who "they"? > > The only BSD-related certification I know of is the LPI BSD Specialist. > > Yes, you've heard it right. LPI. "FreeBSD - the professional Linux" -- some german computer magazine many years ago. ;-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 13:32:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733D8332B2A for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XBbH1lwlz4NTl for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 3C1DD332AB4; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:43 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD3F332B98 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from mailout.easydns.com (mailout.easydns.com [64.68.202.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XBbG2Szlz4NPL for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3549DC0D86; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mailout.easydns.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (emo12-pco.easydns.vpn [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mFUeAac4mU7y; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from hedeland.org (81-228-157-209-no289.tbcn.telia.com [81.228.157.209]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailout.easydns.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1C552C0D7F; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from pluto.hedeland.org (pluto.hedeland.org [10.1.1.5]) by tellus.hedeland.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 04RDWWOl019002 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Wed, 27 May 2020 15:32:33 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from per@hedeland.org) Subject: Re: rEFInd and _two_ FREEBSD systems on the same disk on the same UEFI laptop To: Masachika ISHIZUKA Cc: salvatorembartolotta@libero.it, questions@freebsd.org References: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> <20200527.154010.456241527955787106.ish@amail.plala.or.jp> From: Per Hedeland Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:32:32 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200527.154010.456241527955787106.ish@amail.plala.or.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XBbG2Szlz4NPL X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of per@hedeland.org has no SPF policy when checking 64.68.202.10) smtp.mailfrom=per@hedeland.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.12 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[64.68.202.10:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.90)[-0.896]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[hedeland.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.07)[0.070]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[81.228.157.209:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.10)[-0.096]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16686, ipnet:64.68.200.0/22, country:CA]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[libero.it,freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 13:32:43 -0000 On 2020-05-27 08:40, Masachika ISHIZUKA wrote: >> Has anyone installed two BSD (say -RELEASE and -STABLE) on the same disk on the same UEFI machine using rEFInd? > > I'm using rEFInd and /dev/ada0p9 is / for 12.1-release and > /dev/ada0p10 is / for 13-current. > > I copied /boot/loader.efi (from current) to /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi. > > /EFI/refind/refind.conf is like the following. > > menuentry FreeBSD-release { > loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi > options "rootdev=disk0p9 autoboot_delay=1" > icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-release.png > } > > menuentry FreeBSD-current { > loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi > options "rootdev=disk0p10 autoboot_delay=1" > icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-current.png > } Brilliant! I successfully replaced my ugly hack with this approach. Thanks! --Per From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 13:53:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFD89333690 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:53:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) Received: from pmta11.teksavvy.com (pmta11.teksavvy.com [76.10.157.34]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.teksavvy.com", Issuer "DigiCert SHA2 High Assurance Server CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XC3R0XYGz4Q5M for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:53:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) IronPort-SDR: Hn3o+7a+6mErlogxPfMSmH7nTldf7NM//nEIQTtjRHXHMXLkFf8J3C5EiiNFH/pe3avh9GRk4k j88fz0a+ADJw== X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GlBQA8cM5e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQc?= =?us-ascii?q?BARIBAQQEAQFAB4FDWYFQL0BUASASLIQliQGFdzsYBQGBMwSDc5d5CwEBAQ4?= =?us-ascii?q?jDAQBAQKEQgKCFAIlOBMCAwEBCwEBAQUBAQEBAQYEAgJphVcMg1V+AQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARYCb1sBBSMVHiMQCxgCAiYCAlcGDQYCAQGDIgGCVyU?= =?us-ascii?q?PrgmBMoQ6AYYuE3sqjVeBB4E4gmk+gmcDgUIBAYM0gmAEmTiZdwgCglSIKpA?= =?us-ascii?q?wI4JkjWYnjReFB4pwikuUFQyBaiOBVh9cgy4JCT4YDZlGhV4lAzACNQIGCAE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAwmNNwEB?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2GlBQA8cM5e/0StpUVmHAEBAQEBAQcBARIBAQQEAQFAB?= =?us-ascii?q?4FDWYFQL0BUASASLIQliQGFdzsYBQGBMwSDc5d5CwEBAQ4jDAQBAQKEQgKCF?= =?us-ascii?q?AIlOBMCAwEBCwEBAQUBAQEBAQYEAgJphVcMg1V+AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBARYCb1sBBSMVHiMQCxgCAiYCAlcGDQYCAQGDIgGCVyUPrgmBMoQ6AYYuE?= =?us-ascii?q?3sqjVeBB4E4gmk+gmcDgUIBAYM0gmAEmTiZdwgCglSIKpAwI4JkjWYnjReFB?= =?us-ascii?q?4pwikuUFQyBaiOBVh9cgy4JCT4YDZlGhV4lAzACNQIGCAEBAwmNNwEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,441,1583211600"; d="scan'208";a="136529331" Received: from 69-165-173-68.dsl.teksavvy.com (HELO mail.razorfever.net) ([69.165.173.68]) by smtp11.teksavvy.com with ESMTP/TLS/ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256; 27 May 2020 09:53:37 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4]) by mail.razorfever.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04RDrZl0072280; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:53:35 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from 482254ac@razorfever.net) X-Authentication-Warning: mail.razorfever.net: Host mail.razorfever.net [192.168.0.4] claimed to be [127.0.0.1] Subject: Re: nvi expandtab - tabs to spaces To: FreeBSD Mailing List References: <0c30ebf7-e5b1-6fcb-d81e-2a039415f8a1@chezmarcotte.ca> From: "Derek (freebsd lists)" <482254ac@razorfever.net> Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 09:53:35 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED, FROM_STARTS_WITH_NUMS,RP_MATCHES_RCVD autolearn=disabled version=3.4.1 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.4.1 (2015-04-28) on mail.razorfever.net X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XC3R0XYGz4Q5M X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 482254ac@razorfever.net has no SPF policy when checking 76.10.157.34) smtp.mailfrom=482254ac@razorfever.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.01 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.50)[-0.505]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[razorfever.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.03)[0.029]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.333]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:5645, ipnet:76.10.128.0/19, country:CA]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[76.10.157.34:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 13:53:39 -0000 On 2020-05-26 4:54 p.m., Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 14:48, Derek (freebsd lists) > <482254ac@razorfever.net> wrote: >> What is the canonical way to use space indentation in FreeBSD's nvi? >> >> Is there any appetite (from committers) for a patch/import of the >> feature from OpenBSD? > > After careful checking, the expandtab option was introduced to NetBSD first: > http://mail-index.netbsd.org/tech-userlevel/2008/12/10/msg001482.html > > by Luke Mewburn and probably backported to OpenBSD later. This has > never gone (I think) into FreeBSD base Great read by the way. Thanks for sharing! Commentary is... as expected? I can't push that hard. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 14:13:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED39333D10 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XCTy1w76z4RN0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.117.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 227FA1A5E3 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:13:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from PD0786.local (130.31-255-62.static.virginmediabusiness.co.uk [62.255.31.130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 797F41B337 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:13:07 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/797F41B337; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> From: matthew@FreeBSD.org Message-ID: <29513205-60f7-29b6-ace7-5253a1862c59@infracaninophile.co.uk> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:13:06 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:13:10 -0000 On 27/05/2020 13:38, Brandon helsley wrote: > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good learning experience? These are roles that people can have within the FreeBSD project. Anyone can become a port maintainer -- which means you take over responsibility for keeping a port up to date, handling any problems or security vulnerabilities that may occur with it, and frequently reporting upstream on bugs or improvements discovered through the ports. Port maintainers do not need to be ports committers -- although ports committers are all port maintainers. If you become a port maintainer for a number of ports and make a sufficient contribution to the project, ultimately you will be punished with a commit bit. That means you can commit changes to the Ports SVN (or Git, once they get the migration finished). Now, as a new ports committer you are assigned one or two mentors who will teach you the ropes and review any commits you want to make for a matter of a few weeks up to several months. Basically until they are satisfied that you're capable of being able to commit stuff on your own recognizance without making a complete pig's ear of it. As the new committer, you have mentors: to the mentors, you are their mentee. Yes, it is good experience to have. Being involved in a big OSS project like FreeBSD stands out on a Curriculum Vitae and I've found it helps when job hunting, even if prospective employers aren't using FreeBSD much. Cheers, Matthew From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 14:33:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E68633415B for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:33:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd42.google.com (mail-io1-xd42.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XCxG60ktz4SyZ for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:33:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd42.google.com with SMTP id y5so3338920iob.12 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 07:33:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=LaR6GBoUutM9B/Yj2vYVzI5VdMHPdjY/8cAWIOaDbng=; b=Av8y+1b+E86+4uOureSQA4Y6uMakLV8IoMY22YZ/FHXHA9tXykrEI5VKrDmjynDA+D VOgwhJ+P8KyZhLD2VdGMqWF6GtgLElTnNYOwJ6Mcce9zfm/8K8vE4vaW24DZTn+PAbcD z8NLZKnyHlDzDEOLPLA3rJWmbv6clDWRBI+bD4XWWQKMyU0PjDZEbxRQLxdKXqDw49dH uXFLlhuC4d4pFrYI4oQd43w3qJ5zeq85bCmngGKjgVGlz4rb6/A86k4OWyIBLKYhXT5E gX4gXUpcdj+h4cf7y89s07q9nNxcQl2+pqqBOmmiybchl83DVrucnasKiNwQOJA3dk62 O0Bw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=LaR6GBoUutM9B/Yj2vYVzI5VdMHPdjY/8cAWIOaDbng=; b=R15a+1oWDhxnZAeN17Z8g8VR4p95x6qsZy1gfRx6cEoS/i5LgcPtvdiSiF6VDNP5Zz 1mScJnhs16iKv/gvD8SP6hU11L+Moi/kn1usHpXQxQpoZ8UlJenCPqIllchYUO2DxlRh U2wGk3FpmkTZ/Rb3ilINEJ3YlGd5kX3gnYtb9MPGWrW54U317DKOf2x1QHDfI4i94bVO ahZ6LBBdAuk/bzuZAiFBHUXCWb4vwbdAlidqrW3bYJUXQHRLHNFrXQ5jqk8DEC+TwgC1 Asfv6yJKbtqnh7GBhwqDR3PUwpRT+Fh+KQTLAAOhbUvPefmaRdLwG8rOPZqZutMm7vsJ ToWQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532q+lm1Ze0vFdgZpNGD+Mta61c6CHk08AB2cFcZaFNeWmLA2Kuo cJ1B4vRqDZKtGyFnU4BLw7NpdTbGB6D+wXqp3pw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzZnGinM84fwEPYwCBJiafKQgNAAswHk+VCP6NsvcUAWy2x0wjMGcoIV2MAE2A485MVmP0ZfH6v7w3wjwsMjFg= X-Received: by 2002:a02:ca12:: with SMTP id i18mr5822096jak.138.1590590001917; Wed, 27 May 2020 07:33:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 10:33:10 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XCxG60ktz4SyZ X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Av8y+1b+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.42 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.41)[-0.406]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.013]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:33:23 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley wrote: > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 15:36:43 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AABD5335D14 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:36:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM02-SN1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092005046.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.5.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XFLL4BT2z4YjZ for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:36:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=LPVX0PGod74DDssCRLdX2DRmccTbbRg5tme/a/Qk2Mb7vceK0J8/guKqqkhjndXW5vM2eoy6SRCWo0p/FSjYHupidvSLHCLHuknmrPxFFdx1GKfcuBaNE+4LrhpbgJauGnIIjRz6SBb6TTgA4XyEn4XX77EFAYMhiz5x1F1gREjTygl3E/jLvDm8DU80TB2lLaDE7lIoWH9Cx7KGWNChLnxf7PBWAxM0eq9YtXvj5wcIkVy+I+L752+9YhV74YEunSLEAZap2jRaAslLBatmV2MumMcz5UZLbrLgm/DMPOZddYQ92zGLAcxQ8DmHJ0RCtJVp78j4wHAHBfu592zF6w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.5.46:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.5.46:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:36:43 -0000 How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 15:48:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5D8336131 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:48:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XFcQ09pLz4b6s for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id h10so26480382iob.10 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:48:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cQeUbaw99QBZcNTBdtHx0TdTqEGzNeNV13uzKJtfS0E=; b=ECo5au77FxUgzu/nppYRs1uozGPpJbymMBGje6easQR1yYyaoWBvOQIVAKFH6Bsnu8 ztziTpcgox2w6Qf2m0mgsP1Pbu8QDIYNUxjYObUQqaEMyZQjQO0uFWQ/YVc1tlzjThbo bPk+icWXf5WYTqL/v3uXZWRCF+/kJbPDJc1VRoCgW85qLnvQCJ/q/I3emhno0dvr1AQb ln7xVP1ISKdATrMFTWgtlmwTzciMu3HRRFG32DmObsPtp/eMToI8p4avTJGk8Wt4j2XZ 0zBQjfH0ug8fbHd9EQNn59YqT2b2tpMvsAeLFkcXGcm3mWxrPjDJ9Jaw4mCtaDlp0lm9 EJqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cQeUbaw99QBZcNTBdtHx0TdTqEGzNeNV13uzKJtfS0E=; b=TXgAredm15WVQHWIBQ2lEqWD1bWKRIkUJq7G5VVFQyAVVvx5xiiP1297owBi7YLDuQ pLJJPAqur65GF2iHCeFClXdqog201lsB8J98VQgXYoCW4putaF1ApNt2vQUr+hISliRl 5XQ5ji3PCcFtjN3s0s0KAwYo3ug1MMA1ILZyTqMrQ5cvdw8K1kd3yF8OJEDCw9zDn1gY uVuWa1idYDaeSWD3mWWxEOzDEAE5Um9JJzRdpEmh2DK3MgWAUNBNwm51hU/fONxcncCO cAzPB2jGX52lyM8IKH6zCabNjqhj28JCYyg1zqXzd8S3swsj4euR/OII//ejMBUS1VHo b4GQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5339b+DiCg2JOery1wJjZnNRhsrNV7Z16EwXKbBgs8GBwYCndacG 0TG8cwGZKJOve7QlvYuqcniL7Fy3K+Z9ujcq1jQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwuZ8lgH4BBR4GxuH03jQc8FsQEf0NZMHlkJARzyYnK+ag9oahDxxWS/0WOkrF+7IInCNiKLo2x5Uckn00CRGc= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:2815:: with SMTP id d21mr13561645ioe.174.1590594531386; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:48:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:48:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XFcQ09pLz4b6s X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ECo5au77; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.590]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:48:55 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 15:53:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30C8133614F for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM11-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam11olkn2085.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.19.85]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XFjJ6Mptz4bgK for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nj8XNkVc69slZOgJXDWwDcUuluSTZlrB4pGhoOX5xe4WatnLPXncVmlvBl1H09B4swTPOwwEl8vQw84v8s6DuQ0VE/YPgDqQxq8t57ShPnuBk0/gd8lbOtTC2sSKKStNXdJrh2UqJwkXHSI6cr5pdlpcCElXv5P3hLB0OlL7n6ZLosKXxfYr92g4OGtrTmhg4qLa7O2V8YavzUB4BEf5pLRL/SvDMk+VYCjXYWE6KYzbaQUB+5z4/wXCTCGQ/CRZXgTH3iTNSrT+824yDOzJ8pB61/ovh+fvQ3R3iPxcr2mWr3/yv+YOuMpVn9PykGhO0fbdiAguijQ8XyvSFHNVMg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:07 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4d::46) by DM6NAM11FT033.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4d::221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:07 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d]) by CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d%12]) with mapi id 15.20.3021.029; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:07 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Aryeh Friedman CC: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqi7rt4AgAApwoCAAAarxoAAICwAgAARDAuAAAQLgIAAAPf7 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:A7AF77431E844E43C6D6704B583233683C7E125715453335FC313C27228EDCFA; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.19.85:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.19.85:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:53:10 -0000 Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 15:57:44 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B1A33656A for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:57:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x144.google.com (mail-il1-x144.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::144]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XFpb3LpCz4c1M for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 15:57:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x144.google.com with SMTP id q18so3396592ilm.5 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:57:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=MbZzvSZbKggDVQs1K22TjGgyJon2eYcYrT6r43CZ6e8=; b=rNneIX+HTr6uWRGU25BHMrCn4tvO9BnoS8rw6mviZgdubumcT4E3ZVWgzfkEAp/dwd iuLThQi3kS0V81vN3hUIXxAjR59EWUuSt0wgTmK7AYUsijJn3WRHcxLa8RNxg18dJvgR PKg9fnvBNP8xRqrEO2IpbsMSD39Ogpj2Q0+9pt+ScX3AX31qy7D9nXeI3uL7m+OavrJ5 yZfRNUQ4lr0ZSph7Ipujs/RAsJnq4OHKMKNkqE5VhUvgF7Kvso5HP5IkZCO9GDL5eZxH 0KqLGoqziNOrXC8hGeoiT+YTuQxqzVFRbLcRc/bT86TZVuY1I5yaGB1QCnaO6M0nxjD2 2dnw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MbZzvSZbKggDVQs1K22TjGgyJon2eYcYrT6r43CZ6e8=; b=SRl1huxiSgHC33CH+95CeULjNJNN448kNGd9xph+WCaj96U+5/AltdxIGZK24fJE29 7vjAEIq4nLNrn+OssG/oEqVaBrzBSMnQhgvlmeKLp6v8lyjzi1EAPChlHoEtG3K+Q8zE ztBVTYFq1SJ45tGPJyJbo3O1UR4vuWGnmEu6NyclpvqN0V08/Cj6gYT9Tx6bKOAFVvgL Lr/jvtALswnzzD7mZAvJ7f2j1++cxRlP+EG9+2M/0lVTjKRQvWAwHuaKEKKQrIvU17kz i59LAC8NB+WVH4/7DsUZ3OW2FMGSD3AJfMLiEKtWuitSOlQ1tmvVLJfScKYfZzKQdfFV 9RWg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Pm4wqAYD6r7s6XnyD9gdDVIfd4+OlzKSFsj4/ZTUQ9HCABOo/ lbIk9gSPIQWQUjk6gxqWSMpEMDH50h/fPyPgo19Yufq/ X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxpm8c0qKMwLuduDS2sIvUV1q6PcBC6eD3o9rr3dTVkOsoI1JzLqWITxWaWDk3ZEq+WrMWgB/a/rh8MN8qIMAg= X-Received: by 2002:a92:6b10:: with SMTP id g16mr6271069ilc.29.1590595062116; Wed, 27 May 2020 08:57:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 11:57:30 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XFpb3LpCz4c1M X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=rNneIX+H; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::144 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.589]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::144:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 15:57:44 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a > committer? Does that require skills? > 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made into ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programming required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong) and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this comes from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the porting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master repo. > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least > basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code > that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then > include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:02:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FE13336863 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10olkn2091.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.40.91]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XFvp3dYPz4cMH for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Ln/e6ORbpFffmEZw6M3T29RNX8zjaUOPk2XdNPIM0xF8hRsy5Rgx1QnXA2oGMagHAUx8+BVPRxF0f3FiBasHCTv65xWyo+3ILSUzlFNOh1vtjHDqzOLPwuo3FT3M/LrqKwMNboJxbvcs6MXguszNav1SKnb37Shl6fW5yJRMu+SmqlsMBizjxDqQ9bJTc01eZE8PPM+ohUS2SLqenkuGZukwwpsNDkb7lbpQ7SW7bHM9jXTb1pe067oB3cppfXX7iwarzNvpveacZRegxC8LjMkN0Iy9SqFt9cKmJZEdLgqOljuMTVQFPGqdNpTxCDY5fcg5AaDW/qyYJdYRmywRtQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:13 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::52) by DM6NAM10FT064.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:13 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d]) by CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d%12]) with mapi id 15.20.3021.029; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:13 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Aryeh Friedman CC: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqi7rt4AgAApwoCAAAarxoAAICwAgAARDAuAAAQLgIAAAPf7gAABggCAAACoRQ== Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:13 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:5707197C379D0060CD6902EF93CDF37F4932C8BADD354A82CDF7D623D870D174; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.40.91:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.40.91:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:02:15 -0000 I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll de= finitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made in= to ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programmin= g required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong)= and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder = things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this come= s from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the por= ting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master= repo. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:07:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79A69336948 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:07:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x142.google.com (mail-il1-x142.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::142]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XG256pw8z4crV for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:07:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x142.google.com with SMTP id 9so6091260ilg.12 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:07:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=7wbdOZwaCEsWM5nmtYdyMM2+P/xDGGZf/4hVRvRoHHI=; b=LuI35mSCiRY4/29mG4gIaqirSQ2DnENCA9wyXMWMIioZfupS9lit8HHbqMkUMT0Jfm S/szoKm7Y4ePYzGn8kAkx4RrScsrVlwLr+REXqvGpq0nU35kqCg8Jy0SUgVcdDSqeT7d WuL/Ry5Dwa4E1oSZf/CEHZwx9I85+KPMRp+/g91prhN0oME2ZELFF/Yz7raa5XkZkGYl VClh8AU5ZIZKwM3Hun+wj5ERi+eQeZyeT0MIcoBGbwBnC8WPD2ofRPwa6aXLbZxZSQPE PKaeFWudBciM6/9JZ2hEQxGJ2YKomchHUDkqx6Z1vRti4WuyhWda51u1paLMPKH/AXtR JCOA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=7wbdOZwaCEsWM5nmtYdyMM2+P/xDGGZf/4hVRvRoHHI=; b=XbkXkdJygCfzYHupbVb5YDEhEY5ewrI06PO+f9z4EzDM8PmVL8oJO3bGiyAHiJx83d UZ3wk83ylypzO4THVac/TbfQcCkWOi/sUJBZx9uvqByhiW1zQKXk015YmzQX/FM/zvu/ D637xUkAttNGvZjiLzjeoPm5pdSFIBvQG5itYRCJaobLnTbEaFGcXP2IzWqgwnb4n2jE PKNbVpYdZ8TbQpEY9G8vRm7RFlmC/wzsol20jPAWyn1ugIbAnMNjXtoUXZZJzhpvEExv yt1AnK6eyY3XqAL3+3a/cFJEp/kNNlas+5QZRM6fWkdiOYLOSA2BmyZcqoPAfexuuSme y3MQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530rJfINSDX5NLVRy9wF6Vj/T90I/fVysRXSebBkIhtH8vPvg+rz 7bEftBX17tuWpEOm6keOrfQbD1XpwZuQ1wZFGaQ= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJywaA69GXX7W4xpLbCovqe4JUGScwkT7WWpVTnMDmAyME+2QvirCyuuWI7QUmqDWQvgTGUJ8WcH3ZTBKF9EbzE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:610:: with SMTP id t16mr6236437ils.187.1590595660588; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:07:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:07:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XG256pw8z4crV X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=LuI35mSC; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::142 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.60 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.59)[-0.590]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::142:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:07:42 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll > definitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? > Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the FreeBSD community Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing model (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) Step 3: Get the source code for the program Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to compile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark it ready for a committer to review and commit it Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a > committer? Does that require skills? > > > 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made > into ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no > programming required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my > job wrong) and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move > to harder things that require programming > > 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not > things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this > comes from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the > porting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the > master repo. > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least > basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code > that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then > include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:35:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47D7E33793B for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:35:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10olkn2074.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.42.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGfM0Q5Zz3RPT for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:35:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Y5ROHjFyH+CajqvfPcOeDsEN39QF9Y5SvKGoxW/9MRaWMMuTO4zv2gkFtCQsoJq1H4k+/RLO1XGDT61dwElfGbk3tSKG5nHpw1dGuPPzWhKTe6mbBwBHOnlDHWcuWPNPCOVd2M9ArLxelaS4Vezz8IlDZfyXg5+mL9VGsVgox+USMdMaiNJvh9RU4bCW3AhRfjG9jY1bI0K4c0jgkvenYLat9Cdmu+pM2bMoAVqOCgp4zdm2bdX9x0GJj5YlArgj/oWUNcIdq/hE09lxeN+m7si74sJPIamiCrfG/04GyLAOQR1C29/hx3fBAUh5I52ZhG9Rf1E5IB1tDbKBoUZWvw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.42.74:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.42.74:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:35:40 -0000 So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code = and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll de= finitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the = FreeBSD community Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing mod= el (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) Step 3: Get the source code for the program Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to c= ompile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark it= ready for a committer to review and commit it Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made in= to ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programmin= g required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong)= and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder = things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this come= s from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the por= ting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master= repo. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:39:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D093379D3 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:39:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x141.google.com (mail-il1-x141.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::141]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGkR3Lkxz3RmS for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:39:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x141.google.com with SMTP id y17so22479143ilg.0 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:39:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=93dk9d9eub76KbeX26fQmYvm+RnPFi83PWIcMV11mRs=; b=bwVSzf6tezjGevc9ZSsVP2x5PsMmQOazE3bcKS1pubH8sd/h4dyg289UrHzEYgBBnL MJlg2RKVpQRTo6BYoNiuvUcBMcEa1x3dnYoZjjthdbkVXTy9GSOiyCRS55xMun+e5Wgu hV1ruKW5Bf4gHIiREvfNfLKZswDgNSiRvTi1zhYPDYrz3mzTDxgczO2x2gzS7C/6OtWx e/EUesxRElBzeJFf81AdIM8/oY+AYYwHh5mnktIbSXrv60p7kciL+xv6WFhIsu7KfT03 CpVNXl0tdIm73n6f5vnjr7Xi/DVNAjCTKmMTCF1DInwM6CYBrRBT2UzEsFR6tiakG8vK LKgw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=93dk9d9eub76KbeX26fQmYvm+RnPFi83PWIcMV11mRs=; b=lA7VngR/mVROYveS1fgVe9UdsPzzzNz3O5aWOKu/qdmqx6sRzdoGbjatRvczFvbH/C cNsLKUHqtPuuULOT8Z15lGC4AIYSkrRJVdx+PwkL83UYkvdORpW04EXNXf95Rss8Xs+L HY9En8M3IAutcH8QlaimHzmQQeiZKN6RNeuiUYdXfRjgl8YB//V/+0muNEWOSgmBi8pu Q2TdbSLS9wQvlovJEdpFHdpANpV/NI5d9RsFSKe7utDkYMb3zMYwA3VeN7T7pWzJfS2o E94hzGtMHbd2vdaMrOQsWgSUotUBlNPUk/GJhZq0pIfIKHOFmkrSmizLCsE4Hfn1/x9C oAog== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530Mt/QmZNWuVKk/7JWmUm0M25BNXgdDiOqCN2Ul2NO0k8b/VZqJ Jre7H4L0jX4KRUSkzBNXQmaRbnPHfmaqhPyDeck= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzwduCk2iA11cIfrSK9at7jw7hHGpCHRdReVCJHEQHzpiD3fBqlCfbQXZgi/njdDpe/UEqf2StNnRCWw6CNVgA= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:610:: with SMTP id t16mr6385742ils.187.1590597549127; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:39:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:38:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XGkR3Lkxz3RmS X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=bwVSzf6t; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::141 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.342]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::141:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:39:13 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code > and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? > You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where the flamewar on licensing often starts): https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll > definitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? > > > Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the > FreeBSD community > Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing > model (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) > Step 3: Get the source code for the program > Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to > compile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on > Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 > Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark > it ready for a committer to review and commit it > Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests > Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a > committer? Does that require skills? > > > 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made > into ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no > programming required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my > job wrong) and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move > to harder things that require programming > > 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not > things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this > comes from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the > porting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the > master repo. > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least > basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code > that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then > include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:41:53 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A7D1337B61 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-BN7-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn7nam10olkn20829.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:7e8a::829]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGnW6mqNz3S4P for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=DFbOre+BQme3oq+58nFJQlkFuO68+iGc6adU3sFugT0LctX93a3mOSB6UyJ1Fl4rQCUloS2aGve22B/rbosAc0m7Vo7kg4ng0a8ZyevSz3xbRiAMQTp3ghz7cWIraoV+dhaFSBcxg7SmvsHlOv/XjmUt+xnOKBfIH/vn4Um8QbFA4VCSHjLwpjAz33E7JDD570qbDurZ8bX+HH3n3CIlZBrlbwqjRcaARhqFkQB2iq6NVNxeQKBGU/YqXJkkYGlYV38XbabzwEzbqRAnMXIR6Y0/d+iMfSBZg+kJbrFACCDN4mQpP25A4kk0AtpvabK0MLrDqMsh3bh3VzjThALq+Q== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:50 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::47) by DM6NAM10FT042.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:7e86::153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3021.23 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:50 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d]) by CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d%12]) with mapi id 15.20.3021.029; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:50 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Aryeh Friedman CC: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqi7rt4AgAApwoCAAAarxoAAICwAgAARDAuAAAQLgIAAAPf7gAABggCAAACoRYAAAiKAgAAHbzqAAAFaAIAAAHaH Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:F768B087B643F05D6097EE47940F0523C8AA67A1DAAA619DB2738E6937DD9B05; 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ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:41:53 -0000 Ok I'll check it out and get back to you. Btw there's a broken port called = freetnet. Can it be rescued? How do you go about fixing a broken port? ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:38:56 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code = and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and = what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where th= e flamewar on licensing often starts): https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.IS= O8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll de= finitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the = FreeBSD community Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing mod= el (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) Step 3: Get the source code for the program Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to c= ompile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark it= ready for a committer to review and commit it Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made in= to ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programmin= g required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong)= and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder = things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this come= s from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the por= ting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master= repo. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:43:51 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E79337E92 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:43:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd43.google.com (mail-io1-xd43.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGqp5V9wz3SBX for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:43:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd43.google.com with SMTP id c8so6365588iob.6 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:43:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=hDhGNzBPgQ1IRuwYyG16qqrSZ0AjXXw1gnrrZWmwong=; b=tJpSRQiim0pTEczPTvr0RkDNmy9VW6uk/z7hBLjkrXFR1UqJ1Q2MQaufxzFn/Zqhdp +HCtvTMR3Kht/uQ+X3Bvvn2wBUfdAOpMFAIkqVqgmed8ly/x3dbHxQMvr/lJv8ZuQHRX a1wQtTlTLzWnlv8aube5/u+Zgx/ghlF9naU+zpBE3DpznFr9UojYFKvKDCHXgfaoK6zP H0UvKBt9qoxjaswVH5V+cbQnpRKRGVkYvFhSczZAjEjOKweGnam301LYewu8GvUDTatc j1l/qLVj3gNorcHWXqBP8pkqJJgDDslJOShKeEICeGgc4yiB/GDF5uHWGktVw6SfOuTL u52g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=hDhGNzBPgQ1IRuwYyG16qqrSZ0AjXXw1gnrrZWmwong=; b=F7JSYchVMKc6GEUgxtGUdhTlF8KaKk7CXfE9+NvNdJmyPy+uzuD1zN/ybAUzN+NrPD zw68NebE6VGnb5TxUZlYp85YZZ3hjb8Fyg7C9BvqjUO/vlFMuV62fFHW/QR+8zcSlR41 tuyKdJhFqwudnNfKig+ztrZfQXGTHt36PJl77BFj+iLvZKshwEqOS+no5UBI/petLlya 9P6b9xd+7NYTChmjDwNtNrOZVnqZ00W34eRpm63PykwzrhLxr2S5czGIWtPeXcj4r3ZK pWyQXZ1R+CPEuAXtw0YgxokuEQ7g7xwQyKjXnjbz8opQ+2i2XolH+SsAVniJRwbZxlMS hnZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533DkFcDFqOZCO2NPg6xHgQh5zIsXZFfg/4Q96uGAexomRjULJvD jWgZ+vu6iWdgUWfzhuey11lqbweKgaFePq286YY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwZ3vv6RDWez+4025nDe6EyaYQlgU36PmORlwKqqzdPTajRJND2LJA8xZh68oEu+2YD6YkkpC5edpr/iIdgDBM= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:5915:: with SMTP id n21mr19960182iob.103.1590597829732; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:43:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:43:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XGqp5V9wz3SBX X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=tJpSRQii; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.342]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d43:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:43:51 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:41 PM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > Ok I'll check it out and get back to you. Btw there's a broken port called > freetnet. Can it be rescued? How do you go about fixing a broken port? > Sort answer: By any means necessary Long answer: Figure out where to get the latest version of the source code and do what is needed to bring it up to date and submit the port while saying your taking maintainership (make sure it really is dead first by attempting to contact the old maintainer first) > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:38:56 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code > and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? > > > You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and > what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where > the flamewar on licensing often starts): > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll > definitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? > > > Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the > FreeBSD community > Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing > model (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) > Step 3: Get the source code for the program > Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to > compile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on > Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 > Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark > it ready for a committer to review and commit it > Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests > Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a > committer? Does that require skills? > > > 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made > into ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no > programming required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my > job wrong) and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move > to harder things that require programming > > 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not > things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this > comes from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the > porting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the > master repo. > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least > basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code > that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then > include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:44:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5132A337F4F for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:44:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12olkn2031.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.22.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGs52LrYz3SL7 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:44:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=gO4j1u27ugnfR+ekRSvo95XGUE4Zd3EOSl1nb6QZVaEVv4Nxs1Swy6r6WhuufI5kCTOdbvxqb03KmRp8eLbeSaMLwr/ouVGdhA9wmiES9Wy3w2AU2ZGgURRJ4f3SC0RZ34NLl+9Rc/TqA4SAMvVvxBKowIHPED5MrlSJrKpo4A5q53LDKDQxIfA8k1xMAOX/NdTpnSyorlJ3JKMyx2xCQq5EvnDs4DHj0u1lHO7+QuCuYO9lEgkaQOMpPMfI5+z7CyTZdW+szL7Bl+nUHMwdEuzRIAIdC7SjfbJftnpDGU45Fa7H5daYHyswgTOp47UyGq5RnmIy0gieiYpLxusaoA== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:43:38 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:41 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: Ok I'll check it out and get back to you. Btw there's a broken port called = freetnet. Can it be rescued? How do you go about fixing a broken port? Sort answer: By any means necessary Long answer: Figure out where to get the latest version of the source code = and do what is needed to bring it up to date and submit the port while sayi= ng your taking maintainership (make sure it really is dead first by attempt= ing to contact the old maintainer first) ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:38:56 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code = and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and = what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where th= e flamewar on licensing often starts): https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.IS= O8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll de= finitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the = FreeBSD community Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing mod= el (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) Step 3: Get the source code for the program Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to c= ompile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark it= ready for a committer to review and commit it Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made in= to ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programmin= g required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong)= and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder = things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this come= s from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the por= ting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master= repo. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 16:46:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC712C8169 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:46:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd42.google.com (mail-io1-xd42.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XGtg5rsFz3Sj9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 16:46:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd42.google.com with SMTP id y5so3910144iob.12 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:46:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DDdC08EJa72qUgHhpPrBGBXVP9ZCrBNDkAhjGWDlz40=; b=WhFBn7XEi/BOtbyrXc7aO9E7FiJkeaQGzgQXm2N7Bw5zgb8+D185rSNMABF3nQA2qw vC+6PZHsjKuhMrH48SSae2ttfz2YaBUaXWvq6DlpPzRTQUitGcaDw/bE1mDuFxxUI8mP sYiOwof/8fNlXZ7GduGtnNPOcoE8ReCEtNho/RSzPGc8COgIaD/synExmpwM4+T4tI8y wFXBibDl9mKGPdv9NYHId3sWvg0BDMmXWq/h/RDxW94NYGCIDHQlVS7XQEQsM8PS4Iva gKFB6BZDK0O/0WDYwLll7ImWT/hOxt6RhXFdd27FLs4iuQ2ZJaoB7sPjXcCOSwdiCdZO yL+g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DDdC08EJa72qUgHhpPrBGBXVP9ZCrBNDkAhjGWDlz40=; b=N3G8/M5SnUh+Za2swPOPzJ+MpuRykoOWXM1LISmaGYNwJTHn5VOdi0+GgaEvbLVdDy 95ffO+Bn5S3KNGBVfc1Y+QB+MhKyDMe5ubyTgMs6pa8dfMg0gcPDWCtmfZOJCmmDjV8t LdOPL37wkENqNUaEm6MHLO8y1ark8Nt9cpb9yBbtu03w8Q7gX+PusjH9oNpGtc6ZlCKU eq/r4GQ2KTTKekkONZ+Gm7SpwVO1oOhKgWuLEr0pwvZUj+TBpytgxHGVBaF+RdMsTd2D 5wwxbMAfIvKIZfUH0T6KFf2o9qg0R/JC5+B0Gy0f9pYdWU2TdK69mip3I69T+sLMhn7f F80Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5313m5VqOYrfYu3sD/2Z690VE2jEbMF+5OZwszHVSEPeY6gagavG 6IO7CSM48zBe57V131v1ly6roFZumdjqEnyn8574MdgD X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzUNpyCqjiip8Bnxc9mjcfBQe8nCxbLjJnO1k/AWdwSe9pVPYK6unMDhNUH2sh7bKFxP33x7NY1zhH2A8Ppe38= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6602:2815:: with SMTP id d21mr13805795ioe.174.1590597979002; Wed, 27 May 2020 09:46:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 12:46:07 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso , Polytropon , Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XGtg5rsFz3Sj9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=WhFBn7XE; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.34)[-0.343]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.014]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d42:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:46:20 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:44 PM Brandon helsley < brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > Dead as in without a maintainer or as in completely broken? > If the second work with the current maintainer if the first just take maintainership and if both fix it and take maintainership > Sent from Outlook Mobile > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:43:38 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:41 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Ok I'll check it out and get back to you. Btw there's a broken port called > freetnet. Can it be rescued? How do you go about fixing a broken port? > > > Sort answer: By any means necessary > Long answer: Figure out where to get the latest version of the source code > and do what is needed to bring it up to date and submit the port while > saying your taking maintainership (make sure it really is dead first by > attempting to contact the old maintainer first) > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:38:56 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code > and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? > > > You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and > what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where > the flamewar on licensing often starts): > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll > definitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? > > > Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the > FreeBSD community > Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing > model (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) > Step 3: Get the source code for the program > Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to > compile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on > Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 > Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark > it ready for a committer to review and commit it > Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests > Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a > committer? Does that require skills? > > > 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made > into ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no > programming required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my > job wrong) and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move > to harder things that require programming > > 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not > things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this > comes from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the > porting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the > master repo. > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > How much experience is necessarry? > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the > ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and > possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > > A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least > basic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code > that are incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then > include a patch for the work in the port files). > > > > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Aryeh Friedman > *Sent:* Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > *To:* Brandon helsley > *Cc:* Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon < > freebsd@edvax.de>; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> > *Subject:* Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley < > brandon.helsley@hotmail.com> wrote: > > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good > learning experience? > > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good > working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over > maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released > version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up > the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users > [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase > out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with > LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as > making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas > for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly > side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not > via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > > > > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 17:03:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B42402C823F for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam10olkn2032.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.42.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XHGW475mz3V6q for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ES7ei9DFc5NrWOY0d1uenzOoPah+UyjpfAs7aBWvdbfqpOQUmgxhtk6Kj49qNZ7CkzUmCNSOLlTtZVG4MTKk7Mk7ZtHEn+LtHsfDQJ/nncauHGQpnNS0KTORjvC46qMvgKv5wMm+ukjkndjE9ENshAD0WTo7nAz0yn57R35eeebGKgXiwXayRuSHWeT5SqqO1qkhpwi/UMuwg5I3HxEHFC5xOl5g09VY+o2R2s3fQeu7PRM+tx3snNdvRrZJ2CfcH3M6fc1BvdslGZErEuhxOCZQUkdFRg6iy8X5F0Zl7ecIp4lYOhDhlgk9bDXDoa56aG/U+dJyrCL9p4BDv8YHKQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.42.32:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.42.32:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[yahoo.com,edvax.de,freebsd.org]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:32 -0000 Excuse me could you clarify I didn't catch that Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:46:07 AM To: Brandon helsley Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:44 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: Dead as in without a maintainer or as in completely broken? If the second work with the current maintainer if the first just take maint= ainership and if both fix it and take maintainership Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:43:38 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:41 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: Ok I'll check it out and get back to you. Btw there's a broken port called = freetnet. Can it be rescued? How do you go about fixing a broken port? Sort answer: By any means necessary Long answer: Figure out where to get the latest version of the source code = and do what is needed to bring it up to date and submit the port while sayi= ng your taking maintainership (make sure it really is dead first by attempt= ing to contact the old maintainer first) ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:38:56 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:35 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the source code = and refer to their licensing on their website and contact them for clarity? You should also read the semi official statement on what is compatible and = what isn't legally (I am not going to summerize it because that is where th= e flamewar on licensing often starts): https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.IS= O8859-1/articles/bsdl-gpl/index.html Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 10:07:29 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:02 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: I'll take that to mean that I can sign up with as little as I know. I'll de= finitely be very quick to learn. How can I get started? Step 1: Find some program that you think should be widely available to the = FreeBSD community Step 2: Make sure it legally compatible with FreeBSD and it's licensing mod= el (I am not going to get into how to this to avoid starting a flame war) Step 3: Get the source code for the program Step 4: Using hand compiling (or how ever it wants to be built) get it to c= ompile/install cleanly including noting all the other ports it depends on Step 5: Use the port system to automate step 4 Step 6: Submit it to the bug tracking system as a new port so as to mark it= ready for a committer to review and commit it Step 7: Make any changes the committer suggests Step 8: Committer commits it and it is now officially a port ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:57:30 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:53 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: Good to know, then I'll take it up to learn the basics. And to be a committ= er? Does that require skills? 1. The reason I suggested some of the things I have written but not made in= to ports yet is I wrote them on FreeBSD so there is little or no programmin= g required to make them work as port (if there is then I did my job wrong)= and thus you can learn porting from the ground up and then move to harder = things that require programming 2. Being a committer is mostly being trusted by other committers to not things up when you put it in the master repository. Mostly this come= s from maintaining a lot of ports and showing superior knowledge of the por= ting system along with being suitably risk adverse when updating the master= repo. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 9:48:39 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 11:36 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: How much experience is necessarry? I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn= as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" a= t all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly a= nd hopefully learning how to port software? A lot of times (but by far from all the time) porting requires at least bas= ic programming skills since you often need to find parts of the code that a= re incompatible with FreeBSD and make them compatible (you then include a p= atch for the work in the port files). Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso >; Polytropon >= ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good le= arning experience? Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good wo= rking order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintaine= rship of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the o= riginal author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to mak= e new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my = self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preferen= ce for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as = making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas = for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly = side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not= via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 17:52:58 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6ABFD2C9DDC for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:52:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Received: from mail.irk.ru (relay2.dsi.ru [195.206.40.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XJMX0qnbz3YbF for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:52:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Received: from [194.176.114.54] (helo=[192.168.1.130]) by mail.irk.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1je0ER-0003R4-0p for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:52:47 +0800 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org From: Thor Ablestar Subject: 7ZIP Windows question Message-ID: <56263fa6-a3fc-ffbb-9f78-732e69b94b8d@irk.ru> Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:52:37 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XJMX0qnbz3YbF X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=irk.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of thor@irk.ru designates 195.206.40.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=thor@irk.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.49 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.920]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.97)[-0.968]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.20)[0.200]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[irk.ru,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8345, ipnet:195.206.32.0/19, country:RU]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 17:52:58 -0000 Hello All! Problem is the following: Somebody sent to me the archive with files with Russian names in 7Z format. I used the p7zip from both ports and packages to extract it. Result was the same: Some files were not extracted with diagnostic "Too long filename". It was necessary to transfer the archive to Windows machine, extract the files there, then rename them, pack again and transfer back. Is there any method to do it within FreeBSD or at least without abominable Windows? 12.1-RELEASE AMD064 Thor From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 17:58:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7CA42CA205 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:58:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XJV66z6Xz3Z9P for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:58:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: 7w758q8VM1k2FQAqSFAK_FZgSbOjaY7mqeNEOQpcsV9.7Ow3jN8jTD6bbt5x7cD qqYAJtz8wOLOMnKbdkajQVgnrDm1g.9Uk_LGyAxkhtahKerFU._GRvp1nZPSsAf4LmLFio5zGj4R Pb_vj5dsiCWpKQ8RxVD.Z0jRbFr65nb2wM2do9qLX5dROfuXQOlkbTwQbLzj1A9xAJh8J.HJfawG KINAwpO_bFWlDSczUEfqk3C6s0qr.13bsk0DHFnI4xXGhSvqSxojsCDmKUoxvyBgqHoVCjyXBdlo uvKcbfN87Zazd2RCIinQDAXIwN.SE0eoEhS19DkDPZwfufv.Js4bYJrx_k49UT2Hucj23YPy8RSG Xy8RTPfxqKvCTm_IB_NglD4RrjVX8NjivhvEXTRMiu1n3dSOHdKyEMchb.Y2ZqA5f0ICADCr2LV8 EQOlPWWeDiUpf7XHU.MuYLKK_G5abPLdHv0V.Kt65gS54o5beBtTA.xMtqWdlPEqq6wz8oupUY4L YP_njMBDkz7oltdNdgbdzKrvJLjqkem0kBLgT3BxPpI2Agcm1b5XA2GWwxq3W8e4_oAmml7aNGAa Woq_VlGhchi5Wr67x_hFQ6GB.A7t1_DWkaPiAygNMYX1vpcqci1YkyxNpE49Ifj.imQZ4oIz3hYC VKCSDCEf9IjdpTOS5cQaHxB6VVfk8tYHZdS3CN61vFfeDLch25rC4ODwBrej23WQ.A8Nf2lYk3a6 DuiwjGahHfeeufNZ5hOd4vKl2OVwVBsIBiu2yyZVmqgIjFesQDlW2LxUovEo3D871VA4GzE7PxXp H6scC0P8ucg2ZOlfs0nwcP8f67s6c0Vb4aRwsSRxp1uuy2YUG2Zb2EWrnfKDMRs2GLdxKXv11yiA 38coLVVsReTPbhRuBZLsxsnbaJmD3H_ii5e13eQGKqqxkhxxOJbPOBzmD.QMVUXR.TLdwVnMCWuf MW2gFBT2Eo_OPkzWMVp7TE3vjifELWySIIwzBsfjxWakrROY8umSHyN5CSvmbUbsqwlrMARNl7mU 7nPKNuIHPzGT3VMaiKTmcLLyroKlW8nNWeepEUJElGm6xmL541_ZunE7qI_y.QX2gqe3z8b5exn6 j_o6fSsigBdunTkrpi3n9MbBJa_fI293bCLT1B2fkD1UHTQC9HcfGb09yjn2GIACmaaJzcREE5xZ TsNh476L6FtrjVe_qeaTgaMaLOeBP0AfwtlQptwg7bbEJGSEZHbrx.SwRmZP8i06oYkTpEF8Nfxw h3UrmI9NQZZA5R9WnaerGPKOFRXgtoV0M374Q4OKii_zqDQbsrSvHglbrsyOacQdlgM7CWFmSYZw YKSw3dt3zWhROXfhBxZM0KpVaaASWSZYeT.olE2ViMzI6p4ZFKmGhLbZS.A1qK4JJZks8MIyXl88 WJD0- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:58:36 +0000 Received: by smtp411.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID e63257fd8152829bd2250217d3c8425c; Wed, 27 May 2020 17:58:35 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 19:58:36 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200527195836.602a5e85@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XJV66z6Xz3Z9P X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.63 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[87.248.110.84:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.08)[-0.076]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.05)[-1.047]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[87.248.110.84:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 17:58:40 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 15:36:40 +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: >I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to >learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching >the ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like >networking and possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? Consider to toy with something related to the domains of your interest. You might use a desktop environment that provides a GUI to set up a connection with the Internet. You could replace the GUI by writing your own shell script. This might not make much sense when using DHCP, so you might need to find something else. Shell scripts for the default login shell are a good starting point. If a script works with this shell, you might want to make it portable to run on different shells. When I started with computers I owned a C64 a MIDI interface and a synthesizer. Somebody has written a short Assembler program to receive the synthesizer's sound bank, to save it on a floppy disk and to load and transmit a sound bank. One of the first things I did, was disassembling the program and commenting the assembler commands by using good documentations [1]. Then I expanded the Assembler code to keep two sound banks in RAM and to share sounds between the two sound banks, to get a new sound bank. I also added a feature to rename the sounds. That's not much, but I learned a lot about binary numbers, hex numbers, MIDI software standards, MIDI hardware, computer hardware, interrupts, how to design a program and fortunately programming on the lowest level that time even without a macro assembler. [1] Probably the only important documentation regarding Assembler was "Commodore 64 & 128 Maschinensprache f=C3=BCr Einsteiger" Data Becker From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 18:08:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE9A62CA17C for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:08:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from out5-smtp.messagingengine.com (out5-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.29]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XJjJ2ycjz3ZWy for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:08:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ypankov@fastmail.com) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BFD45C01DB; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:01:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); 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Wed, 27 May 2020 14:01:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: 7ZIP Windows question To: Thor Ablestar , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <56263fa6-a3fc-ffbb-9f78-732e69b94b8d@irk.ru> From: Yuri Pankov Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 21:01:18 +0300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <56263fa6-a3fc-ffbb-9f78-732e69b94b8d@irk.ru> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XJjJ2ycjz3ZWy X-Spamd-Bar: +++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=fastmail.com header.s=fm3 header.b=BBdk3ZIe; dkim=pass header.d=messagingengine.com header.s=fm2 header.b=a4BBOvN/; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=fastmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of ypankov@fastmail.com designates 66.111.4.29 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=ypankov@fastmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [5.02 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:66.111.4.29:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[66.111.4.29:from]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[fastmail.com:+,messagingengine.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[fastmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11403, ipnet:66.111.4.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[66.111.4.29:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_XBL(5.00)[91.240.124.138:received]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[fastmail.com:s=fm3,messagingengine.com:s=fm2]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.50)[-0.503]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.43)[0.427]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.19)[0.194]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:08:21 -0000 Thor Ablestar wrote: > Hello All! > > Problem is the following: Somebody sent to me the archive with files > with Russian names in 7Z format. I used the p7zip from both ports and > packages to extract it. Result was the same: Some files were not > extracted with diagnostic "Too long filename". > > It was necessary to transfer the archive to Windows machine, extract the > files there, then rename them, pack again and transfer back. > > Is there any method to do it within FreeBSD or at least without > abominable Windows? > > 12.1-RELEASE AMD064 What encoding is used for those "russian" names? What is your system locale? Also, did you try the following switch for 7? -scs{UTF-8|UTF-16LE|UTF-16BE|WIN|DOS|{id}} : set charset for list files From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 18:36:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AC52CB661 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:36:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic313-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic313-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.188]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XKKq1X8zz3dYP for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:36:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: .yOUJskVM1mJLsodpQ3Ab_6tmsPgjvkUjVN_9z4Xw6D2G5GzAVxOYjIFqT8_2jK Ih6U.hR_ipIT80ueShsBSFxYAAjyhrCc7pBaklhg1Rdaqhke6owXukRUdxlnCAbzg0XFb_n0Di0X nbKc1OiIuj2j6zq2t9fp8e9ilI98NmycQcezGvZQ_3LipsbYG0Zkumn_QbjkYD0jZveXYuo7T8zJ TTRKXIlZANKbIiPExmmHaFycB4sPUO_1Evj__J0KOD3dsajzjiKzQA6fzet7Yug4zMjWS2MR7G1J IH9QmTbIy9D2XpE0qhQMVhP2kdR2QI_rvbV8tMzcqy_6LyZEYxiFBixhn5wQAs49Xy2l69vnlIww PV4a5v70rp3juhpjyn6sTKnsN9yajWq6fbDoxPamnRmw.Pmdy7dnM62ptGlr.8xf0s6EXJtirPsA 7cVdDXxfC_XX.KCDhB8PiWsL30hCn6iHwcwWraBnSB255Afh2O56.8sKfPJkmoArjZ4oGz7w8em8 82hFv07Gq2IRRSt_em70dNWeaLfK7wQuftVnx8.KQ1ERlhhG4jqgpsWNcGh.yM9_pGIAs.1mzc9z .PoUm_WQv95wd2xRSBk8zeDqwtEYtkra6B.B5e9Dx484QfvwMkL54jJyfKArfWAUyAzgqWnn30bl _sWXYibxXI8grg6nxCiCRU43V1TXW0G_fudVcNTbJht5Y0Y.O9R70DjdhzyJ_o6QBGIeERDaVfc0 trdrCnpspojKK0DwJp1m3HzSwyt5SUMfNHt7_auOjrIYAAmr.Kz93rDNlBHRnzFgZTUei4beE1TL yKws4ydGspcBjD2BO67ovbfYwyPTojbxGDqSw8JSH.jD7ZUBIMVzRjA2blV6iapQUJr_oISLD0.f lpTp9kXAH5..j6.zJr7mQqFdYJ9sYP4psuuNoNi4V9UV__C60My1Ad3NADKr99iIEMEJ47.AxiuQ I6UEL2uKJwEeOl5844KovTskr4_XVNz3W.iGyRalOmh0hXYelvI4MRWjE21a4wygynLGuuhs1FCk qRG6K78eFYS3QKH2txHy4HnJG99vNRD1Zb1GwPZwxU4l5nXvM02tLMJxcljv8.vBSWZWVx7DO2lK _Yxx96Tl07kYVU.CObLHU6HeFvVA8mASiRUtWA5a6Q.dyOtB8WvxQsTHbbWX5NKVxF8i_9wE8VhG Vn4.eTK2PkOmlcTGDYPRWDUmS5MyGKOgfg9IMps9GMRTNJBU9O4hQy03K_7r1A6OP3x.i8M8BxYY yA_gwfOlsrdEkOJhsMVa9DD.82Z4ECpNVkYJe2fpPXneLLmFS8XDsf6PDWllTh3HHOTaJS45J5Y7 YUgS9JSlXOyJ0eofpiTLChX_DKXPHK7ISiOBcxt2iKpJTFbq_yYVH104jLm8HHErUVMVS59CRb15 bymU218pV1jGfqvBe.g-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic313.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:36:28 +0000 Received: by smtp414.