From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Sep 3 09:17:33 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB970106566B for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:17:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from unix.hacker@comcast.net) Received: from qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net (qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net [76.96.59.212]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9CC8FC14 for ; Sat, 3 Sep 2011 09:17:33 +0000 (UTC) Received: from omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.62.36]) by qmta14.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id U9HZ1h0020mv7h05E9HZeg; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:17:33 +0000 Received: from [192.168.2.2] ([68.61.31.42]) by omta11.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net with comcast id U9HW1h0080uXiss3X9HY1E; Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:17:33 +0000 Message-ID: <4E61F0BF.9030403@comcast.net> Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 05:17:51 -0400 From: Allen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:6.0.1) Gecko/20110830 Thunderbird/6.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <86wre8inmi.fsf@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: A quality operating system X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 09:17:34 -0000 Maybe I can play Diplomat here, considering that I use both BSD and Linux and Windows, and I won't pretend to care about any of your feelings and just be Honest: On 8/20/2011 2:09 PM, Michael Sierchio wrote: > On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser > wrote: > >> 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, but >> that I *have* to is ridiculous. Updating a server should not be more >> difficult than "yum update" -- full stop. > > Are you lazy, or stupid? man freebsd-update OK, I too use freebsd-update to update my base system, but, other than the port manager tools, I've PERSONALLY watched "portupgrade -aF" basically break a system. I saw one person say "Well you can't upgrade one version of Red Hat to another" but really, who here actually cares about Red Hat? I came from SUSE and Slackware, both of which have had very well thought out upgrades for a while. (Slackware didn't for a while, but apparently slackpkg does this now) but SUSE was always easy to upgrade. I think one thing I can personally agree with when it comes to what was said, is the whole thing about patching; Why isn't there yet a tool that will simply grab ALL security patches? I mean Debian can do apt-get update && apt-get upgrade and then grab everything from the Kernel's patches to xmms patches, install them, and I'm done. Try that on any version of BSD before PC-BSD came around. I get that a lot of BSD people are programmers and like looking at source code, but personally, not being a coder, I don't CARE what flags something uses.... I think if FreeBSD had an all purpose patching tool, it would be a lot better. I mean sure, you use freebsd-update and it updates the base system, but anything you use on the machine is usually a port of some sort, and doing those.... When I first started using FreeBSD, I was looking at how to install patches for security, and I was like WTF I have to do what? I'm not quite sure why no one has ever made a tool that grabs all security patches and installs them for you, but they should. It would be REALLY nice if FreeBSD had freebsd-update that worked on ports too, because the process of updating those, it IS a little much. I've been using FreeBSD since 4.0 and to be 100% Honest, I've never once managed to actually upgrade a system. And that's while sitting with the FreeBSD.org Docs sitting open on another machine going down the list of what I was supposed to do. It was time consuming, and compiling things.... Again, not a programmer. The guy who said updating should be no more than "yum update" had a point. I get why ports are separated and all that, but why not compromise and have a way to install security patches on both at the same time? I recently installed PC-BSD on my Laptop, and the fact that it grabs patches for me and installs them, more than proves it could be added over to FreeBSD.