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 1c15ffd292f9cfc12c7479f4420c86c8; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:36:26 +0000 (UTC) Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:36:27 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XKKq1X8zz3dYP X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.58 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.179.188:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.07)[-0.073]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.007]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.179.188:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:36:32 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:29 +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: >Excuse me could you clarify I didn't catch that IMHO it's quite irrelevant given that you described yourself as "I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn as much as possible". If you official maintain software for an operating system you not only need to be _familiar_ with the operating system, you also need to chase after the source code, if upstream discontinues a project and somebody forks it or upstream migrated from one software hosting service to another and there are few additional things to do, that are very time consuming and that have nothing to do with becoming familiar with the operating system. You are interested in networking? Search https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ for the term "network". Learn how to read man(ual) pages, such as https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?ls or https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=tcsh&sektion=1&manpath=freebsd-release-ports man pages are the build in manual, but for a newbie the man pages are not easy to understand. Apropos shells: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/linux-users/shells.html https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/shells.html Learning by doing. Start a simple project. Kind of an advanced "Hello, World!" script that has something to do with your interests, maybe networking, instead of a program, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Hello,_World!%22_program . From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 18:47:16 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63BCF2CBB2B for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:47:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Received: from mail.irk.ru (relay2.dsi.ru [195.206.40.175]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XKZB75Q0z3fS3 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:47:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from thor@irk.ru) Received: from [194.176.114.54] (helo=[192.168.1.130]) by mail.irk.ru with esmtpa (Exim 4.86 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1je156-0007lg-Ce for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 02:47:12 +0800 Subject: Re: 7ZIP Windows question To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <56263fa6-a3fc-ffbb-9f78-732e69b94b8d@irk.ru> From: Thor Ablestar Message-ID: <0f6b1d6d-02ea-5c6e-1c11-8fb8211897c1@irk.ru> Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 02:47:11 +0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XKZB75Q0z3fS3 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=irk.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of thor@irk.ru designates 195.206.40.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=thor@irk.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.11 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.79)[-0.786]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.962]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.44)[0.440]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[irk.ru,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8345, ipnet:195.206.32.0/19, country:RU]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:47:16 -0000 1. ru_RU.UTF-8. p7zip just does NOT work without it. 2. -scs key does NOT affect files. It only changes the listing. All files except the ones with too long names are extracted _normally_. So it's not the problem with locales. On 2020-05-28 02:01, Yuri Pankov wrote: > Thor Ablestar wrote: >> Hello All! >> >> Problem is the following: Somebody sent to me the archive with files >> with Russian names in 7Z format. I used the p7zip from both ports and >> packages to extract it. Result was the same: Some files were not >> extracted with diagnostic "Too long filename". >> >> It was necessary to transfer the archive to Windows machine, extract >> the files there, then rename them, pack again and transfer back. >> >> Is there any method to do it within FreeBSD or at least without >> abominable Windows? >> >> 12.1-RELEASE AMD064 > > What encoding is used for those "russian" names? What is your system > locale? > > Also, did you try the following switch for 7? > > -scs{UTF-8|UTF-16LE|UTF-16BE|WIN|DOS|{id}} : set charset for list files > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 18:48:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAF4C2CBB9E for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XKbn3yyPz3fT7 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:48:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.10.43]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue009 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1Mzhar-1iro5v2TUf-00vfr5; Wed, 27 May 2020 20:48:30 +0200 Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:48:30 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200527204830.893e6762.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:h3oCPTM26tqO0QhnkeW2jV+Jr+0SCHGVhwHeZmnWz5ZzjJbHmr/ CsQyDtzBISPiymKGc0jP/kjSaxPij5xCd9hcDZ8qKH8YGWwROHsGPuqyiER+3mlnRo2OTwM NbfENxRK1kBot3G4uaUipHvLtcHINup2Sfvg6pXpsTytI/OgkAoE+JiDBC2wV234AhAMUxU yvEYATDiqeTSVlnOTBwpQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:3Jh+hmq+SNo=:eOeHn3KalLStu0wOn1zH5u K0ggyqw4RJ1L6+/SbAS6UyZbETbRhZuL51j0XnsTWRUy9RdzNwXkZnrva3gRmlesXfv6XlSbQ 2chl7I44D5Ux14cQgBlJMPkSxOEVOsJMYUjUVL7YJi1oux0S9qB5ac34aLs46TqR0D1n4sdM5 dpjjuBbpawEXLJiDpvKsBuijEWiHLCkpPTxoTvrbRNwyug/MdyHHqS0yEGnUDIjjOjDnczc71 T8yPmDrP7Rr8ZwcqkSE6zrSa4ENHuaTyEIv+epSaSf4oYODIL4mVVEdmcTcjGANbgVBQFK3i9 AYw6/POkiujT6TOvUMX6QLxc21qvweBtQS8Z9yRGqevHjrpruSKAoRFv0Lhmh1mdhi8Faj4cy Ym6RyhEFhYnMgZ9gxVI+6OCjS7mP8+rCkesqOU780vsO0Z2bZ8UJboq4fEjc5RtJpsThrVg2H S9FPMto609U7+m5a8QUs6G5AmokDObcZsULXXe9Ycz3oqI72M2rUaDs3t1TF20OC/NBcKdFxz 2VuH+6Y8TIvD4Yy2DBXjmZxjTkalnUTjqd/H15YfnTPLThva+p7d5I6EUSw0HEZDdPDOVWF4i omfK5ZMCaA2NM6gJCiXiQ4xqSMlFYBSEgDRorqRSYxPrZD8sSmUYLh3hnDN1klj/WZz7OKJpY 6p444e/1DXj6P7GaURfP5xInrlS038H9xwCwiQGTEyoKuoH5mpGHedHBRbWGlP8+jNAP+R4m1 oTZTFx8fLjJRylZiZdrI7DK1/pUsSwcmN7mHfTOwenvlaWm7KoKqKz+bvK9ylBsgLhlPWzvwS u6rmg8bNwEgW7Z33ihtTTbxtaGCqMS0y2v0fEKGb5XISmvd8MpeSjZbXrGKKbNWMNFn0pr1 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XKbn3yyPz3fT7 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 18:48:39 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 20:36:27 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:29 +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: > >Excuse me could you clarify I didn't catch that > > IMHO it's quite irrelevant given that you described yourself as "I > don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible". > > If you official maintain software for an operating system you not only > need to be _familiar_ with the operating system, you also need to chase > after the source code, if upstream discontinues a project and somebody > forks it or upstream migrated from one software hosting service to > another and there are few additional things to do, that are very time > consuming and that have nothing to do with becoming familiar with the > operating system. > > You are interested in networking? Search > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ for the > term "network". > > Learn how to read man(ual) pages, such as > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?ls > > or > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=tcsh&sektion=1&manpath=freebsd-release-ports > > man pages are the build in manual, but for a newbie the man pages are > not easy to understand. > > Apropos shells: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/linux-users/shells.html > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/shells.html > > Learning by doing. Start a simple project. Kind of an advanced "Hello, > World!" script that has something to do with your interests, maybe > networking, instead of a program, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Hello,_World!%22_program . Additionally, there is a way to contribute to FreeBSD outside of the programming world (more or less): Write documentation. You can file bug reports for inappropriate or missing manual entries or handbook chapters, you can help bringing up certain parts of the handbook or the FAQ up to date, or you can even help proofreading existing documentation. But I said "more or less": In order to do so, it doesn't hurt to under- stand what you're dealing with or writing about, so everything that Ralf wrote still applies: Learn FreeBSD basics, get familiar with fundamental concepts of how a computer works, how networking works, how shell scripting works, or whatever meets your interests for contribution. Learn by doing, it actually works. Don't be fooled by "it magically works just by itself" - there is a learning curve, but you will always (!) benefit from your knowledge and experience. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 19:03:40 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD4E2CBFBB for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 19:03:40 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XKx71ddkz3gmF for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 19:03:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [IPv6:2607:fb90:642a:e789:fc70:68ea:c0b1:6ce2] (unknown [172.58.191.94]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 938024E651 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 14:03:32 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:03:26 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XKx71ddkz3gmF X-Spamd-Bar: +++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [3.21 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.191.94:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(1.14)[1.137]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.978]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[0.999]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 19:03:40 -0000 On 5/27/20 1:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:29 +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: >> Excuse me could you clarify I didn't catch that > > IMHO it's quite irrelevant given that you described yourself as "I > don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > learn as much as possible". > > If you official maintain software for an operating system you not only > need to be _familiar_ with the operating system, you also need to chase > after the source code, if upstream discontinues a project and somebody > forks it or upstream migrated from one software hosting service to > another and there are few additional things to do, that are very time > consuming and that have nothing to do with becoming familiar with the > operating system. +1 Another way to look at it: you have no expertise, then if you follow someone's advise on the list and attempt to become port maintainer, then I've got question for you: Will you let anything on _your_ computer that came from someone with no expertise? Why offering the same to others? So: Install the system. Solve all trouble on that way by searching for solutions, not by asking ready recipes on mail lists. Become knowledgeable USER of that system. Learn programming. Create small programs of your own for your own needs. This was you indeed will acquire invaluable knowledge. By doing. This though sounds terse will bring you to the goal you stated much faster, believe me. Good luck. Valeri > > You are interested in networking? Search > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ for the > term "network". > > Learn how to read man(ual) pages, such as > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?ls > > or > > https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=tcsh&sektion=1&manpath=freebsd-release-ports > > man pages are the build in manual, but for a newbie the man pages are > not easy to understand. > > Apropos shells: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/linux-users/shells.html > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/shells.html > > Learning by doing. Start a simple project. Kind of an advanced "Hello, > World!" script that has something to do with your interests, maybe > networking, instead of a program, > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Hello,_World!%22_program . > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 20:49:10 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD5C82CEA19 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 20:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12a.google.com (mail-il1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XNGs5nbzz46lk for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 20:49:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id r2so14304407ila.4 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:49:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JK3RxpapNdaM5oJl+4WvGfpXbbYYaxPnjrl9mTCoKvw=; b=lT2VRf05OcHk0UBe8mnM0PEI7fPgMpbm6M7LMxHBiErPiL/nSSYfOBrq+9aXJmfal2 8BESonP00soz3Gs5MT43HHRUBGCX5W1LecnfqHsDLwrWlVG1mmPb8fUCCIO/gmeXAQd8 EiTlh8fmnJdYZh8MpD/GWaVlLuA34KuNB8zud8VDeIkRvtsItywz879jTnppOgKBgrup ghL7Mh9gauO81aSSSckBjCgsLJzuViD/hW6DQJ/pXsVRNxVpDUpN0fSXoaorjvy1UTsA AsORN2VrWcdaTAFkIkBit+mMu/+jlLhvyKMH9/EmNLPrNeSYLcV9QFkX3ABeXgyMNDHo 9Qrg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JK3RxpapNdaM5oJl+4WvGfpXbbYYaxPnjrl9mTCoKvw=; b=WP2lRQQ3gZt0BJvJ+IpHFkLEexgEPYGoKkJDp3EZ+1y6CQhTpisKFOVDzSW6nAONAQ 5mg9/wpzknI+hJcI72AT/xt7n7fKT6On3wP95avWbXN98a84mACi48stu70CQ5IvCZTO Gx7Cp1lQ4cGyZ4bduvE+QsNKo258+p32zkvQHDlS8y/OVbTNOJxpS0DPvRoeklby82Lp deUFuykF8zRmyF5HXJuQrKFIEJzAlwF0hF4eL1YatiqY2LfAc25HPHCbdr0v3H61asHq GJSz2olD5TZLqJHhvaze+9TW6woTvy3o4siASJzS2loyDA+A2AXrConckTZP/5ZvzMEj 8Sqw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531/uHzcOZnxNV6Mho6M6qCsIOQau4QNctmO5NmqsL3BzYemYDjW Cuqx6C0sEeoSzk9cPo0vGPLFt2C8U3AXsOZynFPqcoq4rfs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzUc4Alsvidasgc7Lm7iWooIONG5psDn00Nkq9i9V0YxoFW7ePHsUtxF+ciwUGu9m9QUWW/g+1SE3KMrKesgk8= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c94f:: with SMTP id i15mr105367ilq.185.1590612548225; Wed, 27 May 2020 13:49:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 16:48:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XNGs5nbzz46lk X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=lT2VRf05; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.30 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.99)[-0.985]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.984]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.327]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:49:10 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 3:03 PM Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > > On 5/27/20 1:36 PM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 17:03:29 +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: > >> Excuse me could you clarify I didn't catch that > > > > IMHO it's quite irrelevant given that you described yourself as "I > > don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to > > learn as much as possible". > > > > If you official maintain software for an operating system you not only > > need to be _familiar_ with the operating system, you also need to chase > > after the source code, if upstream discontinues a project and somebody > > forks it or upstream migrated from one software hosting service to > > another and there are few additional things to do, that are very time > > consuming and that have nothing to do with becoming familiar with the > > operating system. > I love how people who have no background in a topic (being a port maintainer) spew off about topics that may or may not be an issue in a particular case. The facts are the OP asked what a port maintainer was and if it would be a good learning experience and the answer from two people was it would be a rough learning experience but a good one. Just so both people I am replying to know that it is not a case of the pot calling the kettle black: ports@neomarx% grep -Ri aryeh /usr/ports /usr/ports/.svn/pristine/fb/fbbabd498800d80e7c624a9e8f6cfbf5b5c52865.svn-base:MAINTAINER= aryeh.friedman@gmail.com /usr/ports/devel/aegis/Makefile:MAINTAINER= aryeh.friedman@gmail.com But: ports@neomarx% grep -Ri galtsev /usr/ports [No output] ports@neomarx% grep -Ri mordorf /usr/ports [Not output] > +1 > > Another way to look at it: you have no expertise, then if you follow > someone's advise on the list and attempt to become port maintainer, then > I've got question for you: > > Will you let anything on _your_ computer that came from someone with no > expertise? Why offering the same to others? So: > Who said you needed to use the resulting port??!!?!? What is the worst that can happen he fails? If he does fail then I am sure he would learn a lot more if then he tried one of the no long practical use that either person quoted in this message suggested. It is likely h would learn more from failing then succeeding in making the port even. Everyone has to start somewhere and if they want to start by jumping into the deep end then we shouldn't try to stop because they will do it anyways the best we can do is tell them the risks ("do or die" is a great teacher though). > Install the system. Solve all trouble on that way by searching for > solutions, not by asking ready recipes on mail lists. Become > knowledgeable USER of that system. Learn programming. Create small > programs of your own for your own needs. This was you indeed will > acquire invaluable knowledge. By doing. > If you had been reading other mailing lists you would of seen the OP has been doing this already (see -virtualization@ for example) and is coming along nicely and was looking for an other learning task thus his question on port maintainership > This though sounds terse will bring you to the goal you stated much > faster, believe me. > > Will it? Almost all the best IT/programmers I know started with just as difficult of a challenge so if the OP wants to do something hard from the get go let them. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 23:12:23 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2373F2F2C88 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XRS66kvSz4L49 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id E70752F2851; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:22 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6CCB2F2B90 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XRS60tCDz4LMs for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1590621140; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=rPXGPxI/jwUG+yumyYerb5BM0SM=; b=dbHCfJOGBa1kA+Hv3WMg98b4NDknae7CYkzxDMYEAYbVphHNa15E27Ej57o0LMjk xzYbX5+/5ycoisllVrVbZ7E0ChwEQQBN4nRULYbU9SyPgYeHCVhbDDIzNk5o4Zw2 8F6U56qXE8zuwEUWvBEvMFbJVdXOjAPNpf4fFuKR4tEt6xfraf4Jpd0GjNRkzpKG FgVPUrty8gcUUE0/zBsP+QF9OtGDH6ZrIB5ohGrZlhdKU6DMKHPJPSlWpcLmfZXL EzndwCtFO2gcWm+iSunQDv0cmunaXUKwEnrAJNZkmiv1/fBQx1+N6/+mInTy8x7s Pp8HgDMfVGHJHrwEvXDFZQ==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=J+PUEzvS c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=lKIKd7NtAAAA:8 a=QMog93eV7XkXTwMHTOQA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=Q4nn7pJknIVYsolpXXmV:22 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:27184] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id 91/FD-42436-3D3FECE5; Wed, 27 May 2020 19:12:20 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24270.62418.992039.257025@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 19:12:18 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: FIDO authentication X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XRS60tCDz4LMs X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=dbHCfJOG; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.61 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.955]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.56)[-0.557]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[69.168.97.78:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[69.168.97.78:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 23:12:23 -0000 Hello: Various sites are reporting the FIDO Alliance ("https://www.fidoalliance.org") has announced a major common authentication initiative support by (/inter alia/) Google, Microsoft, and Apple. I'm assuming this requires some level of OS support; is anyone in the FreeBSD community aware of/interested in this? Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed May 27 23:47:17 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 923462F3623 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XSDP2lGvz4NBd for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 5DFC22F34E7; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:47:17 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5DC372F34E6 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 23:47:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XSDN3wSYz4NWT for ; 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Wed, 27 May 2020 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <24270.62418.992039.257025@jerusalem.litteratus.org> In-Reply-To: <24270.62418.992039.257025@jerusalem.litteratus.org> From: Tomasz CEDRO Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:46:46 +0200 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FIDO authentication To: Robert Huff Cc: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XSDN3wSYz4NWT X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=cedro.info header.s=google header.b=BVmQzZ9v; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of tomek@cedro.info has no SPF policy when checking 2a00:1450:4864:20::32c) smtp.mailfrom=tomek@cedro.info X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.65 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.970]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[cedro.info:s=google]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.976]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[cedro.info]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[cedro.info:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::32c:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.41)[-0.406]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 23:47:17 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:12 AM Robert Huff wrote: > Hello: > Various sites are reporting the FIDO Alliance > ("https://www.fidoalliance.org") has announced a major common > authentication initiative support by (/inter alia/) Google, Microsoft, > and Apple. > I'm assuming this requires some level of OS support; is anyone in > the FreeBSD community aware of/interested in this? Hello Robert :-) I am using YubiKey 4NFC and 5NFC as GPG/SSH store for years. Did not use FIDO though.. and the Web Browser Key does not work with it on FreeBSD (may just need some tuning). Vendor supports Open-Source quite nice. There are several utilities in FreeBSD Ports already to manage yubico devices. There also were some PAM modules to work with them. One simple waterproof token contains many different applications and functions and it is very rugged you may find it useful as I did :-) -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 00:22:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AE2D2F3AC7 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic301-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic301-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XT194g1fz4QjQ for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: Gfmr7acVM1nwao7yaexhuQOQFKwtGpNSMp9MwBA9fR8wxUgtJca1SqltOQLOCfs vhWrQ0X75q9y9YHAv8KIPz36WaCyciwpA3JfR9qyxNsSjAn7bBYi03lBaxbCSwsZEh5CChBCQESf q_REMxZYmtJmM2u2337jx3tc0PuyIyAdWiWWRisGmxohorjKqY0AhNC9YbAI3yKfOiDMzVpDbMnQ FqXskf8H06JyWQJ6JwIrfNn4OcjE9dJcaHlN.jEXZsuBK5_l1MtMKNm78QPR8WA3sJfjURwzOXAA p6KQA_v1hgSf_5Jw.NRGZuq3TSNm9LVwwfdZW3bVcr1ThlToK50mjGlCiiJm9GPDBClXsBjqd5qT mw9Q0ByQnxwxQfi9HwsjU6htJ3X.IYtJu9ehwvtKomPRfGwtg_VElvVox.Skd1qmGlulyDDCKzBO tO6Y3lWbUvSOYcZYRbF26H6qh6RrYtYe.16nFyAjxpCY7oQyaBdTozqbeJhrlORNo0ulqAIahWba rz4wjPc.ZZo3J_TjqXj9pu5F9p4kpmi3oD8ZE5rgVZyjgrUxSDoyElHOidjxY8CvdiDc_Hty6Ex7 elg28WaZ3_lV18TVSd_e_Yz9.PWymBJp66d9D5tOgBKoo5pjPkaB2IgWYMAglgVoSk1R2XLK7T7a Gj2Ypmjs2yYrkl_AWJYH1nUf0x9HUiqRky1BhNnU_Nh4daFGT6XXL_ZTeelmxurQKqFlxva3ZnLx 0yEo2lbetYicGAVRbpwJlJ1EpkURcjldFt.1MrJ3MWUxPMaCJd8LPX8goEy8yHpLbmBx1x3_7N9h Ik9ayfJ7Z2bkv6o0l8XLx60HBaOubPJTfNdFP3aUP8LvUTfK9OUgCkLDwEzXHhi1.YEHD.9ZHN.0 WdSa3sNTjhcDETkixNHaZii0Rozjqz5KhiOBTlWC37ecOtMFUF_2v09u7tQfQ.b.JMXwkh_PDPm4 0IDR3JBAn1r9BmtCnbTsjFiLUN34tiX4EyCGwxAzbPXQIY_1zmbU.8hwCVK0OyPGiv0ijcXmlOl0 jhd3fK1_LY28Zs4yjcCnWqFkJWbsMtpljDInmr.._nApfI1vio7Sblydcb8JEmm4JQ42TUoEWdBQ SPmtIRdoaW1gKmdOPB2zhMbyk_diqlOP.E2tzAog518TMEUF5GMkOGG.o0CH98wGFTxQe6ruQFl0 WbjB1FACx6jaMKM74Cm7B8uPAr2XFBQxpf32zLoN4h7O8AV5TH6zyLOrrqw5qzVoYgMrNeQ0GVO0 kIotBAQzufwvEW2KVnwrqliUL4X1v3Oi_DftNIsyaRRdQGerQubEyLuGewkfZD94.1aj_mMwWfsP BC1Fr6UIw7liE55YrR0fKIdXfCfClQBmTKNcK5E_5cDgnj6c7hPwn0TOYghKY7pyXggCvmcq5Zfu dlQZ6iRp7saTcnCaZbKs- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:35 +0000 Received: by smtp409.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID fd227bbd171a5ec0ffa986ed9a27a95a; Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:32 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 02:22:32 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XT194g1fz4QjQ X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.17 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.97:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.66)[-0.664]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.005]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.97:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 00:22:39 -0000 My reply is intended as an explanation for the OP, not a reply addressed to Aryeh Friedman. On Wed, 27 May 2020 16:48:56 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >Will it? Almost all the best IT/programmers I know started with just >as difficult of a challenge so if the OP wants to do something hard >from the get go let them. Many skilled coders never maintained an official port for a BSD or Linux distro. Lots of them try to avoid soname issues [1] by not linking against shared libs of BSD or Linux default installs and they try to workaround other pitfalls, too. Let alone that some very skilled coders even don't support BSD or Linux at all. One of the best, if not the best professional EQ is from fab filters. "We're not planning support for Linux any time soon. It's a significant amount of work, and testing is harder than on Windows or Mac because there are various major Linux distributions, all with subtle differences. And of course the market is very small." https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/2924/linux-support-with-new-vst-sdk?replies=3 It's more or less the same for FreeBSD. "Maintaining" even a binary blob that doesn't link against shared libraries is still time consuming. While unskilled but giftet people might learn better when starting programming a more challenging software, than when programming something trivial, maintaining a port that needs to fulfil the policy of an operating system gains not that much, than first learning the basics without taking care about port guidelines. https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book.html The porters handbook and similar guidelines of other operating systems don't help a novice to become familiar with computers and/or a particular operating system. Trying to become familiar with computers and FreeBSD by maintaining a port is like hanging wallpaper to alongside learn how to lay bricks, too. You could do that, but especially to learn use of computers, it's way better to start a little bit structured. IOW first lay bricks, than hang the wallpaper. Starting with the wallpaper is a poorly structured strategy. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soname From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 01:18:54 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 861D92F57FC for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:18:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic307-7.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic307-7.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XVG51tnnz4VZb for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: h3mlxm8VM1k6CXdkeVIeU4ZK0o0tVd330B2yAOSt9nTSmucUpLoLQu3DRpyU9AN 5HxhzYlJ5slUYl8Tb0aLJL.LnEttVcjQDxAT5tXdSgD5JgT0v73yPoIAeetbSHHry9DxDbtg6xzN 6HzMNEtkN8Ye8em2bk9fhzbMGIwM0VOXF1nl4DLCdet9xhnivi6bMtgUMKP36gJIUCYQEqqM1CNZ Mc6LRFcXJnwQvFxSrWC2tIwmF.7WOxl6zs2qZOmxiaWXU0RF.ZvVyFT7rFdZJNg1uZURQ_Bm.YuT 8_1fcZZ5MqKFWnTE2w.u9WMxQH4GdBud3UICISrcNvqCIrcsenaImq4OmSGN16bvfzeNbl6VxZ8Z wKwVblqlSxHrBYipcu8_Hyox0hxOi3aBb79AB6K6rZJbhUM1iPEOI27gCHpDxzGgiawh9ZdV39pa Kx0kaOEDy_8dwGozbtQSEAPja_o9zty4G5_KW9JV2vUPEkOrJHuLMs6Wx_V6uPVwNhfUUD6RHX6X 9y7kuyZ2xQ5ZJd_dYJ8p9ahQd06YQR5bD__udGA2WOAS8HxmRmJoveG4AHzexN.S2s._u.rmcRTm NVplHaqjCLUTQXP_SYH6JPtqfSgA_jNgU132P7nrI6W1AuVmz8mIRvo5U1MuG9Qkb6biRos7_x6M 1DSufkpOtFfIhAVzBw1ULQ_X26.95XWF9ymClcA2.Q1WgiDxSqpdB9HK29MxOQoIKM6LQFVtIbvP ja5xsV6lOwN.qw8anne8XaKKLdDuZ32nLJ_WZCJLIU4gcTQ0UyfpaRAQfQFgv6Jhodjue3HcOY0g 9UJv0fN4bXUJGAvZy64Bb5XJ3t7.bzuY6fWIxYV5G8NeGzNopLD7CNCK0i5mSpAt7e9TReMGXocO 6guxbkzsAH4jUCerZC3NjCWibhHE9RjGy8vnkzxyogqsiCEOSajfLMCTIkznVYFYIXN7Rq5oRREo ACEsY_q.sAGFFWqk4k1VSvcvDMU5jQCnbqoi9PHwlzoMnujm.7h1LmvNGuQT4.BdEhL7w0lxedUQ wQMxkHqZYe_J4Y06w9e88y1OERaQFAqqqmZgqOZRM3ZDJjd41mWIszbMwYApikF4jQfVYz3_7Btp EHytKQXQBgerPmQ5G98mV8FYbKB_1etGtsk6FdPcKFd2BoNqlcUHum3widPMC8xCbixbdWvMhhLc drzPJqqpDVK2xvsNbvicCC.oqkf7Jj5gBPoFNPcViaLQ9Qmb_w4RMjsZACxRbDE18iA.PdZz8m7k CAkb4hYQExeHw__eLkFS885S3VBk8MVnoXkTsDYXAIRhmbpOw1Qw0PV1Iq_kcJo_DicAYytE3mD6 D_c2znmc1vmpMk_5KvQoDSFlMv3.TeR5WQnkoWXY.YACMnkOswX_rD12Hkdh6twX4nhUDCNKx7Be 3BmOpS3CTuzMTyysZ Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:18:51 +0000 Received: by smtp427.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 821242e96c01ee8fe2d803e7bae08925; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:18:49 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 03:18:49 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528031849.60f26a2f@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528003038.GA71642@neutralgood.org> References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528003038.GA71642@neutralgood.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XVG51tnnz4VZb X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.18 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.015]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[87.248.110.32:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.67)[-0.671]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.005]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[87.248.110.32:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:18:54 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 20:30:38 -0400, Kevin P. Neal wrote: >On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 04:35:29PM +0000, Brandon helsley wrote: >> So if I wanted to port Bote Mail from i2p I would just get the >> source code and refer to their licensing on their website and >> contact them for clarity? > >Sorry, I can't let this pass. > >Contact them for clarity on what? The license? If the license is >different enough from the common licenses that you have to ask for >clarity then that's a big red flag. A license is a legal document, and >if you need help you should be asking a lawyer that works for _you_. >Which costs money. Which is probably so seriously over the top that >you should skip it and just walk away. > >Seriously, the license should be in the distribution of the _source >code_, and it shouldn't require asking for clarity. If it does -- run >away. I used Google to find Bote Mail, maybe the OP is talking about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2P#Email -> https://github.com/i2p/i2p.i2p-bote -> https://github.com/i2p/i2p.i2p-bote/tree/master/licenses From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 01:22:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1264D2F5BDD for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:22:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XVKq22Hyz4W1n for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:22:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [IPv6:2607:fb90:6426:ee8d:fc70:68ea:c0b1:6ce2] (unknown [172.58.188.167]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 475DF4E652 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 20:22:06 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 20:22:04 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XVKq22Hyz4W1n X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.99 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.188.167:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.91)[0.910]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.98)[0.978]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(1.00)[1.000]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:22:08 -0000 On 5/27/20 7:22 PM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > My reply is intended as an explanation for the OP, not a reply > addressed to Aryeh Friedman. > > On Wed, 27 May 2020 16:48:56 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >> Will it? Almost all the best IT/programmers I know started with just >> as difficult of a challenge so if the OP wants to do something hard >>from the get go let them. > > Many skilled coders never maintained an official port for a BSD or > Linux distro. Lots of them try to avoid soname issues [1] by not linking > against shared libs of BSD or Linux default installs and they try to > workaround other pitfalls, too. Let alone that some very skilled coders > even don't support BSD or Linux at all. > Ralf, I fully agree with your very instructive presentation. There is one single word you have used that upsets me. Nothing to do with your point, it is just the word itself: "coders". The moment they invented that name to replace the word "programmer" I felt like they purposefully threw away all high level brain work programmers do and downgraded what they do to something like just "writing computer code". Back then when they were teaching us (not training, which would be showing trivial repetitive skills, but teaching, which is developing the ability to create something new). Well, when they were teaching us programming they described the process you will go through creating program as consisting of: 1. Stating problem and deciding withing which restrictions you will make program. 2. Choosing tools (including specific programming languages) 3. Making logical diagram (block diagram), and making sure that covers everything 4. Writing pieces (modules, subroutines,...) and making sure each does what you need it to do 5. Putting modules together, ... 6. And there starts big testing, debugging,... Of course, terminology changed, and my memory may not afford me the same way of putting it as my great teaches did... But now it probably is clear why use of the word "coder" is less than adequately describing what programmers actually do. Unless it is just a bunch of "coders" who write code for some programmer, or project manager... whatever. Just code, no use of brain, task akin writing trivial speech for politician. Just my 2 cents. Valeri > One of the best, if not the best professional EQ is from fab filters. > > "We're not planning support for Linux any time soon. It's a significant > amount of work, and testing is harder than on Windows or Mac because > there are various major Linux distributions, all with subtle > differences. And of course the market is very small." > > https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/2924/linux-support-with-new-vst-sdk?replies=3 > > It's more or less the same for FreeBSD. "Maintaining" even a binary > blob that doesn't link against shared libraries is still time > consuming. > > While unskilled but giftet people might learn better when starting > programming a more challenging software, than when programming > something trivial, maintaining a port that needs to fulfil > the policy of an operating system gains not that much, than first > learning the basics without taking care about port guidelines. > > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book.html > > The porters handbook and similar guidelines of other operating systems > don't help a novice to become familiar with computers and/or a > particular operating system. Trying to become familiar with computers > and FreeBSD by maintaining a port is like hanging wallpaper to > alongside learn how to lay bricks, too. You could do that, but > especially to learn use of computers, it's way better to start > a little bit structured. IOW first lay bricks, than hang the wallpaper. > Starting with the wallpaper is a poorly structured strategy. > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soname > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 01:24:15 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317062F5C97 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:24:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x130.google.com (mail-il1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XVNG1bkLz4WMW for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 01:24:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x130.google.com with SMTP id 18so26066808iln.9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:24:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5oLh3Z9he4a1rbPG5Nw599rnXXM07FEyfzx6y12PnNg=; b=Nki8QJ4v43Qyx6MjzwGCr6jHf2NnwI50gYan2weTFO5KGnz66z9qq/1GX2I9VOca50 hSbnAnpUJP3t8Bj+diA98aipmDIir0lT0l41BbRqthn8b8ZpUDgJFl7ocy4OpkGegMZS JPUgXAC/8iYs2jxnhTgvgn7cCyCSoaidj4Lxjp+5tOcyUJ/R33sUd6IeoHCEnOBOqJTY 4gYzzR/vF0kFJsNQBUqOeJ5NYiUJ4EZDWpGrm4Og4GIP1n9wTKT4POJqOlkFLc5MDtL8 aDTIz+MHctKBEl88EZcO+6P8nqfzVo69z+1rpbQs0k/xwb5UVKl4niob7V2Jk8rsapyI v41w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5oLh3Z9he4a1rbPG5Nw599rnXXM07FEyfzx6y12PnNg=; b=dIc5Zhf3UUrxFgzUsdGRSpY5xO+7HAoHaGS/RQXqaLsj+G16Va/aO08Q6gaD8Is2/O FsRqb8b0PEoFo/tY/e59HOYLLuR8JFQAzQeSfd/eVIq622Gk6FIMs8LwDVqK+SEaeLn7 YFegExi4oTlqsx1qErJ+zyTk4RsUXJJqCHt8Ix1a1T9q8pwtr9/4CidBH8Vi8L/Vbghc rkeqZ0Bq9aE115ihvhRuvYO4RHvv1Sa3OZdGUShjcF++t2gpfMn75L9miq6Vrub7z4E/ uC+IFQmss3XM2Vh/kstfL4xtma8kqeSwLvvVStLnHcdPfnrkB80TPAJDSx61K7EUR++n pSrQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5320xtnFVbsbEjXAQBxiItCznlrBwiEBKr1rvoSMAlJolUm6Xutd Yss0r4TjK0d3rswSVsSXP9htmE4IA9ZyhIpTbo8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxvKNLtw4MmvqNMIghTjA8dAx6JDPhtqY3H0aQxsk8+EIRVO4Aw+0iRp2JaawQ1sNEIHTf6GzrM/04874MHlDI= X-Received: by 2002:a92:6b10:: with SMTP id g16mr907388ilc.29.1590629052726; Wed, 27 May 2020 18:24:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Wed, 27 May 2020 21:24:01 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XVNG1bkLz4WMW X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=Nki8QJ4v; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::130 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.72 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::130:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.75)[-0.752]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 01:24:15 -0000 On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:22 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > My reply is intended as an explanation for the OP, not a reply > addressed to Aryeh Friedman. > Since you purposely misread what I said your going to get a reply. > On Wed, 27 May 2020 16:48:56 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > >Will it? Almost all the best IT/programmers I know started with just > >as difficult of a challenge so if the OP wants to do something hard > >from the get go let them. > > Many skilled coders never maintained an official port for a BSD or > Linux distro. Lots of them try to avoid soname issues [1] by not linking > against shared libs of BSD or Linux default installs and they try to > workaround other pitfalls, too. Let alone that some very skilled coders > even don't support BSD or Linux at all. > I only said "a challenging project" I never said what the project was, You (like almost every message of mine you have replied to) have taken it on yourself to assume this meant contributing to an OS or it's third party packages/ports (stop putting words in peoples mouths!). It could be any challenging project that has no/very few clear cut recipe like answers. Just a randomly picked example might be to write a basic mixing board program if your into audio. The soname issue is only a problem if you use non-symbolic names for the libraries (if you use symbolic you can easily change it at compile time the way autoconf does) or even better use a language other then C/C++ to avoid the issue completely (Python, Ruby, Java, etc. all come to mind as being *MUCH* more portable then C/C++ [that's why I do 90+% of my work in Java]). Not to mention those other languages not having easily abusable features like goto (longjmp counts), pointers, etc. (almost nothing that lives outside of the kernel needs to be that close to the machine). Note I switched to Java from using C/C++ for 15 years. So in short anyone who runs into the soname issue outside of super low level code is doing something wrong (a non-issue). > One of the best, if not the best professional EQ is from fab filters. > > "We're not planning support for Linux any time soon. It's a significant > amount of work, and testing is harder than on Windows or Mac because > there are various major Linux distributions, all with subtle > differences. And of course the market is very small." > Unless they are talking about the device driver layer then there is something wrong with their architecture if they need to worry about cross platform support. > > > https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/2924/linux-support-with-new-vst-sdk?replies=3 > > It's more or less the same for FreeBSD. "Maintaining" even a binary > blob that doesn't link against shared libraries is still time > consuming. > How would you know since you haven't done it? The total time I have spent on maintain the aegis port in the 10 years I have maintained is about 5 hrs. > > While unskilled but giftet people might learn better when starting > programming a more challenging software, than when programming > something trivial, maintaining a port that needs to fulfil > the policy of an operating system gains not that much, than first > learning the basics without taking care about port guidelines. > Language barrier here?!?!?!? You can't be both unskilled and gifted! It is possible to be skilled but not gifted but not gifted and unskilled. > > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/porters-handbook/book.html > > The porters handbook and similar guidelines of other operating systems > don't help a novice to become familiar with computers and/or a > particular operating system. Trying to become familiar with computers > and FreeBSD by maintaining a port is like hanging wallpaper to > alongside learn how to lay bricks, too. You could do that, but > especially to learn use of computers, it's way better to start > a little bit structured. IOW first lay bricks, than hang the wallpaper. > Starting with the wallpaper is a poorly structured strategy. > Depends on what he wants to learn. But I likely shouldn't hold a debate with someone on CS Education that has no background in it (btw it is my formal degree). BTW your metaphor is backwards programming is the bricks and frame where is making it look good (as a end user) is the wall paper. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 09:49:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D389F32C1F7 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 09:49:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) Received: from srv.fastssdserver.com (srv.fastssdserver.com [162.223.31.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XjZh2WvSz4Jhg for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 09:49:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from xpetrl@beepc.ch) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=beepc.ch; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version :Date:Message-ID:From:References:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To:Cc:Content-ID: Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc :Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe: List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=n/y/z6KN6tv+8AdQ8YGvPoQrN0gJAD/WMURrx6BfIUI=; b=bhz9LM4Cb3iouhdE5rjSg9pAdA XqdqeYktpWHqkzta1hE5g5RlOHVZ1Ei4Kfi2KJvVEpjUtk65pHp2ULUKL4GnaGamOZmyt9x6q1XzK aE960seye3TzVgh5wAg4oEtjXtBqGvADAChHNteLbbwxhVFcUMReL8VkAN5QaA1VqH0SS3c8tJbny YkM/jLRlmocfmX/CXNBDLkfma2VJ4aOnqat1OPd5x5Fn4mI6h0hYFbC8hMdyy87MgDQIRYh4uAxo3 tWJd9NuwkZwLxa7RqASU9lV0w1tALreZuFh4k4q39eIR/EdNJF3CkEfwx2gOYFFTqtSfs4/HJq99I YLr0qftw==; Received: from 37.245.43.185.wifx.net ([185.43.245.37]:44782 helo=[192.168.1.69]) by srv.fastssdserver.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1jeF9h-0038Vt-Gp for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Thu, 28 May 2020 14:48:53 +0500 Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20200527141409.5469f1a3.freebsd@edvax.de> From: "beepc.ch" Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:48:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - srv.fastssdserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - freebsd.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - beepc.ch X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: srv.fastssdserver.com: authenticated_id: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Authenticated-Sender: srv.fastssdserver.com: xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XjZh2WvSz4Jhg X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=beepc.ch header.s=default header.b=bhz9LM4C; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of xpetrl@beepc.ch designates 162.223.31.2 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=xpetrl@beepc.ch X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.53 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[beepc.ch:s=default]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; HAS_X_SOURCE(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.83)[-0.828]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[beepc.ch]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+a]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[beepc.ch:+]; HAS_X_GMSV(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.35)[-0.355]; HAS_X_ANTIABUSE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.15)[0.154]; ASN(0.00)[asn:46261, ipnet:162.223.31.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_X_AS(0.00)[xpetrl@beepc.ch] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 09:49:01 -0000 Preamble: I'm not a port committer / maintainer. I hope with my message I will not hurt anybody, because is OT and not related to FreeBSD. > How much experience is necessarry? I made myself this question a couple of years ago, when I wanted to learn the job of a 'port' maintainer. IMHO the best way to start is to begin as simple as possible. Knowing Slackware, is started maintaining a new Slackbuild https://slackbuilds.org xpetrl > I don't know anything about computers but got freebsd as a project to learn as much as possible. If I were to get involved does "teaching the ropes" at all possibly include learning other things like networking and possibly and hopefully learning how to port software? > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > > ________________________________ > From: Aryeh Friedman > Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2020 8:33:10 AM > To: Brandon helsley > Cc: Ottavio Caruso ; Polytropon ; Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions > Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert > > > > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 8:39 AM Brandon helsley > wrote: > What about port maintainership. Or port mentee? What Is it exactly. Good learning experience? > > Yes/no/maybe is it worth and is it a good learning experience. > > A port maintainer as Mathew said is resonible for keeping a port in good working order visa vie FreeBSD. A good example is when I took over maintainership of devel/aegis it was to update to the latest released version (the original author passed away in 2014 and no one has picked up the ball to make new versions since despite a small group of hardcore users [including my self]) and all was good then when FreeBSD started to phase out the preference for GCC I had to make some patches to make it work with LLVM, etc. > > Taking over a dead port is likely not as good of an learning experience as making and maintaining a new one. Contact me privately I have some ideas for stuff that can and should be ports that I haven't had time for (mostly side projects relating to PetiteCloud that I can maintain via aegis but not via ports due to not making the translation scripts completely yet) > -- > Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 11:31:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFB7332EF98 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 11:31:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Gabriel.Moyano@dlr.de) Received: from mailin.dlr.de (mailin.dlr.de [194.94.201.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mailin.dlr.de", Issuer "DFN-Verein Global Issuing CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XlrX1N2rz4SNJ for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 11:31:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Gabriel.Moyano@dlr.de) IronPort-SDR: 9CDxJlFKz4aAO+O3plWVArt0afkUUM5waPYfAMtlW6h0w9qhuA6hmz/UuUD6treLMjRIzwRCsf AZ4mu0BcptLQ== IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3Ale1ULhT0pEoNwIXyhO2PE6FESNpsv+yvbD5Q0Y?= =?us-ascii?q?Iujvd0So/mwa6zZBGN2/xhgRfzUJnB7Loc0qyK6v2mADZeqs/Q+Fk5M7V0Hy?= =?us-ascii?q?cfjssXmwFySOWkMmbcaMDQUiohAc5ZX0Vk9XzoeWJcGcL5ekGA6ibqtW1aFR?= =?us-ascii?q?rwLxd6KfroEYDOkcu3y/qy+5rOaAlUmTaxe7x/IAi2oAnLq8Uan4pvJqksxh?= =?us-ascii?q?bNv3BFZ/lYyWR0KFyJgh3y/N2w/Jlt8yRRv/Iu6ctNWrjkcqo7ULJVEi0oP3?= =?us-ascii?q?g668P3uxbDSxCP5mYHXWUNjhVIGQnF4wrkUZr3ryD3q/By2CiePc3xULA0RT?= =?us-ascii?q?Gv5LplRRP0lCsKMSMy/WfKgcJyka1bugqsqRxhzYDJfIGbOvlwfqLBctwVXm?= =?us-ascii?q?dORNpdVy5bD4+gc4cDEuwMNvtYoYnnoFsOqAOzCA6tCuz10TBInH720rM+0+?= =?us-ascii?q?g7Fg/G2wwhEMgIsHTTt9j6KaMSUfqvwKbV0zrOdvVb0iry54bUaB4uu+2MXa?= =?us-ascii?q?5ufsrLz0kiDwzLgkmfpIHqIz6YyusDvnaf4ud+Wu+ilXIrpQFvrjWrycohip?= =?us-ascii?q?fFiIwRx1za9St0zps4K9KlREJmb9OpEZ9duiKcOoBrTM0iRGRotzw7yr0AoZ?= =?us-ascii?q?O7cjIKx4o5yBHEcPyIbpKE4hX5VOaeOTt3mXZleKilixmv70etzPD3WMqs0F?= =?us-ascii?q?tSsyZJjsPAum0O2hHc8MSLV/Vw80S71TqR2A3f8vxILVwumabGKJMszaQ8mo?= =?us-ascii?q?cdvEnABCP6hkX7gaCQe0454Oan8f7nba/jppKEMo90jRzxPbo2l8ykBOQ4Lh?= =?us-ascii?q?AOX2+G+eSgzLHj/VP2QLFNjvAunKfXtp7UK8sbqKC5BAFb0YEt5QyhAzqp39?= =?us-ascii?q?oXnGcKIEhEeBKBk4jpIUvBLOrlAve7mVSgiipkyO7eMr3gBJXCMGTDna/8cb?= =?us-ascii?q?ph8UJQ1Qk+wN9F655JBLwMI+j/VlH+udDACx82KQ20w+LpCNVn0YMeXHqCDK?= =?us-ascii?q?6DP6zJq1+I5/wgI+2WaIESvzb8K+Iq5/jpjXIihFAdebOp0YEKZ3+mBvhmOV?= =?us-ascii?q?mWYWLwgtcdFmcHpgQ+TPb0h1KcSjFTfGu9U7sl5jEmFo2mFpvDRoGqgLyHxy?= =?us-ascii?q?e2BZNWZnpYBV+SCnjobJiLV+0LaCKILc8y2gADAOyvUYIs3wqi8RbnxqF7L+?= =?us-ascii?q?3S4QUWr5/u3sN5oerJmkdh2yZzCpHJ/GiHVWB5miUtQC4/2qdXrUhnjFuOh/?= =?us-ascii?q?sry8dEHMBesqsaGjwxMoTRmrR3?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2EgAwCHoM9e/xiKuApmgQmBSoEhgWM?= =?us-ascii?q?UgTMKhXipIYF8CwEBAQEBAQEBAQcBFA8MBAEBAoFOgT6BNgKCHSU0CQ4CAwE?= =?us-ascii?q?MAQEGAQEBAQEGBAEBAoZADII7Inh+AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARYCDTY?= =?us-ascii?q?eNxJTXgFHORQSAQQTCIMfgX6BDa8tgTSFUYUmgTiOXodGBBqBfxeFJwSOW4E?= =?us-ascii?q?ZiBmBL4lZkCUHgVaJLJAvJ5BHjUauQQIEAgQFAhWBU4IQcYM4CUcYDZAchEm?= =?us-ascii?q?EYYVCdAI1AgYBBwEBAwmMS4EQAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.73,444,1583190000"; d="scan'208,217";a="36861121" From: To: Subject: HW timestamping e1000 Thread-Topic: HW timestamping e1000 Thread-Index: AdY034vvgIH1zO4OQsGEhpyMhkP0eQ== Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:31:04 +0000 Message-ID: <21b2a889fc064188bf51da27211ab462@dlr.de> Accept-Language: en-US, de-DE Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-tm-snts-smtp: F4DB8CC9DB48F22E7CEBDDC842EBBD9340992E9A75531D58150F04A5B2B35B512000:8 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XlrX1N2rz4SNJ X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Gabriel.Moyano@dlr.de designates 194.94.201.12 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=Gabriel.Moyano@dlr.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.18 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dlr.de]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.16)[0.161]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[3]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.27)[0.267]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[194.94.201.12:from]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.26)[0.255]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:680, ipnet:194.94.0.0/15, country:DE]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:31:08 -0000 Hi everybody, Currently I am writing a piece of code to test HW timestamping on e1000 dur= ing reception, which runs on FreeBSD 12, but unfortunately it seems that it= isn't working. The socket is created and configured as follows: sockfd =3D socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); int on =3D 1; setsockopt(sockfd, SOL_SOCKET, SO_TIMESTAMP, &on, sizeof(on)); After recvmsg() is called, cmsg_type of received control messages are print= ed out with help of the control message routines (https://www.freebsd.org/c= gi/man.cgi?query=3DCMSG_DATA). SCM_TIME_INFO should be printed out but it's= not. Is there any configuration missing? Does e1000 support HW timestamping righ= t? I will appreciate any help. Best regards, Gabriel -------------------------- Deutsches Zentrum f=FCr Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. (DLR) Institute for Software Technology | SC-OSS | Lilienthalplatz 7 | 38108 Brau= nschweig | Germany Gabriel Moyano | Research Scientist in Onboard Software Systems group gabriel.moyano@dlr.de DLR.de From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 14:47:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 465B82F4358 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 14:47:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XrBk0XTcz4kdp for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 14:47:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MI5YH-1jpdfx064d-00F8GW; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:06 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:05 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Valeri Galtsev Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:t4JlXR9YYW/hUfcBMcpDp+jC7MwhhUfVUi5ULclP7rIgiy/nTZk fUotxquaBX3hZEk7ThTxV7RoZG21dEdcdNXeASgV6m0w3hf5gDdGbUeLJYA1j7KxbSLA4Dt zwX5vSuTbsizr+8hC2xnahmX3CwkfSlBuWGsVivPV14anF2kZZvhOkIR7o9Tt9JTM/gwaoQ ozPbEv6/mVUidhO6KNalg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:z61DGec9rgs=:cE8wFaQMZiqcVr/6T90kxi kHhcOh4nVOsA0c0B0SAW0X1Au0XB4XVsD9s9fHONugTs1qn3c3wp1wLE7wIsEqTSrGc/8bY27 ZmzWiTDJfqbri7a+pDXln7pjvkbIz9bHCAJG3nIXr/huJ0xjT3UzrgN21r9V3PA3DHW8n0nRq DNTrqVSb4faw8f6m7tcK5wyValtjFeFHvNYyAGH5Po4IdcrTRV1wrSn2iTjO6ztGs/k8ahXPg nTYU8YQMfPfsx1V8r8P9XKfyUZ9igNsDonU0Oc56PGHSYwsAXHThHYpsV64eVfZpObAJb+w64 VluIC3N5Q46OjLmm/JKpMM2jCiPWil8Q2KP8tkjQQLjpa4lZlmGuENbrlm0YUlFc4NdAVQy3l KvJops3HHvoUBBAY3VjiGXAUNMPSI9TEuVfDZr+7Nve/mA3GWQ4oJ0CMPKXxKT5NSMfCYroW6 mcsef4TQjY25axH/c9HwmtlThCCorQaYQ31SXYQLzUCiLH8gPTOGXQ9c2tsSKnhSN/0MVGbQP /iOz0iiCqqHwpJnMZPcDKcJlY5pqY6PfKYYJIptrKE0kh7pBGYYD3x/ZAG1EMbrOKOUoLiyrX rLuDAk4Q6UPlr2BSZmGqF+xAqiu1g12yFDN/mmUhv5jec8bh52GxyWiX/qaXCJ4xW6KLv9txG TMP7tCp97TPcxOPoGAPuaWEffpMXvNiu4uceueepR165zDWTPTTLoT7xgeT7OjcYE2mKr6alP 8weLvv3Zp6vhadntsviWyCJLzRjKk/t588f5drJY9I2TaV23FxHG5goP0MNBe3T6wN/uQ7nXc 5GBuu3/5in4fG5v/42Ki/g9Hm1xScso7SnReSMIIkZgsZk9AGwttoeEfYo1G2IJWtnBVRzb X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XrBk0XTcz4kdp X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.24) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.72 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.95.28:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.21)[-0.206]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.20)[0.203]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.32)[0.324]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.24:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.24:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 14:47:11 -0000 On Wed, 27 May 2020 20:22:04 -0500, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > Ralf, I fully agree with your very instructive presentation. There is > one single word you have used that upsets me. Nothing to do with your > point, it is just the word itself: "coders". The moment they invented > that name to replace the word "programmer" I felt like they purposefully > threw away all high level brain work programmers do and downgraded what > they do to something like just "writing computer code". That is exactly my impression. It looks like a separation of tasks: "This person here is a software architect, and his subordinates are software engineers. And here, down in the cellar, we have the coders..." - you get the idea. Historically, "programmer" meant _all_ stages of program development, from the "brain work" to "typing code into a machine", and of course all considerations in between. Today, we have words like "ninja" and "rockstar" for things that were probably normal programmers' abilities in the past. Coding is just a _part_ of programming, just as accounting is just a part of corporate book keeping. > Back then when > they were teaching us (not training, which would be showing trivial > repetitive skills, but teaching, which is developing the ability to > create something new). The essential difference is that teaching enables you to evolve from a certain point, enabling you to create something new by advancing from your foundations in knowledge and experience, whereas training, more or less, encourages you to repeat what others show you, to gain a certain excellence at "re-creation". This _might_ be sufficient in certain areas of software development, where copypasta is all you need, no understanding of the problem and its potential solutions... > Of course, terminology changed, and my memory may not afford me the same > way of putting it as my great teaches did... But now it probably is > clear why use of the word "coder" is less than adequately describing > what programmers actually do. My primary takeaway from university: "'Trial and error' is _not_ a programming concept!" As stupid or inappropriate as it might sound, it carries a certain truth: Sure, you can change your code so you don't get compiler errors, piece by piece, but as a real programmer, this is probably _not_ what you're going to do in order to solve a specific problem. "The program now outputs the monthly totals." "But those numbers are wrong!" "Can't be. The computer calculated them, so they must be right." > Unless it is just a bunch of "coders" who write code for some > programmer, or project manager... whatever. Just code, no use of brain, > task akin writing trivial speech for politician. "The compiler creates a binary, so what's your problem, d00d?!" :-) int x, y, sum; // x, y, and sum are integers (numbers) sum = x - y; // sum up x and y Yes, sure. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:06:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6408F2F4B56 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:06:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x132.google.com (mail-il1-x132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XrdN4RBhz4mQ0 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:06:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x132.google.com with SMTP id 9so403552ilg.12 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 08:06:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JQrx1wqQR2WctGFT6T8zrogMXZDq8TeWWxZjhLqKQpw=; b=AjOMgso75Zv6zbh39EHsvX/NBqENqUsuQ3dwF4lmrEdI+gnZimM8H3aa2Kib1LWQ2i g0KK+Q2d6hiGBuZeGAyRH9iHiaofvNeR1RhxbvB1C0pLWFQszqUtFn3kInSk+Toz33JY 0Hiilg+dy9YAhhvY3N1ZOu3yFvOLoCtnDWc2FkVloC1hND/6aTU1MiIunYXw5pP0b0yZ h4OL7w8zzFSQWrok9Bl+sllF84My+Sis0aPojwcZ7+PfJR28+8pfA1lLc3SKpjnw1E8S KYpf0k4dTP7aoy/9ai84yN532hUDoUGgsN1WH4dYm9lhKMant/myYFRRy1glaEDtj53J ZiBg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=JQrx1wqQR2WctGFT6T8zrogMXZDq8TeWWxZjhLqKQpw=; b=H0IH9bwHTBRvbp5DRUHBks84D92jIZlcSs+Bf8f8Z6RBS+zuGFSommYVGpGXG+6EAw U+orI+6bbuj4pDyBgB54uGl/KXbYHjeo6Gu104SW/Qh8dtWtWVHOvIPGVntCZGY8VslD Aw40rmJJwxJ9Uv2DoRBoqEvcwbb6fHp5fdY+QF8kNw0ltFde44vz3CPcXsq+12YlrvJD sIHNVcuj1y2QN+VFE/0suX9sjBm0obqvK1mtzonv3+SqHg0Xy5wsX6nfDZKjOIWcrzYy KXg90L+gZwajqGbF4ivCPzrddSgDh/xaqNcyuF/dO+oUWRrtVr9aDER8q6HHiuXuZp/G 0QtQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532PdnYhUhcjQ5tShGnHjIZ/N98BeoJqAThAI4ghO2QYc8zFhxVW BaBhpUtSrINvHw16QqAQ/i25oBM3iOmKpemdjLWG+nT0 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw96HlEMO6V32/cX7rpd34QblnIrNEDEK0rqE8BMCcAgnXYTTGR5wVvgYDhmBEI0/mkeg8gg3yHRTlAlpqGVlc= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c94f:: with SMTP id i15mr3006175ilq.185.1590678407364; Thu, 28 May 2020 08:06:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Polytropon Cc: Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XrdN4RBhz4mQ0 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=AjOMgso7; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::132 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.017]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.985]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::132:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.925]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:06:49 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 10:47 AM Polytropon wrote: > > Unless it is just a bunch of "coders" who write code for some > > programmer, or project manager... whatever. Just code, no use of brain, > > task akin writing trivial speech for politician. > > "The compiler creates a binary, so what's your problem, d00d?!" :-) > > int x, y, sum; // x, y, and sum are integers (numbers) > sum = x - y; // sum up x and y > You're being too generous to college trained monkeys (aka "coders" vs. "programmer") they would fix the bug as follows: sum = x - ( -y ); -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:13:56 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 924112F5096 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:13:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.13]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xrnb3k2gz4n7p for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:13:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue106 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N9M1q-1izR2x2joq-015Msx; Thu, 28 May 2020 17:13:51 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 17:13:51 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528171351.d113471f.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:BRYtB3KVx+Og7pwbgql9PeYt5bs+1opXBrFgF+FMdvxq3Lbc/3r hK3eKREpZ1vNNTvYrRAzzMasX0GeqBTCDSwTO7Rihja1W1yoWd2bY/nie0GQx4xtiG3dbsM 5HRxgSM2AVttXpTZGtD49yRKtQVQIomJtUCQhlw45Bn8S2iJTXsv9Fmv0Ffi+828ND2jhwj n479GTJjwbgOQH0BjZkhw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:spVBkrX6qVo=:eo+++8htCdnLr4sjoVjFzv DPJud2wS1/AkjqwtRTIKhjfsLyFP2bdXU0EWgbr3ZFWiBNBM1acgtjwUXAGDeU6y3KxZhuN78 /k5knQzMB9ydE3qfko0hy63KcISjBcGVWi/7tY67Cml+pydzAx/eobBfeRvQrI3JDIvix/5TV /31QEhjkYSmNdoRHewnH3/THXUi+yZDQlvENTN4RU5rgCcGyImJriVeXvdfLhrie9WdDj0vM+ lY/keM+OkswsqTBGjdK1IQUzGJ+aUC1fDsE1Q0v714D1lcKlcv+Rc/E5A42TLKCiU6WYXwyVE i6r5h0Ot6uGWfPgD6pAbiRsIQRgw2sHFa6kDLw47JrMuiWuYQNno38jojxL6j53RgXoIC6Jbk yiD2z3pPFuoZWbso117FOg3+KsPeT/Vq9YpiXK1msRATjTK2qM4HPmQYNiw/Zzrhh6rAXWSQa le0YEM0b+HKTbAmy4Baekx0yQRJ0RTB6vJUhuoCH4iUgFm9cGu23AG+qwBxpypPWGzyq9D6bR 02Ti55fla3ugIK6mVOis/RXO8HtoVXKUazTkOjoQhMcyv6/A2Szo6uqJ9WipqwOcYh2Lw9rJG 9Y80jJ8HqbS3L10WN6nwSkT9wrpPUA5BQPovixGoimIoetpY5f2b1173JVNqcyRs9zIVoohXi UuhCqCOUMehzeZIZybhllPejNT8FLEp6GboJtcFo2J5x/+LDJPS8HQE85xeaohNrQt19XYm6E ZIhT9ttXZIYHCzA5MAalHkxA19tCTA87FVJRuisKVr2ou5UIbom2ZTr4TJ2/2MqJXYonAFWh2 eXXFq7y6Ycubo7OW1AurZ2KARsrs30uWKzm1F9I+B+1sr5hdOVlfM2J4pB3vICPCslHab+I X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xrnb3k2gz4n7p X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.13) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.89 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.95.28:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.08)[-0.076]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.09)[0.094]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.47)[0.470]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.13:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.13:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:13:56 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 11:06:36 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 10:47 AM Polytropon wrote: > > > > Unless it is just a bunch of "coders" who write code for some > > > programmer, or project manager... whatever. Just code, no use of brain, > > > task akin writing trivial speech for politician. > > > > "The compiler creates a binary, so what's your problem, d00d?!" :-) > > > > int x, y, sum; // x, y, and sum are integers (numbers) > > sum = x - y; // sum up x and y > > > > You're being too generous to college trained monkeys (aka "coders" vs. > "programmer") they would fix the bug as follows: > > sum = x - ( -y ); Coders schmoders - the compiler doesn't complain, so there is no bug - and we can ship it! The price is $ NaN and estimated delivery date to {cusToMerName} is null. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:26:46 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DB442F55CD for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xs4N5jtbz4p58 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1590679605; x=1593271605; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:message-id:subject:cc:to:from:date:x-thread-info; bh=NHS5piuXuqIjNC+tqu77md7pCLSOwoq0VRy5QzbFWQQ=; b=c8UYVbB7Aqf4ryQus0WUNn+0gJPH9tYDpGEoKvVUDxMV2rZBt8s9Jr6esgtA8TkX3yuoHc2r42ahINI2xaO8HhPJ5hMCchVI1rw6atugZ/lytCXphHelDAkhQLZbSuq3tN6GsAL5Z50Sn8ZU5NWVbJyKrZoKSkcMmqeBqCZQc6A= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC45Mi4xZDRjMTAwMDc3OTIzNWQuZnJlZWJzZC1xdWVzdGlvbnM9ZnJlZWJzZC5vcmc= Received: from r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com [142.0.191.2]) by mxsg2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 28 May 2020 11:26:40 -0400 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [185.202.17.215]) by r2.us-east-1.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Thu, 28 May 2020 11:26:39 -0400 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.92.3 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jeKQX-0007V1-UW; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:26:37 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:26:37 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Polytropon Cc: Valeri Galtsev , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xs4N5jtbz4p58 X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=c8UYVbB7; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.33 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.003]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.65)[-0.647]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org, 4250.82.1d4c1000779235d.3a3ce970495e4fd959858a1d76ed3fa8@email-od.com] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:26:46 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:05 +0200 Polytropon wrote: > Historically, "programmer" meant _all_ stages of program development, Historically (in the days when COBOL was king) you had systems analysts who analysed business systems and decided what programs needed to be written, designers who designed those programs and programmers who wrote the code. Around the time I came into the industry it had collapsed to analyst/programmers who designed things and wrote the hard bits and programmers who wrote the rest. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:33:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8DDE2F58EA for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:33:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x12a.google.com (mail-il1-x12a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XsCz4Xdpz4q5P for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:33:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x12a.google.com with SMTP id l20so516937ilj.10 for ; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 08:33:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 11:33:07 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: Polytropon , Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XsCz4Xdpz4q5P X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=qnWw6se+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.38 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.017]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.985]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::12a:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.37)[-0.375]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:33:20 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:26 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:05 +0200 > Polytropon wrote: > > > Historically, "programmer" meant _all_ stages of program development, > > Historically (in the days when COBOL was king) you had systems > analysts who analysed business systems and decided what programs needed to > be written, designers who designed those programs and programmers who wrote > the code. > > Around the time I came into the industry it had collapsed to > analyst/programmers who designed things and wrote the hard bits and > programmers who wrote the rest. > That model only applied in the mainframe world as far I know it was never used in the micro/(non-IBM) mini world. -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 15:58:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 983672F66EC for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:58:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk (plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk [130.209.16.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xsmg2ghqz4sBN for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:58:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk) Received: from cas08.campus.gla.ac.uk ([130.209.14.165]) by plockton.cent.gla.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1jeKv2-0007G1-KB; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:58:08 +0100 Received: from cas07.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.164) by cas08.campus.gla.ac.uk (130.209.14.165) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.2; 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dkim=pass header.d=gla.onmicrosoft.com header.s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com header.b=Nz6A6iWG; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk has no SPF policy when checking 130.209.16.75) smtp.mailfrom=Norman.Gray@glasgow.ac.uk X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.71 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.978]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:s=selector2-gla-onmicrosoft-com]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[130.209.16.75:from]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.92)[-0.920]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[glasgow.ac.uk]; RCVD_DKIM_ARC_DNSWL_MED(-0.50)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[130.209.16.75:from]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gla.onmicrosoft.com:+]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.81)[-0.809]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:786, ipnet:130.209.0.0/16, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:58:12 -0000 Greg, hello. On 26 May 2020, at 19:25, Greg Veldman wrote: > Yes, you're probably going to have to touch all the machines > (or have your config management tool of choice do it for you). ...or at least touch a subset of them, to make their NFS domain the same as the 'other' set's DNS default. *sigh* Also: It's the wrong list to ask this on, but would you happen to have any pointers on getting this NFS-domain configuration working on CentOS or similar machines? I can find nothing intermediate between the RFC and the nfsidmap tool & idmap.conf manpages. Doing the obvious configuration doesn't work, and even the debugging syslog messages give few clues about what, precisely, is wrong. Even the linux-nfs.org wiki [1] is... thin. Best wishes, Norman [1] https://wiki.linux-nfs.org/wiki/index.php/NFSv41_Introduction -- Norman Gray : http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/it/ Research IT Coordinator : School of Physics and Astronomy // My current template week for IT tasks is: Monday, Tuesday, and Friday From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 16:00:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 233D22F6A25 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:00:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com) Received: from s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com (s1-b0c6.socketlabs.email-od.com [142.0.176.198]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xsql2bSmz4sVQ for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:00:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 17:00:47 +0100 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 17:00:47 +0100 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Polytropon , Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.7.0 (GTK+ 2.24.32; amd64-portbld-freebsd12.0) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xsql2bSmz4sVQ X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=email-od.com header.s=dkim header.b=aTnbGafJ; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of 4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com designates 142.0.176.198 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.76 / 15.00]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[email-od.com:s=dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.007]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:142.0.176.0/20]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[sohara.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.999]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[email-od.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.55)[-0.552]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[142.0.176.198:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:7381, ipnet:142.0.176.0/22, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[steve@sohara.org,4250.82.1d4c100077a61ad.9ba87f550a43ecc90c73546549537b4a@email-od.com]; SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS(1.50)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:00:52 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 11:33:07 -0400 Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 11:26 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith > wrote: > > > On Thu, 28 May 2020 16:47:05 +0200 > > Polytropon wrote: > > > > > Historically, "programmer" meant _all_ stages of program development, > > > > Historically (in the days when COBOL was king) you had systems > > analysts who analysed business systems and decided what programs needed > > to be written, designers who designed those programs and programmers > > who wrote the code. > > > > Around the time I came into the industry it had collapsed to > > analyst/programmers who designed things and wrote the hard bits and > > programmers who wrote the rest. > > > > That model only applied in the mainframe world as far I know it was never > used in the micro/(non-IBM) mini world. It was tried - I met it being tried in the early days of CP/M business applications, along with COBOL for the Z80. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith | Directable Mirror Arrays C:\>WIN | A better way to focus the sun The computer obeys and wins. | licences available see You lose and Bill collects. | http://www.sohara.org/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 16:09:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 103002F6BEF for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:09:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: from aurora.gregv.net (aurora.gregv.net [IPv6:2607:5600:bd::1:1000]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49Xt1c6QDCz4t56 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:09:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@gregv.net) Received: by aurora.gregv.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id E50A8FC; Thu, 28 May 2020 12:09:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 12:09:17 -0400 From: Greg Veldman To: Norman Gray Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: Documentation and debugging for NFSv4 Message-ID: <20200528160917.GU1068@aurora.gregv.net> References: <20200526172613.GN1068@aurora.gregv.net> <6FE7F8A1-F296-4B85-A7C8-E360F8D559B6@glasgow.ac.uk> <20200526182550.GP1068@aurora.gregv.net> <0E8D01CC-8BB3-456A-92C0-019F4B9AF447@glasgow.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <0E8D01CC-8BB3-456A-92C0-019F4B9AF447@glasgow.ac.uk> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xt1c6QDCz4t56 X-Spamd-Bar: + Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@gregv.net has no SPF policy when checking 2607:5600:bd::1:1000) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@gregv.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [1.26 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.33)[-0.330]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.08)[0.075]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[gregv.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.61)[0.613]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31863, ipnet:2607:5600::/32, country:US] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 16:09:26 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 04:58:06PM +0100, Norman Gray wrote: > Also: It's the wrong list to ask this on, but would you happen to have > any pointers on getting this NFS-domain configuration working on CentOS > or similar machines? I can find nothing intermediate between the RFC > and the nfsidmap tool & idmap.conf manpages. Doing the obvious > configuration doesn't work, and even the debugging syslog messages give > few clues about what, precisely, is wrong. On most distros (including CentOS I think) the daemon name is rpc.idmapd and its config file is /etc/idmapd.conf. In theory you should only have to set the "Domain" keyword in the "General" section of that file. In practice, it's often not that easy. I've typically found that if you run it as: # rpc.idmapd -f -vvv you're likely to at least get enough debug into to point you in the right direction. ;-) Good luck. -- Greg Veldman From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 17:35:20 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAB812F89FD for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 17:35:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic305-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic305-20.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.177.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xvwk6ZtXz3XTW for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 17:35:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: owbkgxsVM1mAwNOobcw5TO6rLcv4lyeLxz4y0EFhrKb5pZfxZ4mF0gBhMJnjOg4 Vc2ZG1hDXJDpNrZusA3.ivfG87m78WxuZ6z2FX6AYaHa_N213JfrhyFxK1Wa.Pjslz3I8H2V0DSL vdjHgI02wOFE25PKju4glCBQwTQfqmhncM_FI_QPjyADj7vb93G75DpZOyt0lGR4xhtaTmrBosu9 RcHmC0Vh7491M5owJgHLHQ86XoQ7uV3v5YyM3BparEU0ut2ABmiD3ceYB8GrF463eOkiSjsxN.rc n7BF6q92S5mT2ajLVCfm2JWzuJaqlk3rT.scB8d.QQWrtS5aHbuAt0ApAeKIn6kAOPYcmJqL7JXH oVHu9dgW7dXvhVxeiC.A3GAVSQiC7n9bnP9uVzkfLa.6YsIwLX3oy3YjmyBylQu.B_mNB8bxMCsu FbkEp8WRRo.np7MsRMk0F6eOoKpp8NeCmvb5WRb6hOfcj6Yw2pR2z6siUJafFXzc.DbrEtOqHtBR ohcVE33NHgEPtTAhWw2GRpl4Q5bGlzJcVt1wsR1TCG0JIuaW1Uq0.nQ9R1bBEv58bcj7ewj3uhmx eF1j8AeyQeQjGuw2eioZN6HwOSL.tvBD4jlMLbs0WUuxBXPPwF6sSFlbSl2Q1k9vQfb305DL3MB4 upN0IODXYlnUUT0fxBaKr0pDWUJdrmodL5Mt_KqmoW8U7mIT6SESoD5q4sG9ElR8ShQiBHjS.xli 1Pgn.x7imQHmfeoak3FTGO054qIegZ7XU8fK0oIfMvl.350JbEU78rwW.wnfYAVKNwEV9xAXPxTt VVwtlOiC8g7JpJMfZ_MC_ubn1XdCCIrqRta2TRzJYA5xgwkPr2EarZrVT.oR3luIIVmX4WbQslqf C0tML9y1JxP.RtmelXaMzhQdaUSIEYEruBu8PdQ8rKmLves.r.J.IWcv2YrZx2QUsCTTrGI3IPDe NdpaOkqSBY0_qI2rH5X2soBI9g5L.EQNp413jxjxA5WSw99d4CPaVtN_WEnkDrVsWRmZq5cLVCDH FP4ydB1zprh_AQ6uaZBwsS8tSXalfXxIouggnakr.JOqioHzYGMp3PSPv7WlUgCCLESWhFgasRm7 vg88PF9PgUCiYwBNbXPAvTGUQ5nDrf3_hrsuC5CIaOPZ1nmg6VJqpyY9EuNgh_vIhrOVbRfMlTBR _mbsa1575vUB8ebdOWFfUFR99U3.hZbtf0Kajjv..Ji3VS0tQHpJrFftKzRxNrfR4yGZrfEcPDEV _aqyuh92.xJkNHublFqVWgsh09rEnh18myFT8RjeX3mjpRAE2wT2CaWNg6M9xIQymrFuxnOkq4YN UEmRqIaRjggj.SzHta2NtbWA9hxh8UCVAgIz2nACB3E5u7HIkcbO6.sD0BPnJeYdz3Ba5j1J7P3O BPKObvg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic305.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 17:35:15 +0000 Received: by smtp403.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3eb2e4eec132ddb3f0533c4b10f04429; Thu, 28 May 2020 17:35:13 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:35:12 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xvwk6ZtXz3XTW X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.92 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_GOOD(0.00)[77.238.177.82:from]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.951]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.177.82:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.53)[-0.525]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.958]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 17:35:21 -0000 Simple dictionaries don't care that much about style. I can see Valeri's point, but I'm amused about the bikeshed. However, I read "coder" way more often than "programmer" on computer and/or audio related mailing lists and forums and Dict confirms that both are allegedly correct translations for "Programmierer". https://www.dict.cc/?s=3DProgrammierer English =E2=94=82Deutsch =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80 programmer =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} coder =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} programer [Am.] =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} computer programmer [jobs] [comp.]=E2=94=82Programmierer {m} programmers =E2=94=82Programmierer {pl} In Germany it's inappropriate to say "Mucke" instead of "Musik", but a lot of people don't care and call it "Mucke". At least Dict mentions "ugs." =3D "colloquial". For "coder" there's no such hint as "coll." or "vulg." or something else. https://www.dict.cc/?s=3Dmusic English =E2=94=82Deutsch =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=09 music [mus.] =E2=94=82Musik {f} music [mus.] =E2=94=82Mucke {f} [ugs.] [Musik] =09 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 18:02:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2A63B2F8E6D for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (mailman.nyi.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::50:13]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49XwXc6rgFz3ZT6 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id EB0072F90D9; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:56 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EAC412F8E03 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from libero.it (smtp-36-i2.italiaonline.it [213.209.12.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XwXb49y5z3ZMx for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from salvatorembartolotta@libero.it) Received: from oxapps-11-064.iol.local ([10.101.8.74]) by smtp-36.iol.local with ESMTPA id eMrkjWRnhU4WQeMrkjeFQA; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:02:53 +0200 x-libjamoibt: 1601 X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=QsAgIm6d c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=ojq0VnVTS2/CxZR53wvDZg==:117 a=va6rmY3RZU4A:10 a=IkcTkHD0fZMA:10 a=6COVkljPvkcA:10 a=HfjpIsAm_iaoVAXxfh4A:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:02:52 +0200 (CEST) From: salvatorembartolotta@libero.it To: Masachika ISHIZUKA Cc: questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: <541290807.815064.1590688972628@mail1.libero.it> In-Reply-To: <20200527.154010.456241527955787106.ish@amail.plala.or.jp> References: <1590634251.1341132.1590515827296@mail1.libero.it> <20200527.154010.456241527955787106.ish@amail.plala.or.jp> Subject: Re: rEFInd and _two_ FREEBSD systems on the same disk on the same UEFI laptop MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Open-Xchange Mailer v7.10.1-Rev30 X-Originating-IP: 151.63.216.180 X-Originating-Client: open-xchange-appsuite x-libjamsun: LxhUCEJ8run48ZHw7b45HsA/hGsDKa6aOjyvOVMYJ14= x-libjamv: fgT+FfGMLAc= X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfPewrqmtAL1JqlDxX6U4dRbScZ143dbpe9tdG5NWTr1Iftg09SxKG/SI7F7QA052PCFSq8fy2H70lhpOo+PAWJNciVSnFzPbvJJRaKCU9fM/jECiRHAY bnlnW6oMkvEjFE+5K+bWQzozSn1UuQ36sGAWDyP55wOfk7I3yY1eQkYXUshrAScwVoPTYG1hNIKT4dUekjUI0bcvENBQ5AS+AOgnwNazsgcemczubtR36mww X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XwXb49y5z3ZMx X-Spamd-Bar: ------- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-7.08 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[libero.it]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:213.209.8.0/21]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[libero.it:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; HAS_X_PRIO_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.12)[-1.123]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[libero.it,quarantine]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[libero.it]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8660, ipnet:213.209.0.0/18, country:IT]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[libero.it:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.995]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[libero.it:s=s2014]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.961]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NO_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[213.209.12.36:from]; WHITELIST_SPF_DKIM(-3.00)[libero.it:d:+,libero.it:s:+]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(0.00)[213.209.12.36:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:02:57 -0000 > Il 27 maggio 2020 alle 8.40 Masachika ISHIZUKA ha scritto: > > > > Has anyone installed two BSD (say -RELEASE and -STABLE) on the same disk on the same UEFI machine using rEFInd? > > I'm using rEFInd and /dev/ada0p9 is / for 12.1-release and > /dev/ada0p10 is / for 13-current. > > I copied /boot/loader.efi (from current) to /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi. > > /EFI/refind/refind.conf is like the following. > > menuentry FreeBSD-release { > loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi > options "rootdev=disk0p9 autoboot_delay=1" > icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-release.png > } > > menuentry FreeBSD-current { > loader /EFI/freebsd/loader.efi > options "rootdev=disk0p10 autoboot_delay=1" > icon /EFI/refind/icons/os_freebsd-current.png > } > -- > Masachika ISHIZUKA Good afternoon, Thanks for your swift and to-the-point reply. Three remarks spring to my mind: 1) loader.efi is so smart as to manage, by _itself_, internal disks HDs/SSDs[1] (my laptop hosts a Samsung pm981 SDD),- no refind drivers for FreeBSD filesystems are needed; 2) loader.efi (about 500K in -CURRENT) is, so to speak, a full-fledged program, much smarter than loader(8); and I suppose loader.efi implements a _superset_ of the features of loader(8), documented in loader(8)'s man page; 3) There was a gotcha for my laptop. Setting the rootdev variable, apparently, made no difference and refind only booted the first system in the disk. I guess this has to do with the traditional (split) partition layout I had chosen for both of FreeBSD variants: 512K freebsd-boot[2] type partition, then \, swap, \var, \tmp, \home, and \usr. I reinstalled both variants with almost the same scheme, i.e. with _NO_ freebsd-boot type partition. The rootdev variable then just worked(TM). [1] I have yet to find a Linux distro able to detect my SSD out of the box(TM) - i.e. without requiring changes in the UEFI settings. [2] Such an example can be found in FreeBSD's handbook. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 18:16:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49E272F972F for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:16:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x131.google.com (mail-il1-x131.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::131]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Xwrg4V0tz3bH8 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:16:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x131.google.com with SMTP id r2so1184455ila.4 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 11:16:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 11:16:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 14:16:38 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Xwrg4V0tz3bH8 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=jLYKyKAZ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::131 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.90 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.015]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::131:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.893]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:16:52 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:35 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > Simple dictionaries don't care that much about style. > > I can see Valeri's point, but I'm amused about the bikeshed. > > However, I read "coder" way more often than "programmer" on computer > and/or audio related mailing lists and forums and Dict confirms that > both are allegedly correct translations for "Programmierer". > > https://www.dict.cc/?s=3DProgrammierer > > English =E2=94=82Deutsch > =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80=E2=94=BC=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2= =94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94= =80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80=E2=94=80= =E2=94=80 > programmer =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} > coder =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} > programer [Am.] =E2=94=82Programmierer {m} > computer programmer [jobs] [comp.]=E2=94=82Programmierer {m} > programmers =E2=94=82Programmierer {pl} > Don't trust lay person literal translations and/or dictionaries when dealing with jargon terms (it will almost always get you in trouble and/or make you look an idiot). A better way of finding put the difference would of been something like the following google search https://www.google.com/search?q=3Dprogrammer+vs.+coder > > In Germany it's inappropriate to say "Mucke" instead of "Musik", but a > lot of people don't care and call it "Mucke". At least Dict mentions > "ugs." =3D "colloquial". For "coder" there's no such hint as "coll." or > "vulg." or something else. > An example of in experienced translation going from English to German (one of my close friends is German and allows me to try awful and clueless translations sometimes on them) is if railway is eisenbahn then why is (auto) high way not autoeisen. Of course my understand of German is very limited and was quickly corrected with him explaining bahn meant "broad path" and eisen is iron and thus both terms made sense as being Xbahn not eisenX. Saying coder instead of programmer (or developer) is the same kind of translation problem. --=20 Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 18:48:39 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF7492F9C66 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:48:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XxYK3WsTz3dnW for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:48:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: us95kxsVM1kyXUXgjQG2_USNcLrwx3X17ELUWBjYIIYUK_uRvZq0jXEhJxtyY8x g0RvFAK3yX7p1uYMAl.3qjGe1IUjwnnLetBW5.LjF4V9GLWKz9BkRFFsQF1ouvnxC.zIiTDH16mF at9B2iZusRhK8AyZ7MlcOvhn8chjrkxeQ8a4OsltT4xI92_CimJfL6P.aKgJTwngwgw_UeBwc7G9 gfRHvi6.Zs1T0Z3atAOUqCBGYY5vQ0o0WVbUG6dd_.6SrwSIfhyXEmz8BbmD2dUzBy.u4_49vMcy cbKvD8BeEPuHKTwqtPSgwye0ui4mJBXGw1hMRiCQV3U0PBdrvizUSMy4w.51lAHclm.3fql069If aYiB5uDfQIHAF.1jlIQ4IxYq4ZzJblChHLMyWzrjMf05iB_Tr72PMNEDhrDuP6WALsBvk3zCpGub Fe_giczeReI1s06H50fLWYYAbbFT2wLeINbX7di_xFsPP1uNZlUJY_JP6wGHiI4.YvyMMfihAJGZ vFdqxNrO2yMOg4GSntsvnY6w.AmUQiRZr1ZKbRqob51uZaOPixviOoX3V7AXcgljq.ijwzQ9W7O5 .qv.HQ.zjHTfP8cKdaMvhkoSmZxiGoyb9jf2fn3MsZk_7to2m9kqxl8cO2egYb.281N6l.mdsDvG .yx0k1VrlqP1p7gnXbS8UEIP32K2BSht6L52Dq42nx0qYTNtzUW5mLfZQ4HydgnSyU6pgZ3yGu17 psWXffpMrqKp0K6Qd2.qlhR0BjHmGS9PM0uInQrpNJeAqTfTvpOQ6T3BMoWew31j4B0KhuUDmfAz RX.eAjBpduBWoMSsiSJJ7O9gsBlFcApZeTjUYi3aJS7Slx4G2CGyMViBnlRdX_hzGWNtk9KlIw5c TwmCaVEOBX2qaiZ7bAHNheQy4wuofowjd8AYQhV1Wms6A3bAHHmmqw3ap2HkZtFefwbd_uIvboZv Z3qX9LJHw7jQH1XUs7LgWmLeO2P51z9C7EO7dEz.Mjq5ScUpsfiq4aP8O3CLniPdlZYLFVEceqPQ W8ZjZrnCXCO2Q6MQ8qWBdjYE0Kw9ScR5TEFVAb5F_ALpE.iZSbfbJ.paAGd2YIbfrAP0rFeFF7tE 4J.THCrTiIq5rpP5xMscSWWbhliII5CbkIqRUBGvOOIfU4YxEwix9fQDc580dc4ChIh76vW1uKyK R4XT48sgxCd..zSyvwG01AN7go08S5bkdIEDben0LHp7S16b27REd9SoVVEFgOS84YlY9dp258vZ vmWnpmX1QuUqmkcn6Pfdlnkmz7xl3Bru3yC5hvwA023Z7icmgmAchny2JPkqcQR5LO6_tu8PL9j9 YfsjWWz9GlynRLseI.5NtPVRLNxo1vvWuydG8Bquvt6lvzJAyqg-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 18:53:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XxgL0NNjz3fLK for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:53:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id d5so21751444ios.9 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 11:53:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=1U57T+G+81d+inhCoW59Kafvdsr9c2IrOmJyU0JxHds=; b=gafHSbi+7g9PFJADe+brNFiEnGEfVDR0+1OzbaAB07wMwtY9vhbtjXwbgdVwk8sAgJ XhZOYwS3MXAG6U9KkQwa4ilmbENDW92iiV6t+pL5/qS2eeKaI+/VAIMJ6svCpVpnu0qt Pj7zp4NHKv6MoPZUZDDyOxfu9CVvv9tcnolPa8L2h6JbYcoVrQw51zOyL0VaAeYFEP3U W3Sc5jvP3OCU0lDT1lt7YgFfCqhd6PRRuUSRdvtwMdQ/2g7CXFrgqtpDr5Q+W1bE8CQL eclLwjA+qDSBhkg44bi5QopVUi/Xiva5I/8L6N0ItjAoGh7vwRbGGUpkCG4Q0mHG3Hpz +uFg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=1U57T+G+81d+inhCoW59Kafvdsr9c2IrOmJyU0JxHds=; b=nn+Y9kCOQxm2TB9dj65Kirwwk14lqn5x26AcTxnZrSQM7wsAj7P4yB03UUwRHRbNk2 ZjCHnF6McrCfoS7IqSddE822w0StCbMZ3C6O+AfI4j5ouSrAjO8b1j3ucZlchamyhlJD 4ew8nOTuDTERwks3baPkXqmsorkJ5C4efEbHTC0RVLfIOReA2rzU3+3oRqMhWkQHj1m0 WERtLQeR+QLNLhVaOlXaTAuFePUGaXm1+hAOEf97RR48P7SyRl7b/yvAQ4hLOUmCjAmO ZBGmDY6jIOI+9DsgHhIDDRc/io1AruvEZM3i4zfrSDrCgcPBZhJ5gv9YPLCveabyZdwC mRPw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532FJD9/IySBf1feH6j4uUMJjp8bmAZaIBWcrABenhu0jxLtNM35 aNLNmo/h7lkinHpbKeAbRiXmtHnchd6jgoeqDPY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgl9+0ow20b01zpNuSSwxZ0NvvZNLOaU0APf5dqu4mGcy6Zw5VCCEyEPC0HkV59wZs8rvSutEtFhBYG7qyGY8= X-Received: by 2002:a02:95a6:: with SMTP id b35mr3808414jai.40.1590692028734; Thu, 28 May 2020 11:53:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528204832.7bf83e2b@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528204832.7bf83e2b@archlinux> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 14:53:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XxgL0NNjz3fLK X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=gafHSbi+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.91 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.015]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.997]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.897]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:53:51 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 2:48 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxrVgYlUYAAp8eb.jpg > > SICR > > -- > https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html Saying something makes "you look an idiot" *IS NOT THE SAME* as saying you are idiot... an other language translation problem I think. If you think the first means the second then no wonder we are not communicating. | _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 19:01:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F1F92FA4F8 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 19:01:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49XxrS3Y9bz3fvn for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 19:01:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MUokB-1jVxkf2lqT-00Qi1n; Thu, 28 May 2020 21:01:36 +0200 Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 21:01:36 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Aryeh Friedman Cc: Ralf Mardorf , FreeBSD Mailing List Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200528210136.b1e8d772.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FYWCr4j8qenjLiawiR4kFZswS4DFsRUmU+KnZz0BIFx/9wjBSzx LFkANy6w7gJDCTzjZ8mTX1jQUpvWXttl9clIoR3+BoCIY7GXeOHAS4409zJl5dZTZ51Reex YfIzksx+D/FFPSFWPgk2iOHgu9Vgrc/PZtZAhTyYUysPMGNj2Df/lH2fGrOE5Juut0hHmJH gqQMZX67ueoGs2oHCiwTA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:ZrR7PJDQ8LI=:jOkOxhGYQw628wYZY0ZuD3 ZTjgv7okmkI3sUm0u3Tr2Am51LP+h1i3OXERrN7/OYrycSuu7dVp6+zUtRIEI76hgLDAsaBxZ UvLtGpvvimnd3TpySZR90CFFhRjy9wFIKj44qU8AQoMjVY3rQDo/27Pm8g3l0KQDELEoQJgiA gp+fOtJw0buU46Th3MTsxjmAqNlFVaWhbJMb7YuqgszkTZ7pTZrcEINObLiarAKXsbdT6GhcJ lZf3ke+UrQCRjT8yr3KGUFnDXXmzt5XUIFdj7JhSEDg8s6cL+tXTRIfhi76Nuczlfk9BFzu2b PBUUWnEUR4+4Q5l0Y9tTu62WPgcxwzCq3FyXeBJvurctNpvWc7my+7JQugrE4Wy7gXTHA9Y1G Ht1I1276jxnkyLoevwpqeHDzq3xng4x9dEyMlOuUq8FH33sl/XUH45dumxF2arD1Yg8wFuRy6 gWjy1Ulk93nCoXxZgs4jmynzXiGrAvSbPZ7GNkJa185U/Nj3XOuOw1539xER7W9gD8+G/CHPN zV+4Vja8FD727rot6uXkqmeC0wzQmXLYdC6t1Gj0i1+SU+xQbqyOS6WdYUZ7LUgaoKtprPx3W e4YpnwU21RuUumqElUTRBXNsYzEdv8JxsbUqOWF0YXFB2u6lt5YNcYVZt8YcRXEz5Td+1rn44 JWUD7wvue/DSEqgXHTuGUWR7uUHjbF7tXy6SBCAiCaObgouU1lK5Gatu8vTrYcybKZejOgld0 19Q+q0ilrYs6CZk/faVszLRrz/eAkJ2JyxebFYigQvizRoRuCscLps+qcf36Xlnq6SmZuydyu nVuXaPYH8sI6z/UfVvwYyYHeJLVlVfKY+S/IyYTytLq51qsJiNB/hO8uMYvegvadSBwxZGn X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49XxrS3Y9bz3fvn X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.73) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.78 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.95.28:received]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.34)[-0.344]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.21)[0.205]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.52)[0.521]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[217.72.192.73:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[217.72.192.73:from]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[rocketmail.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:01:45 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 14:16:38 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 1:35 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > > > > In Germany it's inappropriate to say "Mucke" instead of "Musik", but a > > lot of people don't care and call it "Mucke". At least Dict mentions > > "ugs." =3D "colloquial". For "coder" there's no such hint as "coll." or > > "vulg." or something else. > > >=20 > An example of in experienced translation going from English to German (one > of my close friends is German and allows me to try awful and clueless > translations sometimes on them) is if railway is eisenbahn then why is > (auto) high way not autoeisen. Of course my understand of German is very > limited and was quickly corrected with him explaining bahn meant "broad > path" and eisen is iron and thus both terms made sense as being Xbahn not > eisenX. I like "Autoeisen" and I will definitely find a use for it, thank you. And of course, highway !=3D Hochbahn. Consider: der Computer =3D der Rechner, but the calculator !=3D the computer. And for compound nouns: It just doesn't work to dissect them, translate piece by piece, put them together again and expect something understandable; for this specific reason there's Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapit=E4nsm=FCtzenhaltenagel- einschlagwerkzeugverkaufsstellenleiterbef=E4higungsausweisinhaber, or just use Java. ;-) > Saying coder instead of programmer (or developer) is the same kind of > translation problem. It's even more complicted: You have jargon - established words that carry a specific meaning, and you have termini technici - words that have become _the_ exact name for things. From the jargon, there are certain deviations or or exaggerations (for example "coder" - "code monkey"), whereas termini technici are always used as is (for example: "DHCP", not "automatic address retrieval" or "extern address assigning"). Words and their meaning can change over time, but termini technici hardly do so, they just become outdated, or only used in a specific niche ("monitor (program)", "fixed-head storage"). It's hard to tell if words like programmer, developer, coder, ninja and rockstar belong to jargon, t. t., job title, job function, or maybe there's just some current consensus as "the coder is the person who types in code" without asking where the code comes from - his own brain or copypasta. --=20 Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 20:47:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F34362FD737 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:47:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic307-54.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic307-54.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y0B05PdFz48RH for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:47:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: BBYchT0VM1lCdqWkAQlpxi0Z6WasFkp92ENJdDzXIFL_LFUj.RDLtHxlUJMF8Cm dqJG5WXNSRPBeFvQJU9g3AR7nnjOthnQjdpk2X7FSy1B2Z4wQqIhU7TONZA1LpX2pdac1jG3k1jT K4LDhwEJKPOfWbLddyk6imLJgq1nX3mPqtEU3Y33.ekfajBR.LfPEbYXKVXJJgyS3krpetLSq04F bbwPRagy2wKFMwnKIPxb0EfChUeDfkgk_T85cJMneJvUNCXVCi45OQE.3xC6m18fDS51iVE221F9 S2_MnyhkE2FlA9ZtjLVEiDXzSDLMl9qLi6_tiJgARWR_jChgZ2caxiOz8wVC.fRdIyeI8wWolAHQ 3Wy01WtO1xzz.cY.vxnHg2lq4df3z5QOBkWT_gpV014RAN83w__VzkAaD3pdoT8dVgBoiVsaL19f R4Tq4NrAn0zhKIGo6rlqHiBKoOj9GEfhOiaBNswTmfDtTOmUqooysL.6NrtgMU5HEaye1jDftBWl xEnnh2g.du4RdZ9VvrthZMKmMMrsR_czTzZHIRlaJRMsGBlMJW3Z1OCGddgkLqchauutmh0xysuU bA49jIMUaEkp49757cOFUTOjLIXl4tfgkoRmuS9v_l78wytHqoT0MZLchOi6WSGMwitYx.4bHtky 3xAlIX54c25vSJC6uhCVSdYPy7b3bMzx.HbTxNFqEdp_WACkCFAVZ9_i8AYXjK.9hXvrUT5cMkDB 8QrGhrtNvwTBJzg5XY6TM_QELo08wG3Qgvbi5N7vcyl8U0HFWRm5HfHmuYxQ.zEeW6vCdB0OGtKq 0k9YaEyR4kNWWZMdkctLk9ZsD6pOWiZPnsetfctR3sHkuF9gK6.x6jXLqF5M1vdCoFf82Z2_P93U EIAXU4qQOsjW2FOV7PfJYcmWli99TBBmcHDfplZU2PXzJ05n5sTzPqKMbjAqqOHyG9Hgh8bQbxV2 .CZGDvyn30tw0pQaT40IIxfLleFoxyjfSkqidtWb8sc0flq0fdeeI5HhVB9mMc.MUoPN7fkJw8Vq wOwKWFqirweSzr.GWeCnl1zBiPHDKZgC3.uXLJ2xEQuJKBYDDwqWw_FwUygdH5avypI3zIALiH7m aFNq0rHAdBbpib1rZVT0A07BjNx74gL3QTOFVV_dybaFq_3SW65mX_PdDBXRPfbuywpAlE1CmuV. TrDIiJKFu9YTlFSh1.geO7A0kz_cJKx6xdol_E.KnWb8VFEUzSb5_QYJn_seaBuX7zWsxXokD5.o FcZZp33Aju8kfOsc0i5rHNVDEfYrXVqsltAGZY5FsGFe75HzjMFn09r_YE.Ngt1_SWaZEquhLnFS o6zGyj.XMTQkLFRLxMtN9AqcIH8AyBDSDNTGN6azTbQAWNbn4OJVNpsVuFEqXVyQib6g2.c.h51V te5JQbVQLfpA- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic307.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:47:01 +0000 Received: by smtp411.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 22fff23fcd28e3d2ad04fe2c5d49339c; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:47:01 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 22:47:01 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Back to the topic of the original thread: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528224701.7cc6f222@archlinux> In-Reply-To: References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528204832.7bf83e2b@archlinux> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y0B05PdFz48RH X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.81 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.954]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[87.248.110.31:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.41)[-0.409]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.962]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:87.248.110.0/24, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[87.248.110.31:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:47:06 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 14:53:36 -0400, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 2:48 PM Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions < >freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> wrote: > >> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxrVgYlUYAAp8eb.jpg > > > > >> >> SICR >> >> -- >> https://www.freebsd.org/internal/code-of-conduct.html > > >Saying something makes "you look an idiot" *IS NOT THE SAME* as saying >you are idiot... an other language translation problem I think. If >you think the first means the second then no wonder we are not >communicating. My interpretation of the picture is that not being a developer, IOW not being an expert, means to be a clueless women. And "clueless woman" is tautological. It's sexism. It's trivial to _program_ a digital video recorder to automatically record a television programme, but it's not trivial to translate data into _code_. In the end it's not that important for this thread, so back to the topic: Important is that UNIX alike operating systems have got a login shell that is useful for an admin, poweruser and even for the clueless user to customize the machine, to the user's (operator's) needs. So starting with writing scripts is essential, starting with learning how to maintain a port is grotesque. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scripter Using and customizing/optimizing a computer neither requires programmer nor coder skills. Most could be done by using existing software and writing shell scripts. Even a disgusting bad written shell script could do the wanted job. Scripts are portable. A newbie could start with FreeBSD and stay with FreeBSD or migrate to another UNIX alike operating system. Getting used to man(ual) pages is very useful. Learning how to use a terminal emulation is very useful. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 20:49:48 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CC272FDB01 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:49:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49Y0F729zTz48Y4 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:49:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.191.1]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2130D4E65A; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:49:41 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Polytropon Cc: Ralf Mardorf , FreeBSD Mailing List References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528210136.b1e8d772.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <392c242d-6cd0-d065-5dc5-b3c4d714e9ea@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 15:49:33 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200528210136.b1e8d772.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y0F729zTz48Y4 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.47 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[172.58.191.1:received]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.34)[-0.336]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.12)[0.120]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.58)[0.585]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[rocketmail.com,freebsd.org] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:49:48 -0000 On 5/28/20 2:01 PM, Polytropon wrote: > Consider: der Computer = der Rechner, but the calculator != > the computer. And for compound nouns: It just doesn't work to > dissect them, translate piece by piece, put them together again > and expect something understandable; for this specific reason > there's Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmützenhaltenagel- > einschlagwerkzeugverkaufsstellenleiterbefähigungsausweisinhaber, Oh, this is the good one! Doesn't compare with the longest word I remember from my high school Deutsch class: Monatsduchschnittstemperatur Yours really has another dimension! > or just use Java. ;-) > Oh, well, whereas long composed German words didn't bother me (and still do not), Java programs... well, I better keep this for myself. Another thing about German Language is that you really need to discipline yourself into listening till the very last word of the sentence... because that word may be the one that negates the whole statement. This probably promotes higher culture of communication, as instead of starting to say anything across another person to contradict, you may better wait, as he, it may appear at the end, makes the same point as you would ;-) Valeri ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 20:52:07 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7A762FDE02 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic301-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic301-22.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.99]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y0Hp651dz499B for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: Q9wwShIVM1mCyK9v35R6Y.OTDBc61Mrzz.KxrR5QANhzCUSvaG0_DK234vw4Oul egvPv2si6dpM6f.GlhMnkeD7bpmE1pLVyjR3rK6zbtWQ0EOOWlGs1ZO6mHkXHqXs68buS2Dud.vP LeZBx43Uf03YqexFWgjAPeIZvnHvwiUnCS9yiZmnLQKIwH5HU5I41mo3rSfNCFYvAaWo74uCvoP7 cTdzX4GU7UCioXGuleD6X6tWhTgzlwEZ19vl.a2SfACAf2OKzy_KqH2nVdmkm4bsG9veuFc61Na7 GC8MhoPh.o0gNgtw2vejfRlcA_XmWSU193UV4YS8qLM3znvJjKpycXV_bSdfEYY7LxaxU129Jnd. Oa3X2OIS0pKorb4u0kxZRkyoyeQu70gBVOkJnUa43k68YktdI8NRRN92bUV6jrzoLwE.4VXumEfQ CI0Gg97SmGdyEEdjNTYyb6CCp5yTq2t6CbtgjBRT.tcwWm1.as.0FAuynH4P8w7AsgZpbtn03be8 Z5Ech6sIBQJIw24jG.GFp_Gm_V6xfqiZglLvNfp8FZadY2DNbIpWUcNmC_9_Z3t9UHrrAovso9OU XF4MgKzNkAie8RUjLqst7OPQY6tyOeU.J6xzFhzc72wUfVA3HItIv0I0KCV01kJFmPVCaXdYzwAX tOxx7EcOW_fzQoBUdqvbnVwFBLPbCg8FT.KZnFsPO0LnXa9Q_Ri6.4G8VvRwKiWfhRDqb3h8vqoy cAxt7eseogPMeRwvWViOE1RPIYC8EmMbwROBuzrjAJjh_1qD6.rWvwlqwHHeI6Sb8vgSRiyGbd0i Iei5ouq.XG77Pt3sX9OjHeXCw4AQx0AaWrGUufugeJZC1ldVGoLmVCgjjQJo.xqhywh4CivjMOVQ SLOdQupWKOO78NjQI4BHw.qXTtqOM4_4lKDGlMC7bXXZ8WQ1Byf6t_RQdEBvxFXIk1.2sZv56Ryu 9U11rbTm9Cbu61X2vomIS5RKMCoGhHMTetba_HrLhbFLNn_Tl30n7MH3PkZoMYs6RJIeIGl7ystj V8dape9XoBRlZyroF_u67VEuhcOI9Qs1ub4jOznh2gFk7ZR_0gW.BlzXzVt3SIGTB0RQ1Er7kd__ 6AvyL6rGdFXKX0jfVtCmuCsdJvyM_hrSz6Y51n49j731N_jYD1TudicMfKews1TZCl8tAuD.suto QU8qB0stpvZ06Z8SXxYAeyw8QqUDKTnmmgsutO0TrTq0.ekvdtovdP4uAkcGj9kCpojzLbCjqtbw SdhGQvwbDsPjhxpNEcySCceGKFicNcHFiQMz70ZbnRu8GQWY1lvbQRh79EOAkMEynuB8JuoHsr0o pVf7QuXo4f3yx.i77YzDa_m59ljji8C1WWDOm39swsL4bhtOOSNldrylJ.Kym4AQZTJ5CfI0u8gJ Ns6gBJA-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:04 +0000 Received: by smtp405.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 45168a2f114caa8020a0b8e66b137bc0; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:02 +0000 (UTC) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 22:52:03 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-ID: <20200528225203.6425e3af@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20200528210136.b1e8d772.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528210136.b1e8d772.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y0Hp651dz499B X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.82 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.955]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rocketmail.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[77.238.176.99:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.41)[-0.411]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.96)[-0.961]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[77.238.176.99:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:07 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 21:01:36 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >I like "Autoeisen" and I will definitely find a use for it, >thank you. And of course, highway !=3D Hochbahn. https://www.dict.cc/?s=3Dhauptweg https://www.dict.cc/?s=3Dhauptstra=C3=9Fe https://www.dict.cc/?s=3Dschnellweg vomit =3D brechen together =3D zusammen collapse =3D zusammenbrechen From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 22:22:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C82E2FF56F for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 22:22:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y2Hb3WLRz4Hp0 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 22:22:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MaIvT-1jSd6M2bKP-00WEDr; Fri, 29 May 2020 00:21:55 +0200 Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 00:21:55 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Back to the topic of the original thread: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200529002155.774696fe.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200528224701.7cc6f222@archlinux> References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528204832.7bf83e2b@archlinux> <20200528224701.7cc6f222@archlinux> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:D8zcgtHG9IzhF1uBd7zj+pdJPBgmd2krkkauU1QMW1bm7KHwPH7 P4+4YaL+5/SEl+Fnt30E+QOKGnoVDw8Y45jmW66ybGSy0lu/N/jRK2j3yRSkM3lSXXCDxTl C6HsYNHblVnerN2ebflWoQa04cZb1Ob2SjRKyttxPfr3doT8FiZ7PpRma61AmAkN8mvb+xw lr1elgvuNwUVLlu3rbTZg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:xmCrFIFqw3U=:CTeWan5D67QOYJUAOM+G9n 8DXXAlPUHklVEtMU8mont1cJQ1xjdP1kgmWEz+j55AzUPvIO+FKzOQk/fbXyifAc8PVMZPs7P YUCoZljFuWkn25dyQxFLQ8+s35Gam62DVdYcJEYGl1uFAaOBQFoPAUZHTkptj9pIkLlT8jtYA vHdiLVA5qOAlP6i5mmC6yfZq39uj+MONd1p6bG/velGJNyzWEu/rwyDOG0d+ymSeMqbhrKaTC D4g0rzgSuxrC7S1dhM9v2VbgSN9rndxJpwivCMh3XdyhH1fqyInQv8vDE3JCve1c7i6mV00bO IU9Yz5Tj3fOkkGmhUhvCAAfdeSkmaR7Da98zcmQCA2xBj3mnUsJij3qJ+cYbdZIUWgJ3DJ2qk t24aUHA9AmUC9Iu302lO9L1uBmSW2b5+EuUslDorU7SnNX72gp6EWOw29zzxDXEXSai14umoN kC9JgFiSGZNvXqOxBJZtJooF6qk9PTz/OBcdA8b1hxuXDS3jHq0JCv1DM4ZLRfo4WgvLTsbhJ DwEvoMoxpp2nHpcstzzk26X8aysjHXDUKyn2D7XkFmIayL2KTxWIZH69GwO03KyvShp8TlrAG ZUdLbVNsuN4SXRO/NpH33qs10g0jsK/5j3ilmN8UBabWb9lBA4BmRWxI2WMnbpkVEuzL5XCkB TysaApGsU0N0vuWbaBVfrLjQiX24Pxmmoj1qWL05cmgRJmbU0MX9Nb8fN+ZSJWWWVGq6UvB3m Q8Vy9A4IMW07mpfwqJWyMrHwh2wQ4pnWLUxCGnYrx+KcqG4LxA2EdxvoeLCMCefhnY1/q0bZS /dCowhtebCkdfBRTi7QZL7d5L5brJCEcBMMxoiejcF9bF35w92nUJqTeVXxQ4fG+3DOQGoh X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y2Hb3WLRz4Hp0 X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.10) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.95 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.95.28:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.00)[-0.003]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.02)[0.022]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.53)[0.526]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 22:22:04 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020 22:47:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > It's trivial to _program_ a digital video recorder to automatically > record a television programme, [...] Yes, but only for _old_ people! :-) > [...] but it's not trivial to translate data > into _code_. It's not just data - it's concepts (of behaviour, of data, of calculations, of interactions, of data exchange, of communications, of hardware control, etc.). > In the end it's not that important for this thread, so > back to the topic: > > Important is that UNIX alike operating systems have got a login shell > that is useful for an admin, poweruser and even for the clueless user to > customize the machine, to the user's (operator's) needs. So starting > with writing scripts is essential, starting with learning how to > maintain a port is grotesque. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scripter Not neccessarily. Allow me to explain: The goal (!) to maintain a port will inevitably require a certain skillset. Being able to use a computer running FreeBSD, using the shell, dealing with shell scripts, and probably learning to use the tools involed in the ports infrastructure is _needed_ to maintain a port. So while "maintaining a port" can be seen as a distant goal, it can be a valid goal to learn the fundamental knowledge and gain the required experience to become a valuable port maintainer. Of course it technically doesn't start with "the port"; it starts with the basics. > Using and customizing/optimizing a computer neither requires programmer > nor coder skills. Most could be done by using existing software and > writing shell scripts. Even a disgusting bad written shell script could > do the wanted job. I know that, I have _one_ (in numbers: 1) written in C shell. :-) > Scripts are portable. They _should_ be. > Getting used to man(ual) pages is very useful. Definitely. Commands like "man" and "apropos" are essential to acquire basic knowledge, but as you correctly pointed out, "using" man pages is more than reading: they have a specific format, and they present information in a certain way one needs to get used to; they are not a HOWTO or a README or DOMYHOMEWORK. :-) > Learning how to use a terminal emulation is very useful. Plus, discovering different editors, choosing, and mastering at least one editor is useful. It doesn't matter which editor it is. I would also say that there are certain tools that can be helpful, like the Midnight Commander for file management, rsync or cpdup for data exchange, of course archivers and compressors, and maybe even all the small things that usually make it into scripts, like sed, awk, cut, paste, wc, tr, and other little "moving parts" that help in automating things. I wouldn't say you're lost as a port maintainer if you don't know those tools, but depending on _what_ exactly you need to do, they can be a great advantage. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 23:18:21 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5666432891B for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12olkn2050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.22.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y3XX1lZfz4MYn for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=kqG0XrAoAKXIm4p92qmBXTXUlqhWe7WbdMqHbCcfZ/w0IinSpDJE001geuABvBLfP+cOFvb1mLQ61rNN9qhdOql9rNIeizO9HdcypKNkTfE2RB+Gm0NHdRr3DfeZaJH2WxDRlSYDU2+Qk+dC4v0Wt5I0+EUljjxkGVmoJggYl539xXZpCMu052O+VKEwUWDn/z3z/wPzHJkGCF77XhVTV2ZrsYwXQ1QoClQOHIhqpfYasuhVDbEEQGwRSHM170Prcl8A3+0F2KFUMcqnkwKMHAwWq4SZI0xxlt0bSYZfP/5E4hqZOOJqMlV1xbloaQ4VdxBQD5BQYFOmenWfmA1iZQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:18 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc65::4d) by MW2NAM12FT025.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc65::92) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.8 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:18 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d]) by CY4PR19MB1655.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::387e:fe14:f955:101d%12]) with mapi id 15.20.3045.018; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:18 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Mounting DVD image Thread-Topic: Mounting DVD image Thread-Index: AQHWNUXcZEdyQexM5EuUEjAy9XZTcg== Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:18 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:6CB1E1DCCFCAED58E1B537128D9447CA801D818F445D3CF65CD0B14878FBB828; UpperCasedChecksum:8754377C092E470C907EE9ABC207EF2BB7702010A3EE113ABA51920214DBE6C7; 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FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:18:21 -0000 I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the handbook i= t says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD into disc drive= I don't know how to show the DVD title in my filesystem and find it's name= in order to finish mount. I know it's somewhere in the handbook but I'm no= t sure where. Sent from Outlook Mobile From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 23:39:57 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0D7328F81 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:39:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x141.google.com (mail-il1-x141.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::141]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y41S6c5mz4Nry for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:39:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x141.google.com with SMTP id t8so209706ilm.7 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:39:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 28 May 2020 16:39:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20200527203627.2c9faae5@archlinux> <21722039-a01f-37d3-e035-6be2950485e2@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528022232.662100a3@archlinux> <0e7aa839-eecf-37f7-4498-4ecc73f44689@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200528164705.278f3983.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200528162637.73917881c2c395f80a5384fc@sohara.org> <20200528170047.d55ed6402f71c9b2558c78bc@sohara.org> <20200528193512.7fcf9192@archlinux> <20200528204832.7bf83e2b@archlinux> <20200528224701.7cc6f222@archlinux> <20200529002155.774696fe.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200529002155.774696fe.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:39:44 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Back to the topic of the original thread: FreeBSD Cert To: Polytropon Cc: Ralf Mardorf , Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y41S6c5mz4Nry X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=gJrWp0vw; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::141 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.17 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.020]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.986]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::141:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.16)[-0.161]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[rocketmail.com,freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:39:57 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 6:22 PM Polytropon wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2020 22:47:01 +0200, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions > wrote: > > It's trivial to _program_ a digital video recorder to automatically > > record a television programme, [...] > > Yes, but only for _old_ people! :-) > I wonder? I have no problem debugging a compiler or writing a full web app (including the HTTP server) but I have never figured out how to program my DVR (VCR in the old days) to anything except stop flashing 12:00 (and I am one of the pioneers of streaming media ;-)) > > > > [...] but it's not trivial to translate data > > into _code_. > > It's not just data - it's concepts (of behaviour, of data, of > calculations, of interactions, of data exchange, of communications, > of hardware control, etc.). > > That is just the tip of the iceberg. You start with what problem (or even if there is a problem) to solve, this involves getting good solid answers to the five journalistic questions for the current process/system, the ideal one the end-users really want (not the one they will get) as well as the quick and dirty solution and the "done right solution". Note here that many times the best solutions don't even involve a computer (they just are nothing more then refactoring the current manual process and leaving it manual). Of the solutions that do involve using a computer the ones that involve writing any code (including scripts) at all are almost always the last option you should consider on how to solve the problem. Coding is slow, tedious and very error prone even in the hands of the most seasoned developers. The reason for this is what I (and as far I know only me) consider to be the there laws of software engineering: 1. Bugs are a fact of life, get used to it! (The goal of software engineering is to not get rid of them but make catching and fixing them easier) 2. Anyone who claims to fully understand software engineering, computing or computer science (or any major subarea of them) is full of crap (non-PC version full of ) 3. There are no laws to software engineering only recommendations based on very costly (personally and organizationally) F'ups from thinking law 2 doesn't apply to the recommender and/or their organization. All such recommendations make no sense outside of the (narrow) context they are made from. Corollary 1: There are no silver bullets, white knights and Merlin is a myth! Corollary 2: If the recommendation doesn't include references to "Alice in Wonderland" the recommender didn't pay a high enough cost to gain any real wisdom. All this needs to be done before deciding to write any code and then comes the easy part (writing/debugging the code if there is any at all). But before we write any code we need to make decisions about what tools/languages to use, what is the over all system architecture, what should the I/O look like in detail, what algorithms/data structures to use (pick the right algorithm and the data structure will pick it self, pick the right data structure and the algorithm will write it self, pick either one wrong and you will be jealous of how easy Alice had it in Wonderland!), decide on the quality/reliability requirements (including what automated tests to make to make sure once it works it stays working), make sure your design is portable and maintainable, etc. Finally we can start writing some code but where to start? Should we do the riskiest part first or the easiest part, should we do the UI first or the guts, etc.? How can I make sure my code is actually testable, etc. Do I use library classes/methods or do I do roll my own? Etc. Now I get to write the fun and easy part: for(int i=0;i<10;i++) print i; Of course real code is more complex then this ;-) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu May 28 23:45:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AB2D328F45 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:45:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd32.google.com (mail-io1-xd32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y47N1Ygcz4PJk for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 23:45:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd32.google.com with SMTP id h10so396279iob.10 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:45:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=DmW0RjygmX8H4G8HIC+v23qgaf40Ei46eii6XjlWxX4=; b=erq3J/Mmdz1DL2l2dQsNhyoniGPaWnqw6sn4sFWj1XVgycu0LNqvFrccAVml316O8u EA83J2mXrt3xKirA4eD6p6HSnBnCWHEJQhTtl22CiNTz0tmRHH15kBETyCP+bPvGFhDO EJeU4FOgFctSEl2yYSINzqM9Ganit93+5txo3uyWlUv0iy0xjlLcdBwfkfykK/zHSW8l XXuFydpoVlgTAIx40t/R+ProIYtfLuHH/ZskCENx1fkdn/1f5KjPluowgMY7Gnf1jMJr WFyOUT6DKmUQY6/GtlYv+86agERLhBRGZKnegQfp0flV1fTJoghUZBGW+GcktotxXDXa B7Iw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=DmW0RjygmX8H4G8HIC+v23qgaf40Ei46eii6XjlWxX4=; b=SPjOkqVUUG82BRLDdYQ0SbcfhwVd48B/dyjuyRBB40BCFN/zZK03IeT2qw2BIZEIqS JsvSFMtb6N7Vq3cPUOBHUKFN4Mql/kqHCVcTRLYL+qY9pvh9RoERFJQKRqIXzT3BFGBS R6a46CAWvKUDhUvIIskqd1QHduQGqVS09KZTITwgdzVqFLXrfcTNPBNypTb46IBGE5xw Dn814D+HWwuoxWgDtAznRRvm1XZwHLmFO81hor0CXNdsiYRNxaM8sIfX3iS/wKuyvOIs VbTkHTqCFnKZmsWz6C9oQbtNTdNM4p491XirEz39k8FGQAczj7suLoPgSgm5CjflIqyW h3lQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5319d0/N4nTeYGKN9n+Wzhw/fW6jUy6FdEoYU2QBiv6+Bl31PhTb YUyHvfFj2zitM39NnHYjb1rOQGgioe0pfpbB6Iw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyWJa+f8RdwBuANzXeX1adOjYzRm4Hf/jfTeRbxzKhL3CofaCDLftkI/eqPkzlgPibyavrnI+XA1V5KLaxhNkA= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:bc85:: with SMTP id m127mr4332223iof.89.1590709503099; Thu, 28 May 2020 16:45:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 19:44:51 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image To: Brandon helsley Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y47N1Ygcz4PJk X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=erq3J/Mm; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.35 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.33)[-0.331]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.025]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d32:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 23:45:05 -0000 On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 7:18 PM Brandon helsley wrote: > I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the handbook > it says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD into disc > drive I don't know how to show the DVD title in my filesystem and find it's > name in order to finish mount. I know it's somewhere in the handbook but > I'm not sure where. > Where it is depends on your motherboard and BIOS. Best thing to do is a ls of /dev note what devices are there and what each one does (that way you what to look for when you insert the DVD). Insert the DVD and then look at a new copy of the ls and see what has changed and is it one the devices that corrisbonds to the DVD (on most modern motherboards it would be adaX or daX) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 00:11:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F983329C9E for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 00:11:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from mail.monochrome.org (static-71-163-255-121.washdc.fios.verizon.net [71.163.255.121]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail", Issuer "mail" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y4jv0rTYz4RgL for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 00:11:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Received: from tripel.monochrome.org (tripel.monochrome.org [192.168.1.11]) by mail.monochrome.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04T0BNc4071702; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:11:24 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from chris@monochrome.org) Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:11:23 -0400 (EDT) From: Chris Hill To: Brandon helsley cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y4jv0rTYz4RgL X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of chris@monochrome.org has no SPF policy when checking 71.163.255.121) smtp.mailfrom=chris@monochrome.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.66 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.46)[-0.465]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.33)[0.333]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.10)[-0.103]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[monochrome.org]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:701, ipnet:71.163.0.0/16, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 00:11:32 -0000 On Thu, 28 May 2020, Brandon helsley wrote: > I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the > handbook it says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD > into disc drive I don't know how to show the DVD title in my > filesystem and find it's name in order to finish mount. I know it's > somewhere in the handbook but I'm not sure where. That mdconfig command allows you to mount the .iso disc image file as if it were a disk. But it sounds like you have burned an actual physical DVD, which is a different situation. If you're trying to install FreeBSD onto this machine, the procedure would be to boot from that DVD and follow the prompts. If there's anything on this machine you want to keep, back it up first :^) -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 00:13:29 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23B39329DDF for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 00:13:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM02-CY1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092004061.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.4.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y4m81zVzz4SLb for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 00:13:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; 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FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 00:13:29 -0000 I'm trying to boot bhyve from DVD instead of FTP Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Chris Hill Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 6:11:23 PM To: Brandon helsley Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image On Thu, 28 May 2020, Brandon helsley wrote: > I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the > handbook it says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD > into disc drive I don't know how to show the DVD title in my > filesystem and find it's name in order to finish mount. I know it's > somewhere in the handbook but I'm not sure where. That mdconfig command allows you to mount the .iso disc image file as if it were a disk. But it sounds like you have burned an actual physical DVD, which is a different situation. If you're trying to install FreeBSD onto this machine, the procedure would be to boot from that DVD and follow the prompts. If there's anything on this machine you want to keep, back it up first :^) -- Chris Hill chris@monochrome.org From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 01:52:28 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ADAE032BDEE for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 01:52:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y6yM4spyz4Zwd for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 01:52:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from clay.daniels.jr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id l15so581782lje.9 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:52:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=cO0D9vH/0LgRFytPNN1hymLLHCvZMyqxm0D3CiTmwbk=; b=fBbpvR+1ih4Me1ErYfUbO91nDs6KkgxKomLYvCAh7YRHTGDrxewtaxR/bzGYgK1WxK Yzq94f+ifAeVbS47xQxE/mjlL0eS+9YKqUa0Oxqt8THnddVZOjeZrJp5ag4JzBrRXfjv 4QCDegPj2pgoGJMAndTZdAEtMaA/gFpjbXjOz60l130smqDXqeHU4wqlP0M1vz2VZeLW GoZGxeBhAzZzo6/ul52ruBlwLs29aRMnCxMstN85h3JCJUo5qleH7wHBke0e8h+ake5q zrPUXi2nxjc0eBfPN90U9/CL6EDCRwh2otF8GihRltZaZJ8AFcpxNwO40OoXnLpW5shd GUWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=cO0D9vH/0LgRFytPNN1hymLLHCvZMyqxm0D3CiTmwbk=; b=NfLGZmdENo7xGBHhsPhEdIL1o+KeJOBf6FmmCgp0XL+ntXq7NpBprnc8wCCPkOh5N6 G3PprCGig/qUkQgx4I7vkQDbeYwPiyg6/gtPrViu8wb1pNVH7VKlXRMdU2oDBfgYsbHq 2WPOChUYnyEwUCB9CIQvRRh3fj+uIEx0esewkm1N4PFRzNU7a3gpkec2xsTgD2pNBGCW cUl50lmQI5z/9Wh/0do99n1pCbzM2Pn82ciRVsrx36x1tZF53poesUg5igLDkCpLb3WG 8EEiaNIcEW5Vikjjj2Fg4NN3A8xu7dzpCPxNbZEZZt77eHKfU6LLxWXicpoIQUKmut4p GXYw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530O3wgbdMq1A4yRGeNOYKhYN4y805m7lkEm7qXJilhGmY0vd2ug Gu7RjJsui7nU/7v6uRnzpLNT81HzJLSz0uHrPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwMcwGDm2BJsTnwzYvx+Dt8Kko7Gh31T1/0pA35xJDN8d3j7wI55oK1oiM39M/cKHpmWSTsm8gTKuS7rRc3S3k= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:964a:: with SMTP id z10mr2758630ljh.387.1590717145733; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:52:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Clay Daniels Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:52:14 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image To: Brandon helsley Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y6yM4spyz4Zwd X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=fBbpvR+1; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of claydanielsjr@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=claydanielsjr@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.19 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.18)[-1.176]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.024]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.989]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::22c:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 01:52:28 -0000 Try putting the dvd in the optical drive, reboot, and see if you can't catch it as bootable with your bios. On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 6:18 PM Brandon helsley wrote: > I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the handbook > it says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD into disc > drive I don't know how to show the DVD title in my filesystem and find it's > name in order to finish mount. I know it's somewhere in the handbook but > I'm not sure where. > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 02:44:47 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BE4D32D125 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 02:44:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from nightmare.dreamchaser.org (ns.dreamchaser.org [66.109.141.57]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "dreamchaser.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Y86j61PGz3TpN for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 02:44:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) Received: from breakaway.dreamchaser.org (breakaway [192.168.151.122]) by nightmare.dreamchaser.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id 04T2icZP098544 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 20:44:38 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from freebsd@dreamchaser.org) To: FreeBSD Mailing List Reply-To: freebsd@dreamchaser.org From: Gary Aitken Subject: Arduino -- no com ports showing Message-ID: <402a5d2a-eda4-f7cb-4aeb-db7202ccea8f@dreamchaser.org> Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 20:42:49 -0600 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (nightmare.dreamchaser.org [192.168.151.101]); Thu, 28 May 2020 20:44:38 -0600 (MDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Y86j61PGz3TpN X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@dreamchaser.org designates 66.109.141.57 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@dreamchaser.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.90 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@dreamchaser.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.15)[-0.153]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.61)[-0.609]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dreamchaser.org]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.16)[0.159]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:21947, ipnet:66.109.128.0/19, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 02:44:47 -0000 I just installed the arduino package on an 11.3-RELEASE system. When it comes up, the Tools/Serial Port menu item is greyed out, apparently because it doesn't know USB ports serve as com ports, or for some reason it can't find them. Does anyone know what the way around this is? Thanks for any insights, Gary From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 07:52:30 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15DB7332635 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-BN8-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn8nam12olkn2048.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.21.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YGxm6zCyz4G3J for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Pr/Nl0UwEY8+BJ6fQYJF6zjlt0F+Ln4N0JsLCkslCFHZPh9gAsdYIDNfp1csPNJOUYf7poeRoM9S20lngn/HY1jq1vkEWCNBS1NE+vCzb6uMnyNi7tly7z5bzAkcMwMLiXcXN240PT7cd90/MGOmXL/iVzWyPpII2tIxW2tG5+HsS+3F/+FRb/lKZf0RGVhUNn5NCG3oxek9VgEERy3oxi1oXg77sARysSLNFm5ozZik6AgeZJcsf3p2AhfJVRXK5GJ0I3/Lj2yNEBIYrFPL6bWSSMZJagtc3yg65ZAellpHnkwYlpCO7/OU/y/l3YE8dHJqIDuaQI+UGZXheCBWzQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:27 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc66::4c) by BN8NAM12FT066.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc66::317) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.8 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:27 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3045.018; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:27 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Clay Daniels CC: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image Thread-Topic: Mounting DVD image Thread-Index: AQHWNUXcZEdyQexM5EuUEjAy9XZTcqi+TQAAgABkkow= Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:1D8C5D4322DA284765FCA135018B531EDCEEF1956D330AAB21E294DBEAE8976D; 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TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.21.48:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.21.48:from] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 07:52:30 -0000 I'll check it out. What's optical drive? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Clay Daniels Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2020 7:52:14 PM To: Brandon helsley Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mounting DVD image Try putting the dvd in the optical drive, reboot, and see if you can't catc= h it as bootable with your bios. On Thu, May 28, 2020 at 6:18 PM Brandon helsley > wrote: I'm attempting to attach a DVD with freebsd iso on it and in the handbook i= t says to use mdconfig and then mount but when I insert DVD into disc drive= I don't know how to show the DVD title in my filesystem and find it's name= in order to finish mount. I know it's somewhere in the handbook but I'm no= t sure where. Sent from Outlook Mobile _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing= list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 09:09:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8857A3337D0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 09:09:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bourne.identity@hotmail.com) Received: from EUR04-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-he1eur04olkn0824.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe0d::824]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YJfK0qTpz4M9t for ; 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On 2020-05-29 13:22, Brandon helsley wrote: > I'll check it out. What's optical drive? > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 12:11:59 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3572E337A15 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49YNjC07Kzz4cP3 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 0467F3377C1; Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:59 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 042D5337A14 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) Received: from smtp.rcn.com (smtp.rcn.com [69.168.97.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YNj94XlLz4cfm for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roberthuff@rcn.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; d=rcn.com; s=20180516; c=relaxed/simple; q=dns/txt; i=@rcn.com; t=1590754316; h=From:Subject:Date:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; bh=3XrViqNSETO1VMNrSyONpbHIk+Y=; b=iqKY1MPuYJtvzpmx5JJaedz9cN2xKT4lnZ++p8cgFXTNBxHDR1fgEY/AbzuYVNMO 1E5Tp25UCoes8Eg5Q1SRzhWYvZUwtlo09f/JBvM+XORH4mef/jgEkvwwlTrBuM72 HE4Lqko0DVAPG1T8RN0DisVYz9mpiAyvjhDSZUXfKIm9OlaYZgEc9YskJFm32Idm 6ONRvpK+fl2Tk+X+/oTVF4N3J3BY+s44xkFF8f39JYvt/2iwYYcZ2YrHcRSJk5Z1 N3btHqEDEn+dn8ve9hpr3FYG/K995dA2xKToDV8zTLwq8dJK5hhq1QgZekljo8HX LTmzhSTNS9nUjJq5/3mn7Q==; X_CMAE_Category: , , X-CNFS-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=J+PUEzvS c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:117 a=9TgA2UwI6Wy+6BV4wQM/cQ==:17 a=KGjhK52YXX0A:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=XRQyMpdBKAEA:10 a=sTwFKg_x9MkA:10 a=48faUk6PgeAA:10 a=H7UMM7RcjXoKK4I_6b0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-CM-Score: 0 X-Scanned-by: Cloudmark Authority Engine X-Authed-Username: cm9iZXJ0aHVmZkByY24uY29t Received: from [209.6.230.48] ([209.6.230.48:33760] helo=jerusalem.litteratus.org.litteratus.org) by smtp.rcn.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 3.6.25.56547 r(Core:3.6.25.0)) with ESMTPSA (cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384) id AA/C2-42436-C0CF0DE5; Fri, 29 May 2020 08:11:56 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <24272.64523.937240.15570@jerusalem.litteratus.org> Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 08:11:55 -0400 From: Robert Huff To: questions@freebsd.org Subject: more subversion In-Reply-To: <202005290401.04T410AB043239@jerusalem.litteratus.org> References: <202005290401.04T410AB043239@jerusalem.litteratus.org> X-Mailer: VM 8.2.0b under 26.3 (amd64-portbld-freebsd13.0) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49YNj94XlLz4cfm X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=rcn.com header.s=20180516 header.b=iqKY1MPu; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=rcn.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of roberthuff@rcn.com designates 69.168.97.78 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=roberthuff@rcn.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.20 / 15.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[rcn.com:s=20180516]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.970]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:69.168.97.0/24]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.964]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[rcn.com:dkim]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rcn.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[rcn.com,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.16)[-0.165]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[69.168.97.78:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36271, ipnet:69.168.97.0/24, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[69.168.97.78:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 12:11:59 -0000 On one of my systems, running: FreeBSD 13.0-CURRENT #0 r354131: Mon Oct 28 17:27:33 EDT 2019 amd64 the src, ports, and doc code bases are updated overnight. This has worked without problem for years ... ... until about ten days ago when I started getting: Updating src ... svn: E200033: Another process is blocking the working copy database, or the underlying filesystem does not support file locking; if the working copy is on a network filesystem, make sure file locking has been enabled on the file server svn: E200033: sqlite[S5]: database is locked svn: E200042: Additional errors: svn: E200033: sqlite[S5]: database is locked svn: E155004: Run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) svn: E155004: Working copy '/usr/src' locked. svn: E155004: '/usr/src' is already locked. .. done. Updating ports ... svn: E155004: Run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) svn: E155004: Working copy '/usr/ports' locked. svn: E155004: '/usr/ports' is already locked. .. done. Updating docs ... Updating '.': Skipped 'it_IT.ISO8859-15/articles' -- Node remains in conflict The filesystem is UFS2, entirely local. So I cd to each {src, ports, doc}; run "svn cleanup" as directed and am told it worked: root@jerusalem> cd /usr/src root@jerusalem> svn cleanup root@jerusalem> and yet the next day ... it's ba-a-a-a-a-a-ck! Obviously not the subversion guru. What's wrong? And how do I fix it? (Fixing now; recriminations - if necessary - later.) Respectfully, Robert Huff From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri May 29 14:10:05 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE158339AFD for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 14:10:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lobo@bsd.com.br) Received: from mail-il1-x134.google.com (mail-il1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YRKS1ts0z3Xwm for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 14:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lobo@bsd.com.br) Received: by mail-il1-x134.google.com with SMTP id y17so2608054ilg.0 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:10:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1sTc0MHUkk1U/XCjTA+qgLz1V66KkH5W766AKRfQbd4=; b=Y7KoSOsqThrVdgq2decyISWVwMUCfi8XkkjnkgILMjnFmOwu+tT4ciQITG8S2sTCfD 1Yj0bESdzFXSvvEwSThH80ldvEQF78zdcUnxe8Ma4hvtuhhQXvdBG+MlLJwnn70naYD6 BjOdzynFTMttcYa60K4VpPnHcBsF9wpJ3L/Ik= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1sTc0MHUkk1U/XCjTA+qgLz1V66KkH5W766AKRfQbd4=; b=BlDxQ8QTUQlmaL/fkolGGNmxBuizSnCYnIaYTfFNvz1zuiRKkDsXqLAZQftFENoMh2 xaIq1Y5e/sb7kiZ7C5YeIlAHsr1CdYARSCw2QkWWQt23QJoITRi0+t+9/6fuxYQTyWsQ 0JWI+CmuWQEeJx9TF48GtPtxsi5Rkuc3qa6Z12LI5VZsjwPx1ATqDzsDbKVTTj+QvD/m frI+FslhfcwwNcJmenXLtA8L7rqdY0TVjcWlXCfg0MTa1TMtXpw0ileBsT4AIsUefWeX 3YgLiWUV3viIsdRIpBkWu00CtcgmfYooRNgHSw+FjjAiklTJIPCq3/FnlJGcXt9KT0sV QePQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531fE1/mxG6PS5SKj0/HjRBxomPOfUmJGXRsCd7ZE8S70yXhJwEw zq63HTKW6qnU4+OnK+RkFOkxL2TeGVxQPEn5LmQfA483E34= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyX9k7r8qVoOIqba2qDGaYZA8Zk9tSnE2kEA039RixLlRh6flkCpHJUdcc6w2rjjht/h3v3Xr+Z4H9SBE7ax0M= X-Received: by 2002:a92:9e51:: with SMTP id q78mr4786143ili.128.1590761402352; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:10:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Mario Lobo Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 11:09:51 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Sound problems. To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49YRKS1ts0z3Xwm X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsd.com.br header.s=capeta header.b=Y7KoSOsq; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lobo@bsd.com.br designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::134 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lobo@bsd.com.br X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.51 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.90)[-0.900]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsd.com.br:s=capeta]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsd.com.br]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsd.com.br:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.12)[-0.120]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::134:from]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 14:10:05 -0000 Hi; FreeBSD 13-CURRENT I have the following: Installed devices: pcm0: (play) pcm1: (play) pcm2: (play/rec) default pcm3: (play/rec) pcm4: (play) pcm5: (play) pcm6: (rec) hw.snd.default_unit: 2 Which yields this: mixer Mixer vol is currently set to 84:84 Mixer pcm is currently set to 100:100 Mixer speaker is currently set to 74:74 Mixer line is currently set to 1:1 Mixer mic is currently set to 83:83 Mixer mix is currently set to 54:54 Mixer rec is currently set to 96:96 Mixer igain is currently set to 47:47 Mixer ogain is currently set to 62:62 Recording source: mic The realtek mic doesn't work. I tried everything I could. The microphone sound goes out to the speakers, apps (firefox) detect a mic but its input doesn't go back into the system. So I wanted to switch the recording source pcm6, so: sysctl hw.snd.default_unit=6 which yields this: mixer Mixer mic is currently set to 95:95 i.e., I won't be able to hear a damn thing, and applications won't detect a mic. The web cam/realtek combination works perfectly on Linux/Windows. Any advice (besides "use Linux/Windows") on how to fix this? -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!] From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 04:17:08 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31D62FCAB7 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 04:17:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au [203.41.22.115]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2560 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au", Issuer "Heuristic Systems Type 4 Host CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Yp6q5lKbz46M6 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 04:17:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) Received: from [10.0.5.3] (noddy.hs [10.0.5.3]) (authenticated bits=0) by hermes.heuristicsystems.com.au (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id 04U4FkbQ095276 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sat, 30 May 2020 14:15:47 +1000 (AEST) (envelope-from dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=heuristicsystems.com.au; s=hsa; t=1590812147; x=1591416948; bh=YKiVTcMX3yFc0WD+6Wz86z75k7zyYML/+u4BCf4SbX0=; h=Subject:To:From:Message-ID:Date; b=YFiamkKHaC7dJQzftxKOo0r1Ge+h7w3qRa16qOm5+0/EC9hXP1bF3JgWehT92QQBz cak/4Gy4k+HTVCOoQd4XdeomudNXqlFHJcCMkDdwOG4ozQERTweE1g5VTg6HqZKCq4 KN8FebZ8iMEwx9AorP1XaGAM1xriBik1TA28nlJs2ynOQ32lRWnyj X-Authentication-Warning: b3.hs: Host noddy.hs [10.0.5.3] claimed to be [10.0.5.3] Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: Brandon helsley , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" References: From: Dewayne Geraghty Autocrypt: addr=dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQFNBFbOsVMBCgDfvi2PspSwoMEtFhF+aFLQKtzSA9f0dhDqthKHESdfbqxvKzhkBjvTJ5Na EgjKoKfoQTh5xuIv3HLhtDo5PeasPgQl9cPJeriqmqlS+UhY5BGYcMc1AO/TX0fsDaQz96ko at3RUW7sff/qPgVzSurk+DV5h866gPdn5Jdjohyl2F1rzRl6dnaAIyg49zlwZOnPHJGKye+B meqUCnPRglhkpNqXR3v1ulbWpfwhdNDvWT82qTG/qsFy/agjJvxwLuEBeoGc1dPWasO8Nztt 0dqf1Lpeg6SX2yJd76WVS4znt88OEbx/QL2PTJ/YtSepS68WaeKuARKPukkU+QXDep0gaLPl /TvU5xAZndNB3rYnpmoLb32pDHlrJbZUVyTMqc3J2EYM6aaizCpg4VEvVpVSqUT4D9MuREhu PeZ3SvEazQARAQABiQF3BB8BCAAhBQJWzrFTFwyAAWHe5yZt8RJL0vaU1MfDto5dBmeFAgcA AAoJEJVk7a1LmFrdy2QJ/AysDdFIMCRiaqEellprZQyEz5I/qZJEi6yRfXH813hhISFz6moh urZYLQ9SRdyMntT8W3Oc4pJc9fF9RSnY0SSQY/arZbrvsv6hKb1KtIK7P5mLS914J9buxEcJ SWeVuOuMA9aCNqg5uMu19pH5pXayORfbv+K7vFPiyllZ64ShUWZJL69vAc/TsbvMrGtG1M4P qyWCOKEiUT93zhVGQoA0aUYjMAZoyvozZCuieo4O8hkPgMz9lka+3bqQBSOB+qO4Iz+CZs0k Lw7Soga6bRqLK86DH99WjTA6Oj1r8Won+j4V9fnTDCVJoSyqdVHLySDv/lHaNu4Ia4AO4i2d shmLw03gOUvoWLJx5X01A5Zio4FvecnpZqQ0Wz5Ph9MiK3lwarfjonTOLeNGd5BpdnHu5VRC fJml7uAYeyKsD8C4tEBEZXdheW5lIEdlcmFnaHR5IDxkZXdheW5lLmdlcmFnaHR5QGNvbnNj aXVtaW50ZXJuYXRpb25hbC5jb20uYXU+iQGXBBMBCABBAhshCwsKDQkIDAcLAwIECBUKCQgL AwIBBRYDAgEAAh4BAheAFiEEC8bIxjMx+sDl4ZCClWTtrUuYWt0FAl5UUOgACgkQlWTtrUuY Wt3xZAn/W/mq5nDhLIfqxVM9GbU8rGzNsGLfnt5NCVcWlBKhgxOOw9EWkcRTMymwX9OMqwxI +te6Gvy7rG53T2xprtsQyqESZmjWcUSEPsQ9hjw4VZCL15ftBeZMYyO2T1e41UImXAlftleT 2kXCktgyAfwfCzHhFiZM8k9QMFQV1x+JukJ9xPFBgICRLsLsVNVw/R1L7KqARuws4HqXxY1J SCpO+FB4b6tWSIRKbzlb6tctdKppKbG/adVYuoK61ngvmsAzy/9OLhF8u1MNCgyFd2woOErh /zyuap8KvJZMlwAIqpjsoHyXsa0cq8A/uNQSmodwBpRsEGXCmZIZq2FJw6N+38to8C8m97q0 YWrY63VsoA6hA4A4/ywzE3EiwGvqJQBMRv2ET3TIdTyLoEIwXq2bDPU7XTZGh5UZEsKFMHH5 228= Message-ID: <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 14:15:14 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49Yp6q5lKbz46M6 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=fail (headers rsa verify failed) header.d=heuristicsystems.com.au header.s=hsa header.b=YFiamkKH; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au designates 203.41.22.115 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dewayne@heuristicsystems.com.au X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.43 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_REJECT(1.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:s=hsa]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-0.996]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[heuristicsystems.com.au:-]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED(-0.20)[203.41.22.115:from]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.84)[-0.841]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.09)[-0.088]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:1221, ipnet:203.40.0.0/13, country:AU]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 04:17:08 -0000 I think that this is what you were referring to, http://www.bsdcertification.org/certification/certification/bsd-professional.html The Professional certificate outline at http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/bsdp-jta-report.pdf and the Associate objectives http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/pr-20051005-certreq-bsda-en-en.pdf Unfortunately the website hasn't been updated since 2017, my guess is energy was directed into IX Systems? On 27/05/2020 6:43 pm, Brandon helsley wrote: > Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 06:51:22 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8004E2FF674 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 06:51:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092003097.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.3.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YsXm5YGnz4Jmq for ; 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Sat, 30 May 2020 06:51:18 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3045.018; Sat, 30 May 2020 06:51:18 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" , Dewayne Geraghty Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqjACc8AgAAq5NQ= Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 06:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: References: , <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> In-Reply-To: <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:0DD41C2298B362BECF4017776BB5F1681D2D1F1912C5DDA3075008E60142BCC2; UpperCasedChecksum:8FF048B1274A357AACDFCD74A5B639ED815EC42FBF4C8AA85CC557DDAA88ACAF; SizeAsReceived:7003; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [gaiDhqM5oA9XFtmv19sgRSyG7QIMN6aY] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: ef379b85-a80e-4788-2778-08d80465db2f x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SN1NAM02HT186: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=RL7LdhkB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.3.97 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.67 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.012]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.010]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.3.97:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.65)[-1.645]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.3.97:from] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 06:51:22 -0000 Yes but on LPI it looks like their training programs are all Linux. I'm rea= lly trying to get a foot hold and be comfortable with freebsd so I can use = it in the future for personal use and hopefully professionally.what is ixsy= stems? Is this a good resource for learning? I'm planning on buying all of = Michael lucas's books but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Dewayne Geraghty Sent: Friday, May 29, 2020 10:15:14 PM To: Brandon helsley ; freebsd-questions@freebs= d.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert I think that this is what you were referring to, http://www.bsdcertification.org/certification/certification/bsd-professiona= l.html The Professional certificate outline at http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/bsdp-jta-report.pdf and the Associate objectives http://www.bsdcertification.org/downloads/pr-20051005-certreq-bsda-en-en.pd= f Unfortunately the website hasn't been updated since 2017, my guess is energy was directed into IX Systems? On 27/05/2020 6:43 pm, Brandon helsley wrote: > Do they still have freebsd courses and certifications? > > Sent from Outlook Mobile > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.o= rg" > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 07:55:41 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF12F3290B0 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 07:55:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM10-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam10olkn2059.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.41.59]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Ytz0077Kz4Phl for ; 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FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.41.59:from] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 07:55:41 -0000 I found a problem earlier this week with how the sysctl and kernel modules = has to be added into the sysctl loader.conf and boot loader.conf for bhyve = to boot past a missing boot/entropy. Could someone explain to me how to wri= te a problem Report so I can gain The experience and get involved with port= s? Sent from Outlook Mobile From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 08:13:09 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8EB0329BC3 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:13:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic313-10.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YvM850F5z4RLJ for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:13:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: GR4YkWwVM1kLh0aFbty1ya6rpCOkvmKAQKJyZmeGlXYjatmDV91jyBFsYSAKJWR xXyCdZyLFwsMcfifbwu76Aq8WBn.IMT2JhXQQHsTM20edtQuDPYXraQHHr72QKKF1Q9X_K5JCn.u xqm0PKnWWafc4UTM9YuBy6YMTKobZL.vw6USgoMr7AmzBb.2Ajm6bGSt68n_DGIYiBIGVkRl8kOp QMDMXbfZfJX1c7GGlI_x9umnkHuy7BEKmOM2N66ppYItMSy8hJYFXxygVmdqiRbMnHnakWkjl54F x24mAnm5vXSnZae9OOKbBEVAzCmbuKkwxMXxUkirJh_i6MyzvbqJxnAc8x6XUD3nACy31yeXXxUL JvXnhqmIaXneMisIMnlwq9r9K39vHvqkyIXUp7wceAtdE9tK6_ZpB0NJlAykwNGBR7OQNOFVB.VG rKYeW8TgLsPGctGeBc8Mk7BqGCElLZqsrcPjF4Y.61_VtQdbk17JYFqcNjMhL.FEUNeu.lNA.pZw WeOrYUzINdFmaj.3.kR2GCG.AvmEvzcou7cwlQmdxVw8M6N483Uf2rXUoLMJAi9vYq90qlzS8wuS LPbt0_pX7pF.A0mCdPrfteARX81LomElcNy4k8UaL8VtTmL2v6l1piGBpL4eEeKOi8.ziq4Tlvna NJSNMZ9KAO.gjAD5I.LTIRdY1iBMZKten_RMa.MAZKpDV9r_VokIf9GsfhHC_H_awVavXmfXVa3z GIOIhDhSG1F2bZuKaneSWekDFqA1ohee4OtNdx9NiWsr96YicJ2guN0xewT4vpHiy7pjzCVoyeZn gIlH6UvvEvZ5X4uOo1aXq2A.Vb.kAxkhThJSlWOiRSfuVdkG8pHfObPpOI3rba5QPeBhEFIc2Asp HZmLdNiDpZt.sqC0u9ko6N6YLA_i1VuBFtoF1Datq6BaozSj_aFKjfe82nprIwxacd_mAFN9oS77 maxz9LDLu0EHUddUF1CPefRJd0I1__Y2P.PhKIIAH8dJDJ4AZdzg1efEyFQePiBlF9orXX3mvpG. 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I'm r= eally trying to get a foot hold and be comfortable with freebsd so I can us= e it in the future for personal use and hopefully professionally.what is ix= systems? Is this a good resource for learning? I'm planning on buying all o= f Michael lucas's books but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor= . You might start from reading the mailing list etiquette: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html especially the part where it says: "Please do not top post. By this, we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply" --=20 Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 08:22:42 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF8C3329EDF for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:22:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bourne.identity@hotmail.com) Received: from EUR06-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-vi1eur06olkn2045.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.17.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YvZ94ZBqz4S3g for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:22:41 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bourne.identity@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; 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Sat, 30 May 2020 08:07:41 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:E5455852B2BD7F3FBAC9354A4AE18A10D6A23F5B058640B3C386E27E6351BB7C; UpperCasedChecksum:BDC24E8F152136320FC9F89B36C6AA6D561CD3250A2248742B8B675D75CE4A6A; SizeAsReceived:8882; Count:49 Received: from DB8PR06MB6442.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cc9:9d58:c027:5919]) by DB8PR06MB6442.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cc9:9d58:c027:5919%5]) with mapi id 15.20.3045.022; Sat, 30 May 2020 08:07:40 +0000 Subject: Re: First PR To: Brandon helsley , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" References: From: Manish Jain Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 13:37:18 +0530 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.1 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: PN1PR0101CA0040.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:1096:c00:c::26) To DB8PR06MB6442.eurprd06.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:10:126::7) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <4d8883c3-5134-fb0f-dd54-0415641a8235@hotmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [192.168.1.5] (103.195.202.125) by PN1PR0101CA0040.INDPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:1096:c00:c::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3045.19 via Frontend Transport; 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RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.88)[0.883]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.93)[0.934]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.17.45:from]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.17.45:from]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 08:22:42 -0000 On 2020-05-30 13:25, Brandon helsley wrote: > I found a problem earlier this week with how the sysctl and kernel modules has to be added into the sysctl loader.conf and boot loader.conf for bhyve to boot past a missing boot/entropy. Could someone explain to me how to write a problem Report so I can gain The experience and get involved with ports? > Hi Brendon, To report a problem, login at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ With the kind of problem you are facing, you should probably choose the link to report under the category base system. Regards, Manish Jain From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 09:36:03 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F28D32C2BA for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:36:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM12-MW2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam12olkn2046.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.23.46]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YxBn4BlBz4Yln for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 09:36:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=jk6qq0Xf6nI5MgYihC9vfYHi/ehaR9xXHehIVTHJNph1QBl427eG518phFmKQWWO6hvg+tTfHpa2TpEPfvF3aesV9vB4s4It+dS+3KieaOn2aUnd1Hkv808MNNLyf/4H84TIRI0vbU7h+hDZjtFyreKouNBrlLTpqWukqeJuiMfvNju7IB0Zw6jOF60bKxrMBQeQZ+7D4pLEmXaxD1KwjHReQ46VLdxoLYwTKsawZjFctsq5pnbtGGNmqixt+uKrbBVUlD3OuhzWLJOXJhMyU1TbfOD1o0MjEO0TaCCPLrHNK1bbbyQBAhTXm3nqCizxC7DEyQkhoGIY+KJydAwsEQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; 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dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=rzgPJhYO; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.23.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.12 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.011]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.23.46:from]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.011]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.10)[-1.102]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.23.46:from]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 09:36:03 -0000 You might start from reading the mailing list etiquette: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html especially the part where it says: "Please do not top post. By this, we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply" -- Ottavio Caruso Brandon: like this? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org on behalf of Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:12:48 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 07:51, Brandon helsley wrote: > > Yes but on LPI it looks like their training programs are all Linux. I'm r= eally trying to get a foot hold and be comfortable with freebsd so I can us= e it in the future for personal use and hopefully professionally.what is ix= systems? Is this a good resource for learning? I'm planning on buying all o= f Michael lucas's books but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor= . You might start from reading the mailing list etiquette: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html especially the part where it says: "Please do not top post. By this, we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies after the text that you copy in your reply" -- Ottavio Caruso _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 10:18:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E26C32D334 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:18:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic313-56.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.185.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Yy8B5pqRz4cm0 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:18:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: ckwUYjEVM1l.JopaIP7uatSlg3ba_rTfZ2gNgH.dJj6e3SfhEZTtsN18NHcqb.A 5x0d2irlbBTZybsN3QmCnIjUAPXG4hf0A2jgDCVSePckk.E5p93kWZqFg4Eaz3gcGyBo_b5Z822P mer1iumoPSt7kgpgPfDMPezz1L8dmv1cxOPbXFqON.5CiVLZteQHmJfYiWbIo_mMANHGEfuxuPVs PvZTZHlZRwyltghelwG.gpBS6cTI12eYLcbdgzvX0YvTx8v3r7MXCgj_ivyhwDCvT69YZ8ox9pET 16BsRVT5cuHzXr8yi6l2sBi_8WQbHyVaNUb4glJwwYytdJaDpL3NYNi8MmazoHwZz2T.vRiyNvKx emEnjUkl6FYZ0D3OLJeED8ZPLwy56m_tsValhGxkZMNY3b4nBA9hyEmFsGwGARv5zZL67iJE4pJT gQO0fKgLL.R_t5jVM8xJlsKLFlhj6xeG8Gv86zoY8URfhCYS14ftEYChhPPSeXZ34.Wy1zNkl0B2 ra25.1oHB9QeHm2.bIMz6lgJn3Ja21A1uDQxhsLGEfDwVtOEANEEnIWSlS5Y4bH5T0y2oR2jwxJR zxC.1dixz_vpSNMZc_qpCbMzp.IyPpvrO0Kb5m0b0oe_9ZugBpzw3KCif4cLnz9E2W8QBKFNuzdL bw7UX.STfuZwcBMVuJ6rF7RJMcU1MuNF0A3DqVGwSUWSjZnNu3zzVtShyNRXsAWL.CE0eeUYqwH. 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By this, > we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies > after the text that you copy in your reply" > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > > > > > Brandon: like this? No, not like this. But I see what the problem is here: it's your app (Outlook Mobile) that won't let you quote the original and bottom post. Can you use a different mail client? You surely won't learn much about FreeBSD by using Outlook Mobile as your mail client. What's your OS? Android, iOs, God forbid Windows Mobile? I'm sure somebody here will come with a suggestion for a better mail client. -- Ottavio Caruso From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 10:22:52 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06AB32D47B for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM04-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam04olkn080c.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fe4d::80c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YyDq3f6wz4dLK for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; 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Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:49 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3045.018; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:49 +0000 From: Brandon helsley To: Ottavio Caruso , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Topic: FreeBSD Cert Thread-Index: AQHWNALm78ARjQAq90egME7+sgWNeqjACc8AgAAq5NSAABd8AIAAFx3EgAAMAACAAADMOg== Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:2E78260414C1AB8BD4425232AD504ED757DFF5F9B31473A269C90658EA1C32F4; UpperCasedChecksum:36EEB1CD5A1FCB6EAF4B9C734CACE45B6D15050F545FEA419CF8C1075DFB7446; SizeAsReceived:7346; Count:45 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-tmn: [k18dzUf1nOrgn7z6DsXYxYZZ8vjv/uwt] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-incomingheadercount: 45 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c59e126c-f61a-4791-1893-08d804836774 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: CO1NAM04HT237: x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; 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dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=RXIRbIIv; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 2a01:111:f400:fe4d::80c as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.82 / 15.00]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.006]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f400::/48]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.006]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a01:111:f400:fe4d::80c:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.81)[-0.807]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[yahoo.com,freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 10:22:52 -0000 Yes I can, I was starting to get pretty jumbled trying to find and save pas= t messages for information. Are there any suggestions for what mail client = to use? I could make a new one or use Gmail/aol. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org on behalf of Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:18:28 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 10:35, Brandon helsley wrote: > > You might start from reading the mailing list etiquette: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html > > especially the part where it says: "Please do not top post. By this, > we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies > after the text that you copy in your reply" > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > > > > > Brandon: like this? No, not like this. But I see what the problem is here: it's your app (Outlook Mobile) that won't let you quote the original and bottom post. Can you use a different mail client? You surely won't learn much about FreeBSD by using Outlook Mobile as your mail client. What's your OS? Android, iOs, God forbid Windows Mobile? I'm sure somebody here will come with a suggestion for a better mail client. -- Ottavio Caruso _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 10:30:12 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F19B732D96E for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 10:30:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM02-BL2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092003063.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.3.63]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49YyPH4STXz4dhq for ; 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FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 10:30:13 -0000 Android. Excuse me till I figure out the right one. And then I'll be in the= swing of things. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org on behalf of Ottavio Caruso via freebsd-questions Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:18:28 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Sat, 30 May 2020 at 10:35, Brandon helsley wrote: > > You might start from reading the mailing list etiquette: > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en/articles/mailing-list-faq/etiquette.html > > especially the part where it says: "Please do not top post. By this, > we mean that if you are replying to a message, please put your replies > after the text that you copy in your reply" > > -- > Ottavio Caruso > > > > > Brandon: like this? No, not like this. But I see what the problem is here: it's your app (Outlook Mobile) that won't let you quote the original and bottom post. Can you use a different mail client? You surely won't learn much about FreeBSD by using Outlook Mobile as your mail client. What's your OS? Android, iOs, God forbid Windows Mobile? I'm sure somebody here will come with a suggestion for a better mail client. -- Ottavio Caruso _______________________________________________ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= " From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 11:42:34 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D6432FA53 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 11:42:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::24b:4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Z00p1Lkpz3W0S for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 11:42:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:c4ea:bd49:619b:6cb3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (verified OK)) (Authenticated sender: matthew/mail) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E2838199BB for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 11:42:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matthew@FreeBSD.org) Received: from liminal.local (unknown [IPv6:2001:8b0:151:1:d0b2:8703:475d:40fc]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A0F621B7F7 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 11:42:32 +0000 (UTC) Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk; dmarc=none (p=none dis=none) header.from=FreeBSD.org Authentication-Results: smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk/A0F621B7F7; dkim=none; dkim-atps=neutral Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> From: Matthew Seaman Autocrypt: addr=matthew@FreeBSD.org; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQINBFJIL80BEADi7/VbnnErDU6pjEhI/SzEZ/HbDRkJ5g7HroAtqIRm6nj8ZwOAgZ/2ZnWn 5F+fXTuLsG0FLNtkd17FoVcuCi5e/GPliXI5cmamV7E1Yz4T8UsJ7RQolimyxVexccKd16Tc AA7B9bFlJSKkBUSD0buj7VjT07xWhRzu6Vgi5r0UjLALYJz977uZA0F1aOGOXREDEAOhdcNc kSNjynqAwDA6dCT1Elpi4key1fYjv4jyDF+GU/YXul2Y/rguA8FCkHd9vyym5eAsLQ5mG00V V9fkEHIpH5KorNVnl/ufHXnkZqmHAZVpFDcrshb7aZ/pL45PXyWgLj+e6etelgj3a2bZi0JF cVdXCnBZVP2oIyYblM11ugTbfCwodORU8a5KfPeztMdAtDr4e+32NTrPdPi5rLT+GUsYz+PL 3A3m3u8bdsFp40DlIrBtSByVjqERxcfhphrEB4J8BXHUG7OAtXkZMlW/PGKDwXJq0O6Z5Tcg 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text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 30/05/2020 07:51, Brandon helsley wrote: > what is ixsystems? Ixsystems is a company based in California and Tennessee who sell a range of hardware, including various storage solutions based on FreeBSD. The founders of the company included a number of FreeBSD developers, and they have been big supporters of the project over the years. The did at one time produce PC-BSD, a desktop-oriented distribution of FreeBSD, but unfortunately commercial pressures have lead to their ceasing development on that. > but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor 'Mentor' in the FreeBSD project has a formal meaning as 'the person (or people) designated to guide new committers.' It's one of those milestones you get to once your FreeBSD career is already quite well advanced. You don't tend to get nominated as a new committer until you've both a decent track record of patches or other code contributions, and established yourself as a member of the community by participating in on-line activities (basically showing that you can collaborate well with other committers) and preferably also by coming to some BSD conferences or other real-life events, although that is pretty much out of the question right now given the current pandemic. As to how to get started in FreeBSD work? Well, what areas interest you? What skill sets do you have that could be applied to the project? The project has pretty much always been chronically short of manpower, so volunteers in any areas are always most welcome. Cheers, Matthew --CL4YEMU7Lf9KWuEsnCbl7u1jKcg8ReuVQ-- --W5Z4syNbB9WfBTphr3G23p7YJE2xdqhJy Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQKTBAEBCgB9FiEEGfFU7L8RLlBUTj8wAFE/EOCp5OcFAl7SRzVfFIAAAAAALgAo aXNzdWVyLWZwckBub3RhdGlvbnMub3BlbnBncC5maWZ0aGhvcnNlbWFuLm5ldDE5 RjE1NEVDQkYxMTJFNTA1NDRFM0YzMDAwNTEzRjEwRTBBOUU0RTcACgkQAFE/EOCp 5OfU4Q//SS7ZxuAjwxkep481ImKjQLwtE+WUQzx5RaO9kFV1mUva1filrC1Wt7bp WkdeZxch/HQrMFu9qge4yp+/bpg3H/ygSZzmF+GqN0GPySqVc3hB8/V9nYVVOjSI e0Pl5L/KTCPrBmqyGpJVqDEdhgLPUyMBAeQqxQYgDqaUjzMbfh4FmCgp5BuAtgoT MBFg42CvoEDraXwNNFgOBDRRnEgSMekDjAV5sHjd+jWy2bxIgGTQzt6QzQE0ZQke sf4g5/kHz1anepVyw4WYPQPQqsT6mcLrW+G6lX/BJIFBI932wDuFI37iSuBYkLcB nxsBg14XwiTBrCsnKUqHTdxwqspxEq2UClrbVYkUQXsoroom7P5bb8JUyxNyMPD9 EQFs8zZN7HZPf8TNUzQRFTT+QUr3dJt/ZBObUjIkedmjubxL2ui6qCNWzdE9aoTC Y8r1YE0YRRjud0qeOIDcOTf7rwLYIZug2AmfygNNObNPL4aloSuFAuPptzwh8wLt 9+TZHgZKgp99508C8fhyGS6LRcYvybL+Mn7t3Jk/ssnr4WFTrAeQav98eK2pM7t1 neWuyOg2Mvt1D7Bx/dkmxg9SfAvNzxUoB1gPHqVpPR4DAtjVrIRR94Wi4V+ZOCcO 4iGrPq36YHrOVqtlMJgRp+U4COYjr50jMuodPdYVSfaIMESCmVU= =AWN5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --W5Z4syNbB9WfBTphr3G23p7YJE2xdqhJy-- From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 19:09:37 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 538B22F3264 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 19:09:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.73]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49Z9wc1VW1z4TKR for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 19:09:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MQMqN-1jJTFF1sMj-00MPGm; Sat, 30 May 2020 21:09:32 +0200 Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 21:09:30 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Mario Lobo Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: Sound problems. 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I tried everything I could. The microphone > sound goes out to the speakers, apps (firefox) detect a mic but its input > doesn't go back into the system. So I wanted to switch the recording source > pcm6, so: > > sysctl hw.snd.default_unit=6 > > which yields this: > > mixer > Mixer mic is currently set to 95:95 > > i.e., I won't be able to hear a damn thing, and applications won't detect a > mic. I had a comparable problem (not "mic not found", but "mic-through can be heared, but it doesn't record anything, in no program"). The solution was to set the gain mixer channels (igain, ogain) to 100, and then it worked; maybe 0...99 = off, 100 = on? ;-) So maybe try setting all related channels to 100 first and then see if you can reduce the level. In worst case, attach an external hardware mixer to get better level control (which is what I'm doing at the moment). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... 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RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 20:42:41 -0000 Ixsystems is a company based in California and Tennessee who sell a range of hardware, including various storage solutions based on FreeBSD. The founders of the company included a number of FreeBSD developers, and they have been big supporters of the project over the years. The did at one time produce PC-BSD, a desktop-oriented distribution of FreeBSD, but unfortunately commercial pressures have lead to their ceasing development on that. > but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor 'Mentor' in the FreeBSD project has a formal meaning as 'the person (or people) designated to guide new committers.' It's one of those milestones you get to once your FreeBSD career is already quite well advanced. You don't tend to get nominated as a new committer until you've both a decent track record of patches or other code contributions, and established yourself as a member of the community by participating in on-line activities (basically showing that you can collaborate well with other committers) and preferably also by coming to some BSD conferences or other real-life events, although that is pretty much out of the question right now given the current pandemic. As to how to get started in FreeBSD work? Well, what areas interest you? What skill sets do you have that could be applied to the project? The project has pretty much always been chronically short of manpower, so volunteers in any areas are always most welcome. Cheers, Matthew Brandon: I don't have any skills to contribute yet but want to know what ro= ute to take for starting an education so I can get involved. I've been read= ing books and getting hands dirty but it doesn't quite do the trick. I was = thinking so far as to get the BSD Certification and then maybe take some en= try programming courses. I'm interested in computer networking and porting = software but that seems a long ways away depending on what lies on the path= to these accomplishments and what they would have to do with FreeBSd. What= are your guys suggestions for skills to learn that have a place in the fre= ebsd community. Right now I'm useless.once this email thread is over I will= switch to k9. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org on behalf of Matthew Seaman Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020, 5:42 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On 30/05/2020 07:51, Brandon helsley wrote: > what is ixsystems? Ixsystems is a company based in California and Tennessee who sell a range of hardware, including various storage solutions based on FreeBSD. The founders of the company included a number of FreeBSD developers, and they have been big supporters of the project over the years. The did at one time produce PC-BSD, a desktop-oriented distribution of FreeBSD, but unfortunately commercial pressures have lead to their ceasing development on that. > but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor 'Mentor' in the FreeBSD project has a formal meaning as 'the person (or people) designated to guide new committers.' It's one of those milestones you get to once your FreeBSD career is already quite well advanced. You don't tend to get nominated as a new committer until you've both a decent track record of patches or other code contributions, and established yourself as a member of the community by participating in on-line activities (basically showing that you can collaborate well with other committers) and preferably also by coming to some BSD conferences or other real-life events, although that is pretty much out of the question right now given the current pandemic. As to how to get started in FreeBSD work? Well, what areas interest you? What skill sets do you have that could be applied to the project? The project has pretty much always been chronically short of manpower, so volunteers in any areas are always most welcome. 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ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 21:30:56 -0000 I reported the bug. How do I know it gets to the team? There's no menu opti= on to see past bug reports one has reported. In just not sure it went throu= gh. I submitted and saved changes. Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Manish Jain Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:07:18 AM To: Brandon helsley ; freebsd-questions@freebs= d.org Subject: Re: First PR On 2020-05-30 13:25, Brandon helsley wrote: > I found a problem earlier this week with how the sysctl and kernel module= s has to be added into the sysctl loader.conf and boot loader.conf for bhyv= e to boot past a missing boot/entropy. Could someone explain to me how to w= rite a problem Report so I can gain The experience and get involved with po= rts? > Hi Brendon, To report a problem, login at https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/ With the kind of problem you are facing, you should probably choose the link to report under the category base system. 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FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.18.35:from] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 22:28:05 -0000 Before you all go will you help me make sure I am bottom posting correctly = with k9mail first and answer my question about the intended path of educati= on to at least get started maintaining ports=2E I'm a quick learner and wou= ld maintain a lot of ports=2E On May 30, 2020 2:42:38 PM MDT, Brandon helsley wrote: >Ixsystems is a company based in California and Tennessee who sell a >range of hardware, including various storage solutions based on >FreeBSD=2E > >The founders of the company included a number of FreeBSD developers, >and >they have been big supporters of the project over the years=2E The did at >one time produce PC-BSD, a desktop-oriented distribution of FreeBSD, >but >unfortunately commercial pressures have lead to their ceasing >development on that=2E > >> but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor > >'Mentor' in the FreeBSD project has a formal meaning as 'the person (or >people) designated to guide new committers=2E' It's one of those >milestones you get to once your FreeBSD career is already quite well >advanced=2E You don't tend to get nominated as a new committer until >you've both a decent track record of patches or other code >contributions, and established yourself as a member of the community by >participating in on-line activities (basically showing that you can >collaborate well with other committers) and preferably also by coming >to >some BSD conferences or other real-life events, although that is pretty >much out of the question right now given the current pandemic=2E > >As to how to get started in FreeBSD work? Well, what areas interest >you? What skill sets do you have that could be applied to the project? >The project has pretty much always been chronically short of manpower, >so volunteers in any areas are always most welcome=2E > >Cheers, > >Matthew > > >Brandon: I don't have any skills to contribute yet but want to know >what route to take for starting an education so I can get involved=2E >I've been reading books and getting hands dirty but it doesn't quite do >the trick=2E I was thinking so far as to get the BSD Certification and >then maybe take some entry programming courses=2E I'm interested in >computer networking and porting software but that seems a long ways >away depending on what lies on the path to these accomplishments and >what they would have to do with FreeBSd=2E What are your guys suggestions >for skills to learn that have a place in the freebsd community=2E Right >now I'm useless=2Eonce this email thread is over I will switch to k9=2E > >Sent from Outlook Mobile > >________________________________ >From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd=2Eorg > on behalf of Matthew Seaman > >Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020, 5:42 AM >To: freebsd-questions@freebsd=2Eorg >Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert > >On 30/05/2020 07:51, Brandon helsley wrote: >> what is ixsystems? > >Ixsystems is a company based in California and Tennessee who sell a >range of hardware, including various storage solutions based on >FreeBSD=2E > >The founders of the company included a number of FreeBSD developers, >and >they have been big supporters of the project over the years=2E The did >at >one time produce PC-BSD, a desktop-oriented distribution of FreeBSD, >but >unfortunately commercial pressures have lead to their ceasing >development on that=2E > >> but I'm first searching for official freebsd mentor > >'Mentor' in the FreeBSD project has a formal meaning as 'the person (or >people) designated to guide new committers=2E' It's one of those >milestones you get to once your FreeBSD career is already quite well >advanced=2E You don't tend to get nominated as a new committer until >you've both a decent track record of patches or other code >contributions, and established yourself as a member of the community by >participating in on-line activities (basically showing that you can >collaborate well with other committers) and preferably also by coming >to >some BSD conferences or other real-life events, although that is pretty >much out of the question right now given the current pandemic=2E > >As to how to get started in FreeBSD work? Well, what areas interest >you? What skill sets do you have that could be applied to the project? >The project has pretty much always been chronically short of manpower, >so volunteers in any areas are always most welcome=2E > > Cheers, > > Matthew > > >_______________________________________________ >freebsd-questions@freebsd=2Eorg mailing list >https://lists=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions >To unsubscribe, send any mail to >"freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd=2Eorg" --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 22:54:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98ED02F9F46 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49ZGw11tKbz3clp; Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.95.28]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MspyA-1iqNAE0XHc-00t8s7; Sun, 31 May 2020 00:54:22 +0200 Date: Sun, 31 May 2020 00:54:21 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Brandon Helsley Cc: Matthew Seaman , "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert Message-Id: <20200531005421.8f845320.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <626d9ab4-b00b-6112-8697-ea972eceb5b2@heuristicsystems.com.au> <8696720e-3c03-8ffa-6b2c-4c4c98772a49@FreeBSD.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qBLmuO+sScqvKKP4KRtNUU5n5hs1rZ+hVtbxPawM/9erbs1l1++ MV5vz00/3fJ41FJQ6Sr0wcmiKvvUc8OY6aOueawocDPASSSIgLugpUw70FpOUaP5Fi2D0HO imsPrgVO4H4egi0SFKwksvnMbXCJz5AA/TuTgQkmIn01tQ1fyOODmFethf49xjINDYuRu1X q5r+hXXOLObH4JGtGNtAg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:X1s720HtwJQ=:Ajc/KxnJCWjLYblBmdDJZx jIq/trercjBXu+P+0VRTohPQvqevcPLHWczwqifH3C1KAvKEPWtntLeQOdMxYNDMyIjFGO60V teWBGB0bmh+kk3Mj8jPmdJpcQ7PLAFz1J19jW3KvSdsOlkcgUPZ5OcD9w8wu41aHHrhWuR5h9 PRosQRlXmJRAHDVGbVFcsEumx5WY7CJOjFtwz4Q8buZx3LJpyGla4qWP5PRqv5o5zgRxPy5qA KFSaruhjr/sNc210Byfl60cWPv74a6sk1B3JnE/DBfP6JBYusmVtFanWC388y7bQ0xEchtM2x PDFPVzuvnSi46h99lYrZXyN/yVObBAQwNDW2dwifJoFdRohHzA8WGDFjTGUZD0NQdRwTA7Zpd uM0Lqo+hyrEQ4kXGTXlEvFpz9iU+a9Ia5NgrciSFJ2zNXpvQxdNIWg+THgifdhAo2/FdJfGwk BzBjkR84AtgArjbr5Td1Y1knUEj68AgxVKGv+DV2ZSwaauK45sb6yJB24kiTHa1x8/vINQKxQ kJhqtSRDNqFOIAbMQOLdxcvCvSgtsHN227VuykM8UKqTMYWYAvBRmB+A4RjZQ5TOn0ZSe9vID dgvufoJTIjGVt5evinLqWtbMB18I1l7dwigG/ke/N+SoOdfYDkYDJS+xm8sHlLunCLQRmlF9J 3UQDhQzwqbPO+Vkv8ZKaGlw0eAwxi4BBEySCHNMix/18NAF6zSO0EtJSJxL+7p2wWEUZJZMy2 0oUSZnZ/uEk+f5W6g5npqVbD2Kyux+dJKCSkU5jISBWmBJRFQ+DjehwTjhH/I33A4ngwmkKFy xQXXAyG4tQVMKLWqUnKTrCEVbs+P/62UHoHh5S1KGgxhMbrfKXTVjQIAGLqpySe0W34LorkrO Mv5WvAoLKenzd/1c2LoA== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49ZGw11tKbz3clp X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; 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RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:26 -0000 On Sat, 30 May 2020 16:28:00 -0600, Brandon Helsley wrote: > Before you all go will you help me make sure I am bottom posting > correctly with k9mail first [...] Make sure the indentation characters are "> " (note the space); even though this should be quite standard, it's worth verifying. Delete passages of the previous message you're not replying to. You also don't need to include user-specific signatures and such. If you have a look at the message archives, for example for this mailing list, you can see how the preferred style of discussion is on the FreeBSD mailing lists. As you will see, there are several styles, but all of them have in common that they make it easy to follow a discussion thread, to see "who wrote what" in a convenient way. You can take _this_ message as an example. ;-) > [...] and answer my question about the intended path of education > to at least get started maintaining ports. As it has been pointed out, the FreeBSD-provided resources are important, such as The Porter's Handbook. There is also nothing wrong in reading a good real book about FreeBSD, and exercising using a FreeBSD system, no matter if this happens in a VM or on bare metal. I'm not sure certifications are a way to go here. In general, those seem to confirm, on shiny paper, that you have paid the fee for obtaining that shiny paper. In some cases, you need to show that you actually did understand something, in a test. Yes, this sounds as if I don't believe in certifications, but reality is... I don't believe in certifications because I have seen too many that aren't worth the shiny paper (and definitely not the money paid) except that they enable job positions by their existence, not by knowledge and experience of their holder. This might be specific to Germany where upper-class HR management believes in "the power of shiny paper", so please don't see this as a discouragement to take a course where you actually benefit (!) from it. However, personally, I found that self-guided learning is the better way, at least for people who are able to direct themselves (and yes, this is not universal to everyone). You said you're interested in networking, so this is a good entry point. See The FreeBSD Handbook for the networking chapters and start experimenting; find a port that deals with networking and become a maintainer, or create your own software port for something that you feel is missing on FreeBSD. That could be, for example, a GUI tool to interface with system tools and system files to manage local network settings. :-) > I'm a quick learner and would maintain a lot of ports. It's not about the amount, but also about the quality of port maintainership. Especially software that receives security patches is worth being maintained in a quick manner, such as, for example, a SSH server or a web server or a crypto component, or a library that is being used as an essential part of such software. In such cases, providing good and fast solutions to a new problem is the key. Depending on _what_ you want to maintain, the learing course you should take can be quite different. As mentioned, first of all you should make yourself familiar with the port building infra- structure and tools. You should furthermore be sufficiently skilled in the programming language(s) the desired port uses. This can be from a wide range: Ports that contain device drivers often use C and assembly, GUI ports can use C++, and you'll find lots of software written in Python; other software is "just" a shell script... so the ultimate answer is: It depends. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 22:54:32 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DB1C2F9E71 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:32 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scott.gasch@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ot1-x329.google.com (mail-ot1-x329.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::329]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49ZGw76nFHz3cgJ for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:31 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from scott.gasch@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ot1-x329.google.com with SMTP id u23so4928543otq.10 for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 15:54:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=XBzSQVID7OvgG3mr5KXUyddRZvomDtDlq5qj4+dq8vg=; b=D0rB0ZxeBzx9x+hLUqAvnIt/5tUjssivsSZ9WUrqSBy58bslYLc+cCE2gt1ENallcI s1KYdnJVDySStGllXYKIIo6C6SL7BvVTk571Tehc9FSdSQUDgGrN4Fuyxj2dT5IXeAQi NNtaDeq1ceW8qyr4UA9DJcZ/plHN8O4KscLyHyWkOfFsBpWQHZcSP9SFweHzxc3qiKQv 5t7iFQ01EBlfWFN9yBGQUr6TPMLI0GMlSLJc3La+zCZXaT4HGxVzAmmj29HdZtx251ey VFw3Q8DUyOS2ENKIM56CuTMu/pHJaKfDTzt6Ib+qjwxCk0D+QKmLfkC1JRiuWwMniHrv sozw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:from:date:message-id :subject:to; bh=XBzSQVID7OvgG3mr5KXUyddRZvomDtDlq5qj4+dq8vg=; b=VHOQApiGgKWglkBpFgmaLOJ5d5sVnhexHUBbx5/0FAHhCmaj+PBEDfD2j0JflOitQW TGKFp1zz1mqqZwGVQ/bXIz3U0vpRl41gs04RDqs3kV8hpnBWiapiuyCIeiB511qI9lWK ksPXocdhOfx1WyspAeWnMLnZOp6x8NtXNddDtvkz211m1G6HRgGQqzU3ULe7K1KbcztH 1PzNblkMs+Uxwunvog5lHtNTdujNFoXT2u1TC9DAIjx5Os/jtujKc+QY20APJsdPb87r T2vlwuHQ+3ib5Ku8ws9uhdyQCGCq7T0ps5X92mDAtFHVK29btqlKYpzb3GdsWsgSsnvU uqFA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531bF1+nBtCEucun++Nu5jOM3iFlwuCOBYVWkD4CK4EBPt5t1VE/ DoNKgzPUKm5C+7H89bilwTpyZYCj1Jimx0s6VnQ0OAwt X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxlovpHwyklfPL63uzFZPS4DitZ9DGnSet6ZfqbOmpyVoBBGWz3a61POfI6j2P96aKYU8ZvUVq47NSmWQz817o= X-Received: by 2002:a9d:7416:: with SMTP id n22mr12217808otk.35.1590879270746; Sat, 30 May 2020 15:54:30 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Reply-To: scott@gasch.org From: Scott Gasch Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 15:54:04 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Persistent static route not present after reboot To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49ZGw76nFHz3cgJ X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=D0rB0Zxe; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of scottgasch@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::329 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=scottgasch@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[scott@gasch.org]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.97)[-0.966]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.990]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; REPLYTO_DOM_NEQ_FROM_DOM(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.24)[0.245]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::329:from]; HTTP_TO_IP(1.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 22:54:32 -0000 Hi, I'm trying to add a persistent static route to a freebsd machine: # uname -a FreeBSD backup 12.1-RELEASE-p2 FreeBSD 12.1-RELEASE-p2 GENERIC amd64 I've done this by adding these lines to rc.conf per this doc : defaultrouter="10.0.0.1" static_routes="vpn" route_vpn="-net 192.168.0.0/24 10.0.0.18" When I reboot the machine, the route is not there: # netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Netif Expire default 10.0.0.1 UGS em0 10.0.0.0/24 link#1 U em0 10.0.0.33 link#1 UHS lo0 127.0.0.1 link#4 UH lo0 However if I run "service routing restart" the route is added. Why isn't this happening at boot time? # service routing restart Doing route _loopback delete host 127.0.0.1 : gateway lo0 Doing route vpn route: route has not been found delete net 192.168.0.0 : gateway 10.0.0.18 fib 0: not in table. // <--- not there to tear down Doing route _default delete net default: gateway 10.0.0.1 delete host ::1: gateway lo0 delete net fe80::: gateway ::1 delete net ff02::: gateway ::1 delete net ::ffff:0.0.0.0 : gateway ::1 delete net ::0.0.0.0 : gateway ::1 Doing route _loopback add host 127.0.0.1 : gateway lo0 Doing route vpn add net 192.168.0.0 : gateway 10.0.0.18. // <--- but happy to add it now. Doing route _default add net default: gateway 10.0.0.1 add host ::1: gateway lo0 add net fe80::: gateway ::1 add net ff02::: gateway ::1 add net ::ffff:0.0.0.0 : gateway ::1 add net ::0.0.0.0 : gateway ::1 Thx, Scott From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 30 23:04:01 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9364D2FA46E for ; Sat, 30 May 2020 23:04:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam11olkn2070.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.18.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49ZH744dFQz3dY6; Sat, 30 May 2020 23:04:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; 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FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 May 2020 23:04:01 -0000 So to find out the legality of licensing to port a program to freebsd do al= l I have to do is contact that programs website. And then source code is qu= ite easy to obtain I see. It would just be on git hub right. For the execut= able script and profiles and config files l, I guessing the porters handboo= k is how you fashion those in working order? Sent from Outlook Mobile ________________________________ From: Polytropon Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 4:54:21 PM To: Brandon Helsley Cc: Matthew Seaman ; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD Cert On Sat, 30 May 2020 16:28:00 -0600, Brandon Helsley wrote: > Before you all go will you help me make sure I am bottom posting > correctly with k9mail first [...] Make sure the indentation characters are "> " (note the space); even though this should be quite standard, it's worth verifying. Delete passages of the previous message you're not replying to. You also don't need to include user-specific signatures and such. If you have a look at the message archives, for example for this mailing list, you can see how the preferred style of discussion is on the FreeBSD mailing lists. As you will see, there are several styles, but all of them have in common that they make it easy to follow a discussion thread, to see "who wrote what" in a convenient way. You can take _this_ message as an example. ;-) > [...] and answer my question about the intended path of education > to at least get started maintaining ports. As it has been pointed out, the FreeBSD-provided resources are important, such as The Porter's Handbook. There is also nothing wrong in reading a good real book about FreeBSD, and exercising using a FreeBSD system, no matter if this happens in a VM or on bare metal. I'm not sure certifications are a way to go here. In general, those seem to confirm, on shiny paper, that you have paid the fee for obtaining that shiny paper. In some cases, you need to show that you actually did understand something, in a test. Yes, this sounds as if I don't believe in certifications, but reality is... I don't believe in certifications because I have seen too many that aren't worth the shiny paper (and definitely not the money paid) except that they enable job positions by their existence, not by knowledge and experience of their holder. This might be specific to Germany where upper-class HR management believes in "the power of shiny paper", so please don't see this as a discouragement to take a course where you actually benefit (!) from it. However, personally, I found that self-guided learning is the better way, at least for people who are able to direct themselves (and yes, this is not universal to everyone). You said you're interested in networking, so this is a good entry point. See The FreeBSD Handbook for the networking chapters and start experimenting; find a port that deals with networking and become a maintainer, or create your own software port for something that you feel is missing on FreeBSD. That could be, for example, a GUI tool to interface with system tools and system files to manage local network settings. :-) > I'm a quick learner and would maintain a lot of ports. It's not about the amount, but also about the quality of port maintainership. Especially software that receives security patches is worth being maintained in a quick manner, such as, for example, a SSH server or a web server or a crypto component, or a library that is being used as an essential part of such software. In such cases, providing good and fast solutions to a new problem is the key. Depending on _what_ you want to maintain, the learing course you should take can be quite different. As mentioned, first of all you should make yourself familiar with the port building infra- structure and tools. You should furthermore be sufficiently skilled in the programming language(s) the desired port uses. This can be from a wide range: Ports that contain device drivers often use C and assembly, GUI ports can use C++, and you'll find lots of software written in Python; other software is "just" a shell script... so the ultimate answer is: It depends. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...