From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 01:24:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA08585 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:24:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA08567 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:24:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA19329; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:21:01 -0800 To: Terry Lambert cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson), hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 26 Jan 1996 11:51:24 MST." <199601261851.LAA04990@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:21:01 -0800 Message-ID: <19327.822820861@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I read the Lai/Baker paper: in "Figure 1", FreeBSD kicks some serious > butt on context switches -- it appears to be both flat and linear past > 200 processes (the limit of the graph in the figure). Actually, at a later talk it came out that Linux had substantially improved this in the current release. However, both this talk and Larry McVoy's talk that followed it were wastes of paper and time for all concerned. First, the Lai/Baker talk spent 9/10ths of its time benchmarking the 3 various systems (Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris) and going into great and wonderful detail about how they strove to make each benchmark fair and complete. That was fine, and I had no problems with it up to that point when, in the last 1/10th of the talk, in a somewhat bizarre segue they threw all of the preceeding data out on its ear with the pat statement that "performance really didn't matter anyway." They chose Linux because they liked whichever mailing list or IRC channel they hung out in, and they made no effort to compare the level of support they'd received with FreeBSD or make any qualitative statements about it whatsoever. Small wonder, I suppose, since none of us could remember being contacted by any of the principles either way. >From where we were sitting, it was pretty clear that they had already decided on Linux at some earlier point in the game (for whatever reason) and everything that followed was a weak attempt at back-solving. Some aspects of this were downright surreal. In the network benchmark tests, for example, they used a Linux machine as the NFS server in their client benchmark despite acknowledging the fact that Linux had performed at 30% the speed of FreeBSD in general network performance and was thus entirely unsuitable for trying to prove the theoretical performance limits for a Linux or FreeBSD NFS client. One might as well attempt to measure the top speed of two runners while both are dragging anvils behind them! When later pressed on this point, they cited a resource shortage. They couldn't find a second PC and their only other NFS server was a Sparcstation I. C'mon, these people are doing benchmarking and publishing the results at USENIX and they can't even locate a lousy $3K PC to do their research correctly? I'm sorry, but this presentation was simply a shoddy affair with no attempt even made to adequately substantiate the conclusions it reached. One star. Then we had Larry McVoy discussing his lmbench suite, another presentation with a promising start and an utterly ludicrous conclusion. First Larry discussed the suite itself and his "microbenchmark" design, which was perfectly fine and dandy and we were all interested in knowing how he generated his numbers - no problems so far. His enthusiasm for Linux later led him entirely astray, however, as he took his own surreal trip into the twilight zone and actually attempted to *compare the numbers*. Now that might not sound like such a bad thing on the surface of it until you realize that when I say "compare the numbers" I mean "compare any numbers against any other numbers." He had collected together a complete hodge-podge of machine traces running under a wide variety of operating systems, no two matching OS/machine combinations among them, and "matched them up." Did you know, for example, that Linux 1.2.x running on a P6/200 out-performs a FreeBSD 2.1.0 machine running on a P5/133? I only knew it to be generally true before but Larry, by god, had the hard numbers to prove it! We also lost out to Linux on the ALPHA, I'm afraid, and it was with a heavy heart that I had to bow my head in shame when Larry pointed to the final numbers, which clearly showed $20K-$50K Linux boxes knocking the shorts off our little $4K FreeBSD box, and gleefully announced that "Linux kicked butt." It was almost as if our august researchers started out with the very best of intentions, thinking caps screwed squarely in place, and had completed a substantial portion of their presentations when they were suddenly stricken with severe cases of the Finnish Flu (reputedly linked with the GPV virus) - an ailment which causes the body temperature to rise until the very air is heated with every exhalation; the eyes go slack and the sufferer can only drool helplessly, twitching and murmering "Linus... Linus!" I dunno, one might say that I'm just angry that they didn't pick my horse and now I'm throwing a tantrum about it, but I'm genuinely not angry here so much as I'm simply *puzzled* and, yes, perhaps feeling a little short-changed at going to a conference to listen to a little good science (of which there was, thankfully, a considerable amount elsewhere) and encountering instead the same kind of knee-jerk, "stand on a soap-box in Hyde park" evangelism that I can get for free on USENET any time I'm stupid enough to tune into it. For a $400 conference, and from Lai and McVoy, I expected standards somewhat higher than that. Too bad. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 01:40:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09520 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:40:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA09513 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA19498; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:39:16 -0800 To: Michael Simon cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD SysAdmin In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 27 Jan 1996 02:23:35 GMT." <199601270223.CAA07182@iserve.bigweb.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:39:16 -0800 Message-ID: <19495.822821956@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD -- I know they are a few on the freebsd.org page, but I'd like some > reccommendations. Also - Should FreeBSD be able to run BSDI 4.x binaries? Do Buy Evi Nemeth's book. It's in the cites. BSDI 1.x binaries will work with any current release of FreeBSD. BSDI 2.x binaries will only work with FreeBSD-current, though this will go into 2.1.1. Jordan > I have to do anything else? Thanks for your help and I hope to be able to > contribute questions and answers often. > > -Mike Simon > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Michael Simon > Event Horizon > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > In the Unix System Administration Handbook, Evi Nemeth has this to say about > daemons: > > "Many people equate the word ``daemon'' with the word ``demon,'' > implying some kind of Satanic > connection between UNIX and the underworld. This is an egregious > misunderstanding. ``Daemon'' is > actually a much older form of ``demon''; daemons have no particular bias > towards good or evil, but > rather serve to help define a person's character or personality. The ancient > Greeks' concept of a > ``personal daemon'' was similar to the modern concept of a ``guardian > angel'' --- ``eudaemonia'' > is the state of being helped or protected by a kindly spirit. As a rule, > UNIX systems seem to be > infested with both daemons and demons." (p403) > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 01:54:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA10621 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA10614 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:54:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA12119 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:54:28 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA05011 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:54:28 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA01284 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:43:46 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601280943.KAA01284@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sysexits.h. which EX_ to use To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:43:46 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jan 27, 96 10:29:44 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > examples: > if fclose(stdout) fails, use EX_OSERR ? > > fstat() a file fails, use EX_OSERR ? > > read() an existing file fails, use EX_OSERR or EX_IOERR ? > > write() to stdout fails, use EX_OSERR or EX_IOERR ? MHO: EX_IOERR for read/write/fclose EX_OSERR for fstat (stat'ing should always be possible if the file exists) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 02:18:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13179 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 02:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from casparc.ppp.net (casparc.ppp.net [194.64.12.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA13163 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 02:18:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ernie by casparc.ppp.net with uucp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tgTwB-000I2cC; Sun, 28 Jan 96 11:02 MET Received: by ernie.altona.hamburg.com (Smail3.1.29.1 #4) id m0tgTZ7-00000kC; Sun, 28 Jan 96 10:38 MET Message-Id: From: hm@altona.hamburg.com (Hellmuth Michaelis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:38:29 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199601271740.MAA07892@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 27, 96 12:40:41 pm Reply-To: hm@altona.hamburg.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From the keyboard of dennis: > the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades > board needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? As far as i understood it the situation is like this: the 2.1 driver has some (please correct me if i'm wrong !!) problems and so Brian Litzinger (sp?) wrote a replacement driver. This driver needs a) a hardware modification in the plugs and b) need mgetty because the interlock between incoming and outgoing calls is not done in the driver (so it must be done with mgetty). a) and b) are not acceptable for my purposes. Someone else wrote that the -current Cyclades driver works fine. Has someone backported the diffs to 2.1 or -stable yet ? Are there any _first-hand_ 2.1/-stable experiences with any Cyclades driver ? hellmuth -- Hellmuth Michaelis hm@altona.hamburg.com Hamburg, Europe (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)nstall BSD ? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 02:24:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13899 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 02:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA13880 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 02:24:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id LAA03591; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:21:02 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601281021.LAA03591@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:21:01 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199601280750.XAA00879@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jan 27, 96 11:50:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The direction which I am thinking of taking is to wired the > graphic card's frame buffer to the matrox meteor driver . > This way the meteor can dump video data with no software > intervention whatsover and if the graphic card is capable we > should be able to see 640x480*4 at 30fps. My rationale for doing > this is just speed, speed, and speed and the pathetic > memory bandwith that we have in the Pentium. Since the cpu is not involved in this kind of transfers, it's more like a problem of PCI / video ram bandwidth. A few numbers: NTSC, 640*480*30fps, 32bpp 36.864 MB/s PAL, 768*576*25fps, 32bpp 44.237 MB/s NTSC, 640*480*30fps, 16bpp 18.432 MB/s PAL, 768*576*25fps, 16bpp 22.118 MB/s Now, depending on the video refresh rate, you might not have enought bandwidth on the VRAM to do it, except perhaps in the 15-bit modes. > Now with something like the video extensions is conceivable with > little pain to dump the video stream to the off display region > and then use proper X semantics to display the frame. Usually > internal blts in graphic engine have tons of bandwith. Additionally, If I get it right, dumping video off screen and moving it back with blt ops in the video engine might allow a correct handling of overlapping windows, but at the cost of a lot of work in the video accelerator (you must ask for a redraw on every frame). Bottom line: we have three active modules in our system: CPU, video chipset, frame-grabber-controller. Inexpensive live video can be achieved by keeping busy only the latter, but only if the video window is completely visible (or invisible :) ). Dealing with oddly-shaped windows requires a lot of work by either the CPU or the video chipset. In both cases I suspect the system has not much horsepower left. Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 03:37:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA22403 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (gatekeeper2.mcimail.com [192.147.45.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA22388 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 03:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA28744; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:39:42 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id aj06697; 28 Jan 96 11:38 WET Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 06:16 EST From: "MCI Mail X.400 Service" To: hackers Subject: Message Status Message-Id: <52960128111625/POSTMASTERD49X4@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk DELIVERY NOTICE Referencing: Message id: 60960126231206/0003765414DC1EM Subject: hackers-digest V Your Message To: C=IN A=VSNL P=XEEMAIL O=XEEDEL OU1=XEENET S=vivekp could not be delivered to this recipient. Reason: Transfer failure. Diagnostic: Maximum time expired. This non-delivery notice generated: SUN JAN 28, 1996 11:16 am GMT From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 04:16:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25481 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from w8hd.w8hd.org (w8hd.w8hd.org [198.252.159.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25462 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:15:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by w8hd.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id HAA02139; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:15:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:15:33 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: new -stable won't boot Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This newly installed -stable gives this error when its about to load the kernel: Boot: Error: C:1034 > 1023 (BIOS limit) This is on an ASUS P55TP4XE which had been running -current from about 8-27-95 with no problems. Same for the Adaptec 2940 controller. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 04:41:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27615 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:41:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from alex.iet.unipi.it (alex.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.235]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27608 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:41:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from vicisano@localhost) by alex.iet.unipi.it (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA22753; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:26:08 +0100 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:26:08 +0100 (MET) From: Lorenzo Vicisano To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ac_btime field of acct (process accounting) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [sorry if you've already seen this, but I'm having problem with my address list] As I am interested in evaluating statistics on process arrival time at a given machine, I thought of using the BSD kernel process accounting facility. Unfortunately the `ac_btime' field of `acct' struct only contains seconds since the Epoch (I would like to have bigger resolution). One possible solution to the problem is to modify `ac_btime' contents (not its size) fitting there some bits for fraction of second without loosing any information on Epoch. To do that you can exploit the fact that most significant bits of `ac_btime' change very slowly. I noticed that `lastcomm' is the only tool that uses that field (is it true?), so the unique that has to be modified, except `acct_process()' routine in the kernel. Any advice/comments? Thanks, Lorenzo. <|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|> | Lorenzo Vicisano | http://www.iet.unipi.it/~vicisano | | Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione | e-mail vicisano@iet.unipi.it | | Universita' di Pisa | Phone +39-50-568654 | | Via Diotisalvi, 2 56100 PISA, ITALY | Fax +39-50-568522 | <|--------------------------------------------------------------------------|> From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 04:43:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27772 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:43:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from plato.algonet.se (mail.algonet.se [193.12.207.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27763 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from sophocles.algonet.se (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by plato.algonet.se (8.6.12/hdw.1.0) with ESMTP id NAA04881; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:43:02 +0100 Received: (from mal@localhost) by sophocles.algonet.se (8.6.12/hdw.1.0) id NAA25243; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:42:11 +0100 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:42:11 +0100 Message-Id: <199601281242.NAA25243@sophocles.algonet.se> From: Mats Lofkvist To: nate@sri.MT.net CC: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199601271937.MAA04890@rocky.sri.MT.net> (message from Nate Williams on Sat, 27 Jan 1996 12:37:41 -0700) Subject: Re: ntp stuff? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I would not say I'm a ntp guru, but I do use it (at work synchronizing an "internet unplugged" network to the local clock in a sun ipx and at home synchronizing my pc to the nearest real ntp server I could find). To make the xntpd daemon sync to a external server, I can't see why ---- server # this makes me a client of external server driftfile /etc/ntp.drift # not sure this is necessary, might be default ---- in /etc/ntp.conf wouldn't work. More than one "server" line is good for redundancy. Basically the same in your client machines but with the ip pointing to your gateway machine instead of the external server(s) should also work. All of this is of course assuming your firewall is letting the necessary packets through... My home config: ----/etc/ntp.conf---- server 192.36.125.2 # sunic.sunet.se server 194.68.128.19 prefer # Stockholm-DGIX.sunet.se driftfile /etc/ntp.drift keys /etc/ntp.keys requestkey 1 controlkey 1 ---- ----/etc/ntp.keys---- (-rw-------) 1 M xyzzy ---- ----/etc/sysconfig--- ... # xntpd flags, or NO if you don't want to start the xntpd daemon xntpdflags= # this is inoperative unless xntpd is enabled; NO to disable tickadjflags="-Aq" ... ---- (I also had to set TIMER_FREQ in my config file to make ntp not lose sync after a few minutes due to too large drifts.) _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 04:49:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA28279 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:49:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from jau.csc.fi (root@jau.csc.fi [193.166.1.196]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA28264 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 04:49:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jau@localhost) by jau.csc.fi (8.6.12/8.6.12+CSC-2.1) id OAA00704 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:31:42 +0200 From: Jukka Ukkonen Message-Id: <199601281231.OAA00704@jau.csc.fi> Subject: POSIX.4 scheduler interface for FreeBSD-2.1 To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:31:40 +0200 (EET) Latin-Date: Duminice XXVIII Ianuarie a.d. MCMXCVI Organization: Private person Phone: +358-0-6215280 (home) Content-Conversion: prohibited X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi all! I have spent a while tinkering with a POSIX.4 style scheduling interface to FreeBSD. Attached are the results. Before I added POSIX.4 style scheduling interface I had to add another realtime scheduling policy to the kernel. The new one uses FIFO logic required by POSIX.4 for realtime processes meaning that a process running under FIFO policy has no predetermined time slice, and it will not be involuntarily released from the CPU. The old realtime policy is still present, and it matches nicely the round-robin realtime policy in POSIX.4. Both even use the same scheduling queue. I have been running e.g. xntpd with realtime fifo priority for about a month now without any problems. At least one important question still remains to be considered. What is the benefit of having separate realtime policies at all, if there still is the possibility of a problem known as priority inversion? E.g. a process with relatively high (realtime) priority wishes to communicate with another process with worse priority using a pipe in which there is no free buffer space available. Now the process with higher priority would have to wait for the process with lower priority to read from the pipe to make room for the data to be written by the higher priority process. While waiting for the buffer to drain the process with higher priority could become pre-empted by a process which has its priority somewhere between the priorities of the communicating processes. And so we see the grand surprise, the higher priority process waits for the lower priority process, which in turn waits for the middle priority process. The realtime model has just been broken because the process with the best priority lost its place in the scheduling queue to a process with lower priority. To make realtime scheduling really deterministic and attractive to use, a mechanism for temporary priority inheritance would need to be added. With priority inheritance in effect the process with lower priority should temporarily inherit the priority and the scheduling policy from the highest priority process waiting for space to become available in the pipe buffer. Similar logic will naturally be needed with semaphores and message queues if they ever get added to the system. Probably also file locks would deserve priority inheritance to be applied. Anyway, adding posix.4 scheduler interface was an interesting undertaking. And as usual, if it is worth anything, you can use it or abuse it. If it breaks, you can keep all the pieces. There is the condition though that the source has to be available for anyone who wishes to have it. (This time the stuff, has also the traditional BSD style disclaimer banner.) Cheers, // jau ------ / Jukka A. Ukkonen, FUNET / Centre for Scientific Computing /__ M.Sc. (sw-eng & cs) Tel: (Home) +358-0-6215280 / Internet: ukkonen@csc.fi (Work) +358-0-4573208 / Internet: jau@funet.fi (Mobile) +358-400-606671 v X.400: c=fi, admd=fumail, org=csc, pn=jukka.a.ukkonen ------------------------------ clip clip ------------------------------ # This is a shell archive. Save it in a file, remove anything before # this line, and then unpack it by entering "sh file". Note, it may # create directories; files and directories will be owned by you and # have default permissions. # # This archive contains: # # sched.h # sched_getparam.c # sched_getscheduler.c # sched_get_priority_max.c # sched_get_priority_min.c # sched_setparam.c # sched_setscheduler.c # sched_yield.c # Kernel.Diffs # RTprio.diffs # echo x - sched.h sed 's/^X//' >sched.h << 'END-of-sched.h' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#ifndef _SCHED_H X#define _SCHED_H X X#include X#include X#include /* For struct timespec */ X X#ifndef _POSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING X# define _POSIX_PRIORITY_SCHEDULING X#endif X X/* X * FIFO and Round-Robin must really be separate, but maybe X * it could be possible and worthwhile to try approximate FIFO X * using RR with higher priorities. X * X * RTP_PRIO_REALTIME with round-robin among equal priority X * processes at every time-quantum (= currently HZ/10) would X * still be only a poor substitute for fifo scheduling on X * systems that don't have a real fifo policy. X * X * Otherwise FIFO and RR are equivalent in all respects, but X * RR comes with involuntary release of CPU after the time X * quantum has passed. X * FIFO knows only about voluntary release of the CPU while X * the process can run as long as it wishes. So, you really X * can hang your machine, if there is no other process with X * higher RT-priority (FIFO or RR) ready to kill a infinitely X * looping FIFO process. X */ X X#ifdef RTP_PRIO_FIFO X# define SCHED_FIFO RTP_PRIO_FIFO X#else X# define SCHED_FIFO RTP_PRIO_REALTIME X#endif X X#define SCHED_RR RTP_PRIO_REALTIME X#define SCHED_TIMESHARE RTP_PRIO_NORMAL X#define SCHED_IDLE RTP_PRIO_IDLE X#define SCHED_OTHER SCHED_TIMESHARE X X/* X * Hopefully someone is interested enough to add X * the necessary deadline logic to the kernel. X */ X X#ifdef RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE X# define SCHED_DEADLINE RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE X#endif X Xstruct sched_param { X int sched_type; /* scheduling policy */ X int sched_priority; /* nice for time-share, else true prio */ X int sched_pgprio; /* pg-nice for TS, else unused */ X int sched_userprio; /* user-nice for TS, else unused */ X struct timespec sched_deadline; /* reserved for deadline scheduling */ X struct timespec sched_timereq; /* reserved for deadline scheduling */ X}; X X#endif END-of-sched.h echo x - sched_getparam.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_getparam.c << 'END-of-sched_getparam.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_getparam (pid, param) X pid_t pid; X struct sched_param *param; X{ X struct rtprio rtp; X X if (! param) { X errno = EINVAL; X return (-1); X } X X if (rtprio (RTP_LOOKUP, pid, &rtp) < 0) X return (-1); X X param->sched_type = rtp.type; X X if (rtp.type == RTP_PRIO_NORMAL) { X errno = 0; X X param->sched_priority = getpriority (PRIO_PROCESS, pid); X X if ((param->sched_priority == -1) && errno) X return (-1); X X param->sched_priority = -param->sched_priority; X X errno = 0; X X param->sched_pgprio = getpriority (PRIO_PGRP, pid); X X if ((param->sched_pgprio == -1) && errno) X return (-1); X X param->sched_pgprio = -param->sched_pgprio; X X errno = 0; X X param->sched_userprio = getpriority (PRIO_USER, pid); X X if ((param->sched_userprio == -1) && errno) X return (-1); X X param->sched_userprio = -param->sched_userprio; X } X else X param->sched_priority = RTP_PRIO_MAX - rtp.prio; X X return (0); X} END-of-sched_getparam.c echo x - sched_getscheduler.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_getscheduler.c << 'END-of-sched_getscheduler.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_getscheduler (pid) X pid_t pid; X{ X struct rtprio rtp; X X if (rtprio (RTP_LOOKUP, pid, &rtp) < 0) X return (-1); X X return ((int) rtp.type); X} END-of-sched_getscheduler.c echo x - sched_get_priority_max.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_get_priority_max.c << 'END-of-sched_get_priority_max.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_get_priority_max (policy) X int policy; X{ X switch (policy) { X X case SCHED_FIFO: X case SCHED_RR: X case SCHED_IDLE: X return (RTP_PRIO_MAX); X X case SCHED_TIMESHARE: X return (PRIO_MAX); X X default: X errno = EINVAL; /* Here is a gotcha! Always check errno! */ X return (-1); /* Whether negatives are valid is unspecified. */ X } X} X END-of-sched_get_priority_max.c echo x - sched_get_priority_min.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_get_priority_min.c << 'END-of-sched_get_priority_min.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_get_priority_max (policy) X int policy; X{ X switch (policy) { X X case SCHED_FIFO: X case SCHED_RR: X case SCHED_IDLE: X return (RTP_PRIO_MIN); X X case SCHED_TIMESHARE: X return (PRIO_MIN); X X default: X errno = EINVAL; /* Here is a gotcha! Always check errno! */ X return (-1); /* Whether negatives are valid is unspecified. */ X } X} X END-of-sched_get_priority_min.c echo x - sched_setparam.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_setparam.c << 'END-of-sched_setparam.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_setparam (pid, param) X pid_t pid; X struct sched_param *param; X{ X struct rtprio rtp; X X if (! param) { X errno = EINVAL; X return (-1); X } X X if (rtprio (RTP_LOOKUP, pid, &rtp) < 0) X return (-1); X X if (rtp.type == RTP_PRIO_NORMAL) { X if (setpriority (PRIO_PROCESS, pid, -param->sched_priority) < 0) X return (-1); X X if (setpriority (PRIO_PGRP, pid, -param->sched_pgprio) < 0) X return (-1); X X if (setpriority (PRIO_USER, pid, -param->sched_userprio) < 0) X return (-1); X X rtp.prio = 0; X } X else X rtp.prio = RTP_PRIO_MAX - param->sched_priority; X X if (rtprio (RTP_SET, pid, &rtp) < 0) X return (-1); X X return (0); X} END-of-sched_setparam.c echo x - sched_setscheduler.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_setscheduler.c << 'END-of-sched_setscheduler.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_setscheduler (pid, policy, param) X pid_t pid; X int policy; X struct sched_param *param; X{ X struct rtprio rtp; X X if (! param) { X errno = EINVAL; X return (-1); X } X X rtp.type = policy; X X if (policy == RTP_PRIO_NORMAL) { X if (setpriority (PRIO_PROCESS, pid, -param->sched_priority) < 0) X return (-1); X X if (setpriority (PRIO_PGRP, pid, -param->sched_pgprio) < 0) X return (-1); X X if (setpriority (PRIO_USER, pid, -param->sched_userprio) < 0) X return (-1); X X rtp.prio = 0; X } X else X rtp.prio = RTP_PRIO_MAX - param->sched_priority; X X if (rtprio (RTP_SET, pid, &rtp) < 0) X return (-1); X X return (0); X} END-of-sched_setscheduler.c echo x - sched_yield.c sed 's/^X//' >sched_yield.c << 'END-of-sched_yield.c' X/* X * Copyright (c) 1995,1996 Jukka Ukkonen X * X * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without X * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions X * are met: X * 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. X * 2. Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright X * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the X * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution. X * 3. All advertising materials mentioning features or use of this software X * must display the following acknowledgement: X * This product includes software developed by Jukka Antero Ukkonen. X * 4. Neither the names of the authors nor the names of contributors X * may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software X * without specific prior written permission. X * 5. The source code must be available for anyone who wishes to have it. X * X * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE AUTHORS AND CONTRIBUTORS ``AS IS'' AND X * ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE X * IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE X * ARE DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE AUTHORS OR CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE X * FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL X * DAMAGES (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS X * OR SERVICES; LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) X * HOWEVER CAUSED AND ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT X * LIABILITY, OR TORT (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY X * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF X * SUCH DAMAGE. X * X * %W% (Jukka Ukkonen) %E% X */ X X#ifndef lint Xstatic const char sccsid[] = "%W%\t(Jukka Ukkonen)\t%E%"; X#endif X X X#include X#include X#include X Xint Xsched_yield () X{ X struct timeval timeout; X X timeout.tv_sec = timeout.tv_usec = 0; X X /* X * Select a system call that will never hang waiting for X * something really happen to force an entry to the kernel. X * X * The entry to kernel code with zero timeout should cause X * a new scheduling decission to be made. X */ X X if ((select (0, NULL, NULL, NULL, &timeout) < 0) && (errno != EINTR)) X return (-1); X X return (0); X} X END-of-sched_yield.c echo x - Kernel.Diffs sed 's/^X//' >Kernel.Diffs << 'END-of-Kernel.Diffs' X--- /sys/kern/kern_resource.c.orig Tue May 30 11:05:39 1995 X+++ /sys/kern/kern_resource.c Mon Dec 25 20:52:30 1995 X@@ -247,8 +247,11 @@ X /* can't set realtime priority */ X if (rtp.type == RTP_PRIO_REALTIME) X return (EPERM); X+ if (rtp.type == RTP_PRIO_FIFO) X+ return (EPERM); X } X switch (rtp.type) { X+ case RTP_PRIO_FIFO: X case RTP_PRIO_REALTIME: X case RTP_PRIO_NORMAL: X case RTP_PRIO_IDLE: X--- /sys/kern/kern_synch.c.orig Tue May 30 11:05:44 1995 X+++ /sys/kern/kern_synch.c Tue Dec 26 16:23:20 1995 X@@ -67,8 +67,10 @@ X roundrobin(arg) X void *arg; X { X+ if (! curproc || curproc->p_rtprio.type != RTP_PRIO_FIFO) { X+ need_resched(); X+ } X X- need_resched(); X timeout(roundrobin, NULL, hz / 10); X } X X@@ -670,7 +672,11 @@ X p->p_usrpri = newpriority; X if (newpriority < curpriority) X need_resched(); X- } else { X+ } else if (! curproc || X+ (curproc->p_rtprio.type != RTP_PRIO_FIFO) || X+ (((p->p_rtprio.type == RTP_PRIO_FIFO) || X+ (p->p_rtprio.type == RTP_PRIO_REALTIME)) && X+ (p->p_rtprio.prio < curproc->p_rtprio.prio))) { X need_resched(); X } X } X--- /sys/sys/rtprio.h.orig Sun Oct 2 06:45:59 1994 X+++ /sys/sys/rtprio.h Mon Dec 25 20:48:18 1995 X@@ -42,7 +42,26 @@ X #define RTP_PRIO_REALTIME 0 X #define RTP_PRIO_NORMAL 1 X #define RTP_PRIO_IDLE 2 X+#define RTP_PRIO_FIFO 3 X X+/* X+ * RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM -- not implemented yet! X+ * Actually this is intended as another type X+ * of round-robin policy with the ability to X+ * allow processes request a non-default X+ * time-slice or time-quantum. X+ */ X+/* #define RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM 4 */ X+ X+/* X+ * RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE -- not implemented yet! X+ */ X+/* #define RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE 5 */ X+ X+/* X+ * Actual priority ranges should be changed X+ * to cover at least some 128 to 256 steps! X+ */ X /* priority range */ X #define RTP_PRIO_MIN 0 /* Highest priority */ X #define RTP_PRIO_MAX 31 /* Lowest priority */ X@@ -57,6 +76,10 @@ X struct rtprio { X u_short type; X u_short prio; X+#if defined(RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE) || defined(RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM) X+ struct timeval deadline; /* Fail if not ready to repeat. */ X+ struct timeval quantum; /* Min./required time slice. */ X+#endif X }; X #endif X X--- /sys/i386/i386/swtch.s.orig Tue Dec 26 14:19:25 1995 X+++ /sys/i386/i386/swtch.s Tue Dec 26 14:20:58 1995 X@@ -90,6 +90,9 @@ X X movzwl P_RTPRIO_PRIO(%eax),%edx X X+ cmpw $RTP_PRIO_FIFO,P_RTPRIO_TYPE(%eax) /* fifo rt priority? */ X+ je set_rt X+ X cmpw $RTP_PRIO_REALTIME,P_RTPRIO_TYPE(%eax) /* realtime priority? */ X jne set_id /* must be idle priority */ X X--- /sys/vm/vm_glue.c.orig Mon Oct 16 22:43:05 1995 X+++ /sys/vm/vm_glue.c Mon Dec 25 20:52:32 1995 X@@ -430,6 +430,9 @@ X /* X * do not swapout a realtime process X */ X+ if (p->p_rtprio.type == RTP_PRIO_FIFO) X+ continue; X+ X if (p->p_rtprio.type == RTP_PRIO_REALTIME) X continue; X X--- /usr/include/sys/rtprio.h.orig Sun Oct 2 06:45:59 1994 X+++ /usr/include/sys/rtprio.h Mon Dec 25 20:48:18 1995 X@@ -42,7 +42,26 @@ X #define RTP_PRIO_REALTIME 0 X #define RTP_PRIO_NORMAL 1 X #define RTP_PRIO_IDLE 2 X+#define RTP_PRIO_FIFO 3 X X+/* X+ * RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM -- not implemented yet! X+ * Actually this is intended as another type X+ * of round-robin policy with the ability to X+ * allow processes request a non-default X+ * time-slice or time-quantum. X+ */ X+/* #define RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM 4 */ X+ X+/* X+ * RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE -- not implemented yet! X+ */ X+/* #define RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE 5 */ X+ X+/* X+ * Actual priority ranges should be changed X+ * to cover at least some 128 to 256 steps! X+ */ X /* priority range */ X #define RTP_PRIO_MIN 0 /* Highest priority */ X #define RTP_PRIO_MAX 31 /* Lowest priority */ X@@ -57,6 +76,10 @@ X struct rtprio { X u_short type; X u_short prio; X+#if defined(RTP_PRIO_DEADLINE) || defined(RTP_PRIO_QUANTUM) X+ struct timeval deadline; /* Fail if not ready to repeat. */ X+ struct timeval quantum; /* Min./required time slice. */ X+#endif X }; X #endif X END-of-Kernel.Diffs echo x - RTprio.diffs sed 's/^X//' >RTprio.diffs << 'END-of-RTprio.diffs' X--- /usr/src/usr.sbin/rtprio/rtprio.c.orig Sun Oct 2 06:48:21 1994 X+++ /usr/src/usr.sbin/rtprio/rtprio.c Tue Dec 26 11:18:20 1995 X@@ -63,6 +63,10 @@ X X if (!strcmp(p, "rtprio")) X rtp.type = RTP_PRIO_REALTIME; X+#ifdef RTP_PRIO_FIFO X+ else if (!strcmp(p, "rtfifoprio")) X+ rtp.type = RTP_PRIO_FIFO; X+#endif X else if (!strcmp(p, "idprio")) X rtp.type = RTP_PRIO_IDLE; X X@@ -76,8 +80,13 @@ X perror(argv[0]); X exit (1); X } X+ X printf("%s: ", p); X+ X switch (rtp.type) { X+ case RTP_PRIO_FIFO: X+ printf("hard realtime fifo priority %d\n", rtp.prio); X+ break; X case RTP_PRIO_REALTIME: X printf("realtime priority %d\n", rtp.prio); X break; END-of-RTprio.diffs exit From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 06:01:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA05838 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:01:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from asstdc.scgt.oz.au (root@asstdc.scgt.oz.au [202.14.234.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA05829 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:01:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from imb@localhost) by asstdc.scgt.oz.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) id BAA00989; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:01:20 +1100 From: michael butler Message-Id: <199601281401.BAA00989@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> Subject: Re: ntp stuff? To: mal@sophocles.algonet.se (Mats Lofkvist) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:01:19 +1100 (EST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601281242.NAA25243@sophocles.algonet.se> from "Mats Lofkvist" at Jan 28, 96 01:42:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Mats Lofkvist writes: > ----/etc/ntp.conf---- > server 192.36.125.2 # sunic.sunet.se > server 194.68.128.19 prefer # Stockholm-DGIX.sunet.se > > driftfile /etc/ntp.drift To this you can add .. server 127.127.1.0 fudge 127.127.1.0 stratum 10 .. to cause the local clock to appear to a stratum 10 reference for those times that an external reference is unavailable through link outages. This is useful because things like wsntp used on Windoze will not synch to an unsynched clock. > # this is inoperative unless xntpd is enabled; NO to disable > tickadjflags="-Aq" > ... > (I also had to set TIMER_FREQ in my config file to make ntp not lose sync > after a few minutes due to too large drifts.) I usually "tweak" it using something like .. tickadjflags="-Aq -t 9998" .. which renders a clock with this sort of characteristic .. asstdc:~ % /usr/sbin/xntpdc xntpdc> sysi [ .. ] root distance: 0.07654 s root dispersion: 0.02525 s reference ID: [128.250.37.1] reference time: b4b5fcdb.52284000 Mon, Jan 29 1996 0:47:07.320 system flags: pll monitor stats frequency: 80.000 ppm stability: 54.296 ppm <--- a relative measure of "jitter" xntpdc> lo offset: 0.007506 s frequency: 9.935 ppm <--- anything < 128ppm is OK poll adjust: 24 watchdog timer: 254 s The actual number used for tickadj (9998 above) is machine-specific and derived by experimentation over many days .. michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 06:18:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA07472 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:18:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from plato.algonet.se (mail.algonet.se [193.12.207.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA07461 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:18:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from sophocles.algonet.se (mal@sophocles.algonet.se [193.12.207.10]) by plato.algonet.se (8.6.12/hdw.1.0) with ESMTP id PAA08765; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:18:33 +0100 Received: (from mal@localhost) by sophocles.algonet.se (8.6.12/hdw.1.0) id PAA04187; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:17:41 +0100 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:17:41 +0100 Message-Id: <199601281417.PAA04187@sophocles.algonet.se> From: Mats Lofkvist To: imb@scgt.oz.au CC: nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: <199601281401.BAA00989@asstdc.scgt.oz.au> (message from michael butler on Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:01:19 +1100 (EST)) Subject: Re: ntp stuff? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > (I also had to set TIMER_FREQ in my config file to make ntp not lose sync > > after a few minutes due to too large drifts.) > > I usually "tweak" it using something like .. > > tickadjflags="-Aq -t 9998" > > .. which renders a clock with this sort of characteristic .. I was told changing TIMER_FREQ was preferred because changing the tick would cause jumps in time. (I guessed this is because the time given between ticks is based on last tick + something using TIMER_FREQ. Correct?) _ Mats Lofkvist mal@algonet.se From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 07:12:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA13824 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:12:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA13781 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 07:12:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA13795; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:10:43 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199601281510.KAA13795@hda.com> Subject: Re: POSIX.4 scheduler interface for FreeBSD-2.1 To: jau@jau.csc.fi (Jukka Ukkonen) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:10:42 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601281231.OAA00704@jau.csc.fi> from "Jukka Ukkonen" at Jan 28, 96 02:31:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (...) Thanks Jukka. On a related note, can anyone think of anything that would break if all drivers used start queues that were priority queues based on real time priority instead of FIFO? Unrelated I/O would finish out of order but I can't see why that would matter. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 08:33:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA19910 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:33:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19902 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09506; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:32:42 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:32:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281632.LAA09506@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Smith From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >dennis stands accused of saying: >> >> >positive feedback. What is the "product of choice" for doing multi-port >> >> >async dial-in with Freebsd....as of the moment? >... >> >More that this is a really stupid list to be asking this question of. >> >You should be asking in -questions or -isp. Personally, right now I'd be >> >recommending the Stallion cards, as we have vendor support for them and >> >they're available world-wide. How many ports do you want? >> >> I disagree...this is a development list...if there are bugs in the drivers >> or they just dont work then its an issue on this list. > >But that's not the question you're asking. You want to know what people >are using. People using multiport cards are less likely to be here. not true....I want to know which ones WORK. If you're not using it then you dont know if it works.... Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 08:55:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA21781 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:55:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (aspen.woc.atinc.com [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21776 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:55:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA12857; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:54:26 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:54:24 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Joerg Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: sysexits.h. which EX_ to use In-Reply-To: <199601280943.KAA01284@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > MHO: EX_IOERR for read/write/fclose > EX_OSERR for fstat (stat'ing should always be possible if the > file exists) good. now what about an unlink(2) call. it can fail for several reasons. permissions (EPERM -> EX_NOPERM). access rights (EACCESS -> EX_NOPERM). bad arguments (ENOTDIR, EINVAL, ENAMETOOLONG, ENOENT -> EX_USAGE). excess number of symlinks (ELOOP -> EX_OSERR). well you get the idea. what should the program that calls unlink(2) use for err(2) ?? jmb Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 08:58:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA21872 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21867 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09526; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:57:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:57:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281657.LAA09526@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes.... >As Nate Williams wrote: >> >> [ Dennis's post ] >> >> > |>Flame bait ;-) >> > | >> > |only way to stir emotions in the passives. >> >> May I respectfully ask the members of the core team to consider banning >> Dennis from the mailing lists if he continues to posts like this. > >Dennis, do you have to tell us something to your defense? (I rather >think of a promise to stop this kind of postings in future, not of yet >another argumentation war.) Perhaps if you define the "kind" of posting that you're talking about? Ones that Nate doesnt like? Should I clear all of my postings with him before forwarding them to the list? I think that the fact that FreeBSDs (poor) dial-in capabilities are perhaps the single obstacle to much wider use are an issue for discussion. There are incredible inconsistancies in the "focus" of the core team, and if I'm going to abandon support for BSDI for Freebsd I have to be certain that the situation is workable. There is much discussion on nonsense like magazine articles and "exposure" for FreeBSD....yet there is weeks of discussion on writing drivers for ISDN when the regular modem stuff still doesnt work. It makes little sense to me. I made a "nice" post and no-one responded. Besides...you're free to not respond... the discussion on your reaction to my post is much more of a waste of time than a discussion of whether or not (and why) something as important as multiport hardware drivers are buggy. I think some good came out of it as well...as there seems to be at least 2 people willing to make the driver better and tackle the non-disclosure. What positives do you think will come out of your (and Nate's) discussion of "Dennis' behaviour"? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 09:01:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22047 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:01:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22042 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:01:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA09533; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:00:12 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:00:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281700.MAA09533@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hm@altona.hamburg.com From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>From the keyboard of dennis: > >> the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades >> board needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? > >As far as i understood it the situation is like this: the 2.1 driver has >some (please correct me if i'm wrong !!) problems and so Brian Litzinger >(sp?) wrote a replacement driver. This driver needs a) a hardware >modification in the plugs and b) need mgetty because the interlock between >incoming and outgoing calls is not done in the driver (so it must be done >with mgetty). a) and b) are not acceptable for my purposes. > >Someone else wrote that the -current Cyclades driver works fine. Has someone >backported the diffs to 2.1 or -stable yet ? > >Are there any _first-hand_ 2.1/-stable experiences with any Cyclades driver ? Which cyclades driver is this ( I understand they have multiple boards)? Has anyone seen (or touched) their new PCI board? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 09:06:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA22284 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (maelstrom.CC.McGill.CA [132.206.35.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA22279 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:06:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from yves@localhost) by maelstrom.cc.mcgill.ca (8.7.1/8.6.6) id MAA01643; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:03:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:03:40 -0500 (EST) From: Yves Lepage Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , John Dyson , hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <19327.822820861@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi Jordan, I was also disapointed with the lmbench talk. However, I'll be collecting my own set of numbers. I'll send them here when I have them. I have 2 identical PC's, one is running 2.1-stable and the other one is running solaris. We already know from the talk in which they compared sol-linux-freebsd that solaris is no match but it'll be interesting to see what lmbench has to say about it :-) Regards, Yves Lepage "How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?" -- SIR ARTHUR CONAN DOYLE 1859-1930 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 09:47:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23470 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:47:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23464 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:47:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA18411; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:44:52 +1100 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:44:52 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601281744.EAA18411@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: sysexits.h. which EX_ to use Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >MHO: EX_IOERR for read/write/fclose > EX_OSERR for fstat (stat'ing should always be possible if the > file exists) stat() usually fails because the file doesn't exist. This is likely to be a config error, not an "OS" error. You have to look at the errno if you want to be accurate. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 09:57:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA23889 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA23884 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 09:57:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id EAA18601; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:52:59 +1100 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 04:52:59 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601281752.EAA18601@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: imb@scgt.oz.au, mal@sophocles.algonet.se Subject: Re: ntp stuff? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, nate@sri.MT.net Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >I was told changing TIMER_FREQ was preferred because changing the tick >would cause jumps in time. (I guessed this is because the time given between >ticks is based on last tick + something using TIMER_FREQ. Correct?) Yes. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 10:23:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24561 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:23:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24556 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 10:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA19242; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 05:19:58 +1100 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 05:19:58 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601281819.FAA19242@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hm@altona.hamburg.com Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades >> board needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? >As far as i understood it the situation is like this: the 2.1 driver has >some (please correct me if i'm wrong !!) problems That was the 2.0.5 driver. Ancient history. >and so Brian Litzinger >(sp?) wrote a replacement driver. It was written before the 2.0.5 driver was imported from NetBSD. The original NetBSD driver was probably written first. >This driver needs a) a hardware >modification in the plugs and b) need mgetty because the interlock between >incoming and outgoing calls is not done in the driver (so it must be done >with mgetty). a) and b) are not acceptable for my purposes. It only needs mgetty if you want to do both incoming and outgoing calls. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 11:27:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26600 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:27:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from www.sbq.org.br ([143.106.26.99]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26558 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sbqadm@localhost) by www.sbq.org.br (8.6.12/FreeBSD2.1/8.6.12/SBQ) id RAA18205; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:27:15 GMT From: Sociedade Brasileira de Quimica/Admin Message-Id: <199601281727.RAA18205@www.sbq.org.br> Subject: SCSI Question To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:27:15 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello We have 4 servers and I'm having a little problem installing 2.1.0 in some of them: server 1) P100 with 2 (1G/850M) IDE drives, installed without any problems server 2) P100 wiht on board NCR SCSI adaptor, installed without problems but after reboot the message "Missing Operating System". Back to the boot.flp and forcing (W)rite in fdisk made it work server 3) P90 IBM with Adaptec 2942/W and IBM 1G HD, after some fight against the geometry installed fine but, again "Missing Operating System" and I have found no way to make it boot from the HD. I need to use the floppy and boot sd(0,a)/kernel instead server 4) The worst case :-(, this is an old DEC 486Dx/33 server with an Adaptec 1742 controller and two (450M sd0, 1.1G sd1) hard disks. This computer is running FreeBSD since 1.0 and I never had problems installing FreeBSD on it, yesterday I upgraded it from 2.0-pre-2.0.5-snap to 2.1.0 and I got the evil "Missing Operating System" again! I've tried all ways to make it bootable but as server (3) I need to boot using the floppy. What am I doing wrong? We have many IDE FreeBSD PCs here running 2.0.5 and 2.1.0 and I've followed the same installprocedure in all cases, is there any trick I'm missing to make this work ? Is there any way to correct this? Has anything subtle changed ? We can't stop the server (4) and it is running this way, I would like very much to correct the problem without reinstalling it. Romeu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 11:47:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA27387 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from jbrann (jbrann.dialup.access.net [166.84.193.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27381 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jbrann@localhost) by jbrann (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA07191 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:23:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281923.OAA07191@jbrann> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:21:47 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: <199601281249.EAA28294@freefall.freebsd.org> from "owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org" at Jan 28, 96 04:49:34 am From: John Brann Organisation: Not while I'm at home X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org wrote... > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:21:01 -0800 > Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff > > > I read the Lai/Baker paper: in "Figure 1", FreeBSD kicks some serious > > butt on context switches -- it appears to be both flat and linear past > > 200 processes (the limit of the graph in the figure). > > Actually, at a later talk it came out that Linux had substantially > improved this in the current release. However, both this talk and > Larry McVoy's talk that followed it were wastes of paper and time for > all concerned. > [remainder of Jordan's analysis removed] Before I get into the rest of this I'm going to set myself up as flame-bait. 1. I'm not a contributor to FreeBSD. I've been running it since last March, but I haven't contributed any software / hardware. I have been responsible for my share of dumbass questions. 2. As you can see from the above I don't subscribe to 'hackers' except as a skimmer of the digest. OK, that's done with. I downloaded and read the Lai/Baker paper. I agree that it was clearly shallow, but I don't think I've ever seen any worthwhile cross-OS or cross-machine performance comparisons. Anything beyond the grossest conclusions (Solaris seems a bit slow) are hard to be convincing about. What I read into the paper was; 1. Linux seems very fast as a standalone system. Much (more) kudos to Linus and his followers. 2. FreeBSD is also very fast, with some suggestion that there might be some things in the filesystem that would benefit from looking at. 3. Solaris bites. (This is influenced by personal prejudice, I run it at work). Something about this clearly got under Jordan's skin, and for the first time (and I do always try to read as much of his postings / e-mails as I can) I detected real irritation in his analysis. I'm disappointed in this, it jarrs with all those "do not get into that Linux vs. FreeBSD argument" articles of his. For what it's worth, here are my conclusions after almost a year following FreeBSD's fortunes. 1. FreeBSD is _behind_ Linux in support for many useful features - devices, threads, ELF and, no doubt, other things. 2. FreeBSD is _ahead_ of Linux in focus. For good or ill (and I think it's good) FreeBSD has a core team which, collectively, with leadership provided by the normally saintly Jordan, guides the system forward in a coherent fashion. I don't watch Linux closely, but the entry of commercialization will probably fragment the it even further than it has already gone. It's common to read in our mailing lists of people converting from Linux to FreeBSD. I don't know if the reverse can be read in the Linux groups and lists, but in any case, FreeBSD must be doing _something_ right. I believe that the very coherence and sense of common purpose which I see in the software and, almost without exception, in the mailing lists, allied to the fact that the system works so well and the ported / packaged applications are so good and extensive, are what's right. In the end I believe that people who choose operating systems for themselves, choose from a combination of logic, prejudice and serendipity and that logic is not often the prime consideration. In my own case I had never heard of FreeBSD until a week before my new home PC arrived. I had intended to run Linux on it, but I read an 'Ask Mr. Protocol' column in 'Sun Expert' magazine which talked about various free Unixes, and I was hooked on the FreeBSD story. After almost a year I wouldn't change from FreeBSD if you paid me - so I guess I'm as bad as Lai and Baker. What's my point? The virtues of FreeBSD are as much in the focus of the project and the community of its users as in the excellence of the software. Jordan's 'tantrum' (his word) goes against that focus and spirit of community (IMHO). I'd call this my ten-cents' worth, but I seem to have spent a dollar's worth of bandwidth. John. -- Difficult conversations with great figures of history: 3. Winston Churchill: "Excuse me, this is the no-smoking section." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 11:50:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA27555 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:50:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27544 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:50:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601281950.LAA27544@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Sociedade Brasileira de Quimica/Admin cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:27:15 GMT." <199601281727.RAA18205@www.sbq.org.br> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:50:52 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hello > We have 4 servers and I'm having a little problem installing >2.1.0 in some of them: > >server 2) P100 wiht on board NCR SCSI adaptor, installed without problems >but after reboot the message "Missing Operating System". Back to the >boot.flp and forcing (W)rite in fdisk made it work This is a geometry problem, but I can't tell you the proper geometry for these controllers. Perhaps Stephan knows. You can always create a partition using DOS fdisk, and the FreeBSD installer will use those values when creating partitions during install (you can even delete the DOS partition during the FreeBSD install -- its only needed to grab the geometry from). >server 3) P90 IBM with Adaptec 2942/W and IBM 1G HD, after some fight >against the geometry installed fine but, again "Missing Operating System" >and I have found no way to make it boot from the HD. I need to use >the floppy and boot sd(0,a)/kernel instead Again, a geometry problem. The proper geometry to use is the controller's translated geometry. For the 27/28/'294x cards, this is: Extended translation enabled in SCSI-Select: If the disk is > 1gig, 255 Heads/63 Sectors per track/#MB reported by disk probe/7 cylinders example. A 2100MB disk would take 25/64/300 in the G)eometry box If the disk is <= 1gig, same as with Extended translation disabled Extended translation disabled: 64 heads/32 sectors per track/#MB reported by disk probe cylinders example. A 500MB disk would take 64/32/500 in the G)eometry box. A 1200MB disk would take 64/32/1200 in the G)eometry box. You will have to re-install to correct the problem. >server 4) The worst case :-(, this is an old DEC 486Dx/33 server with an >Adaptec 1742 controller and two (450M sd0, 1.1G sd1) hard disks. >This computer is running FreeBSD since 1.0 and I never had problems >installing FreeBSD on it, yesterday I upgraded it from 2.0-pre-2.0.5-snap >to 2.1.0 and I got the evil "Missing Operating System" again! >I've tried all ways to make it bootable but as server (3) I need to >boot using the floppy. Same as for the 27/28/294X except some versions of the 1742 don't have an extended translation mode. >We can't stop the server (4) and it is running this way, I would >like very much to correct the problem without reinstalling it. You'll have to in order to correct the problem. >Romeu -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 12:19:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28762 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:19:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from husky.cslab.vt.edu (jaitken@husky.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.87]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28756 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:19:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (jaitken@localhost) by husky.cslab.vt.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) id PAA23783 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:19:18 -0500 From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199601282019.PAA23783@husky.cslab.vt.edu> Subject: what does this mean To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:19:17 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We've got a student here who has installed FreeBSD with no problem, but when he reboots the machine, he gets the following error: --snip-- (immediately after the 'Regents of University of California' message) Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xf025e fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8: 0xf0198002 code segment = base 0x0 limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 0 () interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault hit reset please --snip-- Can anyone shed some light on this? I'm afraid I can't make any sense of the error. Please cc me with the response as I'm not currently subscribed to freebsd-hackers. Thanks! -- Jeff Aitken Lab Manager jaitken@cs.vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 12:21:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28925 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28920 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:21:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id VAA00796; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:15:16 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00484; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:10:24 +0100 (MET) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:10:23 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: dennis cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601271740.MAA07892@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, dennis wrote: > This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've answered my > question......Its the final straw I think in making FreeBSD > marketable...obviously > the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades > board > needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? Dennis, a real ISP buys a fine Terminal Server to handle several Modem lines. Something like a Livingston Portmaster isn't too expensive for a real ISP. Many Modem lines produce many Interrupts. Outsource this job to another piece of hardware as an Terminal server. Let FreeBSD be a good server machine for www an such. -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 12:51:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00370 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from io.org (io.org [198.133.36.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00365 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 12:51:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mnewton.newland.com (mnewton.net5a.io.org [199.166.190.83]) by io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA06700 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:51:20 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:51:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199601282051.PAA06700@io.org> X-Sender: mnewton@io.org (Unverified) X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: mnewton@io.org (Malcolm Newton) Subject: ip addresses for ed0 and sl0 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk We finally have a BSD pc hooked up to the net via ISDN (with a motorola bit surfer ($300)) and set to the .1 of our class c IP. How do I set up the ifconfig's for ed0 and sl0. I want to have a local pc on the network route out to the internet via .1 . This pc is .4. I then want to have a slip dialin and allocate that .5 . What do I need for route add commands? I have tried a few combinations but none seem to work?? Malcolm Newton President mnewton@io.org http://www.io.org/~mnewton VisiSoft Corp 2145 Dunwin Dr unit 11, Mississauga,Ont. Can L5L 4L9 (905) 607 6263 (905) 607 6122 fax From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:14:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01369 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01364 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA22021; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:12:41 -0800 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:57:18 EST." <199601281657.LAA09526@etinc.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:12:41 -0800 Message-ID: <22019.822863561@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > There are incredible inconsistancies in the "focus" of the core team, and if Dennis, Our "focus" is driven largely by what people do for us. A bunch of hackers in Germany decide they want ISDN, they hack on it. I have a vested interest, being an ISDN user myself, and so perhaps I talk about it a little more. An incorrect focus? I don't think so. I think this is just the natural brownian motion that accompanies any group of volunteers. People do what they WANT to do. As to the focus on serial drivers in general, you're pretty wrong if you think they're not important to us or that we haven't spent a lot of time trying to improve the situation. At least 3 core members have spent quite a bit of time with Cyclades in ironing out support for their cards, I've got about 27 calls into Digiboard which have failed to net much support, and I was the one pushing aggressively for ARNET (now Digi) support and got John Hay the boards he used to do the port. In comparison to what I've focused on with the rest of the system, I'd say that multiport serial cards have occupied more of my time than anything else. Like many things, we need help. Since you're making money off of us now, perhaps you'd consider a donation? The full details on how to do this are in http://www.freebsd.org/submitters.html. We can always use hardware or funds to buy hardware in expanding our support for all types of peripherals. It's a two-way street, Dennis! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:14:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01399 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01386 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA14817; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:14:37 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA06738 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:14:15 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16726 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:18:42 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id OAA11008; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:32:49 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601281332.OAA11008@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Rock Ridge CDs, dir depth limits To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:32:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601271938.UAA24323@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 27, 96 08:37:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > > > I assume you're using a Philips writer? > > > No, it is a x4 Yamaha (CDR100?). Will post the endresult > > Hmm, the Yamaha will require some more work. It has an entirely > different command set than the Kodak/Philips/HP/Plasmon drives. > > Have a look at my just commited driver changes. Well, you should > really see to get a SCSI reference from Yamaha. Alas, that ain't that > easy as it is for other vendors. The last i've seen from them is that > they have been asking for some sheet of paper with ``Estimated sales > volume'', ``Size of your company'' and other crap. Perhaps you could > threaten them that all their competitors are giving this information > away either freely or at a small cost, without asking that much > useless things. > cheers, J"org Since the CDR is wired to an Alpha machine and the only FreeBSD machine at work is my own workstation I think I'll be only generating the images on FBSD and actually write these images to the CD with the AXP. Don't expect experiments with the Yamaha and FBSD, I have other things to do when at work :} Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:17:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01634 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:17:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01612 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA22033; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:22 -0800 To: Sociedade Brasileira de Quimica/Admin cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI Question In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:27:15 GMT." <199601281727.RAA18205@www.sbq.org.br> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:14:22 -0800 Message-ID: <22031.822863662@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > server 2) P100 wiht on board NCR SCSI adaptor, installed without problems > but after reboot the message "Missing Operating System". Back to the Geometry is misconfigured. > server 3) P90 IBM with Adaptec 2942/W and IBM 1G HD, after some fight > against the geometry installed fine but, again "Missing Operating System" Geometry is misconfigured. > installing FreeBSD on it, yesterday I upgraded it from 2.0-pre-2.0.5-snap > to 2.1.0 and I got the evil "Missing Operating System" again! Geometry is misconfigured. :-) You really really need to read the documentation on installing the system. It gives a number of tips on how to configure your geometry correctly. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:23:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01886 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:23:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01878 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA01470; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:19:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282119.OAA01470@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:19:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <24115.822812401@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 27, 96 11:00:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > BTW, the server doesn't use pixmaps with the shared memory extension. > > > It uses XImages. > > > > You can't avoid having to do the conversion. > > I understand that - I simply wanted to make the point that it wasn't > pixmap information being "wired", but XImage information. Check the > X11 protocol spec - there's a predefined low-level data type for > XImages (and Pixmaps are only passed by integer ID anyway). I realize the intended format of the shared memory region that the server will access. I don't believe that the mapped capture card memory can be made to resemble the region except for very special cards. As Amancio points out, a bus mastering frame grabber gould utilize DGA to write video card memory, with a lot of caveats. Personally, I'd like to see it eating an extra copy and working on all hardware rather than using DGA and working on 1/10th of all hardware. Not that I have an mbone connection anyway. 8-(. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:28:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02148 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02127 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:28:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA01493; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:24:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282124.OAA01493@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:24:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <28161.822813031@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 27, 96 11:10:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > But that object can't be exported as a shared memory region of a type > > the server can understand, since the layout won't match that of the > > Xshm protocol. > > Maybe I really am missing the boat, but I'm still having a hard time > understanding that if (and forgive me if I resort to pseudo- code - > it's been a long week): > > fbmem = mmap(.. blah ..) > shmid = shmget(.. some memory chunk size and allocation info ..) > ximage->data = shmat(shmid, 0, 0); > bcopy(fbmem, ximage->data, ..size..) > > Works *just fine*, e.g. the ximage data is happy to point at the > memory allocated by shmget and I can bcopy straight into this region > from the frame buffer, sans any special offsets or conversion, then > how can: > > fbmem = mmap(.. blah ..) > shmid = shmget(.. no memory please, just an entry ..) > ximage->data = shmat(shmid, fbmem, 0); > > work when shmget() doesn't support any such semantics? It seems like > that would be the minimum level of hacking required to even give this > a ghost's chance of working. You can support those semantics for mmap using a pseudo device to actually establish "just an entry" given the normal mmap argument space. This is still a kludge because you still have two sets of memory that can't be reconciled: the physical memory on the video capture card, and the physical memory on the display card. You *can't* map them to the same location. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:30:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02295 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02288 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA22082; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:28:56 -0800 To: John Brann cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:21:47 EST." <199601281923.OAA07191@jbrann> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:28:56 -0800 Message-ID: <22080.822864536@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Something about this clearly got under Jordan's skin, and for the first > time (and I do always try to read as much of his postings / e-mails as > I can) I detected real irritation in his analysis. I'm disappointed in OK, I'll take this in several parts. First off, I don't think that you can really appreciate the overall impact or style of delivery in the presentation merely from reading the proceedings. Words that often sound perfectly reasonable on paper are anything but when presented from a pulpit, and if you sit through 43 minutes of presentation only to have the conclusions tossed out in the last 2 minutes then it's going to be a far more jarring and disturbing experience. Second, I think you may have missed my essential point. I expected these people to present their research and allow the audience to draw its own conclusions, not attempt to wrap it up with their personal agendas (which Larry didn't even make an effort to hide - I'm not just firing wild accusations of agenda here) and mix politics with research. They don't mix very well at all, and in the case of these two papers it wasn't even a particularly good *attempt* at mixing them. They started like research papers and ended like infomercials. Give me one or the other, please, but not both! This also has nothing to do with the larger issue of "FreeBSD vs Linux" - my stance on that remains unchanged. I have no bone to pick with Linux users or their OS and I'm perfectly happy to see them evangelise it to the heavens; more power to 'em! What I fervently dislike are attempts to disguise such evangelism as something else. It's wholly unnecessary subterfuge and does not increase my respect for those who engage in it. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 13:34:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02531 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02524 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:34:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA01511; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:29:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282129.OAA01511@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:29:24 -0700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199601280750.XAA00879@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jan 27, 96 11:50:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > 3. I can spot graphic cards which don't support a linear buffer or don't > have the linear buffer mmap and in such cases just exit out of tv > or resort to the shared memory method. Resort to the shared memory method, please. Makes it much more widely available! > The changes required to support wiring the graphic card's buffer > to the meteor driver are minimal. How do you deal with bus-to-bus DMA cache effects? It seems likely that this type of usage is one that wasn't considered by the motherboard manufacturers... considering how many of them have blown simple bus-to-memory DMA cache update/invalidate. > *First* phase at high speed video just raw dump on the screen. > *Second phase port the xvideo extensions to XFree86 and > make necessary changes to the X server. That's sexy -- a draggable video window -- resizable as well? Are you going to put scaling in the copy? > Now, for the religious X cult fans if they don't like this approach > they can always resort to a shared buffer access at the cost of > lower performance. Or those of us with less than $10,000 in video hardware. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:04:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04079 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:04:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04073 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:04:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA00341; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:03:36 -0800 cc: dennis@etinc.com (dennis), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 13:12:41 PST." <22019.822863561@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:03:35 -0800 Message-ID: <339.822866615@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > In comparison to what I've focused on with the rest of the system, I'd > say that multiport serial cards have occupied more of my time than > anything else. Following up to my own message here, I just thought I'd clarify the above by saying that by "system" in this context, I was referring to "system device drivers." I don't think I've spent quite so much time on multiport serial cards as I have, say, release tools.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:04:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04104 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:04:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04098 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:04:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id XAA04058; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:00:55 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601282200.XAA04058@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:00:55 +0100 (MET) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, terry@lambert.org, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199601282129.OAA01511@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 28, 96 02:29:05 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > *First* phase at high speed video just raw dump on the screen. > > *Second phase port the xvideo extensions to XFree86 and > > make necessary changes to the X server. > > That's sexy -- a draggable video window -- resizable as well? Are you > going to put scaling in the copy? Dragging the image just requires changing the DMA address of the frame grabber. Scaling up/down is done in hardware by the Meteor, at no extra cost. Actually, it helps a lot in saving memory bandwidth if you limit to small images. > > Now, for the religious X cult fans if they don't like this approach > > they can always resort to a shared buffer access at the cost of > > lower performance. > > Or those of us with less than $10,000 in video hardware. 8-). Make it US$500, the price of the Meteor. I think it has a good price/performance ratio because it has a very low chip count, *and* thanks to the PCI interface it does not need to have on-board memory, interface to the Video Feature Extension etc. A low end S3 (like mine :-) costs less than US$150. And since the CPU is not involved in the data transfer, all you need is a PCI motherboard. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:09:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04400 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb8.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA04385 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:09:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA22784 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:10:21 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199601282210.XAA22784@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Searching LCC users/hackers ... To: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:10:21 +0100 (MET) Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Back in june there was talk about the LCC compiler, and I got mail from a couble of interested parties. Well now I've found my old patches and put them into the 3.4B release with support for both static & shared libs. I've also done a fair bit of work getting it to understand long longs (ie 64bit ints), to be honest I can declare a variable and store a value in it, but its a start.. The reason for this letter is that I lost my old mail (or rather cannot find the backup tape) so I've lost the names of the interested parties.. So, anybody out there still interested in LCC ??? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:14:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04736 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:14:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04731 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:14:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01665; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:13:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282213.PAA01665@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: jbrann@panix.com (John Brann) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:13:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601281923.OAA07191@jbrann> from "John Brann" at Jan 28, 96 02:21:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > I read the Lai/Baker paper: in "Figure 1", FreeBSD kicks some serious > > > butt on context switches -- it appears to be both flat and linear past > > > 200 processes (the limit of the graph in the figure). > > > > Actually, at a later talk it came out that Linux had substantially > > improved this in the current release. However, both this talk and > > Larry McVoy's talk that followed it were wastes of paper and time for > > all concerned. > > [remainder of Jordan's analysis removed] > I downloaded and read the Lai/Baker paper. I agree that it was clearly > shallow, but I don't think I've ever seen any worthwhile cross-OS or > cross-machine performance comparisons. Anything beyond the grossest > conclusions (Solaris seems a bit slow) are hard to be convincing about. Jordan's problem seems to have been with the presentation, and the conclusions drawn in the presentation but not present in the paper. If Jordan were merely attacking the paper, I'd agree with you, but since it is the presentation of the paper, neither you nor I can really comment on Jordan's statements other than to take them as an honest report of the presentation. As far as my opinion of the paper, well, at least part of it is on record in the pipe code discussion. That said, if it didn't show up for you, Larry McVoy has a well known Linux bias, but I would guess it was his enthusiasm, not intellectual dishonesty, that caused him to ignore the hardware differences in his paper. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:16:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04967 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04937 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01682; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:15:23 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282215.PAA01682@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:15:23 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, hm@altona.hamburg.com In-Reply-To: <199601281819.FAA19242@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 29, 96 05:19:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >This driver needs a) a hardware > >modification in the plugs and b) need mgetty because the interlock between > >incoming and outgoing calls is not done in the driver (so it must be done > >with mgetty). a) and b) are not acceptable for my purposes. > > It only needs mgetty if you want to do both incoming and outgoing calls. The calling unit/non-calling unit device interlock (even though I disagree with using that approach to line sharing) is a trivial fix. The use of mgetty is evil because of assumptions made by mgetty, independent of which driver it is used on. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:23:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05528 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05510 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:22:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01704; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:19:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282219.PAA01704@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: POSIX.4 scheduler interface for FreeBSD-2.1 To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:19:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: jau@jau.csc.fi, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601281510.KAA13795@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 28, 96 10:10:42 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > (...) > > Thanks Jukka. > > On a related note, can anyone think of anything that would break > if all drivers used start queues that were priority queues based > on real time priority instead of FIFO? > > Unrelated I/O would finish out of order but I can't see why that > would matter. Windows 95 reenables interrupts immediately after queueing a descriptor for servicing. It seems that their code has much less effective latency for interleaved events because of this. This type of approach would lend itself to this type of driver capability. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:37:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07293 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:37:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07284 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:37:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA00633; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:35:55 -0800 Message-Id: <199601282235.OAA00633@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@freebsd.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Amancio's tv program with capture! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:29:24 MST." <199601282129.OAA01511@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:35:54 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>> Terry Lambert said: > > 3. I can spot graphic cards which don't support a linear buffer or don't > > have the linear buffer mmap and in such cases just exit out of tv > > or resort to the shared memory method. > > Resort to the shared memory method, please. Makes it much more widely > available! > > > The changes required to support wiring the graphic card's buffer > > to the meteor driver are minimal. > > How do you deal with bus-to-bus DMA cache effects? It seems likely > that this type of usage is one that wasn't considered by the > motherboard manufacturers... considering how many of them have blown > simple bus-to-memory DMA cache update/invalidate. Should be interesting at any rate, I wouldn't mind posting on comp.sys.intel the broken motherboards provided of course that there are any. The verdict is out on this one and yes you have the right to be suspicious ... I just need to find the time to sit down and write the code and it shouldn't take more than 1/2 day to implement the the first phase. > > *First* phase at high speed video just raw dump on the screen. > > *Second phase port the xvideo extensions to XFree86 and > > make necessary changes to the X server. > > That's sexy -- a draggable video window -- resizable as well? Are you > going to put scaling in the copy? Terry, the meteor can do scaling as well as the S3 968 class of video cards. On the meteor side, we can close the meteor and re-open it with a new geometry. By doing on the meteor side of things we increase the possibility of the scaling working for cards other than S3 968 class. So the answer is yes! > > Now, for the religious X cult fans if they don't like this approach > > they can always resort to a shared buffer access at the cost of > > lower performance. > > Or those of us with less than $10,000 in video hardware. 8-). Or you can buy a o Matrox meteor PCI video $495 o S3 968 based card with 4MB of VRAM about $400 o a video camera $500 --- or for less you can get a ccd camera So give or take about $1400 provided of course that you already don't have an S3 968 PCI card and video camera, if so the cost is just $495. A lot less than $10000 8) Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:44:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07781 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:44:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA07776 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:44:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA02142; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:41:56 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601282241.QAA02142@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:41:56 -0600 (CST) Cc: dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Jan 28, 96 08:10:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, dennis wrote: > > This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've answered my > > question......Its the final straw I think in making FreeBSD > > marketable...obviously > > the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades > > board > > needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? > > Dennis, a real ISP buys a fine Terminal Server to handle several > Modem lines. Something like a Livingston Portmaster isn't too > expensive for a real ISP. Portmasters are junk. If you're going to get a specialized terminal server, buy an Annex. Or better yet,.... > Many Modem lines produce many Interrupts. Outsource this job to > another piece of hardware as an Terminal server. Let FreeBSD be > a good server machine for www an such. Use a FreeBSD box as a terminal server. Sheesh. Cheaper, easier, and spare parts are available at the corner store. I don't have ANY specialized terminal servers, routers, etc. here at sol.net.... everything runs FreeBSD and everything runs extremely well. It's very comforting knowing that in an emergency I can cover my needs within a very short period of time by either pressing other machines into double duty or simply buying new components. I've been offline for a few days now, and I'm just coming into this, but I don't know what everybody is making such a big stink about. FreeBSD works fine for dial-in applications. It has for years. Since 1.0. I moved Solaria's dial-in lines to a 386DX/16 with 4 16550 ports running FreeBSD 1.0 way back when, and I was incredibly impressed with the throughput and low CPU loading (much of which is thanks to the 16550, Suns don't have buffered serial ports). It didn't support bidir. But it did do dial-in just fine. I have yet to see a variant of FreeBSD that failed to perform admirably in this respect. I've had good experiences with serial cards designed for use with Galacticomm's "MajorBBS" and several other cards. The one questionable unit I've seen is the BocaBoard 2016. I have a lingering problem every few weeks where the interrupt line gets stuck low and can't be cleared. Unfortunately the motherboard currently in use on the box with the BB2016 doesn't handle resets correctly and it wedges on a reboot - else I would say that the board is "reliable enough" because it's easy to detect when the interrupt line gets stuck, and I could have an automated test-n-reboot if it weren't for the bad reset.. Basically I think that any sio-driven card with full modem handshaking should be very adequate. What about Digiboard, Specialix, etc.? I don't know. I don't have any intelligent cards. But with the cost of a 486DX4/120 motherboard being around $200, I don't see a real problem letting my terminal servers take the interrupt hits. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:50:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08156 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:50:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08151 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01758; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:47:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282247.PAA01758@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: POSIX.4 scheduler interface for FreeBSD-2.1 To: jau@jau.csc.fi (Jukka Ukkonen) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:47:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601281231.OAA00704@jau.csc.fi> from "Jukka Ukkonen" at Jan 28, 96 02:31:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > What is the benefit of having separate realtime policies at all, > if there still is the possibility of a problem known as priority > inversion? > E.g. a process with relatively high (realtime) priority wishes to > communicate with another process with worse priority using a pipe > in which there is no free buffer space available. Now the process > with higher priority would have to wait for the process with lower > priority to read from the pipe to make room for the data to be > written by the higher priority process. While waiting for the > buffer to drain the process with higher priority could become > pre-empted by a process which has its priority somewhere between > the priorities of the communicating processes. > And so we see the grand surprise, the higher priority process waits > for the lower priority process, which in turn waits for the middle > priority process. The realtime model has just been broken because > the process with the best priority lost its place in the scheduling > queue to a process with lower priority. The typical soloution for this is to have a real and effective priority and/or priority class for each process. When a high priority process is blocked on a resource, the resource holder has his effective priority advanced from his real priority to the effective priority of the high priority process. The effective rather than the real priority of the high priority process is used because it may, in turn, be blocking a resource for an even higher priority process. Scheduling policy is set by real priority and implemented by effective priority. This soloution is called "priority lending". Lending introduces another potential problem, since the low priority process may only acquire and unacquire the scarce resource. That means that the low priority process could buzz at the lent priority, preventing other processes from running. This means that resource release mechanisms musth have the capability of causing a context switch of a process releasing a resource if there is a higher priority wait on the resource. This is accomplished by setting a priority field on the resource equal to the max of the former (or default, if no former) and the real priority of each blocker. This is the "release priority" and is used in two ways: 1) If the release priority is higher than the real priority of the releasing process, that process is involuntarily context switched. This prevents buzz-loop monopolization of a resource. 2) If a context switch takes place, the context switch will be a "switch and release". On the release, the wakeup will be via priority preference instead of thundering herd. There are a number of associated issues, dealing with FIFO ordering of equaly priority processes for wakeup() vs. wakeone() processing that I will gloss over at this time. When a context switch takes place, it must be determined if the released resource should cause the lent priority to be retacted. This still leaves the possiblity of deadlock, as in any IPC situation, but allows the high priority. This is, I think, a problem we can ignore, though if we wish to deal with this, internally, the kernel resource locking must be a hiearchical graph over which we compute transitive closure to prevent deadlock (as opposed to detecting it). This is similar to the resource issues in an SMP or kernel multithreading situation. A full soloution based on this approach would require a FILO (stack) based pushing of priority, since low priority process A may block medium priority process B's resource and be lent B's priority, only to later block high priority process C's resource. So A is lent B's priority, then C's. If A then releases C's resource, his effective priroity is returned to A's real priority instead of the priority lent by B (and B is screwed). To handle this, the resource would have to own the queue, and the entry would have to have the desiring process as well as the lent priority (or just the desiring process, from which you could look up the lent priority). The FIFO ordering in #2 above would then need to be able to have insertionby priority, so there would be multiple entries into the FIFO (these could be an AVL tree, or bsearched for initial priority cahnge and linearly traversed to find the actual change point for the insertion). Priority inversion is a non-trivial problem. 8-). I recommend both "UNIX For Modern Architectures" and "UNIX Internals: The New Frontiers" for advanced discussion of priority inversion. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 14:59:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08565 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:59:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08559 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:59:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01785; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:57:11 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282257.PAA01785@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:57:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601280246.EAA23330@newzetor.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jan 28, 96 04:46:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > mgetty would be useful as it can > actively reply calls instead of modems answering automatically, thus > avoiding callers getting modem answer when the terminal server has crashed > and won't be there. A properly configured modem and getty will do this as well. A properly configured modem will not answer unless DTR is asserted. DTR is asserted by the first open on a port (ie: getty). When the session is completed and a HUP delivered to all processes in the process group, the top level shell goes away, and without a group leader, the tty is revoked. So any process that listens to SIGHUP is dead and any process which does not is now in the background (there is some weird stuff with /dev/tty that I don't want the get into here). When the open count coes from 1->0, the DTR is dropped. This causes a correctly configured modem to reset (reset on on-to-off transition of DTR). Init restarts the getty, and the open is delayed by a proper driver so if the getty comes back too rapidly, the DTR is still low long enough for the modem to reset (usually, the delay period is >= 250mS, per Bell 103C signalling). When a modem resets, it drops the call (if any). If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 15:00:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08666 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:00:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08623 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:00:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA01800; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:58:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601282258.PAA01800@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Searching LCC users/hackers ... To: sos@FreeBSD.ORG Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:58:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601282210.XAA22784@DeepCore.dk> from "Søren Schmidt" at Jan 28, 96 11:10:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Back in june there was talk about the LCC compiler, and I got mail > from a couble of interested parties. Well now I've found my old > patches and put them into the 3.4B release with support for both > static & shared libs. I've also done a fair bit of work getting it > to understand long longs (ie 64bit ints), to be honest I can declare > a variable and store a value in it, but its a start.. > > The reason for this letter is that I lost my old mail (or rather cannot > find the backup tape) so I've lost the names of the interested parties.. > > So, anybody out there still interested in LCC ??? Can you build a kernel with it? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 15:31:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10304 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10297 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA26105 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:31:30 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA12447 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:31:30 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id XAA03630 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:26:38 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601282226.XAA03630@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sysexits.h. which EX_ to use To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:26:37 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601281744.EAA18411@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 29, 96 04:44:52 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > > EX_OSERR for fstat (stat'ing should always be possible if the > > file exists) > > stat() usually fails because the file doesn't exist. The file for fstat() should always exist as long fd is a valid file descriptor: j@uriah 643% cat > foo.c #include #include #include #include #include int main(void) { struct stat s; int fd; fd = open("foobar", O_CREAT, 0666); unlink("foobar"); if(fstat(fd, &s) == -1) { perror("fstat()"); return 1; } else { printf("fstat() result: mode 0%o, inode %d\n", s.st_mode, s.st_ino); } return 0; } j@uriah 644% cc foo.c j@uriah 645% ./a.out fstat() result: mode 0100644, inode 324 -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 15:32:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10353 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10347 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:32:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA26129 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:32:05 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA12459 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:32:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id XAA03735 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:38:22 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601282238.XAA03735@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: sysexits.h. which EX_ to use To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:38:22 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jan 28, 96 11:54:24 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jonathan M. Bresler wrote: > > good. now what about an unlink(2) call. Well, don't be too picky. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 15:44:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11236 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11231 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:44:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA10194; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:43:59 -0800 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:43:58 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Joe Greco cc: Andreas Klemm , dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601282241.QAA02142@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > Portmasters are junk. If you're going to get a specialized terminal > server, buy an Annex. Or better yet,.... I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind the claim that portmasters are junk. We kind of went the other way, and bailed on multiport serial cards, with the assorted hassles and such, and went to the portmaster, and they've been a dream. If I could solve my RAID box/FreeBSD 2.1.0 problem, I'd be completely FreeBSD as well. The argument about spare parts is specious at best, Anybody in this business in any serious way has spare parts out the wazoo... From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 16:22:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA13723 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13684 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:21:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA27226; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:21:47 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA13354; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:21:47 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id BAA04536; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:07:53 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601290007.BAA04536@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: what does this mean To: jaitken@cslab.vt.edu (Jeff Aitken) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:07:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601282019.PAA23783@husky.cslab.vt.edu> from "Jeff Aitken" at Jan 28, 96 03:19:17 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Jeff Aitken wrote: > > We've got a student here who has installed FreeBSD with no problem, but > when he reboots the machine, he gets the following error: > Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode > instruction pointer = 0x8: 0xf0198002 Which kernel? The kernel.GENERIC from 2.1R? Otherwise, we'd need the output of ``nm /kernel | sort | more'' around address 0xf0198002. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 16:25:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14052 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:25:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14042 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA27252; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:21:58 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA13359; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:21:57 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id AAA04467; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:57:42 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601282357.AAA04467@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI Question To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:57:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: sbqadm@sbq.org.br Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601281950.LAA27544@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Jan 28, 96 11:50:52 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Justin T. Gibbs wrote: > > >We can't stop the server (4) and it is running this way, I would > >like very much to correct the problem without reinstalling it. > > You'll have to in order to correct the problem. Well, you don't really _need_ to re-install, but it's highly recommended, and you need a double-net if you wanna correct it ``on the fly''. Basically, what happens is the following: |<--------------------------->| | Last | size of a cylinder as the | | ficticous | FreeBSD installation ass- | | cylinder | umed the BIOS would use | | boundary V V V +-+--------------+------------+---------------------- ... ---+-------+ |M| Padded unuse|d space, to |FBSD | un- | |B| remain compa|tible with |boot FreeBSD | used | |R| other system|s | | | +-+--------------+------------+---------------------- ... ---+-------+ ^ ^ | size of a cyl- | | inder as your | | BIOS thinks | |<-------------->| The BIOS is told to boot off cylinder 1, sector 1, head 0. As you can see above, if the ideas of FreeBSD's sysinstall and the BIOS about the size of a (ficticous) cylinder disagree, the Master Boot Record won't find the boot sector of the operating system, and since it misses the boot signature (0x55, 0xaa in the last two bytes of the first sector of the o/s), it prints this ``Missing operating system'' message. However, everything above marked as ``FreeBSD'' is intact, as you can observe when booting from floppy. So if you really don't mind the potential danger, you could re-calculate the values in the MBR to match the C/H/S number for the area where ``FBSD boot'' starts. This way, the MBR will finally find the system. Alternatively, for people like you who are operating a truly dedicated server machine, where the disks will never see any other system so compatibility is not an issue (nor is ``multi-boot''), this is what the ``Dangerously dedicated'' mode is for. Select A)ll FreeBSD in the partition editor, and answer the next question with the non-standard answer ``No''. (Read carefully.) This will setup the following: +-----------------------------------------------------... -----------+ |FBSD | |boot FreeBSD | | | +---------------------------------------------------- ... -----------+ As you can see, no wasted space at all, and since the Master Boot Record and the FreeBSD bootstrap are identical, you don't have to care for any BIOS geometry at all. The BIOS boots sector 1, cylinder 0, head 0, and boots straight into FreeBSD this way. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 16:48:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15276 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15269 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:48:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA08717; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:28:35 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290058.LAA08717@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:28:35 +1030 (CST) Cc: hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601282257.PAA01785@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 28, 96 03:57:11 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > mgetty would be useful as it can > > actively reply calls instead of modems answering automatically, thus > > avoiding callers getting modem answer when the terminal server has crashed > > and won't be there. > > A properly configured modem and getty will do this as well. No, it won't. There is no hardware feature in the 8250-family UART that deasserts DTR when the machine has crashed. In fact, I know of no UART family that meets this criteria. > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. In my experience, very few system BIOSses reset DTR, and this isn't the issue here anyway; if the system has rebooted there's a reasonably good chance that it'll be back up and running properly shortly. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 16:52:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15450 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15431 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:52:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA27787 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:51:56 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA13520 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:51:56 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id BAA05001 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:25:02 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601290025.BAA05001@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:25:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601282257.PAA01785@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 28, 96 03:57:11 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. Hung machines (processes are alive, but context-switch hangs) cause the modem to pick up the line, but nothing happens. Despite of this, i'm still not yet convinced that mgetty is the better solution. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 16:57:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA15692 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:57:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15686 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 16:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA08781; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:39:17 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290109.LAA08781@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: pcemu & COM ports To: smp@csn.net (Steve Passe) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:39:17 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601260026.RAA25136@clem.systemsix.com> from "Steve Passe" at Jan 25, 96 05:26:02 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Steve Passe stands accused of saying: > > Am I correct in believing that pcemu has no way of emulating > a COM[1234] port via attachment to a /dev/ttydxxx port? Yes. > Has anyone found a solution to this problem? Yes, add to the sources. Hint: This is not easy; you will have to pull off at least a reasonable emulation of the 8250, and the BIOS-level services that sit on top of it. > Steve Passe | powered by -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 17:31:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16938 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:31:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16932 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa06468; 28 Jan 96 17:31 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:24:49 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: Greg Ungerer X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601291124.aa00459@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hiya FreeBSDers, I was going to make an announcement about a FreeBSD driver for some of the Stallion Technologies range of async serial multiport boards soon, but since it has come up, I'll do it now. I have made a very alpha driver for the Stallion EasyIO and EasyConnection 8/32 boards available for anon ftp from Stallions ftp site, at ftp.stallion.com:/unsupported/freebsd/stalbsd-0.0.2.tar.gz It can be used with any of FreeBSD v2.0.5, v2.1.0 and -current. This driver is not officially supported by Stallion. I am doing it in my spare time, 'cause it seemed like a good thing to do :-) The EasyIO and EasyConnection 8/32 boards are the "lower" end of Stallions performance (and price) range. They are based around the Cirrus Logic CD1400 UART. You can have up to 8 boards in the system, so you can have up 256 serial ports (if you want :-). I am working on a driver for the really intelligent boards (with processors and memory), but this is not going to be anywhere near usable for a little while yet... These boards offer excellent throughput at very low host overhead. Just out of interrest, the EasyConnection 8/32 boards are excellent as a start of for an ISP, since you can start with 8 ports, and expand to 32 as required. And then if the serial load is bogging the system down you can go to an EasyConnection 8/64 host adapter to seriously reduce the system overhead. (Well you will be able to once I finish the driver for it!). Anyway, not trying to push a sales pitch here, just offering some thoughts... Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMOR: I don't speak for Stallion, and they don't speak for me! Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 17:39:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17303 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:39:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA17298 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (root@katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id DAA27849; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:38:48 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id DAA07721; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:38:48 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:38:48 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199601290138.DAA07721@katiska.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Terry Lambert Cc: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu), hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601282257.PAA01785@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601280246.EAA23330@newzetor.clinet.fi> <199601282257.PAA01785@phaeton.artisoft.com> Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > mgetty would be useful as it can > > actively reply calls instead of modems answering automatically, thus > > avoiding callers getting modem answer when the terminal server has crashed > > and won't be there. > > A properly configured modem and getty will do this as well. > > A properly configured modem will not answer unless DTR is asserted. > When the open count coes from 1->0, the DTR is dropped. This causes a > correctly configured modem to reset (reset on on-to-off transition of DTR). Rockwell chipset based modems (all the ones I have seen) don't have DTR option which would allow this. It can either reset itself when DTR goes off (&D3), but then it will answer the phone even when DTR is off. If it does not reset itself (&D2), it works correctly with DTR. The lesson is not to use rockwell based modems, but they didn't have much competition until last six months. > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. If the machine deadlocks, gettys won't go away. At least 1 of four crashes are deadlocks where the machine freezes. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi work +358-0-4375209 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 17:57:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA18124 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:57:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18119 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id RAA00586; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:55:34 -0800 Message-Id: <199601290155.RAA00586@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: [FCC Warning!] The Dangerous effect of Direct TV !! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:29:24 MST." <199601282129.OAA01511@phaeton.artisoft.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:55:32 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As I am typing this I am watching TV on my FreeBSD box 8) Whats different is that Matrox Meteor is dumping video directly to my video graphic card very little CPU intervention. The reason for the very little intervention is that the program "tv" is capturing a single frame at a time. So right now I am watching tv at 640*480*4 at 30 fps or there abouts. the bottom line it looks damn good!! I will release a new version of "tv" tomorrow and will send out appropiate patches for the meteor driver. > > How do you deal with bus-to-bus DMA cache effects? It seems likely > that this type of usage is one that wasn't considered by the > motherboard manufacturers... considering how many of them have blown > simple bus-to-memory DMA cache update/invalidate. I still can't answer your question however the program seems to be behaving quite well. --- "TV -- It Came From FreeBSD " (Just finished watching : "It came from outer Space II" Enjoy, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 18:20:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA19242 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:20:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19237 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:20:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA13484; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:19:53 -0800 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Terry Lambert , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: [FCC Warning!] The Dangerous effect of Direct TV !! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 17:55:32 PST." <199601290155.RAA00586@rah.star-gate.com> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:19:52 -0800 Message-ID: <13482.822881992@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As I am typing this I am watching TV on my FreeBSD box 8) > Whats different is that Matrox Meteor is dumping video directly > to my video graphic card very little CPU intervention. The Cool. Assuming that my particular video card is a Matrox Impression Plus (which it is), will this work for me, too? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 18:30:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA19773 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19766 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:30:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA00905; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:28:48 -0800 Message-Id: <199601290228.SAA00905@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Terry Lambert , luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: [FCC Warning!] The Dangerous effect of Direct TV !! In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:19:52 PST." <13482.822881992@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 18:28:47 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk If you have a linear buffer and we can figured out: o Where is the physical location of the frame buffer. o If the linear buffer is accessible. The reason why I mentioning this is that the XFree86 tends to lock out the linear buffer most of the time. Yes, I know that you are using Xinside so you will have to have a slightly different version of tv one which does not depend on DGA to enable the linear buffer. This is academic at this point since I don't know jack shit about the Matrox Impression and Xinside's XServer. o The linear buffer must map the entire frame buffer -- there are some graphic engine implementations which only mmap just a bank. >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > As I am typing this I am watching TV on my FreeBSD box 8) > > Whats different is that Matrox Meteor is dumping video directly > > to my video graphic card very little CPU intervention. The > > Cool. Assuming that my particular video card is a Matrox Impression Plus > (which it is), will this work for me, too? :-) > > Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 19:19:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22729 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:19:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22724 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:19:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA06957; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:22:02 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:22:02 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601290322.UAA06957@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Doug Rabson Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp server In-Reply-To: References: <199601222144.OAA23044@rocky.sri.MT.net> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Doug Rabson writes: [ User-mode PPP ] > > > > My advice is to switch to kernel pppd until the bugs in user-ppp are > > fixed unless you have the time and desire to track them down. > > I think I will commit it in the next couple of days. I would have done > this before but I unexpectedly had to spend a week in Redmond. My > modified ppp stayed up the whole week as well :-) Great. I figured you'd pipe up one of these days. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 19:20:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22846 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:20:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22813 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA14894; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:15:25 GMT Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 15:15:24 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: Nate Williams cc: didier@aida.org, Nate Williams , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ppp server In-Reply-To: <199601222144.OAA23044@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 22 Jan 1996, Nate Williams wrote: > > > > I tryed "ppp -dedicated" but it works only once. > > > > > > Have you read the instructions in the handbook? Are your modems setup > > > correctly? Details, details.... > > > > > > > I read the handbook, But I only find some information about kernel ppp > > the modem seems to be working. I think that there is a bug somewhere > > in user ppp used with -dedicated. I got a 8Mb core file!. > > There are some bugs with user ppp. When I used it for a dedicated line, > it wouldn't work more than a day w/out dumping core. However, Doug > Rabson is looking at some patches (Doug, how are they looking?) which > make it more robust. > > > I'll try a to setup a (user) ppp server with an access through login > > My advice is to switch to kernel pppd until the bugs in user-ppp are > fixed unless you have the time and desire to track them down. I think I will commit it in the next couple of days. I would have done this before but I unexpectedly had to spend a week in Redmond. My modified ppp stayed up the whole week as well :-) -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 19:21:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA22959 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:21:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from crlabs.com (CRLABS.COM [146.99.201.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA22937 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:21:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cwiener@localhost) by crlabs.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA26828; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:20:56 -0500 (EST) From: Chris Wiener Message-Id: <199601290320.WAA26828@crlabs.com> Subject: XFqcam FreeBSD patches available - Connectix QuickCam To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:20:55 -0500 (EST) Cc: loomer@1000klub.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk FreeBSD patches for XFqcam, an X11-based application to view output from a Connectix QuickCam have been placed on: freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/xfqcam-1.02.diffs. The distribution can be found at the site listed in the release notes below. Many thanks to Paul Chinn and all the others who have worked on the QuickCam reverse engineering project. Information on the project can be found at http://www.crynwr.com/qcpc. This has been tested under FreeBSD-current as of January 24th, 1996. Chris Wiener - FreeBSD-kinda guy CR Labs cwiener@crlabs.com ORIGINAL RELEASE NOTES FOLLOW: XFqcam 1.02 January 25, 1996 by Paul Chinn (loomer@1000klub.com or loomer@svpal.org) What's New ---------- * No more image distortions, nuke flares, load flashes, etc. * UberFPS(tm)- frame rates? you want framerates? Hows about 200fps? Ok, maybe I got that with a 40x30 image and brightness cranked to 0, but still, this version is *fast*. 50 fps for a 6bit 80x60 image is not too shabby. Disclaimer ---------- This program comes with no guarantees. You use it at your own risk and assume all responsibility for any damage that results from its use. ***WARNING*** this program drives the camera as fast as it can. Framerates of 50-200 FPS are achievable on my pentium. I do not know if this is bad for the camera. I doubt it since the protocol is handshake driven, but if you use this program, YOU ASSUME ALL LIABLITY for anything bad that happens. Overview -------- XFqcam gives you a complete GUI interface to a QuickCam under Xwindows in Linux. You can manipulate all camera settings in real time and take snapshots. Installing ---------- A precompiled executable ``xfqcam'' is included. It must be SUID root to run since it needs to access the camera io ports. Or, you can build your own copy as follows: You will need the XForms library. This is a nice GUI kit available from the XForms home page at http://bragg.phys.uwm.edu/xforms. Run ``make depend'' and ``make''. Running ------- Interaction with the camera is straightforward; there are buttons and sliders to control the various functions. The ``Take Picture'' button will take a snapshot and let you save it as a PGM file. Some notes: 1. xfqcam -h will show you command line options 2. starting with this version (1.02) xfqcam will automatically find the first attached camera. This probe is read-only which means that it doesn't send goofy stuff to printers...but it also means it sometimes does not find the camera. This is especially true if the camera has been left in a weird state by a previous program. If this happens you can use the -p option to explicitly specify the port to use. 3. also, the program now detects if you have a bi-directional port or not. You can override this with th -o option if for some reason it isn't working right. If you don't have a bi-dir port the program will hang if you try to turn on the bi-directional button. Bugs & Issues ------------- * Since I don't know how to decode a 4bpp bi-directional image, this mode is currently non functional. Switching to 4bpp will disable bidirectional button. Future Enhancements ------------------- * 4bit bi directional mode * 24 bit X mode- anyone with a 24bit server want to help me with this? * let user rubber-band a rectangle on image to specify exact dimensions * Time lapse/video recording, etc. a la QuickMovie in Windows. Anyone have any input on a good approach for video recording? * image filters: frame averaging, noise removeable, etc. * clean up code more- it definately shows its Frankenstein history of hacking and patching from several sources... Program Info ----------- Please send any questions, suggestions, comments to Paul Chinn . The latest version and other info can be found on www.1000klub.com/~loomer The quickcam protocol code is a mutant combination of Thomas Davis' and Scott Laird's code with a few enhancements and additions of my own. Check out Russ Nelson's www.crynwr.com/qcpc for further info on the Linux QuickCam project. -- Christopher Wiener N2CR CR Labs, Morris Plains, NJ DOMAIN: cwiener@CRLABS.COM "Live music is better ... bumper stickers should be issued." - Neil Young From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 19:26:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA23297 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from mars.superlink.net (marxx@mars.superlink.net [204.97.220.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23290 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 19:26:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by mars.superlink.net (950911.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH825/940406.SGI) id WAA17546; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:26:28 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:26:27 -0500 (EST) From: Marxx To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: User built packet header generation Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Has anyone experimented with amnually generating packet headers? I've done some xpermineting, but ti causes the kernel to panic at m_copym in /kern/uipc_mbuf.c. Can anyone give em any insight, or a solution? Regards, Marxx From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 20:22:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA26500 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:22:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26467 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from husky.cslab.vt.edu (jaitken@husky.cs.vt.edu [128.173.41.87]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id UAA05596 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:21:56 -0800 Received: (jaitken@localhost) by husky.cslab.vt.edu (8.6.12/8.6.4) id XAA32320; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:20:33 -0500 From: Jeff Aitken Message-Id: <199601290420.XAA32320@husky.cslab.vt.edu> Subject: Re: what does this mean To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:20:33 -0500 (EST) Cc: jaitken@cslab.vt.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601290007.BAA04536@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 29, 96 01:07:53 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Which kernel? The kernel.GENERIC from 2.1R? Otherwise, we'd need the > output of ``nm /kernel | sort | more'' around address 0xf0198002. Doh! Well, you see, therein lies the problem ;) We distributed a release of 2.0.5 to the students on CD, with a few local changes (e.g., retrofitted ATAPI support). But I don't know if he's running *our* generic kernel, the 2.0.5 generic kernel, or one he compiled himself. Heck, he may have even tried to install 2.1 if he had no success with 2.0.5. I'll ask him to send you the requested information. -- Jeff Aitken jaitken@cs.vt.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 20:31:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA27820 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27813 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0tgl7s-000859C; Sun, 28 Jan 96 22:23 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0tgl3R-000CIQC; Sun, 28 Jan 96 22:18 WET Message-Id: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 96 22:18 WET To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Sun Jan 28 1996, 22:18:57 CST Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff Cc: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [4]Terry says: [4]That said, if it didn't show up for you, Larry McVoy has a well known [4]Linux bias, but I would guess it was his enthusiasm, not intellectual [4]dishonesty, that caused him to ignore the hardware differences in his [4]paper. An interesting point for people with conspiratorial slants on things: I wrote to the authors of the paper (Tuesday of the conference) noting that they complained FreeBSD didn't support a particular piece of hardware, but that in 2.0.5 and later that hardware *was* supported. So why did it get listed in the paper as unsupported? The reply I got within only a few hours indicated that the statement in the paper was a "holdover" from the FreeBSD testing done using 1.1.5.1, and that they didn't notice the change in the 2.0.5 release notes, etc! This seemed pretty sloppy work for a professional paper. Makes you wonder how many of the other FreeBSD results are really from 1.1.5.1 instead of 2.0.5, as claimed. Oh, and with all the systems on the same drive, I wonder which system was the one whose preferred disk geometry was forced on everybody else and which OS got what part of the drive, (since transfers from outer cylinders are faster on modern drives with more sectors per seek)? I used to play the benchmark game as part of my real life job - I know a few of the tricks. "Sharing a drive among the test subjects for *fairness*" is completely bogus and can be used to give any system an edge just by placing them in the right part of the media. Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 20:34:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28137 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:34:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from jennifer.pernet.net (jennifer.pernet.net [205.229.0.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28128 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:34:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from neal@localhost) by jennifer.pernet.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA16964; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:29:22 -0600 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:29:21 -0600 (CST) From: Neal Rigney To: Andreas Klemm cc: dennis , hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, dennis wrote: > > This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've answered my > > question......Its the final straw I think in making FreeBSD > > marketable...obviously > > the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades > > board > > needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? > > Dennis, a real ISP buys a fine Terminal Server to handle several > Modem lines. Something like a Livingston Portmaster isn't too > expensive for a real ISP. > > Many Modem lines produce many Interrupts. Outsource this job to > another piece of hardware as an Terminal server. Let FreeBSD be > a good server machine for www an such. > I've got to disagree with you there. We switched to FreeBSD after using a machine "designed" to be a terminal server. We've found that the FreeBSD machine is much more stable than the old machines(we used telebit Netblazers. Avoid them like the plague if you want to keep your sanity). We replaced two Netblazers with one FreeBSD machine. The price ends up being a little bit higher per machine(about $100 more), but we get the source to the server, _MUCH_ better technical help, and a machine that in emergencies can do something besides answer modems. :off soap box: As a matter of fact, we chose to use Cyclades 16-port cards. What bugs exist in this driver as of 2.1-RELEASE? We've had _no_ problems with the cyclades themselves. We had some modem problems, but fixed them easily enough. We're using the driver distributed with the kernel. -- Neal Rigney sysadmin, PERnet Communications, (409)729-4638 neal@mail.pernet.net My opinions are mine, damnit! PERnet can't have them! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 20:34:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28154 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:34:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA28136 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA09422; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:16:50 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290446.PAA09422@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:16:49 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601170501.WAA07146@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 16, 96 10:01:07 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > Actually, you can't modify the code and unless you promise to distribute > the source code of the original code. You *must* provide source code to > the software (this is GPL ish) Just after receiving this, I sent a query to the InfoZip people, seeing as it's their code anyway. I just received this reply, which I quote in full (headers pruned): From: Cave Newt To: Zip-Bugs@WKUVX1.WKU.EDU, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au Subject: Re: Use of Info-Zip code in FreeBSD tools? Mike, > Greetings to the policy people; I have a question that you're most > likely to be best placed to answer. Greetings, and apologies for not getting back to you sooner. The tide of incoming e-mail is rising... > Currently, it is assumed that code from at least unzip, and possibly > zip as well would be modified to produce a library providing a number > of high-level primitive operations on zipfiles. The current UnZip beta has a library version (shared library in Linux, since that's what I use), so it should be pretty straightforward. Zip, on the other hand, has no library version to date. > Under what terms would the FreeBSD project, and subsequent posessors > of this code, be allowed to redistribute it? > There appear to be a few wrinkles (The third and fourth section of > the S.H. Smith copyright), and the implications of the third FAQ > question on people shipping binary-only versions of FreeBSD. The S.H.Smith copyright should pretty much cease to be an issue in the coming release; the only remaining code that has not been rewritten is in unreduce.c, and by default that's no longer used. (Reducing was only used in the first beta of PKZIP.) In fact, since you're creating the zipfiles, you can take the currently released public code and just leave out unreduce.c and unshrink.c (and explode.c, for that matter); Zip 2.x only uses the deflate algorithm for compression. The binary-only issue is a little stickier; we really want people to be able to get their hands on our code. If you can essentially guarantee that everyone who receives the FreeBSD distribution will have Internet access (which is the case with OS/2 Warp via the Internet Access Kit), then it's sufficient to point at our WWW and/or ftp sites. Otherwise the distributor(s) should be prepared to mail out a floppy for a minimal charge if requested, assuming there's absolutely no room on the CD or whatever for another meg of source archives. (To our knowledge, no one ever makes such a request, but you never know.) If this is really going to be a problem, we can talk about it some more; we try to facilitate such things whenever possible. -- Greg Roelofs "Name an animal that's small and fuzzy." "Mold." newt@uchicago.edu or http://quest.jpl.nasa.gov/Info-ZIP/people/greg/ ... As far as I can see, this answers most of the qualms that were raised about using InfoZip source in the package tools. The only possible scenario I can see causing problems would be someone distributing a binary-only version of FreeBSD with all of the networking code removed but still keeping the package tools. I'd say that was pretty unlikely 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 20:42:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA28540 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:42:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28527 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:42:02 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601290442.UAA28527@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:18:00 +0700." Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:42:01 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Oh, and with all the systems on the same drive, I wonder which system >was the one whose preferred disk geometry was forced on everybody else >and which OS got what part of the drive, (since transfers from outer cylinders >are faster on modern drives with more sectors per seek)? All disk related benchmarks were performed on a second disk that was re-intialized for all operating systems prio to their test run. I doubt that disk locality had much of an impact on the other benchmarks. >Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" >or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!!! >" > ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" >or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 > -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:01:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00601 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from gdi.uoregon.edu (riley-net170-164.uoregon.edu [128.223.170.164]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00596 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:01:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dwhite@localhost) by gdi.uoregon.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA04474; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:58:02 -0800 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 20:58:02 -0800 (PST) From: Doug White Reply-To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu To: Sociedade Brasileira de Quimica/Admin cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: SCSI Question In-Reply-To: <199601281727.RAA18205@www.sbq.org.br> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Sociedade Brasileira de Quimica/Admin wrote: > Hello > We have 4 servers and I'm having a little problem installing > 2.1.0 in some of them: In each and every case: 1) Boot to DOS 2) Run FDISK 3) Select the appropriate disk and partition as "active" That should fix them. Doug White | University of Oregon Internet: dwhite@gladstone.uoregon.edu | Residence Networking Assistant http://gladstone.uoregon.edu/~dwhite | Computer Science Major From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:03:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00949 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:03:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA00942 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:03:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id XAA02869; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:01:34 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601290501.XAA02869@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: mrcpu@cdsnet.net (Jaye Mathisen) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:01:33 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, andreas@knobel.gun.de, dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Jaye Mathisen" at Jan 28, 96 03:43:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Portmasters are junk. If you're going to get a specialized terminal > > server, buy an Annex. Or better yet,.... > > I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind the claim that > portmasters are junk. We kind of went the other way, and bailed on > multiport serial cards, with the assorted hassles and such, and went to > the portmaster, and they've been a dream. I've been through this before, I don't really have the time or energy to go into it right now, but the Portmasters have caused various problems at every site that I am aware of. I've had to work hacks for customers because of Livingston brokenness. I see no favorable points for them, aside from their relatively low cost, which I would also suggest may actually be a reason NOT to buy them. > If I could solve my RAID box/FreeBSD 2.1.0 problem, I'd be completely > FreeBSD as well. > > The argument about spare parts is specious at best, Anybody in this > business in any serious way has spare parts out the wazoo... Yes, but if you're an ISP with 50 modems hanging off of two Portmasters, how many spare Portmasters do you have in stock? How quickly could you be up and running if disaster took one of your PM's offline? Two?? Somebody asked me why I don't use "real" routers like Ciscos. It's the same argument. With Cisco mantaining months of backlog, it's a pain to do business with them. Even though they might expedite a replacement in case of disaster, I feel more comfortable knowing that I can go down to CompUSA and pick up a six-pack of NE-2000's and stuff them on a 386DX/40 and have a respectable router within an hour. I have two routers here that resemble that description! They run mostly idle. One of them routes packets for news.sol.net, runs at 80% idle, and is handling a minimum of 300 packets per second (NNTP is soooo chatty). I'm certainly not running cutting-edge PC equipment so I'm fairly confident that if I were ever to run into performance problems, I could drop a couple of multiport PCI ethernet cards into a low end Pentium and I'm still nowhere near the cost of a Cisco. This FreeBSD stuff is great. I can build all the equipment an ISP would need using it. I can do so more cheaply than the "specialized" counterparts. And best of all it all runs UNIX. Show me "gdb" running on a Portmaster or Cisco. Show me customized accounting software running on a Portmaster or Cisco. I totally agree with what you said. :-) Any ISP will absolutely have spare parts or at least leverage-able parts. PC parts. Cheap, easy, commonplace. Are there tradeoffs? Yes, I'm sure they are. Are they hurting (or likely to hurt) me? I don't think so. I'll take my FreeBSD terminal servers, thank you. Praxis, Mycogen, Daneel, Demerzel, Dahl and Gorgon have served faithfully through multiple versions of FreeBSD, on CPU's ranging from 386sx/16 to 386dx/40, for years. Others I have built also serve faithfully. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:06:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA01250 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01214 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA08266; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:03:06 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601290003.AAA08266@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:03:06 +0000 () Cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org, uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Jan 28, 96 10:18:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I used to play the benchmark game as part of my real life job - I know a > few of the tricks. "Sharing a drive among the test subjects for *fairness*" > is completely bogus and can be used to give any system an edge just by > placing them in the right part of the media. > One interesting note, I benchmark FreeBSD vs. Linux (and used to SVR4) regularly in order to evaluate places where performance might/should be improved. I am *brutal* to FreeBSD, but it is getting difficult to find places where it can easily be improved (some of the performance "nits" are due to differences in philosophy and not actual performance problems.) With the latest pipe improvements, I am running out of steam. Indeed, my goal is to "find" performance problems. If anyone has a "cache" of programs to show performance bottlenecks, please email them to me. They will be used to improve FreeBSD's performance, and if I don't do it, DG, BDE or someone else will work on the code. There is another layer of improvements that I have been thinking about, but those require more involved work, and I want to work on easier stuff right now :-). Brain vacation time :-). John Dyson From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:30:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA03847 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:30:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA03841 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:30:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA07213; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:32:34 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:32:34 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601290532.WAA07213@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), Hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) In-Reply-To: <199601290446.PAA09422@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199601170501.WAA07146@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199601290446.PAA09422@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > Actually, you can't modify the code and unless you promise to distribute > > the source code of the original code. You *must* provide source code to > > the software (this is GPL ish) > > Just after receiving this, I sent a query to the InfoZip people, seeing as > it's their code anyway. I just received this reply, which I quote in > full (headers pruned): Okay, the part that is the stickler is: { begin quote } > The binary-only issue is a little stickier; we really want people to be > able to get their hands on our code. If you can essentially guarantee > that everyone who receives the FreeBSD distribution will have Internet > access (which is the case with OS/2 Warp via the Internet Access Kit), > then it's sufficient to point at our WWW and/or ftp sites. Otherwise > the distributor(s) should be prepared to mail out a floppy for a minimal > charge if requested, assuming there's absolutely no room on the CD or > whatever for another meg of source archives. (To our knowledge, no one > ever makes such a request, but you never know.) { begin quote } > ... As far as I can see, this answers most of the qualms that were raised > about using InfoZip source in the package tools. No, the above is also one of the the qualms I had. > The only possible scenario I can see causing problems would be someone > distributing a binary-only version of FreeBSD with all of the networking > code removed but still keeping the package tools. I'd say that was > pretty unlikely 8) Actually, it's not unlikely in the least bit, and I would venture to say even likely. What about folks who plan on using FreeBSD as the OS for their product. FreeBSD becomes the catalyst for providing the base functionality, so providing sources is a hassle and not important. However, the package tools are a great way of doing updates and installing new versions of the 'product', so it would be nice to use the existing tools rather than rolling a new (probably incompatible) tool to do the same thing. The reason the BSD license is preferred over the GPL is because it gives the users of the software the ability to both use and utilize the entire OS. Obviously, this breaks down for things development tools (gcc and friends) and other parts of the system, but those aren't necessary to build a running system for the most part. (Actually, ld.so is both GPL'd and necessary which is too bad unless you want to build a static only system). Again, it's not a super-critical problem, but it's also not the best of solutions either. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:34:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA04204 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:34:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04195 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:34:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA17493; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:33:40 -0800 To: Michael Smith cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), Hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, newt@uchicago.edu Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:16:49 +1030." <199601290446.PAA09422@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:33:40 -0800 Message-ID: <17491.822893620@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > The binary-only issue is a little stickier; we really want people to be > able to get their hands on our code. If you can essentially guarantee > that everyone who receives the FreeBSD distribution will have Internet > access (which is the case with OS/2 Warp via the Internet Access Kit), I think that this can be reasonably assured, and all of the distributions we're personally involved with certainly contain full sources for everything. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:35:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA04453 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA04438 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:35:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA09561; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:18:03 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290548.QAA09561@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:18:02 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290532.WAA07213@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 28, 96 10:32:34 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > Obviously, this breaks down for things development tools (gcc and > friends) and other parts of the system, but those aren't necessary to > build a running system for the most part. (Actually, ld.so is both > GPL'd and necessary which is too bad unless you want to build a static > only system). Not to be rude, but I can't see the "problem scenario" being at all realistic. We have a vendor who will take FreeBSD, remove the networking support, remove the C compiler from their distribution, rebuild everything static, hunt down and dike out everything else even vaguely GPLish, and not rework their installation tools? > Again, it's not a super-critical problem, but it's also not the best of > solutions either. It's a lot better than the current situation, which depends, amusingly enough, on the GPL'd tar and gzip. What is the current state of play on the Zip API anyway? > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:44:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA05152 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:44:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05147 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:44:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA07266; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:46:32 -0700 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:46:32 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601290546.WAA07266@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), Hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) In-Reply-To: <199601290548.QAA09561@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199601290532.WAA07213@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199601290548.QAA09561@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Obviously, this breaks down for things development tools (gcc and > > friends) and other parts of the system, but those aren't necessary to > > build a running system for the most part. (Actually, ld.so is both > > GPL'd and necessary which is too bad unless you want to build a static > > only system). > > Not to be rude, but I can't see the "problem scenario" being at all > realistic. It's not only realistic, it's happening. :) > We have a vendor who will take FreeBSD, remove the networking > support, remove the C compiler from their distribution, rebuild everything > static, hunt down and dike out everything else even vaguely GPLish, and > not rework their installation tools? Why do you have to remove the networking support? It's also quite easy to remove everything GPL'ish from the system by simpling removing /usr/src/gnu from the build tree. > > Again, it's not a super-critical problem, but it's also not the best of > > solutions either. > > It's a lot better than the current situation, which depends, amusingly > enough, on the GPL'd tar and gzip. Ahh, but tar can be replaced easily with a PD version, or BSD pax it it's that critical. Heck, Andy Tanenbaum already donated the version of tar in minix if we want it. Gzip is another thing altogether, but assuming you're making your own custom release you can easily replace gzip with compress. Also, assuming the vendor is doing a custom release, the initial install is the easy part. The after-sale support is where the difficulties lie. I do agree that the current tools are using GPL code, but I'd like to avoid if possible bringing in code with similar restrictions. However, it may not be possible. :( (BTW - I was one of the original proponents of using zip, and still think it's by far the best solution available at the present time. I just wish we could get a more 'free' ZIP library.) Oh, and as far as doing the ZIP api, I'm not be the right person for the job anymore. I signed a psuedo-NDA from Sun for the Java stuff, and it turns out that Sun has implemented a ZIP API used in Java (for storing the class libraries) which I now have the source for. There is the possibility of 'contamination' which will preclude me from actually authoring the ZIP api library. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 21:56:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA05781 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:56:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA05775 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 21:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA08654; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:52:46 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601290052.AAA08654@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:52:46 +0000 () Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290548.QAA09561@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 29, 96 04:18:02 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > > > Obviously, this breaks down for things development tools (gcc and > > friends) and other parts of the system, but those aren't necessary to > > build a running system for the most part. (Actually, ld.so is both > > GPL'd and necessary which is too bad unless you want to build a static > > only system). > > Not to be rude, but I can't see the "problem scenario" being at all > realistic. We have a vendor who will take FreeBSD, remove the networking > support, remove the C compiler from their distribution, rebuild everything > static, hunt down and dike out everything else even vaguely GPLish, and > not rework their installation tools? > At work, where we might end up deploying FreeBSD based boxen, if it is an application where it is embedded, and source is not easily redistributed, we will remove EVERY LAST BIT OF ENCUMBERED CODE. The company that I work for has deep pockets, and is very sensitive to such issues. If there was NO GPL encumbered code in the system, it would make our life easier, but we have a step to deal with in the development process because of GPL encumberance :-(. John Dyson dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 22:06:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA06326 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06317 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:06:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA09670; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:48:51 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290618.QAA09670@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:48:51 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290546.WAA07266@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 28, 96 10:46:32 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > We have a vendor who will take FreeBSD, remove the networking > > support, remove the C compiler from their distribution, rebuild everything > > static, hunt down and dike out everything else even vaguely GPLish, and > > not rework their installation tools? > > Why do you have to remove the networking support? It's also quite easy Because otherwise you can say 'connect the system to the internet and FTP the code'. Please read what I posted. > (BTW - I was one of the original proponents of using zip, and still > think it's by far the best solution available at the present time. I > just wish we could get a more 'free' ZIP library.) I'm 100% in agreement with you here, I just think that you're being overtly pessimistic about the licensing 8) > Oh, and as far as doing the ZIP api, I'm not be the right person for the > job anymore. I signed a psuedo-NDA from Sun for the Java stuff, and it > turns out that Sun has implemented a ZIP API used in Java (for storing > the class libraries) which I now have the source for. There is the > possibility of 'contamination' which will preclude me from actually > authoring the ZIP api library. :( Dang. Is their API any good? 8) > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 22:15:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA06900 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:15:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA06894 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA09708; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:57:31 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601290627.QAA09708@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:57:30 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290052.AAA08654@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 29, 96 00:52:46 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk John S. Dyson stands accused of saying: > At work, where we might end up deploying FreeBSD based boxen, if it is > an application where it is embedded, and source is not easily redistributed, > we will remove EVERY LAST BIT OF ENCUMBERED CODE. The company that I work > for has deep pockets, and is very sensitive to such issues. I understand this; in your situation would you be shipping the package tools with the system? If you did, would your customers be unable to either access the net or obtain the Zip source code from you? And if so, would you be unwilling to negotiate with the InfoZip people to reach an intermediate agreement? They seem to be very reasonable. I'm not arguing here, just curious to know what direction you're pointing in. > John Dyson -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 22:22:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA07252 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:22:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA07247 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:22:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id BAA08755; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:18:58 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601290118.BAA08755@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:18:58 +0000 () Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, nate@sri.MT.net, Hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290627.QAA09708@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 29, 96 04:57:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > John S. Dyson stands accused of saying: > > At work, where we might end up deploying FreeBSD based boxen, if it is > > an application where it is embedded, and source is not easily redistributed, > > we will remove EVERY LAST BIT OF ENCUMBERED CODE. The company that I work > > for has deep pockets, and is very sensitive to such issues. > > I understand this; in your situation would you be shipping the package > tools with the system? If you did, would your customers be unable to > either access the net or obtain the Zip source code from you? And if so, > would you be unwilling to negotiate with the InfoZip people to reach > an intermediate agreement? They seem to be very reasonable. > > I'm not arguing here, just curious to know what direction you're pointing in. > Our customers would be provided with ONLY a execute-only environment -- almost like being rommed. I really don't have many problems with GPLed code in a development environment, but in an execute enviroment in manufactured product -- it is problematical. But if the world never heard of GPL, it would be nicer. :-)... But in reality, there could be a much worse alternative to GPL so the world could be much much worse -- so it isn't really all that bad. John Dyson From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 22:53:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA09086 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:53:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com (gatekeeper.mcimail.com [192.147.45.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09079 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id GAA31302; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:50:32 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id em05637; 29 Jan 96 6:53 WET Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 01:40 EST From: "MCI Mail X.400 Service" To: hackers Subject: Message Status Message-Id: <03960129064030/POSTMASTERD49X4@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk DELIVERY NOTICE Referencing: Message id: 85960127183658/0003765414DC3EM Subject: hackers-digest V Your Message To: C=IN A=VSNL P=XEEMAIL O=XEEDEL OU1=XEENET S=vivekp could not be delivered to this recipient. Reason: Transfer failure. Diagnostic: Maximum time expired. This non-delivery notice generated: MON JAN 29, 1996 6:40 am GMT From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Jan 28 23:50:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA11623 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:50:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11618 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:50:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA11570; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:50:12 -0800 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:50:12 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: Terry Lambert , Heikki Suonsivu , hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601290138.DAA07721@katiska.clinet.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > mgetty would be useful as it can > > > actively reply calls instead of modems answering automatically, thus > > > avoiding callers getting modem answer when the terminal server has crashed > > > and won't be there. > > > > A properly configured modem and getty will do this as well. > > > > A properly configured modem will not answer unless DTR is asserted. > > > When the open count coes from 1->0, the DTR is dropped. This causes a > > correctly configured modem to reset (reset on on-to-off transition of DTR). > > Rockwell chipset based modems (all the ones I have seen) don't have DTR > option which would allow this. It can either reset itself when DTR goes > off (&D3), but then it will answer the phone even when DTR is off. If it > does not reset itself (&D2), it works correctly with DTR. The lesson is > not to use rockwell based modems, but they didn't have much competition > until last six months. well... the rockwell based modems that I have (the supra line) all support the dtr high to low to reset... just do a simple &d3... this will have the modem do a soft reset (atz) on dtr loss... this is on both the 14.4k and the 28.8k modems of supra.... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 00:08:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12343 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA12338 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (root@katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id KAA03064; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:07:41 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id KAA21791; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:07:41 +0200 (EET) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:07:41 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199601290807.KAA21791@katiska.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: John-Mark Gurney Cc: Heikki Suonsivu , Terry Lambert , hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: References: <199601290138.DAA07721@katiska.clinet.fi> Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk John-Mark Gurney writes: > well... the rockwell based modems that I have (the supra line) all > support the dtr high to low to reset... just do a simple &d3... this > will have the modem do a soft reset (atz) on dtr loss... this is on both > the 14.4k and the 28.8k modems of supra.... Yes, it will reset itself, but even if you keep DTR down, it will answer the phone after it has reset itself. I don't know for sure about supras, but most brands sold here work like this. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi work +358-0-4375209 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 00:09:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA12390 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:09:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA12374 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id JAA04923; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:03:15 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601290803.JAA04923@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: [FCC Warning!] The Dangerous effect of Direct TV !! To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:03:15 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199601290155.RAA00586@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jan 28, 96 05:55:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As I am typing this I am watching TV on my FreeBSD box 8) > Whats different is that Matrox Meteor is dumping video directly > to my video graphic card very little CPU intervention. The > reason for the very little intervention is that the program > "tv" is capturing a single frame at a time. There is no point in doing this, I believe. > > How do you deal with bus-to-bus DMA cache effects? It seems likely > > that this type of usage is one that wasn't considered by the > > motherboard manufacturers... considering how many of them have blown > > simple bus-to-memory DMA cache update/invalidate. > > I still can't answer your question however the program seems to > be behaving quite well. Consider a few things: * why should the VRAM be cacheable in the first place, given that the video chipset is doing all sorts of things on it. * often both the grabber and the video board are on the same PCI bus. * every location is written by the grabber only once per frame. * one frame does not fit into 256K of cache --> we should not bother too much about the problem mentioned by Terry. Luigi From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 00:28:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA13288 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:28:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from nike.efn.org (garcia.efn.org [198.68.17.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA13283 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from gurney_j@localhost) by nike.efn.org (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA11639; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:28:04 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:28:03 -0800 (PST) From: John-Mark Gurney Reply-To: John-Mark Gurney To: Heikki Suonsivu cc: Terry Lambert , hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601290807.KAA21791@katiska.clinet.fi> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Heikki Suonsivu wrote: > > John-Mark Gurney writes: > > well... the rockwell based modems that I have (the supra line) all > > support the dtr high to low to reset... just do a simple &d3... this > > will have the modem do a soft reset (atz) on dtr loss... this is on both > > the 14.4k and the 28.8k modems of supra.... > > Yes, it will reset itself, but even if you keep DTR down, it will answer > the phone after it has reset itself. I don't know for sure about supras, > but most brands sold here work like this. supra's won't answer when the dtr is low... I know this as I have a modem that is specially set up then when reset turns autoanswer on... and when atz it will turn it off... nice if you want to run both mgetty and getty with out having to modify either config and it doesn't answer the phone when dtr is low... I guess this is a reason to buy a name brand modem like Supra... John-Mark gurney_j@efn.org Modem/FAX: (503) 683-6954 (FreeBSD Box) Live in Peace, destroy Micro$oft, support free software, run FreeBSD (unix) GCS/M/Sd#h+s+!gau-a--w++++vC+++++UF++++P---E---N++W---M--V--Y+t+5++G+b+D++ B----eu+h++!f++n---- CD5OUF++++.L-------2W.DM----N.9---NET2SP3s.2,4s.,4d.2,6--- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 00:52:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA14356 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:52:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA14351 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA02598; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:51:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199601290851.AAA02598@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Chris Wiener cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org, loomer@1000klub.com Subject: Re: XFqcam FreeBSD patches available - Connectix QuickCam In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 22:20:55 EST." <199601290320.WAA26828@crlabs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 00:51:45 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk What kind say , this got to be the video week 8) >>> Chris Wiener said: > FreeBSD patches for XFqcam, an X11-based application to view output from a > Connectix QuickCam have been placed on: > freebsd.cdrom.com:/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/xfqcam-1.02.diffs. What the Hell is a Connectix QuickCam? Is a tiny camera/video capture device with a parallel port interface. So whats the big deal? It costs $100 or less which means that the FreeBSD crowd can now have dirt cheap video gear for video conferencing. The only catch is that the QuickCam output is black and white. Happy video, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 01:44:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA17487 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:44:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17463 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id BAA07472 ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:43:52 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA22367; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:37:48 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA17309; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:37:48 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA07573; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:35:32 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601290935.KAA07573@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: SCSI Question To: dwhite@resnet.uoregon.edu Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:35:31 +0100 (MET) Cc: sbqadm@sbq.org.br, hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Doug White" at Jan 28, 96 08:58:02 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Doug White wrote: > > In each and every case: > > 1) Boot to DOS > 2) Run FDISK > 3) Select the appropriate disk and partition as "active" > > That should fix them. Nope. It won't. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 01:46:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA17652 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:46:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA17533 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 01:44:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id KAA05121 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:42:14 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601290942.KAA05121@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:42:14 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on freebsd.cdrom.com If there are no good reasons, could they be enabled ? I am asking because am doing some experiments on TCP selective acknowledgements (SACK) which use timestamps to convey SACK information. Those interested can have a look at the following URL for more references http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/research.html Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 02:05:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA18523 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:05:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA18517 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:05:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id CAA29539; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:04:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:42:14 +0100." <199601290942.KAA05121@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:04:06 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall >and freebsd.cdrom.com > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on >freebsd.cdrom.com > >If there are no good reasons, could they be enabled ? It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. It will remain disabled until such time that 99.999% of the people out there can deal with TCP extensions. Otherwise, we'll be getting way too many bug reports. Wcarchive, for example, serves 20000 people a day; I'm sure you can imagine the extremely high probability that more than one person per day will run into this problem. :-) -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 02:26:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA19624 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA19499 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from cnrg.itb.ac.id (cnrg.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.107]) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA07221 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:36:13 +0700 Resent-Message-Id: <199601291036.RAA07221@maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id> Received: from CNRG/MAILQUEUE by cnrg.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 29 Jan 96 17:26:05 +0700 Received: from MAILQUEUE by CNRG (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 29 Jan 96 17:03:38 +0700 Resent-from: "Arman Hazairin" Resent-to: freebsd-hackers@itb.ac.id Resent-date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:03:37 +0700 Received: from MAILQUEUE by CNRG (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 29 Jan 96 0:45:57 +0700 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org by cnrg.itb.ac.id (Mercury 1.12); Mon, 29 Jan 96 0:45:46 +0700 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21883 Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA21872 for hackers-outgoing; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA21867 for ; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 08:58:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA09526; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:57:18 -0500 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 11:57:18 -0500 Message-Id: <199601281657.LAA09526@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-PMFLAGS: 34078720 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk J. Wunsch writes.... >As Nate Williams wrote: >> >> [ Dennis's post ] >> >> > |>Flame bait ;-) >> > | >> > |only way to stir emotions in the passives. >> >> May I respectfully ask the members of the core team to consider banning >> Dennis from the mailing lists if he continues to posts like this. > >Dennis, do you have to tell us something to your defense? (I rather >think of a promise to stop this kind of postings in future, not of yet >another argumentation war.) Perhaps if you define the "kind" of posting that you're talking about? Ones that Nate doesnt like? Should I clear all of my postings with him before forwarding them to the list? I think that the fact that FreeBSDs (poor) dial-in capabilities are perhaps the single obstacle to much wider use are an issue for discussion. There are incredible inconsistancies in the "focus" of the core team, and if I'm going to abandon support for BSDI for Freebsd I have to be certain that the situation is workable. There is much discussion on nonsense like magazine articles and "exposure" for FreeBSD....yet there is weeks of discussion on writing drivers for ISDN when the regular modem stuff still doesnt work. It makes little sense to me. I made a "nice" post and no-one responded. Besides...you're free to not respond... the discussion on your reaction to my post is much more of a waste of time than a discussion of whether or not (and why) something as important as multiport hardware drivers are buggy. I think some good came out of it as well...as there seems to be at least 2 people willing to make the driver better and tackle the non-disclosure. What positives do you think will come out of your (and Nate's) discussion of "Dennis' behaviour"? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 02:28:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA19777 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from forbidden-planet.netlab.london.sco.com (forbidden-planet.london.sco.COM [150.126.4.148]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA19767 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 02:28:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from davided@localhost) by forbidden-planet.netlab.london.sco.com (8.6.12/dme/nice-1.1) id KAA17568; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:33:34 GMT Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:33:34 GMT Message-Id: <199601291033.KAA17568@forbidden-planet.netlab.london.sco.com> From: dave edmondson To: Wilko Bulte Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp, jkh@freefall.freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PCMCIA stuff. In-Reply-To: <199601252313.AAA02267@yedi.iaf.nl> References: <20207.822595532@time.cdrom.com> <199601252313.AAA02267@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Face: "?v.huY]?B[a4C|xid!Tx8TpwOQe6]C(I}h8Vo1z6'9soM_Xvq2f3u::[F~rW>GWj6;IfU,10H;B&1JDE/H8?``q4XH4~!\_z{n3RDmkC;9d!Yx3O7n?9,[CE;TWB! F8.e5fc0dJXikU'v1qFVTfptB7xe$y*t#jx4`I44n,ypMQg@.|Z^ycJ:G]{dR~E}_.T1^shwC%T4eRGVu%h+J7lBzb>m20==Q*OPAf^~@6Lj^)rI9Tb*m*L}}HC~{> /__Od\I=[|aP6s}B%BhqtE-9uGJ0J3jchjcyJz5fW[i0$RfPv7Zp=!a+0pR Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk there've been various different usr 28.8 pcmcia modems. the one i've got (28,800 Sportster with XJACK) is actually a rebadged megahertz. it works fine. some of the earlier ones (`worldport') had a different chipset, so your mileage may vary. -- ``The good news is that in 1995 we will have a good operating system and programming language; the bad news is that they will be Unix and C++.'' -- Richard P. Gabriel From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 03:21:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA22976 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:21:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA22949 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:21:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id MAA21851; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:15:27 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02240; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:04:06 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:04:06 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Greg Lehey cc: FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Documenters Subject: Re: What printed documentation do we need? In-Reply-To: <199601201712.SAA20327@allegro.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 20 Jan 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > I'm currently in the process of formatting the FreeBSD man pages for > printing, and it's evident that there's a lot of stuff missing. In > particular: Before the online manual section I'd suggest to put in front some other nice information about FreeBSD, perhaps some docs from the WEB server. - History of FreeBSD - The people behind FreeBSD - FreeBSD's goal - Where FreeBSD is available, as well a list of European WC resellers. The following issues should be covered as well - Supported Hardware (-stable, -current, near future plans) - Installation methods The usage of the fixit disk should be explained. Perhaps a list of available commands, as reference. Then I'd like to see a collections of FAQ's from comp.answers, that could help people with stuff like PPP or INN. I think of the following FAQ's (perhaps some of them not, only a suggestion, since I never saw a book covering these issues !): - comp.protocols.ppp - World Wide Web Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ), Introduction - Csh Programming Considered Harmful - comp.mail.sendmail FAQ - Catalog of compilers, interpreters and other language tools - comp.compression - comp.mail.mime - comp.periphs.scsi - comp.lang.tcl - XFree86 FAQ - comp.windows.x - ISO 8859-1 character set - data communications cabling - comp.dcom.lans.ethernet - comp.dcom.isdn - FAQ for g++, libg++ - UUCP internals FAQ - UNIX email software survey - comp client-server - ELM mail user agent FAQ - Unix shell differences and how to change your shell FAQ - comp.arch.storage - x86 assembly language faq - Majordomo FAQ - Enhanced IDE/Fast ATA.... FAQ (?) - z shell FAQ - comp lang perl FAQ - MH FAQ - Motif FAQ - mgetty+sendfax FAQ - comp.unix.bsd FAQ (????? perhaps better an updated FreeBSD FAQ...) - Unix FAQ (!!!) - Accessing the Internet by e-mai FAQ - Pointer to elm FAQ - INN FAQ And of course we need some kind of HOWTO's .. Howto add a disk Howto configure FreeBSD as a router Howto secure the system using xxx (xxx=tcp_wrappers,...) Howto use the ports section Ok, man of these things should be / maybe are (?) covered by the FreeBSD manual... -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 03:23:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA23131 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA23113 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id MAA05320; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:18:42 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601291118.MAA05320@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:18:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jan 29, 96 02:03:47 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > >freebsd.cdrom.com > > > >If there are no good reasons, could they be enabled ? > > It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, > and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. > It will remain disabled until such time that 99.999% of the people out > there can deal with TCP extensions. Otherwise, we'll be getting way too many > bug reports. Wcarchive, for example, serves 20000 people a day; I'm sure you > can imagine the extremely high probability that more than one person per day > will run into this problem. :-) All the above is mostly reasonable, and of course I cannot object to this policy. I just want to point out a few things, which I hope will make you change your positions for the long term. 1) extensions (really, TCP options) are negotiated. If the server does _not_ request for possibly unknown extensions, but merely respond to incoming requests, I do not see how this could do any harm. I don't know if FreeBSD requests for extensions even in the LISTEN state, but disabling this should require trivial changes to the kernel (and it would probably be a good idea to implement such a behaviour). 2) the "99.999%" may be an exaggeration, but to me it means "never". This might be a bad idea for more useful options (such as selective ACKs). 3) I have done a quick investigation on the few ftp sites which came to my mind (I don't use much ftp these days...) and here is the result: RFC1323 enabled: unix.hensa.ac.uk ftp.netscape.com RFC1323 disabled: ftp.cdrom.com funic.funet.fi ftp.ncsa.uiuc.edu sunsite.unc.edu I did not expected many sites to support RFC1323, as they might even be not present in older OS revisions etc. Note however that the two sites that do use RFC1323 are large servers, comparable (or larger) to ftp.cdrom.com. And the second one is a commercial site, so they are quite interested in letting everybody in without troubles. Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 03:25:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA23340 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA23335 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:25:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id MAA21847; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:15:14 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00469; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:01:02 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:01:02 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Joe Greco cc: Jaye Mathisen , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601290501.XAA02869@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > Portmasters are junk. If you're going to get a specialized terminal > > > server, buy an Annex. Or better yet,.... Ok, I heard, that Annex should be fine, too. > > I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind the claim that > > portmasters are junk. We kind of went the other way, and bailed on > > multiport serial cards, with the assorted hassles and such, and went to > > the portmaster, and they've been a dream. > > I've been through this before, I don't really have the time or energy to go > into it right now, but the Portmasters have caused various problems at every > site that I am aware of. Too bad, _this_ would be interesting for me, since my company is about to buy such things. Our ISP described those Portmasters as the best you can get, because of port speed and robustness. > I've had to work hacks for customers because of Livingston brokenness. > I see no favorable points for them, aside from their > relatively low cost, which I would also suggest may actually be a reason > NOT to buy them. I can't believe this, how can experiences differ this much ? > Yes, but if you're an ISP with 50 modems hanging off of two Portmasters, how > many spare Portmasters do you have in stock? How quickly could you be up > and running if disaster took one of your PM's offline? Two?? It's perhaps a question of service contracts or you really need one in stock... On the other hand ... how many FreeBSD Boxes do you need, if you want to handle 50 modem lines ? Ithink this yould be more expensive. I think two Portmaster with 30 lines aren't that bad .. if one fails, you still have the other ... >[...] This FreeBSD stuff is great. [...] Agreed. ;-) -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 03:37:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA24127 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA24121 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:37:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id DAA00305; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:34:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199601291134.DAA00305@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:18:42 +0100." <199601291118.MAA05320@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 03:34:00 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >1) extensions (really, TCP options) are negotiated. If the server > does _not_ request for possibly unknown extensions, but merely > respond to incoming requests, I do not see how this could do > any harm. I don't know if FreeBSD requests for extensions even > in the LISTEN state, but disabling this should require trivial > changes to the kernel (and it would probably be a good idea to > implement such a behaviour). The problem isn't the negotiation - this happens just fine. The problem is with certain terminal servers that won't pass packets with TCP options in them. The options negotiation succeeds, but all the packets from that point on are dropped. >2) the "99.999%" may be an exaggeration, but to me it means "never". > This might be a bad idea for more useful options (such as > selective ACKs). Actually, 99.999% is probably not enough. 1 in 100000 people means I'll be getting a trouble report every 5 days (sooner now that I've upgraded the machine to handle 600 users - the traffic has almost doubled since I last calculated the people/day statistic). >Note however that the two sites that do use RFC1323 are large >servers, comparable (or larger) to ftp.cdrom.com. And the second >one is a commercial site, so they are quite interested in letting >everybody in without troubles. Yes, but wcarchive is the largest FTP site in the world. We likely have 10 times the traffic (or more!) of those other sites. I don't think you realize just how much traffic wcarchive has each day. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 06:17:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA04291 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA03769 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id PAA05532; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:11:06 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601291411.PAA05532@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:11:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291134.DAA00305@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jan 29, 96 03:33:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >1) extensions (really, TCP options) are negotiated. If the server > > does _not_ request for possibly unknown extensions, but merely > > respond to incoming requests, I do not see how this could do > > any harm. I don't know if FreeBSD requests for extensions even > > in the LISTEN state, but disabling this should require trivial > > changes to the kernel (and it would probably be a good idea to > > implement such a behaviour). > > The problem isn't the negotiation - this happens just fine. The problem is > with certain terminal servers that won't pass packets with TCP options in > them. The options negotiation succeeds, but all the packets from that point on > are dropped. For the negotiation to succeed it requires an RFC1323 client, which sends a packets _with options_ asking for whatever extension he wants, the reply _with options_ should go through, and only at this point you have a failure. This means that the (potential) failure rate is going to increase with time, as the number of RFC1323 clients increases and "certain terminal servers" are not upgraded because nobody realizes the problem. Anyways, as I said in my previous email, your policy is perfectly reasonable and denotes great care towards customer satisfaction. > >Note however that the two sites that do use RFC1323 are large > >servers, comparable (or larger) to ftp.cdrom.com. And the second > >one is a commercial site, so they are quite interested in letting > >everybody in without troubles. > > Yes, but wcarchive is the largest FTP site in the world. We likely have 10 > times the traffic (or more!) of those other sites. I don't think you realize > just how much traffic wcarchive has each day. I don't question your word. I just want to point out that people at unix.hensa.ac.uk (and wwwcache.hensa.ac.uk, a national web proxy) say that they serve over 1 million web documents per day, so they might have scalability and interoperability problems similar to yours. Two differences, perhaps: * www documents are often smaller than ftp, and just one per connection, so it's hard to make a comparison of the traffic; * they mostly serve UK clients, so they might have a different view of the world (read: thei might not have to deal with the same brokenesses). Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 06:23:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA04823 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:23:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA04814 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:23:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id PAA14953; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:23:09 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA06698; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:49:48 +0100 Message-Id: <199601291349.OAA06698@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: sos@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Searching LCC users/hackers ... In-reply-to: sos's message of Sun, 28 Jan 1996 23:10:21 +0100. <199601282210.XAA22784@DeepCore.dk> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:49:48 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Back in june there was talk about the LCC compiler, and I got mail > from a couble of interested parties. Well now I've found my old > patches and put them into the 3.4B release with support for both > static & shared libs. I've also done a fair bit of work getting it > to understand long longs (ie 64bit ints), to be honest I can declare > a variable and store a value in it, but its a start.. > > The reason for this letter is that I lost my old mail (or rather cannot > find the backup tape) so I've lost the names of the interested parties.. > > So, anybody out there still interested in LCC ??? > Sure, >From what I understand it compiles much faster and uses a lot less memory when doing so. Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 06:23:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA04846 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA04833 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:23:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id PAA14981; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:23:23 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA06997 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:17:33 +0100 Message-Id: <199601291417.PAA06997@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Need new ZMAGIC version of Linux libraries Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:17:32 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, This is beginning to occur more and more. I just tested thot (a wysiwyg word processor) and it crashed on the version of the c-library I have for Linux. I now have libc.so.4.5.26 and libm.so.4.5.26, but thot requires at least a minor version of 6. I already looked around but I can't find ZMAGIC versions, they all seem to be QMAGIC. QMAGIC versions don't work. Is there someone who has these libraries, or could I make them myself if I can get my hands on a Linux system? Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 06:48:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA06190 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:48:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailx.best.com (mailx.best.com [204.156.128.56]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA06185 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:48:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from geli.clusternet (rcarter.vip.best.com [204.156.137.2]) by mailx.best.com (8.6.12/8.6.5) with ESMTP id GAA19328; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:50:24 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by geli.clusternet (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA13790; Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:26:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199601282226.OAA13790@geli.clusternet> X-Authentication-Warning: geli.clusternet: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: John Brann cc: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:21:47 EST." <199601281923.OAA07191@jbrann> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 14:26:43 -0800 From: "Russell L. Carter" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk } owner-hackers-digest@freefall.freebsd.org wrote... } > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- } > } > From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" } > Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 01:21:01 -0800 } > Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff } > } > > I read the Lai/Baker paper: in "Figure 1", FreeBSD kicks some serious } > > butt on context switches -- it appears to be both flat and linear past } > > 200 processes (the limit of the graph in the figure). } > } > Actually, at a later talk it came out that Linux had substantially } > improved this in the current release. However, both this talk and } > Larry McVoy's talk that followed it were wastes of paper and time for } > all concerned. } > } [remainder of Jordan's analysis removed] } [stuff deleted] } I downloaded and read the Lai/Baker paper. I agree that it was clearly } shallow, but I don't think I've ever seen any worthwhile cross-OS or } cross-machine performance comparisons. Anything beyond the grossest } conclusions (Solaris seems a bit slow) are hard to be convincing about. } } What I read into the paper was; } } 1. Linux seems very fast as a standalone system. Much (more) kudos ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ hmmm. } to Linus and his followers. } } 2. FreeBSD is also very fast, with some suggestion that there might } be some things in the filesystem that would benefit from looking } at. } } 3. Solaris bites. (This is influenced by personal prejudice, I } run it at work). } } Something about this clearly got under Jordan's skin, and for the first } time (and I do always try to read as much of his postings / e-mails as } I can) I detected real irritation in his analysis. I'm disappointed in } this, it jarrs with all those "do not get into that Linux vs. FreeBSD } argument" articles of his. Er, but there is this little piece of Unix functionality called "networking". Solaris, FreeBSD, and just about every Unix sold today does it fine. Important parts of Linux networking are lousy. Unusable, even, contrary to McVoy's claims. The contortions used to cover this up, in this article, and for instance in a Usenet posting by Larry where he quotes beta SGI numbers for FDDI to indicate the certainty of a RSN Linux NFS fix irritates *me* occasionally. If Stanford University needs high performance networking testbeds, they should contact Geli Engineering Labs :-) to see about donations of time on systems that will kick some serious networking butt. } } For what it's worth, here are my conclusions after almost a year following } FreeBSD's fortunes. } } 1. FreeBSD is _behind_ Linux in support for many useful features - } devices, threads, ELF and, no doubt, other things. } } 2. FreeBSD is _ahead_ of Linux in focus. For good or ill (and I } think it's good) FreeBSD has a core team which, collectively, } with leadership provided by the normally saintly Jordan, } guides the system forward in a coherent fashion. I don't watch } Linux closely, but the entry of commercialization will probably } fragment the it even further than it has already gone. Oops, I need to add to this list: 3. FreeBSD is _ahead_ of Linux in networking. In fact, it is _ahead_ of Solarix x86 in that regard, if Fast Ethernet is of any interest. } } It's common to read in our mailing lists of people converting from Linux to } FreeBSD. I don't know if the reverse can be read in the Linux groups and } lists, but in any case, FreeBSD must be doing _something_ right. I ^^^^^^^^^^^ Now what on earth could that be? :-) :-) Cheers, Russell From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 06:58:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA06712 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:58:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from westhill.cdrom.com (westhill.cdrom.com [192.216.223.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA06705 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by westhill.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA06085 ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:56:21 -0800 X-Authentication-Warning: westhill.cdrom.com: Host localhost.cdrom.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Gary Palmer Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:11:06 +0100." <199601291411.PAA05532@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:56:21 -0800 Message-ID: <6083.822927381@westhill.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Luigi Rizzo wrote in message ID <199601291411.PAA05532@labinfo.iet.unipi.it>: > I don't question your word. I just want to point out that people > at unix.hensa.ac.uk (and wwwcache.hensa.ac.uk, a national web proxy) > say that they serve over 1 million web documents per day, so they > might have scalability and interoperability problems similar to > yours. Probably not. unix.hensa.ac.uk is designed to serve data to people on the UK academic network (although it is available to the world AFAIK). If people on JANET have broken configurations, they don't have them for long as their own research projects tend to dictate that they stay up to date. They also probably don't have many of the items of equipment that have been highlighted to contain the problematic code (mainly dial-in terminal servers from memory) Yours Gary From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 07:26:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08263 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:26:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA08253 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 07:26:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA07962; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:29:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:29:09 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291529.IAA07962@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Michael Smith Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), Hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Unzip for package tools (was re: FBSD 2.1) In-Reply-To: <199601290618.QAA09670@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> References: <199601290546.WAA07266@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199601290618.QAA09670@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > We have a vendor who will take FreeBSD, remove the networking > > > support, remove the C compiler from their distribution, rebuild everything > > > static, hunt down and dike out everything else even vaguely GPLish, and > > > not rework their installation tools? > > > > Why do you have to remove the networking support? It's also quite easy > > Because otherwise you can say 'connect the system to the internet and > FTP the code'. Please read what I posted. I did, but our application is for used for sites that *aren't* internet connected. :( > > (BTW - I was one of the original proponents of using zip, and still > > think it's by far the best solution available at the present time. I > > just wish we could get a more 'free' ZIP library.) > > I'm 100% in agreement with you here, I just think that you're being > overtly pessimistic about the licensing 8) No, realistically pessimistic. When it comes to legal matters, it's better to be safe than sorry. [ ZIP API for Java ] > Dang. Is their API any good? 8) It looks OK, but they don't use compression inside their zipfiles. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:08:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10405 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:08:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA10399 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:08:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA03369; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:05:18 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601291605.KAA03369@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:05:17 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Jan 29, 96 11:01:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > On Sun, 28 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > > > > Portmasters are junk. If you're going to get a specialized terminal > > > > server, buy an Annex. Or better yet,.... > > Ok, I heard, that Annex should be fine, too. Yes, they're robust units. Pricey though. And still not as flexible as a UNIX box. > > > I would be interested in hearing the rationale behind the claim that > > > portmasters are junk. We kind of went the other way, and bailed on > > > multiport serial cards, with the assorted hassles and such, and went to > > > the portmaster, and they've been a dream. > > > > I've been through this before, I don't really have the time or energy to go > > into it right now, but the Portmasters have caused various problems at every > > site that I am aware of. > > Too bad, _this_ would be interesting for me, since my company > is about to buy such things. Our ISP described those Portmasters > as the best you can get, because of port speed and robustness. Scan the mailing list archives. I'm sure you can find several tirades ;-) > > I've had to work hacks for customers because of Livingston brokenness. > > I see no favorable points for them, aside from their > > relatively low cost, which I would also suggest may actually be a reason > > NOT to buy them. > > I can't believe this, how can experiences differ this much ? Because "marginal" works for some people. I'm not saying Portmasters do NOT work, I am saying that they are problematic little bastards. > > Yes, but if you're an ISP with 50 modems hanging off of two Portmasters, how > > many spare Portmasters do you have in stock? How quickly could you be up > > and running if disaster took one of your PM's offline? Two?? > > It's perhaps a question of service contracts or you really need one > in stock... On the other hand ... how many FreeBSD Boxes do you need, > if you want to handle 50 modem lines ? Ithink this yould be more expensive. I think two at most (32 lines on each?). Some serial solutions would allow more than that but I don't have firsthand experience with them. Keeping one (_______) in stock isn't always a great alternative, particularly when the number of (_______) items is large.. let's keep a Portmaster in stock, a Cisco router, an extra Sun workstation, etc. Expensive! Startup ISP's in particular are extremely low margin businesses, and anything that can be done to help this is something that can promote FreeBSD. The ability to use FreeBSD for such a wide variety of needs could be a very convincing reason for an ISP to go with FreeBSD! > I think two Portmaster with 30 lines aren't that bad .. if one fails, > you still have the other ... Which simply doesn't work. If you have two Portmasters and 50 lines, it's because you NEED the capacity. Taking a 40% cut in your incoming line capacity would be unacceptable to almost any ISP I can think of... > >[...] This FreeBSD stuff is great. [...] > > Agreed. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:17:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10873 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10860 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-110.cdmo.com (dialup-110.cdmo.com [204.141.95.167]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11925; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:16:02 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:16:02 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291616.LAA11925@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Bruce Evans From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >It only needs mgetty if you want to do both incoming and outgoing calls. > So if you're incoming only you can use getty? db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:23:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA11240 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:23:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from seedling.agrium.com ([206.116.47.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11223 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:23:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from calsmtp.agrium.com (calsmtp.agrium.com [172.23.181.216]) by seedling with SMTP (DuhMail/2.0) id JAA03236; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:04:39 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: seedling: Host calsmtp.agrium.com claimed to be agrium.com Received: from CFL-Message_Server by agrium.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:26:28 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:25:58 -0700 From: Paul Blonde To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org Subject: compilers Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I am interested in finding out if there is any effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) an advanced IDE comparable to the Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for FreeBSD and/or Linux. pblonde@agrium.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:34:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12030 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:34:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12002 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:33:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-110.cdmo.com (dialup-110.cdmo.com [204.141.95.167]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA11966; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:33:12 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:33:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291633.LAA11966@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Andreas Klemm From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, dennis wrote: >> This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've answered my >> question......Its the final straw I think in making FreeBSD >> marketable...obviously >> the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades >> board >> needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? > >Dennis, a real ISP buys a fine Terminal Server to handle several >Modem lines. Something like a Livingston Portmaster isn't too >expensive for a real ISP. > >Many Modem lines produce many Interrupts. Outsource this job to >another piece of hardware as an Terminal server. Let FreeBSD be >a good server machine for www an such. a good multiport card offloads the interrupts and produces block streams of data. Thats why I asked the question. A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big selling point for the O/S. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:43:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12558 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:43:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from trout.sri.MT.net (trout.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12541 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:43:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by trout.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA13825 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:43:23 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:43:23 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291643.JAA13825@trout.sri.MT.net> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Net patch for ATAPI driver Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Path: helena.MT.net!news.sprintlink.net!ns.pilot.net!news2.pilot.net!xilinx!neocad.xilinx.com!uucp-1.csn.net!csn!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!kientzle From: kientzle@netcom.com Subject: Patch for `wcd.c' in 2.1R Message-ID: Summary: TOCENTRY mis-handles small requests, leadouts Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 1996 06:07:30 GMT Lines: 70 Sender: kientzle@netcom13.netcom.com Not completely sure who to send this to, but I'm certain someone here can relay this to the right place: I ran into some trouble getting `xcdplayer' to work with an ATAPI CD-ROM drive. Comparing it's operation to `xcd' (which works fine), I narrowed down the problem to the handling of `ioctl(CDIOREADTOCENTRYS)' in `wcd.c'. Briefly, the 2.1R version doesn't honor requests for entry 170 (the leadout entry), and it fails to completely convert from LBA to MSF format for small requests. Here's the patch: %%%%%CUT%HERE%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% *** wcd.c.orig Fri Jan 26 20:30:25 1996 --- wcd.c Sat Jan 27 19:44:13 1996 *************** *** 733,744 **** struct toc buf; u_long len; if (! t->toc.hdr.ending_track) return (EIO); ! if (te->starting_track < toc->hdr.starting_track || ! te->starting_track > toc->hdr.ending_track) return (EINVAL); ! len = (toc->hdr.ending_track - te->starting_track + 2) * sizeof(toc->tab[0]); if (te->data_len < len) --- 733,749 ---- struct toc buf; u_long len; + u_char starting_track = te->starting_track; if (! t->toc.hdr.ending_track) return (EIO); ! ! if (starting_track == 170) /* Handle leadout request */ ! starting_track = toc->hdr.ending_track+1; ! ! if (starting_track < toc->hdr.starting_track || ! starting_track > toc->hdr.ending_track +1 ) return (EINVAL); ! len = (toc->hdr.ending_track - starting_track + 2) * sizeof(toc->tab[0]); if (te->data_len < len) *************** *** 754,763 **** toc = &buf; e = toc->tab + toc->hdr.ending_track - ! te->starting_track + 2; while (--e >= toc->tab) lba2msf (e->addr.lba, &e->addr.msf.minute, &e->addr.msf.second, &e->addr.msf.frame); } ! if (copyout (toc->tab + te->starting_track - toc->hdr.starting_track, te->data, len) != 0) error = EFAULT; --- 759,768 ---- toc = &buf; e = toc->tab + toc->hdr.ending_track - ! toc->hdr.starting_track + 2; while (--e >= toc->tab) lba2msf (e->addr.lba, &e->addr.msf.minute, &e->addr.msf.second, &e->addr.msf.frame); } ! if (copyout (toc->tab + starting_track - toc->hdr.starting_track, te->data, len) != 0) error = EFAULT; %%%%%CUT%HERE%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 08:47:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12845 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:47:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA12838 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 08:47:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id KAA07920 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:47:43 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:47:43 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199601291647.KAA07920@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > First, the Lai/Baker talk spent 9/10ths of its time benchmarking the 3 > various systems (Linux, FreeBSD, Solaris) and going into great and > wonderful detail about how they strove to make each benchmark fair and > complete. That was fine, and I had no problems with it up to that > point when, in the last 1/10th of the talk, in a somewhat bizarre > segue they threw all of the preceeding data out on its ear with the > pat statement that "performance really didn't matter anyway." They > chose Linux because they liked whichever mailing list or IRC channel > they hung out in, and they made no effort to compare the level of > support they'd received with FreeBSD or make any qualitative > statements about it whatsoever. Small wonder, I suppose, since none > of us could remember being contacted by any of the principles either > way. I listened to the talk via the MBONE and could not believe their methodology and that USENIX would accept the paper. I agree with your statement they did not quantify/qualify the Linux/FreeBSD/ Solaris user count and support. They seem to make the implication that only Linux was widely used and had a large base of supporters. That rubbed me the wrong way more than anything else. It seemed the conference had a large Linux bias. In the next talk (by Carl Staelin or was it Larry McVoy from SGI), the speaker said he will not be happy until Linux was running on all machines (a bold statement from a person that is employed by company that sells their own version of Unix). I think the major Unix producers should look at the projected P6 numbers and glowing praise of free unix-clones and (in the words of Staelin/McVoy talking about the P6), "be afraid, be very afraid". --mark. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:09:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14224 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:09:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from chrome.jdl.com (chrome.onramp.net [199.1.166.202]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14218 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chrome.jdl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA02227; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:06:08 -0600 Message-Id: <199601291706.LAA02227@chrome.jdl.com> X-Authentication-Warning: chrome.jdl.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: davidg@Root.COM, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:11:06 +0100." <199601291411.PAA05532@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Clarity-Index: null Threat-Level: none Software-Engineering-Dead-Seriousness: There's no excuse for unreadable code. Net-thought: If you meet the Buddha on the net, put him in your Kill file. Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:06:03 -0600 From: Jon Loeliger Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ RFC 1323 TCP/IP VJ extensions... ] Apparently, Luigi Rizzo scribbled: > I don't question your word. I just want to point out that people > at unix.hensa.ac.uk (and wwwcache.hensa.ac.uk, a national web proxy) > say that they serve over 1 million web documents per day, so they > might have scalability and interoperability problems similar to > yours. > > Two differences, perhaps: > * www documents are often smaller than ftp, and just one per > connection, so it's hard to make a comparison of the traffic; > > * they mostly serve UK clients, so they might have a different view of > the world (read: thei might not have to deal with the same > brokenesses). wcarchive is currently one machine, serving both www and ftp requests, right? A classic approach to solving the problem of making forward progress yet maintaining backward compatibility for a while is to offer dual services. What are the chances of "splitting" wcarchive, for example, into two machines maybe along the www/ftp line and making one of them RFC 1323 aware while keeping the other unaware. Those who are willing/able to move into the future can do so. Certainly, it will be some degree of trouble and cause some headaches with the dual maintenance issues, but it might help to shed light on the general issue too. Anyway, just a thought. jdl From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:10:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14299 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:10:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (root@[206.206.98.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14294 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from scott.cr.usgs.gov (aslpca.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.121.30]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA27266 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:11:59 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960129171805.00dd2060@thuntek.net> X-Sender: thor@thuntek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:18:05 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Scott Halbert Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk At 10:05 AM 1/29/96 -0600, Joe Greco wrote: >I think two at most (32 lines on each?). Some serial solutions would allow >more than that but I don't have firsthand experience with them. Keeping one >(_______) in stock isn't always a great alternative, particularly when the >number of (_______) items is large.. let's keep a Portmaster in stock, a >Cisco router, an extra Sun workstation, etc. Expensive! Startup ISP's in >particular are extremely low margin businesses, and anything that can be >done to help this is something that can promote FreeBSD. The ability to use >FreeBSD for such a wide variety of needs could be a very convincing reason >for an ISP to go with FreeBSD! We are a new FreeBSD based ISP in Albuquerque and have put together a particularly cheap way to do dialin/ppp servers. We have set up a series of small 386 machines each with 4 internal modems. These remote boot off the network and have no disk drives of any kind, just an ethernet card and 4 modems on the bus (usually have a vga card too for diagnostics). So, since you can get 28.8 internal modems from $120 to $180 and usually they are $30 dollars cheaper than externals, and the machine only costs from $200 to $300 (depending on your used sources) the cost per port runs from $170 to $250. I could never get the per port costs of any multiplexer card and external modems to come down to this (maybe it can at huge number of lines), but this is a cheap way to start. You might get what you pay for, but I don't see differences in robustness with other configurations. This way is very modular. I had to patch my sio.c to get it to see my internal modems, but really, it's been working great with 2.1R out of the box. I can't see that its too easy to manage large hunt groups no matter what server configuration you have. I'd like to see some management tools to deal with this (connect to modems and make sure they are properly set up, detect broken modems and busy them out and report them, fish for non-answering lines -- I'm getting out the 'expect' manual). >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 ---Scott Halbert (thor@thuntek.net) Thunder Network Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:18:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14943 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14935 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-110.cdmo.com (dialup-110.cdmo.com [204.141.95.167]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA12052; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:17:28 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:17:28 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291717.MAA12052@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> There are incredible inconsistancies in the "focus" of the core team, and if > >Dennis, > >Our "focus" is driven largely by what people do for us. A bunch of >hackers in Germany decide they want ISDN, they hack on it. I have a >vested interest, being an ISDN user myself, and so perhaps I talk >about it a little more. An incorrect focus? I don't think so. I >think this is just the natural brownian motion that accompanies any >group of volunteers. People do what they WANT to do. Yes, but there is also a constant buzz on getting "exposure" via magazine articles, "spreading the word", and several discussions about "support" networks for FreeBSD...so I don't necessarily buy the argument that FreeBSD is just a toy for its contributors. > >As to the focus on serial drivers in general, you're pretty wrong if >you think they're not important to us or that we haven't spent a lot >of time trying to improve the situation. At least 3 core members have >spent quite a bit of time with Cyclades in ironing out support for >their cards, I've got about 27 calls into Digiboard which have failed >to net much support, and I was the one pushing aggressively for ARNET >(now Digi) support and got John Hay the boards he used to do the port. I didnt say that....but why then should there even be mention of something as childish as a "ban" (like I couldn't find my way back in) by asking a question about the status of such work? > >In comparison to what I've focused on with the rest of the system, I'd >say that multiport serial cards have occupied more of my time than >anything else. I didnt know this...thats why I asked..... > >Like many things, we need help. Since you're making money off of us >now, perhaps you'd consider a donation? The full details on how to do >this are in http://www.freebsd.org/submitters.html. We can always use >hardware or funds to buy hardware in expanding our support for all >types of peripherals. It's a two-way street, Dennis! Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of you. I make NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on FreeBSD...I sell routers at ZERO profit as a service to my board customers. Frankly I could make a lot more selling LINUX, but Ive always put my own opinion ahead of my wallet. We simply have different philosophies on how to earn a living (you draw a salary, dont you?). I feel that in order to make my product as good as it can be I have to spend 100% of my time on it. Which means that I cant do it if I have a job...so this is my job. .I buy myself a job just like all of you that make money consulting on what you learn from your work here. Id contribute if I had the time....but I dont. BTW...I seem to remember offering you hardware for free on more than one occasion...and you declined......if you had a game plan you'd probably get a lot more donations....but as you said, you work on whatever you want...and who's gonna pay for that? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:29:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA15766 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:29:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15761 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:29:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-110.cdmo.com (dialup-110.cdmo.com [204.141.95.167]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA12088; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:27:11 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:27:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291727.MAA12088@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >The only purpose of Nate's mail was to tell you that provocating >flame-wars is not what we would like to see on the mailing list. >Nothing more, but nothing less. > >p.s.: You've widened the auditorium in your reply. I consider this >bad taste, or a violation of commonly agreed terms of a Netiquette. There was/is no resulting "flame war" from my question on serial cards....the only flame war here is a direct result of nate's post to ban me. Perhaps Nate should be banned? Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:36:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16366 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16344 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA03720; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:34:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601291734.KAA03720@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: What printed documentation do we need? To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:34:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, hackers@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Jan 29, 96 12:04:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The following issues should be covered as well > > - Supported Hardware (-stable, -current, near future plans) > - Installation methods [ ... ] Let me second "Installation methods". This weekend, I helped someone install FreeBSD 2.1 using the boot disk from a CDROM and some twiddling. Initially they went to WWW.FreeBSD.ORG, but couldn't easily find the install disks or what to install. There was no top level install.doc, and (checking post-facto) the "get installed" code came in 3 levels deep. This is rather buried. It makes it very difficult for someone to pull the code down for an install. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:36:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16423 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16418 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15832(13)>; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:07 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:36:01 -0800 To: Marxx cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: User built packet header generation In-reply-to: Your message of "Sun, 28 Jan 96 19:26:27 PST." Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:35:57 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Jan29.093601pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message you wr ite: > Has anyone experimented with amnually generating packet headers? >I've done some xpermineting, but ti causes the kernel to panic at >m_copym in /kern/uipc_mbuf.c. Can anyone give em any insight, or a solution? Well, you could look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/traceroute/traceroute.c, which generates its own IP headers. You need to open an IPPROTO_RAW socket, setsockopt(..., IPPROTO_IP, IP_HDRINCL, ...), and then write() a fully formed packet. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 09:41:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16762 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16756 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 09:41:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA03741; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:37:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601291737.KAA03741@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:37:56 -0700 (MST) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> from "David Greenman" at Jan 29, 96 02:04:06 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > >freebsd.cdrom.com > > > >If there are no good reasons, could they be enabled ? > > It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, > and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. I thought it was because it defeated compression for PPP. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 10:04:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18146 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:04:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18017 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:03:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from didier@localhost) by zapata.omnix.fr.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA04045; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:55:47 +0100 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:55:46 +0100 (MET) From: didier@omnix.fr.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Specialix serial boards Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I would like you commends on specialix boards model working with FreeBSD 2.1-stable problems. how to configure...., which device.. thanks for your help -- Didier Derny | Microsoft Free computer... didier@omnix.fr.org | I'm running FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 10:14:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18952 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from interbev.mindspring.com (interbev.mindspring.com [204.180.142.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18942 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rsanders@localhost) by interbev.mindspring.com (8.7.Beta.13/8.7.Beta.2) id NAA26266; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:14:18 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:14:18 -0500 From: Robert Sanders Message-Id: <199601291814.NAA26266@interbev.mindspring.com> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: David Greenman's message of Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:22:43 EST Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? References: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996 06:22:43 EST, David Greenman said: > It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, > and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. > It will remain disabled until such time that 99.999% of the people out > there can deal with TCP extensions. Otherwise, we'll be getting way too many > bug reports. Wcarchive, for example, serves 20000 people a day; I'm sure you > can imagine the extremely high probability that more than one person per day > will run into this problem. :-) I earlier suggested that RFC1323 should be disabled by default in the FreeBSD distribution. In fact, I suggested it for the very same reasons that you disabled the RFC1323 extensions on the machines you maintain. It's even worse to leave the extensions enabled in the distributions; the average new FreeBSD user isn't in the know about the broken TCP stacks out there, and just sees that his shiny new BSD box can't use the network as well as Linux. The only places I see this timebomb mentioned is a cryptic comment in /etc/sysconfig and the FAQ under this heading: 10.10. I'm having problems with my NeXTStep machines and other FreeBSD ones accross PPP ...which may not describe the problem at all. For example, under -current I can't finger an AIX box without disabling RFC1644. No terminal server required. The counter-argument to disabling TCP extensions by default was that it would force vendors to fix their broken TCP stacks. That may be (though I doubt it), but it's much kinder to let our users consciously choose whether to be anti-vendor weapons or have systems that work. If nothing else, at least make this an option at install time or a large red flashing sign saying "WARNING: TCP extensions enabled by default, read manual section XX!" Most users who run into this problem spend hours on it; if you value your time enough (we all do!) to spare yourself the minutes a day it would require to answer the complaints about freefall and wcarchive, please value your users' time enough to spare them the agony of rediscovering this dubious "feature" time and time again. Thank you, and goodnight. You've been a great crowd :-) mountains? molehills? -- Robert From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 10:21:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19418 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:20:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA08459; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:23:12 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:23:12 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291823.LAA08459@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Paul Blonde Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: compilers In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I am interested in finding out if there is any > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > an advanced IDE comparable to the > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > FreeBSD and/or Linux. I'm interested in the results, but don't have time to help implement it. For now, I'm using XEmacs + ddb, which works, but not as well as the PC stuff. (Though I do like having my choice of editors). Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 10:35:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA20563 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:35:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20556 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:35:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA08518; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:37:40 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:37:40 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291837.LAA08518@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199601291717.MAA12052@etinc.com> References: <199601291717.MAA12052@etinc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Like many things, we need help. Since you're making money off of us > >now, perhaps you'd consider a donation? The full details on how to do > >this are in http://www.freebsd.org/submitters.html. We can always use > >hardware or funds to buy hardware in expanding our support for all > >types of peripherals. It's a two-way street, Dennis! > > Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver > for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of > you. I spent *thousands* of hours working on FreeBSD, and I've yet to see any help from you. And, I haven't received a *dime* for all of my work. > I make NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on FreeBSD...I sell routers at ZERO > profit as a service to my board customers. I make NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on FreeBSD, and haven't for over 4 years. What's your point? > if I have a job...so this is my job. .I buy myself a job just like all > of you that make money consulting on what you learn from your work > here. Id contribute if I had the time....but I dont. You've got plenty of time to post insulting comments, so you must have some free time on your hands. Also, you *expect* folks on the list to use their time to answer your questions about setting up FreeBSD boxes to *help* you out, most notably asking questions about getting serial lines working, multi-port serial cards, etc... Again, it's a two way street Dennis, but somehow that doesn't fit into your model, which seems to be 'I get what I want, and when I don't I throw a fit until someone gives me what I want.' Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 10:57:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA21796 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA21790 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 10:57:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA08609; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:00:15 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:00:15 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601291900.MAA08609@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-Reply-To: <199601291737.KAA03741@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> <199601291737.KAA03741@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > > >freebsd.cdrom.com I don't think they affect VJ compression at all. They work on my boxes, but apparently they affect some terminal servers. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:07:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22312 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22298 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA12252; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:06:22 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:06:22 -0500 Message-Id: <199601291906.OAA12252@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Nate Williams From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver >> for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of >> you. > >I spent *thousands* of hours working on FreeBSD, and I've yet to see >any help from you. And, I haven't received a *dime* for all of my work. > >> I make NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on FreeBSD...I sell routers at ZERO >> profit as a service to my board customers. > >I make NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH on FreeBSD, and haven't for over 4 years. >What's your point? I'm a Republican, not a communist....sorry. How much of your employers time do you waste/spend on other projects (like FreeBSD). I'd say you're wasting their time writing this. > >> if I have a job...so this is my job. .I buy myself a job just like all >> of you that make money consulting on what you learn from your work >> here. Id contribute if I had the time....but I dont. > >You've got plenty of time to post insulting comments, so you must have >some free time on your hands. Also, you *expect* folks on the list to >use their time to answer your questions about setting up FreeBSD boxes >to *help* you out, most notably asking questions about getting serial >lines working, multi-port serial cards, etc... If your documentation (ie the serial line setup stuff) wasn't a year out of date.... I wouldnt have to ask questions at all. I only insult as a result of insults. You get more of your share 'cause you're a rude guy who has yet to gain my respect by saying anything worthwhile. >Again, it's a two way street Dennis, but somehow that doesn't fit into >your model, which seems to be 'I get what I want, and when I don't I >throw a fit until someone gives me what I want.' Quit your job and work on it full time Nate...then you can talk. Otherwise you have no perspective. I don't demand anything...I just asked if something worked or not and whether I should use something else. Sorry that you took it as an insult. The question had nothing to do with YOU, so your comments here were uncalled for....you're the one throwing a fit. db PS: Thanks to all of you who've sent me supportive messages for my "contributions". Sorry about all of the babies on the list. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:12:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22953 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:12:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22943 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:12:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04198; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:09:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601291909.MAA04198@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NetBUI and/or IPX routing? To: jhay@mikom.csir.co.za (John Hay) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:09:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601270518.HAA09078@zibbi.mikom.csir.co.za> from "John Hay" at Jan 27, 96 07:18:16 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > A "GetNearestServer" from "IPX client" will elicit a response both > > from "FreeBSD Router" and "NetWare Server2". > > No it should not. Server1 isn't the nearest anymore, so the router should > not respond to a GetNearestServer SAP request from the IPX client. Ah. Here is the problem. A GetNearestServer request is not propagated past the local subnet. It is a special case broadcast NCP. If a router replies, it is not because it is non-local, it's because the router is replying on behalf of the server. That is, the router is replying, Server1 is not replying through the router. Note that if enough clients were already attached to Server2, then Server2 would ignore the request. So it's an error for the router to truncate replies based on the existance of a local server with a smaller hop count. It is more important that the client get a connection than the connection actually be the smallest posible hop count. > > A local server is preferaable to a routed serve because of negotiated > > packet sizes through routers dropping to 512. > > A bigger problem (performance wise) is the extra hop that is incurred for > NCP. Burst mode isn't the whole answer to that. Having 1/3 the packet size is a bigger hit than the additional latency of the multiple hops. I agree that packet-burst only minorly helps latency. It is a fixed window single response protocol. I dislike it immensely, since its intent is to allow a single client to monopolize the wire to improve benchmark performance. On a big net, it causes problems instead of solving them. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:19:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA23424 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:19:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from vie032.sat.co.at (sat.co.at [192.164.66.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23402 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:18:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunwssrv by vie032.sat.co.at (8.6.12/1.57) id TAA00424; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:06:09 +0100 Message-ID: <310D1E3A.7393@sat.co.at> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:21:30 +0100 From: Andreas Pleschutznig Organization: SAT Ges.m.b.H. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b5 (X11; I; SunOS 5.4 sun4m) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: innd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anyone out there in NetWorld who has a precompiled innd ready for freebsd ? andy -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- | Andreas Pleschutznig | Phone +43-1-29129-4969 | | SAT Ges.m.b.H. Wien | Ruthnergasse 1 | | e-mail: andy@sat.co.at | 1210 Wien, Austria | ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:23:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA23735 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:23:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23730 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:23:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA24740; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:20:48 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:20:47 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 100bt cards. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm using smc pci 100bt cards on my Neptune-based P5-90s. I get 50 mbits over tcp when i push hard. QUestion: any comparative numbers for 3com, intel, etc.? any current preferences out there as to smc, 3com, intel, etc? some vendors are now selling 5-packs of the 3c595 for $659, or $130/card. Nice price. If it runs well I'll just get those. ron Ron Minnich |" XNFPREP: ERROR 4007: rminnich@sarnoff.com | Everything in the design was deleted." (609)-734-3120 |Was it something I said? ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:27:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA24057 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:27:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA24052 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id MAA04239; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:24:10 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601291924.MAA04239@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NetBUI and/or IPX routing? To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:24:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601271732.MAA07882@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 27, 96 12:32:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >The GetNearestServer request is a broadcast NCP. It is used by client > >machines starting up to locate a server on the local wire. For a proxy > >response, this would be the machine in the local bindery (SAP broadcast > >information is stored as tempory bindery objects in the local server's > >bindery -- under 4.x, this is done with bindery emulation as a local > >to each server NDS object). > > This is not generally true. A true IPX router maintains a server table > and a routing table and responds to requests directly. All such > requests are handled locally, and traffic is only routed once a > destination network number has been determined. I wouldn't call them > "proxies" per se....they are simply maintaining a map no unlike > some high level routing protocols for the IP world. Well, the one I worked on for Novell... 8-). A router won't respond to NCP requests, like GetNearestServer because it doesn't do NCP. It's not supposed to forward GetNearestServer requests because you don't want every machine up to 16 hops out seeing the request, so you set the hop count limit in the packet. GetNearestServer and SAP are not strictly related. SAP supplies the information to the bindery of servers and servers-acting-as-routers, and only servers-acting-as-servers handle NCP requests. In the case of a GetNearestServer for a remote-reset situation, the server that answers must have a disk image on the server to use as a pseudo "drive A:". Any server that can respond must have such an image, thus if a router claims it is the nearest server, then it must be a full server and not just a router. There are a number of the early "remote-reset" ROMs (the non-Ethernet II ROMs for Ne2000, for instance) that incorrectly looked at the source rather than the response address to get the response. A router doing a "GetNearestServer" response must diddle the source address in the packet for these clients to be happy. Now that said, I'm not saying that the packet forwarding in the IPX routing is not such that it will cause it to work (with potential noise overhead). Your best bet would be to contact Marty (I don't know where he works now) or Jim. Jim (Freeman) worked on the stack code that went into the NWU 4.x product that I worked on at Novell, and is a serious stack guru. His and Marty's code ended up being the baseline code for the UnixWare 2.x IPX code (Marty did the support for the link state routing). Jim Freeman currently works at Caldera (yes, the Linux place). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:51:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26072 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb4.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.164]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA26057 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:51:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA00500; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:31:42 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199601291931.UAA00500@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Searching LCC users/hackers ... To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:31:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601282258.PAA01800@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 28, 96 03:58:48 pm Reply-to: sos@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In reply to Terry Lambert who wrote: > > > So, anybody out there still interested in LCC ??? > > Can you build a kernel with it? Hmm, havn't tried yet as the support for long long isn't quite there yet, but when I get this finished, why shouldn't it... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 11:54:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26313 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from sponsor.octet.com (root@sponsor.octet.com [204.141.97.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26307 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:54:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by sponsor.octet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA10645 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:01 GMT From: Daniel Leeds Message-Id: <199601291440.OAA10645@sponsor.octet.com> Subject: compile prob To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:01 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk okay trying to compile a program/pacakge today this huge bomb happened, and it looks like a lot of problems with a header file... anyone got any clues about this, or how to fix it? ***warning**** the error below is long...i am not trying to spam the list! :) gcc -D_POSIX_SOURCE -I/usr/X11R6/include -DMAXARR=20480 -DHDEV=GR_PS_L -DPS_PRSTR='"lpr -h "' -DGR_HELPFILE='"ACEgr.html"' -DGR_HELPVIEWER='"Mosaic"' -c leaf.c In file included from /usr/include/ctype.h:51, from leaf.c:60: /usr/include/runetype.h:58: parse error before `rune_t' /usr/include/runetype.h:58: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union /usr/include/runetype.h:59: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:60: parse error before `map' /usr/include/runetype.h:60: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:62: parse error before `}' /usr/include/runetype.h:62: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:66: parse error before `_RuneEntry' /usr/include/runetype.h:66: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union /usr/include/runetype.h:67: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:73: parse error before `rune_t' /usr/include/runetype.h:73: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union /usr/include/runetype.h:76: parse error before `char' /usr/include/runetype.h:77: parse error before `invalid_rune' /usr/include/runetype.h:77: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:80: parse error before `maplower' /usr/include/runetype.h:80: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:81: parse error before `mapupper' /usr/include/runetype.h:81: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:88: parse error before `runetype_ext' /usr/include/runetype.h:88: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:89: parse error before `maplower_ext' /usr/include/runetype.h:89: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:90: parse error before `mapupper_ext' /usr/include/runetype.h:90: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:94: parse error before `}' /usr/include/runetype.h:94: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:98: parse error before `_DefaultRuneLocale' /usr/include/runetype.h:98: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/runetype.h:99: parse error before `*' /usr/include/runetype.h:99: warning: data definition has no type or storage class /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__istype': In file included from leaf.c:60: /usr/include/ctype.h:147: request for member `runetype' in something not a structure or union /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__isctype': /usr/include/ctype.h:156: request for member `runetype' in something not a structure or union /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__toupper': /usr/include/ctype.h:165: request for member `mapupper' in something not a structure or union /usr/include/ctype.h: In function `__tolower': /usr/include/ctype.h:174: request for member `maplower' in something not a structure or union *** Error code 1 Stop. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:23:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA29678 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA29665 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:23:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04335; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:21:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292021.NAA04335@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cardsy To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:21:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601271740.MAA07892@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 27, 96 12:40:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >Finally someone in the company i'm working for put an ancient AST "Cluster > >Controller" on my desk, 4 full modem ports equipped with 8250's and just > >one IRQ needed. AST Germany was VERY helpful in getting the dip switch > >settings for this ancient board, it is fully supported by sio and it runs > >without any problems - i'm fully satisfied. > > This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've > answered my question......Its the final straw I think in making > FreeBSD marketable...obviously the AST solution is unacceptable for > a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades board needs mgetty.....whats > the major diff between getty and mgetty? Dennis, you are silly. 8-). The Cyclades board needs mgetty if you run the third party driver because that driver doesn't do the calling unit interlock necessary to make it work bidirectionally using the BSD standard methods. The difference between getty and mgetty is that getty hangs on open pending DCD and mgetty does the open without waiting and reads modem result codes. Really, mgetty wants to be implemented with an open hang pending an RI signal, but not everyone implements RI correctly (namely Apple and NeXT 8 pin din is one pin shy of full modem control and two pins shy of full modem control with RI). Minimum is 9 pins w/o chassis ground. Mgetty also "respects" (quoted because it does the open and sits in select() and isn't quite right because it should check after select comes true, not after the read after select comes true) lock files. So if your outgoing software does port locking using correct (UUCP) lock files, then mgetty will eat some data from the modem (usually result codes from the first dial attempt) then it will back out of the way of the program calling out (if one dial failure can be said to be "out of the way"). Really, you want 3 ports, a modified driver, and an mgetty like program that doesn't do getty stuff itself, instead only multiplexing the port to multiple destinations based on the modem result codes (fax/modem/voice). No one has modified the driver, built the mux, or written the program yet, since you can limp along with mgetty at only minor inconvenience. If anyone wants to get into a full on design discussion, we should take it off the list, since it's already been discussed several times. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:30:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00411 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:30:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from wireless.Stanford.EDU (wireless.Stanford.EDU [36.10.0.102]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00360 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:30:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from lightning.Stanford.EDU (tip-mp17-ncs-14.Stanford.EDU [36.173.1.109]) by wireless.Stanford.EDU (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id MAA26602; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:29:54 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:29:55 -0800 (PST) From: Bora Akyol X-Sender: bora@lightning.Stanford.EDU cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Configuring a queue for sending mail in intervals In-Reply-To: <199601291734.KAA03720@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi everyone I have a system that is modem+ppp connected to the net and I download my user's mail every hour, I would also like to queue emails so that I can upload the emails to an SMTP server via sendmail or whatever. Is there an easy way of doing this? Is there a book out there that explains this? Thanks Bora From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:34:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA00792 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:34:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (slipper101136.iafrica.com [196.7.101.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00765 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:34:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA00449; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:32:39 +0200 From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199601292032.WAA00449@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: compilers To: pblonde@agrium.com (Paul Blonde) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:32:37 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Paul Blonde" at Jan 29, 96 09:25:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Paul Blonde wrote: > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > an advanced IDE comparable to the > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > FreeBSD and/or Linux. Ever heard of Emacs? :-) Seriously, though, by Integrated Development Environment do you mean DOS-based stuff like (I guess this is pretty out of date) Turbo C 2.0 or the Microsoft Programmer's Workbench, or are you talking Windows- based things like Visual C++ or Delphi? I think the DOS-based IDEs were to some extent an attempt to overcome DOS limitations, like lack of multi-tasking and lack of support for inter- process communication. I don't know that there would be much _point_ on Unix. I mean, you can already compile and edit and read man pages at the same time.... On the other hand, I guess it is kind of fun to click on dialog boxes and radio buttons, and resize them and move them around, and let the system write the code for you. That stuff is pretty neat, if it can manage to stay out of your way when you're not interested in the GUI side of things. What do you have in mind? -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:37:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01042 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:37:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01032 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:37:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04370; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:35:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292035.NAA04370@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:35:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601271750.MAA07907@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 27, 96 12:50:29 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I disagree...this is a development list...if there are bugs in the > drivers or they just dont work then its an issue on this list. The driver you are complaing about is third party. > I find it bone-chilling that the selection criteria for a vendor is > based on their willingness to give away information on their boards, > as vendors of poor commercial products are usually the most anxious > to have "somebody...anybody!" use their product. I find it equally bone-chilling that vendors still build portability at the level of real-mode-only-BIOS, especially sice we all know that Windows95 is a product to get software written to the Win32 interface to leverage developers into producing NT-compatible products. It is obvious to the most casual industry observer that BIOS-based drivers are going away for everything but boot-time, and even then there are mumblings of going to OpenFirmware (FORTH) code in ROM on the card for processor and mode independence for card firmware, even for Intel-based machines (see the latest PCI spec, if you don't believe me). Companies like Diamond, whose reluctance to provide programming info stems from their hiring of EE's to write their ROM code so that the PAL inputs for various clock settings for BIOS INT 10 modes are not at standard locations because they expect you to always use BIOS, are about to be screwed by the Microsoft machine. Maybe they will hire a software engineer before it is too late; maybe not. Companies like Adaptec , whose reluctance to provide programming info stems from their (incorrect) assumption that they are gods and boot code is a trade secret (no one gives a damn about boot code -- you run it once and ignore it forever after) and copyright is insuficient to protect their sequencer code... well, they will hold on a while longer. Adaptec, is, after all, the Microsoft of the SCSI world, making defacto instead of reasoned standards, etc.. By virtue of their position, people will build drivers for their products into OS releases. You are welcome to sign NDA and provide drivers and track -current (or less ambitiously, releases), though how you will be able to wedge in boot-critical devices without doing the VM86() support I'm always going off about, I don't know. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:44:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01530 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01500 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:44:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04383; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:41:56 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292041.NAA04383@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:41:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: tim@sssun.spb.su, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601271758.MAA07923@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 27, 96 12:58:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >I think no. Linux have just the same problems with multiport cards as > >FreeBSD. From technical point of view I myself would prefer some > >Digiboard, but because of a very restrictive policy of this company > >on the design of inner parts of card design it's nearly impossible to > >implement a good driver without a NDA. > > How far away is the driver from being "good"? I have no problem with > NDAs? Neither do I, if someone else writes the driver. > Does this hold for all of their boards? or only certain high end ones? The difference between "high end" and "low end" operation of a "high end" board is nothing more than software. It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. Generally vendor supplied drivers (at least in the SCO world) have had a bunch of other "add-ons", like "transparent print" using a finite state automaton based on the attached terminal type to ensure printer data transfers only occur with the terminal in ground state in the terminals internal escape sequence processing automaton. This takes the place of atomic I/O processing of escape sequences and/or dictating allowable terminal types from a set of allowable types (ala DEC's VMS terminal I/O processing). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:48:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA01947 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:48:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA01933 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:48:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04395; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:46:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292046.NAA04395@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:46:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601290025.BAA05001@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 29, 96 01:25:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. > > Hung machines (processes are alive, but context-switch hangs) cause > the modem to pick up the line, but nothing happens. > > Despite of this, i'm still not yet convinced that mgetty is the better > solution. :) A full process table and active mgetty's have the same effect. A bogus shared library and the use of a dynamically linked shell have the same effect. A corrupt shell binary has the same effect. An improper modem setting (improper for mgetty) has the same effect. A lightning hit on a modem has the same effect. If you have a buggered configuration, it is irrelevant how it got that way, only that it IS. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02284 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02277 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:54:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id VAA07922; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:48:36 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601292048.VAA07922@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: User built packet header generation To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:48:36 +0100 (MET) Cc: marxx@mars.superlink.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Jan29.093601pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Jan 29, 96 09:35:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, you could look at /usr/src/usr.sbin/traceroute/traceroute.c, which > generates its own IP headers. You need to open an IPPROTO_RAW socket, > setsockopt(..., IPPROTO_IP, IP_HDRINCL, ...), and then write() a fully > formed packet. > Look for ipsend in the ip_filter package. I believe you can find it at: http://coombs.anu.edu.au/~avalon/ip-filter.html ftp://coombs.anu.edu.au/pub/net/kernel/ip_fil3.0.1.tar.gz The userinterface is horrible though. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 12:57:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA02483 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA02469 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 12:56:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id VAA19652; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:56:09 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id VAA23972; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:56:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id VAA09519; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:45:56 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601292045.VAA09519@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: compilers To: pblonde@agrium.com (Paul Blonde) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:45:56 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Paul Blonde" at Jan 29, 96 09:25:58 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Paul Blonde wrote: > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > an advanced IDE comparable to the > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > FreeBSD and/or Linux. Don't ask us. We will pointing you to things like Emacs otherwise. :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:02:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02832 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:02:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02827 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:01:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04426; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:56:26 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292056.NAA04426@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:56:26 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601290058.LAA08717@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 29, 96 11:28:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > mgetty would be useful as it can > > > actively reply calls instead of modems answering automatically, thus > > > avoiding callers getting modem answer when the terminal server has crashed > > > and won't be there. > > > > A properly configured modem and getty will do this as well. > > No, it won't. There is no hardware feature in the 8250-family UART that > deasserts DTR when the machine has crashed. In fact, I know of no UART > family that meets this criteria. There is a firmware feature. It's called BIOS POST initialization, and it is dependent on you buying good hardware. Your hardware should: 1) Do a hard reset, not a soft reset, on triple fault (this is the problem with not rebooting after shutdown on a machine with a buggered keyboard controller INT 19 interface). 2) POST initialize the UARTs to a known state as a result of a hard reset. This includes disabling FIFO's on UARTs that support them, something fully 90% of all BIOS' get wrong. If you are running a large site, invest $35 in a watchdog reset board. Do it, do it NOW. There are BSD drivers for several of this type of board. > > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. > > In my experience, very few system BIOSses reset DTR, and this isn't the > issue here anyway; if the system has rebooted there's a reasonably good > chance that it'll be back up and running properly shortly. Any BIOS that does PSOT initialization of UARTs will drop DTR. If you are worried about a hard hang requiring a human, invest in a watchdog reset board. If you have that many lines, you can afford it. As a matter of fact, if you have that many lines, you can't afford to *not* have such a board. This is really irrelevant. What is the use of not answering the phone vs. bogusly answering the phone and not talking? Long distance charges? Most US LD companies (not TelAmerica) start charging after 6 seconds, answered or not. Your customer is going to be pissed off by the fact that he did not get service, and won't really give a damn about the failure mode that caused him to not be serviced. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:04:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03043 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:04:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03038 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:04:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04450; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:01:09 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292101.OAA04450@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:01:09 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601290138.DAA07721@katiska.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jan 29, 96 03:38:48 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Rockwell chipset based modems (all the ones I have seen) don't have DTR > option which would allow this. It can either reset itself when DTR goes > off (&D3), but then it will answer the phone even when DTR is off. If it > does not reset itself (&D2), it works correctly with DTR. The lesson is > not to use rockwell based modems, but they didn't have much competition > until last six months. This is not in any of the Rockwell data sheets I have; they all say they reset and won't answer w/o DTR on AT&D3. Do you have a model number? I suspect your modem cable or your port setup in rc.serial. The only real problem I am aware of with Rockwell chipsets is that they cause US Robotics Sportster Faxmodems to lock up when you call one (bet that was an engineering nightmare to get that to happen 8-)). > > If the machine crashes, getty goes away (the POST state on a proper serial > > port is to not assert DTR), and so the modems are not answered. > > If the machine deadlocks, gettys won't go away. At least 1 of four crashes > are deadlocks where the machine freezes. $35 watchdog board. There are drivers. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:11:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03627 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03622 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04469; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:07:04 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292107.OAA04469@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:07:04 -0700 (MST) Cc: gurney_j@efn.org, hsu@clinet.fi, terry@lambert.org, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601290807.KAA21791@katiska.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jan 29, 96 10:07:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > well... the rockwell based modems that I have (the supra line) all > > support the dtr high to low to reset... just do a simple &d3... this > > will have the modem do a soft reset (atz) on dtr loss... this is on both > > the 14.4k and the 28.8k modems of supra.... > > Yes, it will reset itself, but even if you keep DTR down, it will answer > the phone after it has reset itself. I don't know for sure about supras, > but most brands sold here work like this. I worked in UNIX async communications software for 6 years for a company whose product beat out UUCP as "most popular UNIX communications software" There are only 4 modems I know of that do this, and all but one of them is no longer manufactured (and two of them were from Radio Shack and could not handle binary transfers anyway). I think you have a configuration problem unrelated to the d3 setting, possibly hardware. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:14:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03844 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:14:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03839 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:14:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04502; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:12:14 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292112.OAA04502@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:12:14 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291900.MAA08609@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 29, 96 12:00:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert writes: > > > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > > > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > > > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > > > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > > > >freebsd.cdrom.com > > I don't think they affect VJ compression at all. They work on my boxes, > but apparently they affect some terminal servers. I talked about compression. I meant Predictor-1, not VJ. Header compression is, I think, largely irrelvant. I don't know who hou quoted above, but it's not me. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:18:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA04309 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:18:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04277 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:18:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA09292; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:21:09 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:21:09 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601292121.OAA09292@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-Reply-To: <199601292112.OAA04502@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601291900.MAA08609@rocky.sri.MT.net> <199601292112.OAA04502@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > > > > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > > > > > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > > > > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > > > > >freebsd.cdrom.com > > > > I don't think they affect VJ compression at all. They work on my boxes, > > but apparently they affect some terminal servers. > > I talked about compression. I meant Predictor-1, not VJ. Header > compression is, I think, largely irrelvant. > > I don't know who hou quoted above, but it's not me. OK, let's bring in your quote then (I assumed it was you since they said almost the same thing. :) You wrote: > I thought it was because it defeated compression for PPP. AFAIK, the timestamps aren't a problem except for those folks who have broken terminal servers, who are more likely to have problems with PPP than others. I have them turned off on my router box now, but before I hooked it up to my ISP's PortMaster I had timestamps working with user-mode ppp between two FreeBSD boxes. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:25:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA05158 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05145 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04545; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:22:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292122.OAA04545@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: compilers To: rnordier@iafrica.com (Robert Nordier) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:22:21 -0700 (MST) Cc: pblonde@agrium.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601292032.WAA00449@eac.iafrica.com> from "Robert Nordier" at Jan 29, 96 10:32:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Paul Blonde wrote: > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > > an advanced IDE comparable to the > > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > > FreeBSD and/or Linux. [ ... ] > I think the DOS-based IDEs were to some extent an attempt to overcome DOS > limitations, like lack of multi-tasking and lack of support for inter- > process communication. I don't know that there would be much _point_ on > Unix. I mean, you can already compile and edit and read man pages at > the same time.... This is certainly true of source level debuggers, which are primarily there (IMO) because of lack of memory protection and mapping of page 0 preventing fault-trapping of NULL pointer dereferences. In the other hand, the pointer-timeout in the MS debugger is sexy. You put the point on a variable in the cose window, wait a second, and it displays the value of that variable. The ability to click on a compiler error for a multifile project and have it pull up an editor with the curs at the offending location in the correct source file is also nice. The ability to "auto-generate" makefiles with all dependencies is nice. Many programmers (all right, not me) don't want to know what the Makefile syntax is; they just want it to work. The application builder is nice. It would require the adoption of a standard GUI library to make it work in BSD, but it may be worth it. The ability to click on functions and manifest constants, etc., and go between their references and their declaration is nice. The same for displaying the value for manifest constants. The ability to have debugging and non-debugging targets from a single pop-down menu selection is nice. The man page interface is so-so -- I prefer DEC's LSE for that. 8-). Class libraries for things like SQL clients is a biggie (UNIX ODB sources were posted to comp.unix.sources a while back). > On the other hand, I guess it is kind of fun to click on dialog boxes and > radio buttons, and resize them and move them around, and let the system > write the code for you. That stuff is pretty neat, if it can manage to > stay out of your way when you're not interested in the GUI side of things. An IDE means that a programmer doesn't have to know a lot of the details of the platform before they can start coding and end up with things that run. This is, I think, an overriding benefit. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:28:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA05462 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:28:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA05388 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:28:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04561; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:25:12 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292125.OAA04561@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:25:11 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, nate@sri.MT.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601292121.OAA09292@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 29, 96 02:21:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > OK, let's bring in your quote then (I assumed it was you since they said > almost the same thing. :) > > You wrote: > > > I thought it was because it defeated compression for PPP. > > AFAIK, the timestamps aren't a problem except for those folks who have > broken terminal servers, who are more likely to have problems with PPP > than others. > > I have them turned off on my router box now, but before I hooked it up > to my ISP's PortMaster I had timestamps working with user-mode ppp > between two FreeBSD boxes. Yeah. It has to do with how much of the packet header for the last packet is diffed for it to constitue an undeltable change. The specific posting I was thinking of was a compressed packet count comparison between Linux and FreeBSD that someone posted about a week ago (I can probably dig it up if you need it). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:43:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA06762 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:43:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06751 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04613; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:36:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601292136.OAA04613@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: [FCC Warning!] The Dangerous effect of Direct TV !! To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:36:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, james@miller.cs.uwm.edu, dufault@hda.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, multimedia@rah.star-gate.com In-Reply-To: <199601290803.JAA04923@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Jan 29, 96 09:03:15 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Consider a few things: > > * why should the VRAM be cacheable in the first place, given that the > video chipset is doing all sorts of things on it. It probably shouldn't. How do you tell the system to not cache it and be obeyed if you have a Cyrix/TI? How about a HiNT? An old OPTi chipset? > * often both the grabber and the video board are on the same PCI bus. This is a good thing. > * every location is written by the grabber only once per frame. This is, however, irrelvant. > * one frame does not fit into 256K of cache I have 512k of cache. This also neglects things like MPEG delta transfers instead of full frame copies (though you personally might not be interested in playing mpeg data the same way, I am). > --> we should not bother too much about the problem mentioned by Terry. I just mention it because it occurred to me it might be a problem; that there isn't an answer is OK with me, but it shouldn't be ignored unless it's been ruled out. That doesn't mean bothering with it now. Note that the bus-master/cache interaction could be a problem for frame grab DMA into the machine rather than direct to the video card for cards that don't support mapping as linear frame buffers. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 13:55:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA07621 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:55:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from rk.ios.com (rk.ios.com [198.4.75.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA07607 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 13:55:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rashid@localhost) by rk.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id QAA28150 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:51:12 -0500 From: Rashid Karimov Message-Id: <199601292151.QAA28150@rk.ios.com> Subject: wuftpd and (ls) zombies To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:51:12 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi there folx, I've just mentioned on a few systems here 5-8 zombie processes per server - all of them are zombies left by wuftpd(this is the only process run by ftp): ftp 19855 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?? Z - 0:00.00 (ls) ftp 16436 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?? Z - 0:00.00 (ls) ftp 8748 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?? Z - 0:00.00 (ls) ftp 964 0.0 0.0 0 0 ?? Z - 0:00.00 (ls) Did some1 here mention something like this ? Any cure ? Rashid From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:11:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08802 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA08788 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:11:41 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA04307; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:09:32 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601292209.QAA04307@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:09:32 -0600 (CST) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601291633.LAA11966@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 29, 96 11:33:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to > provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big > selling point for the O/S. That resembles what I'm doing here at MEI with the engineering dial-in pool... 4 AT&T Paradyne DataPort 14.4 modems on a hunt. The box? A FreeBSD 2.0.5R 386DX/16. Extra benefit: the lines can be used for outdials too!! ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:13:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09000 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:13:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08979 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:13:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA09660; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:15:42 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:15:42 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601292215.PAA09660@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compilers In-Reply-To: <199601292122.OAA04545@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601292032.WAA00449@eac.iafrica.com> <199601292122.OAA04545@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk [ Sexy Integrated Development Environment ] > > The ability to click on a compiler error for a multifile project and have > it pull up an editor with the curs at the offending location in the > correct source file is also nice. You can do this inside of XEmacs now. > The ability to "auto-generate" makefiles with all dependencies is nice. > Many programmers (all right, not me) don't want to know what the Makefile > syntax is; they just want it to work. I used these things in the past, but unfortunately none of the tools I used generated 'Makefiles', but instead Project or some other propriatory files which were only useful on a particular compiler/platform. (It's been awhile since I've used PC tools though..) > The application builder is nice. It would require the adoption of a > standard GUI library to make it work in BSD, but it may be worth it. GUI builders exist for Unix, but again they aren't integrated into the environment. > An IDE means that a programmer doesn't have to know a lot of the details > of the platform before they can start coding and end up with things that > run. This is, I think, an overriding benefit. Not only the platform, you can avoid the idiosyncracies of the tools themselves. However, the *biggest* problem with IDE's is that the 'editor' that drives them is never configurable enough. I always want to be able to use the same macros and setup that I've built up through the years with my editor. :( Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:16:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09238 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09198 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:16:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id QAA04335; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:14:54 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601292214.QAA04335@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: scott@thuntek.net (Scott Halbert) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:14:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960129171805.00dd2060@thuntek.net> from "Scott Halbert" at Jan 29, 96 10:18:05 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > We are a new FreeBSD based ISP in Albuquerque and have put together a > particularly cheap way to do dialin/ppp servers. We have set up a series of > small 386 machines each with 4 internal modems. These remote boot off the > network and have no disk drives of any kind, just an ethernet card and 4 > modems on the bus (usually have a vga card too for diagnostics). Oh now THAT is disgustingly economical!! I applaud your ingenuity. I ran a diskless terminal server for a while myself, thought I was the only wierdo who would think to do something that odd... :-) > I had to patch my sio.c to get it to see my internal modems, but really, it's > been working great with 2.1R out of the box. I can't see that its too easy to > manage large hunt groups no matter what server configuration you have. I'd like > to see some management tools to deal with this (connect to modems and make sure > they are properly set up, detect broken modems and busy them out and report > them, fish for non-answering lines -- I'm getting out the 'expect' manual). I've the start of a program that simply performs a mass initialization on a bunch of modems, it can handle different types and is essentially a trivial "send/expect" thing. If this is of general interest, let me know. Setting up 4 lines at a time might be a tad painful :-) and I tend to like external modems anyways. Nevertheless, keep up the creative solutions. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:40:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16605 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (slipper101133.iafrica.com [196.7.101.133]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16484 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA00768; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:35:38 +0200 From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199601292235.AAA00768@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: compilers To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:35:35 +0200 (SAT) Cc: pblonde@agrium.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601292122.OAA04545@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 29, 96 02:22:21 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > In the other hand, the pointer-timeout in the MS debugger is sexy. You > put the point on a variable in the cose window, wait a second, and it > displays the value of that variable. > > The ability to click on a compiler error for a multifile project and have > it pull up an editor with the curs at the offending location in the > correct source file is also nice. You make some good points, which also reminded me how long it's been since I've used any of this stuff. And I agree particularly that it is nice to be able to get at all sorts of completely different information about a project (even at different logical levels) and have it there together in a fairly coherent way. > Class libraries for things like SQL clients is a biggie (UNIX ODB sources > were posted to comp.unix.sources a while back). I'm interested you should say this; though I guess I'm probably thinking of it at the wrong level. (I did some consulting the other week for a client who happened also to be using Borland's Delphi to develop something on InterBase.) I was sort of under the impression that SQL was mostly used in a "pass through" mode, where it was up to the server to parse and execute it, and (as client) you just suck back the data. Though one of the things I did for them (I was actually there for something completely different) was to knock up code to generate SQL statements so that they could fill list boxes with an arbitrary subset of columns from an arbitrary set of tables. But even the Delphi methods I noticed seemed pretty procedural: find_row, skip_to_next_row, or whatever. Obviously this isn't the sort of stuff you are referring to. I guess I should look at comp.unix.sources, but what, roughly, is the sort of framework that has to be implemented here? > An IDE means that a programmer doesn't have to know a lot of the details > of the platform before they can start coding and end up with things that > run. This is, I think, an overriding benefit. Agreed. -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:46:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17237 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17221 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA11626; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:55 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:54 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk The RA beta is out for linux, and I would like to try it, but only if there's a slight chance it will work... :) From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:49:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17535 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17529 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:49:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from plentium.clinet.fi (root@plentium.clinet.fi [194.100.0.7]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id AAA25743; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:49:29 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by plentium.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id AAA19955; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:54:25 +0200 (EET) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:54:25 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199601292254.AAA19955@plentium.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: "John S. Dyson" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: "John S. Dyson"'s message of 29 Jan 1996 07:17:37 +0200 Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland References: <199601290003.AAA08266@dyson.iquest.net> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk One interesting note, I benchmark FreeBSD vs. Linux (and used to SVR4) regularly in order to evaluate places where performance might/should be improved. I am *brutal* to FreeBSD, but it is getting difficult to find places where it can easily be improved (some of the performance "nits" are due to differences in philosophy and not actual performance problems.) With the latest pipe improvements, I am running out of steam. Indeed, my goal is to "find" performance problems. If anyone has a "cache" of programs to show performance bottlenecks, please email them to me. They will be used to improve FreeBSD's performance, and if I don't do it, DG, BDE or someone else will work on the code. There is another layer of improvements that I have been thinking about, but those require more involved work, and I want to work on easier stuff right now :-). Brain vacation time :-). I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark professionals value the most. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi work +358-0-4375209 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 14:51:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA17709 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:51:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA17699 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:51:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id QAA27760; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:51:14 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601292251.QAA27760@mpp.minn.net> Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:51:14 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291900.MAA08609@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 29, 96 12:00:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > > >I was wondering why RFC1323 timestamps are disabled on both freefall > > > >and freebsd.cdrom.com > > > > > > > >I know one reason not to have them is that they defeat VJ header > > > >compression, but I don't see the point in having them disabled on > > > >freebsd.cdrom.com > > I don't think they affect VJ compression at all. They work on my boxes, > but apparently they affect some terminal servers. In tests I've done, disabling RFC1323 seems to improve latency over slow PPP/SLIP links. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 15:06:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19120 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19109 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA09994; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:06:41 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:06:41 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601292306.QAA09994@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601292035.NAA04370@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601271750.MAA07907@etinc.com> <199601292035.NAA04370@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > Companies like Diamond, whose reluctance to provide programming info > stems from their hiring of EE's to write their ROM code ... ... > Maybe they will hire a software engineer before it is too late; maybe > not. Are you saying that EE's are not software engineers, because I take offense at that. Some of the best software engineers I know have EE degrees (and don't have CS degrees BTW). (-: :-) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 15:19:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20215 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20196 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA02127; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:19:12 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA22643 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:17:51 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA02972 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:31:56 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA00763; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:38:02 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601291838.TAA00763@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: ppp server To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:38:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, didier@aida.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Jan 28, 96 03:15:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Gentlemen, The discussions start to look like some flame fest. Could we all make peace? Please? Thank you, _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 15:19:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20305 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:19:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from seedling.agrium.com ([206.116.47.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20283 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from calsmtp.agrium.com (calsmtp.agrium.com [172.23.181.216]) by seedling with SMTP (DuhMail/2.0) id PAA10552; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:57:07 -0700 X-Authentication-Warning: seedling: Host calsmtp.agrium.com claimed to be agrium.com Received: from CFL-Message_Server by agrium.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:22:40 -0700 Message-Id: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 4.1 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:22:14 -0700 From: Paul Blonde To: rnordier@iafrica.com, terry@lambert.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compilers -Reply Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk The one thing I would _love_ to see is an extensible GUI IDE. Even Borland/Microsoft only supports this in a limited manner. Example, your IDE supports editing of multiple files, but what about simultaneous compilation of 2 complete projects in the same session? Can't do it yet? Write your own code for it! Actually, that wouldn't bee all that hard, _if_ the capability was there. pblonde@agrium.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 15:25:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA21181 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA21159 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 15:25:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id KAA11959; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:08:04 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601292338.KAA11959@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: compilers To: pblonde@agrium.com (Paul Blonde) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:08:03 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Paul Blonde" at Jan 29, 96 09:25:58 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Paul Blonde stands accused of saying: > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > an advanced IDE comparable to the > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > FreeBSD and/or Linux. Like xemacs? 8) > pblonde@agrium.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 16:04:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25121 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:04:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay5.UU.NET (relay5.UU.NET [192.48.96.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA25102 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:04:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from uucp3.UU.NET by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaarg09946; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:04:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from uanet.UUCP by uucp3.UU.NET with UUCP/RMAIL ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:04:28 -0500 Received: by crocodil.monolit.kiev.ua; Tue, 30 Jan 96 01:27:09 +0200 Received: (from dk@localhost) by dog.farm.org (8.6.11/dk#3) id BAA12731; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:27:47 +0200 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:27:47 +0200 From: Dmitry Kohmanyuk Message-Id: <199601292327.BAA12731@dog.farm.org> To: jmacd@CS.Berkeley.EDU (Josh MacDonald) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sticky directory symlinks Newsgroups: cs-monolit.gated.lists.freebsd.hackers Reply-To: dk+@ua.net X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article you wrote: > I apologize if this has been discussed before, though I couldn't > find anything on the subject. I asked a NetBSD user and he said > he recalled some discussion on this topic but didn't recall the > results. I just encountered the following problem: > axis-/tmp % ls -ld . > drwxrwsrwt 4 root wheel 512 Jan 25 00:46 ./ > axis-/tmp % ln -s this sucks > axis-/tmp % ls -l sucks > lrwxrwsrwt 1 root wheel 4 Jan 25 00:46 sucks@ -> this > axis-/tmp % rm sucks > rm: sucks: Operation not permitted > /tmp is mode 1777 and when I create a symlink I can't remove it. > I notice that the link shares the sticky dirs inode. I think from my understanding, 4.4BSD doesn't have any inode info for symlink, but rather inherits the information from directory containing the symlink. >From the symlink(7) manual page: Unlike other filesystem objects, symbolic links do not have an owner, group, permissions, access and modification times, etc. The only at- tributes returned from an lstat(2) that refer to the symbolic link itself are the file type (S_IFLNK), size, blocks, and link count (always 1). The other attributes are filled in from the directory that contains the link. For portability reasons, you should be aware that other implemen- tations (including historic implementations of 4BSD), implement symbolic links such that they have the same attributes as any other file. see /sys/kern/vfs_syscalls.c:lstat() for the actual code. > this is very very bad. I guess that an optimization is made > where the linkname is kept in the directory file instead of > on disk but if its a sticky directory, then I can't remove > something I create. That sucks a lot. Has this been brought > up before? another 4.4BSD optimization is that for short symlinks, the name of the link is stored in the inode instead of inside of separate disk block if it is sufficiently short to fit there (struct mount->mnt_maxsymlinklen). (the code is in /sys/ufs/ufs/ufs_vnops.c). But this is irrelevant here. -- No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife in the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 16:21:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26531 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26517 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id QAA18513; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:13 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199601300020.QAA18513@netcom14.netcom.com> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk You probably want to subscribe to : mail multimedia@rah.star-gate.com subscribe multimedia And please give us a pointer to the RA beta software . We have had great success with the Linux version of DOOM and I see no reason why RA (RealAudio) will not work also on FreeBSD. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 16:39:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28050 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA28039 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:39:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA12325; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:20:38 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601300050.LAA12325@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: compilers To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:20:37 +1030 (CST) Cc: rnordier@iafrica.com, pblonde@agrium.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601292122.OAA04545@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 29, 96 02:22:21 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > In the other hand, the pointer-timeout in the MS debugger is sexy. You > put the point on a variable in the cose window, wait a second, and it > displays the value of that variable. ddd (and less intuitively) gdb do this. > The ability to click on a compiler error for a multifile project and have > it pull up an editor with the curs at the offending location in the > correct source file is also nice. Emacs' compile mode does this. > The ability to "auto-generate" makefiles with all dependencies is nice. > Many programmers (all right, not me) don't want to know what the Makefile > syntax is; they just want it to work. The BSD makefile templates take care of much of this. > The application builder is nice. It would require the adoption of a > standard GUI library to make it work in BSD, but it may be worth it. Indeed. Or for one of the Tk GUI designers to actually work 8) > The ability to click on functions and manifest constants, etc., and > go between their references and their declaration is nice. The same > for displaying the value for manifest constants. Many of the emacs language modes do this, IIRC. > The man page interface is so-so -- I prefer DEC's LSE for that. 8-). Not to mention the expanding program templates. I'm homesick already 8) > An IDE means that a programmer doesn't have to know a lot of the details > of the platform before they can start coding and end up with things that > run. This is, I think, an overriding benefit. Er, no. An IDE means all the tools that the programmer uses to produce the end product are hung off the same set of menus. Lucid/Xemacs was developed heading in this direction. Whilst some of the tools that would be required are decidedly nontrivial, it _is_ the logical starting point. (And a great discouragement for anyone not familiar with lisp 8( ) > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 16:57:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29379 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:57:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29369 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA05935; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:55:49 -0800 To: Joe Greco cc: scott@thuntek.net (Scott Halbert), hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:14:53 CST." <199601292214.QAA04335@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:55:49 -0800 Message-ID: <5929.822963349@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Oh now THAT is disgustingly economical!! I applaud your ingenuity. I ran a > diskless terminal server for a while myself, thought I was the only wierdo > who would think to do something that odd... :-) I agree - I was kind of impressed when I read this. What's that make a 4 modem increment cost, about $1500 all in? I don't know what kind of modem cards are being used here so that's just a WAG. I've never purchased a terminal mux, either, so I don't even know if this would be competitive? Do you have these guys set up to advertise the modems at some IP port range as well for outgoing stuff, or is that purely incoming? You could do some interesting resource pooling with a few cooperating daemons.. Hmmmm... [stares off into space for awhile :-] Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 16:59:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29485 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:59:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29473 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06859; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:56:52 -0800 To: Nate Williams cc: Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:06:41 MST." <199601292306.QAA09994@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:56:52 -0800 Message-ID: <6857.822963412@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Are you saying that EE's are not software engineers, because I take Darn straight! "Never trust a programmer who's a little too comfortable with a soldering iron." :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 17:14:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01496 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:14:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (aspen.woc.atinc.com [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA01485 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:14:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA20922; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:13:32 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:13:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Bora Akyol cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Configuring a queue for sending mail in intervals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Bora Akyol wrote: > I have a system that is modem+ppp connected to the net and I download my > user's mail every hour, I would also like to queue emails so that I can > upload the emails to an SMTP server via sendmail or whatever. Is there an > easy way of doing this? queue the mail, dont attempt delivery? in /etc/sendmail.cf replace 'Odbackground' with 'Odqueued' [sendmail p503]. invoke /usr/sbin/sendmail with a '-q1h' to specify the a periodic delivery interval. (or use m for minutes, h for hours. 1 is the number of units: hours or minutes) [sendmail p259]. if you upload mail, irregularly use '/usr/sbin/sendmail -q' each time that you connect. > Is there a book out there that explains this? sendmail by bryan costales, o'reilly & assoc. nearly 800 pages. Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 17:37:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA04358 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:37:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from bessel.nando.net (rajp@bessel.nando.net [152.52.2.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA04337 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rajp@localhost) by bessel.nando.net (8.7.3/8.7.1) id UAA03208 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:37:39 -0500 (EST) From: rajp Message-Id: <199601300137.UAA03208@bessel.nando.net> Subject: Interested! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:37:38 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, I saw the installation document for freebsd 2.0.5. What i have noticed browsing the web is that there is not as much wealth of software/info as there is about linux. >From mypoint of view this means that there is a lot of work to do to bring freebsd even close to what linux is right now. I am interested in joining the freebsd effort. I have very limited "hacking" experience but i definitely want to increase this experience. So i am writing to you. I would be interested in some device driver kind of work. If you think that i can do something for the freebsd effort, do reply to me. Also if you need more info about myself: i am basically from india, currently on an assignment to ibm in the rtp, north carolina, usa. I have done my masters in CS from Indian Institute of Science (it is equivalent to the IITs of india, in case you have heard of them). Any more info, ask away. -Raj From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 17:49:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA05607 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:49:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05597 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 17:49:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA12915; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:47:37 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:47:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199601300147.UAA12915@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to >> provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big >> selling point for the O/S. > >That resembles what I'm doing here at MEI with the engineering dial-in >pool... 4 AT&T Paradyne DataPort 14.4 modems on a hunt. The box? A >FreeBSD 2.0.5R 386DX/16. Extra benefit: the lines can be used for outdials >too!! A brand new 486SLC-33 MB is 42 bucks (last time I checked)....more than twice as fast as 386DX/16..... dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 18:31:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA08875 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:31:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (aspen.woc.atinc.com [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA08859 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA21013; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:30:34 -0500 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:30:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Nate Williams , Terry Lambert , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <6857.822963412@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > Are you saying that EE's are not software engineers, because I take > > Darn straight! "Never trust a programmer who's a little too > comfortable with a soldering iron." when you are about to sit down >8) Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 18:40:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA09870 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA09827 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:40:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA12777; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:21:51 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601300251.NAA12777@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:21:50 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601292056.NAA04426@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 29, 96 01:56:26 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > No, it won't. There is no hardware feature in the 8250-family UART that > > deasserts DTR when the machine has crashed. In fact, I know of no UART > > family that meets this criteria. > > There is a firmware feature. It's called BIOS POST initialization, and > it is dependent on you buying good hardware. Your hardware should: > > 1) Do a hard reset, not a soft reset, on triple fault (this is the > problem with not rebooting after shutdown on a machine with a > buggered keyboard controller INT 19 interface). This doesn't help if your system dies from another fault (eg. locked hardware). > If you are running a large site, invest $35 in a watchdog reset board. > Do it, do it NOW. There are BSD drivers for several of this type of > board. If you have a source for the $35 variant, I'd love to see it. The only reference I managed to track down was for a $400 product, which unsurprisingly failed to enthuse me. Currently I install 8-port relay boards in a nominated 'stable' system, and run lines from the motherboard reset pins to the relays. Crude, but _very_ effective. (Until someone runs the 'cylon' program I use to test the cards 8) > Any BIOS that does PSOT initialization of UARTs will drop DTR. As already observed, if you get far enough to have the POST happening, you're fine, however this is _not_ the situation that's of interest here. > This is really irrelevant. What is the use of not answering the phone > vs. bogusly answering the phone and not talking? Long distance charges? USERS. Count yourself _fortunate_ that you don't have to deal with them. > Most US LD companies (not TelAmerica) start charging after 6 seconds, > answered or not. Your customer is going to be pissed off by the fact > that he did not get service, and won't really give a damn about the > failure mode that caused him to not be serviced. Observed behaviour here is much to the contrary, I'm afraid to say. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 18:45:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA10455 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:45:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10380 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:44:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA14467; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:41 +1100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:41 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601300237.NAA14467@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, dennis@etinc.com Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >>It only needs mgetty if you want to do both incoming and outgoing calls. >> >So if you're incoming only you can use getty? Probably. The restriction only applies to the cyb and the 2.0.5 cy drivers. The 2.1 cy driver supports bidirectional ports. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 18:53:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA11801 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA11780 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:53:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05385; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:50:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601300250.TAA05385@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:50:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601292306.QAA09994@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 29, 96 04:06:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Companies like Diamond, whose reluctance to provide programming info > > stems from their hiring of EE's to write their ROM code ... > ... > > > Maybe they will hire a software engineer before it is too late; maybe > > not. > > Are you saying that EE's are not software engineers, because I take > offense at that. Some of the best software engineers I know have EE > degrees (and don't have CS degrees BTW). Some of the best ones I know are HE or Solid State Physicists. 8-). The problem is not the ability to solve problems (which I think comes from teaching critical thinking skills and so all hard science types have an edge). The problem *is* that for a hardware company, software is always second fiddle to the hardware, and is used to "fix the hardware" instead of being written to be software. That leads to a tendency to take the first thing that seems to work as final product. Software, unlike Hardware, is not necessarily good just because it survives burn-in. 8-). A *good* video BIOS would work in protected mode or real mode and not care. If the programmer was truly a weenie, he'd give you an alternate entry point for all INT 10 calls that would work in protected mode as well as the ones that wouldn't so he could save his push/push/pop/pop in the "real mode" case. A *good* video BIOS would have a JMP followed by a structure that has a version number (in case) and is otherwise expected to be the same on all cards so the protected mode driver doesn't have to be rewritten for each release. A *good* video BIOS waits for veritcal blank instead of disabling interrupts to get rid of "sparklies" on non-dual-ported RAM access (cv: some ATI and Paradise VGA cards). Disabling interrupts might be OK if all you are doing is video I/O, but it sucks if you are using the console on a 100Mb/S router, etc.. Anyway, you get the idea -- I don't need to redesign Diamond's BIOS for them here (they need to hire someone who understands modular design principles to do it, since the guy who did it last time screwed up). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 18:59:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA12455 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12445 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 18:59:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA05407; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:55:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601300255.TAA05407@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:55:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300251.NAA12777@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 30, 96 01:21:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > 1) Do a hard reset, not a soft reset, on triple fault (this is the > > problem with not rebooting after shutdown on a machine with a > > buggered keyboard controller INT 19 interface). > > This doesn't help if your system dies from another fault (eg. locked > hardware). I submit that if you have this happen, you *want* a phone call. > > If you are running a large site, invest $35 in a watchdog reset board. > > Do it, do it NOW. There are BSD drivers for several of this type of > > board. > > If you have a source for the $35 variant, I'd love to see it. The only > reference I managed to track down was for a $400 product, which unsurprisingly > failed to enthuse me. Currently I install 8-port relay boards in a > nominated 'stable' system, and run lines from the motherboard reset pins > to the relays. Crude, but _very_ effective. (Until someone runs the > 'cylon' program I use to test the cards 8) One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. > > This is really irrelevant. What is the use of not answering the phone > > vs. bogusly answering the phone and not talking? Long distance charges? > > USERS. Count yourself _fortunate_ that you don't have to deal with them. I've had to deal with them -- are you, indeed, claiming LD charges? > > Most US LD companies (not TelAmerica) start charging after 6 seconds, > > answered or not. Your customer is going to be pissed off by the fact > > that he did not get service, and won't really give a damn about the > > failure mode that caused him to not be serviced. > > Observed behaviour here is much to the contrary, I'm afraid to say. You're right. He'll ask you what happened, then he'll ask you to make it not happen again. So you'll fix the "answers phone but no one there" problem by substituting the "doesn't answer phone" problem. How do you fix the "doesn't answer phone" problem? If your hardware burns down, your customer is going to squawk, period. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:05:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13134 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:05:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13122 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:05:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA05437; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:03:15 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601300303.UAA05437@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: compilers To: rnordier@iafrica.com (Robert Nordier) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:03:15 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, pblonde@agrium.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601292235.AAA00768@eac.iafrica.com> from "Robert Nordier" at Jan 30, 96 00:35:35 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Class libraries for things like SQL clients is a biggie (UNIX ODB sources > > were posted to comp.unix.sources a while back). [ ... ] > But even the Delphi methods I noticed seemed pretty procedural: find_row, > skip_to_next_row, or whatever. Obviously this isn't the sort of stuff you > are referring to. I guess I should look at comp.unix.sources, but what, > roughly, is the sort of framework that has to be implemented here? Delphi for FreeBSD would be nice. 8-). The ODB mechanism abstracts the databse from the program and treats it as a series of objects. The objects are the same for any type of local datapase program, and are the same over the wire for SQL transactions. That is, the program and the data store are entirely seperate. That way, if Sybase pisses you off, you can buy from Oracle without having to rewrite one line of client code (just a recompile). Or vice versa, if Oracle pisses you off. It's part of the MIS dream of plugging Legos(tm) together and firing all the programmers. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:09:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13441 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:09:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13434 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:09:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa04640; 29 Jan 96 19:09 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:01:55 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: Greg Ungerer X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601301101.aa20450@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk dennis wrote (hmmm, are these attributions right, sorry if not): >>On Sat, 27 Jan 1996, dennis wrote: >>> This scenario is frightening to me....although I think that you've >answered my >>> question......Its the final straw I think in making FreeBSD >>> marketable...obviously >>> the AST solution is unacceptable for a real ISP....I wonder why the cyclades >>> board >>> needs mgetty.....whats the major diff between getty and mgetty? >> >>Dennis, a real ISP buys a fine Terminal Server to handle several >>Modem lines. Something like a Livingston Portmaster isn't too >>expensive for a real ISP. >> >>Many Modem lines produce many Interrupts. Outsource this job to >>another piece of hardware as an Terminal server. Let FreeBSD be >>a good server machine for www an such. > >a good multiport card offloads the interrupts and produces block streams >of data. Thats why I asked the question. > >A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to >provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big >selling point for the O/S. > Well I know lots of real ISP's that don't use terminal servers, they use real intelligent mulitport boards. Boards that do offload everything, all serial interrupts, flow control and have large memory buffers (like 5K or 6K for each of RX and TX per port). These are not toy ISP's either they are serious players, some have more than 64 high speed modems per system. Let me back this up with some numbers, a Stallion EasyConnection 8/64 ISA (which is powered by a 25MHz 186 with 512K RAM) uses about 0.1% host CPU per kbyte output (test done on a commercial UNIX flavor, Pentium 90, 32M RAM). The EISA bus version of the board does even better (32 bit writes of data sure help). Don't get me wrong though, they are good for small ISP's as well :-) Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:09:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13461 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:09:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13454 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:09:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id ac04640; 29 Jan 96 19:09 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:43 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: Greg Ungerer X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601301121.aa20625@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: >> >I think no. Linux have just the same problems with multiport cards as >> >FreeBSD. From technical point of view I myself would prefer some >> >Digiboard, but because of a very restrictive policy of this company >> >on the design of inner parts of card design it's nearly impossible to >> >implement a good driver without a NDA. To go back a couple points... I would say (having written multiport drivers for both Linux and FreeBSD) that the problems are the same. >> >> How far away is the driver from being "good"? I have no problem with >> NDAs? > >Neither do I, if someone else writes the driver. > >> Does this hold for all of their boards? or only certain high end ones? > >The difference between "high end" and "low end" operation of a "high end" >board is nothing more than software. Hmmm, well perhaps from some vendors this is the case. But, Stallions low and high end offerings use very different hardware architectures. The low end relies on "smart" UARTS, with FIFOs, automatic flow control, etc, to give reasonable cost/performance trade offs. While the high end uses off- board CPU's and large memory buffers for much better performance, at more cost. > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. Yep, that is what the Stallion medium to high end stuff does. The drivers I did for Linux for these types of boards uses the same off-board executable image as the Stallion supported operating systems. I just wrote the host drivers to the specification of their shared memory interface. I will do the same thing for FreeBSD drivers for these boards. > >Generally vendor supplied drivers (at least in the SCO world) have >had a bunch of other "add-ons", like "transparent print" using a finite >state automaton based on the attached terminal type to ensure printer >data transfers only occur with the terminal in ground state in the >terminals internal escape sequence processing automaton. This takes >the place of atomic I/O processing of escape sequences and/or dictating >allowable terminal types from a set of allowable types (ala DEC's VMS >terminal I/O processing). > Yeah that is true - that is why I wimped out and didn't do it for Linux or FreeBSD drivers. So far nobody has asked for it... Does not GNU mscreen do most of this at application level? Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:13:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13812 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:13:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13805 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:13:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18157 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:13:12 -0500 Message-Id: <199601300313.WAA18157@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:37:40 MST." <199601291837.LAA08518@rocky.sri.MT.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:13:12 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver > > for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of > > you. I don't know what all the honk and flap is about, but anyone who has ``spent many thousands of hours'' developing a driver for a comm card is incompetant. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:14:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA13861 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (root@[206.206.98.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13856 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:14:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scott-Home (d1-d1b [206.206.98.103]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00661; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:14:14 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:14:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199601300314.UAA00661@srv1.thuntek.net> X-Sender: thor@thuntek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Scott Halbert Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 04:55 PM 1/29/96 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> Oh now THAT is disgustingly economical!! I applaud your ingenuity. I ran a >> diskless terminal server for a while myself, thought I was the only wierdo >> who would think to do something that odd... :-) > >I agree - I was kind of impressed when I read this. What's that make >a 4 modem increment cost, about $1500 all in? I don't know what kind >of modem cards are being used here so that's just a WAG. I've never >purchased a terminal mux, either, so I don't even know if this would >be competitive? Do you have these guys set up to advertise the modems >at some IP port range as well for outgoing stuff, or is that purely >incoming? You could do some interesting resource pooling with a few >cooperating daemons.. Hmmmm... [stares off into space for awhile :-] > > Jordan I've recently found some 28.8s for $120, so really, my last server only cost me about $800 (I had a used '386 I got for $200). I had to use a $100 3com 3c509 type card as I have yet to get boot proms to work on the ne2000 compat cards I have. I'm not sure I'm burning the right sized prom for it. They seem to run adequately fast. Of course 4 28.8s is not too fast--maybe 128k--slower than a single speed cdrom, and seldom is there simultaneous hits on all 4. Most of my clients are web browsing. I've assigned IP address in blocks of 10: 1 for the pc server and 2 each for the 4 ppp ports. At this point they are entirely incoming. I also save by getting incoming only commercial measured service lines. I have hard proxy arp's in the rc.local to avoid problems with auto proxy-arps (I'm using user ppp). I did build a little 386 based router with 1 internal that dialed out (one of my dedicated 28.8 customers). It was serving a different subnet and so had just a fixed address. I can see your point about a shared dialout resource pool and how to do the IP addresses (and how to advertise the dynamic arps or route paths). It'd be quite a chore. One daemon that I was interested was one that communicated who was logged in so that the same user could not log in twice anywhere. Similarly, I'm interested in some daemons that could assist in modem health. I've got to get tcl expect running and need to write some scripts to do this. ---Scott Halbert Thunder Network Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:21:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14449 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:21:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14444 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:21:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA13049; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:00:06 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601300330.OAA13049@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:00:06 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300255.TAA05407@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 29, 96 07:55:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > This doesn't help if your system dies from another fault (eg. locked > > hardware). > > I submit that if you have this happen, you *want* a phone call. Yes. You probably _don't_ want several hundred. > > USERS. Count yourself _fortunate_ that you don't have to deal with them. > > I've had to deal with them -- are you, indeed, claiming LD charges? No, I'm talking about lunatics that want to call you and complain that you've just cost them $0.25 for a call that YOUR SYSTEM DIDN'T ANSWER and THEY WANT A REFUND and did you know that THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE... etc. Surprisingly, if your modems don't pick up the call, these calls seem to be far fewer. Perhaps because the abovementioned lunatics are off complaining to the phone company. > So you'll fix the "answers phone but no one there" problem by substituting > the "doesn't answer phone" problem. As I said, this is observed behaviour here. Users seem to accept that if the call isn't answered, something is wrong, and they go away and come back later. If the call is answered, but nothing happens after that, they go spastic. I'm not claiming to understand why, merely observing that this is what appears to happen. > How do you fix the "doesn't answer phone" problem? By fixing the hardware. Not answering the phone merely leaves you with a lower stress quotient; that's all. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:27:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA14786 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:27:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14773 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:27:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0th6iy-000858C; Mon, 29 Jan 96 21:27 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0th6fi-000COnC; Mon, 29 Jan 96 21:23 WET Message-Id: Date: Mon, 29 Jan 96 21:23 WET To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Mon Jan 29 1996, 21:23:53 CST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [1]Yes, it will reset itself, but even if you keep DTR down, it will answer [1]the phone after it has reset itself. I don't know for sure about supras, [1]but most brands sold here work like this. [3]There are only 4 modems I know of that do this, and all but one of them is [3]no longer manufactured (and two of them were from Radio Shack and could [3]not handle binary transfers anyway). FYI, the function of &D2 (yes D-TWO) is defined in the ANSI/TIA/EIA-602-1992 specification, and it clearly states that: (section 6.3.9 Circuit 108 DTR Behavior) &D2 Upon an on-to-off transition on circuit 108/2 (DTR), the ACE instructs the DCE to perform an orderly cleardown of the call. Any data in the DCE pending transmission to the remote DCE is sent before the call is cleared, unless the remote DCE clears the call first (in which case pending data is discarded). The ACE disconnects the DCE from the line. Automatic answer is disabled while the 108/2 (DTR) remains off. **************************** ********************************* The Hayes definition of &D3 (plus everybody who copied Hayes) is to do everything &D2 says to do, PLUS reset the modem registers to the settings stored in non-volatile RAM if present, or if there are no stored settings, to restore the factory settings. Once the settings are restored, the modem returns to Command Mode. Some modem vendors achieve the above by re-executing the power-up-reset code in the modem controller. How it is done is up to the individual modem maker because the &D3 command is not part of ANSI/TIA/EIA-602 specification. I know I haven't come across a V.42bis modem (2400 and up) that has not implemented &D2 and &D3 as stated above, which includes disregarding incoming calls when DTR is deasserted. I can state that Telebit 2500, 3000, WorldBlazer, Sierra-based modems, Couriers (back as far as the HST days) and modems from many other vendors (even some cheap Packard Bell EasyData 2400s I used to own) all ignore incoming calls in &D2 or &D3 when DTR is deasserted. If your modems don't have &D3 for some reason, simply store &D2 in the modem and have getty and outbound dialing scripts issue a ATZ before doing anything else when they re-open the line. This will provide the equivalent overall function of &D3. (Be sure you wait for an "OK" from the ATZ command before proceeding - see EIA-602 6.1.7 as there is no time limit on how much time ATZ takes to complete.) Frank Durda IV |"The Knights who say "LETNi" or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | demand... A SEGMENT REGISTER!" ^------(this is the fastest route)|"A what?" or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |"LETNi! LETNi! LETNi!" - 1983 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:35:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15522 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:35:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15499 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id UAA05531; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:31:33 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601300331.UAA05531@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:31:33 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300330.OAA13049@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 30, 96 02:00:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > This doesn't help if your system dies from another fault (eg. locked > > > hardware). > > > > I submit that if you have this happen, you *want* a phone call. > > Yes. You probably _don't_ want several hundred. I'm sorry; I don't know the AT& command for "answer *one* call"... 8-). > No, I'm talking about lunatics that want to call you and complain that > you've just cost them $0.25 for a call that YOUR SYSTEM DIDN'T ANSWER > and THEY WANT A REFUND and did you know that THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE... etc. > > Surprisingly, if your modems don't pick up the call, these calls seem to > be far fewer. Perhaps because the abovementioned lunatics are off > complaining to the phone company. Ah. Australia. Never mind. We only have time charges here... I can see where you wouldn't want to answer. I don't think mgetty is the only "Approved By God(tm)" method of doing this, or even in the top two of the methods I'd choose for my own customers, but whatever floats your boat. Cheers, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 19:56:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA17202 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:56:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au (pp@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au [130.102.2.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17191 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 19:56:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from cc.uq.oz.au by bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au id <11509-0@bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:55:09 +1000 Received: from netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au by pandora.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.10/DEVETIR-E0.3a) with ESMTP id NAA22858 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:52:11 +1000 Received: from localhost by netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au (8.6.8.1/DEVETIR-0.1) id DAA07167; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 03:49:05 GMT Message-Id: <199601300349.DAA07167@netfl15a.devetir.qld.gov.au> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: sysseh@devetir.qld.gov.au Subject: LCC compiler - yes! X-Face: 3}heU+2?b->-GSF-G4T4>jEB9~FR(V9lo&o>kAy=Pj&;oVOc<|pr%I/VSG"ZD32J>5gGC0N 7gj]^GI@M:LlqNd]|(2OxOxy@$6@/!,";-!OlucF^=jq8s57$%qXd/ieC8DhWmIy@J1AcnvSGV\|*! >Bvu7+0h4zCY^]{AxXKsDTlgA2m]fX$W@'8ev-Qi+-;%L'CcZ'NBL!@n?}q!M&Em3*eW7,093nOeV8 M)(u+6D;%B7j\XA/9j4!Gj~&jYzflG[#)E9sI&Xe9~y~Gn%fA7>F:YKr"Wx4cZU*6{^2ocZ!YyR Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:49:04 +1000 From: Stephen Hocking Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Back in june there was talk about the LCC compiler, and I got mail > from a couble of interested parties. Well now I've found my old > patches and put them into the 3.4B release with support for both > static & shared libs. I've also done a fair bit of work getting it > to understand long longs (ie 64bit ints), to be honest I can declare > a variable and store a value in it, but its a start.. > > The reason for this letter is that I lost my old mail (or rather cannot > find the backup tape) so I've lost the names of the interested parties.. > > So, anybody out there still interested in LCC ??? > Yes! I'd like to see how well it would go for a number of things. If you want to send your patches plus an ftp pointer where one can pull out the latest version of Lcc, I'd give it a go. Stephen -- I do not speak for the Worker's Compensation Board of Queensland - They don't pay me enough for that! From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 20:03:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA17911 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:03:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17899 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id XAA00347; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:00:12 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601292300.XAA00347@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:00:11 +0000 () Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601292254.AAA19955@plentium.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jan 30, 96 00:54:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with > 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of > nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of > days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark > professionals value the most. > That is very good, if anyone has specific situations that cause crashes, please let me know. I am *very* interested in those also. John dyson@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 20:29:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20135 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from distortion.eng.umd.edu (distortion.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20120 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from professor.eng.umd.edu (professor.eng.umd.edu [129.2.98.207]) by distortion.eng.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.7) with ESMTP id XAA29466; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:28:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from chuckr@localhost) by professor.eng.umd.edu (8.7/8.7) id XAA02878; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:28:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:28:25 -0500 (EST) From: Chuck Robey X-Sender: chuckr@professor.eng.umd.edu To: Nate Williams cc: dennis , "Jordan K. Hubbard" , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199601291837.LAA08518@rocky.sri.MT.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Nate Williams wrote: [A whole lot of bickering deleted] C'mon, guys, you both know better. Dennis, you've told me directly that you like lighting fires, rhetorically speaking, so I'm not too surprised at this, but Nate, you know this too, why are you letting Dennis bait you? Jordan, you're usually the peacemaker ... even making noise about current. Yes, there are two fairly recent bogons in making world, but this has happened before, and both have been discussed to death, real publicly. Those responsible have made good, as much as they can. You guys all need a drink! This sounds like Usenet. I'm not saying don't discuss things, but don't start heaving the bottles, either. ============================================================================ Chuck Robey chuckr@eng.umd.edu -- I run FreeBSD on n3lxx and Journey2 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Dilbert Zone is Dilbert's new WWW home! The area features never-before-seen original sketches of Dilbert, a photo tour of Scott Adams' studio, Dilbert Trivia and memorabilia, high school photos and much more!: From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 20:38:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA21224 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:38:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21203 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:38:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA21615; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:36:56 -0800 To: Scott Halbert cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:14:14 MST." <199601300314.UAA00661@srv1.thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:36:55 -0800 Message-ID: <21612.822976615@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I've assigned IP address in blocks of 10: 1 for the pc server and 2 > each for the 4 ppp ports. At this point they are entirely incoming. I also Why 2, just out of curiousity? > and so had just a fixed address. I can see your point about a shared > dialout resource pool and how to do the IP addresses (and how to advertise > the dynamic arps or route paths). It'd be quite a chore. Oh, I dunno.. It would be interesting to sit down and hammer out a spec. If there's sufficient interest, perhaps we should take it up in the freebsd-isp mailing list. > One daemon that I was interested was one that communicated who was logged > in so that the same user could not log in twice anywhere. Similarly, I'm That would be easy enough to do. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 20:49:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA22382 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:49:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (root@[206.206.98.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22372 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:49:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from Scott-Home (d1-d1b [206.206.98.103]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA01151; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:49:34 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:49:34 -0700 Message-Id: <199601300449.VAA01151@srv1.thuntek.net> X-Sender: thor@thuntek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" From: Scott Halbert Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk At 08:36 PM 1/29/96 -0800, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> I've assigned IP address in blocks of 10: 1 for the pc server and 2 >> each for the 4 ppp ports. At this point they are entirely incoming. I also > >Why 2, just out of curiousity? You need an in and out for each PPP. The user PPP examples are a little opaque. Am I missing something, can I share the in addresses in some way or can they be the same as the ethernet address? I am used to this for other multi-homed things so I didn't think it was too wierd but didn't have too much time to experiment before I put into production. >> and so had just a fixed address. I can see your point about a shared >> dialout resource pool and how to do the IP addresses (and how to advertise >> the dynamic arps or route paths). It'd be quite a chore. >Oh, I dunno.. It would be interesting to sit down and hammer out a >spec. If there's sufficient interest, perhaps we should take it up in >the freebsd-isp mailing list. Yes. I don't do a lot of dialout yet, but I'd really like to see this kind of thing in FreeBSD. Would it have to be patched into the user ppp software, or as you said would it be done as a set of daemons? > Jordan ---Scott Halbert Thunder Network Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 20:50:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA22528 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22518 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:50:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26853; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:49:51 -0800 To: Chuck Robey cc: Nate Williams , dennis , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Dennis' Behavior (was Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:28:25 EST." Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 20:49:50 -0800 Message-ID: <26846.822977390@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Jordan, you're usually the peacemaker ... even making noise about > current. Yes, there are two fairly recent bogons in making world, but > this has happened before, and both have been discussed to death, real > publicly. Those responsible have made good, as much as they can. If "making good" in this case means fixing the problem, I don't see how that's a particularly unreasonable request. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:04:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23694 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23660 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:04:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA20880; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:01:58 +1100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:01:58 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601300501.QAA20880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: cosmos@sponsor.octet.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: compile prob Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >From owner-freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Tue Jan 30 11:07:01 1996 >Received: from x.physics.usyd.edu.au (x.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.25]) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id LAA06188 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:01:45 +1100 >Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [192.216.222.4]) by x.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.8/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA04617; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:59:31 +1100 >Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26355 > Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:55:18 -0800 (PST) >Received: (from root@localhost) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA26313 > for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:54:34 -0800 (PST) >Received: from sponsor.octet.com (root@sponsor.octet.com [204.141.97.15]) > by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26307 > for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:54:27 -0800 (PST) >Received: (from root@localhost) by sponsor.octet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA10645 for hackers@freebsd.org; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:01 GMT >From: Daniel Leeds >Message-Id: <199601291440.OAA10645@sponsor.octet.com> >Subject: compile prob >To: hackers@freebsd.org >Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:40:01 +0000 () >X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] >Content-Type: text >Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org >Precedence: bulk >okay trying to compile a program/pacakge today this huge bomb happened, and >it looks like a lot of problems with a header file... >anyone got any clues about this, or how to fix it? >***warning**** the error below is long...i am not trying to spam the list! :) >gcc -D_POSIX_SOURCE -I/usr/X11R6/include -DMAXARR=20480 -DHDEV=GR_PS_L -DPS_PRSTR='"lpr -h "' -DGR_HELPFILE='"ACEgr.html"' -DGR_HELPVIEWER='"Mosaic"' -c leaf.c >In file included from /usr/include/ctype.h:51, > from leaf.c:60: >/usr/include/runetype.h:58: parse error before `rune_t' is broken if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined and either of or is included before . Include first or don;t define _POSIX_SOURCE. Other things may break if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined. Few programs use only POSIX features. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:05:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23770 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id [167.205.22.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23719 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bondan@localhost) by maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id (8.6.11/8.6.11) id LAA05339 for freebsd-hackers@itb.ac.id; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:44:32 +0700 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:44:32 +0700 From: Bondan Rufen Message-Id: <199601300444.LAA05339@maingtw.paume.itb.ac.id> To: freebsd-hackers@itb.ac.id Subject: APAAN INI ?? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Ini mailing apaan sih ? aku gak tahu apa-apa nih mengenai freebsd ... huihihihiihihih From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:06:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23897 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:06:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23878 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA27229; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:04:34 -0800 To: Scott Halbert cc: Joe Greco , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:49:34 MST." <199601300449.VAA01151@srv1.thuntek.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:04:34 -0800 Message-ID: <27227.822978274@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Yes. I don't do a lot of dialout yet, but I'd really like to see this > kind of thing in FreeBSD. Would it have to be patched into the user ppp > software, or as you said would it be done as a set of daemons? I was actually thinking of the daemons doing both. I'm still thinking about this, but the way I see it the system should be able to manage any number of serial ports directly and also talk to its brethren in implementing a larger shared pool of modems (if necessary). You would also be able to do group-wide validation of users and such, naturally. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:11:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24311 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24294 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from donna (cmh-p087.infinet.com [206.103.242.91]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA21896; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:06:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <310DA853.1B0C13F9@cylatech.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:10:43 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nate Williams CC: Paul Blonde , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: compilers References: <199601291823.LAA08459@rocky.sri.MT.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Nate Williams wrote: > > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > > an advanced IDE comparable to the > > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > > FreeBSD and/or Linux. > > I'm interested in the results, but don't have time to help implement > it. For now, I'm using XEmacs + ddb, which works, but not as well as > the PC stuff. (Though I do like having my choice of editors). I seem to remember something called wpe and xwpe, it's suppose to be a Borland IDE clone. -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:16:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24809 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24786 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from donna (cmh-p087.infinet.com [206.103.242.91]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA22018; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:11:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <310DA95A.368869AF@cylatech.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:15:06 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (X11; I; Linux 1.2.13 i586) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Amancio Hasty Jr CC: hackers@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? References: <199601300020.QAA18513@netcom14.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > We have had great success with the Linux version of DOOM and I see no > reason why RA (RealAudio) will not work also on FreeBSD. It's at www.realaudio.com, the 2.0 beta... -- Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:20:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25080 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:20:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ref.tfs.com (ref.tfs.com [140.145.254.251]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25071 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:19:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from julian@localhost) by ref.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA07386; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:18:55 -0800 From: Julian Elischer Message-Id: <199601300518.VAA07386@ref.tfs.com> Subject: Re: Better to back out the change to crt0 To: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au (John Birrell) Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:18:55 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601300319.OAA21109@werple.net.au> from "John Birrell" at Jan 30, 96 02:18:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Julian, > > I guess that Jordan's attitude is clear. We either fix the 'make world' > problem or back out the change. I've looked at fixing it and I see that > Nate has too. Michael Smith had offered to do a few trial builds on his > system (that subsequently went up in smoke). I can offer a machine that I'm presnetly setting up by tomorrow hopefully I will have a 2.2-current system up and on the net for exactly this > > The change to crt0 doesn't break -current as far as the code goes, but > the bogus build procedure that FreeBSD uses is incapable of working out > the correct dependencies and 'make world' breaks because of that. I suggest > that it would be advisable to back out the change to crt0. To fix the > bogus build is a big deal because the current software design principles > are fundamentally flawed (you can't avoid race conditions). The only way > I can see to get the crt0 change into the source tree without breaking the > first 'make world' after it is committed is to find some way of patching > the installed libc. Yuk. > > By backing out the change to crt0, we maintain the status quo - we don't > move forward - we don't move backward. All that will happen is that > people will stop yelling. Sigh. Ok but it means that we don't have a way to initialise the threads code.... Terry had an alternative suggestion, do you reember what it was? julian > > Regards, > > -- > John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd > jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street > Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 > Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia > Mob +61 18 353 137 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:40:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA27075 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA27040 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA15520; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:37:59 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:37:59 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: [TV ] memory bandwith on a P6? In-Reply-To: <199601262026.MAA00976@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 26 Jan 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > The goal is to have a system which can capture video data at a rate of > 36.8 meg/sec and then process the data for display. With a P100 we don't > have enough bandwith to capture, process and then display the data. Side question... where/how are you going to store data at that rate without losing any information? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:49:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA28106 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA28093 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA00579; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:48:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199601300548.VAA00579@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Wilson MacGyver cc: hackers@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:15:06 EST." <310DA95A.368869AF@cylatech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:48:29 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Do you mind pointing me to the specific http path . I couldn't find anything that resemble linux. Amancio >>> Wilson MacGyver said: > Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > > We have had great success with the Linux version of DOOM and I see no > > reason why RA (RealAudio) will not work also on FreeBSD. > > > It's at www.realaudio.com, the 2.0 beta... > > -- > Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com > -------------------------------------- > Veni, Vidi, Concidi. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 21:57:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA29188 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:57:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29178 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 21:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA11037; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:59:55 -0700 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:59:55 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601300559.WAA11037@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Broken tree (was Re: Dennis' Behavior) In-Reply-To: <26846.822977390@time.cdrom.com> References: <26846.822977390@time.cdrom.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > > Yes, there are two fairly recent bogons in making world, but > > this has happened before, and both have been discussed to death, real > > publicly. Those responsible have made good, as much as they can. > > If "making good" in this case means fixing the problem, I don't see > how that's a particularly unreasonable request. OK, I wasn't responsible for the bogons, but I just fixed them until a better solution can be found. Let's see that SNAP! Now, you can't say I never did anything for you. *grin* Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:02:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06648 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06597 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:01:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id RAA26258; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:51:55 +1100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:51:55 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601300651.RAA26258@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to >>provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big >>selling point for the O/S. >> >Well I know lots of real ISP's that don't use terminal servers, they >use real intelligent mulitport boards. Boards that do offload everything, >all serial interrupts, flow control and have large memory buffers (like >5K or 6K for each of RX and TX per port). These are not toy ISP's either >they are serious players, some have more than 64 high speed modems per >system. >Let me back this up with some numbers, a Stallion EasyConnection 8/64 ISA >(which is powered by a 25MHz 186 with 512K RAM) uses about 0.1% host CPU >per kbyte output (test done on a commercial UNIX flavor, Pentium 90, >32M RAM). The EISA bus version of the board does even better (32 bit writes >of data sure help). For comparison, a Cyclades 8Yo ISA uses about 0.4% host CPU per kbyte output in opost mode (test done on FreeBSD-current, 486DX/33, 8MB RAM). Why is the Stallion so slow? :-). The Cyclades board "intelligent" but essentially none of the intelligence is used since it would make little difference. The overhead is half for ISA bus accesses (only about 1/4 for interrupts). That's why the Stallion/P90 isn't much faster. Other numbers: as above, -opost mode 0.3%/KB 16550, 486DX2/66, -opost 0.25% (one port) 16450, 486DX2/66, -opost 1.1% 16450, 386/20, -opost 3.7% A 16550 is slightly faster than a cd1400 but the FreeBSD-current multiplexing code is more general and slower for 16550 multiport boards than for 8Yo's. Linux Comtrol Rocketport driver as reported in Linux Journal: 486DX/33, -opost 0.08% 486DX/33, opost 0.77% The RocketPort is faster mainly because it provides 16 bit i/o's and larger FIFOs. I'd like to see some numbers for terminal servers. The FreeBSD pty overhead is 10 times larger than the serial overhead in some cases. I'm not sure if these cases are used with terminal servers. For rlogin over ethernet, `dd if=/dev/zero bs=8k' consumes 100% of my 486DX/33 and has a transfer speed 87381 bytes/sec (whee :-() 486DX/33, NE2000, opost 1.17%/KB (96.3%Sys 3.2%%Intr 0.5%User) The nulls in the output exercise the slowest parts of the opost code; catting normal text files is about 5 times faster. The other benchmarks transmit normal text files; otherwise their opost overheads would be higher. Intelligent cards might help here, but so would better opost code, and sending all nulls is unusual. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:03:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA06739 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from zip.io.org (zip.io.org [198.133.36.80]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA06728 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:03:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zip.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA19870; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:02:40 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:02:40 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: Greg Lehey cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: FreeBSD & BSDI - disk compatibility... (fwd) In-Reply-To: <199601211018.LAA12929@allegro.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 21 Jan 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > > Well, now you come to ask the question, I'm not sure. I interpreted > it to mean that he wanted to access BSD/OS partitions from FreeBSD. If there is a way to read BSD/OS filesystems with Free/NetBSD, I could have used a few weeks ago. :-/ I moved about 20 gigabytes of data from our BSD/OS 2.0 server to a NetBSD 1.1 one. Neither NetBSD nor FreeBSD could mount a BSD/OS drive. Disklabel couldn't make any sense of the drive, and the fdisk in the FreeBSD installer showed no partitions. -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:10:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA07695 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluewhale.emergent.com (bluewhale.emergent.com [140.174.2.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA07686 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:10:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from curt@localhost) by bluewhale.emergent.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) id XAA21899 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:10:47 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:10:47 -0800 From: Curt Mayer Message-Id: <199601300710.XAA21899@bluewhale.emergent.com> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: async i/o Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk any plans for something akin to aioread/aiowrite? a per-io state machine triggered by a B_CALL hook will get you most of the way there. ----------------------------------------------------- curt mayer - curt@emergent.com - emergent corporation (415) 221-5269 voice (415) 385-2979 cell www url: http://www.emergent.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:18:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08586 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08574 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00314; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:17:55 -0800 (PST) To: Nate Williams cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Broken tree (was Re: Dennis' Behavior) In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 22:59:55 MST." <199601300559.WAA11037@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:17:55 -0800 Message-ID: <312.822986275@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > OK, I wasn't responsible for the bogons, but I just fixed them until a > better solution can be found. Let's see that SNAP! Started now.. :-) Thanks, Nate! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:34:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA10559 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA10539 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:34:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA02063; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:34:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199601300734.XAA02063@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 100bt cards. In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:20:47 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:34:29 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I'm using smc pci 100bt cards on my Neptune-based P5-90s. I get 50 mbits >over tcp when i push hard. >QUestion: >any comparative numbers for 3com, intel, etc.? any current preferences >out there as to smc, 3com, intel, etc? some vendors are now selling >5-packs of the 3c595 for $659, or $130/card. Nice price. If it runs well >I'll just get those. Stick with the SMC. The performance limit you are seeing is caused by your Neptune-based motherboard, not by the card. The Intel EE Pro/100B does achieve about 5% higher rates, but a bug in the NIC that causes the receiver to stop receiving when a minor glitch on the network happens is too annoying (you have to manually reset the card to get it going again). This is supposed to be fixed in the next rev of the chip. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:53:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12583 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12578 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa08004; 29 Jan 96 23:53 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Bruce Evans Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:47:25 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601300651.RAA26258@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 30, 96 05:51:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601301747.aa25485@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >Let me back this up with some numbers, a Stallion EasyConnection 8/64 ISA > >(which is powered by a 25MHz 186 with 512K RAM) uses about 0.1% host CPU > >per kbyte output (test done on a commercial UNIX flavor, Pentium 90, > >32M RAM). The EISA bus version of the board does even better (32 bit writes > >of data sure help). > > For comparison, a Cyclades 8Yo ISA uses about 0.4% host CPU per kbyte > output in opost mode (test done on FreeBSD-current, 486DX/33, 8MB RAM). > Why is the Stallion so slow? :-). The Cyclades board "intelligent" but Hmmm, comparing apples and oranges to some extent. As I pointed out this bench mark result was done on a comercial UNIX flavor, I expect the above number was done on a FreeBSD system? Also the above test was done with 32 ports attached to the board, if only 1 8-port unit was attached there would be measurably lower host overhead again (due to the sigificantly larger shared memory buffers). > essentially none of the intelligence is used since it would make little > difference. The overhead is half for ISA bus accesses (only about 1/4 > for interrupts). That's why the Stallion/P90 isn't much faster. Other > numbers: Sure the ISA bus only goes so fast. And you can't do much about that, except off-course switch to using a better bus... > > as above, -opost mode 0.3%/KB > > 16550, 486DX2/66, -opost 0.25% (one port) > 16450, 486DX2/66, -opost 1.1% > 16450, 386/20, -opost 3.7% > > A 16550 is slightly faster than a cd1400 but the FreeBSD-current > multiplexing code is more general and slower for 16550 multiport boards > than for 8Yo's. > > Linux Comtrol Rocketport driver as reported in Linux Journal: > > 486DX/33, -opost 0.08% > 486DX/33, opost 0.77% Again, different OS and different number of ports. It does make a difference... The only fair comparison is all boards similarly configured, in the same system, running the same OS... > > The RocketPort is faster mainly because it provides 16 bit i/o's and larger > FIFOs. > > I'd like to see some numbers for terminal servers. The FreeBSD pty > overhead is 10 times larger than the serial overhead in some cases. > I'm not sure if these cases are used with terminal servers. For > rlogin over ethernet, `dd if=/dev/zero bs=8k' consumes 100% of my > 486DX/33 and has a transfer speed 87381 bytes/sec (whee :-() > > 486DX/33, NE2000, opost 1.17%/KB (96.3%Sys 3.2%%Intr 0.5%User) > > The nulls in the output exercise the slowest parts of the opost code; > catting normal text files is about 5 times faster. The other benchmarks > transmit normal text files; otherwise their opost overheads would be > higher. Intelligent cards might help here, but so would better opost > code, and sending all nulls is unusual. > It would be interresting to compare... Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Jan 29 23:56:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA12863 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:56:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from sarah.asstdc.com.au (root@sarah.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12853 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from cassie.asstdc.com.au (cassie.asstdc.com.au [202.12.127.66]) by sarah.asstdc.com.au (8.6.12/BSD4.4) with SMTP id SAA08392; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:52:58 +1100 Message-Id: <199601300752.SAA08392@sarah.asstdc.com.au> X-Sender: imb@asstdc.scgt.oz.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:53:00 +1000 To: Terry Lambert , msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) From: Michael Butler Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: >I'm sorry; I don't know the AT& command for "answer *one* call"... 8-). ATS0=0A :-) >I don't think mgetty is the only "Approved By God(tm)" method of doing >this, or even in the top two of the methods I'd choose for my own >customers, but whatever floats your boat. But it's one of a very small number of options if you happen to accept inbound FidoNet calls, michael From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 00:58:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA18688 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:58:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA18665 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:58:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA32122; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:54:27 +1100 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:54:27 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601300854.TAA32122@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, gerg@stallion.oz.au Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> For comparison, a Cyclades 8Yo ISA uses about 0.4% host CPU per kbyte >> output in opost mode (test done on FreeBSD-current, 486DX/33, 8MB RAM). >> Why is the Stallion so slow? :-). The Cyclades board "intelligent" but >Hmmm, comparing apples and oranges to some extent. As I pointed out this >bench mark result was done on a comercial UNIX flavor, I expect the above >number was done on a FreeBSD system? Yes, I said so above :-). >> [Cyclades, 486DX/33], -opost 0.3%/KB >> >> 16550, 486DX2/66, -opost 0.25% (one port) >>... >> Linux Comtrol Rocketport driver as reported in Linux Journal: >> >> 486DX/33, -opost 0.08% >> 486DX/33, opost 0.77% >Again, different OS and different number of ports. It does make a >difference... The only fair comparison is all boards similarly configured, >in the same system, running the same OS... It's important to compare with other OS's to make sure that FreeBSD is the best. My numbers indicate that the OS doesn't actually make much difference unless the driver or OS does something wrong. The 0.08% for the Comtrol can be predicted from the 0.25% for the 16550 by dividing by a bit less than 2 for the improvement from 8-bit i/o's to 16-bit i/o's and then reducing a bit more for the lower interrupt overhead. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 01:14:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA20523 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:14:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA20510 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:13:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa09008; 30 Jan 96 1:13 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Bruce Evans Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:07:33 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: bde@zeta.org.au, gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601300854.TAA32122@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 30, 96 07:54:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601301907.aa25683@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >> [Cyclades, 486DX/33], -opost 0.3%/KB > >> > >> 16550, 486DX2/66, -opost 0.25% (one port) > >>... > >> Linux Comtrol Rocketport driver as reported in Linux Journal: > >> > >> 486DX/33, -opost 0.08% > >> 486DX/33, opost 0.77% > > >Again, different OS and different number of ports. It does make a > >difference... The only fair comparison is all boards similarly configured, > >in the same system, running the same OS... > > It's important to compare with other OS's to make sure that FreeBSD > is the best. My numbers indicate that the OS doesn't actually make much > difference unless the driver or OS does something wrong. The 0.08% > for the Comtrol can be predicted from the 0.25% for the 16550 by > dividing by a bit less than 2 for the improvement from 8-bit i/o's > to 16-bit i/o's and then reducing a bit more for the lower interrupt > overhead. Sure. I looked up further results to compare. These where done on a Compaq Prolient with Pentium/60 (just to compare :-), and again with a commercial UNIX variant... EasyConnection 8/64 (ISA) 16 ports 0.07 %/kb EasyConnection 8/64 (ISA) 32 ports 0.09 %/kb EasyConnection 8/64 (EISA) 8 ports 0.03 %/kb EasyConnection 8/64 (EISA) 16 ports 0.04 %/kb EasyConnection 8/64 (EISA) 32 ports 0.06 %/kb EasyConnection 8/64 (EISA) 64 ports 0.09 %/kb But I suppose it don't mean much yet, since we cannot compare with FreeBSD numbers... Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 01:18:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA21009 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:18:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA20970 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:17:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA09302 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:17:19 +0100 Message-Id: <199601300917.KAA09302@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu (Clarence W. Wilkerson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:13:17 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601272010.PAA08983@hopf2.math.purdue.edu>; from "Clarence W. Wilkerson" at Jan 27, 96 3:10 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I currently am running a system that has DOS, FreeBSD, and Linux loaded. > I use the FreeBSD bootmanager, BootEasy. Because it uses the bios, my > understanding is that the partitions it boots have to be visible to the > bios. In my case, DOS is on first disk, FreeBSD on second, and Linux > on the third. I boot linux by first booting DOS and then using > Lodlin15 package to boot Linux. The dos directory contains a copy of > the linux kernel which is read in and started. Then it knows about extra > disks, and partitions beyond the usual limits. > > To do this on one large disk with only BootEasy, I think your DOS will need > to be entirely low ( below 1023 cylinders ). Linux could be started from > a very small partition containing essentially only a kernel, and I suspect the > same for FreeBSD. I'd like to confirm this. It's my understanding that the only reason to require partitions to be below the magic 1024 cylinder limit is if they are bootable, so that the BIOS can address them. In this particular situation, you could do this by putting the primary DOS partition, one of the UNIX slices ("partitions" in DOS terminology) completely within the first 1024 cylinders, and the other UNIX slice sufficiently in the first 1024 cylinders that the root partition is below the limit. The rest of the disk would include the rest of the second UNIX slice and the DOS extended partition. If you disagree with this, *please* complain. I'm writing this in the FreeBSD installation guide, and it would be nice if it were correct. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 01:48:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA24358 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA24239 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:47:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA00126 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:46:04 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:46:01 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA25264; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:26:44 +0300 (MSK) To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, Jaye Mathisen References: In-Reply-To: ; from Jaye Mathisen at Mon, 29 Jan 1996 14:46:54 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:26:44 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.42 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? Lines: 14 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In message Jaye Mathisen writes: >The RA beta is out for linux, and I would like to try it, but only if >there's a slight chance it will work... :) I also saw RA Server for FreeBSD on their WWW page, but no FreeBSD RA player. -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 01:54:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA25136 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:54:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA25101 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:54:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA11260 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:54:02 +0100 Message-Id: <199601300954.KAA11260@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:49:56 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291647.KAA07920@plains.nodak.edu>; from "Mark Tinguely" at Jan 29, 96 10:47 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I listened to the talk via the MBONE and could not believe their methodology > and that USENIX would accept the paper. > > I agree with your statement they did not quantify/qualify the Linux/FreeBSD/ > Solaris user count and support. They seem to make the implication that only > Linux was widely used and had a large base of supporters. That rubbed me the > wrong way more than anything else. Sad. > It seemed the conference had a large Linux bias. In the next talk (by Carl > Staelin or was it Larry McVoy from SGI), the speaker said he will not be > happy until Linux was running on all machines (a bold statement from a > person that is employed by company that sells their own version of Unix). Is the bias towards Linux or towards free UNIX? Recall that in the minds of most people, this is the same thing. From a FreeBSD standpoint, it's important to remember that the Linux crowd are closer to us than anybody else. They just got off to a less encumbered start. If you knock the Linux supporters, you're rejecting a lot of potential FreeBSD supporters. > I think the major Unix producers should look at the projected P6 numbers and > glowing praise of free unix-clones and (in the words of Staelin/McVoy talking > about the P6), "be afraid, be very afraid". Yes, they should look at the combination. Whether they should be afraid or happy depends on how they intend to treat what they find. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 02:23:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA28745 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA28724 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:23:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id LAA02797; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:23:16 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id KAA12889; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:24:35 +0100 Message-Id: <199601300924.KAA12889@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Nate Williams cc: Paul Blonde , freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: compilers In-reply-to: nate's message of Mon, 29 Jan 1996 11:23:12 -0700. <199601291823.LAA08459@rocky.sri.MT.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:24:34 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > > an advanced IDE comparable to the > > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > > FreeBSD and/or Linux. > > I'm interested in the results, but don't have time to help implement > it. For now, I'm using XEmacs + ddb, which works, but not as well as > the PC stuff. (Though I do like having my choice of editors). > > There already is something like that. It's called xwpe (or wpe I'm not sure). It contains an X-client that is a clone of the Borland stuff (visually as well as functionally) and a terminal version. It needs some work because it uses termio, at least it did last time I looked. The author is Fred Kruse, Email: Fred Kruse or Fred Kruse ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 02:54:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA02662 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:54:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA02650 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:54:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA00899; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:53:19 -0800 Message-Id: <199601301053.CAA00899@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Greg Lehey cc: tinguely@plains.nodak.edu (Mark Tinguely), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:49:56 +0700." <199601300954.KAA11260@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:53:18 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Staelin or was it Larry McVoy from SGI), the speaker said he will not be > > happy until Linux was running on all machines (a bold statement from a > > person that is employed by company that sells their own version of Unix). Well , if the speaker was from SGI that explains everything 8) Oh, before someone from SGI or FreeBSD wants to say something my girlfriend works there and I am familiar with their culture: We are the *best* or my opinion is the *best one*. At any rate, what we do have to do is to make our own presentation. Right now, Linux's networking and mbone offering is poor and we should exploit that to the max by way of giving a presentation who knows evenat at Usenix. For sure we can depend on the Linux crowd to take away credits where they are due to FreeBSD 8) > I think the major Unix producers should look at the projected P6 numbers and > glowing praise of free unix-clones and (in the words of Staelin/McVoy talking > about the P6), "be afraid, be very afraid". Well, if Intel or someone increases the memory bandwith the P6 may be something. At any rate, I doubt that the P6 will cut into the high end 3d graphic market . It seems that the PC market is dragging or dodging the 3d hardware market. The first deployment of 3d graphic hardware should be barely okay. As for compile engines or something to put in an engineers desk to develop software Larry or whomever is right --- they better be afraid 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 05:12:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA18120 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:12:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from bessel.nando.net (rajp@bessel.nando.net [152.52.2.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA18047 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:12:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rajp@localhost) by bessel.nando.net (8.7.3/8.7.1) id IAA27751 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:12:40 -0500 (EST) From: rajp Message-Id: <199601301312.IAA27751@bessel.nando.net> Subject: Re: intested! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:12:40 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hey, what does that line about linux mean?! How about telling me what you guys have in mind on the internals side? Like any device drivers,etc? -Raj > > * I saw the installation document for freebsd 2.0.5. What i have noticed > * browsing the web is that there is not as much wealth of software/info as > * there is about linux. > > Well, that's good for a start. Where would you like to go from here ? > > answer: Back to Linux (please) > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 05:15:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA18293 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from gauss.math.purdue.edu (gauss.math.purdue.edu [128.210.21.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA18286 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 05:15:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from hopf.math.purdue.edu (uucp@hopf.math.purdue.edu [128.210.3.18]) by gauss.math.purdue.edu (8.7.1/Purdue_Math) with ESMTP id IAA17525; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:15:00 -0500 (EST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by hopf.math.purdue.edu (8.7.1/8.6.11) with UUCP id IAA15006; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:14:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from hopf2.math.purdue.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hopf2.math.purdue.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA14208; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:14:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199601301314.IAA14208@hopf2.math.purdue.edu> To: Greg Lehey cc: freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu (Clarence W. Wilkerson), hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org, freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:13:17 +0700." <199601300917.KAA09292@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:14:38 -0500 From: "Clarence Wilkerson, " Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have not tried having an extended dos partition beyond the limit without an additional driver for the disk. Unfortunately, I don't have a convenient way to try it. The part about booting Linux from a small low partition has been tried with OS/2 Bootmanager, or just using loadlin15 and having it anywhere ( in my case on a third drive) has been done and verified. I've had a tough time getting OS/2 and DOS to allocate space past 1024. It could be that once these extended partitions are set up somehow, they can be used by dos. Best, Clarence From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 06:40:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA26022 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA26003 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 06:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA15227; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:52 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601301452.BAA15227@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:51 +1030 (CST) Cc: freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, doc@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300917.KAA09302@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 30, 96 10:13:17 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey stands accused of saying: > I'd like to confirm this. It's my understanding that the only reason > to require partitions to be below the magic 1024 cylinder limit is if > they are bootable, so that the BIOS can address them. In this Correct. > particular situation, you could do this by putting the primary DOS > partition, one of the UNIX slices ("partitions" in DOS terminology) > completely within the first 1024 cylinders, and the other UNIX slice > sufficiently in the first 1024 cylinders that the root partition is > below the limit. The rest of the disk would include the rest of the > second UNIX slice and the DOS extended partition. I'm not sure I see the picture you're painting here. From FreeBSD's point of view, the following must be met : 1) The entire root filesystem must be below the 1024 cylinder mark. 2) If bad144 bad-sector marking has been used (uncommon), the entire BSD slice must be below the 1024 cylinder mark. > Greg -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 07:07:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA26986 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA26973 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:06:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA03213; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:02:46 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601301002.KAA03213@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: intested! To: rajp@nando.net (rajp) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:02:46 +0000 () Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601301312.IAA27751@bessel.nando.net> from "rajp" at Jan 30, 96 08:12:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Hey, what does that line about linux mean?! > > How about telling me what you guys have in mind on the internals side? > Like any device drivers,etc? > > -Raj > (This is from a -core team member, but only HIS opinion, not that of -core... Some other -core members *might* agree.) FreeBSD is a VERY high performance OS/Kernel. At times, the are specific areas where Linux is faster. However, those times are mostly under light load conditions. Under heavy load, the algorithms backing FreeBSD withstand more use. It isn't just an O(n) type thing. A good example is the paging stuff. Linux doesn't use a statistics based scheme that is very complex, FreeBSD does. Try running random paging benchmarks -- you will then see it clearly, even the recent Linux stuff thrashes very easily. (I have some that I use as regression tests that right now, but I want to keep private.) FreeBSD is faster on the same piece of hardware for file copies and other things (like networking) also. The thing that FreeBSD doesn't have that Linux has is the "cult of personality". The FreeBSD team is made up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes and are not going to re-create them (at least for long.) FreeBSD does have one major "problem" that I worry about alot, and that is the disk metadata thing. We have been improving the situation, and hopefully soon will make a major performance impact. If the tests at Usenix would have been done with FreeBSD-current, the meta-data operations would have been much faster if the filesystems were mounted -async. FreeBSD initially chooses a more robust disk meta-data update policy, and that had been the recent history of BSD Eventually, our -async option will be better supported, with perhaps a bit of risk. But it will be no more (and perhaps less) risk than the Linux approach. Regarding user-land, please refer to the ports collection, or almost anything that was (user-land) written for any BSD or some SVR4 variants. They usually port cleanly. It is less of an issue with BSD, because it is a bit more standard (historical) than Linux (which is a bit of a mixture of philosophies.) You will definitely find fewer games and toys for BSD though, but our Linux emulation helps that :-). You'll probably soon find FreeBSD running Linux as well as or better than Linux :-). We can already do a pretty good job. As to the future, more performance, more of the 4.4Lite/2 exotic filesystems. More compatibility with other OSes. IPv6, better working NFS. Things will be getting better and better!!! John Dyson From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 07:55:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA29983 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:55:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from tippy.cybernet.com ([192.245.33.86]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29926 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pcobb@localhost) by tippy.cybernet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA01979; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:52:45 -0500 X-Mailer: XFMail 0.4-alpha [p0] on FreeBSD Received: from gateway.cybernet.com (gateway.cybernet.com [192.245.33.1]) by tippy.cybernet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA00761 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 23:16:17 -0500 Received: from freefall.freebsd.org by gateway.cybernet.com (8.6.8/1.0A) id AAA29810; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 00:14:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26565 Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:21:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26531 for hackers-outgoing; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26517 for ; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id QAA18513; Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:13 -0800 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:13 -0800 Message-Id: From: (Amancio Hasty Jr) To: hackers@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You probably want to subscribe to : mail multimedia@rah.star-gate.com subscribe multimedia And please give us a pointer to the RA beta software . We have had great success with the Linux version of DOOM and I see no reason why RA (RealAudio) will not work also on FreeBSD. Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 07:56:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA00472 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:56:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA00452 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:56:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14461(9)>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:55:57 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27937; Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:55:53 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA28600; Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:55:52 EST Message-Id: <9601301555.AA28600@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: booting freebsd 2.1 (and current) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 07:55:51 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have freebsd running on a machine (which also runs linux and win95). When I use fdisk to select where I want to boot (from dos and/or freebsd) it boots as expected. When I boot from a floppy disk, I have to quickly enter wd(0,a)/kernel or else I boot from the floppy... I really want to get fbsdboot going (I like the strategy, I boot linux from loadlin). When I used booteasy (the canned installation), it wouldn't boot properly (it printed some gibberish after the first line...I haven't tried this in a while...) When I boot fbsdboot, it prints the size lines, then does nothing and then reboots. fbsdboot does the same whether I boot a dos based kernel or from the boot tracks...the winboot (not sure what its called) did the same things (although it correctly described /dev/sd0a, so it must read the disk properly...) I played with turning off himem/emm386 on dos...still no luck... I understand linux compressed kernels piggybacks an uncompressor onto it and expands it in ram at the right address. In addition the same image I boot from loadlin works fine if I cat (or dd if you insist) onto a floppy and boot it. rdev lets me interact with the kernel to say which boot device I want... How can I get the same functionality with freebsd...currently I'm booting off a floppy and quickly entering wd(0,a)/kernel... Is there a way to default to wd(0,a)/kernel? marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom (http://www.lpf.org) Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic Arthur C. Clarke, The Lost Worlds of 2001 -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 08:45:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA05713 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:45:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fw.ast.com (fw.ast.com [165.164.6.25]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05690 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:45:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from nemesis by fw.ast.com with uucp (Smail3.1.29.1 #2) id m0thJ9X-000859C; Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:43 CST Received: by nemesis.lonestar.org (Smail3.1.27.1 #20) id m0thIuY-000CvTC; Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:28 WET Message-Id: Date: Tue, 30 Jan 96 10:28 WET To: hackers@freebsd.org From: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Sent: Tue Jan 30 1996, 10:28:02 CST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [9]Darn straight! "Never trust a programmer who's a little too [9]comfortable with a soldering iron." [9]:-) [9] Jordan OUCH! Now you've gone and made me burn my finger. :-) Frank Durda IV |"I'll huff, and I'll puff, or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | and I'll get promoted." ^------(this is the fastest route)| - Old Management Saying or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |(C) 1984 FDIV From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 08:59:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA06869 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:59:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA06846 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:58:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA14367; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:57:08 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:57:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199601301657.LAA14367@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Robert Withrow From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: RE: R. Winslow's Ignorance Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Programmer superior Robert Winslow writes..... >> > Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver >> > for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of >> > you. > >I don't know what all the honk and flap is about, but anyone who >has ``spent many thousands of hours'' developing a driver for >a comm card is incompetant. Your idea of a driver and mine are clearly different. Design a board, write a comprehensive (you'll probably have to look this word up) portable driver that runs in MSDOS, 4 unixes and Windows, write frame relay, X.25 and PPP protocol engines, several manuals, and an extensive API and call me when your done. Most likely it wont work. Then when you get it so companies are willing to spend good money to run in 24 X 7 with conifidence...call me again. Idiot. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 09:11:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA08296 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:11:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08286 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:11:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA29209; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:08:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:08:32 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: connectix quickcam Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I did not see this mentioned yet, maybe i missed it but i wanted to make sure freebsd people knew about it. The connectix quickcam reverse engineering is finished, so if you buy a quickcam you've got a load of source to work with. So much for the quickcam NDA. Long live the net. Just buy the el-cheapo $75 quickcam minus their development software (and their crummy NDA) and journey to: http://www.crynwr.com/qcpc/ ron p.s. if you want to get a phone call from unitedmedia lawyers, just put an HREF in your home page to the dilbert strip of the day. IF they see it, they'll call you and get nasty. It should make their day more enjoyable somehow if several tens of thousands of people do this, I suppose; even better if many of them are overseas, and so can drive up ATT revenue for all those long-distance calls. Of course, said lawyers could always get a clue, but what fun is that? They already made some poor guy change his web page under threat of legal action. Ron Minnich |" XNFPREP: ERROR 4007: rminnich@sarnoff.com | Everything in the design was deleted." (609)-734-3120 |Was it something I said? ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 09:44:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10550 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10465 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:43:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA14484 ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:43:01 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA23729 ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:43:00 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id IAA11217; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:44:38 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199601300744.IAA11217@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: compilers To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 08:44:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: pblonde@agrium.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601291823.LAA08459@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at "Jan 29, 96 11:23:12 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk It seems that Nate Williams said: > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > > an advanced IDE comparable to the > > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > > FreeBSD and/or Linux. > > I'm interested in the results, but don't have time to help implement > it. For now, I'm using XEmacs + ddb, which works, but not as well as > the PC stuff. (Though I do like having my choice of editors). Ever had a look at xwpe-1.4.2.tar.gz ? This is the file README for the xwpe distribution, version 1.4.0. xwpe is a X-window programming environment designed to use on UNIX-systems. It is similar to 'Borland C++ or Turbo Pas- cal' environment. The difference between the programming environments from Borland an xwpe is that many compilers and linkers may be started. From a menu three different debuggers can be chosen. And of course not only key strokes can select these options you can also use a mouse. Errors that occur while compiling and linking a programme can be examined in the sources: The cursor will jump to the corresponding line in the source-file. Programmes using more than one source-file can be managed with the so called project-option (see also project-file). The programme can be started from within the Programming-Environment and errors may be found using a debugger. The debugging-environment allows the user to set and unset breakpoints directly in the source code. The contents of variables may be displayed in a special window, the Watch-Window. This window is updated while reaching a breakpoint. The Stack-Window displays the programme stack. -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 09:47:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10784 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:47:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10779 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:47:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14716(5)>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:44:57 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29511; Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:44:54 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29546; Tue, 30 Jan 96 12:44:52 EST Message-Id: <9601301744.AA29546@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: signal masks and select Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:44:51 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Select seems to have a well know problem... If the idea is to block on select and wait for a signal to kick you out, there's a problem... if you implement code: set_sigmask(unblock desired signals) select(...) you have a small window where the signal could sneak through and won't kick you out of select...so the solution is select can't block forever in select (so you have to select for a limited period and poll to see if the signal snuck in...) Is there any interest into making a select call in the kernel with a new signal mask...so the above code segment becomes atomic (but if you use it, it's not portable to other Unixes without this enhancement...) Comments? marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom (http://www.lpf.org) Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic Arthur C. Clarke, The Lost Worlds of 2001 -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 09:51:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11030 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:51:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11021 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 09:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA05539; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:46:56 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601301746.LAA05539@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: hsu@clinet.fi (Heikki Suonsivu) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:46:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601292254.AAA19955@plentium.clinet.fi> from "Heikki Suonsivu" at Jan 30, 96 00:54:25 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > One interesting note, I benchmark FreeBSD vs. Linux (and used to SVR4) > regularly in order to evaluate places where performance might/should > be improved. I am *brutal* to FreeBSD, but it is getting difficult to > find places where it can easily be improved (some of the performance > "nits" are due to differences in philosophy and not actual performance > problems.) With the latest pipe improvements, I am running out of steam. > Indeed, my goal is to "find" performance problems. If anyone has a "cache" > of programs to show performance bottlenecks, please email them to me. > They will be used to improve FreeBSD's performance, and if I don't > do it, DG, BDE or someone else will work on the code. > > There is another layer of improvements that I have been thinking about, but > those require more involved work, and I want to work on easier stuff right > now :-). Brain vacation time :-). > > I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with > 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of > nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of > days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark > professionals value the most. My Web server was up 121 days before a power outage knocked it down, that is pretty good given that the site record is (I believe) 135 days for a SunOS 4.1 box. In my opinion my news server isn't as stable. I see about 1-2 week uptimes. Since I've installed ccd and increased my alt.binaries partition size, I am no longer running out of disk space on a regular basis and I haven't seen that pesky "panic: free vnode isn't" message lately. Again, that is not a guarantee that there's a relationship, but there is an apparent correlation. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 10:00:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11657 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:00:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11642 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA06034; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:58:26 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199601301758.MAA06034@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Linux Netscape 2.0b6a? To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:58:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Andreas Klemm" at Jan 30, 96 05:48:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Peter Wemm wrote: > > > I know the BSDI version of 2.0b6a works fine for me, but it doesn't have > > Java support in it. > > Does somebody know, why those people at mcom deceided not to include > Java support into the BSDI binary ? > > Could it be the case that they have compilation trouble or such ? > Perhaps they should go and get a FreeBSD system ;-) > It's probably due to ny system threads -- they don't do it in AIX 2.0b6 either 8-(... (And AIX 4.1.x has threads) Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 10:49:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA16477 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:49:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16462 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 10:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id TAA11199; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:47:55 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601301847.TAA11199@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: intested! To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:47:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601301002.KAA03213@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 30, 96 10:02:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe > old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes Hmm.....I do not agree that 25 years is old. -Guido, age 30 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 11:19:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19352 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19316 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:18:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA05659; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:14:39 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601301914.NAA05659@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:14:38 -0600 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, terry@lambert.org, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601300255.TAA05407@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 29, 96 07:55:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > If you have a source for the $35 variant, I'd love to see it. The only > > reference I managed to track down was for a $400 product, which unsurprisingly > > failed to enthuse me. Currently I install 8-port relay boards in a > > nominated 'stable' system, and run lines from the motherboard reset pins > > to the relays. Crude, but _very_ effective. (Until someone runs the > > 'cylon' program I use to test the cards 8) > > One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. Emerging Technologies has a pricey but (apparently) flexible watchdog card, as I recall it was around $200. I lost the Web page reference for this one: ftp://ftp.mediacity.com/pub/brian/dvi-watchdog-1.5-freebsd.tar.gz but it was posted on one of the lists in a discussion a while back by Brian Litzinger. Ooooo there it is, see his announcement of Wed, 18 Oct 1995 in -hackers. I haven't found a source for the BOARD itself. Maybe Brian can give us a hint where to look. I've seen other generic PC watchdog/rebooters in magazines for an average cost of about $100. What I'd like: a watchdog that didn't cost as much as a much more sophisticated piece of equipment such as an Ethernet or SCSI controller. A $35 variant is about right. :-) The parts are dirt cheap. Ideally I'd like to see a watchdog driver that knows how to work with FreeBSD. Brian's work is workable but it would be much nicer if the watchdog driver would automatically deal with the watchdog board in a logical manner without having to putter with modifying system commands. The way I envision it, the driver comes up, sets the timeout to something big like 10 minutes, and that's initialization. When the RC scripts start running, it runs a user-level configuration utility before the fsck's, that sets the board to reset in X minutes (i.e. if fsck's don't succeed). In rc.local, a user-level daemon gets kicked off, which sets the board to reset in 5 minutes, and then proceeds to ping the board every minute. I assume a device driver is notified when the system is going down, so when halt/shutdown/whatever are called to bring the system down, the board is reset by the devdriver back to the 10 minutes, and the system goes down. This is (IMHO) conceptually clean. I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code for the 8751 that would do all the dirty work (mainly because I would hate trying to wire all the digital logic for a traditional watchdog counter, and I'm not familiar with any of the Maxim-type monolithic watchdog chips). I don't have PC board facilities available to me and the prototyping cards are expensive$$$$$. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 11:21:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA19695 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19682 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01978; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:30 -0800 (PST) To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:08:32 EST." Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:30 -0800 Message-ID: <1976.823029690@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I did not see this mentioned yet, maybe i missed it but i wanted to make > sure freebsd people knew about it. The connectix quickcam reverse > engineering is finished, so if you buy a quickcam you've got a load of > source to work with. So much for the quickcam NDA. Long live the net. > Just buy the el-cheapo $75 quickcam minus their development software (and > their crummy NDA) and journey to: > > http://www.crynwr.com/qcpc/ Indeed! I'm at a friend's house at the moment, and he has a quickcam. We loaded this stuff up with trembling fingers last night and it works just great! The interface is done with xforms, which looks pretty snazzy, and it allows you to adjust the brightnes/contrast levels as well as the bpp and resolution values on the fly. Once vic has been hacked to support this, I think you're going to see a lot of QC owners on the MBONE! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 11:39:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21370 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:39:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21357 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:39:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id NAA05698; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:38:01 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601301938.NAA05698@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:38:01 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601300147.UAA12915@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 29, 96 08:47:37 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> A "real" isp might use a portmaster....but many non-isps would like to > >> provide a small number of modem lines for corporate dial-in. Its a big > >> selling point for the O/S. > > > >That resembles what I'm doing here at MEI with the engineering dial-in > >pool... 4 AT&T Paradyne DataPort 14.4 modems on a hunt. The box? A > >FreeBSD 2.0.5R 386DX/16. Extra benefit: the lines can be used for outdials > >too!! > > A brand new 486SLC-33 MB is 42 bucks (last time I checked)....more than twice as > fast as 386DX/16..... The 386DX/16 was $0.00, included case and power supply, video card, and network card (i.e. it was a retired PC). It is not showing any signs of being unable to keep up with the workload. I have a 386DX/33 running as a terminal server down at sol.net handling 8 lines. Also not a problem. FreeBSD, taking that old "obsolete" PC hardware and giving it new life. I remember the days of the VAX 11/750 running BSD. The number .5 MIPS sticks in my mind. I know MIPS is an almost worthless benchmark but I still favor it as my method of rough comparisons. As I recall, the MIPS rating for a 386DX class machine is approximately CLOCK/5, and for a 486DX class machine is around CLOCK/2. (I assume a 386SX would be CLOCK/10 for 32 bit stuff).. so even a 386sx/16 running in non-turbo mode would be around .8 MIPS. Plentyyyyy of power. ;-) As far as new boxes go - I probably wouldn't venture much lower than a 486DX4/120 (CPU ~= $100, MB ~= $100) unless I happened to get it for free. You can't argue with the bang per buck figure. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 11:40:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21623 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (janus.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21533 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20484>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:40:07 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Guido van Rooij Cc: "John S. Dyson" , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: intested! In-Reply-To: <199601301847.TAA11199@gvr.win.tue.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan30.144633est.20484@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Guido van Rooij wrote: > > > up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe > > old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes > > Hmm.....I do not agree that 25 years is old. > > -Guido, age 30 > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 12:05:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24383 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA24371 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:05:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA05743; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:03:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601302003.OAA05743@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:03:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: scott@thuntek.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5929.822963349@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 29, 96 04:55:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Oh now THAT is disgustingly economical!! I applaud your ingenuity. I ran a > > diskless terminal server for a while myself, thought I was the only wierdo > > who would think to do something that odd... :-) > > I agree - I was kind of impressed when I read this. What's that make > a 4 modem increment cost, about $1500 all in? I don't know what kind > of modem cards are being used here so that's just a WAG. I've never > purchased a terminal mux, either, so I don't even know if this would > be competitive? Do you have these guys set up to advertise the modems > at some IP port range as well for outgoing stuff, or is that purely > incoming? You could do some interesting resource pooling with a few > cooperating daemons.. Hmmmm... [stares off into space for awhile :-] Think bigger, now: 16 ports. High quality external modems. 486DX4/120+MB $200 SMC Ethernet $100 Case/PS/Floppy $100 8MB RAM $250 BocaBoard2016 $230 16xMotorola28.8 $3680 ----- $4560 Even with a disk, this would be quite inexpensive for a fully provisioned terminal server. To compare pricewise to a 10-port Livingston Portmaster 2 (list $2,495), I can put together a high performance FreeBSD box with a disk ($200) for $1080. Add another 8MB of RAM and I'm at $1330, about half the price of the Livingston and I have 60% more ports. To compare pricewise to a 30-port Livingston Portmaster 2E-30 (list $3,750) I could build two of my above boxes, for $2660, have two MORE ports than the Livingston, and still have $5 in beer money for 218 days left over. And remember if you're on a budget, you CUT CORNERS! See if you can get your cousin's old 486DX2/66 MB for $50. Convince him he needs a Pentium. Use an NE-2000 card, $35. Get a dirt cheap case ($30) and to hell with the floppy. Stick at 8MB of used RAM ($200) and run diskless. Now the box only costs $545 instead of $1330. We're still wayyyyyyyy ahead of the bang-for-buck curve. AND the whole thing is totally programmable. FreeBSD's been blowing my socks off for a long time. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 12:47:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA27853 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:47:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from argus.flash.net (argus.flash.net [206.149.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27838 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:47:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lists@localhost) by argus.flash.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00987; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:52 -0600 From: mailing list account Message-Id: <199601302046.OAA00987@argus.flash.net> Subject: Re: R. Winslow's Ignorance To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:52 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601301657.LAA14367@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 30, 96 11:57:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > Programmer superior Robert Winslow writes..... > > >> > Horsehockey! I'm making money selling communication cards, the driver > >> > for which I've spent many thousands of hours with no help from any of > >> > you. > > > >I don't know what all the honk and flap is about, but anyone who > >has ``spent many thousands of hours'' developing a driver for > >a comm card is incompetant. > Your idea of a driver and mine are clearly different. Design a board, > write a comprehensive (you'll probably have to look this word up) portable > driver > that runs in MSDOS, 4 unixes and Windows, write frame relay, X.25 and PPP > protocol engines, several manuals, and an extensive API and call me when > your done. Most likely it wont work. Then when you get it so companies are > willing to spend good money to run in 24 X 7 with conifidence...call me again. > > Idiot. Would you please care to keep this crap to yourselves and stop cc'ing this list? We need flame wars here like we need a head crash... When I see people doing this I kinda hope their heads do crash... I've got nothing against people showing a bit of ego every now and then, but *THIS* is absurd, and completely negates any valid points said on either side. use direct email please, i don't care to see this crap. Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.flash.net - FlashNet Communications - Ft. Worth, Texas From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 12:52:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28310 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:52:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dyson@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28243 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:52:04 -0800 (PST) From: John Dyson Message-Id: <199601302052.MAA28243@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 12:52:03 -0800 (PST) Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Jan30.144633est.20484@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Jan 30, 96 02:40:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Guido van Rooij wrote: > > > > > > up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe > > > old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes > > > > Hmm.....I do not agree that 25 years is old. > > > > -Guido, age 30 > > > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... > I was being absurd, kind-of tounge in cheek making fun of the age of certain competition of ours.... I am an old-fart of 39... Very set in my ways... Those of you who are reading certain newsgroups will know what I mean :-). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:24:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00836 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:24:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00800 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:23:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA19812; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:23:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA04142; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:23:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA15090; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:17:12 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601302117.WAA15090@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, doc@FreeBSD.org Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:17:11 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601300917.KAA09302@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 30, 96 10:13:17 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > In this > particular situation, you could do this by putting the primary DOS > partition, one of the UNIX slices ("partitions" in DOS terminology) > completely within the first 1024 cylinders, and the other UNIX slice > sufficiently in the first 1024 cylinders that the root partition is > below the limit. The rest of the disk would include the rest of the > second UNIX slice and the DOS extended partition. Yup, this sounds reasonable. At least from a Unix point of view -- the extended DOS partition will only be of some use for DOS if there's a driver bypassing the BIOS limitations. One addition: except for booting, FreeBSD does also support more than one slice, so it's possible to put a single slice below the ficticous cylinder 1024, containing just only the root file system, and keep the remainder in another slice that might be located anywhere on the disk. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:25:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00910 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:25:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00900 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07399; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:23:16 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302123.OAA07399@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: gerg@stallion.oz.au (Greg Ungerer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:23:16 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, gerg@stallion.oz.au In-Reply-To: <9601301121.aa20625@cluster.stallion.oz.au> from "Greg Ungerer" at Jan 30, 96 11:21:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >The difference between "high end" and "low end" operation of a "high end" > >board is nothing more than software. > > Hmmm, well perhaps from some vendors this is the case. But, Stallions low > and high end offerings use very different hardware architectures. The low > end relies on "smart" UARTS, with FIFOs, automatic flow control, etc, to > give reasonable cost/performance trade offs. While the high end uses off- > board CPU's and large memory buffers for much better performance, at more > cost. We are only interested in "high end" boards for this discussion. Programming information for "low end" boards is available. Let me restate: 1) A "high end" board needs cooperation of the driver, and generally programming information from the board vendor for it to give you any benefit above a "low end" board. 2) A "high end" board can have a driver written for it without this information, but such a driver *cannot* take advantage of the undocumented features of the board. SO: The difference between "high end" and "low end" operation of a "high end" board is nothing more than software. > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow > >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" > >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. > > Yep, that is what the Stallion medium to high end stuff does. The drivers > I did for Linux for these types of boards uses the same off-board executable > image as the Stallion supported operating systems. I just wrote the host > drivers to the specification of their shared memory interface. I will do > the same thing for FreeBSD drivers for these boards. This is a cool thing you are doing. Are the drivers going to be binary only, or are they going to be source (thus effectively documenting this interface)? It is likely that given sharing of cannonical processing code between interfaces, we will want to provide out own download, or at least pound the interface together (for instance, I believe that the SCO Xenix code uses CLIST structs as DMA transfer target areas, but we don't have that so we will need to provide a different transfer mechanism). > >Generally vendor supplied drivers (at least in the SCO world) have > >had a bunch of other "add-ons", like "transparent print" using a finite > >state automaton based on the attached terminal type to ensure printer > >data transfers only occur with the terminal in ground state in the > >terminals internal escape sequence processing automaton. This takes > >the place of atomic I/O processing of escape sequences and/or dictating > >allowable terminal types from a set of allowable types (ala DEC's VMS > >terminal I/O processing). > > Yeah that is true - that is why I wimped out and didn't do it for Linux > or FreeBSD drivers. So far nobody has asked for it... Does not GNU mscreen > do most of this at application level? No. I might do the work if I get motivated enough. I did much of the original emulation code in the TERM product (Century Software)... the SCO console, VT220, Televideo, Wyse, Qume, and IBM emulations were mostly mine. I'd prefer that it be common and board independent (ie: a feature of the OS, not a feature of the driver) in any case. Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:25:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00934 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:25:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00904 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14857; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:22:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:22:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601302122.QAA14857@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >As far as new boxes go - I probably wouldn't venture much lower than a >486DX4/120 (CPU ~= $100, MB ~= $100) unless I happened to get it for free. >You can't argue with the bang per buck figure. ;-) I like the DX/2-80s at $97. complete. Too many flakey DX4 MBs out there and youve got pleny of horsepower with 80MHZ to do routing and an occasional system build. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:34:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01465 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01421 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:34:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07444; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:31:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302131.OAA07444@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: compile prob To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:31:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: cosmos@sponsor.octet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300501.QAA20880@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 30, 96 04:01:58 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > is broken if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined and either of > or is included before . > > Include first or don;t define _POSIX_SOURCE. Other things may > break if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined. Few programs use only POSIX features. Any chance of fixing this? POSIX validation pretty much requires the definition of _POSIX_SOURCE. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:34:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:34:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.jrihealth.com (mail.jrihealth.com [204.249.32.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01422 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from library.pride.net (danp@library.pride.net [204.249.32.4]) by mail.jrihealth.com (8.3/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id QAA06959; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:33:48 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:33:59 -0500 (EST) From: Dan Polivy To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: CL VideoBlaster card support? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Does 2.1 or -current support the Creative Labs VideoBlaster card? How would I add support for it to the kernel? Dan +=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-+ | JRI HIS MIS Systems Administrator/Tech Support | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | danp@busstop.org dpolivy@jri.org danp@library.pride.net | |\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| | Check out JRI's Homepage at http://www.jri.org | |////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////| | For More Info about JRI Health, call 617.457.8150, | | EMail health@jri.org or check out http://www.jri.org/jrihealth | |\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\| | Check out my NEW [Moving] WWW page (still under construction) | | currently located at: http://server1.pride.net/~danp | +-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:37:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01653 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01632 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07456; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:33:55 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302133.OAA07456@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Better to back out the change to crt0 To: julian@ref.tfs.com (Julian Elischer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:33:55 -0700 (MST) Cc: cimaxp1!jb@werple.net.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300518.VAA07386@ref.tfs.com> from "Julian Elischer" at Jan 29, 96 09:18:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > By backing out the change to crt0, we maintain the status quo - we don't > > move forward - we don't move backward. All that will happen is that > > people will stop yelling. Sigh. > > Ok but it means that we don't have a way to initialise the threads code.... > Terry had an alternative suggestion, > do you reember what it was? I do, so happens. 8-). Use a linker set to set up an initialization function list. If it's not there, it's not called (so it can't cause it to break). If it is there, it "just works" (and again, the alternative situation doesn't break). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:38:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01746 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:38:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01732 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:38:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07468; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:35:18 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302135.OAA07468@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSD & BSDI - disk compatibility... (fwd) To: taob@io.org (Brian Tao) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:35:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: grog@lemis.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Brian Tao" at Jan 30, 96 02:02:40 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, now you come to ask the question, I'm not sure. I interpreted > > it to mean that he wanted to access BSD/OS partitions from FreeBSD. > > If there is a way to read BSD/OS filesystems with Free/NetBSD, I > could have used a few weeks ago. :-/ I moved about 20 gigabytes of > data from our BSD/OS 2.0 server to a NetBSD 1.1 one. Neither NetBSD > nor FreeBSD could mount a BSD/OS drive. Disklabel couldn't make any > sense of the drive, and the fdisk in the FreeBSD installer showed no > partitions. Yet another argument for divorcing FS implementation from logical device mangement using devfs as a framework. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:43:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02075 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:43:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02061 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:43:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA20522; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:43:05 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:43:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199601302143.QAA20522@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter "Re: Linux Netscape 2.0b6a?" (Jan 30, 12:58pm) from: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Subject: Re: Linux Netscape 2.0b6a? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Jan 30, 12:58pm, Bill/Carolyn Pechter wrote: } Subject: Re: Linux Netscape 2.0b6a? } > } > On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Peter Wemm wrote: } > } > > I know the BSDI version of 2.0b6a works fine for me, but it doesn't have } > > Java support in it. } > } > Does somebody know, why those people at mcom deceided not to include } > Java support into the BSDI binary ? } > } > Could it be the case that they have compilation trouble or such ? } > Perhaps they should go and get a FreeBSD system ;-) } > } } It's probably due to ny system threads -- they don't do it in AIX 2.0b6 either } 8-(... } } (And AIX 4.1.x has threads) } According to the bsdi BOF at USENIX it had something to do with not having dlopen, dlsym, dlerror, and dlclose. Of course if netscape wrote the next version of their webbrowser for BSD/OS 2.1 there would mean no more FreeBSD support... } Bill }-- End of excerpt from Bill/Carolyn Pechter -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:49:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02772 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:49:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02740 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:49:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07512; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:38 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302146.OAA07512@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: async i/o To: curt@emergent.com (Curt Mayer) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:38 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601300710.XAA21899@bluewhale.emergent.com> from "Curt Mayer" at Jan 29, 96 11:10:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > any plans for something akin to aioread/aiowrite? a per-io state machine > triggered by a B_CALL hook will get you most of the way there. Or an async call gate that makes any system call into an async call? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:49:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02848 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:49:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02822 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA07490; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:43:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302143.OAA07490@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:43:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601301914.NAA05659@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 30, 96 01:14:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class > microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code > for the 8751 that would do all the dirty work (mainly because I would hate > trying to wire all the digital logic for a traditional watchdog counter, > and I'm not familiar with any of the Maxim-type monolithic watchdog chips). > I don't have PC board facilities available to me and the prototyping cards > are expensive$$$$$. Go down to Radio shack and buy a copper dot-pad prototype board; they are about $10. Then solder a ribbon connector on it, and run a ribbon cable off to a bread board. Put optoisolators on the breadboard before connecting anything else. Alternately, if you can afford 2 prototype boards, put the isolators on the prototype board and save yourself some breadboard space. Run the chips off the local (not the bus) supply. Drop your motherboard clock frequency to 8MHz on your test box so you don't screw yourself from going over the ribbon cable at too high a frequency. Voila, prototype card heaven. In case anyone gets confused about my EE/Programmer comments from the above, I don't claim to be an EE, I claim to be a solid state physicist. So it's OK for me to use a soldering iron, since I still burn my fingers occasionally. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:57:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03583 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:57:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03568 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA06006; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:55:53 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601302155.PAA06006@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:55:53 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302143.OAA07490@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 30, 96 02:43:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Go down to Radio shack and buy a copper dot-pad prototype board; they > are about $10. > > Then solder a ribbon connector on it, and run a ribbon cable off to a > bread board. > > Put optoisolators on the breadboard before connecting anything else. > > Alternately, if you can afford 2 prototype boards, put the isolators > on the prototype board and save yourself some breadboard space. > > Run the chips off the local (not the bus) supply. > > Drop your motherboard clock frequency to 8MHz on your test box so you > don't screw yourself from going over the ribbon cable at too high a > frequency. > > Voila, prototype card heaven. Actually, besides this being very ugly, I was referring to building production models, not prototypes... I need about six. :-) Since I don't have the facilities here to do any sort of PC boards, that leaves me with the ugly option of using PC prototyping cards (or other "build-n-go" solutions). All of which are expensive. However this is a great idea for those of us who want to experiment with building custom hardware and other exciting things. ;-) Ugly. But functional. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 13:58:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03725 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:58:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03697 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:58:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id NAA00699 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:57:50 -0800 Message-Id: <199601302157.NAA00699@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 29 Jan 1996 16:20:13 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 13:57:49 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Oops , I goof . Please send mail to : mail majordomo@rah.star-gate.com subscribe multimedia Sorry about that, Amancio >>> Amancio Hasty Jr said: > You probably want to subscribe to : > mail multimedia@rah.star-gate.com > > subscribe multimedia > > And please give us a pointer to the RA beta software . > > We have had great success with the Linux version of DOOM and I see no > reason why RA (RealAudio) will not work also on FreeBSD. > > Amancio > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:05:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04387 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:05:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04353 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:05:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA07560; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:00:19 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302200.PAA07560@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:00:19 -0700 (MST) Cc: lehey.pad@sni.de, freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601301452.BAA15227@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 31, 96 01:22:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm not sure I see the picture you're painting here. From FreeBSD's point > of view, the following must be met : > 1) The entire root filesystem must be below the 1024 cylinder mark. > 2) If bad144 bad-sector marking has been used (uncommon), the entire BSD > slice must be below the 1024 cylinder mark. Mike is correct. Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the 'a' slice, it would have two effects: a) Restriction #2 above would change to "If bad144 bad-sector marking has been used (uncommon), the root FS and the few sectors following it must be below the 1024 cylinder mark". Essentially, this opens up a lot of space for BSD use on some drives (most notably those where you are likely to use the BAD144 in the first place). b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. The net effect is you could trade a system with swap that has too many bad sectors to operate correctly for a system that will operate correctly but has slightly less swap. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:08:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04703 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04631 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:07:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id XAA11864; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:06:07 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601302206.XAA11864@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:06:06 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601302052.MAA28243@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at Jan 30, 96 12:52:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > of certain competition of ours.... I am an old-fart of 39... Very > set in my ways... Those of you who are reading certain newsgroups > will know what I mean :-). Wearing Birckenstocks you mean? -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:14:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05409 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:14:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05398 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA07578; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:09:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302209.PAA07578@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: R. Winslow's Ignorance To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:09:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: witr@rwwa.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601301657.LAA14367@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 30, 96 11:57:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Your idea of a driver and mine are clearly different. Design a board, > write a comprehensive (you'll probably have to look this word up) portable > driver that runs in MSDOS, 4 unixes and Windows, write frame relay, > X.25 and PPP protocol engines, several manuals, and an extensive API > and call me when your done. Most likely it wont work. Then when you > get it so companies are willing to spend good money to run in 24 X 7 > with conifidence...call me again. > > Idiot. Actually, Dennis, if you are willing to accept 2 instead 4 UNIXes, the comprehensive driver is called "ODI". It would be 4, but the BSD and Linux camps are heavily into NIH in networking code (with the result that the BSD camp kicks butt on most commercial systems, but it's a trade off that the user should be able to choose and can't). The X.25 and PPP are similarly available as protocol modules that run in an ODI framework, though they would have to be rewritten, since they are typically Novell supplied only with Novell OS's. NDIS falls into the same category, with slightly less scope (DOS, Windows, and NT instead fo DOS, Windows, and UNIX). So it's nmot the idea that's flawed, it's the implementation. (If anyone is preparing to complain about performace, let me point out that anything that works is better than anything that doesn't). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:15:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05459 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:15:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05444 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:15:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA05086; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:47 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07573 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:25 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16278 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:45:46 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA02054; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:41:45 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601302141.WAA02054@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Rock Ridge CDs, dir depth limits To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:41:45 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601260858.JAA18933@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 26, 96 09:58:31 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > - related: a working example of the mkisofs command for FreeBSD would > > be nice. I can probably use the aforementioned sw to take the mkisofs > > image to the actual disk. > > The mkisofs in -current sort of works. You have to figure out which > non-optional options to specify, but that's easy. Trial&error until > it doesn't dump core anymore. :-] > > Disclaimer: i've only tried it on the FreeBSD release CD which has a > directory depth of 7 (for the file system CD). > cheers, J"org Keeping my feedback promise: mkisofs seems to have no problems making the required depth CDROM (it contains a really deep source tree). I had to fix 2 things to make it (also) run on the DEC Unix box: - cast the returned pointer of e_malloc() to the right type - rename a number of directories from .adm (note the .) to something not starting with a leading . It just silently leaves out the .adm subtree... (??) A look into the name-rebuild part of the mkisofs source made me decide to take the easy 'mv' route ;-) Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:16:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05511 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05477 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA07602; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:12:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302212.PAA07602@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: intested! To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:12:28 -0700 (MST) Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Jan30.144633est.20484@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Jan 30, 96 02:40:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe > > > old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes > > > > Hmm.....I do not agree that 25 years is old. > > > > -Guido, age 30 > > > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... Time to calculate average age, as well as number of installed systems? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:16:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05520 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05472 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:16:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA05095 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:16:08 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA07599 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:15:44 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA16291 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:45:50 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id WAA01945 for FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:28:36 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601302128.WAA01945@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers list) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:28:35 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I'm reviving an ol' 486 using two 760Mb ESDI disks connected to an Emulex MD21 SCSI-ESDI bridge. This setup is connected to an Adaptec 1542A. Apparantly I'm overlooking something because the 2nd disk (LUN1) is not recognised. Did try to use a 'sd1 at scbus 0 target 0 unit 1' but that was not enough apparantly. What am I missing here? _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:19:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA05875 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ns.ge.com (ns.ge.com [192.35.39.24]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05835 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:19:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from crissy.gemis.ge.com ([3.29.7.57]) by ns.ge.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA21120; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:46 -0500 Received: from salem.ge.com (carsdb.salem.ge.com [3.29.7.15]) by crissy.gemis.ge.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA13407; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:04:31 -0500 Received: from combs.salem.ge.com by salem.ge.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA27676; Tue, 30 Jan 96 17:17:41 EST Received: (from steve@localhost) by combs.salem.ge.com (8.7.2/8.6.11) id RAA15736; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:41 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen F. Combs" Reply-To: CombsSF@salem.ge.com To: Guido van Rooij Cc: "John S. Dyson" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: intested! In-Reply-To: <199601301847.TAA11199@gvr.win.tue.nl> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Nor do I Steve Combs, age 45 On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Guido van Rooij wrote: > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:47:54 +0100 (MET) > From: Guido van Rooij > To: "John S. Dyson" > Cc: hackers@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: intested! > > > up of older computer professionals (many are more than even the ripe > > old age of 25.) A couple of us have seen the mistakes in other OSes > > Hmm.....I do not agree that 25 years is old. > > -Guido, age 30 > =============================================================================== (My employer is in NO WAY responsible for the opinions expressed herein) Stephen F. Combs Internet: CombsSF@Salem.GE.COM GE Industrial Sales & Services Voice: 540.387.8828 Network Services Home: CombsSF-Home@Salem.GE.COM 1501 Roanoke Blvd Home Voice: 540.389.9524 Salem, VA 24153 (not reliable after 9:30pm, 'cuz 'tis my link) =============================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:28:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA11266 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:28:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11167 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:28:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA07645; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:24:30 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601302224.PAA07645@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: intested! To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:24:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: rajp@nando.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601301002.KAA03213@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 30, 96 10:02:46 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > FreeBSD does have one major "problem" that I worry about alot, and that > is the disk metadata thing. We have been improving the situation, and > hopefully soon will make a major performance impact. I can't agree with this one, and this is probably why you quoted the word 'problem'. In case it isn't: I think the correct soloution for a UFS layout file system is delayed ordered writes, which make the same guarantess without the overhead. The VIVAFS does this, and it is a win, even without the other stuff they do that *does* impact on disk layout. UnixWare 2.x does this (and had a patent pending, which should be denied on the basis of prior art) and got a 160% performance increase from UnixWare 1.x to UnixWare 2.x, even after adding SMP synchronization to the kernel. The actual method of implementation is irrelevant: ordered queue insertion and kernel threading are both valid mechanisms. For a non-UFS FS, the correct soloution is transaction tracking, either through journalling (like NTFS and IBM JFS), or logging (like Sprite or LFS). All of these soloutions end up with a performance boost without breaking the consistency guarantees inherent in operation ordering. All of them are a lot more than "five minute fixes". They should not be discounted because they can't be implemented in a day of hard hacking. The *only* valid reason for breaking consistency guarantees is speed of administrative operations and/or temp data storage (data that is to be destroyed on a system reinitialization in any case). To paraphrase a wise friend of mine: "I can make it as fast as you want it to be if it doesn't have to work". Regards, Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:36:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA12054 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA11960 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:36:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA21648; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:34:23 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA04732; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:34:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id XAA15791; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:12:36 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601302212.XAA15791@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: R. Winslow's Ignorance To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:12:35 +0100 (MET) Cc: witr@rwwa.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601301657.LAA14367@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 30, 96 11:57:08 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As dennis wrote: > > >..., but anyone who > > [...] is incompetant. > Idiot. Stop this! I don't agree with Robert's opinion, but stop wasting the bandwidth of other people who have to pay for their email just the same Real Money as you gotta earn with your hard work. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:48:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13035 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:48:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA12954 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:48:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA15028; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:47:32 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:47:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199601302247.RAA15028@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: R. Winslow's Ignorance Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry writes... >Actually, Dennis, if you are willing to accept 2 instead 4 UNIXes, >the comprehensive driver is called "ODI". It would be 4, but the >BSD and Linux camps are heavily into NIH in networking code (with >the result that the BSD camp kicks butt on most commercial systems, >but it's a trade off that the user should be able to choose and can't). > >The X.25 and PPP are similarly available as protocol modules that run >in an ODI framework, though they would have to be rewritten, since they >are typically Novell supplied only with Novell OS's. > > >NDIS falls into the same category, with slightly less scope (DOS, Windows, >and NT instead fo DOS, Windows, and UNIX). > I think that the fact that no-one has good products for these "interfaces" in the WAN world says more than I could. Your argument against building a better mousetrap is questionable. There is a need for these interfaces, but they are flawed and short-sighted for many applications. >(If anyone is preparing to complain about performace, let me point out >that anything that works is better than anything that doesn't). > True, but there are many levels of "working". Its that same reason that some people pay extra for a mercedes or drink one brand of beer and not another. If a product doesnt do the job its not a product.....after that its a matter of quality and taste. >So it's not the idea that's flawed, it's the implementation. > You can argue this, but since people buy it and others dont work well there's evidence that you're not correct. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 14:49:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA13190 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:49:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13159 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:49:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA27325; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:46:27 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199601302246.RAA27325@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: uhclem@nemesis.lonestar.org (Frank Durda IV) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:46:27 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: from "Frank Durda IV" at Jan 30, 96 10:28:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > [9]Darn straight! "Never trust a programmer who's a little too > [9]comfortable with a soldering iron." > [9]:-) > [9] Jordan > > OUCH! Now you've gone and made me burn my finger. :-) > > Frank Durda IV |"I'll huff, and I'll puff, > or uhclem%nemesis@rwsystr.nkn.net | and I'll get promoted." > ^------(this is the fastest route)| - Old Management Saying > or ...letni!rwsys!nemesis!uhclem |(C) 1984 FDIV > > Just a finger. Hell, live dangerously. Solder NAKED. Bill Dec Field Service Nude Soldering Team, 1985 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 15:10:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15648 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15593 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:09:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id AAA22449 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:09:41 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id AAA05073 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:09:41 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id XAA16178 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:56:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601302256.XAA16178@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Rock Ridge CDs, dir depth limits To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:56:11 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601302141.WAA02054@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jan 30, 96 10:41:45 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > mkisofs seems to have no problems making the required depth CDROM > (it contains a really deep source tree). > - rename a number of directories from .adm (note the .) to something > not starting with a leading . > It just silently leaves out the .adm subtree... (??) > A look into the name-rebuild part of the mkisofs source made me > decide to take the easy 'mv' route ;-) Hmm, have you accidentally specified the -L flag? I've just tried to reproduce the behaviour, but failed. This is the original tree: j@uriah 1121% ls -lRA foo total 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 j bin 512 Jan 30 23:43 .bar/ foo/.bar: total 2 -rw-r--r-- 1 j bin 3 Jan 30 23:43 mumble ...and this what i've got from a vn-mounted mkisofs image: uriah # ls -lR /mnt total 4 dr-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 2048 Jan 31 01:43 _bar/ /mnt/_bar: total 0 -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 3 Jan 31 01:43 mumble* -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 15:21:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16794 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:21:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16752 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:20:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA04423; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:17:11 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601301817.SAA04423@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:17:11 +0000 () Cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601302206.XAA11864@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 30, 96 11:06:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > of certain competition of ours.... I am an old-fart of 39... Very > > set in my ways... Those of you who are reading certain newsgroups > > will know what I mean :-). > > Wearing Birckenstocks you mean? > I am showing my ignorance, but what are Birckenstocks??? :-). John From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 15:22:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA16925 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:22:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom14.netcom.com (hasty@netcom14.netcom.com [192.100.81.126]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16899 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:22:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id PAA03705; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:21:01 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:21:01 -0800 From: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Message-Id: <199601302321.PAA03705@netcom14.netcom.com> To: jerry@border.com, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: intested! Cc: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, hackers@freebsd.org, toor@dyson.iquest.net Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... Is there an e-mail for the elderly? Why? Well, I am 40 8) See around boys, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 15:47:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA19957 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:47:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA19936 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id AAA19315 ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:46:36 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id AAA25168 ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:46:36 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id TAA12983; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:18:02 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199601301818.TAA12983@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: innd To: andy@sat.co.at (Andreas Pleschutznig) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:18:02 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <310D1E3A.7393@sat.co.at> from "Andreas Pleschutznig" at "Jan 29, 96 08:21:30 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Andreas Pleschutznig said: > Anyone out there in NetWorld who has a precompiled innd ready for > freebsd ? I don't think it is a good idea. Take the config.data included in the unoff2 or unoff3 dist. from Dave Barr (ftp.math.psu.edu I think) and compile with it. I know it works, its mine :-) Or I can send it to you... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 15:49:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA20230 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:49:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA20219 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:49:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA13034; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:50:21 -0800 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:50:21 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Maybe bug in fsetpos? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On the BSD/OS list there's mention of a wrong type to the second parameter in the fsetpos function. I didn't look at it, but in FreeBSD it's a long, and the BSD/OS patch makes it a quad_t or something like that. My question is if the parameter is wrong in freebsd's fsetpos.c... From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 16:08:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21561 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from hauki.clinet.fi (root@hauki.clinet.fi [194.100.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA21487 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:07:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from katiska.clinet.fi (root@katiska.clinet.fi [194.100.0.4]) by hauki.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) with ESMTP id CAA04158; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:07:44 +0200 (EET) Received: (hsu@localhost) by katiska.clinet.fi (8.7.3/8.6.4) id CAA13746; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:07:44 +0200 (EET) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:07:44 +0200 (EET) Message-Id: <199601310007.CAA13746@katiska.clinet.fi> From: Heikki Suonsivu To: Joe Greco Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-Reply-To: <199601301746.LAA05539@brasil.moneng.mei.com> References: <199601292254.AAA19955@plentium.clinet.fi> <199601301746.LAA05539@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Organization: Clinet Ltd, Espoo, Finland Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco writes: > > I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with > > 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of > > nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of > > days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark > > professionals value the most. > > My Web server was up 121 days before a power outage knocked it down, that is > pretty good given that the site record is (I believe) 135 days for a SunOS > 4.1 box. The point is running several services and lots of users in the same machine. It digs a lot more bugs up. -- Heikki Suonsivu, T{ysikuu 10 C 83/02210 Espoo/FINLAND, hsu@clinet.fi work +358-0-4375209 fax -4555276 home -8031121 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 16:25:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22963 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22908 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:24:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA20298 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:24:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199601310024.TAA20298@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: R. Winslow's Ignorance In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:57:08 EST." <199601301657.LAA14367@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:24:13 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Programmer superior Robert Winslow writes..... That's *Withrow*. You can rant about me anyway you want, as long as you spell my name right. ;-) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 16:46:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA25171 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.152.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25163 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:45:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA14945; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:45:33 -0500 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:45:33 -0500 (EST) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Ron G. Minnich wrote: > I did not see this mentioned yet, maybe i missed it but i wanted to make > sure freebsd people knew about it. The connectix quickcam reverse > engineering is finished, so if you buy a quickcam you've got a load of > source to work with. So much for the quickcam NDA. Long live the net. > Just buy the el-cheapo $75 quickcam minus their development software (and > their crummy NDA) and journey to: Ummmm, Actually this is not quite correct. The reverse engineering project is NOT done. There are still MANY problems that are being investigated and worked on.. There are currently user programs that are capable of running the QuickCam, but a kernel driver is needed to achieve any great frame rate. Thomas Davis and myself are currently working on a standard API for the kernel driver, so that Linux/FreeBSD will use the same user programs (which will eventually be rewritten to use the kernel driver instead of raw I/O port access). We expect the kernel driver to be finished within a week or two- It's a fairly simple device (though the driver will change as reverse engineering progresses). Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 16:57:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26153 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:57:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from argus.flash.net (argus.flash.net [206.149.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26138 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:57:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lists@localhost) by argus.flash.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA01710; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:55:24 -0600 From: mailing list account Message-Id: <199601310055.SAA01710@argus.flash.net> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:55:23 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302003.OAA05743@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 30, 96 02:03:09 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > Think bigger, now: 16 ports. High quality external modems. > > 486DX4/120+MB $200 > SMC Ethernet $100 > Case/PS/Floppy $100 > 8MB RAM $250 > BocaBoard2016 $230 > 16xMotorola28.8 $3680 > ----- > $4560 > > Even with a disk, this would be quite inexpensive for a fully provisioned > terminal server. > > To compare pricewise to a 10-port Livingston Portmaster 2 (list $2,495), > I can put together a high performance FreeBSD box with a disk ($200) for > $1080. Add another 8MB of RAM and I'm at $1330, about half the price of the > Livingston and I have 60% more ports. > > To compare pricewise to a 30-port Livingston Portmaster 2E-30 (list $3,750) > I could build two of my above boxes, for $2660, have two MORE ports than the > Livingston, and still have $5 in beer money for 218 days left over. > > And remember if you're on a budget, you CUT CORNERS! See if you can get > your cousin's old 486DX2/66 MB for $50. Convince him he needs a Pentium. > Use an NE-2000 card, $35. Get a dirt cheap case ($30) and to hell with the > floppy. Stick at 8MB of used RAM ($200) and run diskless. Now the box > only costs $545 instead of $1330. > > We're still wayyyyyyyy ahead of the bang-for-buck curve. > > AND the whole thing is totally programmable. not exactly, what is the overhead involved in polling activity on the boca cards compared with a livingston... livingston wins on performance. there are other advantages to using a dedicated terminal server such as Livingston offers, but i leave that as an excercise for the reader :^) now here is a cost cutting idea: does anyone know how well freebsd stacks against say a cisco 2500 series router? cisco 4000? cisco 4500? say using a p5-100? p5-166? > FreeBSD's been blowing my socks off for a long time. ;-) mine too! Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.flash.net - FlashNet Communications - Ft. Worth, Texas From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 16:58:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26205 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:58:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26191 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 16:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa17171; 30 Jan 96 16:57 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Terry Lambert Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:51:11 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302123.OAA07399@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 30, 96 02:23:16 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601311051.aa00088@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > >The difference between "high end" and "low end" operation of a "high end" > > >board is nothing more than software. > > > > Hmmm, well perhaps from some vendors this is the case. But, Stallions low > > and high end offerings use very different hardware architectures. The low > > end relies on "smart" UARTS, with FIFOs, automatic flow control, etc, to > > give reasonable cost/performance trade offs. While the high end uses off- > > board CPU's and large memory buffers for much better performance, at more > > cost. > > We are only interested in "high end" boards for this discussion. > Programming information for "low end" boards is available. > OK, I see your point. I neglected to even consider conventional "dumb" boards as part of the picture. (Less than low end :-) [snip] > > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow > > >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" > > >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. > > > > Yep, that is what the Stallion medium to high end stuff does. The drivers > > I did for Linux for these types of boards uses the same off-board executable > > image as the Stallion supported operating systems. I just wrote the host > > drivers to the specification of their shared memory interface. I will do > > the same thing for FreeBSD drivers for these boards. > > This is a cool thing you are doing. Are the drivers going to be binary > only, or are they going to be source (thus effectively documenting this > interface)? The host driver code will be available in source form. It has been available for Linux for about 12 months now. The slave (that is download) code will only be available in binary. It was just easier to use Stallions standard image, since it has just about everything you will ever need to do in it. And in any case most people will not have the tools to build it... The interface is documented, the header file included in the Linux package cdk.h has most of the programing details. Its pretty light on real description of how the interface works. Nobody much has been interrested up to now... > > It is likely that given sharing of cannonical processing code between > interfaces, we will want to provide out own download, or at least > pound the interface together (for instance, I believe that the SCO > Xenix code uses CLIST structs as DMA transfer target areas, but we > don't have that so we will need to provide a different transfer > mechanism). Well, the boards we are talking about here don't use DMA, but rather use a Dual Ported Memory arrangement, a shared memory region that is visible to both the host and slave processors. For SCO it is better to bypass CLISTS all together. The most common solutions are to implement your own line discipline, or simply bypass the stardard one all together when appropriate. Certainly it would be nice if the line discipline had the ability to "negioate" processing modes with the driver - better than trying to hack around and bypass it. The SVR4 streams ldterm module can sort of do this. So that it can doing nothing but pass data messages through in an ideal case. Obviously for the true intelligent boards you want to be able to do as few data copies as possible - ideally direct from user space into the boards shared memory buffers... > > > >Generally vendor supplied drivers (at least in the SCO world) have > > >had a bunch of other "add-ons", like "transparent print" using a finite > > >state automaton based on the attached terminal type to ensure printer > > >data transfers only occur with the terminal in ground state in the > > >terminals internal escape sequence processing automaton. This takes > > >the place of atomic I/O processing of escape sequences and/or dictating > > >allowable terminal types from a set of allowable types (ala DEC's VMS > > >terminal I/O processing). > > > > Yeah that is true - that is why I wimped out and didn't do it for Linux > > or FreeBSD drivers. So far nobody has asked for it... Does not GNU mscreen > > do most of this at application level? > > No. > > I might do the work if I get motivated enough. I did much of the original > emulation code in the TERM product (Century Software)... the SCO console, > VT220, Televideo, Wyse, Qume, and IBM emulations were mostly mine. > > I'd prefer that it be common and board independent (ie: a feature of the > OS, not a feature of the driver) in any case. Absolutely. No point in each driver re-doing this. Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 17:12:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27561 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:12:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from winjef (pppa01.gateway.net.hk [202.76.19.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27468 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from john@localhost) by winjef (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA01307; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:20 GMT Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 14:46:19 +0000 () From: John Beukema To: Robert Nordier cc: Paul Blonde , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: compilers In-Reply-To: <199601292032.WAA00449@eac.iafrica.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Robert Nordier wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, Paul Blonde wrote: > > > > I am interested in finding out if there is any > > effort/interest in creating (if it does not already exist) > > an advanced IDE comparable to the > > Borland/Microsoft/Watcom/etc. environments for > > FreeBSD and/or Linux. > > Ever heard of Emacs? :-) > > Seriously, though, by Integrated Development Environment do you mean > DOS-based stuff like (I guess this is pretty out of date) Turbo C 2.0 > or the Microsoft Programmer's Workbench, or are you talking Windows- > based things like Visual C++ or Delphi? Al Williams's recent series in Dr Dobbs is integrating dflat (the character based GUI platform) with gcc and gdb on the DOS side. It might be an interesting starting point. jbeukema From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 17:18:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27974 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27962 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:18:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14550(8)>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:48 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177479>; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:41 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 11:21:30 PST." <1976.823029690@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:30 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Jan30.171741pst.177479@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <1976.823029690@time.cdrom.com> Jordan write: >Once vic has been >hacked to support this, I think you're going to see a lot of QC owners >on the MBONE! :-) Hmn, I was sending video the other day with vic and my QuickCam. The URL you gave has a pointer to grabber-qcam.cc! Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 17:20:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA28250 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:20:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA28177 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:20:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA04436; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:10:59 +1100 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:10:59 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601310110.MAA04436@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: compile prob Cc: cosmos@sponsor.octet.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> Include first or don;t define _POSIX_SOURCE. Other things may >> break if _POSIX_SOURCE is defined. Few programs use only POSIX features. >Any chance of fixing this? Of course. But not yesterday. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 17:27:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA28759 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:27:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA28742 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA23649; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:27:00 -0800 (PST) To: Bill Fenner cc: "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:17:30 PST." <96Jan30.171741pst.177479@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:27:00 -0800 Message-ID: <23647.823051620@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hmn, I was sending video the other day with vic and my QuickCam. The URL you > gave has a pointer to grabber-qcam.cc! Really? All I can see is: Koji OKAMURA's grabber-gcam.cc for vic using libqcam.a. And that actually points to a vicbin for linux! (?!) You stumble over a link I haven't someplace? How about putting your version of vic for QC owners up on rah.star-gate.com? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 18:02:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA01312 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:02:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA01277 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:02:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA12189; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:25:20 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199601310125.RAA12189@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: Program getting signal 11 for no obvious reason To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:25:20 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Jan 25, 96 06:48:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I'm trying to figure out why I'm getting a SIGSEG on a cgi-bin > I just wrote, have gotten to the point where I'm blind to possible problems, > so figured I'd ask here and see if anyone can point out what is wrong. In case it's *not* a hardware problem, you should note that if you fprintf(stderr, ...) from a CGI script the output shows up in logs/error_log ... at least it works this way with Apache. -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 18:16:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA02096 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:16:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA02035 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:16:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA16885; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:56:42 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601310226.MAA16885@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:56:42 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302155.PAA06006@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 30, 96 03:55:53 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > Actually, besides this being very ugly, I was referring to building > production models, not prototypes... I need about six. :-) Since I don't > have the facilities here to do any sort of PC boards, that leaves me with > the ugly option of using PC prototyping cards (or other "build-n-go" > solutions). All of which are expensive. I can do PCBs. The real problem being that even if I sell one to everyone here, I still won't be competing pricewise with a large manufacturer. At a guess, I'd say that a bare board (no parts) would come to ~$30 if I were to do 10 or more. (This is assuming that there was very little actually on the board). If this is desirable and nobody's got anything more attractive, I guess I can come up with something. Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). (My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 18:46:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA04164 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:46:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04141 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:46:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA17049; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:27:19 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601310257.NAA17049@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: signal masks and select To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:27:18 +1030 (CST) Cc: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9601301744.AA29546@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Jan 30, 96 09:44:51 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Marty Leisner stands accused of saying: > > > Select seems to have a well know problem... The solution is also well known. See Stevens (Advanced Programming in the Unix Environment), start with the discussion on page 286 and work your way through it. This book really is a _must_ for anyone working with C under Unix. > Is there any interest into making a select call in the kernel with > a new signal mask...so the above code segment becomes atomic > (but if you use it, it's not portable to other Unixes without this > enhancement...) No. > marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 18:52:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA04588 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:52:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA04545 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 18:52:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA17096; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:32:52 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601310302.NAA17096@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:32:51 +1030 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601302143.OAA07490@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 30, 96 02:43:47 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > Go down to Radio shack and buy a copper dot-pad prototype board; they > are about $10. > > Then solder a ribbon connector on it, and run a ribbon cable off to a > bread board. Hey presto, instant RF-to-logic converter. You can now reset your PC by opening your 'fridge door or putting on the washing. > Put optoisolators on the breadboard before connecting anything else. Yetch. Cheap optos are too slow, and fast ones are too expensive. > Terry Lambert -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 19:27:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA06437 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06430 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:27:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA17213; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:04:31 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601310334.OAA17213@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:04:30 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601301914.NAA05659@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 30, 96 01:14:38 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class > microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code > for the 8751 that would do all the dirty work (mainly because I would hate > trying to wire all the digital logic for a traditional watchdog counter, > and I'm not familiar with any of the Maxim-type monolithic watchdog chips). > I don't have PC board facilities available to me and the prototyping cards > are expensive$$$$$. Hmm. I wouldn't bother with the micro, too expensive. Use an 8254 and a 1MHz crystal, with a GAL decoding the 8254 off the bus. The card would be small enough to not need a backpanel insert either. (You would use two timers cascaded as a prescaler to give you a mximum run period of a bit over 2000 seconds, and the third to time the reset pulse.) This would be _reasonably_ straightforward, but don't shoot me if I've missed something obvious. If this is something that would be popular, (as I said already...) I'll have a look at doing it. > ... Joe -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 19:54:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA08618 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from andante.cis.temple.edu (andante.cis.temple.edu [155.247.182.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08596 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 19:54:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lafollet@localhost) by andante.cis.temple.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id WAA08824 for hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:48:20 -0500 From: Paul LaFollette Message-Id: <199601310348.WAA08824@andante.cis.temple.edu> Subject: Any interest in Quickcam Driver To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:48:19 +0000 (WET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I managed to fall off of the hackers list a while back, so I don't know how much activity there already may be in the Connectix Quickcam, but I finally have a driver working which I would be more than happy to share if there is interest and no one else has already done a better job. I have received no information from the company, signed no non-disclosure documents, and have based this entirely on information I have gleaned from the net and my own experimentation. It works tolerably well, appears to be stable, and supports all of the features of the camera that I know of except the bidirectional port (which I am currently working on.) I am getting frame reates of around 20/sec in 80 x 60 mode and about 3 or 4/sec in 320 x 240. If you are intersted, I would be happy to tar it up along with a demo program and a little documentation and stick it in /pub/incoming somewhere (only please tell me where.) Wanted to check first though that someone hasn't already done it and that y'all aren't concerned about the fact that the Quickcam folks don't seem to be enthusiastic about details of their product being known. (All the more reason to make them known as far as I am concerned, but that is just me.) I rather hope you are interested. A couple years ago you traded me a major device number in return for the ctx driver. It's a nice integer and I use it often, but it is starting to get a little shabby and I was hoping to maybe pick up a second one. :) Paul S. LaFollette, Jr. Assoc. Professor CIS Dept. Temple University Philadelphia, PA, USA lafollet@andante.cis.temple.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 20:19:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA10785 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:19:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10775 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:19:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA01079; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:19:02 -0800 Message-Id: <199601310419.UAA01079@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Bill Fenner , "Ron G. Minnich" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 17:27:00 PST." <23647.823051620@time.cdrom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:19:01 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Cool, if someone can send me the bits I will be happy to make it available on rah. After I get the quickcam stuff , I will update my mbone related stuff for FreeBSD and finally move the web page to the FreeBSD Web page under the multimedia section. >>> "Jordan K. Hubbard" said: > > Hmn, I was sending video the other day with vic and my QuickCam. The URL you > > gave has a pointer to grabber-qcam.cc! > > Really? All I can see is: > Koji OKAMURA's grabber-gcam.cc for vic using libqcam.a. > > And that actually points to a vicbin for linux! (?!) > > You stumble over a link I haven't someplace? How about putting your > version of vic for QC owners up on rah.star-gate.com? :-) > > Jordan > From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 20:26:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA11361 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:26:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (eldorado.net-tel.co.uk [193.122.171.253]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11318 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:25:29 -0800 (PST) From: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Received: (from root@localhost) by eldorado.net-tel.co.uk (8.6.12/8.6.10) id EAA19410 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:24:34 GMT X400-Received: by mta "eldorado" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:20:59 +0000 X400-Received: by mta "net-tel cambridge" in "/PRMD=net-tel/ADMD=gold 400/C=gb/"; Relayed; Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:20:56 +0000 X400-Received: by "/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"; Relayed; Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:20:56 +0000 X400-MTS-Identifier: ["/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/";hst:29545-960131042056-0AFA] X400-Content-Type: P2-1984 (2) X400-Originator: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Original-Encoded-Information-Types: IA5-Text X400-Recipients: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 4:20:56 +0000 Content-Identifier: Re: Watchdog tim Message-Id: <"arg-home.net-tel-0131042105-8916*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel Computer Systems Ltd/PRMD=Net-Tel/ADMD=Gold 400/C=GB/"@MHS> To: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <"SunOS:19241-960131022246-304F*/DD.RFC-822=owner-hackers(a)freebsd.org/O=internet/PRMD=NET-TEL/ADMD=GOLD 400/C=GB/"@MHS> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class > microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code > for the 8751 that would do all the dirty work (mainly because I would hate > trying to wire all the digital logic for a traditional watchdog counter, > and I'm not familiar with any of the Maxim-type monolithic watchdog chips). > I don't have PC board facilities available to me and the prototyping cards > are expensive$$$$$. Why not hang it off the parallel port? From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 20:27:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA11468 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.infinet.com (mail1.infinet.com [206.103.240.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA11461 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:27:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from p930 (cmh-p065.infinet.com [206.103.242.69]) by mail1.infinet.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA26050; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:23:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <310EEF94.38D7@cylatech.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:27:00 -0500 From: Wilson MacGyver Organization: CylaTech Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0GoldB1 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." CC: Wilson MacGyver , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Linux compatibility mode include Voxware? References: <199601300548.VAA00579@rah.star-gate.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Do you mind pointing me to the specific http path . I couldn't find > anything that resemble linux. http://www.realaudio.com/products/player/beta2.0form.html have fun! - Wilson MacGyver macgyver@cylatech.com -------------------------------------- Veni, Vidi, Concidi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 20:47:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA13019 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13002 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 20:47:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA14046; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:44:04 +1100 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:44:04 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601310444.PAA14046@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@freebsd.org, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Maybe bug in fsetpos? Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On the BSD/OS list there's mention of a wrong type to the second >parameter in the fsetpos function. >I didn't look at it, but in FreeBSD it's a long, and the BSD/OS patch Nope. >makes it a quad_t or something like that. >My question is if the parameter is wrong in freebsd's fsetpos.c... The second arg to fsetpos() has always had type `const fpos_t *' (ANSI standard) in FreeBSD. fpos_t had type long in FreeBSD-1.x. It has type `long long' in FreeBSD-2.x. Portable applications shouldn't notice the difference. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 21:04:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA14640 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:04:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14499 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:04:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA14677; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:59:06 +1100 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:59:06 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601310459.PAA14677@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: gerg@stallion.oz.au, terry@lambert.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >[snip] >> > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow >> > >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" >> > >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. >> > >... >.. >The interface is documented, the header file included in the Linux package >cdk.h has most of the programing details. Its pretty light on real >description of how the interface works. Nobody much has been interrested up >to now... It's also light on the slip and ppp interfaces :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 21:27:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA17524 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:27:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17511 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 21:27:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa20079; 30 Jan 96 21:27 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Bruce Evans Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:20:44 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601310459.PAA14677@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Jan 31, 96 03:59:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9601311520.aa01463@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans writes: > >[snip] > >> > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow > >> > >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" > >> > >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. > >> > >... > > >.. > >The interface is documented, the header file included in the Linux package > >cdk.h has most of the programing details. Its pretty light on real > >description of how the interface works. Nobody much has been interrested up > >to now... > > It's also light on the slip and ppp interfaces :-). > There aren't any. All of that is handled in the usual protocol stacks on the host, none if this is downloaded to the slave. Well, not yet anyway... Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 22:51:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA23116 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:51:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA23108 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:51:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id HAA08418; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:45:18 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA17472; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:42:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:42:14 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: ports@FreeBSD.ORG cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <199601310019.BAA13863@knobel.gun.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. The appended patch save under patches-ab. The -mpentium option has to be added as command line option to generate pentium code. It seems to me, that even -O9 has some effect... Try a benchmark (bytebench's dhry2reg) with: -s -pipe -static -mpentium -O9 -fomit-frame-pointer For production code the authors suggest (as sane maximum) -O6. See http page: http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html # New ports collection makefile for: pgcc - Pentium gcc # Date created: Tue Jan 30 21:15:31 MET 1996 # Based on: gcc-2.7.2 # Pentium patches: http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html # Whom: Andreas Klemm # DISTNAME= gcc-2.7.2 PKGNAME= gcc-2.7.2p-p6 WRKSRC= ${WRKDIR}/${DISTNAME} MASTER_SITES= ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/ CATEGORIES+= lang MAINTAINER= andreas@knobel.gun.de #didn't find a ftp site for patches yet, they offer diff via http *sigh* #PATCH_SITES= ${MASTER_SITES} #PATCHFILES= gcc-2.7.2-2.7.2p-pl6.diff PATCH_STRIP= -p1 HAS_CONFIGURE= TRUE CONFIGURE_ARGS= --prefix=/usr/local --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld pentium-unknown-freebsd do-build: cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} bootstrap do-install: cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} install CC="stage2/xgcc -Bstage2/" CFLAGS="-O2" .include patch-ab: *** gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:40 1996 *************** *** 316,322 **** #ifndef VMS #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 316,322 ---- #ifndef VMS #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; *** gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:52 1996 *************** *** 49,55 **** #endif #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 49,55 ---- #endif #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; *** gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:05 1996 *************** *** 94,100 **** extern int sys_nerr; #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 94,100 ---- extern int sys_nerr; #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; *** gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:10 1996 *************** *** 7438,7444 **** #ifndef VMS #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 7438,7444 ---- #ifndef VMS #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; *** gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:15 1996 *************** *** 177,183 **** extern int sys_nerr; #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 177,183 ---- extern int sys_nerr; #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; *** gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:20 1996 *************** *** 87,93 **** #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; --- 87,93 ---- #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR extern int sys_nerr; ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; #else extern char *sys_errlist[]; -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 23:05:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA23868 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23863 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:04:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id BAA11888; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:03:19 -0600 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:03:18 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: mailing list account cc: Joe Greco , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601310055.SAA01710@argus.flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, mailing list account wrote: > now here is a cost cutting idea: does anyone know how well freebsd stacks > against say a cisco 2500 series router? cisco 4000? cisco 4500? say using > a p5-100? p5-166? >From what I have seen gated will do just about anything a cisco will (IP that is). However, the cisco boxes have high speed route processors and other things that the PC can't compete with. I am going to be getting a FreeBSD ethernet router box together using a few multiport de21x4x based cards. The ipfw stuff should make for a good firewall/filter box. :) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 23:12:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA24374 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA24254 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:11:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id XAA01231; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:11:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:11:44 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601310711.XAA01231@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de CC: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: (message from Andreas Klemm on Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:42:14 +0100 (MET)) Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk * On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: * * > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. Now compiling it. Will commit later after testing packaging. Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 23:14:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA24582 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:14:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA24576 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA18000; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:56:55 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199601310726.RAA18000@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:56:54 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <"arg-home.net-tel-0131042105-8916*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel from "Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk" at Jan 31, 96 04:20:56 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk stands accused of saying: > > > I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class > > microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code > > Why not hang it off the parallel port? No reset line on the port 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 23:29:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA25905 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:29:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA25895 Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:28:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA00334; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:28:43 -0800 (PST) To: Andreas Klemm cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:42:14 +0100." Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:28:43 -0800 Message-ID: <332.823073323@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > The appended patch save under patches-ab. Now, of course, the real question - have you tried compiling a complete system or kernel with it yet? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Jan 30 23:33:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA26274 for hackers-outgoing; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:33:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA26250 for ; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:32:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01061; Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:31:19 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601310731.XAA01061@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Paul LaFollette cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:48:19 GMT." <199601310348.WAA08824@andante.cis.temple.edu> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:31:19 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: Paul LaFollette Subject: Any interest in Quickcam Driver I managed to fall off of the hackers list a while back, so I don't know how much activity there already may be in the Connectix Quickcam, but I finally have a driver working which I would be more than happy to share if there is interest and no one else has already done a better job. Grrr... too bad you didn't write this about 4 hours ago. I'm about 70% done with a linux-compatible quick-cam driver too. :-) I have received no information from the company, signed no non-disclosure documents, and have based this entirely on information I have gleaned from the net and my own experimentation. It works tolerably well, appears to be stable, and supports all of the features of the camera that I know of except the bidirectional port (which I am currently working on.) I am getting frame reates of around 20/sec in 80 x 60 mode and about 3 or 4/sec in 320 x 240. Bummer, I was hoping we'd see a significant speedup with the move out of user mode, but direct I/O is direct I/O. I've coded up support for mmaping memory directly into the buffer, but polling that lpt port is still the bottleneck. If you are intersted, I would be happy to tar it up along with a demo program and a little documentation and stick it in /pub/incoming somewhere (only please tell me where.) Wanted to check first though that someone hasn't already done it and that y'all aren't concerned about the fact that the Quickcam folks don't seem to be enthusiastic about details of their product being known. (All the more reason to make them know as far as I am concerned, but that is just me.) I rather hope you are interested. A couple years ago you traded me a major device number in return for the ctx driver. It's a nice integer and I use it often, but it is starting to get a little shabby and I was hoping to maybe pick up a second one. :) Guess who's driver and major number I ripped off as a starting point. :-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 00:01:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA28411 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:01:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA28394 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:01:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA01009; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:00:09 -0800 Message-Id: <199601310800.AAA01009@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Andreas Klemm cc: ports@FreeBSD.ORG, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:42:14 +0100." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:00:08 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Has anyone dare to build the stock gcc with this compiler and then do a make world. I seem to recollect that Rob Mallory stated that the stock gcc recompiled with the pentium gcc seems to be smaller and run faster... Amancio >>> Andreas Klemm said: > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > The appended patch save under patches-ab. > The -mpentium option has to be added as command line option to > generate pentium code. > It seems to me, that even -O9 has some effect... > Try a benchmark (bytebench's dhry2reg) with: > -s -pipe -static -mpentium -O9 -fomit-frame-pointer > > For production code the authors suggest (as sane maximum) -O6. > See http page: > http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html > > # New ports collection makefile for: pgcc - Pentium gcc > # Date created: Tue Jan 30 21:15:31 MET 1996 > # Based on: gcc-2.7.2 > # Pentium patches: http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html > # Whom: Andreas Klemm > # > > DISTNAME= gcc-2.7.2 > PKGNAME= gcc-2.7.2p-p6 > WRKSRC= ${WRKDIR}/${DISTNAME} > MASTER_SITES= ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/ > CATEGORIES+= lang > > MAINTAINER= andreas@knobel.gun.de > > #didn't find a ftp site for patches yet, they offer diff via http *sigh* > #PATCH_SITES= ${MASTER_SITES} > #PATCHFILES= gcc-2.7.2-2.7.2p-pl6.diff > > PATCH_STRIP= -p1 > > HAS_CONFIGURE= TRUE > CONFIGURE_ARGS= --prefix=/usr/local --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld pentium -unknown-freebsd > > do-build: > cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} bootstrap > > do-install: > cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} install CC="stage2/xgcc -Bstage2/" CFLAGS="-O2" > > .include > > > patch-ab: > *** gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:40 1996 > *************** > *** 316,322 **** > #ifndef VMS > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 316,322 ---- > #ifndef VMS > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > *** gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:52 1996 > *************** > *** 49,55 **** > #endif > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 49,55 ---- > #endif > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > *** gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:05 1996 > *************** > *** 94,100 **** > > extern int sys_nerr; > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 94,100 ---- > > extern int sys_nerr; > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > *** gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:10 1996 > *************** > *** 7438,7444 **** > #ifndef VMS > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 7438,7444 ---- > #ifndef VMS > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > *** gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:15 1996 > *************** > *** 177,183 **** > > extern int sys_nerr; > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 177,183 ---- > > extern int sys_nerr; > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > *** gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:20 1996 > *************** > *** 87,93 **** > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > --- 87,93 ---- > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > extern int sys_nerr; > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > #else > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > -- > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > \/ > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz > apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 00:04:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA28630 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:04:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from warrane.connect.com.au (warrane.connect.com.au [192.189.54.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA28567 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:03:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by warrane.connect.com.au with UUCP id SAA15697 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:56:09 +1100 Received: by rex.sfe.com.au id AA28625 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:49:01 +1100 From: Paul Hatchman Message-Id: <199601310749.AA28625@rex.sfe.com.au> Subject: Re: signal masks and select To: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com (Marty Leisner) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:49:00 +1100 (EST) Cc: linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9601301744.AA29546@gnu.mc.xerox.com> from "Marty Leisner" at Jan 30, 96 09:44:51 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Select seems to have a well know problem... > > If the idea is to block on select and wait for a signal to kick you out, > there's a problem... > > if you implement code: > > set_sigmask(unblock desired signals) > select(...) > > you have a small window where the signal could sneak through and won't > kick you out of select...so the solution is select can't block forever > in select (so you have to select for a limited period and poll to see > if the signal snuck in...) > > Is there any interest into making a select call in the kernel with > a new signal mask...so the above code segment becomes atomic > (but if you use it, it's not portable to other Unixes without this > enhancement...) > > Comments? This can be "solved" by using setjmp/longjmp with select. ie if (setjmp (env, 1) == 0) { set_sigmask(unblock desired signals) select(...) } and your signal handler does a longjmp (env) There are drawbacks to this.. If you want to unblock signals outside of the select, you must keep extra state information around, so that the signal handler knows whether to do a normal return or a longjmp. May not be elegant, but it is surely better than using non portable methods. Actually is this truely portable? Will all unicies support longjmp from a signal handler? - Paul -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Paul Hatchman, | Project Leader, | paul@sfe.com.au Sydney Futures Exchange, Australia | Tel: +61 2 2560567 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 00:39:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA01096 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:39:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA01089 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:39:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id AAA01609; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:38:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199601310838.AAA01609@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:11:44 PST." <199601310711.XAA01231@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 00:38:57 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I think that you guys better check with Rob Mallory his mpeg_play compiled with whatever patches he has for gcc is about 20% faster than then the gcc-2.7.2p6 that I have over here . At the very lease someone should try to benchmark the new gcc-2.7.2p6 Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 01:22:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA03713 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA03689 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA10484 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:21:45 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA10009 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:21:45 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA19929 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:02 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601310912.KAA19929@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601302200.PAA07560@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 30, 96 03:00:19 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: [bad144] > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. Nothing mandates this. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 01:22:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA03816 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA03770 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id BAA02994; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:22:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601310922.BAA02994@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de CC: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: <199601310711.XAA01231@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> (asami@cs.berkeley.edu) Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk * Now compiling it. Will commit later after testing packaging. Finished, made a few more little modifications and commited it. The package will be up for ftp too shortly. I used the http site for the patch file instead of including the 800KB file in the patches/ directory. The ftpget script we are testing now can handle this; and there is a copy on ftp.freebsd.org, so regular ncftp users will just get it from the backup site. People, please benchmark it! And thanks for the port, Andreas! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 01:31:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA04464 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:31:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA04423 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:30:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA14103 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:31:28 +0800 Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 31 Jan 96 09:23:13 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199601310459.PAA14677@godzilla.zeta.org.au>, <9601311520.aa01463@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk gerg@stallion.oz.au (Greg Ungerer) writes: >Bruce Evans writes: >> >[snip] >> >> > >It is possible to download portions of the tty subsystem, such as flow >> >> > >control (in and out of band) and cannonical processing to a "high end" >> >> > >board. To do so, you need serious documentation on the board. >> >> > >... >> >> >.. >> >The interface is documented, the header file included in the Linux package >> >cdk.h has most of the programing details. Its pretty light on real >> >description of how the interface works. Nobody much has been interrested up >> >to now... >> >> It's also light on the slip and ppp interfaces :-). >> >There aren't any. All of that is handled in the usual protocol stacks >on the host, none if this is downloaded to the slave. Well, not yet >anyway... >Seeya >Gerg It'd be really cool to be able to download async HDLC or slip framing code to the processor. Being able to receive decoded, crc-checked "frames" from the card would be really cool. :-) But then again, host CPU is getting pretty cheap these days. We (the company I work for) use Stallion's sync cards on our SVR4 machines. It does most the HDLC framing and cooking on-board. In that particular case, we hacked pppd so that it didn't push the asyhdlc STREAMS module onto the stack, and fed the hdlc frames _directly_ into the ppp module with no encoding/decoding required at all. It's really cool when STREAMS works the way it was intended to. ;-) Cheers, -Peter >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com >Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 >33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 01:54:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA06297 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA06246 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 01:53:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA14754 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:54:19 +0800 Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 31 Jan 96 09:47:17 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199601292254.AAA19955@plentium.clinet.fi>, <199601301746.LAA05539@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) writes: >> One interesting note, I benchmark FreeBSD vs. Linux (and used to SVR4) >> regularly in order to evaluate places where performance might/should >> be improved. I am *brutal* to FreeBSD, but it is getting difficult to >> find places where it can easily be improved (some of the performance >> "nits" are due to differences in philosophy and not actual performance >> problems.) With the latest pipe improvements, I am running out of steam. >> Indeed, my goal is to "find" performance problems. If anyone has a "cache" >> of programs to show performance bottlenecks, please email them to me. >> They will be used to improve FreeBSD's performance, and if I don't >> do it, DG, BDE or someone else will work on the code. >> >> There is another layer of improvements that I have been thinking about, but >> those require more involved work, and I want to work on easier stuff right >> now :-). Brain vacation time :-). >> >> I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with >> 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of >> nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of >> days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark >> professionals value the most. >My Web server was up 121 days before a power outage knocked it down, that is >pretty good given that the site record is (I believe) 135 days for a SunOS >4.1 box. >In my opinion my news server isn't as stable. I see about 1-2 week uptimes. >Since I've installed ccd and increased my alt.binaries partition size, I am >no longer running out of disk space on a regular basis and I haven't seen >that pesky "panic: free vnode isn't" message lately. Again, that is not a >guarantee that there's a relationship, but there is an apparent >correlation. Well, our news server (running an older -current kernel) used to fall over on an average of about 3 days. I took a chance and updated it (and several others) to -current as of about 11 Jan. It's not crashed since!! (uptime is about 18 days, a definate record for this machine!) I also turned MMAP support back on in innd, which previously used to make the crash rate worse, and now there's no noticable difference except innd runs faster. It's caught up on it's nntp backlog and is now has the second longest uptime of the site cluster (we had power problems recently too). This kernel was built a few days before John's last round of speedups. Cheers! -Peter >... Joe >------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 02:03:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA07105 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:03:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA07099 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thZNt-0003wdC; Wed, 31 Jan 96 02:03 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA04451; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:23 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:02 +0100." <199601310912.KAA19929@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:22 +0100 Message-ID: <4449.823082602@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Terry Lambert wrote: > > [bad144] > > > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the > > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: > > > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing > > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > Nothing mandates this. > And who but Terry would care about optimizing something like bad144 anyway ??? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 02:52:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA10715 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:52:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA10709 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id CAA00860 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:52:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199601311052.CAA00860@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Are you guys serious about FreeBSD? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 02:52:05 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Also their web server is very popular so if we can convert them to use FreeBSD it will be fantastic! Go For It ! Amancio From: pierce@diamondmm.com (John R Pierce) Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc Subject: switching from linux to freeBSD... Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:21:24 GMT Organization: Diamond Multimedia Systems Lines: 28 Message-ID: <310e97ec.6731745@199.182.102.2> NNTP-Posting-Host: diamond244.diamondmm.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 I'm managing a internet server thats currently running Linux. Its just a DNS/SENDMAIL/INN server, it has 32MB ram, and is a Pentium 90. The system has been SO flakey, I've been thinking of trying FreeBSD instead. hardware: triton based PCI Pentium 90, 32MB ram. Adaptec 2940 with 2 x 1GB and 1 x 3.8GB drives (/, /var, and /usr2/spool for news). 3C509 e-net card. s3 vga, but don't need/want xwindows, its a server. This is a online server for 100's of users (our corporate internet main server), so it can't be offline for very long... it handles 1000's of mail messages a day (like maybe 10,000!)... Its the primary domain name server... its handling a almost full newsfeed (that can go down w/o a big problem). My questions... can linux be 'upgraded' in place to freeBSD? does freeBSD support the ext2 file system from linux w/o reformatting? What caveats and/or gotchas am I, a unix admin newbie, likely to experience? thanks in advance! -jrp ---- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 03:35:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA19220 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU [136.152.64.181]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA19184 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from asami@localhost) by silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU (8.7.3/8.6.9) id DAA07361; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> To: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Reply-to: stable@freebsd.org CC: ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: New version of ccd driver available From: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk (Note crosspost: followups set to `stable') A new version of the ccd driver is now available from: ftp://forgery.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/ccd-960131.tar.gz Attached below is the README file. It now includes mirroring support, so if you have gobs of disk space and need more reliability than straight striping, please try it! Satoshi ------- $Id: ccd.README,v 1.1 1996/01/31 10:39:54 asami Exp $ ********************************************************** * The FreeBSD ccd driver (pre-alpha) * * for 2.1.0-RELEASE users * * by Satoshi Asami * * and Nisha Talagala * * version of 96/01/31 * ********************************************************** (0) Changes from previous version (Jan/14) . There is mirroring support . ccdcontrol is renamed ccdconfig (back to original NetBSD name) . ccdconfig is now in /sbin (so you can call it from rc -- a patch to rc is also included) (1) Introduction This is a port of NetBSD's ccd (concatenated disk) driver. It is not a complete work in any way, but seems to be working fairly ok here, so we decided to make it available so that people can test it and even fix some bugs. :) (2) Warning As the title above says, this is pre-alpha software and is therefore VERY GREEN. You should not expect this to work. It may eat your system disk for lunch. It may even fry your microwave in the process. Make sure you have backed up all your data and locked your children in the basement before you attempt to try this. (3) What it does In case you don't know what it is, ccd is a disk array driver. You can combine several disk partitions into one "virtual disk". Then you can partition it or use the whole thing or add some pepper and salt or whatever you want. (4) What it does not There is no parity support yet. That's why its name doesn't resemble RAID in any form. However, there is mirroring available starting from the Jan/31 version. (4a) Cool, how do I use mirroring? Add CCDF_MIRROR to the list of flags (third field in /etc/ccd.conf), and your disk space will magically shrink into half. The writes go to all disks, while the reads will all come from the first n/2 disks. If one of the disk goes "poof", you can reconfigure the ccd to use only half the disks without mirroring. That should keep your users happy until you get the chance to put in the replacement disk. When the new disk is installed, use the ccd recovery program called `dd' (which mysteriously made its way into the release even before we put out an alpha version of ccd), e.g., to copy sd1g to sd4g, dd if=/dev/sd1g of=/dev/sd4g bs=1048576 (5) How to compile Note this package is for FreeBSD-2.1.0R. It probably won't work right away for -stable or -current. We are planning to upgrade our machines soon, and will release snapshots for -current as well. Ok, first you need to unpack the distribution. It contains the following files: ccd.README (this file) ccd.PLIST ccd.patch sys/ccd/ccd.4 sys/ccd/ccd.c sys/sys/ccdvar.h sbin/ccdconfig/Makefile sbin/ccdconfig/ccdconfig.8 sbin/ccdconfig/ccdconfig.c sbin/ccdconfig/pathnames.h You can unpack them in your /usr/src directory. After that, apply the ccd.patch. It makes several changes to the header files and such, including one totally ridiculous change to sys/disk.h that was done by a certain FreeBSD hacker who owns a hamster with one black eye and one red eye. (Someone please tell me how to fix it properly.) You can use the following command to apply the patch: patch -p < ccd.patch (On a separate line for your triple-clicking pleasure.) There is a patch to rc in there, so take a look at your /etc/rc and install the new one. If you have changed your /etc/rc, either cut & paste the relevant lines or take out the hunk pertaining rc and apply it to your /etc/rc. Then add the following to your kernel configuration file: device ccd0 at isa? device ccd1 at isa? device ccd2 at isa? device ccd3 at isa? (You can have as many of them as you want, or fewer than four, of course.) We recommend you to add "options DDB" too. This will make the kernel go into a debugger in case of a panic. That will make it easier for you to send us a complete bug report. (Note this will disable auto-rebooting after a panic, so don't do this on a machine that has to run unattended.) (6) How to use ccd Wait, you need to compile ccdconfig too! Go in there, do "make depend all install". If install complains about missing directories and such, make sure you have the correct Makefile.inc in the parent (/usr/src/sbin) directory. If you don't have one (like, you don't have the usr.sbin source tree), just editing the ccdconfig Makefile and adding "BINDIR=/sbin" and "NOSHARED=YES" by hand should do. Also, you will need to create the device files. There is a patch to MAKEDEV included in ccd.patch, so go into etc/etc.i386 and install the new MAKEDEV into /dev. Then you can, say, "cd /dev; sh MAKEDEV ccd0" to create the appropriate device files for your first ccd devices, etc. Now, go and read the man pages. ccdconfig.8 should be installed by now; ccd.4 is still sitting in the source directory so go read it there. (Try "nroff -man ccd.4 | less -s".) Assuming you've read them, here is an example, if you have four partitions (sd1g, sd2g, sd3g, sd4g) you want to combine into one: echo "ccd0 16 none /dev/sd1g /dev/sd2g /dev/sd3g /dev/sd4g" > /etc/ccd.conf ccdconfig -Cv (to configure; you'll see a message here) disklabel ccd0 (just to make sure there is a valid disklabel) newfs /dev/rccd0c mount /dev/ccd0c /mnt (play with /mnt) umount /mnt ccdconfig -U (to unconfigure) (7) What's the second field in /etc/ccd.conf? That's the "interleave size". Basically, the ccd driver will write this many sectors (usually 512 bytes) to one disk before it moves to the next disk. As a special case, a zero here means no interleave, i.e., to concatenate disks serially. We have found that in FFS, a value of 16 usually optimizes read performance, while the write peaks with a much larger value (like 512). This probably has to do with cluster_write() thinking it's writing to a single disk when it's actually not. This is one of the things we are planning to fix. (8) Are there any caveats? Oh sure. One of them is "don't use a partition that starts at a beginning of the slice". So please leave some space at the beginning of the slice in the partitions you are combining (sd[1-4]g in the above example). Of course, if someone can figure out why and fix it, that will be great. (9) My disk is totally hosed. It's all your fault! See (2). (10) Anything I can help? Well, any bug fix is welcome. In addition to the stuff mentioned above, we are aware of at least the following: a. Since I didn't know how to properly register a pseudo-device, this baby thinks it's a ISA device (look at kern_devconf and isa_driver and such in ccd.c). It should be specified like "pseudo-device ccd 4" in the kernel configuration file (like the manual says). b. I'm not exactly sure what the "geometry" of this pseudo-disk means. If it doesn't matter, it's ok; if newfs (for instance) cares, we should give it a better set of default values. (11) Where should I send bug reports/fixes? Please send them to ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu. This will reach the two primary developers (Satoshi and Nisha), as well as other interested parties. If you want to be added to this list, please send mail to Satoshi (asami@cs.berkeley.edu). (12) Where do I get new versions? They will be made available as ftp://forgery.cs.berkeley.edu/pub/ccd-.tar.gz so check this site regularly. (13) I'm tired Yeah, I'm tired too. Well go to sleep now then, and try it tomorrow! Good night! Satoshi From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 03:46:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA20269 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:46:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA20262 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:46:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thazF-0003vtC; Wed, 31 Jan 96 03:46 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04565; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:46:04 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "31 Jan 1996 09:23:13 GMT." Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:46:03 +0100 Message-ID: <4563.823088763@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We (the company I work for) use Stallion's sync cards on our SVR4 machines. > It does most the HDLC framing and cooking on-board. In that particular > case, we hacked pppd so that it didn't push the asyhdlc STREAMS module > onto the stack, and fed the hdlc frames _directly_ into the ppp module > with no encoding/decoding required at all. It's really cool when STREAMS > works the way it was intended to. ;-) And that is exactly what it's meant for: async character based io. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 03:50:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA20828 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA20821 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:50:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA14475; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:51:25 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:51:25 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with 2.1-stable unistd.h? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Something is weird around line 53 in unistd.h, with the __dead2 declaration. I was trying to build the new bind, and it barfs on that line, and the line doesn't look good. Commenting it out fixes the compile. I retrieved the file from FreeBSD-stable off ftp.freebsd.org, and it no workee either. stdlib has something similar. So am I just being incredibly dense? Or is something wrong with system? It's doing it on 2 different boxes, including one that's a fresh install/sup. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 03:56:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA21445 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:56:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from proxy.siemens.at (proxy.siemens.at [192.138.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA21259 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:56:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at (zerberus.hai.siemens-austria) by proxy.siemens.at with SMTP id AA27740 (5.67a/IDA-1.5); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:55:08 +0100 Received: from localhost by zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16335; Wed, 31 Jan 96 12:55:07 +0100 Message-Id: <9601311155.AA16335@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> To: Andreas Klemm Cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:55:05 +0100 From: Helmut Wirth Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > The appended patch save under patches-ab. I tried the port gcc-2.7.2-p6, but without the patch you included in this mail. Gcc with -mpentium and -O6 failed to compile a floating point benchmark (LINPACK). I will install your patches-ab and try again. If this fails too, I shall include more information. Helmut Wirth From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 04:21:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA23335 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:21:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA23330 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 04:21:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA24662; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:22:30 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199601311222.HAA24662@hda.com> Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:22:29 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302128.WAA01945@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jan 30, 96 10:28:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm reviving an ol' 486 using two 760Mb ESDI disks connected to an > Emulex MD21 SCSI-ESDI bridge. This setup is connected to an Adaptec > 1542A. > > Apparantly I'm overlooking something because the 2nd disk (LUN1) > is not recognised. Did try to use a 'sd1 at scbus 0 target 0 unit 1' > but that was not enough apparantly. > > What am I missing here? You need SC_MORE_LUS as a knowndev entry in scsiconf.c to encourage the probe code to look for more luns. The default match for a disk says to only look for a single lun. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 05:34:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA27923 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:34:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA27912 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 05:34:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA21691 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:34:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311334.IAA21691@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: intested! In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:21:01 PST." <199601302321.PAA03705@netcom14.netcom.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:34:11 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... > > Is there an e-mail for the elderly? Why? Well, I am 40 8) I'm 42. Going once.... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 06:11:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01357 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:11:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA01350 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20485>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:18:19 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:11:37 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Cc: Andreas Klemm , ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <199601310800.AAA01009@rah.star-gate.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan31.091819est.20485@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Will it be put in an FTP site for those of us that have 2.1R installed and would like to get it and 'help' in testing the system after a total rebuild...????? After all, faster IS better.... Smaller is GREAT. On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > > Has anyone dare to build the stock gcc with this compiler and > then do a make world. I seem to recollect that Rob Mallory > stated that the stock gcc recompiled > with the pentium gcc seems to be smaller and run faster... > > Amancio > > >>> Andreas Klemm said: > > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > > The appended patch save under patches-ab. > > The -mpentium option has to be added as command line option to > > generate pentium code. > > It seems to me, that even -O9 has some effect... > > Try a benchmark (bytebench's dhry2reg) with: > > -s -pipe -static -mpentium -O9 -fomit-frame-pointer > > > > For production code the authors suggest (as sane maximum) -O6. > > See http page: > > http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html > > > > # New ports collection makefile for: pgcc - Pentium gcc > > # Date created: Tue Jan 30 21:15:31 MET 1996 > > # Based on: gcc-2.7.2 > > # Pentium patches: http://www-iss.mach.uni-karlsruhe.de/pcg/source.html > > # Whom: Andreas Klemm > > # > > > > DISTNAME= gcc-2.7.2 > > PKGNAME= gcc-2.7.2p-p6 > > WRKSRC= ${WRKDIR}/${DISTNAME} > > MASTER_SITES= ftp://prep.ai.mit.edu/pub/gnu/ > > CATEGORIES+= lang > > > > MAINTAINER= andreas@knobel.gun.de > > > > #didn't find a ftp site for patches yet, they offer diff via http *sigh* > > #PATCH_SITES= ${MASTER_SITES} > > #PATCHFILES= gcc-2.7.2-2.7.2p-pl6.diff > > > > PATCH_STRIP= -p1 > > > > HAS_CONFIGURE= TRUE > > CONFIGURE_ARGS= --prefix=/usr/local --with-gnu-as --with-gnu-ld pentium > -unknown-freebsd > > > > do-build: > > cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} bootstrap > > > > do-install: > > cd ${WRKSRC} && ${MAKE} install CC="stage2/xgcc -Bstage2/" CFLAGS="-O2" > > > > .include > > > > > > patch-ab: > > *** gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:40 1996 > > *************** > > *** 316,322 **** > > #ifndef VMS > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 316,322 ---- > > #ifndef VMS > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > *** gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/collect2.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:52 1996 > > *************** > > *** 49,55 **** > > #endif > > > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 49,55 ---- > > #endif > > > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > *** gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/cp/g++.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:05 1996 > > *************** > > *** 94,100 **** > > > > extern int sys_nerr; > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 94,100 ---- > > > > extern int sys_nerr; > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > *** gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/cpplib.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:10 1996 > > *************** > > *** 7438,7444 **** > > #ifndef VMS > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 7438,7444 ---- > > #ifndef VMS > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > *** gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/gcc.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:15 1996 > > *************** > > *** 177,183 **** > > > > extern int sys_nerr; > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 177,183 ---- > > > > extern int sys_nerr; > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > *** gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > --- gcc-2.7.2/protoize.c Tue Jan 30 22:45:20 1996 > > *************** > > *** 87,93 **** > > > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > --- 87,93 ---- > > > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > extern int sys_nerr; > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) || defined(__FreeBSD__) > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > #else > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; > > -- > > andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH > > Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - > > \/ > > ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz > > apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 06:20:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA02063 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA01983 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:19:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20490>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:26:28 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:19:45 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org To: Subject: Hackers ages (Re: intested!) In-Reply-To: <199601311334.IAA21691@spooky.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan31.092628est.20490@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk With all the replies to this message(Re: intested!) It makes me wonder how old the average 'hacker' on the FreeBSD project is.... On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Robert Withrow wrote: > > > > > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... > > > > Is there an e-mail for the elderly? Why? Well, I am 40 8) > > I'm 42. Going once.... > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:10:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:10:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from ice.octet.com (ice.octet.com [204.141.97.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA07235 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:10:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by ice.octet.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id KAA06809; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:08:40 GMT Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:08:38 +0000 () From: Charlie ROOT To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: thanks! Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk i just got the new freebsd 1.0.2 release today and want to thank you all for the great work! I cant wait until the 4.4 releases come out in a year or so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:12:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA07466 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:12:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07454 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20485>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:19:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:12:33 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Compaq 16MB limit... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan31.101920est.20485@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Problem: When a Compaq has 64 Meg DRAM in it, BSDI does not see it all. It only see's 16Meg.. The BIOS say's hat there is 64 BUT BSDI says 16.. I have been told that FreeBSD has fixed this somehow... Can somebody please tell me 'approx' which files to look at in the kernel source code to see how it was done ???? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:20:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08237 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08152 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA02179 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:19:28 +0100 Message-Id: <199601311519.QAA02179@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Converting from Linux to FreeBSD To: pierce@diamondmm.com (John R Pierce) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 16:15:24 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311052.CAA00860@rah.star-gate.com>; from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jan 31, 96 2:52 am X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I'm managing a internet server thats currently running Linux. Its > just a DNS/SENDMAIL/INN server, it has 32MB ram, and is a Pentium 90. > The system has been SO flakey, I've been thinking of trying FreeBSD > instead. > > hardware: triton based PCI Pentium 90, 32MB ram. Adaptec 2940 with 2 > x 1GB and 1 x 3.8GB drives (/, /var, and /usr2/spool for news). 3C509 > e-net card. s3 vga, but don't need/want xwindows, its a server. > > This is a online server for 100's of users (our corporate internet > main server), so it can't be offline for very long... it handles > 1000's of mail messages a day (like maybe 10,000!)... Its the primary > domain name server... its handling a almost full newsfeed (that can > go down w/o a big problem). > > My questions... > > can linux be 'upgraded' in place to freeBSD? Probably not. Certainly, in view of the requirement that you don't go down for long, you'd be better off installing FreeBSD on separate disks. That way, if you *do* experience problems, you can fall back to Linux quickly and painlessly. > does freeBSD support the ext2 file system from linux w/o > reformatting? No, sorry. You'll have to convert everything to ufs. > What caveats and/or gotchas am I, a unix admin newbie, likely > to experience? I suppose that depends on the problems you're having now. Bear in mind that not all problems with Linux are Linux's fault. If you're suffering from flaky hardware, expect to swap the symptoms you now know and partially understand with a new set of symptoms you don't understand. I personally believe that FreeBSD handles flaky hardware better than Linux does, but your mileage may vary. In addition, you may find FreeBSD very similar to Linux, but it's not the same. At least the device names and a coupld of programs will be unfamiliar. The extent to which this will worry you depends on your experience--the transition is easier for a newbie than it would be for an experienced hacker. Thirdly, moving such a high-profile application from one operating system to another in a hurry is asking for trouble. I would suggest that you get hold of a smaller loaner machine and install FreeBSD on that, and then start to migrate the services to it--say, the name server first. That way you'll get a good feeling for FreeBSD before you burn your bridges behind you. Maybe the next application could be the news feed, followed somewhat later by mail. I suspect your Linux box will work better with less load, so the relief should start to be apparent before you complete the transition. Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to plug my forthcoming book, "Installing FreeBSD". This is in the final review stage. Possibly you would like to review it--please contact me offline if you're interested. Greg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Lehey LEMIS grog@lemis.de Schellnhausen 2 Tel: +49-6637-919123 36325 Feldatal Fax: +49-6637-919122 Germany From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:21:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA08313 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:21:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.152.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08286 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:21:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02803; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:20:34 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:20:34 -0500 (EST) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Paul Traina cc: Paul LaFollette , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-Reply-To: <199601310731.XAA01061@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Grrr... too bad you didn't write this about 4 hours ago. I'm about 70% > done with a linux-compatible quick-cam driver too. :-) Yikes! Did you follow all of the changes that were discussed on linux-connectix@blah.blah.blah-- T. Davis (the guy who wrote the Linux driver) and I were have some discussion on that list about a better standard API between the Linux and FreeBSD driver. He is releasing a new kernel driver for linux on Sunday, that should reflect the changes we discussed. Oh, BTW: My driver is over 50% done, but I'm waiting for my QuickCam to come back- it broke :( > Bummer, I was hoping we'd see a significant speedup with the move out of > user mode, but direct I/O is direct I/O. I've coded up support for mmaping > memory directly into the buffer, but polling that lpt port is still the > bottleneck. The driver transfers very little data and spends little time transfering data to the user program like the current Linux driver does (relative to the time it takes to do the direct I/O)-- mmaping shouldn't really be neccesary IMHO. Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:31:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA09021 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:31:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from jhome.DIALix.COM (root@jhome.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.69]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA08998 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:31:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.DIALix.oz.au (peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1]) by jhome.DIALix.COM (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09606; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:31:02 +0800 (WST) Message-Id: <199601311531.XAA09606@jhome.DIALix.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: jhome.DIALix.COM: Host peter@localhost.DIALix.oz.au [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:46:03 +0100." <4563.823088763@critter.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:30:57 +0800 From: Peter Wemm Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> We (the company I work for) use Stallion's sync cards on our SVR4 machines. >> It does most the HDLC framing and cooking on-board. In that particular >> case, we hacked pppd so that it didn't push the asyhdlc STREAMS module >> onto the stack, and fed the hdlc frames _directly_ into the ppp module >> with no encoding/decoding required at all. It's really cool when STREAMS >> works the way it was intended to. ;-) > >And that is exactly what it's meant for: async character based io. Well, not necessarily.. :-) In this case, it all fell into place because of the modularity. There was no async character based io at all - I was mentioning the Sync cards. The ppp protocol stack is particularly well suited to a layered approach.. ie: ppp is layered over hdlc, and for async IO there is a module to convert character IO to hdlc. The problem with streams is that it's doing huge amounts of queueing and dequeueing at every layer, killing performance. In contrast, the monolithic BSD networking "protocol engine" generally queues things once each way. One of the Linux ISDN projects built a simple streams implementation for this purpose. They had a streams "interface" that was wired to their tcp/ip implementation. They pushed/popped modules on top of their ISDN card drivers to implement the ISDN protocol layers, eventually arriving at a HDLC frame interface. They used ppp as a streams module on top of all that and linked it under the "interface". By doing this, they ended up with a modular implementation that coped fairly nicely with the difference hardware that had different amounts of "intelligence". Right from dumb boards that give you the raw bit stream, through to boards that implement some of the higher layers in hardware/firmware. I dont recall where the source for this was though... I looked at this a year or two ago. With the radically differing amount of hardware support in the ISDN offerings, this seems like a sane way to do it, at least for slower speed stuff (ie: 64K/128K). Cheers, -Peter From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:33:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA09229 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:33:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA09124 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:32:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA17716; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:21 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311532.KAA17716@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Paul Traina "Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver" (Jan 30, 11:31pm) from: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Paul Traina Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Jan 30, 11:31pm, Paul Traina wrote: } Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver } } From: Paul LaFollette } Subject: Any interest in Quickcam Driver } I managed to fall off of the hackers list a while back, so I don't know } how much activity there already may be in the Connectix Quickcam, but } I finally have a driver working which I would be more than happy to } share if there is interest and no one else has already done a better job. } } Grrr... too bad you didn't write this about 4 hours ago. I'm about 70% } done with a linux-compatible quick-cam driver too. :-) } } I have received no information from the company, signed no non-disclosure } documents, and have based this entirely on information I have gleaned } from the net and my own experimentation. } } It works tolerably well, appears to be stable, and supports all of the } features of the camera that I know of except the bidirectional port (which } I am currently working on.) } } I am getting frame reates of around 20/sec in 80 x 60 mode and about 3 } or 4/sec in 320 x 240. } } Bummer, I was hoping we'd see a significant speedup with the move out of } user mode, but direct I/O is direct I/O. I've coded up support for mmaping } memory directly into the buffer, but polling that lpt port is still the } bottleneck. } } If you are intersted, I would be happy to tar it up along with a } demo program and a little documentation and stick it in /pub/incoming } somewhere (only please tell me where.) Wanted to check first though } that someone hasn't already done it and that y'all aren't concerned about } the fact that the Quickcam folks don't seem to be enthusiastic about } details of their product being known. (All the more reason to make them know } as far as I am concerned, but that is just me.) } } I rather hope you are interested. A couple years ago you traded me a } major device number in return for the ctx driver. It's a nice integer and } I use it often, but it is starting to get a little shabby and I was hoping } to maybe pick up a second one. :) } } Guess who's driver and major number I ripped off as a starting point. :-) }-- End of excerpt from Paul Traina Not to belittle the effort that Paul LaFollette went to to do his port, I think it would be more benifitial to wait and use the driver Paul Traina is working on. This way any and all work on Quickcam applications can be cross developed on FreeBSD and Linux. -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 07:53:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA10429 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from freebsd.netcom.com (freebsd.netcom.com [198.211.79.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA10423 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 07:53:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by freebsd.netcom.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id JAA20068; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:56:46 -0600 From: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) Message-Id: <199601311556.JAA20068@freebsd.netcom.com> Subject: re: Hackers ages To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:56:45 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > From: Jerry Kendall > With all the replies to this message(Re: intested!) > It makes me wonder how old the average 'hacker' on the > FreeBSD project is.... Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other OS. Regards, Mark Hittinger Netcom/Dallas bugs@freebsd.netcom.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:03:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA11533 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11517 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:03:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16743; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:01:32 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:01:32 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311601.LAA16743@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > If you have a source for the $35 variant, I'd love to see it. The only >> > reference I managed to track down was for a $400 product, which unsurprisingly >> > failed to enthuse me. Currently I install 8-port relay boards in a >> > nominated 'stable' system, and run lines from the motherboard reset pins >> > to the relays. Crude, but _very_ effective. (Until someone runs the >> > 'cylon' program I use to test the cards 8) >> >> One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. > >Emerging Technologies has a pricey but (apparently) flexible watchdog card, >as I recall it was around $200. This is $169......its on our ET/5025 sync board at no addtional cost if you happen to need one of those. There is a driver for FreeBSD and a development kit with a sample app if you want to incorporate it into an appliction or script. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:05:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA11888 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:05:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA11853 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:05:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16182(5)>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:05:01 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA14002; Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:04:57 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03850; Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:04:55 EST Message-Id: <9601311604.AA03850@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd@hopf.math.purdue.edu (Clarence W. Wilkerson), hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 01:13:17 PST." <199601300917.KAA09302@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:04:53 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I personally like using loadlin... On another system, I used loadlin and fbsdboot successfully (I select what I wanted in config.sys, I talked out this in the January Linux Journal). On another machine: loadlin works selecting active paritions with fdisk works fbsdboot and booteasy doesn't work Ya got me... If you boot from DOS, 1024 cylinder's isn't a problem (if the kernel is on a dos filesystem). -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:09:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12143 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12128 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16772; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:08:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:08:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311608.LAA16772@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Smith From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Joe Greco stands accused of saying: >> >> Actually, besides this being very ugly, I was referring to building >> production models, not prototypes... I need about six. :-) Since I don't >> have the facilities here to do any sort of PC boards, that leaves me with >> the ugly option of using PC prototyping cards (or other "build-n-go" >> solutions). All of which are expensive. > >I can do PCBs. The real problem being that even if I sell one to >everyone here, I still won't be competing pricewise with a large >manufacturer. At a guess, I'd say that a bare board (no parts) would >come to ~$30 if I were to do 10 or more. (This is assuming that there >was very little actually on the board). If this is desirable and nobody's >got anything more attractive, I guess I can come up with something. > >Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). >(My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). > >> Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Ours are $139 Q5....figure out the cost recovery and you'd have to need a hundred to break even......I dont even market them 'cause theres no margin at that price. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:09:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12172 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12157 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA09520 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:08:40 -0800 Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id RAA10351; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:17 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199601311605.RAA10351@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: proposed patch to netinet/tcp_input.c To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I would like you to evaluate, and possibly apply, the enclosed patch to netinet/tcp_input.c MOTIVATION: RFC1323 and following updates (see Stevens, TCP/IP Illustrated vol.2 pg.868-870, and the code in netinet/tcp_input.c) state that: 1. only segments which cause the receive window to advance can be considered to carry valid timestamps, and possibly cause ts_recent to be updated; 2. timestamp echo replies in duplicate acks are not used to update RTT estimates (which means that they are completely unused, this being their only purpose). The code in 2.1R (and possibly 2.2-current, as far as I know) implements the above behaviour. As a result, the timestamp echo reply field in duplicate ACKs is completely unused. My proposal is to make this field carry useful information, in the form of the timestamp of the most recently received segment, if this is newer than ts_recent. This can be used by the sender as a form of selective acknowledgement, for which I have some code which I am already running. As far as I can tell there are no other side effects because of #2 above. I am currently running a kernel with the following patch applied and it seems to behave as usual. IMPLEMENTATION: How to implement this: it cannot be done by simply updating ts_recent in the tcp control block because ts_recent is also used to determine if a segment is too old. The following patch should do what is needed -- set and restore the value of ts_recent around calls to tcp_output(). I know that the code is duplicated, but tcp_input() is such a messy piece of code that I did not find a more decent way -- at least at this stage. Besides, given the existence of a book which documents it in much detail, a cleanup of the code is not a good idea. Proposed patch follows: diff -cbwr netinet.orig/tcp_input.c netinet/tcp_input.c *** netinet.orig/tcp_input.c Wed Aug 23 16:52:06 1995 --- netinet/tcp_input.c Wed Jan 31 16:12:38 1996 *************** *** 1595,1601 **** --- 1672,1686 ---- * Return any desired output. */ if (needoutput || (tp->t_flags & TF_ACKNOW)) + { + u_long old_ts_recent=tp->ts_recent; + if ((to.to_flag & TOF_TS) && + TSTMP_LT(tp->ts_recent, to.to_tsval)) + tp->ts_recent=to.to_tsval; (void) tcp_output(tp); + tp->ts_recent=old_ts_recent; + + } return; dropafterack: *************** *** 1611,1617 **** --- 1700,1714 ---- #endif m_freem(m); tp->t_flags |= TF_ACKNOW; + { + u_long old_ts_recent=tp->ts_recent; + if ((to.to_flag & TOF_TS) && + TSTMP_LT(tp->ts_recent, to.to_tsval)) + tp->ts_recent=to.to_tsval; (void) tcp_output(tp); + tp->ts_recent=old_ts_recent; + + } return; dropwithreset: ---------------- Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:09:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA12197 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from zap.io.org (zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA12192 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zap.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01857; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:09:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:09:25 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: FREEBSD-HACKERS-L cc: davidg@Root.COM Subject: rlogind causes page fault while in kernel mode Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This may be related to the rlogind bug I mentioned before (where an rlogin to a FreeBSD box will hang for a minute or so, then return with a "Connection refused"). One of our shell servers had a kernel panic today. I've included the relevant information below. Any help in tracking this one down (and the larger rlogin problem) would be greatly appreciated. ==> dmesg output <== Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xd4f580a2 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010639d code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 27777 (rlogind) interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault syncing disks... 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 21 giving up Fatal trap 12: page fault while in kernel mode fault virtual address = 0xd4f580a2 fault code = supervisor read, page not present instruction pointer = 0x8:0xf010639d code segment = base 0x0, limit 0xfffff, type 0x1b = DPL 0, pres 1, def32 1, gran 1 processor eflags = interrupt enabled, resume, IOPL = 0 current process = 27777 (rlogind) interrupt mask = net tty bio panic: page fault Automatic reboot in 15 seconds - press a key on the console to abort Rebooting... FreeBSD 2.1.0-RELEASE #0: Sat Dec 30 14:19:27 EST 1995 taob@flinch.io.org:/src/2.1.0-RELEASE/sys/compile/ZIP CPU: 133-MHz Pentium 735\\90 or 815\\100 (Pentium-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x52b Stepping=11 Features=0x1bf real memory = 134217728 (131072K bytes) avail memory = 130035712 (126988K bytes) Probing for devices on the ISA bus: vt0 at 0x60-0x6f irq 1 on motherboard vt0: unknown trident, 80 col, color, 8 scr, mf2-kbd, [R3.20-b24] sio0 at 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 on isa sio0: type 16550A sio1 at 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa sio1: type 16550A fdc0 at 0x3f0-0x3f7 irq 6 drq 2 on isa fdc0: NEC 72065B fd0: 1.44MB 3.5in npx0 on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface Probing for devices on the PCI bus: chip0 rev 2 on pci0:0 chip1 rev 2 on pci0:7 ncr0 rev 2 int a irq 11 on pci0:10 ncr0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (ncr0:0:0): "QUANTUM FIREBALL1080S 1Q09" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(ncr0:0:0): Direct-Access sd0(ncr0:0:0): FAST SCSI-2 100ns (10 Mb/sec) offset 8. 1042MB (2134305 512 byte sectors) sd0(ncr0:0:0): with 3835 cyls, 4 heads, and an average 139 sectors/track de0 rev 18 int a irq 14 on pci0:11 de0: DC21140 [10-100Mb/s] pass 1.2 Ethernet address 00:00:c0:84:46:c8 de0: enabling 10baseT UTP port vga0 rev 227 int a irq ?? on pci0:12 WARNING: / was not properly dismounted. ==> nm /kernel | sort <== [...] f0105df0 F kern_malloc.o f01060b0 T _malloc f0106448 T _free f010658c T _kmeminit [...] ==> /sys/i386/conf/ZIP <== machine "i386" cpu "I586_CPU" ident CABAL maxusers 128 options INET options FFS options NFS options MSDOSFS options PROCFS options QUOTA options "COMPAT_43" options "SCSI_DELAY=5" options SCSIDEBUG options SCSI_REPORT_GEOMETRY options UCONSOLE options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG options PROBE_VERBOSE options "NMBCLUSTERS=4096" options "MAXMEM=131072" config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 controller ncr0 controller scbus0 device sd0 device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device de0 pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device pty 256 pseudo-device bpfilter 4 -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:19:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA13030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:19:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA13025 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:19:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thfFs-0003wZC; Wed, 31 Jan 96 08:19 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA04922; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:19:30 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:56:45 CST." <199601311556.JAA20068@freebsd.netcom.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:19:29 +0100 Message-ID: <4920.823105169@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > From: Jerry Kendall > > With all the replies to this message(Re: intested!) > > It makes me wonder how old the average 'hacker' on the > > FreeBSD project is.... > > Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting > to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other > OS. I guess I barely make it into the "adults only" section here, I have less than 2 weeks experience in being a "Thirty-something" :-) Judging from the people I have met, it seems like FreeBSD is composed of a large fraction of "grown-up" hackers, and that could easily explain the uncommonly strong focus we have on stability and performance. The funny thing is that most of us were more interested in ice-cream and soda-pop when UNIX was started... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:37:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA14885 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:37:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA14880 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA07017; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:34:50 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311634.KAA07017@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:34:50 -0600 (CST) Cc: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601310726.RAA18000@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 31, 96 05:56:54 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk stands accused of saying: > > > > > I was thinking about tackling the problem myself by putting an 8751-class > > > microcontroller on a PC card and writing a quick'n'stupid bit of timer code > > > > Why not hang it off the parallel port? > > No reset line on the port 8) That IS something I had considered. Most of my machines sport a parallel port; all of them are of the variety where you connect a dual-row IDC connector and some ribbon cable with a DB25 on the end up to it (as opposed to being directly soldered to the back of the board). This means I _could_ design a daughtercard inside the machine that connected to the parallel port, the reset switch, and maybe fd power. It would be adequate. I'm just trolling to see if somebody has a solution I don't have to work so hard at :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:40:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15141 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:40:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15132 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16425(8)>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:35:17 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177479>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:35:15 -0800 To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: connectix quickcam In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 96 17:27:00 PST." <23647.823051620@time.cdrom.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:35:11 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Jan31.083515pst.177479@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <23647.823051620@time.cdrom.com> you write: >Really? All I can see is: > Koji OKAMURA's grabber-gcam.cc for vic using libqcam.a. > >And that actually points to a vicbin for linux! (?!) I only said there was a link there, I didn't say that it pointed to what I was using =) I just stole my vic binary from someone; I will ask them about redistribution. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:44:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15344 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:44:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15337 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:44:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA16869; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:43:34 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:43:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311643.LAA16869@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: pierce@diamondmm.com From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Are you guys serious about FreeBSD? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Also their web server is very popular so if we can convert them to >use FreeBSD it will be fantastic! > > Go For It ! > Amancio > >From: pierce@diamondmm.com (John R Pierce) >Newsgroups: comp.unix.bsd.freebsd.misc >Subject: switching from linux to freeBSD... >Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 22:21:24 GMT >Organization: Diamond Multimedia Systems >Lines: 28 >Message-ID: <310e97ec.6731745@199.182.102.2> >NNTP-Posting-Host: diamond244.diamondmm.com >X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99c/16.141 > >I'm managing a internet server thats currently running Linux. Its >just a DNS/SENDMAIL/INN server, it has 32MB ram, and is a Pentium 90. >The system has been SO flakey, I've been thinking of trying FreeBSD >instead. > >hardware: triton based PCI Pentium 90, 32MB ram. Adaptec 2940 with 2 >x 1GB and 1 x 3.8GB drives (/, /var, and /usr2/spool for news). 3C509 >e-net card. s3 vga, but don't need/want xwindows, its a server. > >This is a online server for 100's of users (our corporate internet >main server), so it can't be offline for very long... it handles >1000's of mail messages a day (like maybe 10,000!)... Its the primary >domain name server... its handling a almost full newsfeed (that can >go down w/o a big problem). Take a look at www.etinc.com/server.htm. Its very close to your system, although we have dual PCI ethernet cards. Solid as a rock. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:51:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15742 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:51:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA15731 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:51:04 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA07063; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:49:31 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311649.KAA07063@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: winter@jurai.net (Matthew N. Dodd) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:49:30 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Matthew N. Dodd" at Jan 31, 96 01:03:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, mailing list account wrote: > > now here is a cost cutting idea: does anyone know how well freebsd stacks > > against say a cisco 2500 series router? cisco 4000? cisco 4500? say using > > a p5-100? p5-166? > > >From what I have seen gated will do just about anything a cisco will (IP > that is). However, the cisco boxes have high speed route processors and > other things that the PC can't compete with. > > I am going to be getting a FreeBSD ethernet router box together using a few > multiport de21x4x based cards. The ipfw stuff should make for a good > firewall/filter box. :) Yes, the PC probably can't compete with the Cisco's routing-optimized architecture. I'm not sure if that just means that latency is higher or if it actually affects throughput, however. Anybody? :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:52:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA15981 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:52:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from spot.lodgenet.com (lodgenet.iw.net [204.157.148.88]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15961 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from jake.lodgenet.com (jake.lodgenet.com [204.124.120.30]) by spot.lodgenet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id KAA18846; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:53:09 -0600 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jake.lodgenet.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA24433; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:51 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601311703.LAA24433@jake.lodgenet.com> X-Authentication-Warning: jake.lodgenet.com: Host localhost [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.2 7/18/95 To: stable@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 03:34:52 PST." <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:51 -0600 From: "Eric L. Hernes" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Satoshi, this is way cool. > > a. Since I didn't know how to properly register a pseudo-device, this > baby thinks it's a ISA device (look at kern_devconf and isa_driver > and such in ccd.c). It should be specified like "pseudo-device > ccd 4" in the kernel configuration file (like the manual says). > I believe that you must have something like: #include PSEUDO_SET(ccdattach, ccd); in the source. then of course remove the isa_* structures and probably ccdprobe(). I think you can remove the `device-driver' clause from sys/conf/files too. It uses a linker-set to attach the pseudo devices even before the isa/pci/eisa bus stuff. At least thats what if_tun, if_ppp, ... appear to do. all of this is from memory, so your mileage may vary. This probably isn't too high priority for you now but hope it helps. > > Satoshi > eric. -- erich@lodgenet.com erich@rrnet.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:58:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16277 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:58:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from srv1.thuntek.net (root@[206.206.98.20]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA16271 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from scott.cr.usgs.gov (aslpca.cr.usgs.gov [136.177.121.30]) by srv1.thuntek.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA12541 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:59:59 -0700 Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960131170652.0114d7a0@thuntek.net> X-Sender: thor@thuntek.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:06:52 -0700 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Scott Halbert Subject: NE2000 Boot ROMs Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk What's the deal with setting up a NE2000 for a FreeBSD netboot PROM? Is there some special options that need to be set in the Makefile or wierd jumpers to set on the card? I've gotten this to work fine on a 3C509. I've burned several proms of different sizes. The rom code is about 13k so it won't fit on a 8k prom. My last attempts were to a 27c256 32k prom. I set the ROMSIZE in the makefile to 32768. Most of my NE2000 cards are configured with a floppy--no jumpers. Some cards permit the romsizem to be set, some do not. I have tried it with different rom base addresses. Mostly D000. The IO base in the makefile matches what is set for the card. It never seems to run the code in the prom at all. It just asks me for a boot floppy as if it never saw the prom. Here is the beginning of the makefile for ns8390.rom: PROG= nb8390.com nb3c509.com nb8390.rom nb3c509.rom # Order is very important on the SRCS line for this prog SRCS= start2.S main.c misc.c bootmenu.c rpc.c BINDIR= /usr/mdec BINMODE= 555 CFLAGS= -O2 -DNFS -DROMSIZE=${ROMSIZE} -DRELOC=${RELOCADDR} NS8390= -DINCLUDE_NE -DNE_BASE=0x280 CLEANFILES+= netboot.com CLEANFILES+= makerom start2.ro 3c509.o ns8390.o LDFLAGS+= -N -T ${RELOCADDR} -e _start -nostdlib NOSHARED= YES NOMAN= STRIP= ROMSIZE=32768 RELOCADDR=0x90000 Thanks... ---Scott Halbert Thunder Network Technologies From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:59:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16338 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16326 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA09410 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:59:11 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199601311659.KAA09410@mpp.minn.net> Subject: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac doc-common doc-syms To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:59:11 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > mpp 96/01/31 08:34:54 > > Modified: gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac doc-common doc-syms > Log: > Teach the .Os macro about FreeBSD and our releases. E.g. > > .Os FreeBSD 2.1 > > will now display "FreeBSD 2.1" at the bottom of the man page, > instead of just "FreeBSD". > > Added a bunch of missing standards to the .St macro. > > 4.4BSD is no longer "BSD Experimental". There are a few things I wanted to discuss about this stuff before doing anything else... There are still a lot of man pages that will come up as "BSD Experimental". That is how the ".Os" macro works if it is used without any arguments. Unfortunately, this includes a LOT of BSD commands (echo, ls, mv, mkdir, etc). There are also a number of 3rd party packages that are the same way. Should I just remove the word "Experimental", so that any man page that doesn't specify the operating system will come up as "BSD"? We can fix any 3rd party packages as we notice them. Next, Should FreeBSD 2.2 be listed as "FreeBSD 2.2 Experimental" or "FreeBSD 2.2 Development" or some such? I didn't do that with the above changes because I didn't want someone to forget to change it when it comes time to cut the 2.2 CD-ROM. -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 08:59:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA16392 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA16385 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA07089; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:57:02 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311657.KAA07089@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: lists@argus.flash.net (mailing list account) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:57:01 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601310055.SAA01710@argus.flash.net> from "mailing list account" at Jan 30, 96 06:55:23 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > not exactly, what is the overhead involved in polling activity on the boca > cards compared with a livingston... livingston wins on performance. I'm still waiting for somebody to cough up numbers to support this position. I can safely say that I have NOT seen performance problems with my FreeBSD terminal servers, and as far as I am concerned, that is what counts in the end. > there are other advantages to using a dedicated terminal server such as > Livingston offers, but i leave that as an excercise for the reader :^) And disadvantages, as well. See my past rants .. ;-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:06:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16931 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:06:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16926 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:06:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id SAA14795; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:05:10 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601311705.SAA14795@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:05:09 +0100 (MET) Cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601301817.SAA04423@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Jan 30, 96 06:17:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Wearing Birckenstocks you mean? > > > I am showing my ignorance, but what are Birckenstocks??? :-). The old hacker shoes ;-) Look at the berkeley daemon at the `free the 4.4bsd'. They are open wooden shoes (no cloggies). Here in Hgolland often worn by nurses. -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:07:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA16972 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16965 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id SAA14804; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:05:54 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601311705.SAA14804@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: Re: intested! To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:05:53 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org, toor@dyson.iquest.net In-Reply-To: <199601302321.PAA03705@netcom14.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at Jan 30, 96 03:21:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Amancio Hasty Jr wrote: > > > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... > > Is there an e-mail for the elderly? Why? Well, I am 40 8) Really?? The Jr. certainly misled me ;-) -Guido From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:18:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA17834 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:18:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17827 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:18:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from didier@localhost) by zapata.omnix.fr.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA09306; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:05:26 +0100 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:05:25 +0100 (MET) From: didier@omnix.fr.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: serial ports on shared irq Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hi is it possible to use serveral serial port on the same irq (4 port board) thanks -- Didier Derny | My computer is Microsoft Free and Bug Free didier@aida.org | I'm running FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:18:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA17869 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17860 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA07156; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:17:10 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311717.LAA07156@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:17:10 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311601.LAA16743@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 31, 96 11:01:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. > > > >Emerging Technologies has a pricey but (apparently) flexible watchdog card, > >as I recall it was around $200. > > This is $169......its on our ET/5025 sync board at no addtional cost if you > happen to need > one of those. There is a driver for FreeBSD and a development kit with a sample > app if you want to incorporate it into an appliction or script. > > dennis Sorry, when you first announced it, it was $195 qty 1. This is still really a little more than I'd like to pay. I realize it costs you to build these things and I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just saying that it is not worth that much to me. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:39:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19597 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA19591 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:39:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA16999; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:37:20 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:37:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311737.MAA16999@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. >> > >> >Emerging Technologies has a pricey but (apparently) flexible watchdog card, >> >as I recall it was around $200. >> >> This is $169......its on our ET/5025 sync board at no addtional cost if you >> happen to need >> one of those. There is a driver for FreeBSD and a development kit with a sample >> app if you want to incorporate it into an appliction or script. >> >> dennis > >Sorry, when you first announced it, it was $195 qty 1. > >This is still really a little more than I'd like to pay. I realize it costs >you to build these things and I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just saying >that it is not worth that much to me. Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i find it interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about it then you'll save! db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:40:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19824 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:40:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19808 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:40:29 -0800 (PST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" Message-Id: <199601311740.JAA19808@freefall.freebsd.org> Subject: Re: intested! To: hasty@netcom.com (Amancio Hasty Jr) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:40:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302321.PAA03705@netcom14.netcom.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr" at Jan 30, 96 03:21:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... > > Is there an e-mail for the elderly? Why? Well, I am 40 8) > guess that i ned to start a geritol mailing list for those over 40. being 37 myself, i wont be able to join. seems that FreeBSD is the mature operating system for mature individuals. while we are in this fit of self revalation how about some demographics? (boredom alert) Jonathan M. Bresler, born 11/22/58, married 12/27/80, 4 children, aged 12, 10, 7, 2 1/2. girl, girl, boy, girl. graduated Univ of Chicago 1980 (Pol Sci), Univ of Maryland 1990 EE. FreeBSD on 2 486dx66's, 1 mac si ii, 1 dec pro350 (venix! LSI-11 box) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:41:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA19956 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:41:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA19950 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:41:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA07197; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:58 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311739.LAA07197@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601310226.MAA16885@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 31, 96 12:56:42 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > Actually, besides this being very ugly, I was referring to building > > production models, not prototypes... I need about six. :-) Since I don't > > have the facilities here to do any sort of PC boards, that leaves me with > > the ugly option of using PC prototyping cards (or other "build-n-go" > > solutions). All of which are expensive. > > I can do PCBs. The real problem being that even if I sell one to > everyone here, I still won't be competing pricewise with a large > manufacturer. I'm not sure anyone cares... I for one understand the economy of scale, which is why I'm not toasting Dennis into the floor over his $169 board. > At a guess, I'd say that a bare board (no parts) would > come to ~$30 if I were to do 10 or more. (This is assuming that there > was very little actually on the board). If this is desirable and nobody's > got anything more attractive, I guess I can come up with something. > > Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). > (My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). Hmm. This goes along with one of my other "wish list" items that I've been meaning to work on "someday"... a built-in POST code decoder. Now before you write me off as crazy, let me explain further... I don't know how many of us had seen IBM's PC-RT from the late '80's, but one nice feature it had was a POST code display on the front panel. Useful for debugging. However, once AOS (IBM's 4.3BSD UNIX) was up and running, something cute happened: UNIX started putting out the current load average on the POST display. This tended to give a really warm fuzzy about what was happening (or not happening) on the box, and when you have a machine room with a dozen systems racked and stacked it would be nice to have it. A POST code reader was described a few years back in one of the computer/electronics rags, and I still have a copy of it. Basically a GAL(?) or two tossed on a PC card. Just another nice feature missing from your average PC. Wanna build an "all-in-one" card? :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:42:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20052 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:42:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20045 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:42:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id SAA07890 ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:42:39 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id SAA00230 ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:42:38 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id IAA14787; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:42:42 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199601310742.IAA14787@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 08:42:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: jerry@border.com, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601302052.MAA28243@freefall.freebsd.org> from "John Dyson" at "Jan 30, 96 12:52:03 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that John Dyson said: > > Also must agree with Guido, I am 32 years YOUNG..... Sorry, I'm only 28 (well, almost 29). > I was being absurd, kind-of tounge in cheek making fun of the age > of certain competition of ours.... I am an old-fart of 39... Very > set in my ways... Those of you who are reading certain newsgroups > will know what I mean :-). Like gnu.misc.discuss ? :-) -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:45:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20433 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20424 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20485>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:52:16 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:45:17 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: Mark Hittinger , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <4920.823105169@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan31.125216est.20485@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > I guess I barely make it into the "adults only" section here, I have > less than 2 weeks experience in being a "Thirty-something" :-) > > Judging from the people I have met, it seems like FreeBSD is composed > of a large fraction of "grown-up" hackers, and that could easily explain > the uncommonly strong focus we have on stability and performance. > > The funny thing is that most of us were more interested in ice-cream > and soda-pop when UNIX was started... > soda-pop AKA: fast and efficient ice-cream AKA: small and lean butterscotch topping AKA: reliable and rock solid Therefore, soda-pop and ice-cream with butterscotch topping is what we all want. Still!!!! Ah, it IS nice to be young "grown-up" and a hacker too. FreeBSD, well that just makes it all worth while. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:48:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA20772 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:48:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20730 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA19097; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:48:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:48:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311748.MAA19097@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Willows Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Any word on a port to freebsd of willows TWIN XPDK for UNIX? I would *very* much like to try it out and the word was that there was going to be a port (presumably be willows). -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 09:57:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA21752 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:57:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA21727 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:57:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA07224; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:56:07 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601311756.LAA07224@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:56:06 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311737.MAA16999@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 31, 96 12:37:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Sorry, when you first announced it, it was $195 qty 1. > > > >This is still really a little more than I'd like to pay. I realize it costs > >you to build these things and I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just saying > >that it is not worth that much to me. > > Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i > find it > interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if > they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about > it then you'll save! At $169, to purchase a dozen would cost me $2028. Unlike you, I am not operating a revenue-generating organization, and $2028 is an appreciable chunk of one of my paychecks, which is ultimately where the money would come from. I feel warm and fuzzy when I buy an SMC network card for $90. I don't feel too bad investing $150 in an IDE hard disk. I get close to euphoric when I spend $70 on an NCR 810 SCSI controller, that has got to be one of the best steals around. These are all key components for things I do, and I consider the dollars very well spent. On the other hand, I get a real sick feeling when I put out good money for things that I think are not worth what I am paying. I can think about a problem all day long and all night long and it doesn't cost me anything. And if I can build it for less, it may just be worth doing. My time is valuable, sure, but the dollars are a much more valuable commodity. I can build a very cheap sync serial router using one of your ET cards and a FreeBSD box. THAT is VALUE! I can build very cheap ethernet routers out of no more than a bunch of NE-2000's and a FreeBSD box. Also value! I can get NE-2000 cards for ~$25, and if I dump 6 in a box that costs me $150. If the watchdog reset board costs me more than the sum of the other cards, I get a bad feeling. As I said, I know you're not getting rich off of these cards. It's just that I don't have the luxury of spending that much money on a solution that can be done more inexpensively. Even if it's writing some network watchdog code and hooking up a decoder to the parallel port on one "guardian" box (total cost ~=$25 and you can cover a LOT of boxes), there are cheaper solutions. Now, given a nifty keen solution, like the combination watchdog/POST reader suggested in my last mail, I might certainly be convinced to invest a little more in the solution... but it's still not worth $169/unit to me. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:16:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA23824 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23816 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:16:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06818; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:14:34 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601311814.KAA06818@precipice.shockwave.com> To: Sujal Patel cc: Paul LaFollette , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:20:34 EST." Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:14:33 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: Sujal Patel Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Grrr... too bad you didn't write this about 4 hours ago. I'm about 70% > done with a linux-compatible quick-cam driver too. :-) Yikes! Did you follow all of the changes that were discussed on linux-connectix@blah.blah.blah-- T. Davis (the guy who wrote the Linux driver) and I were have some discussion on that list about a better standard API between the Linux and FreeBSD driver. He is releasing a new kernel driver for linux on Sunday, that should reflect the changes we discussed. No, I hadn't gotten around to joining yet. _sigh_ :-) Oh, BTW: My driver is over 50% done, but I'm waiting for my QuickCam to come back- it broke :( > Bummer, I was hoping we'd see a significant speedup with the move out of > user mode, but direct I/O is direct I/O. I've coded up support for mmaping > memory directly into the buffer, but polling that lpt port is still the > bottleneck. The driver transfers very little data and spends little time transfering data to the user program like the current Linux driver does (relative to the time it takes to do the direct I/O)-- mmaping shouldn't really be neccesary IMHO. Yeah, I think you're right. I was just trying to for that extra burn, but the ioctl() syscall overhead (to start the next scan) is as bad as the read. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:18:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24050 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:18:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from precipice.shockwave.com (precipice.shockwave.com [171.69.108.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24042 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:18:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.shockwave.com (localhost.shockwave.com [127.0.0.1]) by precipice.shockwave.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06853; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601311817.KAA06853@precipice.shockwave.com> To: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:21 EST." <199601311532.KAA17716@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:04 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk From: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver On Jan 30, 11:31pm, Paul Traina wrote: Not to belittle the effort that Paul LaFollette went to to do his port, I think it would be more benifitial to wait and use the driver Paul Traina is working on. This way any and all work on Quickcam applications can be cross developed on FreeBSD and Linux. No, that's silly... we should really just grab the best _technical_ driver from all camps and insure that we all conform to the same driver API. I have no idea how compatible mine is with the next-generation Linux driver that is in the works...hell, I didn't even know there _was_ a next generation linux driver API in the works until 5 minutes ago. Don't worry, by the time all of us get our code out the door, I'm sure there will be a TON of cross-polination. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:20:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24452 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24444 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:20:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10140; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:17:49 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311817.LAA10140@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: NE2000 Boot ROMs To: scott@thuntek.net (Scott Halbert) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:17:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960131170652.0114d7a0@thuntek.net> from "Scott Halbert" at Jan 31, 96 10:06:52 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > What's the deal with setting up a NE2000 for a FreeBSD netboot > PROM? Is there some special options that need to be set in > the Makefile or wierd jumpers to set on the card? [ ... ] > It never seems to run the code in the prom at all. It just asks > me for a boot floppy as if it never saw the prom. You need to set the jumper to tell it a ROM is present. From memory (which is probably incorrect) this would be J3. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:24:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24752 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:24:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24721 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA17067; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:22:08 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:22:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311822.NAA17067@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >Sorry, when you first announced it, it was $195 qty 1. >> > >> >This is still really a little more than I'd like to pay. I realize it costs >> >you to build these things and I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just saying >> >that it is not worth that much to me. >> >> Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i >> find it >> interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if >> they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about >> it then you'll save! > >At $169, to purchase a dozen would cost me $2028. Unlike you, I am not >operating a revenue-generating organization, and $2028 is an appreciable >chunk of one of my paychecks, which is ultimately where the money would >come from. Ok...Ok...all I was saying was that if you build it yourself it will cost $50. and you cant design and manufacture 10 cards for the difference. Have a beer or something and relax! Plus at $100/hr or so (I hope you value your time at least that much), its a lot more than 2000. Its the old opportunity cost issue.....if you have nothing else to do then your time is valueless....but if you could be doing some other productive task then the opportunity cost is the value of what you wont be doing while you do it. If I were selling 50,000 cards a month like SMC maybe i could sell them for $2. above cost.....but (fortunately for my sanity) there isnt quite the same market for watchdog timers. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:24:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA24859 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:24:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24849 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:24:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10154; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:21:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311821.LAA10154@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: gerg@stallion.oz.au (Greg Ungerer) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:21:01 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9601311051.aa00088@cluster.stallion.oz.au> from "Greg Ungerer" at Jan 31, 96 10:51:11 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The host driver code will be available in source form. It has been > available for Linux for about 12 months now. The slave (that is download) > code will only be available in binary. It was just easier to use Stallions > standard image, since it has just about everything you will ever need to > do in it. And in any case most people will not have the tools to build it... What are the distribution terms on this image? Alternately, is it in a standard location as a seperate file on the disks that come with the boards so an install script for FreeBSD can be written and thrown into "ports"? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:27:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA25134 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25123 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:26:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id KAA11031 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:26:53 -0800 Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA19322; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:21:45 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:21:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199601311821.NAA19322@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: Paul Traina "Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver" (Jan 31, 10:17am) from: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: Paul Traina Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Jan 31, 10:17am, Paul Traina wrote: } Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver } } From: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu } Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver } On Jan 30, 11:31pm, Paul Traina wrote: } } Not to belittle the effort that Paul LaFollette went to to do his port, } I think it would be more benifitial to wait and use the driver Paul Traina } is working on. This way any and all work on Quickcam applications can be } cross developed on FreeBSD and Linux. } } No, that's silly... we should really just grab the best _technical_ driver } from all camps and insure that we all conform to the same driver API. I have } no idea how compatible mine is with the next-generation Linux driver that is } in the works...hell, I didn't even know there _was_ a next generation linux } driver API in the works until 5 minutes ago. } } Don't worry, by the time all of us get our code out the door, I'm sure there } will be a TON of cross-polination. }-- End of excerpt from Paul Traina Agreed! That is actually what I was refering to. I was trying to say that we aught to wait and not just slap in the first driver that comes along. -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:30:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA25608 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:30:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from Glock.COM (root@glock.com [198.82.228.165]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA25595 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:30:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mmead@localhost) by Glock.COM (8.7.1/8.7.1) id NAA09002; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:28:57 -0500 (EST) From: "matthew c. mead" Message-Id: <199601311828.NAA09002@Glock.COM> Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:28:57 -0500 (EST) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <332.823073323@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 30, 96 11:28:43 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > > The appended patch save under patches-ab. > Now, of course, the real question - have you tried compiling a complete > system or kernel with it yet? :-) I of course mentioned this about a week or two ago. I've got a *mostly* pentium optimized kernel running. Most files compiled fine with -mpentium -O6, but a few wouldn't compile with anything but the gcc 2.6.3 that came with the system. Anyhow, it seems stable to me, it's been up 5 days and I've seen no odd behavior, and I posted lmbench comparisons. I can resend if desired. -matt PS - this is a 2.1 kernel -- Matthew C. Mead mmead@Glock.COM http://www.Glock.COM/~mmead/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:31:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA25757 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25743 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10188; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:28:31 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311828.LAA10188@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:28:31 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <"arg-home.net-tel-0131042105-8916*/G=Andrew/S=Gordon/O=Net-Tel from "Andrew.Gordon@net-tel.co.uk" at Jan 31, 96 04:20:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Why not hang it off the parallel port? Uh... you can't reset a crashed machine from a parallel port. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:32:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26014 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from covina.lightside.com (covina.lightside.com [198.81.209.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26003 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:32:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by covina.lightside.com (Smail3.1.28.1 #6) id m0thhK7-0009ahC; Wed, 31 Jan 96 10:32 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:31:56 -0800 (PST) From: Jake Hamby To: Peter Wemm cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On 31 Jan 1996, Peter Wemm wrote: > jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) writes: > > >> One interesting note, I benchmark FreeBSD vs. Linux (and used to SVR4) > >> regularly in order to evaluate places where performance might/should > >> be improved. I am *brutal* to FreeBSD, but it is getting difficult to > >> find places where it can easily be improved (some of the performance > >> "nits" are due to differences in philosophy and not actual performance > >> problems.) With the latest pipe improvements, I am running out of steam. > >> Indeed, my goal is to "find" performance problems. If anyone has a "cache" > >> of programs to show performance bottlenecks, please email them to me. > >> They will be used to improve FreeBSD's performance, and if I don't > >> do it, DG, BDE or someone else will work on the code. > >> > >> There is another layer of improvements that I have been thinking about, but > >> those require more involved work, and I want to work on easier stuff right > >> now :-). Brain vacation time :-). > >> > >> I would suggest taking a look into uptime benchmark. Make FreeBSD with > >> 50-100 simultaneous users, WWW server, news server, ftp server and lots of > >> nfs in the same machine to stay up for at least weeks in row, instead of > >> days. Popularity of the results is guaranteed, and that is the benchmark > >> professionals value the most. Another thing to look into, although I don't have a benchmark on this, but FreeBSD has a nasty tendency to "bind" during heavy VM/disk activity. I don't know if this is because the IDE driver is CPU intensive, or if this affects people (to a lesser extent) with SCSI drives. It's just that when the system starts paging out to disk, activity in other windows freezes up too. I have 24MB of RAM on my box at home, and notice this quite often, which is even more surprising since I don't push my system more than, say, running a copy of Netscape, emacs, pine, and maybe a compile. Speaking of VM, I set up a system with only 8MB of RAM running FreeBSD, and even though we made a 24MB swap partition, occasionally it fills up. Both boxes are running 2.1.0-RELEASE. If it is not too difficult, I would be REALLY grateful if we could add functionality to add swapfiles and swap partitions to a running system. Even better would be the ability to remove the swapfile without rebooting. Linux (and most SVR4's) have had this functionality for a LONG time. As it is, our BSD limitation of only swapping to the b slice of any particular partition is EXTREMELY frustrating in such situations where extra swap is temporarily needed. Thanks, and keep up the great work! ---Jake From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:35:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26446 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26439 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:35:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10174; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:26:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311826.LAA10174@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:26:42 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601310302.NAA17096@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 31, 96 01:32:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > Go down to Radio shack and buy a copper dot-pad prototype board; they > > are about $10. > > > > Then solder a ribbon connector on it, and run a ribbon cable off to a > > bread board. > > Hey presto, instant RF-to-logic converter. You can now reset your PC > by opening your 'fridge door or putting on the washing. That's why you drop the bus clock rate. 8-). > > Put optoisolators on the breadboard before connecting anything else. > > Yetch. Cheap optos are too slow, and fast ones are too expensive. That's why you put them on the breadboard or on a dedicated developement card instead of on the finished card. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:36:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA26674 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:36:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (xi.dorm.umd.edu [129.2.152.45]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA26649 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:36:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from xi.dorm.umd.edu (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by xi.dorm.umd.edu (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA03415; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:35:44 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:35:44 -0500 (EST) From: Sujal Patel X-Sender: smpatel@xi.dorm.umd.edu To: Paul Traina cc: Paul LaFollette , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-Reply-To: <199601311814.KAA06818@precipice.shockwave.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > Yeah, I think you're right. I was just trying to for that extra burn, but > the ioctl() syscall overhead (to start the next scan) is as bad as the read. Subsequent scans are starting by a lseek() back to zero in the Linux implementation. I don't think that the overhead for that is really going to be significant, considering it takes around 100,000 I/O reads to get a single frame (and the fact that the kernel busy waits for the QuickCam to actually send data sometimes). Sujal From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:44:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27746 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:44:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27736 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:44:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10213; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:50 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311839.LAA10213@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:49 -0700 (MST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <4449.823082602@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 11:03:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > [bad144] > > > > > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the > > > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: > > > > > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing > > > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. > > > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > > Nothing mandates this. > > And who but Terry would care about optimizing something like bad144 > anyway ??? Hello... 1024 cylinder limit... hello... old hardware... hello... 1) Anyone who is forced to use BAD144 on non-translated disks; all of the AT&T 6386/33E systems that went to universities on their educational grant program have 300M untranslated ESDI drives. 2) Anyone who is using an EIDE controller that doesn't support sector sparing in hardware instead of BIOS and wants to install FreeBSD near the end of the disk, either by using FIPS on the existing single DOS partition, or by replacing one or more extended partitions and/or Linux. 3) Anyone who has sector sparing off on their SCSI drives so they can use spindle-sync with a ccd driver without losing rotations, so they have to substitute BAD144 or similar software sparing. I can think of serveral more rather esoteric applications. I do know that #1 in my list has personally bit me both at WSU and the UofU during FreeBSD installs (both were recipients of AT&T educational grants and now have a lot of old hardware). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:45:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA27819 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:45:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from whyy.org (jehrenkrantz@[199.234.236.254]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA27808 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:45:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jehrenkrantz@localhost) by whyy.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA25159; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:49:38 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:49:38 -0500 (EST) From: Jeff Ehrenkrantz To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <199601311556.JAA20068@freebsd.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk 42 and still kicking..je On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mark Hittinger wrote: > > From: Jerry Kendall > > With all the replies to this message(Re: intested!) > > It makes me wonder how old the average 'hacker' on the > > FreeBSD project is.... > > Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting > to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other > OS. > > Regards, > > Mark Hittinger > Netcom/Dallas > bugs@freebsd.netcom.com > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 10:51:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA28815 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:51:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28810 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:51:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id LAA10227; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:42:20 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601311842.LAA10227@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:42:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601310912.KAA19929@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Jan 31, 96 10:12:02 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the > > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: > > > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing > > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > Nothing mandates this. The kernel's automounting of swap slices "mandates" this. The default installation tools "mandate" this. We can take a survey and see how many of us have swap on slice 'b', but since that is where the install tools put it, it's probably 99.9% of us -- just like having "/" on slice 'a'. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:03:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA00151 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA00131 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:03:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA04027; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:59:47 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: Sujal Patel cc: Paul Traina , Paul LaFollette , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk The freebsd/linux cooperation mentioned in these notes is a model of how we ought to work together. It's nice to see guys, congratulations. This is great! Ron Minnich |" XNFPREP: ERROR 4007: rminnich@sarnoff.com | Everything in the design was deleted." (609)-734-3120 |Was it something I said? ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:29:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA02323 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.Sarnoff.COM (terra.sarnoff.com [130.33.11.203]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA02318 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:29:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rminnich@localhost) by terra.Sarnoff.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA04155; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:25:59 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:25:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Ron G. Minnich" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: where to get a quickcam Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk connectix quickcam internet shopping network. ron Ron Minnich |" XNFPREP: ERROR 4007: rminnich@sarnoff.com | Everything in the design was deleted." (609)-734-3120 |Was it something I said? ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:39:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03236 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03231 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thiN2-0003wqC; Wed, 31 Jan 96 11:39 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05210; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:39:12 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Terry Lambert cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:39:49 MST." <199601311839.LAA10213@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:39:11 +0100 Message-ID: <5208.823117151@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > [bad144] > > > > > > > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the > > > > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: > > > > > > > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing > > > > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. > > > > > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > > > Nothing mandates this. > > > > And who but Terry would care about optimizing something like bad144 > > anyway ??? > > Hello... 1024 cylinder limit... hello... old hardware... hello... Exactly. It works with the limitations stipulated. One way to do this on a 1024+ cyl disk is what I did: make one slice which is only for your root & swap (100 Mb ?) make another slice covering the rest of the disk. run bad144 on both. QED: no need to mess with the code. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:44:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA03612 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03605 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:44:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA16488; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:09 -0700 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:09 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601311944.MAA16488@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp), joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-Reply-To: <199601311839.LAA10213@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <4449.823082602@critter.tfs.com> <199601311839.LAA10213@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > And who but Terry would care about optimizing something like bad144 > > anyway ??? > > Hello... 1024 cylinder limit... hello... old hardware... hello... > > 1) Anyone who is forced to use BAD144 on non-translated disks; > all of the AT&T 6386/33E systems that went to universities > on their educational grant program have 300M untranslated > ESDI drives. I doubt many sites outside of Weber have this problem. > 2) Anyone who is using an EIDE controller that doesn't support > sector sparing in hardware instead of BIOS and wants to > install FreeBSD near the end of the disk, either by using > FIPS on the existing single DOS partition, or by replacing > one or more extended partitions and/or Linux. Are they *any* IDE/EIDE drives which don't do sector sparing? Isn't it part of the spec? > 3) Anyone who has sector sparing off on their SCSI drives so they > can use spindle-sync with a ccd driver without losing rotations, > so they have to substitute BAD144 or similar software sparing. I doubt many folks who go throught the hassle of bad144 to get a few percentage points. It's cheaper to buy faster disks. :) > I can think of serveral more rather esoteric applications. > I do know that #1 in my list has personally bit me both at WSU and > the UofU during FreeBSD installs (both were recipients of AT&T > educational grants and now have a lot of old hardware). Hmm, maybe it's a Utah thing, but none of the computers in the Montana University system have ESDI disks anymore. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:58:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04268 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04262 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id UAA16820; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:45:20 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00444; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:43:35 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:43:35 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Satoshi Asami cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <199601310922.BAA02994@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > * Now compiling it. Will commit later after testing packaging. > > Finished, made a few more little modifications and commited it. The > package will be up for ftp too shortly. Fine ! > I used the http site for the patch file instead of including the 800KB > file in the patches/ directory. Very fine ! I wanted to do this, too, but noticed that the hypertext link isn't pointing to a ftp server, bad luck ;-) > The ftpget script we are testing now can handle this; and there is a > copy on ftp.freebsd.org, so regular ncftp users will just get it from > the backup site. Ah, fine. > People, please benchmark it! And thanks for the port, Andreas! Well, was a pleasure between 10pm and 1am ;-) I got the idea, when Paul Henning asked. Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:58:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04313 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04293 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id UAA16889; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:45:26 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00456; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:48:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:48:52 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <332.823073323@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Andreas Klemm wrote: > > > > > Sent it tonight to Satoshi. > > > > To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium > > patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. > > The appended patch save under patches-ab. > > Now, of course, the real question - have you tried compiling a complete > system or kernel with it yet? :-) A complete make world isn't possible. You'll get many compiler errors, for example in libc and so on. What I don't understand is, that the new gcc can't compile sources that are compiled well by gcc-2.6.3. Surely it has to do with stricter prototyping I think... X11R6 didn't work for me after recompiling completely with -pipe -mpentium -O2... People told me, that they made same experiences. The port differs a bit from the version I used these days, I added --with-gnu-as and --with-gnu-ld, perhaps this makes a little difference in code generation ? We'll see. Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 11:59:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA04389 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04377 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 11:59:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id UAA16943; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:45:34 +0100 (MET) Received: (from andreas@localhost) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA05865; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:35:53 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm Message-Id: <199601311935.UAA05865@knobel.gun.de> Subject: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 To: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:35:52 +0100 (MET) Cc: jkh@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi ! I'd suggest to add something to the CPP_PREDEFINES... Here the self documenting patch ;-) BTW: Could compile /usr/src/bin and /usr/src/sbin without any trouble using -pipe -mpentium -O6. Compilation with -6 only failed in /usr/src/usr.bin/tftp. gcc got fatal signal 6. With -05, too. Optimization level -O4 worked ok for this subdir. [ Kernel compilation failed, Jordan ;-) ] Another thing... When bootstrapping gcc it will be build using the CFLAGS -O2. Should we perhaps change this to: -pipe -mpentium -O2 ??? Andreas /// *** gcc-2.7.2/config/i386/freebsd.h.orig Wed Jan 31 20:16:50 1996 --- gcc-2.7.2/config/i386/freebsd.h Wed Jan 31 20:17:43 1996 *************** *** 35,41 **** #include "i386/perform.h" #undef CPP_PREDEFINES ! #define CPP_PREDEFINES "-Dunix -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__ -D__386BSD__ -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386)" /* Like the default, except no -lg. */ #define LIB_SPEC "%{!p:%{!pg:-lc}}%{p:-lc_p}%{pg:-lc_p}" --- 35,41 ---- #include "i386/perform.h" #undef CPP_PREDEFINES ! #define CPP_PREDEFINES "-Dunix -Di386 -Dbsd4_4 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__386BSD__ -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386)" /* Like the default, except no -lg. */ #define LIB_SPEC "%{!p:%{!pg:-lc}}%{p:-lc_p}%{pg:-lc_p}" -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:10:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA05748 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:10:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05651 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA07401; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:08:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601312008.OAA07401@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:08:08 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311822.NAA17067@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 31, 96 01:22:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >> Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i > >> find it > >> interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if > >> they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about > >> it then you'll save! > > > >At $169, to purchase a dozen would cost me $2028. Unlike you, I am not > >operating a revenue-generating organization, and $2028 is an appreciable > >chunk of one of my paychecks, which is ultimately where the money would > >come from. > > Ok...Ok...all I was saying was that if you build it yourself it will cost > $50. and you cant design and manufacture 10 cards for the difference. If I build them myself and build 12, it costs me $600 - I count a $1428 difference. That's significant financial savings. > Have a beer or something and relax! Trust me, I'm perfectly relaxed. :-) > Plus at $100/hr or so (I hope you value your time at least that > much), its a lot more than 2000. If I'm actually building them myself and not shoveling the task off onto one of the folks who owe me many favors.. but then again, I don't have sooooo many customers that my time is completely booked, anyways. > Its the old opportunity cost issue.....if you have nothing else to do then > your time is > valueless....but if you could be doing some other productive task then the > opportunity > cost is the value of what you wont be doing while you do it. Yes, and I always have something else to be doing. However, you're calculating the cost differently than I would. Money is certainly an issue. But, think about this: If I spend 20 hours working on boards that can automatically reset my systems, that is a fixed-cost investment to solve 90% of a particular class of problems - lockups. (sometimes hardware dies). If I don't, then I have to travel 20 miles to the office once every week or two to reboot a hung system. Sometimes this is convenient, sometimes not. Since the round trip takes an hour, after 40 weeks I have spent that same 20 hours to live with the problem, but have not actually solved the problem. This is a compelling reason to consider spending time to solve the problem. I regain my time for "productive tasks" by reducing the time I spend doing nonproductive tasks like driving. But it's more of an investment than a short term gain. If I had unlimited money, I'd buy your watchdog board. But then again, if I had unlimited money, I would have bought Cisco routers and Annex terminal servers and quad-HyperSPARC Sun workstations. One of the compelling reasons for people to go with FreeBSD and PC's is because it is so economical. > If I were selling 50,000 cards a month like SMC maybe i could sell them for > $2. above > cost.....but (fortunately for my sanity) there isnt quite the same market > for watchdog > timers. I know. As I said, that's why I'm not pounding on you about the price of your cards :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:15:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06209 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:15:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06204 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:15:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA07794; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:15:40 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19409 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:15:12 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26274 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:42:14 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA01132; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:40:28 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601311840.TAA01132@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:40:28 +0100 (MET) Cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601302206.XAA11864@gvr.win.tue.nl> from "Guido van Rooij" at Jan 30, 96 11:06:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > of certain competition of ours.... I am an old-fart of 39... Very > > set in my ways... Those of you who are reading certain newsgroups > > will know what I mean :-). > > Wearing Birckenstocks you mean? > > -Guido Or growing little horns, or waving a trident? ;-) _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:17:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06388 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:17:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06382 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:17:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA07807; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:16:55 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19478 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:16:22 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26305 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:43:47 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA01221; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:49:34 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601311849.TAA01221@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: dufault@hda.com (Peter Dufault) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:49:33 +0100 (MET) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311222.HAA24662@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 31, 96 07:22:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Apparantly I'm overlooking something because the 2nd disk (LUN1) > > is not recognised. Did try to use a 'sd1 at scbus 0 target 0 unit 1' > > but that was not enough apparantly. > > > > What am I missing here? > > You need SC_MORE_LUS as a knowndev entry in scsiconf.c to encourage the > probe code to look for more luns. The default match for a disk > says to only look for a single lun. > Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation Plain stupid yes, I found the SC_ONE_LU but only changed the first (==wrong) occurrence of it in scsiconf.c Thanks for the hint. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:18:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06428 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06416 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:18:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA07814; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:17:49 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA19562 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:17:22 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA26312 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:43:50 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA01270; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:02:08 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199601311902.UAA01270@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:02:08 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hsu@clinet.fi, hm@altona.hamburg.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, brian@MediaCity.com In-Reply-To: <199601310302.NAA17096@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Jan 31, 96 01:32:51 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > Go down to Radio shack and buy a copper dot-pad prototype board; they > > are about $10. > > > > Then solder a ribbon connector on it, and run a ribbon cable off to a > > bread board. > > Hey presto, instant RF-to-logic converter. You can now reset your PC > by opening your 'fridge door or putting on the washing. And the other way around. You can now tune in your radio to check how busy your system is. And about the fridge: friend of mine had exactly this problem, he opened to fridge to get a beer and the system went belly up ;-) > > Terry Lambert > ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ Another programmer with a soldering iron 8-) _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:25:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA06948 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:25:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06942 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:25:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10397; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:20:29 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312020.NAA10397@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:20:29 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5208.823117151@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 08:39:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Exactly. It works with the limitations stipulated. The limitations stipulated are annoying. 8-(. > One way to do this on a 1024+ cyl disk is what I did: > > make one slice which is only for your root & swap (100 Mb ?) Having to have the swap on the root device for local disk is annoying (as is building a custom kernel to relocate it). To get the equivalent of what I suggested, you'd have to have slice 'a' by itself on a partition. This *does* work in the most recent code, but it didn't used to, and you still have to go through contortions on it. > make another slice covering the rest of the disk. > > run bad144 on both. > > QED: no need to mess with the code. Except to not have to squeeze swap below 1024. I think the devfs is the key to resolving most of this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:29:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07235 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:29:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.tyrell.net (www.tyrell.net [198.175.8.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07220 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:29:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from Colossus.dptek.com (dptek.com) by mail.tyrell.net with SMTP id AA16394 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for hackers@freefall.freebsd.org); Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:11:29 -0600 Received: from jtb2.dptek.com (dptek34.dptek.com [204.120.38.34]) by Colossus.dptek.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA17630 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:19:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199601312019.OAA17630@Colossus.dptek.com> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Jack Bone" Organization: DP-TEK Development co. To: hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:13:32 cdt Subject: Re: hackers ages Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.23) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I quess that I'll bias the curve a bit more, I have 30 yr.s in this field, I'll be 54 in a few days. FreeBSD is the best OS since IBM 1800 TSX (1966) and IBM Series/1 EDX (1976) Jack Bone Software Design Engineer DP-Tek Development Co. LLC email: jack@dptek.com http://www.dptek.com/~jack/ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:32:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07506 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07497 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:32:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thjCn-0003x2C; Wed, 31 Jan 96 12:32 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA05379 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:32:41 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:08:08 CST." <199601312008.OAA07401@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:32:40 +0100 Message-ID: <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion for a ISA card: The "FreeBSD gadget": Watchdog, can be set to timouts of 1s, 10s and 60s or something. Will launch a RESET, NMI, or IRQ (jumper). 10, 100 or 250 Mhz timer, with readable count, generates IRQ 20/100/250 (jumper) times a second. (For microtime) (Maybe even with a 10/11 swallow counter along the lines the XNTP people suggest.) NVram for console. 64K of NVram (preferrably FIFO), for console-messages, not affected by reset. Optional: A microcontroller to make a async console with the above nvram. (incl modem handling and passwd) Possibly even with a BIOS-eprom to even make the bios available that way. Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) Now, if produced in some decent quantity, the price might be right... How many ISP's would buy one ? I'm not going to make it, I'm SW only, but I'd buy a couple right away. Any takers ? -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:36:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA07779 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:36:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA07765 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA29414; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:35:56 -0800 (PST) To: "Mike Pritchard" cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac doc-common doc-syms In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:59:11 CST." <199601311659.KAA09410@mpp.minn.net> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:35:55 -0800 Message-ID: <29412.823120555@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Should I just remove the word "Experimental", so that any > man page that doesn't specify the operating system will come > up as "BSD"? We can fix any 3rd party packages as we notice them. Sounds good to me - I always thought that tag was a little content free since what's `experimental' mean to all of us? Pretty different things, that's what! > Next, Should FreeBSD 2.2 be listed as "FreeBSD 2.2 Experimental" > or "FreeBSD 2.2 Development" or some such? I didn't do that I've always liked "FreeBSD 2.2 Current" myself.. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:38:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08030 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:38:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08007 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:38:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA29454; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:38:26 -0800 (PST) To: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Willows In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:48:08 EST." <199601311748.MAA19097@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:38:26 -0800 Message-ID: <29452.823120706@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Any word on a port to freebsd of willows TWIN XPDK for UNIX? > I would *very* much like to try it out and the word was that there was > going to be a port (presumably be willows). I have a couple of calls into them - USENIX kind of put a halt on everything. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:39:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08066 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08040 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:38:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17346 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:38:23 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:38:23 -0500 Message-Id: <199601312038.PAA17346@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, mailing list account wrote: >> > now here is a cost cutting idea: does anyone know how well freebsd stacks >> > against say a cisco 2500 series router? cisco 4000? cisco 4500? say using >> > a p5-100? p5-166? >> >> >From what I have seen gated will do just about anything a cisco will (IP >> that is). However, the cisco boxes have high speed route processors and >> other things that the PC can't compete with. >> >> I am going to be getting a FreeBSD ethernet router box together using a few >> multiport de21x4x based cards. The ipfw stuff should make for a good >> firewall/filter box. :) > >Yes, the PC probably can't compete with the Cisco's routing-optimized >architecture. I'm not sure if that just means that latency is higher or if >it actually affects throughput, however. Anybody? :-) We have customers running Pentiums with multiple T1s and 100bt ethernet as 4??? replacements with much luck. Forget about a 2500 series as a comparision as its slower than a 486/40 with 1 t1...The processing power of a Pentium 100/120/133 yields better results when extensive processing (filtering, etc) is present...I havent hear any complaints about it being slower than a 4000 or 4500....and its less than half the price. The 7000 is a whole 'nother ball of wax...as its designed as a hub/switch for which a PC just isnt appropriate. The big issue with many is that you need to get a high-end cisco to do many things. To pay $8000 or $12000 for a 4 line T1 router is absurd (I dont know the actual number here so please dont beat me up....but there are ]apparently a lot of "extras" and memory requirement to do real, multi-homed routing). dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:39:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08104 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from mramirez.sy.yale.edu (mramirez.sy.yale.edu [130.132.57.207]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08091 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrami@localhost) by mramirez.sy.yale.edu (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA21310; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:03 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:02 -0500 (EST) From: Marc Ramirez Reply-To: mrami@minerva.cis.yale.edu To: Mark Hittinger cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <199601311556.JAA20068@freebsd.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Mark Hittinger wrote: > Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting > to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other > OS. Okay, in the interest of scientific scrutiny :), I have created ages@mramirez.sy.yale.edu, the Age Counter. Send a message to this address, put in the subject ONLY your age, in a decimal representation. This way, it'll be easy for me to tally it with an awk script. I don't care what you put in the body, because I'll probaly never read it. Now's your chance to make fun of me and curse me to your heart's content. I just put in my stats, so the sample pop. now stands at: sample: 1 mean: 22 probably not that far from the "other guys" at this point. :) Marc. -- "An anthropologist at Tulane has just come back from a field trip to New Guinea with reports of a tribe so primitive that they have Tide but not new Tide with lemon-fresh Borax." -- David Letterman From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:39:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08135 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA08128 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:39:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA29434; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:37:19 -0800 (PST) To: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:05:09 +0100." <199601311705.SAA14795@gvr.win.tue.nl> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:37:19 -0800 Message-ID: <29432.823120639@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The old hacker shoes ;-) Look at the berkeley daemon at the `free the > 4.4bsd'. They are open wooden shoes (no cloggies). Here in Hgolland often > worn by nurses. And at Berkeley, just about everybody else who was to the left of Nixon. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:44:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08628 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08609 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA00880; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199601312044.MAA00880@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Paul Traina cc: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 10:17:04 PST." <199601311817.KAA06853@precipice.shockwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:08 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk You guys shall try to focus your effors in a small mailing list ... We get too much mail on this mailing list so people may miss a posting related to the Quickam stuff.. Amancio >>> Paul Traina said: > > From: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu > Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver > On Jan 30, 11:31pm, Paul Traina wrote: > > Not to belittle the effort that Paul LaFollette went to to do his port, > I think it would be more benifitial to wait and use the driver Paul Traina > is working on. This way any and all work on Quickcam applications can be > cross developed on FreeBSD and Linux. > > No, that's silly... we should really just grab the best _technical_ driver > from all camps and insure that we all conform to the same driver API. I hav e > no idea how compatible mine is with the next-generation Linux driver that is > in the works...hell, I didn't even know there _was_ a next generation linux > driver API in the works until 5 minutes ago. > > Don't worry, by the time all of us get our code out the door, I'm sure there > will be a TON of cross-polination. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:45:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08646 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08619 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:44:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA17359; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:42:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:42:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199601312042.PAA17359@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Joe Greco From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> >> Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i >> >> find it >> >> interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if >> >> they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about >> >> it then you'll save! >> > >> >At $169, to purchase a dozen would cost me $2028. Unlike you, I am not >> >operating a revenue-generating organization, and $2028 is an appreciable >> >chunk of one of my paychecks, which is ultimately where the money would >> >come from. >> >> Ok...Ok...all I was saying was that if you build it yourself it will cost >> $50. and you cant design and manufacture 10 cards for the difference. > >If I build them myself and build 12, it costs me $600 - I count a $1428 >difference. That's significant financial savings. of course you cant build 12 for $50. each with tooling and prototypes..but even if you could... You must not pay yourself much...thats not much of my time. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:46:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA08874 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:46:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from cwbone.bsi.com.br ([200.250.250.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08855 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from lenzi ([200.247.248.100]) by cwbone.bsi.com.br (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA21731 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:45:19 GMT Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:41:21 -0200 (EDT) From: "Lenzi, Sergio" X-Sender: lenzi@lenzi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <199601311556.JAA20068@freebsd.netcom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I'm almost a hacker and I'm 44 years. Sergio lenzi. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:51:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09354 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09346 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10480; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:47:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312047.NAA10480@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: signal masks and select To: paul@sfe.com.au (Paul Hatchman) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:47:05 -0700 (MST) Cc: leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com, linux-kernel@vger.rutgers.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199601310749.AA28625@rex.sfe.com.au> from "Paul Hatchman" at Jan 31, 96 06:49:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > This can be "solved" by using setjmp/longjmp with select. > ie > if (setjmp (env, 1) == 0) > { > set_sigmask(unblock desired signals) > select(...) > } > > and your signal handler does a longjmp (env) > > There are drawbacks to this.. If you want to unblock signals outside of the > select, you must keep extra state information around, so that the signal handler > knows whether to do a normal return or a longjmp. > > May not be elegant, but it is surely better than using non portable methods. > Actually is this truely portable? Will all unicies support longjmp from a > signal handler? sigaction should be portable to all POSIX platforms. siginterrupt should be portable to all BSD platforms starting with 4.2 Ultrix. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:51:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09374 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:51:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09362 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:51:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA16822; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:52:00 -0700 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:52:00 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601312052.NAA16822@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager In-Reply-To: <199601311842.LAA10227@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199601310912.KAA19929@uriah.heep.sax.de> <199601311842.LAA10227@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > We can take a survey and see how many of us have swap on slice 'b', > but since that is where the install tools put it, it's probably > 99.9% of us -- just like having "/" on slice 'a'. On my second drive, I don't have "/" on 'a', but instead of swap on it. I suspect that folks with multiple swap partitions (which I suspect is greater than 0.1% of the folks) don't follow the same guidelines. The above statements are generally relevant to the first disk used by FreeBSD, but after that it's a crap shoot. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 12:56:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA09895 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:56:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA09870 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:56:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA10520; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:53:48 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312053.NAA10520@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Converting from Linux to FreeBSD To: lehey.pad@sni.de (Greg Lehey) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:53:48 -0700 (MST) Cc: pierce@diamondmm.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601311519.QAA02179@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 31, 96 04:15:24 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > My questions... > > > > can linux be 'upgraded' in place to freeBSD? > > Probably not. Certainly, in view of the requirement that you don't go > down for long, you'd be better off installing FreeBSD on separate > disks. That way, if you *do* experience problems, you can fall back > to Linux quickly and painlessly. In particular, the Linux second stage boot code will not work for FreeBSD, which expects the second stage boot code to pass it much information from BIOS space that is unavailable in protected mode. In addition, using the FreeBSD second stage boot will not by default recognize the unsliced partitions Linux uses as mountable as root, nor will the kernel recognize ext2fs by default (variant root FS types is one argument pro a bootfs). At a minimum, your root FS will need to be UFS at present, unless you plan to use unredistributable local hacks to put the GPL'ed code statically in a BSD kernel. > > does freeBSD support the ext2 file system from linux w/o > > reformatting? > > No, sorry. You'll have to convert everything to ufs. Yes, but not for root (see above). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:02:57 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10370 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:02:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10350 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:02:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10547; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:00:21 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312100.OAA10547@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Compaq 16MB limit... To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:00:20 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Jan31.101920est.20485@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Jan 31, 96 10:12:33 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Problem: When a Compaq has 64 Meg DRAM in it, BSDI does not see it all. > It only see's 16Meg.. The BIOS say's hat there is 64 BUT BSDI says 16.. > > I have been told that FreeBSD has fixed this somehow... Can somebody > please tell me 'approx' which files to look at in the kernel source > code to see how it was done ???? Compaq and Dell have decided that their historical misuse of a couple of CMOS bits constitutes "acceptable practice". As a result, the max memory you see when you query the CMOS is 16M (or 32M for non-bogus machines). The POST reports the RAM correctly because the BIOS can be written to use hardware specific mechanisms to report the RAM. There is no documented API to return the amount of RAM in a machine other than CMOS. There is no BIOS routine that can be used by the boot blocks to overcome this limit, nor does the POST place the results of its test or expose a ROM routine for sizing memory. FreeBSD "fixes" this problem by allowing you to mandate the amount of RAM in the machine and force it to ignore the (standard) CMOS mechanism for sizing RAM. See /sys/i386/conf/LINT for details. UnixWare fixes this by allowing you to make a one line entry in a configuration file in the /stand "bootfs" partition -- it's similar to the FreeBSD "fix", except that you don't have to rebuild the kernel. In more recent (or future) versions of FreeBSD, this may be specifiable at the boot "-c" interface for device reconfiguration. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:06:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10677 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:06:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (mail.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10665 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20491>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:13:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:06:21 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Paul Traina Cc: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-Reply-To: <199601311817.KAA06853@precipice.shockwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Jan31.161325est.20491@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Paul Traina wrote: Just got 'xfqcam' and can't seem to get it to compile... It requires 'ioperm()' system call. This is specific to Linux... ????? Where can I get a QuickCam driver for FreeBSD 2.1R that runs out of the box???????? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:09:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA10960 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10942 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:09:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id PAA07508; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:07:49 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199601312107.PAA07508@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:07:48 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601312042.PAA17359@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 31, 96 03:42:35 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >If I build them myself and build 12, it costs me $600 - I count a $1428 > >difference. That's significant financial savings. > > of course you cant build 12 for $50. each with tooling and prototypes..but > even if you could... > > You must not pay yourself much...thats not much of my time. You obviously didn't understand the rest of the argument. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:12:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA11234 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA11226 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:12:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA10589; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:09:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312109.OAA10589@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:09:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601312052.NAA16822@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 31, 96 01:52:00 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > We can take a survey and see how many of us have swap on slice 'b', > > but since that is where the install tools put it, it's probably > > 99.9% of us -- just like having "/" on slice 'a'. > > On my second drive, I don't have "/" on 'a', but instead of swap on it. > I suspect that folks with multiple swap partitions (which I suspect is > greater than 0.1% of the folks) don't follow the same guidelines. > > The above statements are generally relevant to the first disk used by > FreeBSD, but after that it's a crap shoot. Since this is a boot/install issue, anything other than the first disk is really irrelevant to the discussion. I'd wager that the majority of FreeBSD users are single disk. On the systems I had problems on, the machines were *not* single disk, yet fixing the location of the bad track table so the whole partition desn't need to be below 1024 would have still solved my install problems. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:35:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13094 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:35:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from unix.stylo.it ([194.21.207.250]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13081 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:35:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from trust.stylo.it (trust.stylo.it [194.21.207.253]) by unix.stylo.it (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA04782 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:30:53 +0100 Received: by trust.stylo.it with NT SMTP Gateway ver 31 id <310FDE43@trust.stylo.it>; Wed, 31 Jan 96 22:25:23 W From: Angelo Turetta To: freebsd-hackers Subject: IPFW Accounting problem Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 22:22:00 W Message-ID: <310FDE43@trust.stylo.it> Encoding: 31 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk My previous posting on Jan 19th to 'questions' probably got lost (my message is not in the www.freebsd.org mail archives) I'm using 2.0.5R and I tried to use IP Accounting without any success. Can anyone explain one possible cause for the following error: ~> ipfw adda bidirectional all from 0/0 to 0/0 via 194.21.207.250 ipfw: setsockopt failed. ~> ipfw adda single all from 194.21.207.254 to 194.20.20.15 via 194.20.20.37 ipfw: setsockopt failed. Of course my kernel config contains: options IPFIREWALL #firewall options IPFIREWALL_VERBOSE #..... options IPACCT #Accounting Is there something more to setup before trying the ipfw command ? The man page is rather sparse if you are not yet experienced with this topic. The mail archives report rumours about IPACCT brokenness in 2.0.5R: is that true ? Thanks in advance. Angelo Turetta Stylo Multimedia From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:40:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13549 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:40:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from puli.cisco.com (puli.cisco.com [171.69.1.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA13508 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:39:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by puli.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) with SMTP id NAA21667; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:38:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199601312138.NAA21667@puli.cisco.com> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de (Andreas Klemm) Cc: asami@cs.berkeley.edu (Satoshi Asami), jkh@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 In-Reply-To: andreas@knobel.gun.de's message of 31 Jan 1996 11:35:52 PST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:38:44 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're running under. #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H #include #endif #if defined(BSD) && (BSD >= datecode) ... #endif This gives us much finer grained control. The other change (__FreeBSD__=2) is absolutely positively correct. > *** gcc-2.7.2/config/i386/freebsd.h.orig Wed Jan 31 20:16:50 1996 > --- gcc-2.7.2/config/i386/freebsd.h Wed Jan 31 20:17:43 1996 > *************** > *** 35,41 **** > #include "i386/perform.h" > > #undef CPP_PREDEFINES > ! #define CPP_PREDEFINES "-Dunix -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__ -D__386BSD__ -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386)" > > /* Like the default, except no -lg. */ > #define LIB_SPEC "%{!p:%{!pg:-lc}}%{p:-lc_p}%{pg:-lc_p}" > --- 35,41 ---- > #include "i386/perform.h" > > #undef CPP_PREDEFINES > ! #define CPP_PREDEFINES "-Dunix -Di386 -Dbsd4_4 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__386BSD__ -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386)" > > /* Like the default, except no -lg. */ > #define LIB_SPEC "%{!p:%{!pg:-lc}}%{p:-lc_p}%{pg:-lc_p}" From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:41:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA13762 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:41:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA13744 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id WAA04909; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:30:15 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06455; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:03:26 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:03:25 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: "matthew c. mead" cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <199601311828.NAA09002@Glock.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, matthew c. mead wrote: > I of course mentioned this about a week or two ago. I've got a > *mostly* pentium optimized kernel running. Most files compiled fine with > -mpentium -O6, but a few wouldn't compile with anything but the gcc 2.6.3 that > came with the system. Anyhow, it seems stable to me, it's been up 5 days and > I've seen no odd behavior, and I posted lmbench comparisons. I can resend if > desired. I compiled the kernel, as you suggested... runs fine here, too. Only a few file won't compile and there are linking problems. -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:52:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14871 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from DeepCore.dk (aalb8.pip.dknet.dk [194.192.0.168]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA14848 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:52:40 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by DeepCore.dk (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA00974; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:00:47 +0100 (MET) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <199601312100.WAA00974@DeepCore.dk> Subject: Re: Hackers ages To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:00:46 +0100 (MET) Cc: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4920.823105169@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 05:19:29 pm Reply-to: sos@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply to Poul-Henning Kamp who wrote: > > > > From: Jerry Kendall > > > With all the replies to this message(Re: intested!) > > > It makes me wonder how old the average 'hacker' on the > > > FreeBSD project is.... > > > > Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting > > to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other > > OS. > > I guess I barely make it into the "adults only" section here, I have > less than 2 weeks experience in being a "Thirty-something" :-) Oh well, I'll go in between, I just turned 35 a month ago.... > Judging from the people I have met, it seems like FreeBSD is composed > of a large fraction of "grown-up" hackers, and that could easily explain > the uncommonly strong focus we have on stability and performance. Yeah, or we are getting to old to stay up all night doing all those wonderfull things... (that somebody must fix the next day) > The funny thing is that most of us were more interested in ice-cream > and soda-pop when UNIX was started... Og røde pølser !! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Soren Schmidt (sos@FreeBSD.org) FreeBSD Core Team Even more code to hack -- will it ever end .. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:53:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA14960 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA14950 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:53:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA08229; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:52:25 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA21708; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:52:25 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA22491; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:32:04 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601312132.WAA22491@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Converting from Linux to FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:32:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: pierce@diamondmm.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601311519.QAA02179@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> from "Greg Lehey" at Jan 31, 96 04:15:24 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Greg Lehey wrote: > > > does freeBSD support the ext2 file system from linux w/o > > reformatting? > > No, sorry. You'll have to convert everything to ufs. This is not exactly true however. The ext2fs code is there, but it's still considered somewhat experimental and thus not yet available in any release. So the correct answer is: FreeBSD does support ext2fs, but we would rather recommend you backing up your disks and use ufs instead, since this has been much more tested. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 13:54:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA15113 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:54:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA15100 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:54:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id NAA29124; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:58:39 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199601312158.NAA29124@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done To: hasty@rah.star-gate.com (Amancio Hasty Jr.) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:58:39 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601310838.AAA01609@rah.star-gate.com> from "Amancio Hasty Jr." at Jan 31, 96 00:38:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I think that you guys better check with > Rob Mallory his mpeg_play compiled with > whatever patches he has for gcc is about 20% faster than then > the gcc-2.7.2p6 that I have over here . > if you want my older port (from oct.95) ftp://tns.csusb.edu/pub/unix/pentium/* the mpeg_play and xv binaries are there too.. Thanks for the plug, Amancio! ...I did a i.2.7.0 port from the lin*x-derived i2.6.3. then to 2.7.2 when it came out, and added the freebsd diffs bruce posted a while back.. One thing everyone must remember is that *all* of this (including the european www-able one) is _only_ an attempt at porting the original i2.4.5 patches from Trevor Levi@intel (talked to him too). Those patches preaty much worked at that time. gcc has evolved radicaly. New algorithms have been developed for pentium-optimizations. There is *no* significant new code (or recoding) in any of the public-domain patchkits based on the original i2.4.5. They are simply hacks and munges to 'make it work'. This is what depressed me so much about the whole thing. Someone who knows compilers, and the hardware needs to take a few hours or days and really get this going. I found the 2.7.2p6 version to be slower than my port, in some instances, (especially compile time). but my i2.7.2 was also slower. (the stock freebsd compiler ranked up there.) In between 2.7.0-2.7.2 something munged the pentium performance. If anyone wants to help get it rolling, it is damn close to being 'real', but at this time, its good for only jpeg_lib and mpeg_play.;) ...although I did compile parts of the kernel once and saw significant improvement.. -Rob Mallory [rmallory@wiley.csusb.edu/rmallory@qualcomm.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:10:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16506 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:10:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16486 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17374; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:13:07 -0700 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:13:07 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199601312213.PAA17374@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Jake Hamby Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Swapping (was Re: Good news -- pipe stuff) In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Another thing to look into, although I don't have a benchmark on this, but > FreeBSD has a nasty tendency to "bind" during heavy VM/disk activity. I > don't know if this is because the IDE driver is CPU intensive, or if this > affects people (to a lesser extent) with SCSI drives. This is an IDE thing. Basically, the system must uses lots more CPU and is much less effecient than using the SCSI drivers. > It's just that when > the system starts paging out to disk, activity in other windows freezes up > too. There's nothing else the system can do when it's swapping. :) > Speaking of VM, I set up a system with only 8MB of RAM running FreeBSD, > and even though we made a 24MB swap partition, occasionally it fills up. > Both boxes are running 2.1.0-RELEASE. If it is not too difficult, I > would be REALLY grateful if we could add functionality to add swapfiles > and swap partitions to a running system. You can. See 'man vnconfig'. > Even better would be the > ability to remove the swapfile without rebooting. Linux (and most > SVR4's) have had this functionality for a LONG time. Are you *SURE* you can remove it w/out rebooting on Linux. AFAIK, it's not possible, although I do know my Solaris box can delete swapfiles (although I have yet to have an occasion to do so, since the Solaris box always wants more swap than I have disk space. :) Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:12:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16741 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16734 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:12:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA10957; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:07:44 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199601312207.PAA10957@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:07:44 -0700 (MST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601311739.LAA07197@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 31, 96 11:39:58 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > However, once AOS (IBM's 4.3BSD UNIX) was up and running, > something cute happened: UNIX started putting out the current load average > on the POST display. This tended to give a really warm fuzzy about what was > happening (or not happening) on the box, and when you have a machine room > with a dozen systems racked and stacked it would be nice to have it. The LCD display on Dell boxes was programmed by the 386BSD 0.1 boot to say something like "GO!!!". I can't rememebr for sure. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:15:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16878 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:15:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from gvr.win.tue.nl (root@gvr.win.tue.nl [131.155.210.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16871 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:15:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by gvr.win.tue.nl (8.6.10/1.53) id XAA15623; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:14:59 +0100 From: guido@gvr.win.tue.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199601312214.XAA15623@gvr.win.tue.nl> Subject: bind() bug in almost all OS'es To: FreeBSD-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:14:58 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk I posted this on secuirty. This is severe in my eyes. Fortunately there is still the concept of reserved ports but it does not help sniffing nfs ports :-( -Guido Aleph's K-Rad GECOS Field wrote: > From owner-freebsd-security@freefall.freebsd.org Wed Jan 31 16:00:48 1996 > X-Authentication-Warning: suburbia.net: majordom set sender to owner-best-of-security using -f > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 15:18:21 -0800 (PST) > From: "Aleph's K-Rad GECOS Field" > To: linux-security@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu > cc: linux-alert@tarsier.cv.nrao.edu, bugtraq@crimelab.com, > best-of-security@suburbia.net > Subject: BoS: bind() Security Problems > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > Reply-To: nobody@mail.uu.net > Sender: owner-security@FreeBSD.org > Precedence: bulk > > > System Call: bind() > Affected Operating System: Linux, SunOS, FreeBSD, BSDI, Ultrix > Probably others. > Requirement: account on system. > Security Compromise: Stealing packets from > nfsd, yppasswd, ircd, etc. > Credits: *Hobbit* > bitblt > Aleph One > Synopsis: bind() does not properly check > to make sure there is not a socket > already bound to INADDR_ANY on the same > port when binding to a specific address. > > On most systems, a combination of setting the SO_REUSEADDR > socket option, and a call to bind() allows any process to bind to > a port to which a previous process has bound width INADDR_ANY. This > allows a user to bind to the specific address of a server bound to > INADDR_ANY on an unprivileged port, and steal its udp packets/tcp > connection. > > Exploit: > > Download and compile netcat from ftp://ftp.avian.org/src/hacks/nc100.tgz > Make sure an nfs server is running: > > w00p% netstat -a | grep 2049 > udp 0 0 *.2049 *.* LISTEN > > Run netcat: > > w00p% nc -v -v -u -s 192.88.209.5 -p 2049 > listening on [192.88.209.5] 2049 ... > > Wait for packets to arrive. > > Fix: > > Linux: A patch was been sent to Linus and Alan Cox. It should be > included with 1.3.60. My original patch (included bellow) allows for > binds from the same uid, as some virtual hosting software like modified > httpds, and ftpds, may break otherwise. > > Alan didnt like this, so all bind to the same port will > not be allowed in newer kernels. You should be able to easily adapt > this patch or Alan's patch to 1.2.13 without much trouble. > > Others: Pray to your vendors. > > --- begin patch --- > > > diff -u --recursive --new-file linux-1.3.57/net/ipv4/af_inet.c linux/net/ipv4/af_inet.c > --- linux-1.3.57/net/ipv4/af_inet.c Mon Dec 25 20:03:01 1995 > +++ linux/net/ipv4/af_inet.c Tue Jan 16 19:46:28 1996 > @@ -46,6 +46,8 @@ > * Germano Caronni : Assorted small races. > * Alan Cox : sendmsg/recvmsg basic support. > * Alan Cox : Only sendmsg/recvmsg now supported. > + * Aleph One : Rogue processes could steal packets > + * from processes bound to INADDR_ANY. > * > * This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or > * modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License > @@ -899,6 +901,12 @@ > > if (sk2->num != snum) > continue; /* more than one */ > + if ((sk2->rcv_saddr == 0 || sk->rcv_saddr == 0) && > + current->euid != sk2->socket->inode->i_uid) > + { > + sti(); > + return(-EADDRINUSE); > + } > if (sk2->rcv_saddr != sk->rcv_saddr) > continue; /* socket per slot ! -FB */ > if (!sk2->reuse || sk2->state==TCP_LISTEN) > > > Aleph One / aleph1@underground.org > http://underground.org/ > KeyID 1024/948FD6B5 > Fingerprint EE C9 E8 AA CB AF 09 61 8C 39 EA 47 A8 6A B8 01 > > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:15:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA16980 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:15:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16960 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:15:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id XAA08759 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:15:39 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id XAA22589 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:15:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA22694 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:57:25 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199601312157.WAA22694@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: cvs commit: src/gnu/usr.bin/groff/tmac doc-common doc-syms To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:57:24 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601311659.KAA09410@mpp.minn.net> from "Mike Pritchard" at Jan 31, 96 10:59:11 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mike Pritchard wrote: (About the .Os macro of mdoc) > There are still a lot of man pages that will come up as "BSD Experimental". > That is how the ".Os" macro works if it is used without any arguments. > Should I just remove the word "Experimental", so that any > man page that doesn't specify the operating system will come > up as "BSD"? We can fix any 3rd party packages as we notice them. I'm all for it. The default OS is not considered experimental. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:26:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18067 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:26:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18054 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:26:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02255; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:24:57 -0800 Message-Id: <199601312224.OAA02255@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org cc: multimedia@star-gate.com Subject: sound driver and -current Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:24:56 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk In conjuction with the multimedia folks and Hannu we are working on a new sound driver which will replace the stuff on -current. So please if you are going to work on the sound driver join the multimedia mailing list: mail majordomo@rah.star-gate.com subscribe multimedia Trust me I really don't mine checking in the new sound driver when is ready. I am saying this because I am well aware that some of the folks hacking on the old sound driver are aware of the new Voxware driver. Later, Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA18566 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA18552 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:30:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02358; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:29:54 -0800 Message-Id: <199601312229.OAA02358@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Ron G. Minnich" cc: Sujal Patel , Paul Traina , Paul LaFollette , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 13:59:46 EST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:29:53 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk BTW: We do use the linux sound driver -- Voxware In the early days, XS3 was developed with the full co-operation of Jon Tombs and others from the Linux camp amidst a huge flame war between Linux and *BSD guys. Amancio >>> "Ron G. Minnich" said: > The freebsd/linux cooperation mentioned in these notes is a model of how > we ought to work together. It's nice to see guys, congratulations. This > is great! > > Ron Minnich |" XNFPREP: ERROR 4007: > rminnich@sarnoff.com | Everything in the design was deleted." > (609)-734-3120 |Was it something I said? > ftp://ftp.sarnoff.com/pub/mnfs/www/docs/cluster.html > > > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 14:36:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA19226 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:36:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA19215 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA16530; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:36:23 GMT Message-Id: <199601312236.WAA16530@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Helmut Wirth Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:55:05 +0100." <9601311155.AA16335@zerberus.hai.siemens.co.at> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:36:21 +0000 From: "/home/nbc/.mail.sig" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> To be more specific. It's gcc-2.7.2p-p6. Get the pentium >> patch via Netscape and save it under patches/patch-aa. >> The appended patch save under patches-ab. I've done this, and made the lot, then installed with "make install". The various files have ended up in directories such as; /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/pentium-unknown-freebsd/2.7.2 which seems fair enough. Now, apologies in advance if I've missed something obvious here, but the -mpentium switch is not recognised at all. Thanks in advance, Neil Here's some output from gcc; ----------- vulture% pentium-unknown-freebsd-gcc -v -o fract -mpentium -O3 fract.c Reading specs from /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/pentium-unknown-freebsd/2.7.2/specs gcc version 2.7.2 /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/pentium-unknown-freebsd/2.7.2/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=7 -Dunix -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__ -D__386BSD__ -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__ -D__386BSD__ -D__unix -D__i386 -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) -D__OPTIMIZE__ fract.c /var/tmp/cc016512.i GNU CPP version 2.7.2 (80386, BSD syntax) #include "..." search starts here: #include <...> search starts here: /usr/local/include /usr/local/pentium-unknown-freebsd/include /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/pentium-unknown-freebsd/2.7.2/include /usr/include End of search list. /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/pentium-unknown-freebsd/2.7.2/cc1 /var/tmp/cc016512.i -quiet -dumpbase fract.c -mpentium -O3 -version -o /var/tmp/cc016512.s cc1: Invalid option `pentium' GNU C version 2.7.2 (80386, BSD syntax) compiled by GNU C version 2.7.2. vulture% ------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 15:10:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA22240 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:10:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22222 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA26194; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:11:16 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199601312311.SAA26194@hda.com> Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl (Wilko Bulte) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:11:15 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311849.TAA01221@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Jan 31, 96 07:49:33 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > Apparantly I'm overlooking something because the 2nd disk (LUN1) > > Plain stupid yes, I found the SC_ONE_LU but only changed the first > (==wrong) occurrence of it in scsiconf.c > > Thanks for the hint. I'm not sure what you did. If you changed the T_DIRECT default match to SC_MORE_LUS then all disks will be scanned for 7 luns. This may be fine for you, however you may want to make a specific entry for your ESDI drives - the way the Maxtor has a match - then only that particular drive will be scanned for all luns. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 15:39:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA24777 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24758 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:39:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA03189; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:36:23 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199601311836.SAA03189@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:36:23 +0000 () Cc: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jan 31, 96 10:31:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > Another thing to look into, although I don't have a benchmark on this, but > FreeBSD has a nasty tendency to "bind" during heavy VM/disk activity. I > don't know if this is because the IDE driver is CPU intensive, or if this > affects people (to a lesser extent) with SCSI drives. It's just that when > the system starts paging out to disk, activity in other windows freezes up > too. I have 24MB of RAM on my box at home, and notice this quite often, > which is even more surprising since I don't push my system more than, say, > running a copy of Netscape, emacs, pine, and maybe a compile. > That problem has been fixed in -current, I believe. It was really starting to bug me :-). > Speaking of VM, I set up a system with only 8MB of RAM running FreeBSD, > and even though we made a 24MB swap partition, occasionally it fills up. > Both boxes are running 2.1.0-RELEASE. If it is not too difficult, I > would be REALLY grateful if we could add functionality to add swapfiles > and swap partitions to a running system. You can add swap files, there are people who know how, but you need to use the vn device right now. > Even better would be the > ability to remove the swapfile without rebooting. Linux (and most > SVR4's) have had this functionality for a LONG time. As it is, our BSD > limitation of only swapping to the b slice of any particular partition is > EXTREMELY frustrating in such situations where extra swap is temporarily > needed. Absolutely, you are right, and I am going to add that to my hotlist. Next time I start working on the swap pager and friends (which it really does need to be now, with the VOP_GETPAGES/VOP_PUTPAGES functionality in the system.) John Dyson From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 15:49:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25760 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:49:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25739 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:49:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA30215; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:45:16 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:45:16 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601312345.KAA30215@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Now, of course, the real question - have you tried compiling a complete >> system or kernel with it yet? :-) >A complete make world isn't possible. You'll get many compiler >errors, for example in libc and so on. What I don't understand >is, that the new gcc can't compile sources that are compiled well >by gcc-2.6.3. Surely it has to do with stricter prototyping I >think... The distribution version of 2.6.3 probably couldn't compile FreeBSD either. About 30K of patches are required to convert to the FreeBSD version. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 15:50:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA25975 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:50:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from wiley.csusb.edu (wiley.csusb.edu [139.182.2.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25970 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rmallory@localhost) by wiley.csusb.edu (8.6.11/8.6.11) id PAA13124; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:55:12 -0800 From: Rob Mallory Message-Id: <199601312355.PAA13124@wiley.csusb.edu> Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:55:11 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Jan31.091819est.20485@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Jan 31, 96 09:11:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > > > Has anyone dare to build the stock gcc with this compiler and > > then do a make world. I seem to recollect that Rob Mallory > > stated that the stock gcc recompiled > > with the pentium gcc seems to be smaller and run faster... ...Dont make world with i2.7.0 (mine) or 2.7.2pl6!! it may get preaty far along, but as I mentioned in my previous post, the current state is not too reliable, and produces bogus code at some points. ...trust me, I've done more than a few make worlds, and xfree86 builds with pentium/gcc compilers. [xfree servers with igcc dont work well (only once successfulhere ) but some of the libraries work well and bennefit a bit.] libmsun is one that I deem "igcc safe" and shows significant perf increase. libc is also somewhat safe if you spend some time 'babying' the compile, and ajust compile options. in the kernel, vm stuff is dangerous, scsi/io stuff is ok, many device drivers are sensitive. The only benchmarks I got at one time (that I took the time to try) were disk IO. The compile time speedup (i saw with i270(272p is slower)) was equivilant to the recent -pipe improvement done by john (nice work btw!). I might drop my i2.7.2 patch ball on ftp://tns.csusb.edu later tonight, but I think the i270 stuff is faster, even though it breaks more things. _if you have a pentium and dont want to mess with the gcc's but want to _test mpeg_play, or xv, just grab those. -Rob [rmallory@csusb.edu/rmallory@Qualcomm.com] From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:01:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA26719 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26712 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:01:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id RAA24829 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.cdrom.com; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:01:47 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199602010001.RAA24829@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: 2.1R MAKEDEV patch? To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:01:46 +73700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings! If that which follows makes sense, could someone please commit it? Briefly: - changes the st* devices (raw, norewind and eject) to allow members of the group to write them. Otherwise, owner (root) would be required to perform dumps, etc. - changes the control devices for st* (i.e. st*ctl.*) to prevent anyone BUT the owner from accessing them. This is now consistent with all other *ctl devices in the script. - explicitly chmod the lpctl and pcaudioctl devices to 600 (even though the script's umask causes them to be 600, anyway!) Thx, don -------------------8<--------------8<----------------8<----------------- *** MAKEDEV.orig Wed Jan 31 16:42:28 1996 --- MAKEDEV Wed Jan 31 16:46:59 1996 *************** *** 523,536 **** mknod st${unit}ctl.${mode} c $chr `expr $unit '*' 16 + $mode '*' 4 + 3` chgrp operator rst${unit}.${mode}\ nrst${unit}.${mode} \ erst${unit}.${mode} \ st${unit}ctl.${mode} ! chmod 640 rst${unit}.${mode}\ nrst${unit}.${mode} \ erst${unit}.${mode} ! chmod 660 st${unit}ctl.${mode} done rm -f rst${unit}.ctl mknod rst${unit}.ctl c $chr `expr $unit '*' 16 + $scsictl ` chmod 600 rst${unit}.ctl --- 523,536 ---- mknod st${unit}ctl.${mode} c $chr `expr $unit '*' 16 + $mode '*' 4 + 3` chgrp operator rst${unit}.${mode}\ nrst${unit}.${mode} \ erst${unit}.${mode} \ st${unit}ctl.${mode} ! chmod 660 rst${unit}.${mode}\ nrst${unit}.${mode} \ erst${unit}.${mode} ! chmod 600 st${unit}ctl.${mode} done rm -f rst${unit}.ctl mknod rst${unit}.ctl c $chr `expr $unit '*' 16 + $scsictl ` chmod 600 rst${unit}.ctl *************** *** 654,663 **** --- 654,664 ---- rm -f lpctl$unit mknod lpt$unit c 16 $unit mknod lpctl$unit c 16 `expr $unit + 128` chown root.wheel lpt$unit chown root.wheel lpctl$unit + chmod 600 lptctl$unit ;; tw*) unit=`expr $i : 'tw\(.*\)'` rm -f tw$unit *************** *** 870,879 **** --- 871,881 ---- pcaudio) rm -f pcaudio pcaudioctl mknod pcaudio c 24 0 mknod pcaudioctl c 24 128 chown root.wheel pcaudio pcaudioctl + chmod 600 pcaudioctl ;; socksys) rm -f socksys nfsd spx mknod socksys c 41 0 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:06:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27112 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:06:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (aspen.woc.atinc.com [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27106 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:06:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA26288; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:05:29 -0500 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:05:28 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: Guido van Rooij , "John S. Dyson" , dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) In-Reply-To: <29432.823120639@time.cdrom.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > The old hacker shoes ;-) Look at the berkeley daemon at the `free the > > 4.4bsd'. They are open wooden shoes (no cloggies). Here in Hgolland often > > worn by nurses. > > And at Berkeley, just about everybody else who was to the left of Nixon. :-) besides Curtis LeMay, who was to the right of Nixon? Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:08:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27255 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27243 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id KAA30850; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:58:46 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:58:46 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199601312358.KAA30850@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.org, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > The "FreeBSD gadget": ... > 10, 100 or 250 Mhz timer, with readable count, > generates IRQ 20/100/250 (jumper) times a second. > (For microtime) (Maybe even with a 10/11 swallow > counter along the lines the XNTP people suggest.) 64-bit readable count with fast (32-bit) access. Single programmable IRQ - interrupt when count reaches a programmable value. ... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:14:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA27713 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:14:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27707 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15233(8)>; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:13:38 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA20869; Wed, 31 Jan 96 19:13:35 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA06431; Wed, 31 Jan 96 19:13:33 EST Message-Id: <9602010013.AA06431@gnu.mc.xerox.com> To: Ollivier Robert Cc: dyson@freefall.freebsd.org (John Dyson), jerry@border.com, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, toor@dyson.iquest.net, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Jan 1996 23:42:42 PST." <199601310742.IAA14787@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:13:28 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I used to work with a good programmer (actually a physicist/mathematician -- Al Loeb] who showed me a piece of the analog computers they had on the guns off some battleship in WWII he was on in the Pacific... They made pretty amazing stuff... marty From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:39:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA28993 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:39:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28982 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA12119 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:39:35 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA24303 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:39:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id BAA23610 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:27:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010027.BAA23610@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: hackers ages To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:27:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601312019.OAA17630@Colossus.dptek.com> from "Jack Bone" at Jan 31, 96 02:13:32 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jack Bone wrote: > > I quess that I'll bias the curve a bit more, I have 30 yr.s in this > field, I'll be 54 in a few days. FreeBSD is the best OS since IBM > 1800 TSX (1966) and IBM Series/1 EDX (1976) Wow! :-) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:45:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29480 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:45:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29472 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:45:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20495; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:29:39 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010059.LAA20495@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:29:38 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 09:32:40 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion > for a ISA card: > > The "FreeBSD gadget": > > Watchdog, can be set to timouts of 1s, 10s and 60s or > something. Will launch a RESET, NMI, or IRQ (jumper). This is (relatively) easy. Dennis is lying about his markup (he's not completely stupid 8), but anything more than _really_ stupid gets expensive fast. > 10, 100 or 250 Mhz timer, with readable count, > generates IRQ 20/100/250 (jumper) times a second. > (For microtime) (Maybe even with a 10/11 swallow > counter along the lines the XNTP people suggest.) 250MHz? Ouch 8) Still, not hard, and would coexist quite happily with the former. However, it wouldn't solve the basic problem, as we couldn't ask people to buy one before running FreeBSD 8) > NVram for console. 64K of NVram (preferrably FIFO), > for console-messages, not affected by reset. > > Optional: A microcontroller to make a async console > with the above nvram. (incl modem handling and passwd) > Possibly even with a BIOS-eprom to even make the bios > available that way. Hmm. There it starts to get messy. Certainly not impossible though, but making it work _well_ might be tough. I see two models; one, where the kernel handshaked every byte into the card, and another with a FIFO (512 bytes?) decoupling the two. Giving the CPU direct access to the NV on the card would be a bad idea. Would you want to be able to read the messages back? (Silly question 8) > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) Yeow! That would have to be a PCI card for performance to be acceptable, and you'd basically end up making a Prestoserv card. Sorry, don't have the resources for that 8( > I'm not going to make it, I'm SW only, but I'd buy a couple right away. I see three cards there; the el-cheapo reset card, the buffered console card and the Presto card. > Any takers ? *sigh* > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:48:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29596 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:48:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29588 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:47:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id BAA12353 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:47:46 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id BAA24396 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:47:46 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id BAA24005 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:43:34 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010043.BAA24005@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:43:34 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 09:32:40 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: > > The "FreeBSD gadget": > > Watchdog, can be set to timouts of 1s, 10s and 60s or > something. Will launch a RESET, NMI, or IRQ (jumper). NMI, 5 minutes later RESET. Gives the kernel a chance to coredump. Don't forget to add a small BIOS ROM that disables the watchdog during ROM SCAN, just in case. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:49:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA29768 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA29756 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:49:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20513; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:31:12 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010101.LAA20513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:31:12 +1030 (CST) Cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601311821.LAA10154@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 31, 96 11:21:01 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > The host driver code will be available in source form. It has been > > available for Linux for about 12 months now. The slave (that is download) > > code will only be available in binary. It was just easier to use Stallions > > standard image, since it has just about everything you will ever need to > > do in it. And in any case most people will not have the tools to build it... > > What are the distribution terms on this image? More importantly, is the interface to this image well defined and available? No slight on Gerg, but I can imagine a number of core members who will indubitably want to tinker 8) -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 16:58:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA00394 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:58:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA00382 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 16:58:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20566; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:41:25 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010111.LAA20566@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:41:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601311608.LAA16772@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Jan 31, 96 11:08:35 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk dennis stands accused of saying: > >Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). > >(My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). > > > >> Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > > Ours are $139 Q5....figure out the cost recovery and you'd have to > need a hundred to break even......I dont even market them 'cause > theres no margin at that price. Either you hand-assemble them yourself and have a high opinion of your time's value, or your fab agency is ripping you. The card should be the length of an 8-bit slot and about an inch high ($20 in low quantities), it should contain about $10 in parts (and here I admit that I don't know how fancy your card's design is), and cost about $30 to load and test (presuming that you you allow ~10 mins to load and another 10 to test, which is generous.) At $140, that's ~$80 for margin and overheads, which is a reasonable price depending on how many you move. Just don't cry poor about it, ok? 8) > db -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 17:05:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA01086 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA01076 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:05:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA20591; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:45:42 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010115.LAA20591@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:45:41 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311739.LAA07197@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Jan 31, 96 11:39:58 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). > > (My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). > > Hmm. This goes along with one of my other "wish list" items that I've been > meaning to work on "someday"... a built-in POST code decoder. These are already available, and incredibly trivial to implement. _decoding_ the POST codes is a little tougher. > Now before you write me off as crazy, let me explain further... I don't > know how many of us had seen IBM's PC-RT from the late '80's, but one nice > feature it had was a POST code display on the front panel. Useful for > debugging. However, once AOS (IBM's 4.3BSD UNIX) was up and running, > something cute happened: UNIX started putting out the current load average > on the POST display. This tended to give a really warm fuzzy about what was > happening (or not happening) on the box, and when you have a machine room > with a dozen systems racked and stacked it would be nice to have it. > A POST code reader was described a few years back in one of the > computer/electronics rags, and I still have a copy of it. Basically a > GAL(?) or two tossed on a PC card. > > Just another nice feature missing from your average PC. Wanna build an > "all-in-one" card? :-) *sigh* Surface area costs (lots). So far the wish list is : - Watchdog. - High-resolution timer. - POST decoder. - NV console buffer. (- Prestoserv. *laugh*) Anything else people want? Maybe a soft-serve interface? 8) > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 17:35:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03243 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from yokogawa.co.jp (yhqfm.yokogawa.co.jp [202.33.29.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03236 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sjc.yokogawa.co.jp.yokogawa.co.jp ([133.140.4.100]) by yokogawa.co.jp (8.6.9+2.4Wb3/3.3Wb4-firewall:08/09/94) with ESMTP id KAA03204; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:33:32 +0900 Received: from leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp by sjc.yokogawa.co.jp.yokogawa.co.jp (8.7.1+2.6Wbeta4/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA-R/GW) id KAA01877; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:33:31 +0900 (JST) Received: from cabbage by leia.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.8/6.4J.6-YOKOGAWA/pa) id AA21252; Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:33:31 +0900 Received: by cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp (16.6/3.3Wb) id AA10287; Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:34:49 +0900 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:34:49 +0900 From: Mihoko Tanaka Message-Id: <9602010134.AA10287@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> To: terry@lambert.org Cc: jerry@border.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: Terry Lambert's message of Wed, 31 Jan 1996 14:00:20 -0700 (MST) <199601312100.OAA10547@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Compaq 16MB limit... Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Problem: When a Compaq has 64 Meg DRAM in it, BSDI does not see it all. >>> It only see's 16Meg.. The BIOS say's hat there is 64 BUT BSDI says 16.. >>> >>> I have been told that FreeBSD has fixed this somehow... Can somebody >>> please tell me 'approx' which files to look at in the kernel source >>> code to see how it was done ???? >> >>Compaq and Dell have decided that their historical misuse of a couple >>of CMOS bits constitutes "acceptable practice". As a result, the max >>memory you see when you query the CMOS is 16M (or 32M for non-bogus >>machines). >> >>The POST reports the RAM correctly because the BIOS can be written to >>use hardware specific mechanisms to report the RAM. >> >>There is no documented API to return the amount of RAM in a machine >>other than CMOS. There is no BIOS routine that can be used by the >>boot blocks to overcome this limit, nor does the POST place the results >>of its test or expose a ROM routine for sizing memory. I asked a engineer of COMPAQ about it last month. He said that we can use the following BIOS call for getting the amount of RAM in a machine. ------------------------ cut cut cut --------------------------------- INT 15h AX=E801h ---- GET SUPER EXTENDED MEMORY INFORMATION Descriptoin: This function returns the amount of extended memory (1M-16M) and super extended memory (>16M) installed and configured in the system. To perform this call from 32-bit protected mode, use function E881h. Entry: AX=E801h Return: AX = KB of extended memory installed. BX = 64KB segments of super extended memory installed. CX = KB of extended memory configured. DX = 64KB segments of super extended memory configured. ROMs: 386N LTE Lite20, LTE Lite 25 386N1 Contura 20, Contura 25, Contura 25c 386N2 LTE Lite 25c, LTE Lite 25e 486N1 Contura 4/25 486N2 LTE Lite 4/25c 486N3 386E3 Portable 486c, Portable 486 386A DP 3/25i, DP 3/33i, DP 4/25i, DP 4/33i 386A1 DPifamily 486A DP XE 5xx 486A1 DP XE 4xx 386C Prolinea 3/24zx, Prolinea 3/25 386C1 Prolinea 4/33 386C2 Prolinea 4/50 486C Presario/Prolinea 486C1 Presario/Prolinea 486C2 Presario/Prolinea 486Z Presario/Prolinea 486Z1 Presario/Prolinea 486T Concerto 486S Aero 486W DP XL ------------------------ cut cut cut --------------------------------- But this BIOS call is only for COMPAQ. We cannot use it for another machine. >>FreeBSD "fixes" this problem by allowing you to mandate the amount of >>RAM in the machine and force it to ignore the (standard) CMOS mechanism >>for sizing RAM. See /sys/i386/conf/LINT for details. >> >> >>UnixWare fixes this by allowing you to make a one line entry in a >>configuration file in the /stand "bootfs" partition -- it's similar >>to the FreeBSD "fix", except that you don't have to rebuild the kernel. BSD/OS fixes it by testing for memory (starting at 2MB, and continuing at most to 2GB) in the boot program, or by allowing you to use a configuration file. -- Mihoko Tanaka From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 17:36:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA03321 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:36:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA03287 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 17:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA20860; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:19:37 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010149.MAA20860@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:19:37 +1030 (CST) Cc: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jake Hamby" at Jan 31, 96 10:31:56 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Jake Hamby stands accused of saying: > > Another thing to look into, although I don't have a benchmark on this, but > FreeBSD has a nasty tendency to "bind" during heavy VM/disk activity. I > don't know if this is because the IDE driver is CPU intensive, or if this > affects people (to a lesser extent) with SCSI drives. It's just that when > the system starts paging out to disk, activity in other windows freezes up > too. I have 24MB of RAM on my box at home, and notice this quite often, > which is even more surprising since I don't push my system more than, say, > running a copy of Netscape, emacs, pine, and maybe a compile. This is a combination of IDE, and the X server being blocked on a pagefault that can't be serviced immediately because others are. Netscape is a real evil; it's not at all hard for it to eat >10M with only one browser open (remember the X server grows too). > Speaking of VM, I set up a system with only 8MB of RAM running FreeBSD, > and even though we made a 24MB swap partition, occasionally it fills up. > Both boxes are running 2.1.0-RELEASE. If it is not too difficult, I > would be REALLY grateful if we could add functionality to add swapfiles > and swap partitions to a running system. Even better would be the You can. See 'swapon' and 'vnconfig'. > ability to remove the swapfile without rebooting. Linux (and most That's not so easy. > SVR4's) have had this functionality for a LONG time. As it is, our BSD > limitation of only swapping to the b slice of any particular partition is > EXTREMELY frustrating in such situations where extra swap is temporarily > needed. Where is this limitation? You can swap anywhere you like. > ---Jake -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 18:00:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA05330 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:00:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05316 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:00:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA11627; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:58:05 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602010158.SAA11627@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) To: jmb@freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:58:05 +73700 (MST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, guido@gvr.win.tue.nl, toor@dyson.iquest.net, dyson@freefall.freebsd.org, jerry@border.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Jan 31, 96 07:05:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > And at Berkeley, just about everybody else who was to the left of Nixon. :-) > > besides Curtis LeMay, who was to the right of Nixon? Senator Joseph McCarthy. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 18:04:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA05732 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:04:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05724 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA03583; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:57:42 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:57:42 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010157.MAA03583@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jehamby@lightside.com, peter@jhome.DIALix.COM Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Both boxes are running 2.1.0-RELEASE. If it is not too difficult, I >would be REALLY grateful if we could add functionality to add swapfiles >and swap partitions to a running system. Even better would be the This is standard functionality in 2.1. Use the vn driver for files... >ability to remove the swapfile without rebooting. Linux (and most >SVR4's) have had this functionality for a LONG time. As it is, our BSD Still missing. >limitation of only swapping to the b slice of any particular partition is >EXTREMELY frustrating in such situations where extra swap is temporarily >needed. 2.1 doesn't have this limitation. I spent a minute checking this in -current :-). Result: Device 1024-blocks Used Avail Capacity Type /dev/wd0b 33280 1512 31704 5% Interleaved /dev/vn0h 2048 1472 512 74% Interleaved Total 35200 2984 32216 8% This is for a fully labeled vn0 (vn0h is a bogus alias for vn0b if labels aren't enabled). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 18:12:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06390 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:12:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06382 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:12:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id TAA11652; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:09:03 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602010209.TAA11652@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Compaq 16MB limit... To: m_tanaka@pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Mihoko Tanaka) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:09:02 +73700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jerry@border.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <9602010134.AA10287@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> from "Mihoko Tanaka" at Feb 1, 96 10:34:49 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >>There is no documented API to return the amount of RAM in a machine > >>other than CMOS. There is no BIOS routine that can be used by the > >>boot blocks to overcome this limit, nor does the POST place the results > >>of its test or expose a ROM routine for sizing memory. > > I asked a engineer of COMPAQ about it last month. > He said that we can use the following BIOS call for getting the > amount of RAM in a machine. [ ... Compaq BIOS call that probably won't work in protected mode ... ] > BSD/OS fixes it by testing for memory (starting at 2MB, and > continuing at most to 2GB) in the boot program, or by allowing you > to use a configuration file. We used to test for memory too. It made some computers reboot when you accessed bad pysical memory locations. Notably, Compaq. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 18:12:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA06449 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06425 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:12:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA04215; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:10:55 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:10:55 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010210.NAA04215@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Subject: Re: Problem with 2.1-stable unistd.h? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Something is weird around line 53 in unistd.h, with the __dead2 declaration. >I was trying to build the new bind, and it barfs on that line, and the >line doesn't look good. `bind' probably replaced the system header that defines __dead2. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 19:08:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15036 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:08:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA14876 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:08:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA21412; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:51:42 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010321.NAA21412@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Willows To: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:51:42 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311748.MAA19097@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> from "chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu" at Jan 31, 96 12:48:08 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu stands accused of saying: > > Any word on a port to freebsd of willows TWIN XPDK for UNIX? > I would *very* much like to try it out and the word was that there was > going to be a port (presumably be willows). There was noise about how on 31/1 the source would be available. It's 1/2 here, and still no source visible 8) Seriously, register for FTP access, and send them a mail to mention that you want to use it under FreeBSD. Jordan can politik, but groundswell support will make his case a lot easier. http://www.willows.com/ > Charles Green, PRC Inc. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 19:19:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA15853 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:19:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA15840 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA07238; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:17:02 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:17:02 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010317.OAA07238@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2.1R MAKEDEV patch? Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > - changes the st* devices (raw, norewind and eject) to allow members > of the group to write them. Otherwise, owner (root) would be required > to perform dumps, etc. > - changes the control devices for st* (i.e. st*ctl.*) to prevent anyone > BUT the owner from accessing them. This is now consistent with all > other *ctl devices in the script. This is in -current. Someone should copy it to -stable after it has been tested a bit. > - explicitly chmod the lpctl and pcaudioctl devices to 600 (even though > the script's umask causes them to be 600, anyway!) No, the umask is reliable and is relied on in many other places. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 19:33:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA17158 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17145 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02259; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:32:41 -0800 (PST) To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:32:40 +0100." <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:32:41 -0800 Message-ID: <2257.823145561@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion > for a ISA card: If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not simply add a low-cost CPU and a serial port to it? Then you could also hook an external modem to it and use it as a full-blown dial-in diagnostic port for stopping the system in its tracks and sniffing around (or poking at the corpse). I'd imagine the costs of laying out and fabricating the boards would add such a "knee" in the cost curve that another $100 in parts for several orders of magnitude's worth of extra potential functionality would be a more than reasonable trade off. Pyramid did/does something like this for their RISC monsters. They have a 68K machine driving a color console which provides the fanciest interface for grubbing around in the internals of a machine/UNIX OS that I've ever seen! The only drawback to theirs was that they didn't really document how to get down and dirty with the 68K system (for obvious reasons, I guess) so you couldn't really use it as an OS developers tool, but I rather doubt that any FreeBSD related project would make the same mistake. :-) Needless to say, it would also run FORTH. :-) Jordan > > The "FreeBSD gadget": > > Watchdog, can be set to timouts of 1s, 10s and 60s or > something. Will launch a RESET, NMI, or IRQ (jumper). > > 10, 100 or 250 Mhz timer, with readable count, > generates IRQ 20/100/250 (jumper) times a second. > (For microtime) (Maybe even with a 10/11 swallow > counter along the lines the XNTP people suggest.) > > NVram for console. 64K of NVram (preferrably FIFO), > for console-messages, not affected by reset. > > Optional: A microcontroller to make a async console > with the above nvram. (incl modem handling and passwd) > Possibly even with a BIOS-eprom to even make the bios > available that way. > > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) > > Now, if produced in some decent quantity, the price might be right... > > How many ISP's would buy one ? > > I'm not going to make it, I'm SW only, but I'd buy a couple right away. > > Any takers ? > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. > whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, In c. > Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 19:40:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA17794 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:40:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17788 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:40:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02275; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:38:13 -0800 (PST) To: "John S. Dyson" cc: jehamby@lightside.com (Jake Hamby), peter@jhome.DIALix.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 18:36:23 GMT." <199601311836.SAA03189@dyson.iquest.net> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:38:13 -0800 Message-ID: <2273.823145893@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Absolutely, you are right, and I am going to add that to my hotlist. Next Yay! Could it be that I'll have to stop bothering David with my annual whine about this? It's become such a tradition! Whatever will I do? :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 19:53:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA18645 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:53:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18623 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:53:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id TAA05268; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:52:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010352.TAA05268@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Bruce Evans cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, jkh@time.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:45:16 +1100." <199601312345.KAA30215@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 19:52:30 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> Bruce Evans said: > The distribution version of 2.6.3 probably couldn't compile FreeBSD > either. About 30K of patches are required to convert to the FreeBSD > version. > > Bruce So did we roll back any of the FreeBSD required patches to the FSF?? Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 20:02:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19418 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:02:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19412 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:02:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA05356; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:01:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010401.UAA05356@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 12:37:20 EST." <199601311737.MAA16999@etinc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:01:46 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> dennis said: > >> >> One of the Europeans (Joerg? Soren?) built a card. > >> > > >> >Emerging Technologies has a pricey but (apparently) flexible watchdog ca rd, > >> >as I recall it was around $200. > >> > >> This is $169......its on our ET/5025 sync board at no addtional cost if y ou > >> happen to need > >> one of those. There is a driver for FreeBSD and a development kit with a > sample > >> app if you want to incorporate it into an appliction or script. > >> > >> dennis > > > >Sorry, when you first announced it, it was $195 qty 1. > > > >This is still really a little more than I'd like to pay. I realize it cost s > >you to build these things and I'm not faulting you for it, I'm just saying > >that it is not worth that much to me. > > Doesnt matter...dont make enough on it to really care, even at 195. But i > find it > interesting that someone would be willing to spend the time to build one if > they only needed a handful. You've already spent more on time thinking about > it then you'll save! > BTW: this is a hacker's mailing list almost by definition we don't make much sense financially. However, if there is even a hint at people wanting to branch off into doing hardware, I would considered this fantastic! Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 20:06:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19628 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:06:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from hemi.com (hemi.com [204.132.158.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19622 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mbarkah@localhost) by hemi.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA27555 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:06:48 -0700 From: Ade Barkah Message-Id: <199602010406.VAA27555@hemi.com> Subject: Paper on writing network driver To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:06:47 +73700 (MST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, Can someone point me to a paper/discussion/text/anything regarding writing a network device driver for FreeBSD ? I'd like to learn this area of the operating system, by looking at an existing driver and re-implementing it. In particular, I'd like to muck with either the 3com driver (if_ep) or the SMC driver (if_ed) because those are the two ethernet cards I have. Also, I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could point me to specific programming documentation for either the 3com or the SMC (preferably the 3com, I have an ISA 509-combo), or any other documentation to aid me in learning the current source codes. Thanks in advance, -Ade -------------------------------------------------------------------- Inet: mbarkah@hemi.com - HEMISPHERE ONLINE - www: -------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 20:25:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20366 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:25:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au (dawes@suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au [129.78.129.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20353 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:25:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dawes@localhost) by suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA17613; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:24:56 +1100 From: David Dawes Message-Id: <199602010424.PAA17613@suphys.physics.usyd.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:24:55 +1100 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010115.LAA20591@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 1, 96 11:45:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Just another nice feature missing from your average PC. Wanna build an >> "all-in-one" card? :-) > >*sigh* Surface area costs (lots). > >So far the wish list is : > >- Watchdog. >- High-resolution timer. >- POST decoder. >- NV console buffer. > >(- Prestoserv. *laugh*) > >Anything else people want? Maybe a soft-serve interface? 8) :-) An over-temperature sensor (but you'd want that to be able to cut the power). David From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 20:32:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20810 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20742 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 20:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA10372; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:21:59 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:21:59 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010421.PAA10372@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: bde@zeta.org.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, hackers@freebsd.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, ports@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The distribution version of 2.6.3 probably couldn't compile FreeBSD > > either. About 30K of patches are required to convert to the FreeBSD > > version. >So did we roll back any of the FreeBSD required patches to the FSF?? Not yet. Many are local and/or poorly done so they shouldn't have been accepted by FSF. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:03:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22557 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:03:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22552 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:03:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id XAA07493 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:02:56 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id XAA28690; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:04:11 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602010504.XAA28690@solaria.sol.net> Subject: No SCSI recovery - yet another gripe To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 23:04:08 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This is the second time this week my news box has frozen with a SCSI error of some sort on the screen. This time: ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out sd23(aha1:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. ahc1:A:3: no active SCB for reconnecting target - issuing ABORT SAVED_TCL = 0x30 ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out _ The SCSI system works GREAT when all is fine and dandy. However, this sort of error "recovery" sucks - a panic and reboot is preferable to a dead freeze. In all reality I believe it has something to do with the relative reliability of drive power connectors and the likelihood that all 14 of them that are on news.sol.net work perfectly is less than 100%... so I will tackle the problem from a hardware standpoint, as I believe that the source is a loose power connection somewhere. On the other hand, consider this a plea for the SCSI gods to improve the error handling somehow! I hear great games talked on -hackers and all, layered device independent error handling, etc... a free beer to the person(s) who implement(s) it. ;-) For kicks, I have been known to take a SCSI disk and unplug it from a Solaris based system while the system is running. The grace with which it attempts to deal with the crisis is admirable. Sometimes the system even continues to work if I plug the drive back in... :-) I don't expect that anybody has the time or effort to spare to implement error recovery to this sort of level, but the current "lock'n'hang" is a little too far to the opposite extreme... Thanks and good evening, ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:09:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA22924 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:09:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA22911 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:09:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id WAA21459; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:08:31 -0700 Message-Id: <199602010508.WAA21459@rover.village.org> To: bugs@freebsd.netcom.com (Mark Hittinger) Subject: Re: Hackers ages Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 Jan 1996 09:56:45 CST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:08:30 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting : to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other : OS. Careful, at 29 I might pull the curve down :-) Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:24:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA23932 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:24:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23920 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:24:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA19488; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:21:47 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199602010521.AAA19488@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:21:46 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <199602010115.LAA20591@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 1, 96 11:45:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > > Now before you write me off as crazy, let me explain further... I don't > > know how many of us had seen IBM's PC-RT from the late '80's, but one nice > > feature it had was a POST code display on the front panel. Useful for > > debugging. However, once AOS (IBM's 4.3BSD UNIX) was up and running, > > something cute happened: UNIX started putting out the current load average > > on the POST display. This tended to give a really warm fuzzy about what was > > happening (or not happening) on the box, and when you have a machine room > > with a dozen systems racked and stacked it would be nice to have it. > > A POST code reader was described a few years back in one of the Boy. I'd love that on my AIX machines... the leds just go blank after booting. Actually an add-on 11/70 front panel would be even nicer 8-). Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:25:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA24001 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:25:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23989 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:25:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602010525.VAA23989@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No SCSI recovery - yet another gripe In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:04:08 CST." <199602010504.XAA28690@solaria.sol.net> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:25:17 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >This is the second time this week my news box has frozen with a SCSI error >of some sort on the screen. This time: > >ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out >sd23(aha1:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. >ahc1:A:3: no active SCB for reconnecting target - issuing ABORT >SAVED_TCL = 0x30 >ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out Yup. The error recovery code in the aic7xxx driver is especially bad because it has not been updated to match the recent stability fixes in the driver. >The SCSI system works GREAT when all is fine and dandy. However, this sort >of error "recovery" sucks - a panic and reboot is preferable to a dead >freeze. Agreed. >On the other hand, consider this a >plea for the SCSI gods to improve the error handling somehow! I hear great >games talked on -hackers and all, layered device independent error handling, >etc... a free beer to the person(s) who implement(s) it. ;-) This will happen before 2.2 ships. PowerPoint is nearing code complete, so my time is limited for for another 7 days or so, but after that, my nights will be devoted to these problems. The entire generic SCSI layer is in for a revamp with extra detail going toward error recovery and performance. >For kicks, I have been known to take a SCSI disk and unplug it from a >Solaris based system while the system is running. The grace with which it >attempts to deal with the crisis is admirable. Sometimes the system even >continues to work if I plug the drive back in... :-) I don't expect that >anybody has the time or effort to spare to implement error recovery to this >sort of level, We need this level of robustness in order to be taken seriously IMHO. As they say, "shit happens" on SCSI busses as well as as in real life. Luckily we can anticipate what kinds of things will hit the fan with SCSI and hopefully do everything possible to recover. My main concern is sufficient driver level documentation to make the error recovery reliable. I have all I need for the Adaptec aic7xxx cards since I control the firmware (Stephan I'm sure is in the same boat with the NCR), but for cards like the Buslogic and Ultrastore, I just don't know how well we can do. >but the current "lock'n'hang" is a little too far to the >opposite extreme... No disagreement here. > >Thanks and good evening, > >... Joe > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:47:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25091 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25085 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA19914; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:46:56 -0800 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:46:55 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: No SCSI recovery - yet another gripe In-Reply-To: <199602010504.XAA28690@solaria.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Justin mentioned one time that he was working on the recovery code. It's doing the same thing for me as well. On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Joe Greco wrote: > This is the second time this week my news box has frozen with a SCSI error > of some sort on the screen. This time: > > ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out > sd23(aha1:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. > ahc1:A:3: no active SCB for reconnecting target - issuing ABORT > SAVED_TCL = 0x30 > ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out > _ > > The SCSI system works GREAT when all is fine and dandy. However, this sort > of error "recovery" sucks - a panic and reboot is preferable to a dead > freeze. > > In all reality I believe it has something to do with the relative > reliability of drive power connectors and the likelihood that all 14 of them > that are on news.sol.net work perfectly is less than 100%... so I will > tackle the problem from a hardware standpoint, as I believe that the source > is a loose power connection somewhere. On the other hand, consider this a > plea for the SCSI gods to improve the error handling somehow! I hear great > games talked on -hackers and all, layered device independent error handling, > etc... a free beer to the person(s) who implement(s) it. ;-) > > For kicks, I have been known to take a SCSI disk and unplug it from a > Solaris based system while the system is running. The grace with which it > attempts to deal with the crisis is admirable. Sometimes the system even > continues to work if I plug the drive back in... :-) I don't expect that > anybody has the time or effort to spare to implement error recovery to this > sort of level, but the current "lock'n'hang" is a little too far to the > opposite extreme... > > Thanks and good evening, > > ... Joe > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net > Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 > From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:50:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25370 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.55]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25285 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:49:14 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id VAA13802; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:45 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010547.VAA13802@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:47:45 +73600 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 31, 96 03:34:52 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > . There is mirroring support Cool. I've been wanting this for some time. In fact, I'm going to pick up a second SCSI controller for the sole purpose of testing the ccd stuff. I've got a wide variety of SCSI disks to try it out with. I'll do my damndest to break it and report back to you. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 21:52:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA25596 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25582 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:52:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA22783; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:36:25 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010606.QAA22783@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:36:25 +1030 (CST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <2257.823145561@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 31, 96 07:32:41 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not simply add a > low-cost CPU and a serial port to it? Then you could also hook an 68SEC811E2 would be my choice (for obvious reasons 8). You still need a fair amount of hardware to bridge this to the ISA bus. > external modem to it and use it as a full-blown dial-in diagnostic > port for stopping the system in its tracks and sniffing around (or > poking at the corpse). I'd imagine the costs of laying out and > fabricating the boards would add such a "knee" in the cost curve that > another $100 in parts for several orders of magnitude's worth of extra > potential functionality would be a more than reasonable trade off. $100 in parts would buy you far more than what you're talking about there 8) > Pyramid did/does something like this for their RISC monsters. They Indeed. Anyone know anything about the trailblazers they used? (I have one gathering dust somewhere; RMM1800 if I remember correctly 8) > have a 68K machine driving a color console which provides the fanciest > interface for grubbing around in the internals of a machine/UNIX OS > that I've ever seen! The only drawback to theirs was that they didn't Hmm, I'd offer the Multimax diagnostics as another winner; they even went so far as to mandate a VT100 emulation that did 132 columns. Unless someone knows where Thomas Westbom is these days, I don't think we'll get that onto this card 8) > Needless to say, it would also run FORTH. :-) Now _that_ is a gratuitous waste of money. The 811 already lets you burn it on the fly, what more could you want? 8) > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 22:07:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA26479 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:07:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA26471 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:07:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA21627; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:06:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199602010606.XAA21627@rover.village.org> To: Terry Lambert Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 31 Jan 1996 15:07:44 MST Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:06:46 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk : The LCD display on Dell boxes was programmed by the 386BSD 0.1 boot to : say something like "GO!!!". I can't rememebr for sure. The old Solbourne S4000 machine had a place you could plug in a device to decode the POST, or other status messages. When it was at the rom prompt waiting for input, it would say FEED and then FACE and then repeat. vmunix did something boring: 8000 0800 0080 0008 :-(. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 22:31:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA28171 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:31:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from argus.flash.net (root@argus.flash.net [206.149.25.12]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA28164 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 22:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lists@localhost) by argus.flash.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA05865; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:30:13 -0600 From: mailing list account Message-Id: <199602010630.AAA05865@argus.flash.net> Subject: Re: Hackers ages To: imp@village.org (Warner Losh) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:30:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010508.WAA21459@rover.village.org> from "Warner Losh" at Jan 31, 96 10:08:30 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In reply: > : Nice to see all these old fossils still twitching :-) 39 here. Interesting > : to find out that the average FreeBSD'er age might be more than that other > : OS. > > Careful, at 29 I might pull the curve down :-) > > Warner Just blew the curve: 28 - 1 month... Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.flash.net - FlashNet Communications - Ft. Worth, Texas From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:22:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01133 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:22:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (bakul@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01128 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:22:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id XAA06480; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:21:49 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010721.XAA06480@netcom22.netcom.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 96 23:21:48 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk May be one of those single board computers (aka SBC) built around a 286 will do the trick? 2ser+1par+memory+cpu etc. are all on an ISA card and you can plug one or more of these in an ISA `passive backplane'. If you are in the SF Bay area you can look into the Microtimes for ads from people who make `industrial computers'. `Multi-micro systems' comes to mind. Another alternative is to use a robotics board like a `miniboard' or a `handyboard'. Both are designed by Fred Martin of MIT Media Labs. Handyboard has 32K battery backed SRAM. Other than that they are fairly similar. They are based on mc68hc11 which is an 8 bitter with on chip EEROM (or PROM) + some RAM, timers, serial I/O, 8 analog inputs, many digital input/outputs etc. With suitable sensors you can measure/monitor all sorts of things. I'd hook up one of these boards to the reset switch + a spare parallel port + and add a temp. switch or a thermistor to monitor temperature, add power line monitoring circuit (and stuff to switch to a backup power supply under program control), may be even a sensor to verify that the power supply fan is spinning (stopped fan due to dirt is how some machines heat up and die). The parallel port can be used as a console + can be programmed to provide a heart beat. The serial port can be hooked to a modem or terminal server for remote debugging and diagnostics. Since this board will be running from a separate power supply and is *very* tolerant of power supply voltage range, a hosed computer won't crash it (unlike an ISA based board). Heck, you can even get FORTH for the hc11 from Motorola :-) FTP to cher.media.mit.edu and poke around there to learn more about these two boards. Hang around comp.robotics.misc for a few days/weeks and someone will surely offer a kit or or complain about some such kit :-) Quite a few companies sell hc11 based boards. Probably any such board will do. All that is required is for someone to package it all up for the care and feeding of a computer. From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:27:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01368 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:27:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.77]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01324 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:41 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA00414; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:10 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010725.XAA00414@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: stable@freebsd.org Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:25:10 +73600 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199601311134.DAA07361@silvia.HIP.Berkeley.EDU> from "Satoshi Asami" at Jan 31, 96 03:34:52 am Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > . ccdconfig is now in /sbin (so you can call it from rc -- a patch to > rc is also included) I believe that it also should be statically linked so that it'll actually work before ld.so is available - the current Makefile options don't do this. Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:34:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA02275 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA02229 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA19175; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:29:04 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:29:04 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010729.SAA19175@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jkh@time.cdrom.com, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion >> for a ISA card: >If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not simply add a >low-cost CPU and a serial port to it? Then you could also hook an Even simpler: use a not-so-low-cost dual P5 system :-). Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:40:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA02727 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA02680 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:40:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA25589 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:39:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199602010739.IAA25589@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 To: pst@cisco.com (Paul Traina) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 8:35:18 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601312138.NAA21667@puli.cisco.com>; from "Paul Traina" at Jan 31, 96 1:38 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) > There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're running > under. > > #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H > #include > #endif > > #if defined(BSD) && (BSD >= datecode) > ... > #endif > > This gives us much finer grained control. How does this distinguish between BSD/OS, NetBSD and FreeBSD? How does it distinguish between FreeBSD 2.1 and FreeBSD 2.2? What this really tells you is what version of the compiler or header files you have. I think that the gcc *should* define bsd4_4 (or similar). There's plenty of software out there which doesn't care which 4.4BSD-derived system you're running, and this would help, just like __386bsd__ used to be useful. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:51:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03328 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:51:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from puli.cisco.com (puli.cisco.com [171.69.1.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03304 Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by puli.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) with SMTP id XAA11280; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:50:36 -0800 Message-Id: <199602010750.XAA11280@puli.cisco.com> To: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 08:35:18 +0700." <199602010739.IAA25585@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:50:36 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk From: Greg Lehey Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 > > I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) > There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're runnin >>g > under. > > #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H > #include > #endif > > #if defined(BSD) && (BSD >= datecode) > ... > #endif > > This gives us much finer grained control. How does this distinguish between BSD/OS, NetBSD and FreeBSD? How does it distinguish between FreeBSD 2.1 and FreeBSD 2.2? What this really tells you is what version of the compiler or header files you have. The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish us from NetBSD and BSD/OS. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really 4.4 and later distinctions and should use the BSD define. That's why you should use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what everyone decided on as the STANDARD way to do this. If you gratuitously define bsd4_4 in the compiler and have programs rely on it, then you're not doing anyone any favors. I know, it's a pain in the ass to use the method I mentioned (see quote above), but it's correct. When you need to get finer grained than the standard, then use: __NetBSD__ __FreeBSD__ or __FreeBSD__== or bsdi I think that the gcc *should* define bsd4_4 (or similar). There's plenty of software out there which doesn't care which 4.4BSD-derived system you're running, and this would help, just like __386bsd__ used to be useful. We're in violent agreement about your second sentence, disagreement about your first. The "portable" method has already been defined, and it's not the one you chose. I don't like it either, but I live with it. Sorry, Paul From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:52:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03461 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:52:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03452 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:52:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id IAA26779 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:52:06 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id IAA27188 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:52:05 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id IAA25596 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:48:28 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010748.IAA25596@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:48:27 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601311839.LAA10213@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 31, 96 11:39:49 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > 3) Anyone who has sector sparing off on their SCSI drives so they > can use spindle-sync with a ccd driver without losing rotations, > so they have to substitute BAD144 or similar software sparing. Can you elaborate in not more than 10 lines? I don't see why somebody has to turn off sector sparing in order to use spindle sync. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:57:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03932 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:57:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from seagull.rtd.com (root@seagull.rtd.com [198.102.68.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA03927 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:57:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dgy@localhost) by seagull.rtd.com (8.6.12/1.2) id AAA19863; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:57:18 -0700 From: Don Yuniskis Message-Id: <199602010757.AAA19863@seagull.rtd.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:57:18 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) In-Reply-To: <2257.823145561@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 31, 96 07:32:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Greetings, People of Earth! > > I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion > > for a ISA card: > > If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not simply add a > low-cost CPU and a serial port to it? Then you could also hook an > external modem to it and use it as a full-blown dial-in diagnostic > port for stopping the system in its tracks and sniffing around (or > poking at the corpse). I'd imagine the costs of laying out and > fabricating the boards would add such a "knee" in the cost curve that > another $100 in parts for several orders of magnitude's worth of extra > potential functionality would be a more than reasonable trade off. Does this gizmo *need* to reside within the "PC"? Are you really wanting to let it grab the bus, poke around, etc.? Or, would something more "passive" suffice (i.e. sitting on a serial port external to the PC)? I'm thinking of a box I designed which did pretty much the same thing (but for a different application). Essentially, a UART talking to the host and a UART talking to an external modem (or whatever). The MCU within would log messages coming in (from host) and could be programmed to autodial on a specific set of conditions. The intended application was remote data logging / error reporting. Could gather data or accounting information (again, that's what the particular application was concerned with) and report it to a remote facility periodically. Also had hooks for external events (like monitoring temperature, contact closures, etc.). I think this would "suffice" for crude watchdog with history... setup a syslog to /dev/ttyxxx so this gizmo logs all pertinent info (it had a boatload of NVRAM in it). And, tell it that if it doesn't get any data in "N" minutes, it should autodial and/or reboot the system (through an isolated contact closure). You could also configure it to try to login routinely (using a bogus uid that has '/usr/bin/who' or '/bin/ps -ax' as it's shell) so it can 1) verify that the system is up 2) see what's going on 3) autodial if it can't get a login prompt, etc. On the incoming side, it could be configured to autoanswer and allow a remote host to query the "log" it has recorded. Likewise, it could be directed to reset the attached host (i.e. close the isolated contacts). Does this fit the bill? I could see how much of this hardware and software I can contribute if it's along the right lines. Then, if someone wants to layout some boards and sell them for "cost", I'm sure *most* of you guys could figure out which end of a soldering iron to hold... :> --don From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Jan 31 23:58:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA03993 for hackers-outgoing; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:58:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA03986 for ; Wed, 31 Jan 1996 23:58:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id SAA23271 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:42:41 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602010812.SAA23271@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: BSD slices in FAT filesystems... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:42:40 +1030 (CST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, I'm being boring and trotting this one out for another round of comments. The code for this is slowly taking shape, but I'm not getting as much time to work on it as I'd have liked. Any commentary will of course be appreciated. At the end of dsinit() in diskslice_machdep.c (which as I understand it is called once per disk), I walk the list of slices looking for bigdos filesystems. For each filesystem, I look for a directory called 'slabs.bsd'. If the directory exists, I look in it for files 'a'-'h', 'c' excluded. If any of these files are completely contiguous, I add their sector ranges to a disklabel attached to the slice. If after this, there's no 'b' partition assigned, I look for a Windows swapfile and possibly add this. I have some rudimentary tools for making these slabs as well. As far as I can see, this gets around the overlapping-slices problem with my earlier model, however I still have a few (annoying) questions 8) How much of the disklabel structure is actually used? For the hell of it, I bulk-copy the label that's passed to dsinit(), but I'm sure this isn't the best thing to do. Are the p_frag and cpg/sgs values used? I couldn't follow their ufs/ffs usage down to be sure 8( What should I do with the 'c' partition? The disklabel is marked readonly (for obvious reasons), so it's not likely to be useful for that. I guess I could just forget it, or maybe allow it to be assigned like the other partitions. Trying to make it cover all the other partitions would be stupid; I'm just not sure what other things may want to tinker with it... -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:22:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05633 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05602 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:21:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA28183 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:28 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA27393 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id IAA25720 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:54:14 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010754.IAA25720@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:54:14 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601311842.LAA10227@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 31, 96 11:42:20 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > > Nothing mandates this. > > The kernel's automounting of swap slices "mandates" this. The kernel doesn't automount swap _slices_ at all, and even swap _partitions_ are not automounted at all. They are only mounted with an explicit swapon(8) early in /etc/rc. But i know what you mean: swapping preferably goes to partition `b', yes. (I'm not sure whether it has been allowed for other partitions during the last revamping of the swap code, but it's irrelevant.) > The default installation tools "mandate" this. No. I've installed a system a couple of days ago. The swap partition was the fourth partition, even though the installation program assigned it to the partition `b' (as i was expecting). And that was my point: the name is in no way related to the location on the disk. For sysinstall, the location on the disk does simply correlate to a ``first entered, first on disk'' scenario. Nobody tells you that you gotta assign a swap partition right after assigning root. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:22:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05728 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:22:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05679 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA28218 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:44 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA27403 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:44 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA25931 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:45 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010813.JAA25931@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:13:44 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601312311.SAA26194@hda.com> from "Peter Dufault" at Jan 31, 96 06:11:15 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Peter Dufault wrote: > > This may be fine for you, however you may want to make a specific ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > entry for your ESDI drives - the way the Maxtor has a match - then ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > only that particular drive will be scanned for all luns. ...and submit it for inclusion into the official tree. Please. :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:23:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05832 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:23:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de [137.226.31.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05792 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:23:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kuku@localhost) by gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de (8.6.11/8.6.9) id JAA28726; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:03 +0100 Message-Id: <199602010825.JAA28726@gilberto.physik.rwth-aachen.de> Subject: Re: Hackers ages To: lenzi@cwbone.bsi.com.br (Lenzi, Sergio) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:03 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Lenzi, Sergio" at Jan 31, 96 06:41:21 pm From: Christoph Kukulies Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > I'm almost a hacker and I'm 44 years. I'm almost a hacker too and I'm almost 49 :-) And I'm grandfather since Dec 25th,1995. If you have forgotten, Hackers from the September Hackers meeting in Aachen, my daughter was pregnant at that time. And... it's not a little daemon :-) (like in Polansky's "Rosemarie's Baby"), it's a girl, named Stella Laura. > > > Sergio lenzi. > --Chris Christoph P. U. Kukulies kuku@gil.physik.rwth-aachen.de From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:23:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA05857 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:23:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA05824 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:23:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA28198; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:35 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA27398; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:21:34 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA25835; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:05:41 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010805.JAA25835@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Compaq 16MB limit... To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:05:41 +0100 (MET) Cc: m_tanaka@pa.yokogawa.co.jp (Mihoko Tanaka) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <9602010134.AA10287@cabbage.pa.yokogawa.co.jp> from "Mihoko Tanaka" at Feb 1, 96 10:34:49 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Mihoko Tanaka wrote: > > >>There is no documented API to return the amount of RAM in a machine > >>other than CMOS. There is no BIOS routine that can be used by the > >>boot blocks to overcome this limit, nor does the POST place the results > >>of its test or expose a ROM routine for sizing memory. > > I asked a engineer of COMPAQ about it last month. > He said that we can use the following BIOS call for getting the > amount of RAM in a machine. > > ------------------------ cut cut cut --------------------------------- > INT 15h AX=E801h ---- GET SUPER EXTENDED MEMORY INFORMATION He's apparently kidding. :-/ He tells you to overcome a Compaq bogosity by yet another Compaq bogosity. Of course, for Compaq, the world is okay. There's nothing else than Compaqs around, certainly... -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:26:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA06067 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06062 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:26:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA04666; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:26:32 -0800 (PST) To: Don Yuniskis cc: freebsd-hackers@freefall.FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:57:18 MST." <199602010757.AAA19863@seagull.rtd.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:26:32 -0800 Message-ID: <4664.823163192@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Does this gizmo *need* to reside within the "PC"? Are you really > wanting to let it grab the bus, poke around, etc.? Or, would something > more "passive" suffice (i.e. sitting on a serial port external to the > PC)? Actually, I kind of liked the idea of letting it grab ahold of the bus. It seems that a lot of problems one runs into in PCs these days stem from individual cards or chipsets not *quite* playing by the rules, and at times like that you really do want to watch every IRQ line and have little service routines that are called when one changes state, or whatever. It's the only way to tell if someone's bogusly generating an interrupt, or to generate one yourself if you're trying to simulate some weird peripheral. Not that I ever expected to *build* something as grandiose as I what was talking about, I just like to fantasize about weird peripherals. :-) I think we're also probably dealing with several problem spaces here, not one. One set of people want a dumb robot, hacked out of discrete logic if necessary, that does simple timing and watchdog tasks. Another set of people want a full-blown system for dropping into a PC and diagnosing its behavior right down to individual state transitions on the bus. I can see how both might be very useful things to have, in certain situations. I don't think that they necessarily have to be the same card. :-) I can also see where maybe you just want to design a dumb card that enables one PC to take over another. Then your PC on a card can just be a PC on a PC. :-) All the intelligence would be in the device driver. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:43:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07028 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07022 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:43:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0thubd-0003wkC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 00:43 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA07548; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:03:36 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Bill/Carolyn Pechter cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 00:21:46 EST." <199602010521.AAA19488@shell.monmouth.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 08:03:35 +0100 Message-ID: <7546.823158215@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Boy. I'd love that on my AIX machines... the leds just go blank > after booting. You can control them from user-space, there's even a program for it. Can't remember the name but grep through the bootup stuff, and you will find it. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 00:45:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07126 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:45:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA07110 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 00:44:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA29365; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:43:09 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA27604; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:43:08 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA26219; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:35:48 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602010835.JAA26219@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Swapping (was Re: Good news -- pipe stuff) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:35:48 +0100 (MET) Cc: jehamby@lightside.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199601312213.PAA17374@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Jan 31, 96 03:13:07 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Nate Williams wrote: > > Another thing to look into, although I don't have a benchmark on this, but > > FreeBSD has a nasty tendency to "bind" during heavy VM/disk activity. I > > don't know if this is because the IDE driver is CPU intensive, or if this > > affects people (to a lesser extent) with SCSI drives. > > This is an IDE thing. Basically, the system must uses lots more CPU and > is much less effecient than using the SCSI drivers. Just to add one more point here: I can burn a CD-R while running full multi-user under FreeBSD. Of course, this is a SCSI-only machine, and it's got 32 MB RAM, but then this allows me to run full X11 *and* burn a CD-R simultaneously. Since the CD-R's are _very_ picky when it comes to a low but steady data-flow, this basically proves that the system does not ``freeze'' for more than ~ 1 second or so, otherwise the CD-R would stop accepting data. People usually yell at us when we declare IDE to `crap' somewhere in Usenet... :) -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 01:29:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA09997 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:29:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA09992 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:29:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA00294; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:28:58 -0800 (PST) To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: BSD slices in FAT filesystems... In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:42:40 +1030." <199602010812.SAA23271@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 01:28:58 -0800 Message-ID: <292.823166938@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > For each filesystem, I look for a directory called 'slabs.bsd'. If the > directory exists, I look in it for files 'a'-'h', 'c' excluded. If any > of these files are completely contiguous, I add their sector ranges to > a disklabel attached to the slice. That's pretty interesting! Let me know when it's possible to boot off of one of these things! :-) jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 01:50:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA12116 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA12092 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 01:50:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id UAA24491; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:44:23 +1100 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:44:23 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602010944.UAA24491@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: lehey.pad@sni.de, pst@cisco.com Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish us from >NetBSD and BSD/OS. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really 4.4 and later >distinctions and should use the BSD define. >That's why you should use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what >everyone decided on as the STANDARD way to do this. If you gratuitously The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish BSD from foonix. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really for POSIX and other things that every modern OS has and shouldn't use the BSD define. That's why you shouldn't use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what only BSDpersons decided on as a NONSTANDARD way to do this. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 02:01:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13278 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA13222 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:01:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA06724 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:00:53 +0100 Message-Id: <199602011000.LAA06724@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 To: pst@cisco.com (Paul Traina) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:56:47 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602010750.XAA11280@puli.cisco.com>; from "Paul Traina" at Jan 31, 96 11:50 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) >> There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're runnin >>> g >> under. >> >> #ifdef _HAVE_PARAM_H >> #include >> #endif >> >> #if defined(BSD) && (BSD >= datecode) >> ... >> #endif >> >> This gives us much finer grained control. > > How does this distinguish between BSD/OS, NetBSD and FreeBSD? How > does it distinguish between FreeBSD 2.1 and FreeBSD 2.2? What this > really tells you is what version of the compiler or header files you > have. > > The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish us from > NetBSD and BSD/OS. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really 4.4 and later > distinctions and should use the BSD define. I think we need to look back and decide what we're trying to do here. I don't have the original message (>>), but I believe it was you who wrote it. You said: "There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're running under." Grouping all versions of FreeBSD, NetBSD and BSD/OS doesn't achieve this. Also, the fact remains that you're at the mercy of the correct installation (and contents :-) of sys/param.h. > That's why you should use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what > everyone decided on as the STANDARD way to do this. If you gratuitously > define bsd4_4 in the compiler and have programs rely on it, then you're > not doing anyone any favors. Agreed, defining the operating system version in param.h is closer to the truth than defining it in the compiler. But be aware that in gcc, the definitions are really in (mumble)/specs, a text file which you can modify. However, if we're going to talk about STANDARDs, it's about time that we thought out a better way. Most usage of #ifdef BSD and friends isn't to find out whether the target system is running BSD, it's a help to guess whether a certain specific feature is available. I've seen some really bad misassumptions based on this feature. What we really need is to specify (in sys/param.h, if you think it appropriate) which features the system has. To make this worthwhile, though, every flavour of UNIX would have to agree, and I don't see that happening. > I know, it's a pain in the ass to use the method I mentioned (see quote > above), but it's correct. This I debate. > When you need to get finer grained than the standard, then use: > __NetBSD__ > > __FreeBSD__ > > or __FreeBSD__== > > or bsdi > > I think that the gcc *should* define bsd4_4 (or similar). There's > plenty of software out there which doesn't care which 4.4BSD-derived > system you're running, and this would help, just like __386bsd__ used > to be useful. > > We're in violent agreement about your second sentence, disagreement about > your first. The "portable" method has already been defined, and it's not > the one you chose. It looks like we'll have to remain in disagreement, unless I can convince you. There is *no* portable method. I suppose, though, I could agree that defining BSD4_4 is as much of a crock as everything else: my original message drew attention to the date code method of recognizing FreeBSD (only). A completely portable method would be one which requires no modification of existing sources, a reasonably portable method would require minimal changes, etc.--not just on FreeBSD, but on all platforms. Any method which requires changes to the majority of the source code ported to a particular platform is not portable. > I don't like it either, but I live with it. Well, I live with it too :-) But, like you, I don't like it. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 02:08:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA13824 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:08:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (mail.sni.de [192.109.2.33]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id CAA13807 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:08:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nerv@localhost) by nixpbe.pdb.sni.de (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA07519 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:08:00 +0100 Message-Id: <199602011008.LAA07519@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 11:03:54 MET From: Greg Lehey Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602010944.UAA24491@godzilla.zeta.org.au>; from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 1, 96 8:44 pm X-Mailer: xmail 2.4 (based on ELM 2.2 PL16) Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish us from >> NetBSD and BSD/OS. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really 4.4 and later >> distinctions and should use the BSD define. > >> That's why you should use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what >> everyone decided on as the STANDARD way to do this. If you gratuitously > > The big mistake most porters make is they TRY to distinguish BSD from > foonix. Most "freebsd" distinctions are really for POSIX and other things > that every modern OS has and shouldn't use the BSD define. Most of the time. As I mentioned in my last posting, it's frequently used to check for other things (in older software, you might find it used to guess whether the system has symlink(2), for example). The real problem is that you don't really want to go and change all the sources to get it to run, so to a certain extent you're at the mercy of the authors. > That's why you shouldn't use the sys/param.h method, becuase it's what > only BSDpersons decided on as a NONSTANDARD way to do this. Precisely. Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 02:27:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA14933 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:27:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun4nl.NL.net (sun4nl.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA14925 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:27:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from spase1 by sun4nl.NL.net via EUnet id AA11466 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:01:57 +0100 Received: from phobos.spase.nl by spase.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16843; Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:42:25 GMT From: dutchman@spase.nl (Kees Jan Koster) Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA01061 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:42:30 +0100 Message-Id: <199602010942.KAA01061@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: Followup on LKM documentation. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:42:30 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I just asked for documentation on LKM. I forgot to mention that maybe it's better to mail the stuff to me directly. That would save hackers' bandwidth. I'll dump all the stuff I get into a single big.tgz.uue and post it on hackers' later. Sorry for the confusion, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 02:35:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA15568 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:35:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sun4nl.NL.net (sun4nl.NL.net [193.78.240.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA15560 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:35:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from spase1 by sun4nl.NL.net via EUnet id AA11266 (5.65b/CWI-3.3); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:00:42 +0100 Received: from phobos.spase.nl by spase.nl (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10554; Thu, 1 Feb 96 10:25:39 GMT From: dutchman@spase.nl (Kees Jan Koster) Received: (dutchman@localhost) by phobos.spase.nl (8.6.11/8.6.11) id KAA00868 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:25:44 +0100 Message-Id: <199602010925.KAA00868@phobos.spase.nl> Subject: LKM documentation. To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers Mailing list) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:25:43 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hoi Hackers, I'd like to write documentation on LKM. I was thinking in the direction of an addition to the FreeBSD handbook. (Which I found quite useful, but a bit limited.) So here is my plea: Please send me any documentation, tips, tricks and caveats you have on LKM. Also add experiences and ideas. They might come in handy. If you have working examples of LKM's that might serve as an example, maybe you can include hem too. I have only e-mail, so www pointers are useless, sorry. Thanks in advance, Kees Jan ======================================================================v== Kees Jan Koster e-mail: dutchman@spase.nl Van Somerenstraat 50 tel: NL-24-3234708 6521 BS Nijmegen the Netherlands ========================================================================= Who is this general Failure and why is he reading my disk? (anonymous) ========================================================================= From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 03:52:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA20616 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from ivory.lm.com (ivory.lm.com [192.231.221.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA20609 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 03:52:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from peterb@localhost) by ivory.lm.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id GAA06854; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:51:26 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:51:24 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Berger X-Sender: peterb@ivory.lm.com To: Joe Greco cc: Jaye Mathisen , jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, andreas@knobel.gun.de, dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199601290501.XAA02869@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Message-ID: X-Mentos: The Freshmaker! X-Request-Do: resolve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Joe, The observation that a FreeBSD box acting as a router is "mostly idle" is bogus; since routing takes place entirely in the kernel and "idleness" is a measurement of the number of processes in userland waiting to run, I'm not sure it's an accurate measure. The real issues are 1) A Cisco will give you better interface performance than almost any PC; 2) the port density of a Cisco is much better, and 3) you can't be tempted to do stupid things with a Cisco like "Hey, let's put a web server on our router today." Cisco's customer response is pretty much second to none. We've never had to wait more than next-day for spares, when we need them. "The law locks up both man and woman/Who steals the goose from off the common But lets the greater felon loose/Who steals the common from the goose." -anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Berger - peterb@telerama.lm.com - http://www.lm.com/~peterb From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 05:07:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA24718 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:07:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from dyson.iquest.net (dyson.iquest.net [198.70.144.127]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA24712 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:07:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by dyson.iquest.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) id CAA02109; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:45:03 GMT From: "John S. Dyson" Message-Id: <199602010245.CAA02109@dyson.iquest.net> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 02:45:03 +0000 () Cc: dyson@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010644.IAA25708@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Feb 1, 96 08:44:09 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > (Seen this, too -- but only in the presence of X server, rather annoying) > John Dyson writes than: > > : That problem has been fixed in -current, I believe. It was really starting > : to bug me :-). > > Please, please, please! Any chances of getting this (rather > critical) fix into 2.1 branch? > BDE says that the problem that I fixed might not be what you are seeing. I have started some discussions about it. DG will be involved also. This is appearing to be more of an issue than I had thought... I might have mislead you :-(. > > What are your opinions on adding the above suggestion somewhere into > the documentation for disk partitioning process? > Rules of thumb like 2x or 3x kind-of don't really model what is happening. A better model would be "sum up the size of all of the programs that you are running (including malloc areas, etc)". If that is bigger 2X the amount of memory that you are using, then that is how much swap space you need, otherwise 2X memory is a good bet. John From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 05:13:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA25184 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:13:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1.digital.com (mail1.digital.com [204.123.2.50]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA25164 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:13:52 -0800 (PST) From: garyj@frt.dec.com Received: from cssmuc.frt.dec.com by mail1.digital.com (5.65 EXP 4/12/95 for V3.2/1.0/WV) id AA31869; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:05:20 -0800 Received: from localhost by cssmuc.frt.dec.com; (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/14Nov95-0232PM) id AA05947; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:05:17 +0100 Message-Id: <9602011305.AA05947@cssmuc.frt.dec.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: ports%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com, hackers%freebsd.org@inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com In-Reply-To: Message from Andreas Klemm of Wed, 31 Jan 96 18:43:35 +0100. Reply-To: gjennejohn@frt.dec.com Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 01 Feb 96 14:05:17 +0100 X-Mts: smtp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk andreas@knobel.gun.de writes: > On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Satoshi Asami wrote: > > I used the http site for the patch file instead of including the 800KB > > file in the patches/ directory. > > Very fine ! I wanted to do this, too, but noticed that the > hypertext link isn't pointing to a ftp server, bad luck ;-) > > > The ftpget script we are testing now can handle this; and there is a > > copy on ftp.freebsd.org, so regular ncftp users will just get it from > > the backup site. > > Ah, fine. > didn't work for me, I had to grab the patch using netscape. And ftp.cdrom.com was full up (600 users, amazing !). I noticed that there's now a patch on the pgcc server dated 31.Jan.96. Maybe we could look into using this instead ? This is supposed to be the last patch until gcc 2.8.0 is released. > > People, please benchmark it! And thanks for the port, Andreas! > > Well, was a pleasure between 10pm and 1am ;-) I got the idea, > when Paul Henning asked. I tried to generate a -current kernel with it, no joy. Haven't tried it with any user-land stuff yet. --- Gary Jennejohn (work) gjennejohn@frt.dec.com (home) Gary.Jennejohn@munich.netsurf.de (play) gj@freebsd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 05:19:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA25451 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:19:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from shell.monmouth.com (pechter@shell.monmouth.com [205.164.220.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA25445 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:19:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pechter@localhost) by shell.monmouth.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA19299; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:17:21 -0500 From: Bill/Carolyn Pechter Message-Id: <199602011317.IAA19299@shell.monmouth.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:17:20 -0500 (EST) Cc: FreeBSD-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD-hackers) In-Reply-To: <2257.823145561@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Jan 31, 96 07:32:41 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > If you're going to go to all that trouble, why not simply add a > low-cost CPU and a serial port to it? Then you could also hook an > external modem to it and use it as a full-blown dial-in diagnostic > port for stopping the system in its tracks and sniffing around (or > poking at the corpse). I'd imagine the costs of laying out and > fabricating the boards would add such a "knee" in the cost curve that > another $100 in parts for several orders of magnitude's worth of extra > potential functionality would be a more than reasonable trade off. > > Pyramid did/does something like this for their RISC monsters. They > have a 68K machine driving a color console which provides the fanciest > interface for grubbing around in the internals of a machine/UNIX OS > that I've ever seen! The only drawback to theirs was that they didn't > really document how to get down and dirty with the 68K system (for > obvious reasons, I guess) so you couldn't really use it as an OS > developers tool, but I rather doubt that any FreeBSD related project > would make the same mistake. :-) > I don't think they did this after they went to the MIS series and later the MIPS chip. They went command line interface (partly to satisfy AT&T who OEM'd the boxes and didn't want to have to use Wyse350/Wyse30/Wyse50 crt's -- they used their own.) The interface was pretty -- but the low level grubbing was nowhere as slick as the PDP11/21 chip in the Vax8600. I've used both and the 8600 did continuous online health checks from the front end. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bill Pechter/Carolyn Pechter | The postmaster always pings twice. Lakewood MicroSystems | 17 Meredith Drive, 908-389-3592 | Tinton Falls, NJ 07724 pechter@shell.monmouth.com | From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 05:37:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA26532 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:37:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA26524 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:37:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from minnow.render.com (render.demon.co.uk [158.152.30.118]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id FAA21996 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:36:56 -0800 Received: (from dfr@localhost) by minnow.render.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA28546; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:56:54 GMT Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:56:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Doug Rabson To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: Greg Lehey , Mark Tinguely , hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-Reply-To: <199601301053.CAA00899@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > [...]> > > > I think the major Unix producers should look at the projected P6 numbers and > > glowing praise of free unix-clones and (in the words of Staelin/McVoy talking > > about the P6), "be afraid, be very afraid". > > Well, if Intel or someone increases the memory bandwith the P6 may > be something. At any rate, I doubt that the P6 will cut into > the high end 3d graphic market . It seems that the PC market > is dragging or dodging the 3d hardware market. The first deployment > of 3d graphic hardware should be barely okay. Personally, I would prefer that Intel made byte and halfword memory operations go as fast as 32bit operations. As far as I am concerned, the two most useful pixel formats for 3D rendering are 8bit and 16bit. The image quality gain for 32bit pixels is never enough to justify doubling the memory bandwidth requirements. The first set of 3d hardware is a bit disappointing but its not too bad. The second wave should be excellent. Intel's MMX instruction set extensions make a P5 into a pretty good 3D accelerator too... -- Doug Rabson, Microsoft RenderMorphics Ltd. Mail: dfr@render.com Phone: +44 171 251 4411 FAX: +44 171 251 0939 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 06:03:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA28165 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from border.com (janus.border.com [199.71.190.98]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA28154 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:03:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by janus.border.com id <20494>; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:10:23 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:03:14 -0500 From: Jerry Kendall To: Paul Traina Cc: FreeBSD Hackers Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver In-Reply-To: <199601312210.OAA07378@precipice.shockwave.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Message-Id: <96Feb1.091023est.20494@janus.border.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > > You can't right now, but wait a couple of weeks. > Or get xfqcam and the freebsd diffs mentioned previously. > I have xfqcam.... I don't remember seeing and mention of FreeBSD diffs though.... Anyone know where they are??? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Any comments or opinions in this message are my own and may or may not reflect the comments or opinions of my present or previous employers. Jerry Kendall Border Network Technologies Inc. System Software Engineer Tel +1-416-368-7157 ext 303 jerry@border.com Fax +1-416-368-7178 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 06:18:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA29016 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:18:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA29011 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id IAA09387; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:18:35 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id IAA04160; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:19:49 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011419.IAA04160@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: WYE To: stevep@orion.ods.net (Steve Palm) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 8:19:45 CST Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601312221.QAA11581@orion.ods.net> from "Steve Palm" at Jan 31, 96 04:23:12 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Good morning SIO hackers, In my continuing struggles with the BocaBoard 2016-and-jammed-IRQ problem, I've set up a continuous port monitor system that alerts me when something bad happens. The condition, as previously described, is quite detectable - see the first two lines below. Steve Palm has redeemed himself by making the following possibly important observation which I have somehow missed: > I determined that wye's IRQ was jammed again.... The light was on > red, as well as the AT (nothing) (OK) behaviour. > > I downed wye and did a physical reset. One thing to note: When I > did a halt, and wye was waiting for a reboot, the IRQ light did go > out. Not sure if that would indicate anything meaningful or not, > since I don't know what the software drivers do during a halt request > to make changes to the IRQ status, but thought I would share it with > you in case you hadn't noticed. Okay, this suggests that there is some way to clear this condition in software! I had been meaning to write a little more about this anyways, so here goes. The time before this, when this happened, I made the trek down to the office and manually unplugged each port, and ran "cu" against it and typed "AT" in the hopes that I would "shake a bit" someplace that had been missed. Each time I got the message "sio: IRQ pending (2) in poll" which was a message that Bruce (I think?) had sent me a minor patch to put in to help debug this.. However I got through all 16 ports and the IRQ was still jammed low. Any ideas or next-step suggestions would be appreciated. Steve's observation suggests that the condition can be corrected via software.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 06:40:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00141 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (tick.ssec.wisc.edu [144.92.108.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00118 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA06011; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:39:30 -0600 (CST) From: Dave Glowacki Message-Id: <199602011439.IAA06011@tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: Michael Smith cc: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Willows In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 13:51:42 +1030." <199602010321.NAA21412@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 08:39:22 -0600 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu stands accused of saying: > > > > Any word on a port to freebsd of willows TWIN XPDK for UNIX? > > I would *very* much like to try it out and the word was that there was > > going to be a port (presumably be willows). > > There was noise about how on 31/1 the source would be available. It's 1/2 > here, and still no source visible 8) > > Seriously, register for FTP access, and send them a mail to mention that > you want to use it under FreeBSD. Jordan can politik, but groundswell > support will make his case a lot easier. > > http://www.willows.com/ It's there now. I registered, got instructions on FTP access, logged into ftp.willows.com and grabbed twin-src-1.5.0.tgz (dated Feb 1. 3:10) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 06:42:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00286 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA00280 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id IAA08797; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:39:20 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011439.IAA08797@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: peterb@telerama.lm.com (Peter Berger) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:39:20 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net, andreas@knobel.gun.de, dennis@etinc.com, hm@altona.hamburg.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Peter Berger" at Feb 1, 96 06:51:24 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Joe, > > The observation that a FreeBSD box acting as a router is "mostly idle" is > bogus; since routing takes place entirely in the kernel and "idleness" is > a measurement of the number of processes in userland waiting to run, I'm > not sure it's an accurate measure. When comparing the execution times of a CPU intensive program as a measure of CPU loading, and vmstat's report of system and idle times, I have found that there is a strong correlation between how many packets the machine is routing per second and both of those numbers. If I can run a CPU hungry program and it only takes 25% longer even though the box is routing hundreds of packets per second, I tell you the router is mostly idle. The claim is certainly not bogus. > The real issues are 1) A Cisco will give you better interface performance > than almost any PC; Yes. Of course. On the other hand that may not be an issue if you're a true performance freak, because YOU DON'T LET YOUR ETHERNETS GET BUSY ENOUGH FOR IT TO MATTER. :-) My news server is on its own wire (well shares it with one other box). My DNS/mail/general purpose servers share one wire. My Web server is on its own wire. Helicon (the local FreeBSD archive-to-be) is on its own wire. Solaria and Wye are on their own wire. The only wire that looks anything near overloaded is the one with news on it.. I'm not stupid enough to put everything on one big wire and pray that it all works out. So many places are dumb and do put everything on a wire and trust their Cisco to deal with it, in reality they don't have an architecture which allows them to use the Cisco well. If my networks were hopelessly busy I am sure I would see a Cisco handling the strain better than a FreeBSD box. On the other hand, as it stands, a Cisco is an expensive luxury that you are welcome to donate but will do NOTHING for me. :-) > 2) the port density of a Cisco is much better, I'm still waiting for support for quad-port PCI Ethernet cards. With 16 interfaces per box I could be very happy... > and 3) > you can't be tempted to do stupid things with a Cisco like "Hey, let's > put a web server on our router today." Well, if you're not disciplined, you shouldn't be in this business anyways. > Cisco's customer response is pretty much second to none. We've never had > to wait more than next-day for spares, when we need them. That's impressive. And not necessarily the norm. > "The law locks up both man and woman/Who steals the goose from off the common > But lets the greater felon loose/Who steals the common from the goose." -anon ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 06:48:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA00575 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:48:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA00273 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 06:42:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id OAA15272; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:23:39 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id OAA29519; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:22:02 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id NAA00700; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:34 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602011258.NAA00700@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: bmk@dtr.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:58:34 +0100 (MET) Cc: stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199602010725.XAA00414@dtr.com> from "bmk@dtr.com" at Jan 31, 96 11:25:10 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk As bmk@dtr.com wrote: ccdconfig > I believe that it also should be statically linked > Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? Binaries built from /usr/src/sbin are automagically linked static, this is done via the parent's Makefile.inc. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 07:17:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA02096 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:17:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA02079 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:16:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id CAA24193; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:01:11 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602011531.CAA24193@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Willows To: dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU (Dave Glowacki) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:01:08 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011439.IAA06011@tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU> from "Dave Glowacki" at Feb 1, 96 08:39:22 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dave Glowacki stands accused of saying: > It's there now. > > I registered, got instructions on FTP access, logged into ftp.willows.com > and grabbed twin-src-1.5.0.tgz (dated Feb 1. 3:10) This looks (from first impressions) really well laid out. The porting guide makes it sound so easy 8) User-LDT access is already available; we have dlopen & friends, anyone care to comment about what happens when a process generates an interrupt? Staggeringly, that's about the limit of the porting issues. Scary. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 07:40:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04187 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:40:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA04153 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:40:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA19544; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:39:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:39:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011539.KAA19544@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Michael Smith From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >dennis stands accused of saying: >> >Depending on what parts were required, I'd guess at ~$60 or so (assembled). >> >(My guess is a GAL and an 8254 would be the order of the day). >> > >> >> Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net >> >> Ours are $139 Q5....figure out the cost recovery and you'd have to >> need a hundred to break even......I dont even market them 'cause >> theres no margin at that price. > >Either you hand-assemble them yourself and have a high opinion of your >time's value, or your fab agency is ripping you. The card should be the >length of an 8-bit slot and about an inch high ($20 in low quantities), >it should contain about $10 in parts (and here I admit that I don't know >how fancy your card's design is), and cost about $30 to load and test >(presuming that you you allow ~10 mins to load and another 10 to test, which >is generous.) > >At $140, that's ~$80 for margin and overheads, which is a reasonable price >depending on how many you move. Just don't cry poor about it, ok? 8) I'm not going to get into an production argument with the great business minds on this list! Your analysis illustrates why 80% of new businesses fail in the first year......your understand of the costs of acquisition, inventory, marketing, general admin, warranties and sales is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the time and resources against that which could be spend on much higher margin products. Thanks for straightening me out! Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 07:44:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA04543 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:44:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from execpc.com (mailgate.execpc.com [204.29.202.21]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA04534 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:44:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from Pkhouvong.execpc.com (hdtrike.execpc.com [169.207.8.94]) by execpc.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA06400 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:44:06 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3110DEA0.7384@execpc.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:39:12 -0600 From: Thanva Khouvongsavanh Organization: Shoreland Medical Marketing X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0b6a (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: I want to be a BETA tester Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello, I received an email from Jordan Hubbard on the status of the PCMCIA driver. He mentioned that if I would like to become a BETA tester, I should email this address. Well, I guess this is my official request. Thanks Thanva From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 07:55:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05384 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:55:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from sponsor.octet.com (root@sponsor.octet.com [204.141.97.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05374 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 07:55:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from d@localhost) by sponsor.octet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA00310; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:42:01 GMT From: Daniel Leeds Message-Id: <199602011042.KAA00310@sponsor.octet.com> Subject: Re: question To: havlicek@infinet.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:42:01 +0000 () Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "havlicek@infinet.com" at Feb 1, 96 03:07:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I have been thinking about running BSD for a couple of years. But in the meantime, you've been hooked on phonics right? > > I use linux. Are the BSD guys still a bunch of assholes? I use freebsd. Are the LINUX guys still a bunch of fanatical kids? (apparently so.) > > They were a bunch of pricks the last time I considered switching. > Sure. And with great openers like this midnight missive, you are bound to get endless help as well as warmth and kindness. > > If the assholes have been washed out of the system I might consider it. > Lots of bugs have been washed out, and apparently even a jesus monroy too... > BSD is not impressive because it promotes asshole comments to new users. LINUX is not impressive because it promotes clueless users to troll mailing lists. > > I think if yu want anybody to to use BSD you need to straighten up your act. > Sure thing kiddo, say hello to the homeroom teacher for us. cheerio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 08:26:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA07639 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:26:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from GndRsh.aac.dev.com (GndRsh.aac.dev.com [198.145.92.241]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA07626 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:26:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rgrimes@localhost) by GndRsh.aac.dev.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id IAA20540; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:24:32 -0800 From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <199602011624.IAA20540@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> Subject: Re: Am I root?! or How to mirror an 'a' partition? To: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua (Andrew V. Stesin) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:24:32 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ccd@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: <199602011355.PAA15508@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> from "Andrew V. Stesin" at Feb 1, 96 03:55:18 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > That was an announcement of new ccd driver and it's mirroring > capabilities. I'd be _glad_ to test it, but I'm afraid it > won't mirror an 'a' partition, and in case one disk will > _totally_ go south late at night, it will wait for > manual intervention anyway (i.e.: sd1 will become sd0 after > panic -> 'sd1: device not configured' or whatever -> waiting > for me to come and repair the box). ... > dd if=/dev/rsd0[efg] of=/dev/rsd1[efg] bs=64k > > work fine, but > > dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/rsd1a bs=64k > > bombs and tells me: "dd: /dev/rsd1a: read-only filesystem"? > sd0a is mounted on / and sd1a isn't mounted at all. Because the first 16 blocks of the a partition are special, they contain the bootblocks and disklabel. These are protected from writes and require a special ioctl to be able to write them. > > dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/rsd1a bs=16b skip=1 Try adding a seek=1 so you skip over the first 16b of the output device too. Skip only effects the input file. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 08:32:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08220 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA08118 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:32:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA08895; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:30:12 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011630.KAA08895@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:30:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4664.823163192@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 00:26:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > Does this gizmo *need* to reside within the "PC"? Are you really > > wanting to let it grab the bus, poke around, etc.? Or, would something > > more "passive" suffice (i.e. sitting on a serial port external to the > > PC)? > > Actually, I kind of liked the idea of letting it grab ahold of the > bus. It seems that a lot of problems one runs into in PCs these days > stem from individual cards or chipsets not *quite* playing by the > rules, and at times like that you really do want to watch every IRQ > line and have little service routines that are called when one changes > state, or whatever. It's the only way to tell if someone's bogusly > generating an interrupt, or to generate one yourself if you're trying > to simulate some weird peripheral. Well, that is getting a lot more complexicated... :-) I get the feeling I was barking up the right tree to begin with, but just didn't take it far enough. Take a PC card. Stick a microprocessor on it with two serial ports. Connect a 16450 to the PC bus as COM1:, and hard wire it to one of the uP's serial ports. You have "serial console" capability within FreeBSD. Connect an output line from the uP to the PC's reset line. And decode one or two I/O locations and make them available to the uP. Now: you can use the I/O location(s) to control a basic, easy-to-program watchdog function running on the uP. In addition, you can connect a modem (/terminal/whatever) to the uP's other serial port. You could password protect access, which would be handy for remote sites. Once connected, the port could just be a pass-thru to the other port, but you could use BREAK or some other escape sequence to get access to other functions: o Send BREAK to FreeBSD (i.e. break to DDB). One of my worries with serial consoles has been the danger of an inadvertent BREAK halting your system, just like a Sun :-( !! o Send hardware RESET (owwwwww) o See log of recent events (maybe a 10K buffer that saves FreeBSD's console output and writes an appropriate marker if'n'when a watchdog RESET happens, etc). o Etc. You now have a flexible platform which can be programmed to order. You can't do really fancy things like monitoring the PC bus, but you could if you expanded upon the hardware somewhat. Depending on the choice of uP and its I/O capabilities, one might conceivably consider adding multiple point temperature monitoring and/or voltage monitoring as well. This would still not be a terribly complicated device to build: you need a CPU, RAM, ROM, I/O, 2 serial ports, and a 16450. Most of the former can be found integrated in various embedded application uP's. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 08:37:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08729 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:37:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA08712 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:36:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA08920; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:34:58 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011634.KAA08920@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dgy@rtd.com (Don Yuniskis) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:34:58 -0600 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010757.AAA19863@seagull.rtd.com> from "Don Yuniskis" at Feb 1, 96 00:57:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Does this gizmo *need* to reside within the "PC"? Are you really > wanting to let it grab the bus, poke around, etc.? Or, would something > more "passive" suffice (i.e. sitting on a serial port external to the > PC)? All I need in my machine room is Yet More Junk Hanging Off The Dozen FreeBSD Machines I Have Stuffed Into 56 Sq. Ft.. For me, at least, adding a lot of external hardware is not a pretty solution. > I'm thinking of a box I designed which did pretty much the same thing > (but for a different application). Essentially, a UART talking to > the host and a UART talking to an external modem (or whatever). > The MCU within would log messages coming in (from host) and could be > programmed to autodial on a specific set of conditions. The intended > application was remote data logging / error reporting. Could gather > data or accounting information (again, that's what the particular > application was concerned with) and report it to a remote facility > periodically. Also had hooks for external events (like monitoring > temperature, contact closures, etc.). > > I think this would "suffice" for crude watchdog with history... > setup a syslog to /dev/ttyxxx so this gizmo logs all pertinent > info (it had a boatload of NVRAM in it). And, tell it that if it > doesn't get any data in "N" minutes, it should autodial and/or > reboot the system (through an isolated contact closure). Now, there's a cool idea. Autodialer... hadn't thought of that. :-) > You could also configure it to try to login routinely (using a > bogus uid that has '/usr/bin/who' or '/bin/ps -ax' as it's shell) > so it can 1) verify that the system is up 2) see what's going on > 3) autodial if it can't get a login prompt, etc. > > On the incoming side, it could be configured to autoanswer and > allow a remote host to query the "log" it has recorded. Likewise, > it could be directed to reset the attached host (i.e. close the > isolated contacts). Along the lines of what I just wrote up. :-) > Does this fit the bill? I could see how much of this hardware > and software I can contribute if it's along the right lines. > Then, if someone wants to layout some boards and sell them > for "cost", I'm sure *most* of you guys could figure out > which end of a soldering iron to hold... :> There are possibilities in all of this :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 08:55:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA09871 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:55:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA09856 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:55:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id KAA09004; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:54:42 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011654.KAA09004@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: No SCSI recovery - yet another gripe To: gibbs@freefall.freebsd.org (Justin T. Gibbs) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:54:42 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602010525.VAA23989@freefall.freebsd.org> from "Justin T. Gibbs" at Jan 31, 96 09:25:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > >This is the second time this week my news box has frozen with a SCSI error > >of some sort on the screen. This time: > > > >ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out > >sd23(aha1:3:0): BUS DEVICE RESET message queued. > >ahc1:A:3: no active SCB for reconnecting target - issuing ABORT > >SAVED_TCL = 0x30 > >ahc1: target 3, lun0 (sd23) timed out > > Yup. The error recovery code in the aic7xxx driver is especially > bad because it has not been updated to match the recent stability > fixes in the driver. Bluhhhck. :-/ :-( > >On the other hand, consider this a > >plea for the SCSI gods to improve the error handling somehow! I hear great > >games talked on -hackers and all, layered device independent error handling, > >etc... a free beer to the person(s) who implement(s) it. ;-) > > This will happen before 2.2 ships. PowerPoint is nearing code complete, > so my time is limited for for another 7 days or so, but after that, > my nights will be devoted to these problems. The entire generic SCSI > layer is in for a revamp with extra detail going toward error recovery > and performance. Cool! :-) > >For kicks, I have been known to take a SCSI disk and unplug it from a > >Solaris based system while the system is running. The grace with which it > >attempts to deal with the crisis is admirable. Sometimes the system even > >continues to work if I plug the drive back in... :-) I don't expect that > >anybody has the time or effort to spare to implement error recovery to this > >sort of level, > > We need this level of robustness in order to be taken seriously IMHO. Yes, I think so too, but then again, I realize this is a volunteer operation and I would not be unhappy with a less than preferable action such as a panic. I do think that this is something that needs to be addressed before FreeBSD is likely to over the world. ;-) > As they say, "shit happens" on SCSI busses as well as as in real life. > Luckily we can anticipate what kinds of things will hit the fan with SCSI > and hopefully do everything possible to recover. My main concern is > sufficient driver level documentation to make the error recovery reliable. > I have all I need for the Adaptec aic7xxx cards since I control the > firmware (Stephan I'm sure is in the same boat with the NCR), but for cards > like the Buslogic and Ultrastore, I just don't know how well we can do. Again, one can only ask so much out of volunteers. We can try to support LOTS of hardware and that is GOOD. On the other hand, there is also nothing wrong with certifying certain hardware as "FreeBSD Blessed" and therefore saying it is preferable to use well documented hardware that is fully supported over poorly documented hardware that got reverse-engineered. Anyways, thanks and good luck. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:01:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10225 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:01:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10099 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 08:59:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id SAA09892 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:59:01 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id RAA29750 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:57:30 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id RAA17767; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:57:29 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602011557.RAA17767@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:57:28 +0200 (EET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010245.CAA02109@dyson.iquest.net> from "John S. Dyson" at Feb 1, 96 02:45:03 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hello John, # Rules of thumb like 2x or 3x kind-of don't really model what is happening. # A better model would be "sum up the size of all of the programs that you # are running (including malloc areas, etc)". If that is bigger 2X the # amount of memory that you are using, then that is how much swap space you # need, otherwise 2X memory is a good bet. Who can say apriory what programs and how many of them you'll be running tomorrow? Today your'e Ok, tomorrow you suddenly get some 15 sendmails running on the queue, and several uuxqts, and so on, so on. And I'm not really sure that running out of swap is safe at all; and probably there _is_ some empiric ratio between RAM and swap, which keeps system alive and response time low, back in 1.1* days heavy swapping on slow disks just stopped the system; with new FreeBSD things are _much_ better, and new disks are much faster (compare today's 2.5-5.0Mb/sec on new SCSI drives and 0.7-1.0Mb/sec on old IDE!). Swapping doesn't hurt any more. This is a Small Wonder and a Great Victory of both Mr. Dyson and HDD industry, really! :-) And more RAM might be added someday. Why save some 32Mb of disk today if you'll maybe insert 16Mb more RAM next month? # # John # -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:05:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10398 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10392 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:05:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19726; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:04:58 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:04:58 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011704.MAA19726@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Peter Berger From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Peter Burger writes.... >Joe, > >The observation that a FreeBSD box acting as a router is "mostly idle" is >bogus; since routing takes place entirely in the kernel and "idleness" is >a measurement of the number of processes in userland waiting to run, I'm >not sure it's an accurate measure. > >The real issues are 1) A Cisco will give you better interface performance >than almost any PC; 2) the port density of a Cisco is much better, and 3) >you can't be tempted to do stupid things with a Cisco like "Hey, let's >put a web server on our router today." > >Cisco's customer response is pretty much second to none. We've never had >to wait more than next-day for spares, when we need them. This is wrong on all 3 counts. Experience tells otherwise. A similarly priced unit with a Web server will easily outperform a Cisco. Cisco's method of handling dumb serial controllers for hi-speed lines takes much away from its apparent architectural advantages, plus the use of a slow processor (which is consumed handling serial/ethernet traffic) makes any processing task (like filtering) very slow compared to a (say) Pentium solution. With a PC, basically, you get flexibility and power for a much lower cost. For Example, you can't add a 100Mbs port to a Cisco for $134! Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:08:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10534 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mandor.dev.com (mandor.dev.com [198.145.93.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10498 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from mandor.dev.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mandor.dev.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24365; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:02:15 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602011702.JAA24365@mandor.dev.com> To: Michael Smith cc: dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU (Dave Glowacki), chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Willows Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:02:15 PST From: Brian Smith Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Dave Glowacki stands accused of saying: >> It's there now. >> >> I registered, got instructions on FTP access, logged into ftp.willows.com >> and grabbed twin-src-1.5.0.tgz (dated Feb 1. 3:10) > >This looks (from first impressions) really well laid out. The porting >guide makes it sound so easy 8) > >User-LDT access is already available; we have dlopen & friends, anyone >care to comment about what happens when a process generates an interrupt? The User-LDT even in current is broken in a couple of ways. It was imported from NetBSD a while back, so I just ftp'ed NetBSD kernel src last night to determine what needs to be changed. Your first problem will be that it doesn't allocate enough space for the full 8192 possible LDT entries. I'll email a partial patch to those who need more than 512 LDT entries right now, but, there are still some problems with my current patch, such as leaking memory at process exit. Brian From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:15:50 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA10969 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:15:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10964 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:15:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19747 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:15:33 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:15:33 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011715.MAA19747@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Converting from Linux to FreeBSD Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > My questions... >> > >> > can linux be 'upgraded' in place to freeBSD? >> >> Probably not. Certainly, in view of the requirement that you don't go >> down for long, you'd be better off installing FreeBSD on separate >> disks. That way, if you *do* experience problems, you can fall back >> to Linux quickly and painlessly. > >In particular, the Linux second stage boot code will not work for >FreeBSD, which expects the second stage boot code to pass it much >information from BIOS space that is unavailable in protected mode. > >In addition, using the FreeBSD second stage boot will not by default >recognize the unsliced partitions Linux uses as mountable as root, >nor will the kernel recognize ext2fs by default (variant root FS >types is one argument pro a bootfs). Its taking more time to discuss this issue than simply build a new system and copy stuff over! db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:17:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11180 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:17:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11173 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:17:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA09086; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:17:13 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011717.LAA09086@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:17:12 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 09:32:40 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) This is something we NEED, in order to do any sort of serious NFS service. PrestoServe style devices are handy in many scenarios in addition to NFS - news servers and other systems where lots of metadata updates are happening. I think it should probably be handled as a separate entity from the rest of this (it's not something everyone wants by a long shot). ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:22:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11498 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:22:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11493 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:22:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0ti2hS-0003wJC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 09:21 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09668; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:21:34 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:39:50 EST." <199602011539.KAA19544@etinc.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:21:32 +0100 Message-ID: <9666.823195292@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Your analysis illustrates why 80% of new businesses fail in the first > year......your understand of the costs of acquisition, inventory, marketing, > general > admin, warranties and sales is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the time > and resources against that which could be spend on much higher margin product s. > Thanks for straightening me out! Well, Dennis, some of us are still wondering how long you are going to survive with your firm grasp of "customer contact & communication" :-) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:25:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11655 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from omega.lncc.br (omega.lncc.br [146.134.8.200]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11631 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:25:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by omega.lncc.br (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA22182; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:25:21 -0200 From: imbert@omega.lncc.br (Flavio Imbert Domingos) Message-Id: <9602011725.AA22182@omega.lncc.br> Subject: videocard problem... To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:25:21 -0200 (GRNLNDDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Dear Friends, I would like to install the X11 but I am having problems to install it with a Trident TGUI9440AGi video card. Is there any the driver to it? Thanks in advance, Flavio Imbert. ********************************** Flavio Imbert Domingos e-mail: imbert@omega.lncc.br From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:26:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11715 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11710 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:26:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0ti2kr-0003xMC; Thu, 1 Feb 96 09:25 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09790; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:25:06 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:17:12 CST." <199602011717.LAA09086@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:25:04 +0100 Message-ID: <9788.823195504@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) > > This is something we NEED, in order to do any sort of serious NFS service. > PrestoServe style devices are handy in many scenarios in addition to NFS - > news servers and other systems where lots of metadata updates are happening. Not to mention what it does to anything that uses a transaction log. It doesn't even have to be particular fast, anything faster than a disk will be a gain. > I think it should probably be handled as a separate entity from the rest of > this (it's not something everyone wants by a long shot). My idea was that if you could put the sockets on the board cheaply, they you might as well just have one board layout. Remember those boards you could buy for CCI 6/32 and Pyramids with tons of old slow DRAM's on them ? They heated like hell, but you could really get some speed out of them, compared to 8" SMD disks. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:29:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA11921 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:29:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11916 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:29:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0ti2o1-0003x3C; Thu, 1 Feb 96 09:28 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09821; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:28:23 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Andrew V. Stesin" cc: toor@dyson.iquest.net (John S. Dyson), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 17:57:28 +0200." <199602011557.RAA17767@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:28:21 +0100 Message-ID: <9819.823195701@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hello John, > > # Rules of thumb like 2x or 3x kind-of don't really model what is happening. > # A better model would be "sum up the size of all of the programs that you > # are running (including malloc areas, etc)". If that is bigger 2X the > # amount of memory that you are using, then that is how much swap space you > # need, otherwise 2X memory is a good bet. > > Who can say apriory what programs and how many of them > you'll be running tomorrow? Today your'e Ok, tomorrow > you suddenly get some 15 sendmails running on the queue, > and several uuxqts, and so on, so on. > Well, be generous then :-) I have always used my own private fudge-factor: 1) No less than 32M, ever. 2) 5-10 % of the disk capacity. My laptop has 48M swap for instance. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:35:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA12270 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:35:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12257 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA09158; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:34:09 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011734.LAA09158@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:34:09 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9788.823195504@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 1, 96 06:25:04 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > > > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > > > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) > > > > This is something we NEED, in order to do any sort of serious NFS service. > > PrestoServe style devices are handy in many scenarios in addition to NFS - > > news servers and other systems where lots of metadata updates are happening. > > Not to mention what it does to anything that uses a transaction log. > > It doesn't even have to be particular fast, anything faster than a disk > will be a gain. > > > I think it should probably be handled as a separate entity from the rest of > > this (it's not something everyone wants by a long shot). > > My idea was that if you could put the sockets on the board cheaply, > they you might as well just have one board layout. Remember those > boards you could buy for CCI 6/32 and Pyramids with tons of old slow > DRAM's on them ? They heated like hell, but you could really get > some speed out of them, compared to 8" SMD disks. If it's cheap enough to do so, yes. A pair of 72-pin SIMM sockets that could take a wide variety of memory would be cool. ;-) On the other hand, if we are talking about running this across the ISA bus, it may indeed be faster to talk to the disk over a good PCI SCSI controller.. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:39:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA12529 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:39:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12524 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:38:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id LAA09182; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:37:56 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602011737.LAA09182@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: serial ports on shared irq To: didier@omnix.fr.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:37:55 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "didier@omnix.fr.org" at Jan 31, 96 08:05:25 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > hi > > is it possible to use serveral serial port on the same irq (4 port board) > > thanks Yes. Here's a "BlackBoard" something or other, similar to other 4port cards: device sio4 at isa? port 0x200 tty flags 0x0705 device sio5 at isa? port 0x208 tty flags 0x0705 device sio6 at isa? port 0x210 tty flags 0x0705 device sio7 at isa? port 0x218 tty flags 0x0705 irq 12 vector siointr Set for ports at 0x200 and interrupt 12 obviously enough. Don't forget to include COM_MULTIPORT in your options. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 09:39:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA12547 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12537 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:39:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA19783 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:38:48 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:38:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011738.MAA19783@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> Your analysis illustrates why 80% of new businesses fail in the first >> year......your understand of the costs of acquisition, inventory, marketing, >> general >> admin, warranties and sales is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the time >> and resources against that which could be spend on much higher margin product >s. >> Thanks for straightening me out! > >Well, Dennis, some of us are still wondering how long you are going to >survive with your firm grasp of "customer contact & communication" :-) I dont consider anyone on this list a customer....'cause you'd rather build something than buy it. There's nothing wrong with that, but its clear from this thread that I couldnt make anything selling to you folks....so why would I bother? Real businesses think about different things than you guys..... oh...i forgot about factoring in support and development costs....... dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 10:03:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA14289 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:03:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from dtr.com ([204.119.17.58]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA14245 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: bmk@dtr.com Received: (from bmk@localhost) by dtr.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA02004; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:52:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199602011752.JAA02004@dtr.com> Subject: Re: New version of ccd driver available To: j@uriah.heep.sax.de (J Wunsch) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 09:52:28 -0800 (PST) Cc: bmk@dtr.com, stable@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.cs.berkeley.edu In-Reply-To: <199602011258.NAA00700@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 1, 96 01:58:34 pm Reply-To: bmk@dtr.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > As bmk@dtr.com wrote: > ccdconfig > > I believe that it also should be statically linked > > Or is there something that I'm not seeing here? > Binaries built from /usr/src/sbin are automagically linked static, this > is done via the parent's Makefile.inc. Oh. Duh. I just built it in sbin/ccdconfig - so that explains why I got a dynamically linked version when I built it. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 10:15:30 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA15058 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:15:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15037 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA20448; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:16:35 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:16:35 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602011816.LAA20448@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Cc: Michael Smith , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199602011539.KAA19544@etinc.com> References: <199602011539.KAA19544@etinc.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ Michael's discussion of why Dennis is making more $$ than he let's on ] > I'm not going to get into an production argument with the great > business minds on this list! Your analysis illustrates why 80% of new > businesses fail in the first year......your understand of the costs of > acquisition, inventory, marketing, general admin, warranties and sales > is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the time and resources > against that which could be spend on much higher margin products. Hmm, I guess that's why the company I helped start up 5 years ago is doing about $5mil+/yr. in gross sales. But, it wasn't something I wanted to do as a career since all they do is build PC boards, cables and the like. :) > Thanks for straightening me out! I don't think it was intened for you so much as the rest of the list, but bviously you're the only person on the list who can understand these sorts of issues, so we should all bow to your great knowledge. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 10:20:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA15844 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:20:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15814 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:20:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com ([13.231.132.20]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <15057(14)>; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:19:22 PST Received: from gnu.mc.xerox.com (gnu.sdsp.mc.xerox.com) by gemini.sdsp.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01203; Thu, 1 Feb 96 13:19:19 EST Received: by gnu.mc.xerox.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09036; Thu, 1 Feb 96 13:19:17 EST Message-Id: <9602011819.AA09036@gnu.mc.xerox.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Jerry Kendall Cc: "Amancio Hasty Jr." , Andreas Klemm , ports@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 06:11:37 PST." <96Jan31.091819est.20485@janus.border.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:19:15 PST From: "Marty Leisner" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Instead of doing system ifdefs, I this is how LPRng does it... if defined(HAVE_SYS_NERR) # if !defined(HAVE_SYS_NERR_DEF) extern int sys_nerr; # endif # define num_errors (sys_nerr) # else # define num_errors (-1) /* always use "errno=%d" */ # endif # if defined(HAVE_SYS_ERRLIST) # if !defined(HAVE_SYS_ERRLIST_DEF) extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; # endif # else # undef num_errors # define num_errors (-1) /* always use "errno=%d" */ # endif #endif the definitions are created by configure scripts. > > > *** gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c.orig Tue Jan 30 22:44:20 1996 > > > --- gcc-2.7.2/cccp.c Tue Jan 30 22:44:40 1996 > > > *************** > > > *** 316,322 **** > > > #ifndef VMS > > > #ifndef HAVE_STRERROR > > > extern int sys_nerr; > > > ! #if defined(bsd4_4) > > > extern const char *const sys_errlist[]; > > > #else > > > extern char *sys_errlist[]; -- marty leisner@sdsp.mc.xerox.com Member of the League for Programming Freedom From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 10:38:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17231 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:38:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay1.fnet.fr (relay1.fnet.fr [192.134.192.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17218 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:38:29 -0800 (PST) From: haury@sagem.fr Received: from sagem.UUCP by relay1.fnet.fr (5.65c8d/92.02.29) via Fnet/EUnet-France id AA01737; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:38:15 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602011750.SAA05008@sagem.fr> Subject: CTM: evolutions of ctm To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:50:37 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I hope it's the right list for that and not : Have been using CTM for a while and have changed it a little bit according to Poul-Henning Kamp's future plans (Handbook 14.5.5 and sources comments). These changes seem to work (I'have been testing them for 3 weeks now with official ctm inputs on my -current tree) - I hope these patches could help the community. Evolutions : 2 new options -b path (relative or absolute) prepend on every files names -V verbose level added to current one ( -V 2 == -v -v and -V 2 -v == -v -v -v ) *and* possibility of local modifications to the tree : before working on a file , CTM first checks for the existence of the file #ctm. If this file exists, CTM works on it instead. this substitution works for : FM : CTM exits if #ctm exists (and no -F) FS : CTM substitutes the contents of file #ctm FE, FN : CTM edits #ctm FR : CTM removes *only* #ctm AS : CTM changes permissions of #ctm side effects : DR : CTM *does not* check for the existance of #ctm and the contents of before removing it. I didn't find a real good idea to manage dependencies between and #ctm with make since it seems that make : - does not understand suffix rules like %\#ctm %: production - does not check any dependencies for Makefile itself before working. So I have added several targets on the Top Makefile. The idea is : if is created then #ctm is created with null size if is modified then #ctm is created with the original content #ctm *is* the reference is produced by patching #ctm with .diff I have put the patch of the top Makefile to show you what kind of rules I use. The patch script below works on the top of the source directory and modifies : in . : Makefile: $Id: Makefile,v 1.74 1996/01/30 05:46:35 nate Exp $ in ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm : ctm.1: $Id: ctm.1,v 1.3 1996/01/31 01:58:29 nate Exp $ ctm.c: $Id: ctm.c,v 1.11 1995/05/30 03:47:19 rgrimes Exp $ ctm.h: $Id: ctm.h,v 1.7 1995/05/30 03:47:21 rgrimes Exp $ ctm_input.c: $Id: ctm_input.c,v 1.4 1994/09/22 02:49:18 phk Exp $ ctm_pass1.c: $Id: ctm_pass1.c,v 1.11 1995/07/12 09:16:08 phk Exp $ ctm_pass2.c: $Id: ctm_pass2.c,v 1.10 1995/11/10 12:17:23 phk Exp $ ctm_pass3.c: $Id: ctm_pass3.c,v 1.11 1995/07/12 09:16:13 phk Exp $ ctm_syntax.c: $Id: ctm_syntax.c,v 1.5 1995/05/30 03:47:28 rgrimes Exp $ ==== CUT HERE (and don't forget to remove my signature) ==== *** ./Makefile#ctm Wed Jan 31 20:34:35 1996 --- ./Makefile Thu Feb 1 12:08:43 1996 *************** *** 355,358 **** --- 355,414 ---- cd ${.CURDIR}/usr.sbin/zic && \ ${MAKE} depend all install ${CLEANDIR} ${OBJDIR} + # CTM Hack + + _CTM_SRC_CUR= ${.CURDIR}/../CTM/deltas + _CTM_STATUS= .ctm_status + _CTM_LIST= .ctm_list + + ctm: $(_CTM_LIST) ctm-diff + @echo "Starting CTM" + @perl -e 'while(<>){chop;$$l=$$1+1 if(/^src-cur\s+(\d+)$$/); \ + while(1){$$f="$(_CTM_SRC_CUR)/src-cur.$$l.gz"; \ + last unless -f $$f; print "$$f\n"; $$l++}}' \ + $(_CTM_STATUS) | while read file; do \ + echo ctm -V 2 $${file}; \ + ctm -V 2 $${file}; \ + done + @echo "DONE" + @echo "Starting file checking" + @perl -e 'while(<>){chop;foreach $$s ("",".diff","#ctm"){ \ + $$f="$$_$$s";print "Warning : $$f not found\n" unless -f $$f;}}' \ + $(_CTM_LIST) + @echo "DONE" + + ctm-list: + find . -name '*#ctm' -print | sed 's/#ctm$$//' > $(_CTM_LIST) + @cat $(_CTM_LIST) + + ctm-diff: + @echo "Starting DIFF" + @perl -e 'while(<>){chop;print"$$_\n" \ + if(!-f$$_.".diff"||-C$$_.".diff">-C$$_);}' \ + $(_CTM_LIST) | while read file; do \ + echo diff -c $${file}\#ctm $${file} \> $${file}.diff; \ + diff -c $${file}\#ctm $${file} > $${file}.diff \ + && ( echo "NO DIFFERENCE !!!!!"; rm -f $${file}.diff; exit 1 ) \ + || case $$? in 1);; *) exit $$?;; esac; \ + done; + @echo "DONE" + + ctm-patch: + @echo "Starting PATCH" + @perl -e 'while(<>){chop;print"$$_\n"if(!-f$$_||-C$$_>-C$$_."#ctm");}' \ + $(_CTM_LIST) | while read file; do \ + if [ -f $${file}.diff ]; then \ + dest=`basename $${file}`; \ + echo "Patching $${file} from $${file}#ctm"; \ + cp $${file}\#ctm /tmp/$${dest}; \ + patch /tmp/$${dest} $${file}.diff || exit 1; \ + mv /tmp/$${dest} $${file}; \ + rm -f /tmp/$${dest}.orig; \ + else \ + echo "No diffs to create $${file} from $${file}#ctm"; \ + exit 1; \ + fi; \ + done; + @echo "DONE" + .include *** ctm.1#ctm Thu Feb 1 16:54:55 1996 --- ctm.1 Thu Feb 1 17:49:14 1996 *************** *** 21,27 **** --- 21,29 ---- .Sh SYNOPSIS .Nm ctm .Op Fl cFpPqv + .Op Fl b Ar basedir .Op Fl T Ar tmpdir + .Op Fl V Ar level .Ar file Op ... .Sh DESCRIPTION .Nm Ctm *************** *** 53,58 **** --- 55,69 ---- command runs in a number of passes. It will process the entire input file in each pass, before commencing with the next pass. + Before working one a file + .Ar name + .Nm ctm + first checks for the existence of the file + .Ar name#ctm . + If this file exists, + .Nm ctm + works on it instead. + Pass 1 will validate that the input file is OK. The syntax, the data and the global MD5 checksum will be checked. If any of these fail, .Nm ctm *************** *** 77,82 **** --- 88,98 ---- .Bl -tag -width indent -compact + .It Fl b Ar basedir + Prepend the path + .Ar basedir + on every filename. + .It Fl c Check it out, don't do anything. *************** *** 98,103 **** --- 114,124 ---- .It Fl v Tell us more. + + .It Fl V Ar level + Tell us more. + .Ar Level + is the level of verbosity. .El *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm.c#ctm Thu Feb 1 11:10:16 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm.c Thu Feb 1 10:20:09 1996 *************** *** 14,20 **** * Options we'd like to see: * * -a Attempt best effort. - * -b Base-dir * -B Backup to tar-file. * -d Debug TBD. * -m Email me instead. --- 14,19 ---- *************** *** 22,27 **** --- 21,27 ---- * -R Read list of files to reconstruct. * * Options we have: + * -b Base-dir * -c Check it out, don't do anything. * -F Force * -p Less paranoid. *************** *** 29,34 **** --- 29,35 ---- * -q Tell us less. * -T . Temporary files. * -v Tell us more. + * -V Tell us more level = number of -v * */ *************** *** 46,61 **** int c; extern int optopt,optind; extern char * optarg; - FILE *statfile; unsigned applied = 0; Verbose = 1; Paranoid = 1; setbuf(stderr,0); setbuf(stdout,0); ! while((c=getopt(argc,argv,"ab:B:cd:Fm:pPqr:R:T:Vv")) != -1) { switch (c) { case 'c': CheckIt++; break; /* Only check it */ case 'p': Paranoid--; break; /* Less Paranoid */ case 'P': Paranoid++; break; /* More Paranoid */ --- 47,65 ---- int c; extern int optopt,optind; extern char * optarg; unsigned applied = 0; + FILE *statfile; + u_char * basedir; + basedir = NULL; Verbose = 1; Paranoid = 1; setbuf(stderr,0); setbuf(stdout,0); ! while((c=getopt(argc,argv,"ab:B:cd:Fm:pPqr:R:T:V:v")) != -1) { switch (c) { + case 'b': basedir = optarg; break; /* Base Directory */ case 'c': CheckIt++; break; /* Only check it */ case 'p': Paranoid--; break; /* Less Paranoid */ case 'P': Paranoid++; break; /* More Paranoid */ *************** *** 63,68 **** --- 67,75 ---- case 'v': Verbose++; break; /* Verbose */ case 'T': TmpDir = optarg; break; case 'F': Force = 1; break; + case 'V': sscanf(optarg,"%d", &c); /* Verbose */ + Verbose += c; + break; case ':': fprintf(stderr,"Option '%c' requires an argument.\n",optopt); stat++; *************** *** 85,92 **** argc -= optind; argv += optind; ! if((statfile = fopen(CTM_STATUS, "r")) == NULL) ! fprintf(stderr, "Warning: " CTM_STATUS " not found.\n"); else { fscanf(statfile, "%*s %u", &applied); fclose(statfile); --- 92,114 ---- argc -= optind; argv += optind; ! if (basedir == NULL) { ! Buffer = (u_char *)malloc(BUFSIZ + strlen(SUBSUFF) +1); ! CatPtr = Buffer; ! *Buffer = '\0'; ! } else { ! Buffer = (u_char *)malloc(strlen(basedir)+ BUFSIZ + strlen(SUBSUFF) +1); ! strcpy(Buffer, basedir); ! CatPtr = Buffer + strlen(basedir); ! if (CatPtr[-1] != '/') { ! strcat(Buffer, "/"); ! CatPtr++; ! } ! } ! strcat(Buffer, CTM_STATUS); ! ! if((statfile = fopen(Buffer, "r")) == NULL) ! fprintf(stderr, "Warning: %s not found.\n", Buffer); else { fscanf(statfile, "%*s %u", &applied); fclose(statfile); *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm.h#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:44:21 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm.h Wed Jan 31 16:40:52 1996 *************** *** 24,29 **** --- 24,32 ---- #define VERSION "2.0" #define MAXSIZE (1024*1024*10) + #define SUBSUFF "#ctm" + #define TMPSUFF ".ctm" + /* The fields... */ #define CTM_F_MASK 0xff #define CTM_F_Name 0x01 *************** *** 39,44 **** --- 42,48 ---- #define CTM_Q_Name_File 0x0100 #define CTM_Q_Name_Dir 0x0200 #define CTM_Q_Name_New 0x0400 + #define CTM_Q_Name_Subst 0x0800 #define CTM_Q_MD5_After 0x0100 #define CTM_Q_MD5_Before 0x0200 #define CTM_Q_MD5_Chunk 0x0400 *************** *** 63,70 **** EXTERN u_char *TimeStamp; EXTERN u_char *Prefix; EXTERN u_char *FileName; - EXTERN u_char *BaseDir; EXTERN u_char *TmpDir; /* * Paranoid -- Just in case they should be after us... --- 67,75 ---- EXTERN u_char *TimeStamp; EXTERN u_char *Prefix; EXTERN u_char *FileName; EXTERN u_char *TmpDir; + EXTERN u_char *CatPtr; + EXTERN u_char *Buffer; /* * Paranoid -- Just in case they should be after us... *************** *** 115,120 **** --- 120,126 ---- #define WRONG {Assert(); return Exit_Mess;} u_char * Ffield(FILE *fd, MD5_CTX *ctx,u_char term); + u_char * Fname(FILE *fd, MD5_CTX *ctx,u_char term,int qual, int verbose); int Fbytecnt(FILE *fd, MD5_CTX *ctx, u_char term); *************** *** 124,129 **** --- 130,136 ---- #define GETFIELDCOPY(p,q) if(!((p)=Ffield(fd,&ctx,(q)))) return BADREAD; else p=String(p) #define GETBYTECNT(p,q) if(0 >((p)= Fbytecnt(fd,&ctx,(q)))) return BADREAD #define GETDATA(p,q) if(!((p) = Fdata(fd,(q),&ctx))) return BADREAD + #define GETNAMECOPY(p,q,r,v) if(!((p)=Fname(fd,&ctx,(q),(r),(v)))) return BADREAD; else p=String(p) int Pass1(FILE *fd, unsigned applied); int Pass2(FILE *fd); *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_input.c#ctm Thu Feb 1 10:52:53 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_input.c Thu Feb 1 11:55:34 1996 *************** *** 111,113 **** --- 111,146 ---- p[u_chars] = '\0'; return p; } + + /*---------------------------------------------------------------------------*/ + /* get the filename in the next field, prepend BaseDir and give back the result + strings. The sustitute filename is return (the one with the suffix SUBSUFF) + if it exists and the qualifier contains CTM_Q_Name_Subst + NOTA: Buffer is already initialize with BaseDir, CatPtr is the insertion + point on this buffer + the length test in Ffield() is enough for Fname() */ + + u_char * + Fname(FILE *fd, MD5_CTX *ctx,u_char term,int qual, int verbose) + { + u_char * p; + struct stat st; + + if ((p = Ffield(fd,ctx,term)) == NULL) return(NULL); + + strcpy(CatPtr, p); + + if (!(qual & CTM_Q_Name_Subst)) return(Buffer); + + p = Buffer + strlen(Buffer); + + strcat(Buffer, SUBSUFF); + + if ( -1 == stat(Buffer, &st) ) { + *p = '\0'; + } else { + if(verbose > 2) + fprintf(stderr,"Using %s as substitute file\n", Buffer); + } + + return (Buffer); + } *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass1.c#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:44:21 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass1.c Thu Feb 1 09:46:04 1996 *************** *** 184,189 **** --- 184,193 ---- putc('\n',stderr); continue; } + + if(md5) Free(md5); + if(trash) Free(trash); + q = MD5End (&ctx,md5_1); if(Verbose > 2) printf("Expecting Global MD5 <%s>\n",q); *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass2.c#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:44:21 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass2.c Thu Feb 1 09:46:05 1996 *************** *** 69,75 **** switch (j & CTM_F_MASK) { case CTM_F_Name: ! GETFIELDCOPY(name,sep); /* XXX Check DR DM rec's for parent-dir */ if(j & CTM_Q_Name_New) { /* XXX Check DR FR rec's for item */ --- 69,75 ---- switch (j & CTM_F_MASK) { case CTM_F_Name: ! GETNAMECOPY(name,sep,j,0); /* XXX Check DR DM rec's for parent-dir */ if(j & CTM_Q_Name_New) { /* XXX Check DR FR rec's for item */ *************** *** 171,176 **** --- 171,181 ---- } } } + + if(trash) Free(trash); + if(name) Free(name); + if(md5) Free(md5); + q = MD5End (&ctx,md5_1); GETFIELD(p,'\n'); /* */ if(strcmp(q,p)) WRONG *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass3.c#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:44:21 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_pass3.c Thu Feb 1 09:46:06 1996 *************** *** 69,75 **** sep = '\n'; switch (j & CTM_F_MASK) { ! case CTM_F_Name: GETFIELDCOPY(name,sep); break; case CTM_F_Uid: GETFIELDCOPY(uid,sep); break; case CTM_F_Gid: GETFIELDCOPY(gid,sep); break; case CTM_F_Mode: GETFIELDCOPY(mode,sep); break; --- 69,75 ---- sep = '\n'; switch (j & CTM_F_MASK) { ! case CTM_F_Name: GETNAMECOPY(name,sep,j, Verbose); break; case CTM_F_Uid: GETFIELDCOPY(uid,sep); break; case CTM_F_Gid: GETFIELDCOPY(gid,sep); break; case CTM_F_Mode: GETFIELDCOPY(mode,sep); break; *************** *** 132,138 **** } if(!strcmp(sp->Key,"FN")) { strcpy(buf,name); ! strcat(buf,".ctm"); i = ctm_edit(trash,cnt,name,buf); if(i) { fprintf(stderr," %s %s Edit failed with code %d.\n", --- 132,138 ---- } if(!strcmp(sp->Key,"FN")) { strcpy(buf,name); ! strcat(buf,TMPSUFF); i = ctm_edit(trash,cnt,name,buf); if(i) { fprintf(stderr," %s %s Edit failed with code %d.\n", *************** *** 177,182 **** --- 177,191 ---- } WRONG } + + if(md5) Free(md5); + if(uid) Free(uid); + if(gid) Free(gid); + if(mode) Free(mode); + if(md5before) Free(md5before); + if(trash) Free(trash); + if(name) Free(name); + q = MD5End (&ctx,md5_1); GETFIELD(p,'\n'); if(strcmp(q,p)) WRONG *** ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_syntax.c#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:44:21 1996 --- ./usr.sbin/ctm/ctm/ctm_syntax.c Thu Feb 1 09:46:07 1996 *************** *** 25,52 **** #define File CTM_Q_Name_File #define Dir CTM_Q_Name_Dir #define New CTM_Q_Name_New #define After CTM_Q_MD5_After #define Before CTM_Q_MD5_Before #define Chunk CTM_Q_MD5_Chunk #define Force CTM_Q_MD5_Force static int ctmFM[] = /* File Make */ ! { Name|File|New, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|After|Chunk, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFS[] = /* File Substitute */ ! { Name|File, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|Before|Force, MD5|After|Chunk, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFE[] = /* File Edit */ ! { Name|File, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|Before, MD5|After, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFR[] = /* File Remove */ ! { Name|File, MD5|Before, 0 }; static int ctmAS[] = /* Attribute Substitute */ ! { Name, Uid, Gid, Mode, 0 }; static int ctmDM[] = /* Directory Make */ { Name|Dir|New , Uid, Gid, Mode, 0 }; --- 25,53 ---- #define File CTM_Q_Name_File #define Dir CTM_Q_Name_Dir #define New CTM_Q_Name_New + #define Subst CTM_Q_Name_Subst #define After CTM_Q_MD5_After #define Before CTM_Q_MD5_Before #define Chunk CTM_Q_MD5_Chunk #define Force CTM_Q_MD5_Force static int ctmFM[] = /* File Make */ ! { Name|File|New|Subst, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|After|Chunk, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFS[] = /* File Substitute */ ! { Name|File|Subst, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|Before|Force, MD5|After|Chunk, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFE[] = /* File Edit */ ! { Name|File|Subst, Uid, Gid, Mode, MD5|Before, MD5|After, Count, Bytes,0 }; static int ctmFR[] = /* File Remove */ ! { Name|File|Subst, MD5|Before, 0 }; static int ctmAS[] = /* Attribute Substitute */ ! { Name|Subst, Uid, Gid, Mode, 0 }; static int ctmDM[] = /* Directory Make */ { Name|Dir|New , Uid, Gid, Mode, 0 }; -- =Christian Haury (Christian.Haury@sagem.fr) --------------------------------------------------------- | SAGEM Eragny - Avenue du Gros Chene - Eragny BP 51 | | 95612 Cergy Pontoise Cedex - France | | phone : +33 (1) 34 30 53 93 | telex : 607387F | | fax : +33 (1) 34 30 50 28 | teletex : 933-130731770 | --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 11:19:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20792 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from fang.cs.sunyit.edu (fang.cs.sunyit.edu [192.52.220.66]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20782 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:19:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from chuck@localhost) by fang.cs.sunyit.edu (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA24958; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:18:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:18:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199602011918.OAA24958@fang.cs.sunyit.edu> In-Reply-To: "Matthew N. Dodd" "Re: Livingstion Portmasters" (Feb 1, 10:56am) from: chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: "Matthew N. Dodd" Subject: Re: Livingstion Portmasters Cc: freebsd-isp@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk A bit off the subject (ok, a lot off the subject) maybe we should start making a list of unimplemented ioctls. Not necessarily so that someone will fix them (although that would be nice) but more so that they are properly documented. On Feb 1, 10:56am, "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote: } Subject: Re: Livingstion Portmasters } On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Tony Harverson wrote: } > I was just wondering if anyone has the pm_console and pm_command utils } > for livingstion portmasters running under FreeBSD (or if a port is } > ever likely) } } The linux port runs under emulation. It complains about some unimplemented } ioctls and such, but it works for the most part. } } } | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | } | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | } | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| } }-- End of excerpt from "Matthew N. Dodd" -- Charles Green, PRC Inc. UN*X System Administration 22 Powell Ave. Apt. B UN*X Security & Whitesboro, NY 13492 Programming From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 11:21:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21077 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:21:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluewhale.emergent.com (bluewhale.emergent.com [140.174.2.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21068 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:21:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bluewhale.emergent.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA23294 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:21:04 -0800 Message-Id: <199602011921.LAA23294@bluewhale.emergent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bluewhale.emergent.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:21:04 -0800 From: Curt Mayer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hey, guys. here's a solution that smells much more like unix. have a daemon running on each node that is prone to hangup. this process wakes up every once in a while and does a system checkup. (stats things, pings places, looks at kernel statistics). when it see that things are ok, it sends a datagram to a particular machine, this node, the monitor, has a table in memory of all recent datagrams from each node. when a node hasn't been heard from for a while, it tells a BSR x10 controller to cycle power on the hung node. DUH. our ISP, tlg.net used to do routing and slip with sx-16's running NOS. whenever a hang happened, tlg used to do a power cycle with X10's. curt From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 11:31:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21727 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21719 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id NAA00272; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:30:25 -0600 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:30:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: mailing list account cc: Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <199602010630.AAA05865@argus.flash.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, mailing list account wrote: > Just blew the curve: 28 - 1 month... 20. Beat that. :) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:12:33 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA24834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:12:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from sponsor.octet.com (sponsor.octet.com [204.141.97.15]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24825 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:12:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from cosmos@localhost) by sponsor.octet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00435 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:59:09 GMT From: Daniel Leeds Message-Id: <199602011459.OAA00435@sponsor.octet.com> Subject: login code To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:59:09 +0000 () X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk hey, this is not for freebsd per se, but i was looking at the freebsd login.c code as a ref, but got a little confused. basically, im wondering how login executes the shell, ie if i made a simple c program is it basically just an exec of whatever shell it reads in from /etc/passwd? im basically learning how to code c here, and without all the logging and kerberos of the standard login.c, would a basic login.c (not to be used of course) be something like if [certain user id] (like root) do (setuid 0) execute login shell else do (setuid users_id) execute login shell ?? very crude and simple, but im trying to follow the logic and reconstruct a simple program similar to that. i wanna know if thats the right step to thinking or if im wrong first tho. thanks -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Daniel Leeds Unix Admin Octet Media Beatnik -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:23:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA25811 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:23:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25758 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:23:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([193.88.44.194]) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id VAA09858; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:11:59 +0100 Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA00823; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:22:10 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Joe Greco cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:30:11 CST." <199602011630.KAA08895@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:22:08 +0100 Message-ID: <821.823206128@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > I get the feeling I was barking up the right tree to begin with, but just > didn't take it far enough. Take a PC card. Stick a microprocessor on it > with two serial ports. Connect a 16450 to the PC bus as COM1:, and hard > wire it to one of the uP's serial ports. You have "serial console" > capability within FreeBSD. Connect an output line from the uP to the PC's > reset line. And decode one or two I/O locations and make them available to > the uP. > > Now: you can use the I/O location(s) to control a basic, easy-to-program > watchdog function running on the uP. In addition, you can connect a modem > (/terminal/whatever) to the uP's other serial port. You could password > protect access, which would be handy for remote sites. Once connected, > the port could just be a pass-thru to the other port, but you could use > BREAK or some other escape sequence to get access to other functions: > Well, the one feature I miss from this is this: Add (BIOS-extension) Eprom which redirects all output to the screen so that it can be used on a remote console too. (Think "bios-setup" here...) -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:31:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA26860 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA26838 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:31:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA03516; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:30:59 -0800 (PST) To: Dave Glowacki cc: Michael Smith , chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Willows In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 08:39:22 CST." <199602011439.IAA06011@tick.SSEC.WISC.EDU> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 12:30:59 -0800 Message-ID: <3514.823206659@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > It's there now. > > I registered, got instructions on FTP access, logged into ftp.willows.com > and grabbed twin-src-1.5.0.tgz (dated Feb 1. 3:10) Me too. I think it's time to form a small discussion group with the source-licensees so that we can coordinate effort? I've been talking with Larry Wagner at Willows (just got off the phone with him again) about the larger issues of redistribution and such, and there are still some hoops to jump through on that front - we'll see how it goes. The first step, however, is to get the software working and communicate the changes back to Willows. For that, we need people who've sent in their software license form (in all the *BSD camps) to talk to one another about whatever piece of the puzzle they're working on. So, anyone besides Dave and myself so far? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:32:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA27042 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from plains.nodak.edu (tinguely@plains.NoDak.edu [134.129.111.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA27037 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:32:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from tinguely@localhost) by plains.nodak.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id OAA28055 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:31:54 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:31:54 -0600 (CST) From: Mark Tinguely Message-Id: <199602012031.OAA28055@plains.nodak.edu> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Oldsters (was: Re: intested!) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > The old hacker shoes ;-) Look at the berkeley daemon at the `free the > > 4.4bsd'. They are open wooden shoes (no cloggies). Here in Hgolland often > > worn by nurses. > > And at Berkeley, just about everybody else who was to the left of Nixon. :-) ^^^^^ wasn't he that dude in that long movie. --mark "trying to be younger than I am" From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:43:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA27782 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:43:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27754 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:42:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA09021 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:43:16 GMT Message-Id: <199602012043.UAA09021@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 10:19:15 PST." <9602011819.AA09036@gnu.mc.xerox.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:43:15 +0000 From: "/home/nbc/.mail.sig" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk OK, I managed to get the new pentium optimizing gcc working, and for those interested, here are a couple of results. The first program, aspsim, is basically a ray casting program that works a bit like a simple povray; it generates synthetic range and intensity images from an ascii description file. As you can see, the speedup is remarkable with -mpentium. Could this be because of the fact that the program does a great deal of FPU operations and thus is able to take advantage of instruction ordering? The second test is a program that analyses the files produced by aspsim, and implements a version of the Extended Gaussian Image. This program exhibited less of a speedup - possibly because it concentrates more on throwing data about in memory than on floating point things? Who knows ;-) I'm going to *have* to recompile POVRay in the light of result (1)... Neil ----- Test 1 - aspsim ----- CC = gcc -c -O3 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointer /usr/bin/time aspsim besl1 512 512 1024 9.08 real 7.95 user 0.32 sys CC = pentium-unknown-freebsd-gcc -c -O3 -mpentium -fomit-frame-pointer /usr/bin/time aspsim besl1 512 512 1024 3.76 real 2.64 user 0.42 sys ----- Test 2 - egi ----- CC = gcc -c -O3 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointer /usr/bin/time egi besl1.xyz 12.45 real 6.57 user 0.66 sys CC = pentium-unknown-freebsd-gcc -c -O3 -mpentium -fomit-frame-pointer /usr/bin/time egi besl1.xyz 10.16 real 5.33 user 0.59 sys From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 12:54:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28745 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:54:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA28735 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:54:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id OAA09429; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:11 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602012052.OAA09429@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:52:11 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <821.823206128@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 1, 96 09:22:08 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > > I get the feeling I was barking up the right tree to begin with, but just > > didn't take it far enough. Take a PC card. Stick a microprocessor on it > > with two serial ports. Connect a 16450 to the PC bus as COM1:, and hard > > wire it to one of the uP's serial ports. You have "serial console" > > capability within FreeBSD. Connect an output line from the uP to the PC's > > reset line. And decode one or two I/O locations and make them available to > > the uP. > > > > Now: you can use the I/O location(s) to control a basic, easy-to-program > > watchdog function running on the uP. In addition, you can connect a modem > > (/terminal/whatever) to the uP's other serial port. You could password > > protect access, which would be handy for remote sites. Once connected, > > the port could just be a pass-thru to the other port, but you could use > > BREAK or some other escape sequence to get access to other functions: > > > > Well, the one feature I miss from this is this: > Add (BIOS-extension) Eprom which redirects all output to the > screen so that it can be used on a remote console too. (Think > "bios-setup" here...) Yes, I agree, but I have no idea whether this is do-able, feasible, or even possible. I'd certainly like that though. ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:02:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA29383 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (root@sivka.carrier.kiev.ua [193.125.68.130]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29329 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:00:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from elvisti.kiev.ua (uucp@localhost) by sivka.carrier.kiev.ua (Sendmail 8.who.cares/5) with UUCP id WAA00239 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:58:35 +0200 Received: from office.elvisti.kiev.ua (office.elvisti.kiev.ua [193.125.28.33]) by spider2.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) with ESMTP id UAA23625 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:12:28 +0200 Received: (from stesin@localhost) by office.elvisti.kiev.ua (8.6.12/8.ElVisti) id UAA07298; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:12:22 +0200 From: "Andrew V. Stesin" Message-Id: <199602011812.UAA07298@office.elvisti.kiev.ua> Subject: Re: Am I root?! or How to mirror an 'a' partition? To: rgrimes@GndRsh.aac.dev.com (Rodney W. Grimes) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:12:21 +0200 (EET) Cc: stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua, hackers@FreeBSD.org, ccd@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU In-Reply-To: <199602011624.IAA20540@GndRsh.aac.dev.com> from "Rodney W. Grimes" at Feb 1, 96 08:24:32 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24alpha5] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Hello, [...] # Because the first 16 blocks of the a partition are special, they # contain the bootblocks and disklabel. These are protected from # writes and require a special ioctl to be able to write them. # > # > dd if=/dev/rsd0a of=/dev/rsd1a bs=16b skip=1 # # Try adding a seek=1 so you skip over the first 16b of the output # device too. Skip only effects the input file. Oh, God. Shame on me. I apologize for the dumb question. Probably beer made me blind while doing RTFM on dd (1). )-; sd (4) doesn't clearly state that first 16b are R/O even if the disk is _not_ mounted at all, BTW. One need to read IOCTLS section carefully to figure the idea. Can this fact be added to the sd (4) manpage? Thanks a lot for the solution! # -- # Rod Grimes rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com # Accurate Automation Company Reliable computers for FreeBSD # -- With best regards -- Andrew Stesin. +380 (44) 2760188 +380 (44) 2713457 +380 (44) 2713560 "You may delegate authority, but not responsibility." Frank's Management Rule #1. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:15:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00290 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:15:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00242 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:14:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id WAA28898; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:00:29 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00715; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:41:39 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:41:39 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Greg Lehey cc: Paul Traina , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 In-Reply-To: <199602011000.LAA06724@nixpbe.pdb.sni.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) > >> There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're runnin > >>> g > >> under. When I did the gcc port, cc failed to compile some sources, because the correct typedef for us (FreeBSD) was only included, when bsd4_4 would have beed defined. So I had to patch the sources, to add #if defined(bsd4_4) && defined(__FreeBSD__) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I think the bsd4_4 definition should be included to make it easier to compile stuff for 4.4 BSD. It seems to me, that it's for some people common to test for bsd4_4. It would make it easier to compile those sources and would decrease the amount of modifications/ patches. > >> This gives us much finer grained control. But if other people don't accept that standard ... We can't force them to accept our "local" standard as "global" standard... > > I think that the gcc *should* define bsd4_4 (or similar). There's > > plenty of software out there which doesn't care which 4.4BSD-derived > > system you're running, and this would help, just like __386bsd__ used > > to be useful. Agreed. So I think, too. So could we meet in the middle, that we add this definition as long as it doesn't disturb us ? I only see the usefullness as __386BSD__... Please re-think Andreas /// -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:16:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00437 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA00387 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:15:58 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id WAA28911; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:00:31 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00723; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:43:30 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:43:30 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: Bruce Evans cc: bde@zeta.org.au, hasty@rah.star-gate.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jkh@time.cdrom.com, ports@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done In-Reply-To: <199602010421.PAA10372@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Bruce Evans wrote: > > > The distribution version of 2.6.3 probably couldn't compile FreeBSD > > > either. About 30K of patches are required to convert to the FreeBSD > > > version. > > >So did we roll back any of the FreeBSD required patches to the FSF?? > > Not yet. Many are local and/or poorly done so they shouldn't have been > accepted by FSF. Could you please send me the diffs, maybe I'm able to fiddle them in into gcc-2.7.2p... -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:16:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00491 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00474 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11318; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:16:42 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11776 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:16:17 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11384 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:45:44 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id UAA02117; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:18 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199602011932.UAA02117@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:17 +0100 (MET) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010813.JAA25931@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 1, 96 09:13:44 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > As Peter Dufault wrote: > > > > This may be fine for you, however you may want to make a specific > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > entry for your ESDI drives - the way the Maxtor has a match - then > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > only that particular drive will be scanned for all luns. Your guess was right, I first did a quick hack. > ...and submit it for inclusion into the official tree. Please. :) > -- > cheers, J"org But the entry needed is (based on 2.1R source): *************** *** 225,234 **** "mx1", SC_ONE_LU }, { - T_DIRECT, T_FIXED, "EMULEX", "MD21/S2", "*", - "sd", SC_MORE_LUS - }, - { T_DIRECT, T_FIXED, "*", "*", "*", "sd", SC_ONE_LU }, --- 225,230 ---- *************** *** 307,316 **** ,"any", "sd", SC_ONE_LU }, { - T_DIRECT, T_FIXED, "EMULEX", "MD21/S2 " - ,"any", "sd", SC_MORE_LUS - }, - { T_DIRECT, T_FIXED, "MAXTOR ", "XT-4170S " ,"B5A ", "mx1", SC_ONE_LU }, I don't have the Force (i.e. commit privs) so please add it to -current. Wilko _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:16:42 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00498 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (root@linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.34]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00475 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:16:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from uni4nn.iaf.nl (root@uni4nn.iaf.nl [193.67.144.33]) by linux4nn.gn.iaf.nl (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA11312; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:16:26 +0100 Received: by uni4nn.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11745 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:15:58 +0100 Received: by iafnl.es.iaf.nl with UUCP id AA11375 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4); Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:45:41 +0100 Received: (from wilko@localhost) by yedi.iaf.nl (8.6.12/8.6.6) id TAA01691; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:36:49 +0100 From: Wilko Bulte Message-Id: <199602011836.TAA01691@yedi.iaf.nl> X-Organisation: Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:36:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: terry@lambert.org, joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <5208.823117151@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Jan 31, 96 08:39:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > > ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. > > > > Nothing mandates this. > > > > > > And who but Terry would care about optimizing something like bad144 > > > anyway ??? > > > > Hello... 1024 cylinder limit... hello... old hardware... hello... > > Exactly. It works with the limitations stipulated. > > One way to do this on a 1024+ cyl disk is what I did: > > make one slice which is only for your root & swap (100 Mb ?) > > make another slice covering the rest of the disk. > > run bad144 on both. > > QED: no need to mess with the code. > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. Which indeed worked perfectly fine for me on a 1224 cyl ESDI. _ __________________________________________________________________________ | / o / / _ Wilko Bulte email: wilko@yedi.iaf.nl |/|/ / / /( (_) Private FreeBSD site - Arnhem - The Netherlands -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:28:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01361 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01345 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:28:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([193.88.44.194]) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id WAA10147; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:17:19 +0100 Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA01022; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:27:37 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: haury@sagem.fr cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CTM: evolutions of ctm In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:50:37 +0100." <199602011750.SAA05008@sagem.fr> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 22:27:37 +0100 Message-ID: <1020.823210057@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Have been using CTM for a while and have changed it a little bit according to > Poul-Henning Kamp's future plans (Handbook 14.5.5 and sources comments). > > These changes seem to work (I'have been testing them for 3 weeks now > with official ctm inputs on my -current tree) - I hope these patches could he lp > the community. They will go right into the source :-) > Evolutions : > > 2 new options > > -b path (relative or absolute) prepend on every files names GOOD! > -V verbose level added to current one ( -V 2 == -v -v and > -V 2 -v == -v -v -v ) ho hum... > *and* > possibility of local modifications to the tree : YEAHHH!!!! > before working on a file , CTM first checks for the existence > of the file #ctm. If this file exists, CTM works on it instead. > > this substitution works for : > > FM : CTM exits if #ctm exists (and no -F) > FS : CTM substitutes the contents of file #ctm > FE, FN : CTM edits #ctm > FR : CTM removes *only* #ctm > AS : CTM changes permissions of #ctm > > side effects : > DR : CTM *does not* check for the existance of #ctm and > the contents of before removing it. > > I didn't find a real good idea to manage dependencies between > and #ctm with make since it seems that make : > > - does not understand suffix rules like > %\#ctm %: > production Hmm, what if we make it .ctm then, would that be better ? > > - does not check any dependencies for Makefile itself before working. No, that would be a hard case... I'll look at your patch as soon as I can! -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:30:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01565 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01539 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13776; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:25:01 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012125.OAA13776@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Followup on LKM documentation. To: dutchman@spase.nl (Kees Jan Koster) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:25:00 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602010942.KAA01061@phobos.spase.nl> from "Kees Jan Koster" at Feb 1, 96 10:42:30 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I just asked for documentation on LKM. > > I forgot to mention that maybe it's better to mail the stuff to me > directly. That would save hackers' bandwidth. I'll dump all the stuff > I get into a single big.tgz.uue and post it on hackers' later. I wrote a large chunk of ducumentation including sample code when I wrote LKM originally. I think the NetBSD distribution still has all this information lying around (/usr/share/src? dunno...). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:31:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01663 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:31:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01653 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:31:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13735; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:18:22 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012118.OAA13735@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:18:22 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602010748.IAA25596@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 1, 96 08:48:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > 3) Anyone who has sector sparing off on their SCSI drives so they > > can use spindle-sync with a ccd driver without losing rotations, > > so they have to substitute BAD144 or similar software sparing. > > Can you elaborate in not more than 10 lines? I don't see why somebody > has to turn off sector sparing in order to use spindle sync. In less than 10 lines: "identical drives" does not mean that the bad spots are in the same location on each drive. That is, for spindle sync applications, you will probably want to map out the bad spot of one drive on both drives and present "logically perfect" media above the spindle-sync driver, or spindle-sync won't do you much good. The same arguments apply to zone expansion relocating track-to-track seek locations on ZBR drives. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:37:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02210 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:37:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02205 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:37:22 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13787; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:29:25 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012129.OAA13787@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Good news -- pipe stuff To: dfr@render.com (Doug Rabson) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:29:25 -0700 (MST) Cc: hasty@rah.star-gate.com, lehey.pad@sni.de, tinguely@plains.nodak.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Doug Rabson" at Feb 1, 96 12:56:53 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > Personally, I would prefer that Intel made byte and halfword memory > operations go as fast as 32bit operations. As far as I am concerned, the > two most useful pixel formats for 3D rendering are 8bit and 16bit. The > image quality gain for 32bit pixels is never enough to justify doubling > the memory bandwidth requirements. > > The first set of 3d hardware is a bit disappointing but its not too bad. > The second wave should be excellent. Intel's MMX instruction set > extensions make a P5 into a pretty good 3D accelerator too... I'd like to see unaligned acces of data cache items done with address space shift replication. That way I could do 32 bit I/O to the cache (re: Pentium bcopy) and not take a hit for unaligned source/target addresses. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:38:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02278 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:38:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02272 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA13751; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:20:36 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012120.OAA13751@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:20:36 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010754.IAA25720@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 1, 96 08:54:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > The kernel doesn't automount swap _slices_ at all, and even swap > _partitions_ are not automounted at all. They are only mounted with > an explicit swapon(8) early in /etc/rc. What's with the crap in /sys/i386/i386/machdep.c and the kernel config file, then? > > The default installation tools "mandate" this. > > No. I've installed a system a couple of days ago. The swap partition > was the fourth partition, even though the installation program > assigned it to the partition `b' (as i was expecting). And that was > my point: the name is in no way related to the location on the disk. > For sysinstall, the location on the disk does simply correlate to a > ``first entered, first on disk'' scenario. Nobody tells you that you > gotta assign a swap partition right after assigning root. They used to mandate this. The "mandate" this when you hit "A" for "auto". Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 13:52:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03269 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:52:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk [130.159.232.158]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03254 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10294 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:52:04 GMT Message-Id: <199602012152.VAA10294@vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk> X-Authentication-Warning: vulture.dmem.strath.ac.uk: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Pentium gcc port done Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:52:04 +0000 From: "/home/nbc/.mail.sig" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk OK, here are some quick povray benchmarks; Not too bad eh! Neil --- standard port distribution CFLAGS = -O /usr/bin/time povray +I lamp.pov +W320 +H256 -D +A 232.54 real 138.94 user 0.14 sys --- standard port with -mpentium CFLAGS = -O -mpentium /usr/bin/time povray +I lamp.pov +W320 +H256 -D +A 86.81 real 81.91 user 0.22 sys --- standard port with more opts. CFLAGS = -O3 -mpentium -fomit-frame-pointer /usr/bin/time povray +I lamp.pov +W320 +H256 -D +A 84.29 real 79.05 user 0.14 sys From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 14:06:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA04516 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:06:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA04501 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:06:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA13856; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:00:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012200.PAA13856@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:00:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602010115.LAA20591@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 1, 96 11:45:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > So far the wish list is : > > - Watchdog. > - High-resolution timer. > - POST decoder. > - NV console buffer. > > (- Prestoserv. *laugh*) > > Anything else people want? Maybe a soft-serve interface? 8) A bus-mastering DMA board with a POST rom and some LED's that light up with: ISA card: LED 1 (green): L1 cache updated after DMA \ LED 2 (yellow): L1 cache invalidated after DMA > Use tricolor LEDs? LED 3 (red): L1 cache invalid after DMA / LED 4 (green): L2 cache updated after DMA \ LED 5 (yellow): L2 cache invalidated after DMA > Use tricolor LEDs? LED 6 (red): L2 cache invalid after DMA / EISA card: LED 7 (red): EISA bus does not support DMA above 16M Plug in and power on to decide if you want to buy the box, or to find the problem with a customer's box... Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only motherboard? 6 (or more) PCI slots No frigging ISA slots. No frigging IDE interface. Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) NCR53C8xx SCSI on board DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller FIFO'ed floppy controller S3964 PCI video(?) bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) OpenFirmware boot ROMs Some good clock hardware Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) I'd probably throw multiport serial and/or ethernet cards in the 6 PCI slots. 8-). Does Matrox sell the Meteor chipset? Who sells MPEG chips? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 14:27:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA06118 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06112 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:27:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id JAA25098; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:12:19 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602012242.JAA25098@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:12:18 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011539.KAA19544@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Feb 1, 96 10:39:50 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk dennis stands accused of saying: > > > >At $140, that's ~$80 for margin and overheads, which is a reasonable price > >depending on how many you move. Just don't cry poor about it, ok? 8) > I'm not going to get into an production argument with the great > business minds on this list! Your analysis illustrates why 80% of > new businesses fail in the first year......your understand of the > costs of acquisition, inventory, marketing, general admin, > warranties and sales is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the > time and resources against that which could be spend on much higher > margin products. Thanks for straightening me out! Sheesh Dennis. I should explain (painfully) what I do for a living, and why I have a pretty good idea of what circuit designs cost, and then observe that I left over 50% of your take for 'overheads'. Just for laughs, I got a quote from a local design agency that I do a fair amount of work for; they ballparked the design at ~$800 including software and three working prototypes. Like I said, your price is reasonable; just don't go assuming that the rest of us are idiots that should swallow your every word as gospel. It makes it very hard to tell the difference between the things you _do_ know about (which are worth hearing) and those that are just your opinions. > Dennis -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 14:47:06 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07496 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:47:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (rah.star-gate.com [204.188.121.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07486 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:47:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from rah.star-gate.com (localhost.v-site.net [127.0.0.1]) by rah.star-gate.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id OAA02062; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:43:44 -0800 Message-Id: <199602012243.OAA02062@rah.star-gate.com> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.5 12/11/95 To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: mailing list account , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 13:30:25 CST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 14:43:43 -0800 From: "Amancio Hasty Jr." Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >>> "Matthew N. Dodd" said: > On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, mailing list account wrote: > > Just blew the curve: 28 - 1 month... > > 20. Beat that. :) Isn't illegal in California for people younger than 21 to be hacking ? 8) Amancio From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 14:51:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07834 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:51:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07813 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA14011; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:45:45 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602012245.PAA14011@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Willows To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:45:45 -0700 (MST) Cc: dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <3514.823206659@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 12:30:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > For that, we > need people who've sent in their software license form (in all the > *BSD camps) to talk to one another about whatever piece of the puzzle > they're working on. > > So, anyone besides Dave and myself so far? Me, of course. Maybe there should be a seperate mailing list? Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 15:03:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA08628 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:03:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from sasami.jurai.net (root@sasami.jurai.net [205.218.122.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08622 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from winter@localhost) by sasami.jurai.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA07359; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:03:48 -0600 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:03:47 -0600 (CST) From: "Matthew N. Dodd" X-Sender: winter@sasami To: "Amancio Hasty Jr." cc: mailing list account , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: <199602012243.OAA02062@rah.star-gate.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Amancio Hasty Jr. wrote: > >>> "Matthew N. Dodd" said: > > On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, mailing list account wrote: > > > Just blew the curve: 28 - 1 month... > > 20. Beat that. :) > Isn't illegal in California for people younger than 21 to be hacking ? 8) Good thing I'm not in California then. (moved after the 2nd grade :) | Matthew N. Dodd | winter@jurai.net | http://www.jurai.net/~winter | | Technical Manager | mdodd@intersurf.net | http://www.intersurf.net | | InterSurf Online | "Welcome to the net Sir, would you like a handbasket?"| From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 15:08:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA09061 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09056 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:08:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA21816; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:10:49 -0700 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:10:49 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602012310.QAA21816@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Terry Lambert Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199602012200.PAA13856@phaeton.artisoft.com> References: <199602010115.LAA20591@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> <199602012200.PAA13856@phaeton.artisoft.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only > motherboard? > > 6 (or more) PCI slots > No frigging ISA slots. .... > I'd probably throw multiport serial and/or ethernet cards in the 6 > PCI slots. 8-). I don't think such a thing exists. A PCI-slot has one and only one IRQ associated with it, so you generally don't have multi-port PCI cards, hence the reason for having ISA slots (+ backward's compatability). I remember having this conversation with Rod a while back. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 15:32:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10739 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:32:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10732 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:32:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04953; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:31:23 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199602012331.PAA04953@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: Any interest in Quickcam Driver To: jerry@border.com (Jerry Kendall) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:31:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: pst@Shockwave.COM, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb1.091023est.20494@janus.border.com> from "Jerry Kendall" at Feb 1, 96 09:03:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > I have xfqcam.... I don't remember seeing and mention of FreeBSD diffs > though.... Anyone know where they are??? Try these... but note: if you have problems with it saying "no camera found" then hack qc_find() and hardwire the correct return value (usually 0x378). I hope no one is offended by my posting this patch to the mailing list... it's 50 lines worth. -Archie begin 644 xfqcam-1.02.diffs.gz M'XL(""W:#C$"`WAF<6-A;2TQ+C`R+F1I9F9S`-U:>V^C2!+_F_T4%<]J%FP< MH,'83B:1=O*8RZVSHYULM)$N)\N/)D%C@X='XMPIWWVKNX$`QK$SL2?2>D:. M:8IZ_JJZNIMZO0[G@Z_4<2=TUP_<&^EB$,&_!QZ0-A!S3]?W=!.,;M?^J=EL M9J0EJA8C%%3UXH==@Z&V@%\`O/MI!XY.>[]^NCAH_C683*#Y&7Z6+R].+OYU MKN!]1C+RIU/J1>#'$42W%#PZCX#`Q/5H"*X##WX<`!+-XH@&,/9QU/,CN!W< M40AO!P$=PY1._>`!F5TAWY/SWMG'@^;D"OEP*Y@^^+=9J<_,G5%H3JV.C;J1 M)^6@>:;%8:!=&<876W.]T20>TQ^A<:5'+97HJ4_Q_]SY-AI,]Y*_NSX*\Z+` MG\P&'IW@)9)(/\M'1PK:TSOF]J)!?D*_]+%F;Q?@&ETD25*SES-_X@ZA.7'\ M8!HBQTQEY#E!`OR>@E!L3&?4&^_M(=51_^++T04+LA2BP;]HU^_8/SCF)-0; MN334OOT"'S*4P2%$TUE_BI_2Y`.']!"[2J.W,GN[>'"C:_T(7R8EN_$GAM& M8S;:P%%G3!WHN5X\+Q`-PJGF^@D1NL1U)*TNZ*"NX>#3P_W^:4#IQXOC?I\/ M)BQJ6O@0:J[9R?)2&\UB)_9&N[B=0'],[U]_'2Q=+L^O/:#"5E7VD8-??8G?T%7.ES\(/!Z"G-[C2@Y"- MF20='&+FW498S4,<-JS._I*JW%:-5B>-'6+H#R;E"&O-*8(Q0D2$2\'PS(>! M+XP&D3N".]\=0T!#&O53"V2F(,4SF32THMD]!DR@,<4:D;+5@V[G4;VS1S$"\&B M@Y+AM1R4T*YR4$JVAH,J$=4U<,HS4T1)V$O(8SJ,;Q0^N4G.+$#C'!FK+`T" M%6KW`S=RO1M>>-!T&@P@\B$QJ8;=E> M'?AU;*^:F0!)Z7F0H->&VQ*'$GSR5CT5&<-4>(A0BQ,X2\S.[J,K%)NY?,$*^S MNS+^./D2V\K5D&3*9--CB'W?\"&B,J23IH5U1E'I@$9Q MX(%\0R.AM9A2BVT"L5LJ:9NYG'ZQIKE6'TJ3]CJCZVA:V;M;AFJVC&R^9LJ. MIF,9>]2KTY,OYY^/3U1Y[-VBKW(9O`U?5>*L9:+OVAG.I/HP=M!5C0;R'\YF5N3C MM_V?H7%X:/UW_UD2DI$\_HC0YT4LB\O+P[(0E52$4RWB4=05OEKX1",;77$V M'=S02\^5^9R0>$L14+6):K;M#*J;=/>6T9,7L45WIR)>[>Y*M+?1_1VRD:I: M-Q7-*M>*?U!1[>`$U#4V4E2K7?7/K:D="UW7S=74:#@3Z6OLEP;(CZN7"TOU M-ZJ8$AJ/G"-,U#)LO%Q"^+LA:+(UF:\?=^,!;>N:^2(Q:R M,LB"CCG'2!?*AB*\^QP+ODE-#-4BV<[AYHS+K?#?Q+C*2!+,&-*M[NYL7!?E MI>FZXRC[2\@2NL-#Z"AEZD)LG5>9GPEZ+\Q.[$_V7U8'UT3DFIWJ]FJS]N9V M6][&WLIXFY9J6=;R>&_"_,?23E^E^2NL7XWUYQBL,<>(17>R`?8HP&%A,K3, MY>#8F'-6E8)M.V?51%%R3A62.FU#[>!")3M)ZW1TM=/--M'9A\[=2!;3EFC, MI64'K,#>79!E?HZ&:CO^C'IR3<-KS?5K*M2"1DU1X.``?K_L]=B69(-+F-$@ MP/);XP]`2J_L)[>Y`GIR^?C0LI_3N4X8XI#.((.]F(CB)^"B2) MV;K\B(@#:7?@_7NHN&,NOS,<52]*#!W7X/CU5*9+ITX5$.$N/T'SK_YRO;%_ M'\H\\GPXV6_2BP=FNMU%(>VGVOC=0@"P7 M$=%.,)E$DV.R^#9%Y4L+AKFG6T\O+10?6*0U6L^]6F3GCEO9837P8V$WXL?O MK%;?4(\&@XB.X=Z-;@%QSO9^=Y,S_=Q!=BTYQ*ZM/L0^/>YG)Y?U44"1?9\] ?G8W*;*FK)&\;V;D#S]>I^,*S]G75_!O@-+D8!B8``,0^ ` end _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 15:38:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10999 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:38:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from bubba.tribe.com ([205.184.207.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10994 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:38:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from archie@localhost) by bubba.tribe.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04990; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:37:10 -0800 From: Archie Cobbs Message-Id: <199602012337.PAA04990@bubba.tribe.com> Subject: Re: Paper on writing network driver To: mbarkah@hemi.com (Ade Barkah) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:37:09 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010406.VAA27555@hemi.com> from "Ade Barkah" at Jan 31, 96 09:06:47 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Can someone point me to a paper/discussion/text/anything regarding > writing a network device driver for FreeBSD ? I'd like to learn Try out http://freefall.cdrom.com/~erich/ddwg/ddwg.html for starters. -Archie _______________________________________________________________________________ Archie L. Cobbs, archie@tribe.com * Tribe Computer Works http://www.tribe.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 16:08:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA13073 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:08:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA13059 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:08:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by Sysiphos id AA07444 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for hackers@freebsd.org); Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:07:25 +0100 Message-Id: <199602020007.AA07444@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 01:07:24 +0100 In-Reply-To: Christoph Kukulies "Re: Hackers ages" (Feb 1, 9:25) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: Christoph Kukulies Subject: Re: Hackers ages Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 1, 9:25, Christoph Kukulies wrote: } Subject: Re: Hackers ages } > } > } > I'm almost a hacker and I'm 44 years. } } I'm almost a hacker too and I'm almost 49 :-) } And I'm grandfather since Dec 25th,1995. If you have forgotten, } Hackers from the September Hackers meeting in Aachen, my } daughter was pregnant at that time. And... it's not a } little daemon :-) (like in Polansky's "Rosemarie's Baby"), } it's a girl, named Stella Laura. Congrats to all involved ! :) Those of us who met at your house certainly will remember well ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 16:26:46 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14492 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:26:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14479 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:26:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA25333; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:07:23 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020037.LAA25333@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:07:22 +1030 (CST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602012310.QAA21816@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 1, 96 04:10:49 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Nate Williams stands accused of saying: > > I'd probably throw multiport serial and/or ethernet cards in the 6 > > PCI slots. 8-). > > I don't think such a thing exists. A PCI-slot has one and only one IRQ > associated with it, so you generally don't have multi-port PCI cards, > hence the reason for having ISA slots (+ backward's compatability). IIRC, Cyclades have PCI multiport card. Most multiport ISA cards only generate one IRQ; they just have a register on the card that indicates which source(s) are interrupting. Multiport PCI ethernet cards usually hide the devices behind another PCI bridge as I understand it. > Nate -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 16:28:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA14689 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14680 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:28:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA07989 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:27:52 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 1 Feb 96 18:27 CST Message-Id: Subject: And the winner is! To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:27:33 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi folks! Question for 'ya: If you were setting up a "code server", and wanted to start trying to automate an update process for FreeBSD to be used in a production web environment (yes, I'm serious): a) What code base would you use? Pointers to supfiles please; I have the one for -STABLE, but I bet its out of date. I know the "our philosphy is that STABLE is..." stuff; I want to know from the people using FreeBSD now what is the *best* code base you have. Future changes via SUP are fine, assume I'm not stupid and know how to use things like compilers :-) b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there is a spare machine that I can "burn" to have a code base loaded on (that can be replicated FROM), but that there may be differences in the hardware (ie: ethernet cards, disk capacities, etc) c) Has the "I need to load 'package y' without wiping the box", and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right values!" problem that has plagued FreeBSD been solved? It is TRIVIAL to get BSDI to set up a new disk (disksetup does it all). Last time I looked closely FreeBSD was a bitch. Still true? d) How about stability in general? PCI Ethernet card drivers? PCI disk drivers? NFS stability problems (we used to have those up the wazoo). Support for >64M without kludges? Any surprises I should expect (and benefits of current .vs. stable, etc)? Why these questions? I've had it -- again -- with BSDI. So we're back out plowing around in the other alternatives looking for the diamond in the rough. To be fair, we have a couple of FreeBSD machines running now -- including a VERY busy news server -- which work just fine, even under heavy punishment. The 2742 EISA disk drive is still rough around the edges; I hope the Adaptec PCI driver works..... :-) If I'm going to have an unsupported OS, damnit, then I'm going to KNOW its unsupported and not pay for support! I don't mind doing my own qualification for use, but when I can't get support in a reasonable timeframe on what is supposed to be a commercial product, I'm done. Thanks in advance! -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 16:58:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA16993 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:58:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA16988 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:58:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA25538; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:37:57 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020107.LAA25538@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:37:57 +1030 (CST) Cc: phk@critter.tfs.com, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602012052.OAA09429@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 1, 96 02:52:11 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > Well, the one feature I miss from this is this: > > Add (BIOS-extension) Eprom which redirects all output to the > > screen so that it can be used on a remote console too. (Think > > "bios-setup" here...) > > Yes, I agree, but I have no idea whether this is do-able, feasible, or even > possible. I'd certainly like that though. Serial video card 8) I don't know whether the BIOS makes assumtions about 6845 CRTC registers or not that early. There's obviously a ROM scan first though (note the video BIOS signs on before the main BIOS). Anyone out there ever written a video BIOS? > ... JG -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:04:43 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17688 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:04:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA17681 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:04:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA25593; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:28 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020119.LAA25593@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:49:28 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602010721.XAA06480@netcom22.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Jan 31, 96 11:21:48 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bakul Shah stands accused of saying: > > May be one of those single board computers (aka SBC) built > around a 286 will do the trick? 2ser+1par+memory+cpu etc. > are all on an ISA card and you can plug one or more of these > in an ISA `passive backplane'. If you are in the SF Bay I can think of better and cheaper ways to make smoke with my computer. Stuffing alfoil into the ISA slots comes to mind. > Another alternative is to use a robotics board like a > `miniboard' or a `handyboard'. Both are designed by Fred > Martin of MIT Media Labs. Handyboard has 32K battery backed > SRAM. Other than that they are fairly similar. They are > based on mc68hc11 which is an 8 bitter with on chip EEROM > (or PROM) + some RAM, timers, serial I/O, 8 analog inputs, > many digital input/outputs etc. With suitable sensors you IIRC, these guys are F1-based. Try getting P&A on an F1 these days. Seriously, you're wandering into gross overkill here. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:09:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA18128 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:09:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (aspen.woc.atinc.com [198.138.38.205]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18106 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jmb@localhost) by Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM (8.6.12/8.6.9) id UAA29295; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:08:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:08:10 -0500 (EST) From: "Jonathan M. Bresler" X-Sender: jmb@Aspen.Woc.Atinc.COM To: Terry Lambert cc: "Jordan K. Hubbard" , dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Willows In-Reply-To: <199602012245.PAA14011@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > For that, we > > need people who've sent in their software license form (in all the > > *BSD camps) to talk to one another about whatever piece of the puzzle > > they're working on. > > > > So, anyone besides Dave and myself so far? > > Me, of course. > > Maybe there should be a seperate mailing list? ya nearly got me there, terry. a mailing list for 3 soon to 5 people, yuck, yuck, yuck. how about using chat till the list grows? seriously....chat is very low volume. Jonathan M. Bresler FreeBSD Postmaster jmb@FreeBSD.ORG play go. ride bike. hack FreeBSD.--ah the good life i am moving to a new job. PLEASE USE: jmb@FreeBSD.ORG From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:13:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA18612 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:13:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18591 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA14306; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:11:00 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602020111.SAA14306@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Willows To: jmb@FreeBSD.org (Jonathan M. Bresler) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:10:59 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@FreeBSD.org, questions@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Jonathan M. Bresler" at Feb 1, 96 08:08:10 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > For that, we > > > need people who've sent in their software license form (in all the > > > *BSD camps) to talk to one another about whatever piece of the puzzle > > > they're working on. > > > > > > So, anyone besides Dave and myself so far? > > > > Me, of course. > > > > Maybe there should be a seperate mailing list? > > ya nearly got me there, terry. a mailing list for 3 soon to 5 > people, yuck, yuck, yuck. > > how about using chat till the list grows? seriously....chat is > very low volume. Or big CC lines, like this one... Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:18:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19095 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:18:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA19087 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:18:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA25664; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:02:27 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020132.MAA25664@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:02:26 +1030 (CST) Cc: dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <4664.823163192@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 00:26:32 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Jordan K. Hubbard stands accused of saying: > > Actually, I kind of liked the idea of letting it grab ahold of the > bus. It seems that a lot of problems one runs into in PCs these days > stem from individual cards or chipsets not *quite* playing by the > rules, and at times like that you really do want to watch every IRQ > line and have little service routines that are called when one changes > state, or whatever. It's the only way to tell if someone's bogusly > generating an interrupt, or to generate one yourself if you're trying > to simulate some weird peripheral. Eww! I can just see it now; it occupies three slots, is covered with surface-mount ECL parts and radiates enough heat to be illegal in Eskimo dwellings 8) > I can also see where maybe you just want to design a dumb card that > enables one PC to take over another. Then your PC on a card can just > be a PC on a PC. :-) All the intelligence would be in the device > driver. No can do. Think about the address buffers for example. > Jordan -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:22:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19585 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA19547 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:22:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA25688; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:06:20 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020136.MAA25688@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Willows To: brians@mandor.dev.com (Brian Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:06:19 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org, questions@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011702.JAA24365@mandor.dev.com> from "Brian Smith" at Feb 1, 96 09:02:15 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Brian Smith stands accused of saying: > > > >User-LDT access is already available; we have dlopen & friends, anyone > >care to comment about what happens when a process generates an interrupt? > > The User-LDT even in current is broken in a couple of ways. It was imported > from NetBSD a while back, so I just ftp'ed NetBSD kernel src last night to > determine what needs to be changed. Your first problem will be that it > doesn't allocate enough space for the full 8192 possible LDT entries. > > I'll email a partial patch to those who need more than 512 LDT entries > right now, but, there are still some problems with my current patch, such > as leaking memory at process exit. Definitely. You're nominated as the LDT expert for the Willows port. Congratulations! 8) > Brian -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:23:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19679 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:23:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19660 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:23:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA14342; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:17:27 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602020117.SAA14342@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: nate@sri.MT.net (Nate Williams) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:17:27 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602012310.QAA21816@rocky.sri.MT.net> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 1, 96 04:10:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > I'd probably throw multiport serial and/or ethernet cards in the 6 > > PCI slots. 8-). > > I don't think such a thing exists. A PCI-slot has one and only one IRQ > associated with it, so you generally don't have multi-port PCI cards, > hence the reason for having ISA slots (+ backward's compatability). > > I remember having this conversation with Rod a while back. PCI can do interrupt sharing (edge vs. level). Presumably, you'd also know how to design boards (unlike ISA manufacturers) and you would put $1 of multiplexing logic on the board. I know Cisco has a PCI router board that does this. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:26:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA19965 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19951 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA14358; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:18:40 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602020118.SAA14358@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:18:40 -0700 (MST) Cc: nate@sri.MT.net, terry@lambert.org, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199602020037.LAA25333@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 2, 96 11:07:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Multiport PCI ethernet cards usually hide the devices behind another PCI > bridge as I understand it. Yes. The 1.0 PCi-PCI bridge spec first came with the 2.1 PCI spec. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 17:30:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA20235 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA20230 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 17:30:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA25721; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:13:56 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020143.MAA25721@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:13:55 +1030 (CST) Cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com, dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011630.KAA08895@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 1, 96 10:30:11 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > I get the feeling I was barking up the right tree to begin with, but just > didn't take it far enough. Take a PC card. Stick a microprocessor on it > with two serial ports. Connect a 16450 to the PC bus as COM1:, and hard > wire it to one of the uP's serial ports. You have "serial console" > capability within FreeBSD. Connect an output line from the uP to the PC's > reset line. And decode one or two I/O locations and make them available to > the uP. If you're going to decode the I/O's already, don't bother with the UART. I have a rough schematic for this already, and I'll work on it when I can; keep the ideas coming 8) > o See log of recent events (maybe a 10K buffer that saves FreeBSD's console > output and writes an appropriate marker if'n'when a watchdog RESET > happens, etc). 32/64K battery-backed SRAM at the moment. > Depending on the choice of uP and its I/O capabilities, one might > conceivably consider adding multiple point temperature monitoring and/or > voltage monitoring as well. 8 AD inputs; conditioning for various sensors is a problem though. > Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 18:34:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA23514 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:34:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23505 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA13290; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:20 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Thu, 1 Feb 96 20:32 CST Message-Id: Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:32:02 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: dennis@etinc.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9666.823195292@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 1, 96 06:21:32 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Your analysis illustrates why 80% of new businesses fail in the first > > year......your understand of the costs of acquisition, inventory, marketing, > > general > > admin, warranties and sales is quite amazing! Plus you have to weigh the time > > and resources against that which could be spend on much higher margin product > s. > > Thanks for straightening me out! > > Well, Dennis, some of us are still wondering how long you are going to > survive with your firm grasp of "customer contact & communication" :-) > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. > http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. I disagree. Being direct and to the point, without deceit or obfuscation, is a POSITIVE trait. I do business with people like this, and prefer if others do as well. I respect the person who doesn't feel the need to sugar coat their statements for "glitter" value, especially when they're right. If you take unwarranted cheap shots (and these were) at such a person, this is a perfectly proper and measured response. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 18:52:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA24741 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from spooky.rwwa.com (rwwa.com [198.115.177.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24736 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 18:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spooky.rwwa.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA25630; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:15:20 -0500 Message-Id: <199602020215.VAA25630@spooky.rwwa.com> X-Authentication-Warning: spooky.rwwa.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol X-Mailer: exmh version 1.5.3 12/28/94 To: Poul-Henning Kamp cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 31 Jan 1996 21:32:40 +0100." <5377.823120360@critter.tfs.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:15:20 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion > for a ISA card: > > The "FreeBSD gadget": How about adding a 1pps input for xntpd. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, Tel: +1 617 592 8935, Net: witr@rwwa.COM From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 19:20:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA26806 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26792 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:20:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id WAA00526; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:19:21 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:19:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: stable@freebsd.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I expect. The next line doesn't come, just a panic, and the reboot is so quick, that I can barely focus on the screen to start writing before it reboots (doesn't feel like the 15secs it says) So, the question is, are there any known problems with the driver in -stable, or anywhere that I should be looking for where the problem is? I don't know if maybe I've left out something from my kernel, included is my config file for the current kernel: # # GENERIC -- Generic machine with WD/AHx/NCR/BTx family disks # # $Id: GENERIC,v 1.46.2.8 1996/01/20 06:13:20 nate Exp $ # machine "i386" cpu "I486_CPU" ident kinet maxusers 10 options MATH_EMULATE #Support for x87 emulation options INET #InterNETworking options FFS #Berkeley Fast Filesystem options NFS #Network Filesystem options PROCFS #Process filesystem options "COMPAT_43" #Compatible with BSD 4.3 options "SCSI_DELAY=15" #Be pessimistic about Joe SCSI device options BOUNCE_BUFFERS #include support for DMA bounce buffers options UCONSOLE #Allow users to grab the console options SYSVSHM options SYSVSEM options SYSVMSG config kernel root on sd0 controller isa0 controller eisa0 controller pci0 controller fdc0 at isa? port "IO_FD1" bio irq 6 drq 2 vector fdintr disk fd0 at fdc0 drive 0 disk fd1 at fdc0 drive 1 controller ncr0 controller ahb0 controller ahc0 controller ahc1 controller bt0 at isa? port "IO_BT0" bio irq ? vector bt_isa_intr controller uha0 at isa? port "IO_UHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector uhaintr controller aha0 at isa? port "IO_AHA0" bio irq ? drq 5 vector ahaintr controller aic0 at isa? port 0x340 bio irq 11 vector aicintr controller nca0 at isa? port 0x1f88 bio irq 10 vector ncaintr controller nca1 at isa? port 0x350 bio irq 5 vector ncaintr controller sea0 at isa? bio irq 5 iomem 0xc8000 iosiz 0x2000 vector seaintr controller scbus0 device sd0 device st0 # syscons is the default console driver, resembling an SCO console #device sc0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector scintr # Enable this and PCVT_FREEBSD for pcvt vt220 compatible console driver device vt0 at isa? port "IO_KBD" tty irq 1 vector pcrint options "PCVT_FREEBSD=210" # pcvt running on FreeBSD 2.1 options XSERVER # include code for XFree86 # Mandatory, don't remove device npx0 at isa? port "IO_NPX" irq 13 vector npxintr device sio0 at isa? port "IO_COM1" tty irq 4 vector siointr device sio1 at isa? port "IO_COM2" tty irq 3 vector siointr device lpt0 at isa? port? tty irq 7 vector lptintr # Order is important here due to intrusive probes, do *not* alphabetize # this list of network interfaces until the probes have been fixed. # Right now it appears that the ie0 must be probed before ep0. See # revision 1.20 of this file. device ep0 at isa? port 0x300 net irq 10 vector epintr pseudo-device loop pseudo-device ether pseudo-device log pseudo-device sl 1 # ijppp uses tun instead of ppp device #pseudo-device ppp 1 pseudo-device tun 1 pseudo-device pty 16 pseudo-device gzip # Exec gzipped a.out's Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 19:32:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA27671 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA27663 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA00702; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:20 -0800 (PST) To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:27:33 CST." Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 19:32:20 -0800 Message-ID: <700.823231940@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > a) What code base would you use? Pointers to supfiles please; > I have the one for -STABLE, but I bet its out of date. I To be honest, I'd probably start supping the CVS tree to some local location on your site and just check a -stable tree out of it for your builds. This gives you the highest degree of flexibility should something pop up in -current which turns out to be the answer to some prayer and you need to do a little mucking around with CVS in order to merge it across into your -stable tree. > b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, > but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there You want to be able to stamp out multiple machines from one build, or..? I'm afraid that "replication" is a little ambiguous in this context. Due to a number of historical bogons in our build process, I still recommend that each and every machine have its own copy of /usr/src, the problems with shared obj links otherwise becoming a real pain. > c) Has the "I need to load 'package y' without wiping the box", You can load packages and distributions fairly painlessly post-install, if that's what you mean. > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right That's still kind of rough, yes. > d) How about stability in general? PCI Ethernet card drivers? > PCI disk drivers? NFS stability problems (we used to have > those up the wazoo). Support for >64M without kludges? Any > surprises I should expect (and benefits of current .vs. > stable, etc)? Stability in general is good. PCI ethernet drivers good. PCI disk drivers, getting better. NFS stability problems are bad. Most people trying to seriously beat up on NFS find that it beats back. A lack of NFS experts with spare time is a big problem for us right now or we'd fix it. > If I'm going to have an unsupported OS, damnit, then I'm going to KNOW its > unsupported and not pay for support! I don't mind doing my own qualification One thing I might suggest is hiring in some local talent who finds the idea of hacking on free software cool, for god knows whatever reason, and can provide you with at least one source of immediate recourse in case of failure. It all depends on whether or not the numbers add up for you, of course. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 19:33:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA27719 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27661 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:32:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA24711; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:29:56 +1100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:29:56 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602020329.OAA24711@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: rgrimes@gndrsh.aac.dev.com, stesin@elvisti.kiev.ua Subject: Re: Am I root?! or How to mirror an 'a' partition? Cc: ccd@forgery.CS.Berkeley.EDU, hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > sd (4) doesn't clearly state that first 16b are R/O even > if the disk is _not_ mounted at all, BTW. > One need to read IOCTLS section carefully to figure the idea. > Can this fact be added to the sd (4) manpage? No. It is wrong. (a) Only slices with a label are write protected. The whole disk device isn't write protected (although MBRs and SBRs should be). (b) Only the label block (the second one) is write protected. The rest of the bootstrap isn't write protected. It has little to do with the sd driver. All labeled disks have this behaviour. It should be documented in a general disk or label manpage. sd(4) has been cleaned up in -current and refers to disklabel(8), fdisk(8), wd(4) and disklabel(5) for general documentation on partitioning. The reference to wd(4) is a bug - wd(4) is little more than a stub and has no information on partitioning. sd(4) documents a silly list of ioctls - those that happened to be implemented in sd.c driver when the man page was written. It doesn't explicitly mention any of the new label/slice ioctls or any of the SCSI ioctls that it supports. sd.c doesn't implement any ioctls directly any more. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 19:50:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA29016 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:50:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28983 Thu, 1 Feb 1996 19:50:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id OAA25135; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:30 +1100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:30 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602020341.OAA25135@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: andreas@knobel.gun.de, lehey.pad@sni.de Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, ports@freebsd.org, pst@cisco.com Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > I think that the gcc *should* define bsd4_4 (or similar). There's >> > plenty of software out there which doesn't care which 4.4BSD-derived >> > system you're running, and this would help, just like __386bsd__ used >> > to be useful. >Agreed. So I think, too. So could we meet in the middle, that >we add this definition as long as it doesn't disturb us ? >I only see the usefullness as __386BSD__... Both have negative usefulness. __386BSD__ says that the system is 386BSD, which it isn't. bsd4_4 may say that the system is BSD.4.4, which FreeBSD isn't. Defining __FreeBSD__ in the compiler is almost as bad. The compiler has very little to do with the version of FreeBSD that the compiler runs on. Defining __FreeBSD__ anywhere is almost as bad... Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 20:10:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA01445 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp [131.113.32.7]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA01367 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:09:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hosokawa@localhost) by frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (8.6.12+2.4W/3.4Wbeta3) id NAA19812; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:07:44 +0900 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:07:44 +0900 Message-Id: <199602020407.NAA19812@frig.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp> To: thanva@execpc.com Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp Subject: Re: I want to be a BETA tester In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 01 Feb 1996 09:39:12 -0600. <3110DEA0.7384@execpc.com> From: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp (HOSOKAWA Tatsumi) X-Mailer: mnews [version 1.18PL3] 1994-08/01(Mon) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In article <3110DEA0.7384@execpc.com> thanva@execpc.com writes: >> I received an email from Jordan Hubbard on the status of the PCMCIA >> driver. He mentioned that if I would like to become a BETA tester, I >> should email this address. Well, I guess this is my official request. If the package you mentioned is our pccard-test package, I will release new version of it in a few days. Latest version can be found at "ftp://bash.cc.keio.ac.jp/pub/os/FreeBSD/alpha-test/pccard/". Current status of our package: ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Type Card Status Driver ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ethernet 3Com Etherlink III 3C589B OK ep 3Com Etherlink III 3C589C OK ep Accton EN2212 SLOW ed Farallon EtherMac OK ep Fujitsu FMV-J181 OK fe IBM Creditcard Ethernet I OK ed IBM Creditcard Ethernet II OK ed NextCom J Link NC5310 OK fe No-brand UE2212 SLOW ed FAX/Modem APEX DATA Mobile Plus V.34 OK sio Fujitsu FMV-JMD712 OK sio Hayes OPTIMA 288 V.34 NG sio Megahertz XJ1144 OK sio Megahertz XJ2144 OK sio Megahertz XJ2144J OK sio Megahertz XJ2288 OK sio Megahertz XJ3288J OK sio NewMedia FAX/Modem 14.4K OK sio OMRON ME2814 Fax/Modem OK sio OMRON MD24XCA Fax/Modem OK sio PREMAX FM288 OK sio Panasonic TO-706C NG sio TDK DF1414 OK sio TDK DF1414EX OK sio US Robotics Sportster PCMCIA V.34 OK sio US Robotics COURIER PCMCIA V.34 OK sio Xircom CreditCard Ethernet+Modem (Modem only) OK sio ISDN BUG Linkboy D64K OK sio Digital Cellular NTT DoCoMo DATA/FAX Adapter OK sio IRDA IBM PCMCIA Serial IR Adapter Card NG sio SCSI Adaptec SlimSCSI 1460 OK aic NewMedia BusToaster OK aic RATOC REX-5535AC OK spc RATOC REX-5535AMC OK spc RATOC REX-5535X OK spc Flash ATA SunDisk SPD5-5 (OEM: Epson Flash Packer 5MB) OK wdc SunDisk SPD5-20 (OEM: Epson Flash Packer 20MB) OK wdc SunDisk SPD-40 (OEM: Epson Flash Packer 40MB) OK wdc ATA HDD Maxtor MobileMax MXL131 OK wdc Mitsubishi M6887-3 170MB OK wdc ----------------------------------------------------------------------- -- HOSOKAWA, Tatsumi E-mail: hosokawa@mt.cs.keio.ac.jp WWW homepage: http://www.mt.cs.keio.ac.jp/person/hosokawa.html Department of Computer Science, Keio University, Yokohama, Japan From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 20:44:35 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA08588 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:44:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from bluewhale.emergent.com (bluewhale.emergent.com [140.174.2.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08572 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:44:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bluewhale.emergent.com (8.6.11/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA00420 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:44:26 -0800 Message-Id: <199602020444.UAA00420@bluewhale.emergent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: bluewhale.emergent.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:17:12 CST." <199602011717.LAA09086@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:44:26 -0800 From: Curt Mayer Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) > > This is something we NEED, in order to do any sort of serious NFS service. > PrestoServe style devices are handy in many scenarios in addition to NFS - > news servers and other systems where lots of metadata updates are happening. wrong. this is a trivial way to speed up metadata writes. there is a software-only way called using an intent log. A once-boss of mine has a nfs fileserver that uses a homebrew filesystem running in user space on a cluster of pc's running freebsd that eats an auspex's lunch. how? logging. got parity protection, too.. > I think it should probably be handled as a separate entity from the rest of > this (it's not something everyone wants by a long shot). agreed. the best reason for nvram is a persistent console log. curt From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 20:48:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA08907 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:48:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA08882 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:47:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id PAA27552; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:36:13 +1100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:36:13 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602020436.PAA27552@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, peterb@telerama.lm.com Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, dennis@etinc.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, hm@altona.hamburg.com, mrcpu@cdsnet.net Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >> The observation that a FreeBSD box acting as a router is "mostly idle" is >> bogus; since routing takes place entirely in the kernel and "idleness" is >> a measurement of the number of processes in userland waiting to run, I'm >> not sure it's an accurate measure. Wrong. Idleness is an estimate of the amount of time the CPU spends idling. It is quite accurate under FreeBSD. >When comparing the execution times of a CPU intensive program as a measure >of CPU loading, and vmstat's report of system and idle times, I have found >that there is a strong correlation between how many packets the machine is >routing per second and both of those numbers. That's because FreeBSD accounts for most interrupt time fairly accurately. Other systems usually don't. FreeBSD doesn't account for serial interrupt time accurately. This is probably important here. >If I can run a CPU hungry program and it only takes 25% longer even though >the box is routing hundreds of packets per second, I tell you the router is >mostly idle. The claim is certainly not bogus. This is the only reliable test - run your applications and see if they are affected too much by the load. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 1 20:52:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA09583 for hackers-outgoing; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:52:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09487 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:51:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA18836; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:51:23 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 22:51:36 -0600 To: Poul-Henning Kamp , haury@sagem.fr From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: CTM: evolutions of ctm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk haury@sagem.fr provided some patches to ctm to expant its functionality. First let me say "thanks" to him. >> possibility of local modifications to the tree : > >YEAHHH!!!! > >> before working on a file , CTM first checks for the existence >> of the file #ctm. If this file exists, CTM works on it instead. Poul-Henning Kamp replies: >Hmm, what if we make it .ctm then, would that be better ? Now I'll add my own opinion. 1) The ability to handle "local" modifications of a tree is extremely important. 2) However, maintaining multiple versions of a tree in the same location leads to problems. I am working of a scheme to allow the source to be on CD ROM and only the modified portions need to be on the HD. This approach can also work for the case that you are addressing with the kludge #ctm. 3) Your proposed solution only allows for one derived version of the tree. I suggest that there is a good argument for avoiding that constraint. Instead of having one source tree, I advocate that we have (at least) two. The first is the "reference" which is maintained by ctm. However, this is a pure source tree. You NEVER modify it. The second tree is the "local" tree. It has all the modified sources (and the objects). The first way that I suggest to accomplish this is to "clone" the tree. It need not take up much space because you do it all with symbolic links. (See lndir) If we adopt this strategy,and I suggest that we do, everything looks cleaner. If you want links from your tree to the reference for your ease of access, they are easy to generate and do not affect the makefile logic. The "feature" that I would like to see is the ability to expand the clone tree as needed. Consider this senario. 1) Start with the CD ROM (on say /cdrom/FreeBSD/src) 2) Create your update tree ( mkdir /pub/FreeBSD/2.1) 3) Populate it with the source (ln -s /cdrom/FreeBSD/src /pub/FreeBSD/2.1) 4) Now maintain it with ctm (cd /pub/FreeBSD/2.1 ; ctm ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA02745; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 21:57:03 -0800 (PST) cc: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 19:32:20 PST." <700.823231940@time.cdrom.com> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:57:03 -0800 Message-ID: <2743.823240623@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > and can provide you with at least one source of immediate recourse in That's what I get for starting the sentence with one thought and finishing it with another. "source of immediate assistance" is what I meant to say! I'm not sure if "recourse" can be canned or bottled. :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:02:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00268 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:02:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00260 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:02:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA10675; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:19:52 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Fri, 2 Feb 96 10:19 CST Message-Id: Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:19:32 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <700.823231940@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 07:32:20 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > a) What code base would you use? Pointers to supfiles please; > > I have the one for -STABLE, but I bet its out of date. I > > To be honest, I'd probably start supping the CVS tree to some local > location on your site and just check a -stable tree out of it for your > builds. This gives you the highest degree of flexibility should > something pop up in -current which turns out to be the answer to some > prayer and you need to do a little mucking around with CVS in order to > merge it across into your -stable tree. Ok. > > b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, > > but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there > > You want to be able to stamp out multiple machines from one build, > or..? I'm afraid that "replication" is a little ambiguous in this > context. Due to a number of historical bogons in our build process, I > still recommend that each and every machine have its own copy of > /usr/src, the problems with shared obj links otherwise becoming a real > pain. No, we want to be able to have a "code server" which can load, and keep updated, multiple machines. That is, when I have system #15 to load, I want to plug in the Ethernet, point the new box at the server, and say "go fetch your load, kid". Also, the ability to somehow have this update process automated (so that I only have to make a code change on *ONE* machine) would be nice. I don't care about /usr/src; the production machines don't have to have the storage, or the ability, to customize things *for themselves only*. There are a couple of files that don't get screwed with (obviously -- they are different, such as the stuff in /etc) but the rest should be able to be kept current without hassling over doing it by hand. > > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right > > That's still kind of rough, yes. I understand it can be done with /stand/sysinstall. True? > > d) How about stability in general? PCI Ethernet card drivers? > > PCI disk drivers? NFS stability problems (we used to have > > those up the wazoo). Support for >64M without kludges? Any > > surprises I should expect (and benefits of current .vs. > > stable, etc)? > > Stability in general is good. PCI ethernet drivers good. PCI disk > drivers, getting better. NFS stability problems are bad. Most people > trying to seriously beat up on NFS find that it beats back. A lack of > NFS experts with spare time is a big problem for us right now or we'd > fix it. Ok. >> If I'm going to have an unsupported OS, damnit, then I'm going to KNOW its >> unsupported and not pay for support! I don't mind doing my own qualification > > One thing I might suggest is hiring in some local talent who finds the > idea of hacking on free software cool, for god knows whatever reason, > and can provide you with at least one source of immediate recourse in > case of failure. It all depends on whether or not the numbers add up > for you, of course. > > Jordan I think its cool myself, and don't mind as long as I know what I'm getting into. Its when I get surprised and *don't* know how much fat is in the fryer that I get a little ticked off. -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:03:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00463 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00441 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tiNMu-0003xcC; Fri, 2 Feb 96 07:25 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02782; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:25:44 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: dennis@etinc.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 20:32:02 CST." Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 16:25:43 +0100 Message-ID: <2780.823274743@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Well, Dennis, some of us are still wondering how long you are going to > > survive with your firm grasp of "customer contact & communication" :-) > > I disagree. > > Being direct and to the point, without deceit or obfuscation, is a POSITIVE > trait. I do business with people like this, and prefer if others do as > well. > > I respect the person who doesn't feel the need to sugar coat their > statements for "glitter" value, especially when they're right. If you > take unwarranted cheap shots (and these were) at such a person, this is a > perfectly proper and measured response. Karl, I think we agree, I'm not asking for "sugar-coating" or Political Correctness. I just don't see the need to be as abrassive and insulting as Dennis usually is. You can be correct and polite at the same time. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:03:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00502 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00492 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tiNO6-0003xBC; Fri, 2 Feb 96 07:26 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02793; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:26:58 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: haury@sagem.fr, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CTM: evolutions of ctm In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 22:51:36 CST." Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 16:26:57 +0100 Message-ID: <2791.823274817@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > haury@sagem.fr provided some patches to ctm to expant its functionality. > > First let me say "thanks" to him. > > >> possibility of local modifications to the tree : > > > >YEAHHH!!!! > > > >> before working on a file , CTM first checks for the existence > >> of the file #ctm. If this file exists, CTM works on it instead . > > Poul-Henning Kamp replies: > > >Hmm, what if we make it .ctm then, would that be better ? > > Now I'll add my own opinion. > 1) The ability to handle "local" modifications of a tree is extremely importa nt. > 2) However, maintaining multiple versions of a tree in the same location > [...] Sorry Rich, I think you are off on a tangent. What you propose is overengineering in my book. If you need that level of control, get the cvs tree. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:03:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00566 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from tfs.com (tfs.com [140.145.250.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00533 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:03:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com by tfs.com (smail3.1.28.1) with SMTP id m0tiNTg-0003xnC; Fri, 2 Feb 96 07:32 PST Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA02819; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:32:45 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Robert Withrow cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 21:15:20 EST." <199602020215.VAA25630@spooky.rwwa.com> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 16:32:44 +0100 Message-ID: <2817.823275164@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > > I actually thought about this some time back, and have a suggestion > > for a ISA card: > > > > The "FreeBSD gadget": > > How about adding a 1pps input for xntpd. You only want a 1pps if it is very good. That is not the job for a GPS receiver. You could add the HW to get a precise timestamp of course but that is cheap: A TTL buffer that triggers an irq. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:04:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA00823 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:04:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from cwbone.bsi.com.br ([200.250.250.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00782 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:04:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from lenzi ([200.247.248.100]) by cwbone.bsi.com.br (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA14306 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:37:39 GMT Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:34:24 -0200 (EDT) From: "Lenzi, Sergio" X-Sender: lenzi@lenzi To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: serial ports on shared irq In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk On Wed, 31 Jan 1996 didier@omnix.fr.org wrote: > > hi > > is it possible to use serveral serial port on the same irq (4 port board) > Yes, see the sio manpages for that... From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:05:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01000 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00976 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA07684 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 05:20:45 -0800 Received: (from didier@localhost) by zapata.omnix.fr.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA13540; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:22:06 +0100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:22:06 +0100 (MET) From: didier@omnix.fr.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: maximum memory Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I've just install 2 computer with 128mb but only 64mb are seen by FreeBSD. I checked everywhere (handbook/faq) but I've not been able to find anything. It seems that the parameter is MAXMEM in kb from machdep.c (is it true) ? -- Didier Derny | My computer is Microsoft Free and Bug Free didier@aida.org | I'm running FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:05:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01011 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00981 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pancake.remcomp.fr (root@pancake.remcomp.fr [194.51.30.1]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id FAA07612 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 05:08:17 -0800 Received: (from didier@localhost) by zapata.omnix.fr.org (8.6.12/8.6.9) id LAA13548; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:24:23 +0100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:24:22 +0100 (MET) From: didier@omnix.fr.org To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: printer server Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi I would like to transform a old 386dx40 into a printer server. I only have 4mb of memory on this computer. is it possible to install and older version of FreeBSD ? which one ? is samba running on this version ? thanks -- Didier Derny | My computer is Microsoft Free and Bug Free didier@aida.org | I'm running FreeBSD 2.1-STABLE From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:05:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01047 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00973 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id IAA00358 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:53:26 -0800 Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA06010; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:35:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:35:52 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: current@freebsd.org cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? In-Reply-To: <199602021215.AA17042@Sysiphos> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Stefan Esser wrote: > On Feb 1, 22:19, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: > } Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? > } > } Hi... > } > } I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried > } to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. > } > } The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find > } it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. > } It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I > } expect. > > Which IRQ does it find ? > Are you sure that IRQ has not been assigned to some > ISA device ? > I've tried both 9 and 12, with the same results. Looking through dmesg on a "good boot" (using an Adaptec 1542CF controller instead), there is nothing listed as being at either of those IRQs: sio @ 4 and 3 lp @ 7 ether @ 10 vt0 @ 1 fd @ 6 And that's it, at least according to dmesg > Could you please try booting the kernel up to the panic, > and then boot some other kernel that is known to work. That kernel is actually known to work, but I don't have any kernel that works with the PCI SCSI controller. I'm running the exact same kernel with the aha driver and ncr driver enabled. > Check, whether the second kernel can get at the first > one's message buffer (i.e. whether 'dmesg' still gets > at the messages from the failed boot attempt ...) > Assuming I understand what you mean here, I have tried this, and it doesn't work. dmesg only gets the "current bootup" > Guess there is some hardware configuration proble, > e.g. the card might be jumpered to use some PCI > interrupt line other than IntA. > Checked that too, even tried a different slot. I did a follow-up posting to current@/stable@ with a few more details, like the fact that on a clean boot, my "PCI" devices come up as: Probing for devices on PCI bus 0: chip0 rev 49 on pci0:5 vga0 rev 0 on pci0:15 Probing for devices on the ISA bus: If I install the NCR, I get chip0, then ncr0 on pci0:11, and at that point, it panics. So, it is finding the ncr0 device, and even at the IRQ/INT that I'm expecting it at, but its either failing at the SCSI probe part (where it looks for the drives) or, if the probe for vga0 is before that (not sure of ordering here), its failing to find the vga0 device. The vga0 device is an ATI Mach64 PCI w/ 4M VRAM...in case that clicks something somewhere? > Seems fine except for the fact, that there are quite > a number of devices, that surely don't all fit into > your system :) > Was worried I might have missed something... > And I now think, that one of them conflicts with the > IRQ assigned to the NCR ... > Any idea of which? Again, it is finding my SCSI card, as is the BIOS on bootup, it just seems to either be failing at the drive probe, or at the vga0 probe...depending on which ordering is correct. Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:06:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01215 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01162 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from Sysiphos (Sysiphos.MI.Uni-Koeln.DE [134.95.212.10]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id EAA06457 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:25:05 -0800 Received: by Sysiphos id AA17042 (5.67b/IDA-1.5); Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:15:09 +0100 Message-Id: <199602021215.AA17042@Sysiphos> From: se@zpr.uni-koeln.de (Stefan Esser) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:15:08 +0100 In-Reply-To: "Marc G. Fournier" "ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable?" (Feb 1, 22:19) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.6 alpha(2) 7/9/95) To: "Marc G. Fournier" Subject: Re: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? Cc: stable@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Feb 1, 22:19, "Marc G. Fournier" wrote: } Subject: ASUS PCI SC-200 under -stable? } } Hi... } } I just picked up an ASUS PCI SC-200 SCSI controller and tried } to install it on a -stable kernel, and it failed to boot. } } The "BIOS" finds it, and the drives, and FreeBSD seems to find } it, or at least, it prints up what I expect it to in the boot phase. } It finds it at the right INT/IRQ, and puts it on 'pci0:11', all as I } expect. Which IRQ does it find ? Are you sure that IRQ has not been assigned to some ISA device ? There currently is NO conflict checking between PCI and ISA devices, though I've got code ready for test that will repair this ... Could you please try booting the kernel up to the panic, and then boot some other kernel that is known to work. Check, whether the second kernel can get at the first one's message buffer (i.e. whether 'dmesg' still gets at the messages from the failed boot attempt ...) } The next line doesn't come, just a panic, and the reboot is so } quick, that I can barely focus on the screen to start writing before } it reboots (doesn't feel like the 15secs it says) } } So, the question is, are there any known problems with the driver } in -stable, or anywhere that I should be looking for where the problem is? Well, I can assure you, that the driver in -stable should work with the ASUS SC-200 just fine ... There has been one trivial change in January, the last substantial change was back in October 1995. Guess there is some hardware configuration proble, e.g. the card might be jumpered to use some PCI interrupt line other than IntA. } I don't know if maybe I've left out something from my kernel, } included is my config file for the current kernel: Seems fine except for the fact, that there are quite a number of devices, that surely don't all fit into your system :) And I now think, that one of them conflicts with the IRQ assigned to the NCR ... Regards, STefan -- Stefan Esser, Zentrum fuer Paralleles Rechnen Tel: +49 221 4706021 Universitaet zu Koeln, Weyertal 80, 50931 Koeln FAX: +49 221 4705160 ============================================================================== http://www.zpr.uni-koeln.de/~se From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:06:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01316 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01230 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net (anacreon.sol.net [206.55.64.116]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA06412 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:16:49 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id GAA14112 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 06:15:39 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id GAA15425; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 06:16:53 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602021216.GAA15425@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Time travelling news server To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 6:16:51 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Okay, I just had my "what the F***" experience of the week. I noticed some strangeness on my news server "news.sol.net". While examining it, I typed "date" and got hummin# date Sun Jan 15 02:51:14 CST 1928 WHAT????????? I quickly compiled a printf("%ld\n", time(NULL)) and got: -1324220930 Now, xntpdc was happily chugging along on the system. Matter of fact, when I killed it and did an "ntpdate ntp2.sol.net", it claimed a very small offset from ntp2.sol.net.... maybe a complete (or half, negative) wrap-around? It's been a week for problems with my news box. :-/ ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:06:52 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01336 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01188 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiny.sprintlink.net (tiny.sprintlink.net [199.0.55.90]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id EAA06446 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:22:56 -0800 Received: from aviion.ts.kiev.ua (aviion.ts.kiev.ua [193.124.229.12]) by tiny.sprintlink.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id HAA22695 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:21:44 -0500 Received: from wind.UUCP by aviion.ts.kiev.ua with UUCP id MAA23110; (8.6.11/zah/1.4b) Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:13:10 GMT Received: (from alexis@localhost) by unicorn.ww.net (8.6.12/alexis 2.5) id PAA04848 for <@rtech.uucp:hackers@freebsd.org>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:11:18 +0300 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:11:18 +0300 From: Alexis Yushin Message-Id: <199602021211.PAA04848@unicorn.ww.net> To: Subject: ep driver Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Salut, Could someone explain when a message like 'ep0: Status: 2002' occurs, that is what the status 2002 means for 3COM 3c5x9 means? alexis From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:07:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01377 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01252 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:06:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from anacreon.sol.net ([206.55.64.116]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id DAA06354 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 03:59:03 -0800 Received: from solaria.sol.net (solaria.sol.net [206.55.65.75]) by anacreon.sol.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id FAA14083; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 05:57:24 -0600 Received: from localhost by solaria.sol.net (8.5/8.5) id FAA15277; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 05:58:38 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602021158.FAA15277@solaria.sol.net> Subject: Re: WYE To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 96 5:58:35 CST Cc: stevep@orion.ods.net, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602021017.VAA09314@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 2, 96 09:17:17 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4dev PL65] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >Okay, this suggests that there is some way to clear this condition in > >software! > > Last-closing all the devices should disconnect the physical devices from > the IRQ, but won't help unjam the devices. Probing might unjam them or > fail to detect the jammed ones so that the others work. -current has > better probing code that went into -stable a couple of days ago. Actually... :-) I made another wonderful discovery that helps immensely. I was thinking last nite and decided when it happened again I would try setting all the ttyd* devices to "off" for a second and then back on, this morning I had a chance to test and it cleared the situation. You're too late by a day ;-) Next step: will try playing with individual ports to see if I can find out who's making trouble for me. Thanks for the information, though. It helps in understanding what may or may not be going on. I'll keep everybody posted. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/342-4847 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:13:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02925 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from ivory.lm.com (ivory.lm.com [192.231.221.9]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02906 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from peterb@localhost) by ivory.lm.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA10139; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:11:56 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:11:55 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Berger X-Sender: peterb@ivory.lm.com To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199602011704.MAA19726@etinc.com> Message-ID: X-Mentos: The Freshmaker! X-Request-Do: resolve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, dennis wrote: > Peter Burger writes.... That's "Berger". > This is wrong on all 3 counts. Experience tells otherwise. A similarly First off, you never address the support question. Second, my "experience" only consists of helping support a network of 2 Cisco 7500's, 2 AGS+'s, a 7000, routing a T3 to the global Internet and multiple Ethernets, FDDI rings, and metropolitan T3s and T1s, as well as supporting a couple of unix routers. So perhaps you're right, and i'm just haven't had enough "hands on" experience to be able to understand these things the way you, with your oh so much more complex network, can. > priced unit > with a Web server will easily outperform a Cisco. Cisco's method of handling > dumb serial controllers for hi-speed lines takes much away from its apparent > architectural advantages, plus the use of a slow processor (which is consumed > handling serial/ethernet traffic) makes any processing task (like filtering) > very slow > compared to a (say) Pentium solution. With a PC, basically, you get > flexibility and power for a much lower cost. For Example, you can't add a > 100Mbs port to a Cisco > for $134! That's right; and you can't add a 100Mbp/s port to a PC that will actually route that many packets for $134, or for any price. Reference the very interesting TCP performance tests at Usenix which showed that at Ethernet MTUs, Pentium boxes running TCP/IP over the loopback interface could only reach about 40Mb/s (this number went up if you increased the MTU ... the cost is in the packet processing, not the raw byte speed). The simple fact is that the relatively slow processor on the Cisco is not a major problem if you're serious about routing. If you hit the processor (i.e. if you're doing ip level filtering), you are a poor network designer -- you should not be using your router as a firewall. Pure routing through ciscos takes the fast path (a.k.a. the silicon) and doesn't load the CPU substantially, if at all. The slow path is there for people who insist on shooting themselves in the foot. And people who run a web server on their router are not making a wise decision. I can cook steaks on my engine block, but I'd be dumb if I tried to do it while my car was going 65. Incidentally, not only didn't you address the support issues, but you also neglected to counter my observation that ciscos give a port density beyond anything even remotely possible in a PC. Anyway, this is a stupid argument. I like FreeBSD. FreBSD makes a good T1 or Ethernet router for simple networks. Anyone who tries to use it in a production situation for multiple very high speed connections is begging for trouble, not because of anything specific to FreeBSD but simply because the i386 busses and unix kernel combination in general hasn't been optimized enough, yet. > Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For > Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame > Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD > and LINUX Oh. So that's why you're being obnoxious. I should have guessed. Tell you what -- come back and tell me about what your "experience" tells me when you're routing DS3. "The law locks up both man and woman/Who steals the goose from off the common But lets the greater felon loose/Who steals the common from the goose." -anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Berger - peterb@telerama.lm.com - http://www.lm.com/~peterb From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:15:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA03034 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03029 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA01100 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:14:52 -0800 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA24937; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 07:39:38 -0700 Message-Id: <199602021439.HAA24937@rover.village.org> To: Andreas Klemm Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Thu, 01 Feb 1996 19:41:39 +0100 Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 07:39:37 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : When I did the gcc port, cc failed to compile some sources, because : the correct typedef for us (FreeBSD) was only included, when bsd4_4 : would have beed defined. So I had to patch the sources, to add : : #if defined(bsd4_4) && defined(__FreeBSD__) : ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : : I think the bsd4_4 definition should be included to make it easier : to compile stuff for 4.4 BSD. It seems to me, that it's for some : people common to test for bsd4_4. It would make it easier to : compile those sources and would decrease the amount of modifications/ : patches. The latest gcc don't have this problem. In fact, xm-freebsd.h defines HAVE_STRERROR so that bsd4_4 doesn't even get tested for builds for FreeBSD systems. bsd4_4 is defined by gcc *ONLY* on mips-dec-bsd, as far as I can tell. That's the only place in the entire gcc 2.7.2 sources where -Dbsd4_4 or #define bsd4_4 happens in the source. As it turns out, cpp is compiled on this one architecture to have bsd4_4 defined. NetBSD doesn't, FreeBSD doesn't, BSDi doesn't. Etc. gcc itself only uses bsd4_4 when HAVE_STRERROR isn't defined and it is building its own strerror. gcc didn't used to be like this, but it is as of the latest release. In fact, most versions of gcc that were wrong were easily fixed by adding #define HAVE_STRERROR to tm-freebsd.h and rebuilding. I recall once adding #define bsd4_4 to that file a long time ago before the HAVE_STRERROR code was in place. Since that was just once place to fix, rather than 6 or so in the sources. That's part of porting, I guess :-). If you want bsd4_4, then you can just as easily include: #ifdef HAVE_SYS_PARAMS #include #endif #ifdef BSD4_4 #define bsd4_4 #endif since params.h is the *STANDARD* bsd way of figuring out if you are running on a BSD system. To date, I have never needed __FreeBSD__ as a define. The BSD year/month version number has always proven to be suffcient for my needs. This includes porting kerberos, gcc and some other stuff that had old, icky defines before. I've ported about 500,000 lines of code to FreeBSD between work projects and software from the net, so this isn't a trivial amount of code. I'm not saying that __FreeBSD__ shouldn't be defined, but its use should be very rare... Ideally, however, you'd not need to ask the question "Am I running BSD 4.4" Instead, something like autoconfig should ask much smaller questions and then tell you what it found by defining HAVE_STRERROR, HAVE_BROKEN_SELECT, HAVE_PARALLEL_PRINTER_PORT_DONGLE, etc. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:19:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04077 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:19:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04071 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:19:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-110.cdmo.com (dialup-110.cdmo.com [204.141.95.167]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA22000; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:37:21 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:37:21 -0500 Message-Id: <199602021637.LAA22000@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Poul-Henning Kamp From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > Well, Dennis, some of us are still wondering how long you are going to >> > survive with your firm grasp of "customer contact & communication" :-) >> >> I disagree. >> >> Being direct and to the point, without deceit or obfuscation, is a POSITIVE >> trait. I do business with people like this, and prefer if others do as >> well. >> >> I respect the person who doesn't feel the need to sugar coat their >> statements for "glitter" value, especially when they're right. If you >> take unwarranted cheap shots (and these were) at such a person, this is a >> perfectly proper and measured response. > >Karl, I think we agree, I'm not asking for "sugar-coating" or Political >Correctness. I just don't see the need to be as abrassive and insulting >as Dennis usually is. You can be correct and polite at the same time. Yeah....and like you guys aren't "abrasive" with me! Most of the flamefests have started with some rather simple comments....like someone wanting to "Ban" me because they didnt like the way i asked a rather pertinent question. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 09:20:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA04276 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04268 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:20:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from ivory.lm.com (ivory.lm.com [192.231.221.9]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id JAA01269 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:20:30 -0800 Received: (from peterb@localhost) by ivory.lm.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA10414; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:15:23 -0500 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:15:22 -0500 (EST) From: Peter Berger X-Sender: peterb@ivory.lm.com To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards In-Reply-To: <199602020436.PAA27552@godzilla.zeta.org.au> Message-ID: X-Mentos: The Freshmaker! X-Request-Do: resolve MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Ok, that last message I sent was pretty heavy-handed. To prevent this from blowing up into a flame war, I admit that this thread has little to do with FreeBSD anymore and promise to drop it, no matter what the response. "The law locks up both man and woman/Who steals the goose from off the common But lets the greater felon loose/Who steals the common from the goose." -anon ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Peter Berger - peterb@telerama.lm.com - http://www.lm.com/~peterb From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:21:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA09697 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:21:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09691 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:21:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16492(1)>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:20:57 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177479>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:20:42 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Michael Smith cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), phk@critter.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 01 Feb 1996 17:07:57 PST." <199602020107.LAA25538@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:20:37 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Feb2.102042pst.177479@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199602020107.LAA25538@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Michael Smith wrote: >Anyone out there ever written a video BIOS? PC BIOS's probably still all have code to deal with BIOS-less mono video cards; why not just decode the video memory range and update internal state with the memory writes, then convert them into VT100 codes (or, rather, the card should have a downloadable termcap in NVRAM so that I can plug in my tvi925!...) Don't forget that during the "pre-boot" phase you need to pretend to be a keyboard, too, not a serial port, or else you can't run setup. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:31:45 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA10543 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:31:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cdrom.com (localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10533 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:31:43 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199602021831.KAA10533@freefall.freebsd.org> X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: Host localhost.cdrom.com [127.0.0.1] didn't use HELO protocol To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:19:32 CST." Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:31:42 -0800 From: "Justin T. Gibbs" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, >> > but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there >> >> You want to be able to stamp out multiple machines from one build, >> or..? I'm afraid that "replication" is a little ambiguous in this >> context. Due to a number of historical bogons in our build process, I >> still recommend that each and every machine have its own copy of >> /usr/src, the problems with shared obj links otherwise becoming a real >> pain. > >No, we want to be able to have a "code server" which can load, and keep >updated, multiple machines. That is, when I have system #15 to load, I want >to plug in the Ethernet, point the new box at the server, and say "go fetch >your load, kid". > >Also, the ability to somehow have this update process automated (so that I >only have to make a code change on *ONE* machine) would be nice. This can be done with SUP. I have some sample collections from the HP-UX clusters managed by TCS at U.C. Berkeley that I will be adopting to FreeBSD soon. They'll pop up in the sup examples directory when I'm done. >I don't care about /usr/src; the production machines don't have to have the >storage, or the ability, to customize things *for themselves only*. There >are a couple of files that don't get screwed with (obviously -- they are >different, such as the stuff in /etc) but the rest should be able to be kept >current without hassling over doing it by hand. The TCS system uses a script to process all files that need to be customized for the host. When a file is pulled down via SUP, this one script is run on the file to do the customization. SUP will also do things like hup sendmail when the sendmail.cf file changes. The TCS collections are very complex, but since I wrote them, it shouldn't take too long to make them work for basic FreeBSD systems. You'll have to modify them for your setup of course. >-- >Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity >Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available >Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more >Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net >/ >ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! -- Justin T. Gibbs =========================================== FreeBSD: Turning PCs into workstations =========================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:38:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA11289 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:38:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA11281 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:38:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id KAA08000; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:37:43 -0800 Message-Id: <199602021837.KAA08000@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: didier@omnix.fr.org cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: maximum memory In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 11:22:06 +0100." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:37:43 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Hi > >I've just install 2 computer with 128mb but only 64mb are seen by >FreeBSD. I checked everywhere (handbook/faq) but I've not been able >to find anything. It seems that the parameter is MAXMEM in kb >from machdep.c (is it true) ? Yes, the kernel option is MAXMEM: options "MAXMEM=" For 128MB, this would be: options "MAXMEM=131072" -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:51:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12477 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:51:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12472 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA11845; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:46 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602021849.MAA11845@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers To: curt@emergent.com (Curt Mayer) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:49:46 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602011921.LAA23294@bluewhale.emergent.com> from "Curt Mayer" at Feb 1, 96 11:21:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > hey, guys. here's a solution that smells much more like unix. > have a daemon running on each node that is prone to hangup. > this process wakes up every once in a while and does a system checkup. > (stats things, pings places, looks at kernel statistics). when it see > that things are ok, it sends a datagram to a particular machine, > > this node, the monitor, has a table in memory of all recent datagrams > from each node. when a node hasn't been heard from for a while, it > tells a BSR x10 controller to cycle power on the hung node. DUH. > > our ISP, tlg.net used to do routing and slip with sx-16's running NOS. > whenever a hang happened, tlg used to do a power cycle with X10's. I already have alpha-level code that does this (and more), and hits my alpha pager when a system dies. However, I never cared for the BSR X10 idea (it just sits badly with me) and I'd prefer a more controlled and elegant solution. :-) ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:57:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12918 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA12902 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:56:49 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA11875; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:54:01 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602021854.MAA11875@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:54:01 -0600 (CST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602020143.MAA25721@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 2, 96 12:13:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > If you're going to decode the I/O's already, don't bother with the UART. > I have a rough schematic for this already, and I'll work on it when I can; > keep the ideas coming 8) Your intent is to emulate the UART? I'm sorry, I'm not THAT good at digital logic design :-) I wouldn't know where to start. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 10:59:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA13073 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13062 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:59:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA15309 for hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:59:06 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602021859.TAA15309@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: Who is looking after tcp/ip code ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:59:05 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there anyone who is specifically looking after the tcp/ip code (/sys/netinet) ? The sources on thud have CVS Ids by practically every core-team member! I am asking because my last proposal for a patch got completely ignored, and I am wondering if this is a transient thing (I notice the traffic on the lists is much lower these days). I understand that this is a delicate part of the system, so that changes should be done with great care. This is why I'd like to discuss the thing with other people to get their opinions. Thanks Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:06:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02226 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02134 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il (cfd.eng.tau.ac.il [132.66.48.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA04437 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:09:20 -0800 Received: by cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il; id AA27061; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:07:43 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:07:43 +0200 (IST) From: Denis Kopylenko To: BSD Questions , BSD Hackers Subject: Access Linux ext2fs from BSD's UFS Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Is there any way to access Linux's ext2fs from the BSD's native UFS? Thanks for help, Regards, Denis. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:07:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02345 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:10:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02166 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il (cfd.eng.tau.ac.il [132.66.48.40]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA04498 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:12:40 -0800 Received: by cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il; id AA27588; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:11:07 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:11:07 +0200 (IST) From: Denis Kopylenko To: BSD Questions Cc: BSD Hackers Subject: Access Linux ext2fs from BSD's UFS Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Is there any way to access Linux's ext2fs from the BSD's native UFS? Thanks for help, Regards, Denis. PS. Please answer to my private address: vladimir@cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:08:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02119 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01993 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.eskimo.com (root@mail.eskimo.com [204.122.16.4]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA04886 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:41:41 -0800 Received: from eskimo.com (dpk@eskimo.com [204.122.16.13]) by mail.eskimo.com (8.7.3/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA04710; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:52:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 16:52:18 -0800 (PST) From: David Kirchner To: "Matthew N. Dodd" cc: mailing list account , Warner Losh , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Hackers ages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Matthew N. Dodd wrote: > On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, mailing list account wrote: > > Just blew the curve: 28 - 1 month... > > 20. Beat that. :) > Ok. 18. =) -- David Kirchner -- dpk@eskimo.com From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:08:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02138 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02000 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from netcom22.netcom.com (bakul@netcom22.netcom.com [192.100.81.136]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA04737 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:26:22 -0800 Received: from localhost by netcom22.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id AAA12804; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:24:06 -0800 Message-Id: <199602020824.AAA12804@netcom22.netcom.com> To: Michael Smith cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 96 11:49:28 +1030." <199602020119.LAA25593@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 96 00:24:00 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > May be one of those single board computers (aka SBC) built > > around a 286 will do the trick? 2ser+1par+memory+cpu etc. > > are all on an ISA card and you can plug one or more of these > > in an ISA `passive backplane'. If you are in the SF Bay > I can think of better and cheaper ways to make smoke with > my computer. Stuffing alfoil into the ISA slots comes to mind. Care to elaborate? Perhaps you are generalizing your own bad experience a bit too far? There are all sorts of ISA cards with memory,cpu,IO etc. -- nothing magic in that. > IIRC, these guys are F1-based. Try getting P&A on an F1 these > days. No, {handy,mini}board use E9 which has 2K eeprom. > Seriously, you're wandering into gross overkill here. The point was that if people just want some sort of watchdog gizmo, starting from existing kits/boards is a lot faster. Pie-in-the-sky boards are fun to dream about but they never get built. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:09:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02029 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01900 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id AAA04968 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:51:59 -0800 Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id KAA10717; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:52:47 +0200 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:52:47 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199602012200.PAA13856@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only > motherboard? > > 6 (or more) PCI slots > No frigging ISA slots. > No frigging IDE interface. > Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) > NCR53C8xx SCSI on board > DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board > Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller > FIFO'ed floppy controller > S3964 PCI video(?) > bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) > OpenFirmware boot ROMs > Some good clock hardware > Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. > Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) You'll also need a good bios for allowing to select if you want to boot from fd/hdd/network. And perhaps also some basic diagnostics (so if you think you have bad RAM you won't have to boot dos to run the test :) Anyway - just build the board and I warrant I'm going to buy some! > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org Sander. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:09:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01859 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01748 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05575 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:01:15 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id KAA22473 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:52:25 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id KAA11818 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:52:24 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id KAA04401 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:47:50 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602020947.KAA04401@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: getting LUN 1 of MD21 ESDI->SCSI bridge to work To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:47:50 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602011932.UAA02117@yedi.iaf.nl> from "Wilko Bulte" at Feb 1, 96 08:32:17 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Wilko Bulte wrote: > > > ...and submit it for inclusion into the official tree. Please. :) > But the entry needed is (based on 2.1R source): > - T_DIRECT, T_FIXED, "EMULEX", "MD21/S2 " > - ,"any", "sd", SC_MORE_LUS > - }, > - { Ok, thanks Wilko, i've made it fit into -current and are about to commit it. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:09:41 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01550 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01534 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05937 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:34:54 -0800 Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id VAA09314; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:17:17 +1100 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:17:17 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602021017.VAA09314@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: jgreco@solaria.sol.net, stevep@orion.ods.net Subject: Re: WYE Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk >In my continuing struggles with the BocaBoard 2016-and-jammed-IRQ problem, >I've set up a continuous port monitor system that alerts me when something >bad happens. The condition, as previously described, is quite detectable - >see the first two lines below. Steve Palm has redeemed himself by making >the following possibly important observation which I have somehow missed: >> I determined that wye's IRQ was jammed again.... The light was on >> red, as well as the AT (nothing) (OK) behaviour. >> >> I downed wye and did a physical reset. One thing to note: When I >> did a halt, and wye was waiting for a reboot, the IRQ light did go >> out. Not sure if that would indicate anything meaningful or not, >> since I don't know what the software drivers do during a halt request >> to make changes to the IRQ status, but thought I would share it with >> you in case you hadn't noticed. >Okay, this suggests that there is some way to clear this condition in >software! Last-closing all the devices should disconnect the physical devices from the IRQ, but won't help unjam the devices. Probing might unjam them or fail to detect the jammed ones so that the others work. -current has better probing code that went into -stable a couple of days ago. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:09:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01595 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01572 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05851 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:25:26 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA23568 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:21:37 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA11958 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:21:36 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id LAA04930 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:20:25 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602021020.LAA04930@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:20:24 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602011921.LAA23294@bluewhale.emergent.com> from "Curt Mayer" at Feb 1, 96 11:21:04 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Curt Mayer wrote: > > > hey, guys. here's a solution that smells much more like unix. > have a daemon running on each node that is prone to hangup. > this process wakes up every once in a while and does a system checkup. > (stats things, pings places, looks at kernel statistics). when it see > that things are ok, it sends a datagram to a particular machine, > > this node, the monitor, has a table in memory of all recent datagrams > from each node. when a node hasn't been heard from for a while, it > tells a BSR x10 controller to cycle power on the hung node. DUH. Idea stolen from Linux: create a /dev/watchdog for this purpose. Once it is held open by a process, the kernel resets the CPU if it doesn't get a response on a device after a certain time. The idea behind this is that most of the hanging systems have still a running async portion of the kernel, i.e. things like interrupt handling continue to work, but the process context switching hangs for some reason (e.g. SCSI bus hangs etc.). The chances are good that the kernel could still kill itself. Not ideal, but also no cost. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:10:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02148 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02045 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:07 -0800 (PST) From: haury@sagem.fr Received: from relay1.fnet.fr (relay1.fnet.fr [192.134.192.129]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id AAA04819 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 00:33:45 -0800 Received: from sagem.UUCP by relay1.fnet.fr (5.65c8d/92.02.29) via Fnet/EUnet-France id AA28522; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:32:36 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602020831.JAA02040@sagem.fr> Subject: Re: CTM: evolutions of ctm To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:31:17 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Richard Wackerbarth" at Feb 1, 96 10:51:36 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk This mail is an answer to Poul-Henning Kamp & Richard Wackerbarth mails about CTM Extract from my original mail (haury@sagem.fr) : > before working on a file , CTM first checks for the existence > of the file #ctm. If this file exists, CTM works on it instead. Poul-Henning Kamp replies: >Hmm, what if we make it .ctm then, would that be better ? It's not a bad idea. You have just to be carefull because '.ctm' is already used as temp file for edit process (Fn, FE) - since it's quite tricky, I have declared this suffix with my '#ctm' one in ctm.h to avoid any problems in case of future modification. The chose of '#ctm' is yours (I fact you have spoken about '#CTM' in the Handbook). What's true, it's not really easy to use '#ctm' into a Makefile (you often need to escape # ). Richard Wackerbarth wrote: >2) However, maintaining multiple versions of a tree in the same location >leads to problems. I am working of a scheme to allow the source to be on CD >ROM and only the modified portions need to be on the HD. This approach can >also work for the case that you are addressing with the kludge #ctm. Normally the union file system is here to do that - Unfortunatly the union fs does not work on FreeBSD (true in 2.1-R, I haven't test it again on -current) >3) Your proposed solution only allows for one derived version of the tree. >I suggest that there is a good argument for avoiding that constraint. > >Instead of having one source tree, I advocate that we have (at least) two. >The first is the "reference" which is maintained by ctm. However, this is a >pure source tree. You NEVER modify it. >The second tree is the "local" tree. It has all the modified sources (and >the objects). It seems difficult to check "automagicalyr" if a file you have modified has changed in the -current. The job is done with my top Makefile. > [deleted] > >need not take up much space because you do it all with symbolic links. (See >lndir) > >If we adopt this strategy,and I suggest that we do, everything looks >cleaner. If you want links from your tree to the reference for your ease of >access, they are easy to generate and do not affect the makefile logic. Well, you need sometime to make local changes to get the -current official tree to compile before having the official correction (the last time was the 'lsdev' problem : I have applied Thomas Neumann patches before getting the official correction, now I have droped my local modification). >tree as needed. Consider this senario. > >1) Start with the CD ROM (on say /cdrom/FreeBSD/src) >2) Create your update tree ( mkdir /pub/FreeBSD/2.1) >3) Populate it with the source (ln -s /cdrom/FreeBSD/src /pub/FreeBSD/2.1) >4) Now maintain it with ctm (cd /pub/FreeBSD/2.1 ; ctm 5) When ctm realizes that it needs to modify src/usr.bin/someprog/main.c > it will replace the symbolic link with a directory and populate that >directory with the appropriate links. > >What do you think of that approach? > Union fs should be the best choice for that. It's broken, the sources seems to be not so "obvious" and I don't have enough time to check the problem. :-( -- =Christian Haury (Christian.Haury@sagem.fr) --------------------------------------------------------- | SAGEM Eragny - Avenue du Gros Chene - Eragny BP 51 | | 95612 Cergy Pontoise Cedex - France | | phone : +33 (1) 34 30 53 93 | telex : 607387F | | fax : +33 (1) 34 30 50 28 | teletex : 933-130731770 | --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:10:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01901 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01802 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from argus.flash.net (root@argus.flash.net [206.149.25.12]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05752 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:14:39 -0800 Received: (from lists@localhost) by argus.flash.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA01704 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:13:26 -0600 From: mailing list account Message-Id: <199602021013.EAA01704@argus.flash.net> Subject: pitest results on ALR P6 at 150MHz To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 04:13:26 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I thought someone out there would like to see this pitest run... The essentials of the system: ALR P6 150MHz, 64M, AHA-2940W, Connor CFP4207W (4.28G), and the standard 2.1-RELEASE kernel, as installed. f77 options were for all tests: -O2 -m486 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe All runs use Borwein's quartically convergent algorithm, and run on an unloaded system. I find the results to be impressive. The final test utilized a large amount of swap space, and thus shows both the stability and efficiency of the vm subsystem. I feel that the run time of the last test could have been improved through the use of a higher performance drive [avg sequential ~= 3.5M/S], it is a shame to see such a potentially classy machine being sold with a substandard hard drive at the price they sold it for. Yes, the drive has a fast/wide interface, although it is anything but. Let's say that for the same price ALR charged, I could have gotten a Barracuda. The Connor drive also failed to completely verify after a format, verify, verify, format, verify, verify cycle, although they did offer to cover 2-day shipping for a free exchange part. The format always did complete though, and it was possible to run these benchmarks reliably, if there is any change in the drive's transfer rates when we get the replacement, I'll post an update. Overall, with the above noted exceptions, this ALR box is hot. More benchamarks tomorrow [Less time/resource consuming ones]. ------------------------------------------------- The first run was completely in core, and is the only one to compare to the documentation for pitest, it is for 24,570 places. ------------------------------------------------- PI4 COMPUTATION TEST -- DP COMPLEX FFT MP VERSION MW = 14 NW = 4096 ND = 24570 ITERATION 1 7 ITERATION 2 7 ITERATION 3 7 ITERATION 4 7 ITERATION 5 7 ITERATION 6 7 ITERATION 7 7 CPU TIME = .0000 SECONDS. 62.87 real 62.18 user 0.05 sys 1676 maximum resident set size 41 average shared memory size 1337 average unshared data size 164 average unshared stack size 338 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 0 block input operations 0 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 0 signals received 0 voluntary context switches 665 involuntary context switches ------------------------------------------------- The next run was completely in core, and for 786,426 places of pi. ------------------------------------------------- PI4 COMPUTATION TEST -- DP COMPLEX FFT MP VERSION MW = 19 NW = 131072 ND = 786426 ITERATION 1 10 ITERATION 2 10 ITERATION 3 10 ITERATION 4 10 ITERATION 5 10 ITERATION 6 10 ITERATION 7 10 ITERATION 8 10 ITERATION 9 10 ITERATION 10 10 CPU TIME = .0000 SECONDS. 5022.98 real 720.11 user 0.21 sys 33200 maximum resident set size 285 average shared memory size -7975 average unshared data size 1141 average unshared stack size 8242 page reclaims 0 page faults 0 swaps 1 block input operations 13 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 0 signals received 2 voluntary context switches 55949 involuntary context switches ------------------------------------------------- The last run was to compute pi to 1,572,858 places, swapinfo shows that this run used approximately 49,572k of swap space while running. ------------------------------------------------- PI4 COMPUTATION TEST -- DP COMPLEX FFT MP VERSION MW = 20 NW = 262144 ND = 1572858 ITERATION 1 10 ITERATION 2 10 ITERATION 3 10 ITERATION 4 10 ITERATION 5 10 ITERATION 6 10 ITERATION 7 10 ITERATION 8 10 ITERATION 9 10 ITERATION 10 10 CPU TIME = .0000 SECONDS. 11871.80 real 2976.27 user 1.72 sys 55080 maximum resident set size 238 average shared memory size 6434 average unshared data size 637 average unshared stack size 112812 page reclaims 22004 page faults 0 swaps 14 block input operations 24 block output operations 0 messages sent 0 messages received 0 signals received 22117 voluntary context switches 145809 involuntary context switches ------------------------------------------------- You may obtain the pitest benchmark from ftp://wcarchive.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/incoming/pitest.tar.gz Jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" jbryant@argus.flash.net - FlashNet Communications - Ft. Worth, Texas From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:10:11 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA02302 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02217 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:09:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA03728 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 1996 23:07:23 -0800 Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id RAA27287; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:50:41 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602020720.RAA27287@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: karl@mcs.com (Karl Denninger, MCSNet) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:50:40 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Feb 1, 96 06:27:33 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Karl Denninger, MCSNet stands accused of saying: > > If you were setting up a "code server", and wanted to start trying > to automate an update process for FreeBSD to be used in a production > web environment (yes, I'm serious): > > a) What code base would you use? Pointers to supfiles please; > I have the one for -STABLE, but I bet its out of date. I > know the "our philosphy is that STABLE is..." stuff; I want > to know from the people using FreeBSD now what is the *best* > code base you have. Future changes via SUP are fine, assume > I'm not stupid and know how to use things like compilers :-) STABLE is definitely the go. ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/FreeBSD/sup/stable-supfile; pick a supserver near you (supN.freebsd.org where N is '', '2','3' or '4'). > b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, > but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there > is a spare machine that I can "burn" to have a code base > loaded on (that can be replicated FROM), but that there may > be differences in the hardware (ie: ethernet cards, disk The only platform variations live in the kernel config file. Have one for each machine; kernels are built in seperate directories so there's no problem there. > c) Has the "I need to load 'package y' without wiping the box", > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right > values!" problem that has plagued FreeBSD been solved? It's possible to use /stand/sysinstall to get a new disk up and running easily these days. There were noises about someone cutting the disk frobbing bits out and making a standalone tool, but I never saw the results. I'm not sure about your 'package y' problem; I don't recall anything like that ever happening. > d) How about stability in general? PCI Ethernet card drivers? > PCI disk drivers? NFS stability problems (we used to have > those up the wazoo). Support for >64M without kludges? Any > surprises I should expect (and benefits of current .vs. > stable, etc)? Stability is good here (9-5 code development, fileserving small Windows network, I/O hacking). If you're using 2940's, you will _definitely_ want to upgrade to STABLE, as 2.1R has _serious_ problems with these controllers. I can't answer on the NFS stuff, sorry. It's impossible to support >64M without a kludge; I'm sure this has been explained to death before. -current is lethal at the moment; stay away from it 8) > Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:09:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA01746 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:08:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from who.cdrom.com (who.cdrom.com [192.216.222.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA01584 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 09:07:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by who.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id CAA05836 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 02:24:08 -0800 Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id LAA23551; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:21:27 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id LAA11946; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:21:26 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id LAA04736; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:10:37 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602021010.LAA04736@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: login code To: cosmos@sponsor.octet.com (Daniel Leeds) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:10:37 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602011459.OAA00435@sponsor.octet.com> from "Daniel Leeds" at Feb 1, 96 02:59:09 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Daniel Leeds wrote: > > im basically learning how to code c here, and without all the logging and > kerberos of the standard login.c, would a basic login.c (not to be used > of course) be something like > > if [certain user id] (like root) > do (setuid 0) > execute login shell > else > do (setuid users_id) > execute login shell Once the user has been successfully authenticated, this are the basic steps (sometimes rather jumps :) as you could find them in login.c: /* Nothing else left to fail -- really log in. */ ... login(&utmp); ... (void)chown(ttyn, pwd->pw_uid, (gr = getgrnam(TTYGRPNAME)) ? gr->gr_gid : pwd->pw_gid); (void)setgid(pwd->pw_gid); initgroups(username, pwd->pw_gid); if (*pwd->pw_shell == '\0') pwd->pw_shell = _PATH_BSHELL; ... (void)setenv("HOME", pwd->pw_dir, 1); (void)setenv("SHELL", pwd->pw_shell, 1); ...further environment handling... if (setlogin(pwd->pw_name) < 0) syslog(LOG_ERR, "setlogin() failure: %m"); /* Discard permissions last so can't get killed and drop core. */ if (rootlogin) (void) setuid(0); else (void) setuid(pwd->pw_uid); ... execlp(pwd->pw_shell, tbuf, 0); err(1, "%s", pwd->pw_shell); -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 11:22:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA16200 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:22:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay1.fnet.fr (relay1.fnet.fr [192.134.192.129]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16183 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 11:22:16 -0800 (PST) From: haury@sagem.fr Received: from sagem.UUCP by relay1.fnet.fr (5.65c8d/92.02.29) via Fnet/EUnet-France id AA22208; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:22:11 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <199602021918.UAA10893@sagem.fr> Subject: Q: why install -d dir missing ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:18:38 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I am wondering why the well known option '-d' is missing in current install program. Since I am a newbie in FreeBSD, I hope it's not an old war :-) If the problem is just because no one has time to do that, here are my patches. I have copied the right routine in NetBSD 1.0 and adapted it for FreeBSD. NOTA: I have changed the '-d' (debug) option in '-D'. ======= CUT HERE (don't forget to remove my signature) ============= *** ./usr.bin/xinstall/install.1#ctm Wed Jan 31 14:35:24 1996 --- ./usr.bin/xinstall/install.1 Wed Jan 31 15:56:03 1996 *************** *** 47,53 **** .Op Fl o Ar owner .Ar file1 file2 .Nm install ! .Op Fl Ccdps .Op Fl f Ar flags .Op Fl g Ar group .Op Fl m Ar mode --- 47,53 ---- .Op Fl o Ar owner .Ar file1 file2 .Nm install ! .Op Fl CcDps .Op Fl f Ar flags .Op Fl g Ar group .Op Fl m Ar mode *************** *** 55,60 **** --- 55,67 ---- .Ar file1 \&... .Ar fileN directory + .Nm install + .Fl d + .Op Fl m Ar mode + .Op Fl o Ar owner + .Op Fl g Ar group + .Ar directory + \&... .Sh DESCRIPTION The file(s) are moved (or copied if the .Fl c *************** *** 79,96 **** This flag turns off the default behavior of .Nm install where it deletes the original file after creating the target. ! .It Fl d Print debugging information. If ! .Fl d is specified one or more times, then print the renaming steps for .Fl C . If ! .Fl d is specified two or more times, then warn about files that aren't installed with .Fl C . .It Fl f Specify the target's file flags. (See --- 86,106 ---- This flag turns off the default behavior of .Nm install where it deletes the original file after creating the target. ! .It Fl D Print debugging information. If ! .Fl D is specified one or more times, then print the renaming steps for .Fl C . If ! .Fl D is specified two or more times, then warn about files that aren't installed with .Fl C . + .It Fl d + Create directories. + Missing parent directories are created as required. .It Fl f Specify the target's file flags. (See *** ./usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall.c#ctm Tue Jan 30 11:41:50 1996 --- ./usr.bin/xinstall/xinstall.c Fri Feb 2 20:12:17 1996 *************** *** 81,87 **** struct passwd *pp; struct group *gp; ! int debug, docompare, docopy, dopreserve, dostrip; int mode = S_IRWXU|S_IRGRP|S_IXGRP|S_IROTH|S_IXOTH; char *group, *owner, pathbuf[MAXPATHLEN]; char pathbuf2[MAXPATHLEN]; --- 81,87 ---- struct passwd *pp; struct group *gp; ! int debug, docompare, docopy, dopreserve, dostrip, dodir; int mode = S_IRWXU|S_IRGRP|S_IXGRP|S_IROTH|S_IXOTH; char *group, *owner, pathbuf[MAXPATHLEN]; char pathbuf2[MAXPATHLEN]; *************** *** 111,117 **** char *flags, *to_name; iflags = 0; ! while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "Ccdf:g:m:o:ps")) != EOF) switch((char)ch) { case 'C': docompare = docopy = 1; --- 111,117 ---- char *flags, *to_name; iflags = 0; ! while ((ch = getopt(argc, argv, "CcDdf:g:m:o:ps")) != EOF) switch((char)ch) { case 'C': docompare = docopy = 1; *************** *** 119,127 **** case 'c': docopy = 1; break; ! case 'd': debug++; break; case 'f': flags = optarg; if (string_to_flags(&flags, &fset, NULL)) --- 119,130 ---- case 'c': docopy = 1; break; ! case 'D': debug++; break; + case 'd': + dodir = 1; + break; case 'f': flags = optarg; if (string_to_flags(&flags, &fset, NULL)) *************** *** 152,158 **** } argc -= optind; argv += optind; ! if (argc < 2) usage(); /* get group and owner id's */ --- 155,161 ---- } argc -= optind; argv += optind; ! if (argc < 2 && !dodir) usage(); /* get group and owner id's */ *************** *** 161,166 **** --- 164,176 ---- if (owner && !(pp = getpwnam(owner))) errx(EX_NOUSER, "unknown user %s", owner); + if (dodir) { + for (; *argv != NULL; ++argv) + build(*argv); + exit (0); + /* NOTREACHED */ + } + no_target = stat(to_name = argv[argc - 1], &to_sb); if (!no_target && (to_sb.st_mode & S_IFMT) == S_IFDIR) { for (; *argv != to_name; ++argv) *************** *** 492,497 **** --- 502,546 ---- } /* + * build -- + * build directory heirarchy + */ + build(path) + char *path; + { + register char *p; + struct stat sb; + int create, ch; + + for (create = 0, p = path;; ++p) + if (!*p || *p == '/') { + ch = *p; + *p = '\0'; + if (stat(path, &sb)) { + if (errno != ENOENT || mkdir(path, 0777) < 0) { + errx(EX_OSERR, "mkdir %s", path); + } + create = 1; + } else { + if ((sb.st_mode & S_IFMT) != S_IFDIR) { + errx(EX_CANTCREAT, "%s not a directory", + path); + } + } + if (!(*p = ch)) + break; + } + + if ((group || owner) && + chown(path, owner ? pp->pw_uid : -1, group ? gp->gr_gid : -1) || + chmod(path, mode)) { + errx(EX_OSERR, "chmod %s", path); + } + + return(0); + } + + /* * usage -- * print a usage message and die */ *************** *** 499,504 **** usage() { (void)fprintf(stderr, ! "usage: install [-Ccdps] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2;\n\tor file1 ... fileN directory\n"); exit(1); } --- 548,553 ---- usage() { (void)fprintf(stderr, ! "usage: install [-CcDps] [-f flags] [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] file1 file2;\n\tor file1 ... fileN directory;\n install -d [-g group] [-m mode] [-o owner] dir1 ... dirN;\n"); exit(1); } -- =Christian Haury (Christian.Haury@sagem.fr) --------------------------------------------------------- | SAGEM Eragny - Avenue du Gros Chene - Eragny BP 51 | | 95612 Cergy Pontoise Cedex - France | | phone : +33 (1) 34 30 53 93 | telex : 607387F | | fax : +33 (1) 34 30 50 28 | teletex : 933-130731770 | --------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 12:20:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA20567 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:20:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from mpp.minn.net (root@mpp.Minn.Net [204.157.201.242]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA20545 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:20:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mpp@localhost) by mpp.minn.net (8.7.3/8.6.9) id OAA02940 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:20:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: <199602022020.OAA02940@mpp.minn.net> Subject: libF77 & libl77 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:20:28 -0600 (CST) From: "Mike Pritchard" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 ME8b] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is there some reason that /usr/src/lib/libF77 and /usr/src/lib/libI77 are not in the /usr/src/lib/Makefile, and thus never installed on the system? -- Mike Pritchard mpp@minn.net "Go that way. Really fast. If something gets in your way, turn" From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 12:30:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA21263 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:30:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21255 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:30:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA08306; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 12:29:31 -0800 Message-Id: <199602022029.MAA08306@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Luigi Rizzo cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Who is looking after tcp/ip code ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 19:59:05 +0100." <199602021859.TAA15309@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 12:29:31 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >Is there anyone who is specifically looking after the tcp/ip code >(/sys/netinet) ? The sources on thud have CVS Ids by practically every >core-team member! You can't really determine anything about who manages what with the CVS Ids. >I am asking because my last proposal for a patch got completely >ignored, and I am wondering if this is a transient thing (I notice >the traffic on the lists is much lower these days). > >I understand that this is a delicate part of the system, so that >changes should be done with great care. This is why I'd like to >discuss the thing with other people to get their opinions. I forwarded your patch to Andras Olah who did the port of the T/TCP code in FreeBSD and is generally responsible for it. You can contact him directly at olah@freebsd.org. -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 13:06:07 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA24789 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:06:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from schizo.cdsnet.net (schizo.cdsnet.net [204.118.244.32]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA24776 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:05:55 -0800 (PST) Received: (from mrcpu@localhost) by schizo.cdsnet.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA01875; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:05:45 -0800 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:05:45 -0800 (PST) From: Jaye Mathisen To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2 questions. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Anybody using IPFW on the latest 2.1-stable? Any ruleset I try, even if policy is accept, and the rule is accept locks things up so that no net traffic goes out. Also, is there a problem with 3c509's in latest stable? I have 2 machines that now (after being rebooted last night with latest kernels from -stable) are locking up fairly regularly. I boot the older kernels and it's fine. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 13:23:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA26376 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:23:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26361 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:23:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA05882; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:23:10 -0800 (PST) To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:19:32 CST." Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 13:23:10 -0800 Message-ID: <5880.823296190@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > No, we want to be able to have a "code server" which can load, and keep > updated, multiple machines. That is, when I have system #15 to load, I want > to plug in the Ethernet, point the new box at the server, and say "go fetch > your load, kid". So you mean you want it to load binaries? I'm sure you could do a nightly `make release' or something and simply generate an up-to-date set of distribution tarballs whenever you needed them, or you could run `make world' on it and write an rdist script from hell that would update some other machine from its /bin, /usr/bin and so forth. > I understand it can be done with /stand/sysinstall. True? Yes. Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 13:46:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA28591 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:46:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA28538 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 13:45:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id WAA27230 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:45:27 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id WAA06113 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 22:45:18 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id VAA23862; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:45:08 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602022045.VAA23862@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 To: pst@cisco.com (Paul Traina) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 21:45:07 +0100 (MET) Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, jkh@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <199601312138.NAA21667@puli.cisco.com> from "Paul Traina" at "Jan 31, 96 01:38:44 pm" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk It seems that Paul Traina said: > I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) > There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're running > under. I don't think the -D__386BSD__ is correct either. This is the current #defines: /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=6 -Dunix -Di386 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix -D__i386 -Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) foo.c /tmp/cc023835.i -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 14:19:24 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA03536 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:19:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from puli.cisco.com (puli.cisco.com [171.69.1.174]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA03528 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:19:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by puli.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA12331; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:17:29 -0800 Message-Id: <199602022217.OAA12331@puli.cisco.com> To: Ollivier Robert Cc: andreas@knobel.gun.de, asami@cs.berkeley.edu, jkh@FreeBSD.org, ports@FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 21:45:07 +0100." <199602022045.VAA23862@keltia.freenix.fr> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 14:17:28 -0800 From: Paul Traina Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Exactly, the pentium port should ONLY define what the system compiler defines, and I'm quite happy with what the system compiler currently defines. (Well, ideally, it wouldn't define __FreeBSD__=2, but wtf) From: Ollivier Robert Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 It seems that Paul Traina said: > I don't think our current gcc defines bsd4_4, I'm certain it shouldn't. :-) > There's a well defined way to find out what version of the OS you're runnin >>g > under. I don't think the -D__386BSD__ is correct either. This is the current #defines: /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=6 -Dunix -D >>i386 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix -D__i386 >>-Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) foo.c /tmp/cc023 >>835.i -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 14:41:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA06534 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06524 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA27719 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:41:06 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA06383 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:41:05 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA24403; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:12:04 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602022212.XAA24403@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: maximum memory To: didier@omnix.fr.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:12:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "didier@omnix.fr.org" at "Feb 2, 96 11:22:06 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that didier@omnix.fr.org said: > I've just install 2 computer with 128mb but only 64mb are seen by > FreeBSD. I checked everywhere (handbook/faq) but I've not been able > to find anything. It seems that the parameter is MAXMEM in kb > from machdep.c (is it true) ? It *is* in the FAQ :-) ---------------------------- revision 1.23 date: 1995/12/03 17:21:07; author: roberto; state: Exp; lines: +98 -11 Add several questions including the MAXMEM kernel option, the DEC PCI card list and the npx0 being mandatory. ---------------------------- The latest one is always available at -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 14:41:21 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA06560 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from ibp.ibp.fr (ibp.ibp.fr [132.227.60.30]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA06551 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:41:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from blaise.ibp.fr (blaise.ibp.fr [132.227.60.1]) by ibp.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with ESMTP id XAA27727 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:41:08 +0100 Received: from (uucp@localhost) by blaise.ibp.fr (8.6.12/jtpda-5.0) with UUCP id XAA06386 ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:41:06 +0100 Received: (from roberto@localhost) by keltia.freenix.fr (8.7.3/keltia-uucp-2.7) id XAA24413; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:13:54 +0100 (MET) From: Ollivier Robert Message-Id: <199602022213.XAA24413@keltia.freenix.fr> Subject: Re: printer server To: didier@omnix.fr.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:13:54 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "didier@omnix.fr.org" at "Feb 2, 96 11:24:22 am" X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 2.2-CURRENT ctm#1586 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL3 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk It seems that didier@omnix.fr.org said: > I would like to transform a old 386dx40 into a printer server. > I only have 4mb of memory on this computer. is it possible to install > and older version of FreeBSD ? which one ? You can install a 2.0.5 and upgrade it later (if necessary) to 2.1.0 with 4 MB. You'd better compile a kernel for it on another machine though :-) > is samba running on this version ? Yes. I don't know how much memory it will take... -- Ollivier ROBERT -=- The daemon is FREE! -=- roberto@keltia.frmug.fr.net FreeBSD keltia.freenix.fr 2.2-CURRENT #1: Sun Jan 14 20:23:45 MET 1996 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 14:54:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA08259 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08254 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id PAA00673; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:51:41 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602022251.PAA00673@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Access Linux ext2fs from BSD's UFS To: vladimir@cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il (Denis Kopylenko) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:51:41 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "Denis Kopylenko" at Feb 2, 96 10:07:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Hi, > Is there any way to access Linux's ext2fs from the BSD's native UFS? No. But you could access Linux's ext2fs from BSD's native ext2fs. Is there any particular reason you want to use the wrong driver? 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 15:13:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11828 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:13:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11788 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:13:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA25333; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:15:47 -0700 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:15:47 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602022315.QAA25333@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: Jaye Mathisen Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 2 questions. In-Reply-To: References: Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > Anybody using IPFW on the latest 2.1-stable? Depends on how 'latest' you are talking about. I'm using a kernel from Jan. 19 with no problems. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 15:21:01 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA13155 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:21:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA13140 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:20:52 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id RAA12386; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:19:45 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602022319.RAA12386@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: curt@emergent.com (Curt Mayer) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:19:44 -0600 (CST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602020444.UAA00420@bluewhale.emergent.com> from "Curt Mayer" at Feb 1, 96 08:44:26 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > > Optional: NVram for acceleration of NFS &c. sockets > > > and a battery for 4-8 Mb ram. Possibly with a little > > > clock to do refresh so DRAM could be used. (cheaper) > > > > This is something we NEED, in order to do any sort of serious NFS service. > > PrestoServe style devices are handy in many scenarios in addition to NFS - > > news servers and other systems where lots of metadata updates are happening. > wrong. this is a trivial way to speed up metadata writes. there is a > software-only way called using an intent log. > > A once-boss of mine has a nfs fileserver that uses a homebrew filesystem > running in user space on a cluster of pc's running freebsd that eats an > auspex's lunch. how? logging. got parity protection, too.. I have yet to see any software-only mechanism (such as Sun's Online DiskSuite) keep pace with a PrestoServe. I would like very much to see a software-only mechanism that could. ODS manages about 60% of the throughput allowed by a PrestoServe, by my not-very-fair-or-impartial-just-off-the-top-of-my-head benchmarks. Looking back a half a year, we had the following benchmarks... Slowaris 5.4 - SS10/30 - 64MB RAM (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 249 seconds - first run 10000 files in 13 !!! seconds - second run Slowaris 5.4 - SS10/30 - 64MB RAM - PrestoServe (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 76 seconds - first run 10000 files in 12 seconds - second run FreeBSD 2.0.5R - ASUS SP3G AMD 486DX2/66 + NCR810 - 8MB (SCSI II, reasonable drive) 10000 files in 620 seconds - first run :-( :-( 10000 files in 310 seconds - second run :-( :-( :-( !! Now I did talk with some folks about this and it turned out that my test was close to a worst case scenario for FreeBSD... I was walking the directory tree in a most nasty manner and it was really grinding the system. To be fair let's re-examine those benchmarks of a half year ago on a FreeBSD-2.1.0R system... FreeBSD 2.1.0R - ASUS P54XE4??? Intel P100 + NCR810 + 96MB (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 540 seconds - first run 10000 files in 98 seconds - second run, improvement! Okay, let's mount -o async and repeat.. 10000 files in 257 seconds - first run 10000 files in 97 seconds - second run Wellll. Interpretation: even with -o async we're as slow as molasses compared to at least one other contemporary OS. And -o async doesn't buy us anything apparent for the second run, as opposed to a sync mount... now of course my benchmarks may still unintentionally be a FreeBSD worst-case, so I'll invert the ordering so that it is more "system friendly": Slowaris 5.4 - SS10/HS11 - 64MB RAM (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 288 seconds 10000 files in 23 seconds Slowaris 5.4 - SS10/30 - 64MB RAM - Online DiskSuite (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 130 seconds 10000 files in 34 seconds Slowaris 5.4 - SS10/HS11 - 64MB RAM - PrestoServe (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 83 seconds 10000 files in 26 seconds FreeBSD 2.1.0R - ASUS P54XE4??? Intel P100 + NCR810 + 96MB (SCSI II, Barracuda drive) 10000 files in 265 seconds 10000 files in 16 seconds FreeBSD 2.1.0R - ASUS P54XE4??? Intel P100 + NCR810 + 96MB (SCSI II, Barracuda drive, -o async) 10000 files in 159 seconds 10000 files in 17 seconds Some of the Solaris variance may be due to differing processor speeds. We should be able to come closer to the Solaris numbers. There is no unfair cache bashing going on or anything. > > I think it should probably be handled as a separate entity from the rest of > > this (it's not something everyone wants by a long shot). > agreed. the best reason for nvram is a persistent console log. ... Joe ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Joe Greco - Systems Administrator jgreco@ns.sol.net Solaria Public Access UNIX - Milwaukee, WI 414/546-7968 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 15:32:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA15201 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15171 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:31:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.7.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA06940; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:31:46 -0800 (PST) To: hackers@freebsd.org cc: doc@freebsd.org Subject: Any perl maniacs out there have a desire to improve our mail robot? Date: Fri, 02 Feb 1996 15:31:46 -0800 Message-ID: <6938.823303906@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Many of you have probably never even used our hardworking and unthanked robot information service which lives at info@freebsd.org, but if you have a few spare moments, I urge you to poke at it a bit. This is what answered some 103K requests for information last year, and I'm almost certain that it can be improved. The biggest problem the info robot service has right now is stale information brought about by the fact that the info robot has its own copies of everything. There are no links into our other docs, nor are any search services offered (which limits its utility somewhat). For those many folks still stuck with email as their only recourse, it seems like we could try a little harder to make this robot more useful! Any takers? We could bat some attempts at a functional spec around first if people aren't quite sure what to do, though I'd think the enhancements would almost tend to suggest themselves.. :-) First on the list would be hot links to current docs, whereever those might be (I don't think we have ascii excerpts from the handbook on freefall - suggestions?), then perhaps some ability to search the archives in /usr/local/mail/archive and return messages matched (up to some max threshold) by date/subject/pattern/mailing list. If someone wanted to get *really* fancy, they could even try to write an automated question parser which matches queries up with specially prepared FAQ entries.. Should be, what, 3 or 4 lines of PERL? :-) The current info robot source follows.. I don't know PERL, so most of my hacking on this has been pretty light. It's mostly as Ian Holland first submitted it. Thanks! Jordan # Copyright (c) 1994 Ian Holland # All rights reserved. # Redistribution and use, with or without modification, is permitted # provided that the following condition is met: # 1. Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright # notice and this list of conditions. # # Author: ianh@brillig.brisnet.org.au, ianh@mincom.oz.au # Version: $Id: mreply,v 1.1 1994/09/28 09:44:18 ianh Exp ianh $ # # The following variable need to be customised for local conditions. # # $home should be set to the directory containing informational files. # See %filelist below. $home = "/home/majordomo/info"; # $LOGFILE should be a path to a log of all the activity by this script. $LOGFILE = "$home/LOGFILE"; # $LOCKFILE is a file used to ensure that only one process writes to # the $LOGFILE at a time. Well, I hope it does anyway. $LOCKFILE = "$home/.lock"; # $Hlist is the name of the server - it may be descriptive. $Hlist = "info"; # $Hsite is the domain name of the server site. $Hsite = "FreeBSD.org"; # $Hreply is the (server) user that email is sent to, without domain. # Users will send mail to $Hreply@$Hsite $Hreply = "info"; # $sendmail should be the command that allows addresses to be specified # in the text of the message (standard input). $sendmail = "/usr/sbin/sendmail -t"; # $tempfile is a temporary file that holds the reply to a users request. # In this case, it checks for a value in the environment variables $TMP # and $TMPDIR (if neither is set "/tmp" is used), and uses a file # called "mreply.$$" in that directory. $$ is the PID of the current # perl program. $tempfile = ($ENV{'TMP'} || $ENV{'TMPDIR'} || "/tmp") . "/mreply.$$"; # %filelist is an associative array. The index is a name that users # request via the "send FILE" command. Note that these names are # case sensitive. # The value associated with each index is a set of two colon (':') # seperated fields. The first field is a path to the actual file, # while the second is a description of the file. %filelist = ( BLURB, "$home/BLURB:General information on FreeBSD", README, "$home/README.TXT:General welcome notes for FreeBSD 2.1", FAQ, "$home/freebsd-faq:FreeBSD Frequently Answered Questions", HANDBOOK, "$home/handbook:The FreeBSD 2.1 handbook", INSTALL, "$home/INSTALL.TXT:The FreeBSD 2.1 installation guide", RELNOTES, "$home/RELNOTES.TXT:The FreeBSD 2.1 release notes", CTM, "$home/ctm.FAQ:Getting the most up-to-date FreeBSD sources by mail", SUP, "$home/sup.FAQ:Getting the most up-to-date FreeBSD sources by Internet" , MIRROR_SITES, "$home/MIRROR.SITES:A list of FTP sites for obtaining FreeBSD" , ); # Set your umask here. Use normal umask(1) numerical syntax. umask(007); ############################################################################# # Everything past this point is set in concrete (albeit wet concrete). # Nothing should need to be changed below here for local conditions. It may # need to be changed to fix bugs, though. # &parseheader(STDIN, *hdrs); $replyto = &replyaddress(*hdrs); &initlogging($LOGFILE, $LOCKFILE); open(STDOUT, ">$tempfile") || die "Cannot open $tempfile: $!\n"; ($srt = $replyto) =~ s/\t/ /g; $messageid = join("\t", sprintf("%02.2d"x6, (localtime())[5,4,3,2,1,0]), $srt); # Process the message - should we look at the subject line? while () { if (/^help\s*$/) { push(@work, "help"); &sendhelp(); } elsif (/^info\s*$/) { push(@work, "info"); &sendfile("BLURB"); } elsif (/^list\s*$/) { push(@work, "list"); &sendfilelist(); } elsif (/^reply\s+(\S+)/) { $replyto = $1; push(@work, "reply($replyto)"); } elsif (/^send\s+(\S+)/) { $file = $1; push(@work, "send($file)"); &sendfile($file); } } if ($#work < $[) { # No recognisable commands, so we'll send the standard blurb. push(@work, "default-info"); &sendfile("BLURB"); } grep(s/$/ /, @work); close STDOUT; &sendmail($replyto, $tempfile, *hdrs); unlink $tempfile; &log($messageid, "\t", @work); exit 0; sub sendhelp { print <<"EOH"; Welcome to $Hreply@$Hsite The following commands are recognised by this server. Each command must be contained on a line by itself, with no leading whitespace. Command What will happen help this message will be sent info an information sheet on FreeBSD will be sent list a list of files that may be requested will be sent reply this will set the return path, in case of bad headers send FILE the specified file will be sent EOH } sub sendfilelist { local($key, @list); local($desc); @list = sort keys %filelist; printf "%-24.24s%s\n", "Name", "Description"; print "\n"; foreach $key (@list) { $desc = (split(/:/, $filelist{$key}, 2))[1]; printf "%-24.24s%s\n", $key, $desc; } print "\n"; } sub sendfile { local($index) = $_[0]; local($path, $desc, $_); if (!defined($filelist{$index})) { print "The file you have requested ($index) is not available\n"; print "from this server.\n"; print "You may use the command \"list\" to get a list\n"; print "of the available files.\n"; return; } ($path, $desc) = split(/:/, $filelist{$index}, 2); open(FILE, "<$path") || do { print "The file $index is temporarily unavailable.\n"; &log("*** error *** Cannot read $index ($path)"); return; }; while () { print; } close FILE; } sub sendmail { local($address, $file, *headers) = @_; local($_); open(REPLY, "<$file") || die "Cannot open $file: $!\n"; open(EMAIL, "|$sendmail") || die "Cannot exec $sendmail: $!\n"; print EMAIL <<"EOM"; To: $address From: $Hlist Subject: Your mail to $Hreply@$Hsite In-Reply-To: $headers{'message-id'}, from $headers{'from'} Reply-To: $Hreply@$Hsite EOM while () { print EMAIL $_; } close EMAIL; close REPLY; } package logging; sub main'initlogging { ($file, $lock) = @_; } sub main'log { &lock(); open(LOG, ">>$file") || die "Cannot write to log file ($file): $!\n"; print LOG join("", @_), "\n"; close LOG; &unlock(); } sub lock { local($umask); $umask = umask(0777); while (!open(LOCK, ">$lock")) { sleep 1; } print LOCK $$; close LOCK; umask $umask; } sub unlock { unlink $lock; } package mailheader; sub main'parseheader { local($fh, *headers) = @_; local($_, @lines); local($*, $/) = (1, "\n\n"); local($field, $value); $_ = <$fh>; s/\n(.)/\n$1$1/g; @lines = split(/\n\S/); grep(s/\n\s+/ /g, @lines); foreach $_ (@lines) { ($field, $value) = split(/:\s*/, $_, 2); $field =~ tr[A-Z][a-z]; $headers{$field} = $value if !($field =~ /\s/); } } sub main'replyaddress { local(*headers) = $_[0]; local($rc); $rc = $headers{'reply-to'} || $headers{'from'}; } From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 15:49:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA18612 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18605 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <16297(7)>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:16 PST Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:49:08 -0800 X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.4 10/10/95 To: Joe Greco cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au (Michael Smith), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:54:01 PST." <199602021854.MAA11875@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 15:48:59 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Feb2.154908pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message <199602021854.MAA11875@brasil.moneng.mei.com>you write: >> If you're going to decode the I/O's already, don't bother with the UART. > >Your intent is to emulate the UART? I'm sorry, I'm not THAT good at digital >logic design :-) I wouldn't know where to start. *Software*, Joe! We're hackers, right? Just decode the PC's I/O space in a creative way to the microprocessor, and let the software on the uP handle the rest =) Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 16:17:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA21994 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:17:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21989 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:17:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id BAA12759; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 01:17:31 +0100 X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nietzsche.bowtie.nl (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id AAA18723; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:54:23 +0100 Message-Id: <199602022354.AAA18723@nietzsche.bowtie.nl> X-Mailer: exmh version 1.6.1 5/23/95 To: Terry Lambert cc: jmb@freebsd.org (Jonathan M. Bresler), jkh@time.cdrom.com, dglo@SSEC.WISC.EDU, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, chuck@fang.cs.sunyit.edu, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Willows In-reply-to: terry's message of Thu, 01 Feb 1996 18:10:59 -0700. <199602020111.SAA14306@phaeton.artisoft.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 00:54:22 +0100 From: Marc van Kempen Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk ... > > > > ya nearly got me there, terry. a mailing list for 3 soon to 5 > > people, yuck, yuck, yuck. > > > > how about using chat till the list grows? seriously....chat is > > very low volume. > > Or big CC lines, like this one... > I just downloaded the sources, it compiles pretty far with some more or less trivial patches. But I haven't looked at the hard stuff yet. For example now it falls over ExecUtl.S, but I'm not much of an assembler guy. Did anyone get any further? Regards, Marc. ---------------------------------------------------- Marc van Kempen BowTie Technology Email: marc@bowtie.nl WWW & Databases tel. +31 40 2 43 20 65 fax. +31 40 2 44 21 86 http://www.bowtie.nl ---------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 16:31:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA22851 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:31:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sequent.kiae.su (sequent.kiae.su [144.206.136.6]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA22844 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 16:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by sequent.kiae.su id AA04475 (5.65.kiae-2 ); Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:18:59 +0300 Received: by sequent.KIAE.su (UUMAIL/2.0); Sat, 3 Feb 96 03:18:58 +0300 Received: (from ache@localhost) by ache.dialup.ru (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA00414; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:17:34 +0300 (MSK) To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Mike Pritchard References: <199602022020.OAA02940@mpp.minn.net> In-Reply-To: <199602022020.OAA02940@mpp.minn.net>; from Mike Pritchard at Fri, 2 Feb 1996 14:20:28 -0600 (CST) Message-Id: Organization: Olahm Ha-Yetzirah Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:17:34 +0300 (MSK) X-Mailer: Mail/@ [v2.42 FreeBSD] From: =?KOI8-R?Q?=E1=CE=C4=D2=C5=CA_=FE=C5=D2=CE=CF=D7?= (aka Andrey A. Chernov, Black Mage) X-Class: Fast Subject: Re: libF77 & libl77 Lines: 13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk In message <199602022020.OAA02940@mpp.minn.net> Mike Pritchard writes: >Is there some reason that /usr/src/lib/libF77 and /usr/src/lib/libI77 >are not in the /usr/src/lib/Makefile, and thus never installed >on the system? See libf2c/Makefile -- Andrey A. Chernov : And I rest so composedly, /Now, in my bed, ache@astral.msk.su : That any beholder /Might fancy me dead - http://dt.demos.su/~ache : Might start at beholding me, /Thinking me dead. RELCOM Team,FreeBSD Team : E.A.Poe From "For Annie" 1849 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 17:23:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA26869 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:23:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26864 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:23:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA01041; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:19:47 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602030119.SAA01041@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:19:47 -0700 (MST) Cc: curt@emergent.com, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602022319.RAA12386@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 2, 96 05:19:44 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [ ... NFS benchmarks ... ] > Some of the Solaris variance may be due to differing processor speeds. > > We should be able to come closer to the Solaris numbers. There is no unfair > cache bashing going on or anything. Solaris' NFS implementation "unfairly" uses metadata write clustering. It delays the actual write completion to allow multiple modifications to the same object to take a single write. It *lies* to the client about having committed the metadata update before returning. It is possible to turn off write clustering (I forget the symbol name, but it's easy to find with the kernel debugger on Solaris). In addition, the Solaris UFS implementation is multithreaded; this means that it implements delayed ordered writes, even if only as a side effect of kernel preemptibiliy synchronization guarantees (ie: contrary to some opinions, kernel multithreading is a generic win even in the non-SMP case). If you are going to go async on FreeBSD, you should do the same on Solaris, out of fairness (see Solaris patch following signature). Going async is (of course) bogus BS of the first order. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: THIS IS AN UNOFFICAL PATCH. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. ========== asyncnfs.sh =================================================== #!/bin/sh patch_53() { case "$1" in no|off) w0=0x94102010 w1=0x9fc3c000 ;; yes|on|*) w0=0x94102000 w1=0x90102000 ;; esac adb -wk /dev/ksyms /dev/mem <&2 exit 1 ;; esac exit 0 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 17:26:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA27172 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:26:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27155 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 17:26:10 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id MAA10524; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:22:45 +1100 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:22:45 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602030122.MAA10524@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, mpp@mpp.minn.net Subject: Re: libF77 & libl77 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >Is there some reason that /usr/src/lib/libF77 and /usr/src/lib/libI77 >are not in the /usr/src/lib/Makefile, and thus never installed >on the system? Yes, they're built and installed from /usr/src/lib/libf2c. They should have been organized better. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 18:16:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA00871 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:16:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from haven.uniserve.com (haven.uniserve.com [198.53.215.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00865 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:16:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by haven.uniserve.com id <30740-4>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:19:00 -0000 Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 18:18:56 -0800 (PST) From: Tom Samplonius To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: stty? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Why does the following: stty 38400 < /dev/cuaa3 not set the baud rate to 38400? If I do a "stty < /dev/cuaa3" afterwards, it says that the baud rate is still 9600. Tom From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 19:27:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA09827 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:27:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from werple.net.au (werple.mira.net.au [203.9.190.18]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09807 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 19:27:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from cimaxp1.UUCP (Ucimlogi@localhost) by werple.net.au (8.7/8.7.1) with UUCP id NAA26705 for hackers@FreeBSD.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:54:25 +1100 (EST) Message-Id: <199602030254.NAA26705@werple.net.au> X-Authentication-Warning: werple.net.au: Ucimlogi set sender to cimaxp1!jb using -f Received: by cimaxp1.cimlogic.com.au; (5.65/1.1.8.2/10Sep95-0953AM) id AA07431; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:53:23 +1100 From: John Birrell Subject: timespec definition To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:53:23 +1100 (EST) Cc: jb@cimlogic.com.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk G'day, Last week I posted a message to a NetBSD mailing list concerning their definition of timespec. I should have sent the same message to FreeBSD, so here it is... For some time I've been annoyed by the FreeBSD definition of timespec (which uses ts_sec and ts_nsec where other systems use tv_sec and tv_nsec). We use timespec a lot and I'm tired of doing... #ifdef __FreeBSD__ code for non-standard timespec #else code for standard timespec #endif The FreeBSD header file refers to POSIX 1003.4 which has been replaced by POSIX 1003.1b-1993. Section 14.1.1 says that timespec includes at least tv_sec and tv_nsec and implementations may add extensions. The feedback I get from NetBSD is that their change will happen RSN. Can someone please make the change to FreeBSD too? Regards, -- John Birrell CIMlogic Pty Ltd jb@cimlogic.com.au 119 Cecil Street Ph +61 3 9690 6900 South Melbourne Vic 3205 Fax +61 3 9690 6650 Australia Mob +61 18 353 137 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 20:07:25 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA16034 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:07:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from alpha.xerox.com (alpha.Xerox.COM [13.1.64.93]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16011 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:07:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from crevenia.parc.xerox.com ([13.2.116.11]) by alpha.xerox.com with SMTP id <14876(11)>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:06:35 PST Received: from localhost by crevenia.parc.xerox.com with SMTP id <177478>; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:06:30 -0800 To: Tom Samplonius cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: stty? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 96 18:18:56 PST." Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:06:15 PST From: Bill Fenner Message-Id: <96Feb2.200630pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk In message you wr ite: > Why does the following: > >stty 38400 < /dev/cuaa3 > >not set the baud rate to 38400? If I do a "stty < /dev/cuaa3" >afterwards, it says that the baud rate is still 9600. Because the port resets itself to initial settings whenever it is closed and then re-opened. You can use the "initial settings" device, /dev/cuaia3, or you can keep the device open between the stty and the use. Bill From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 20:30:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA19865 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:30:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19858 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:30:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa10242; 2 Feb 96 20:30 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Terry Lambert Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:23:55 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: gerg@stallion.oz.au, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199601311821.LAA10154@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Jan 31, 96 11:21:01 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9602031423.aa23223@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes: > > > The host driver code will be available in source form. It has been > > available for Linux for about 12 months now. The slave (that is download) > > code will only be available in binary. It was just easier to use Stallions > > standard image, since it has just about everything you will ever need to > > do in it. And in any case most people will not have the tools to build it... > > What are the distribution terms on this image? These images are "Copyright Stallion Technologies", but are freely redistributable. Stallion provides these images "as is", and disclaims any warranty, or fitness for any particular purpose. Absolutely no support is supplied by Stallion when using these images outside if officially supported Stallion product. So, anybody is free to use them and redistribute them, but no support is provided by Stallion. > > Alternately, is it in a standard location as a seperate file on the > disks that come with the boards so an install script for FreeBSD can > be written and thrown into "ports"? Yep. All supported operating system drivers for these boards from Stallion have these images on them. But, it would be easier if they where just in the FreeBSD distribution already :-) Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCLAIMER: I do not officially speak for Stallion Technologies. Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 20:33:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA20359 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:33:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from easy.stallion.com (easy.stallion.com [204.31.184.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA20347 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 20:33:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from cluster.stallion.oz.au by easy.stallion.com id aa10248; 2 Feb 96 20:31 PST Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: Michael Smith Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:25:14 +1000 (AEST) From: Greg Ungerer Cc: terry@lambert.org, gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602010101.LAA20513@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> from "Michael Smith" at Feb 1, 96 11:31:12 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <9602031425.aa23238@cluster.stallion.oz.au> Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Michael Smith writes: > Terry Lambert stands accused of saying: > > > The host driver code will be available in source form. It has been > > > available for Linux for about 12 months now. The slave (that is download) > > > code will only be available in binary. It was just easier to use Stallions > > > standard image, since it has just about everything you will ever need to > > > do in it. And in any case most people will not have the tools to build it... > > > > What are the distribution terms on this image? > > More importantly, is the interface to this image well defined and > available? No slight on Gerg, but I can imagine a number of core > members who will indubitably want to tinker 8) Yeah, it is well defined. There is a document that describes the interface and how it works. I am not sure of what its distribution status is though. I will check up on that... Seeya Gerg --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Ungerer EMAIL: gerg@stallion.com Stallion Technologies Pty Ltd PHONE: +61 7 3270 4271 33 Woodstock Rd, Toowong, QLD 4066, Australia FAX: +61 7 3270 4245 From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 2 23:25:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA04767 for hackers-outgoing; Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:25:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au (yarrina.connect.com.au [192.189.54.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA04746 Fri, 2 Feb 1996 23:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by yarrina.connect.com.au with UUCP id SAA04760 (8.6.12/IDA-1.6); Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:23:49 +1100 Received: from localhost (giles@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nemeton.com.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA18649; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:21:16 +1100 Message-Id: <199602030721.SAA18649@nemeton.com.au> To: "Jordan K. Hubbard" cc: hackers@freebsd.org, doc@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Any perl maniacs out there have a desire to improve our mail robot? In-reply-to: <6938.823303906@time.cdrom.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 18:21:14 +1100 From: Giles Lean Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 02 Feb 1996 15:31:46 -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > For those many folks still stuck with email as their only recourse, it > seems like we could try a little harder to make this robot more useful! > > Any takers? "Bags I!" > First on the list would be hot links to current docs, whereever those > might be (I don't think we have ascii excerpts from the handbook on > freefall - suggestions?), then perhaps some ability to search the > archives in /usr/local/mail/archive and return messages matched (up to > some max threshold) by date/subject/pattern/mailing list. Links are easy. Searching is easy too, although too much data will beat up the machine unless we pre-index. Should this hook into the search engine on the Web server? > If someone wanted to get *really* fancy, they could even try to write > an automated question parser which matches queries up with specially > prepared FAQ entries.. Should be, what, 3 or 4 lines of PERL? :-) Yeah, right! And we'll get Randal Schwartz to re-write the 3 or 4 lines to 1 line and make it a sendmail alias. :-) A FAQ lookup by keyword is probably a good idea. Giles P.S. I also propose moving to perl5 -- any objections? From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 00:18:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA07902 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:18:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA07894 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:18:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA00971; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:04:07 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602030834.TAA00971@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: bakul@netcom.com (Bakul Shah) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:04:07 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602020824.AAA12804@netcom22.netcom.com> from "Bakul Shah" at Feb 2, 96 00:24:00 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Bakul Shah stands accused of saying: > > > > May be one of those single board computers (aka SBC) built > > > around a 286 will do the trick? 2ser+1par+memory+cpu etc. > > > are all on an ISA card and you can plug one or more of these > > > in an ISA `passive backplane'. If you are in the SF Bay > > > I can think of better and cheaper ways to make smoke with > > my computer. Stuffing alfoil into the ISA slots comes to mind. > > Care to elaborate? Perhaps you are generalizing your own bad > experience a bit too far? There are all sorts of ISA cards > with memory,cpu,IO etc. -- nothing magic in that. A PC motherboard is not a 'passive backplane'. If you're keen to understand better, I suggest you invest in one of these cards and try it out. Don't expect both the motherboard and the card to survive the experience, although you may be lucky. > > IIRC, these guys are F1-based. Try getting P&A on an F1 these > > days. > > No, {handy,mini}board use E9 which has 2K eeprom. The HC711E9 has 512 bytes of EEPROM and 12K of EPROM. It's also unavailable. The only two members of the 'E' series that can be had are the SEC811E2, which I've already mentioned my intention of using, and the XC711E20, which is a plastic OTPROM part with 20K of EPROM and 512 bytes of EEPROM. It'd be OK, except that it's too expensive. > The point was that if people just want some sort of watchdog > gizmo, starting from existing kits/boards is a lot faster. > Pie-in-the-sky boards are fun to dream about but they never > get built. 'Faster' is somewhat relative here, especially when you suggest designs that can't possibly work, or for which parts are not readily available. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 00:21:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08247 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:21:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08240 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:21:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA25412; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:21:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA23491; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:21:18 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA08481; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:05:44 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602030805.JAA08481@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:05:43 +0100 (MET) Cc: karl@mcs.com Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <700.823231940@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 1, 96 07:32:20 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right > > That's still kind of rough, yes. Not as smooth as `disksetup' (presumably -- i've never been using it), but you've got it more convenient, without vamping a disktab entry. In -current, you could do: disklabel -Brw sdX auto disklabel -e sdX If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality into -stable. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 00:22:16 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08363 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:22:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA08356 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:22:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id JAA25425; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:21:40 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id JAA23499; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:21:35 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id JAA08659; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:20:32 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602030820.JAA08659@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: printer server To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:20:32 +0100 (MET) Cc: didier@omnix.fr.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602022213.XAA24413@keltia.freenix.fr> from "Ollivier Robert" at Feb 2, 96 11:13:54 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Ollivier Robert wrote: > > It seems that didier@omnix.fr.org said: > > I would like to transform a old 386dx40 into a printer server. > > I only have 4mb of memory on this computer. is it possible to install > > and older version of FreeBSD ? which one ? > > You can install a 2.0.5 and upgrade it later (if necessary) to 2.1.0 with 4 > MB. You'd better compile a kernel for it on another machine though :-) I've installed a private 2.2-SNAP yesterday on such a machine. Thanks to PHK's ``boot4'' floppy image, it went flawlessly, even though this is one of the 3700KB-only machines, i.e. the ISA hole cannot be remapped. The machine runs comparably well, i can even launch an X server on it. It's wd disk is a bit flakey, but that's hardware. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 00:23:00 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08427 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:23:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08412 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:22:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA00989; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:05:45 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602030835.TAA00989@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:05:44 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, phk@critter.tfs.com, jkh@time.cdrom.com, dgy@rtd.com, freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb2.102042pst.177479@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Feb 2, 96 10:20:37 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Bill Fenner stands accused of saying: > >Anyone out there ever written a video BIOS? > > PC BIOS's probably still all have code to deal with BIOS-less mono video > cards; why not just decode the video memory range and update internal state > with the memory writes, then convert them into VT100 codes (or, rather, the > card should have a downloadable termcap in NVRAM so that I can plug in my > tvi925!...) That means RAM on the card. Yecch. You still need a BIOS hook to be able to fake the keyboard. > Bill -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 00:28:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id AAA08783 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:28:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA08776 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 00:28:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id TAA01018; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:13:06 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602030843.TAA01018@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:13:06 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602021854.MAA11875@brasil.moneng.mei.com> from "Joe Greco" at Feb 2, 96 12:54:01 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Joe Greco stands accused of saying: > > > If you're going to decode the I/O's already, don't bother with the UART. > > I have a rough schematic for this already, and I'll work on it when I can; > > keep the ideas coming 8) > > Your intent is to emulate the UART? I'm sorry, I'm not THAT good at digital > logic design :-) I wouldn't know where to start. No, not at all! I've been tinkering with various designs, but all of them use a couple of registers and a much more sensible mode of operation. The current leading design has a read/write data register and a command/status register. I've considered having an interrupt generated on any chnage in the status register. All this is a little hypothetical just now, as I'm concentrating on the watchdog card. If it works out, it should do the basics, and with a TXCO on it should give a good, stable frequency reference. Accessing it won't be fast, sorry Bruce 8( > ... Joe -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 01:54:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id BAA16152 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 01:54:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailhub.aros.net (mailhub.aros.net [205.164.111.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id BAA16147 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 01:54:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from terra.aros.net (terra.aros.net [205.164.111.10]) by mailhub.aros.net (8.6.12/Unknown) with ESMTP id JAA09936; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:54:52 GMT Received: (from angio@localhost) by terra.aros.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA19117; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:53:04 -0700 From: Dave Andersen Message-Id: <199602030953.CAA19117@terra.aros.net> Subject: Re: Any perl maniacs out there have a desire to improve our mail robot? To: giles@nemeton.com.au (Giles Lean) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:53:03 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, jhk@time.cdrom.com In-Reply-To: <199602030721.SAA18649@nemeton.com.au> from "Giles Lean" at Feb 3, 96 06:21:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Lo and behold, Giles Lean once said: > On Fri, 02 Feb 1996 15:31:46 -0800 "Jordan K. Hubbard" wrote: > > > For those many folks still stuck with email as their only recourse, it > > seems like we could try a little harder to make this robot more useful! > > > > Any takers? > > "Bags I!" Here's another taker for it. :-) > > First on the list would be hot links to current docs, whereever those > > might be (I don't think we have ascii excerpts from the handbook on > > freefall - suggestions?), then perhaps some ability to search the > > archives in /usr/local/mail/archive and return messages matched (up to > > some max threshold) by date/subject/pattern/mailing list. > > Links are easy. Searching is easy too, although too much data will > beat up the machine unless we pre-index. Should this hook into the > search engine on the Web server? Complete agreement on both counts. The pre-indexing isn't my area of specialty, though. We have a similar FAQ searching thing here, but we manually index the entries. > > If someone wanted to get *really* fancy, they could even try to write > > an automated question parser which matches queries up with specially > > prepared FAQ entries.. Should be, what, 3 or 4 lines of PERL? :-) > > Yeah, right! And we'll get Randal Schwartz to re-write the 3 or 4 > lines to 1 line and make it a sendmail alias. :-) > > A FAQ lookup by keyword is probably a good idea. Doing this in a general way isn't hard at all. If you have your indices, then all you do is strip the non-keywords out of the query, and then return a matching list as though they'd done a keyword search. As scary as it sounds, this actually isn't too bad to do in a couple of lines. I'd be more than pleased to do the english-language query parsing code. I actually have a neat little keyword-weighing idea floating around in my head that's half-coded already. > P.S. I also propose moving to perl5 -- any objections? *shrug* :) No opinion either way. -Dave Andersen -- angio@aros.net Complete virtual hosting and business-oriented system administration Internet services. (WWW, FTP, email) http://www.aros.net/ http://www.aros.net/about/virtual/ "There are only two industries that refer to thier customers as 'users'." From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 02:27:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id CAA18190 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:27:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id CAA18178 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 02:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([193.88.44.194]) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA24060 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:15:06 +0100 Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA05993; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:24:10 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com (Joe Greco), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 19:13:06 +1030." <199602030843.TAA01018@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 11:24:07 +0100 Message-ID: <5991.823343047@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > All this is a little hypothetical just now, as I'm concentrating on the > watchdog card. If it works out, it should do the basics, and with a TXCO > on it should give a good, stable frequency reference. Accessing it > won't be fast, sorry Bruce 8( The bit Bruce said about the 64bit counter is important. Can you make it so that the count is latched when you read the LSB so that the count read is atomic ? Also, consider putting it on an IDE cable, it may be faster actually... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 03:19:08 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA20580 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:19:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA20573 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:19:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id WAA01376; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:03:22 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602031133.WAA01376@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:03:22 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <5991.823343047@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 3, 96 11:24:07 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > All this is a little hypothetical just now, as I'm concentrating on the > > watchdog card. If it works out, it should do the basics, and with a TXCO > > on it should give a good, stable frequency reference. Accessing it > > won't be fast, sorry Bruce 8( > > The bit Bruce said about the 64bit counter is important. Can you make > it so that the count is latched when you read the LSB so that the > count read is atomic ? The plan is for an 8254 running off a 1MHz clock with the counters chained. I was going to use the first two as the timer element and the third to time the relay closure, but this can be done with a 555 easily enough. Bruce has the 8254 data, I suspect that you would as well. Yes, you can latch everything inside it all at once. Would having two counters (32 bits) be enough? The tap points on the chain would then be 1KHz and 1Hz, or 100Hz and 1Hz (either is possible), with resolution (by latching the counts) back to 1us. If I were to generate an interrupt on the first tap, you'd still be at interrupt latency's mercy for your final accuracy. With a cheap oscillator, this would be accurate to ~50ppm, and a TXCO would take it down to ~5ppm with very low drift. > Also, consider putting it on an IDE cable, it may be faster actually... The 'basic' device is currently a small amount of shrapnel (245,541,688,74) the timer, a 555, a crystal and a relay. I don't intend to make this any fancier than it _really_ has to be. > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 03:40:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA21707 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from ra.dkuug.dk (ra.dkuug.dk [193.88.44.193]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA21688 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:40:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from critter.tfs.com ([140.145.230.144]) by ra.dkuug.dk (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id MAA24375; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:28:24 +0100 Received: from localhost.tfs.com (localhost.tfs.com [127.0.0.1]) by critter.tfs.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06262; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:37:31 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: critter.tfs.com: Host localhost.tfs.com didn't use HELO protocol To: Michael Smith cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 22:03:22 +1030." <199602031133.WAA01376@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 12:37:29 +0100 Message-ID: <6260.823347449@critter.tfs.com> From: Poul-Henning Kamp Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > Also, consider putting it on an IDE cable, it may be faster actually... > > The 'basic' device is currently a small amount of shrapnel (245,541,688,74) > the timer, a 555, a crystal and a relay. I don't intend to make this > any fancier than it _really_ has to be. That was exactly my point. Most systems have an IDE i/f they don't use. If you put it there you have decode+buffers done already... -- Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. http://www.freebsd.org/~phk | phk@login.dknet.dk Private mailbox. whois: [PHK] | phk@ref.tfs.com TRW Financial Systems, Inc. Future will arrive by its own means, progress not so. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 03:59:47 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id DAA23144 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:59:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from haywire.DIALix.COM (root@haywire.DIALix.COM [192.203.228.65]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA23135 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 03:59:37 -0800 (PST) Received: (from news@localhost) by haywire.DIALix.COM (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA22335 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:00:50 +0800 Received: from GATEWAY by haywire.DIALix.COM with netnews for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (problems to: usenet@haywire.dialix.com) To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: 3 Feb 96 11:56:03 GMT From: peter@jhome.DIALix.COM (Peter Wemm) Message-ID: Organization: DIALix Services, Perth, Australia. References: <199601310912.KAA19929@uriah.heep.sax.de>, <199601311842.LAA10227@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: a question about boot-manager Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk terry@lambert.org (Terry Lambert) writes: >> > Let me add that if the sparing sectors were moved to the end of the >> > 'a' slice, it would have two effects: >> >> > b) The bad sector area could be grown at the expense of decreasing >> > the available swap in the 'b' slice following the sparing area. >> >> ...but only if the swap space physically follows the boot partition. >> Nothing mandates this. >The kernel's automounting of swap slices "mandates" this. >The default installation tools "mandate" this. >We can take a survey and see how many of us have swap on slice 'b', >but since that is where the install tools put it, it's probably >99.9% of us -- just like having "/" on slice 'a'. Just out of interest, the dumpdev must be a 'b' slice.. This is enforced in i386/machdep.c... dumpsys() ... if ((minor(dumpdev)&07) != 1) return; ... This (IMHO) is pretty bogus, especially when I was trying to use a specially reserved slice for a dump partition that wasn't going to get spammed at boot. I never could figure out why crashdumps were not going in.. I "discovered" this a few weeks ago and let off a scream of anguish at the hours/days of wasted time from several months ago. -Peter > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org >--- >Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present >or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 04:07:53 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA23591 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il (cfd.eng.tau.ac.il [132.66.48.40]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA23542 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il; id AA17392; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:04:35 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:04:34 +0200 (IST) From: Denis Kopylenko To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Access Linux ext2fs from BSD's UFS In-Reply-To: <199602022251.PAA00673@phaeton.artisoft.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi, Terry. Do we talk about the same version of FreeBSD? I mean FreeBSD 2.1.0 and as far as I see it has not any ext2fs drivers. If there is such driver for FreeBSD, might be I could patch my kernel? If you know where to get a patch, please point me. Thanks, Denis. On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > Hi, > > Is there any way to access Linux's ext2fs from the BSD's native UFS? > > No. > > But you could access Linux's ext2fs from BSD's native ext2fs. > > Is there any particular reason you want to use the wrong driver? 8-). > > > Terry Lambert > terry@lambert.org > --- > Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present > or previous employers. > From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 04:18:19 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA25546 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:18:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from hda.com (hda.com [199.232.40.182]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA25539 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:18:12 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dufault@localhost) by hda.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id HAA08090; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:20:27 -0500 From: Peter Dufault Message-Id: <199602031220.HAA08090@hda.com> Subject: Re: printer server To: didier@omnix.fr.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:20:26 -0500 (EST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: from "didier@omnix.fr.org" at Feb 2, 96 11:24:22 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would like to transform a old 386dx40 into a printer server. > I only have 4mb of memory on this computer. is it possible to install > and older version of FreeBSD ? which one ? You can build a kernel on another system and run it on 4MB just fine. The bigger problem is if you want to run ghostscript on the printer server then your 4MB will be too small. -- Peter Dufault Real-Time Machine Control and Simulation HD Associates, Inc. Voice: 508 433 6936 dufault@hda.com Fax: 508 433 5267 From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 04:32:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA26182 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:32:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA26176 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:32:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id XAA01515; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:16:44 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602031246.XAA01515@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: phk@critter.tfs.com (Poul-Henning Kamp) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:16:44 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <6260.823347449@critter.tfs.com> from "Poul-Henning Kamp" at Feb 3, 96 12:37:29 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Poul-Henning Kamp stands accused of saying: > > > > Also, consider putting it on an IDE cable, it may be faster actually... > > > > The 'basic' device is currently a small amount of shrapnel (245,541,688,74) > > the timer, a 555, a crystal and a relay. I don't intend to make this > > any fancier than it _really_ has to be. > > That was exactly my point. Most systems have an IDE i/f they don't > use. If you put it there you have decode+buffers done already... Hmm. Not necessarily a bad idea, although I'm not sure how other people feel about this. Mandating an entire spare controller channel is probably ruder than asking for an 8-bit ISA slot. OBTW for those of you following this, yes, I left the 16v8 off my parts summary. Apologies. > Poul-Henning Kamp | phk@FreeBSD.ORG FreeBSD Core-team. -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 04:36:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA26481 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA26467 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA04943 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:36:08 -0800 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: 2.2-960130-SNAP on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 04:36:07 -0800 Message-ID: <4940.823350967@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk This release is not an ideal one, as this entry from the KNOWNBUGS file will attest: o For some reason which I'm still tracking down, /usr/libexec/telnetd and possibly other binaries are missing from the bin distribution. Temporary workaround: Always extract the DES distribution to get a working telnetd. International users will have to wait for a 2.2 DES dist or try the 2.1 RELEASE version. But it seems to work well enough for 2.2 snapshot testers, and it also contains a copy of Poul-Henning's `4MB install' floppy for those of you stuck with 4MB machines. Usual caveats: This is very early 2.2 code and may cause system malfunction, blindness or sterility! Use at your own risk! No warrantee expressed or implied! New Things In This Release (that I can remember) post 2.1R: ----------------------------------------------------------- 4MB installation experimental IPX support experimental PCCARD support Drivers for ARNET (now Digiboard) Sync 570/i card Drivers for 3COM 3C590/3C595 card Revamped Adaptec 2940 support Worm driver support for some CDR drives VM system performance enhancements Various userland updates, kernel fixes, etc. Good luck! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 04:55:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id EAA27375 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:55:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from iaehv.IAEhv.nl (root@iaehv.IAEhv.nl [192.87.208.2]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA27369 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 04:55:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by iaehv.IAEhv.nl (8.6.12/1.63) id NAA25678; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:55:51 +0100 From: guido@IAEhv.nl (Guido van Rooij) Message-Id: <199602031255.NAA25678@iaehv.IAEhv.nl> X-Disclaimer: iaehv.nl is a public access UNIX system and cannot be held responsible for the opinions of its individual users. Subject: gated config question To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:55:50 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Okay all you gated hackers. I am trying to solve a problem. I have a machine with multiple interfaces. Underneath is the for my problme relevant part of gated.conf. ed3 is configured with adres 194.151.68.1, netmask 0xfffffe00. What I like is that gated sends out rip packets containing entries for both 194.151.68.0 and 194.151.69.0, both metric 1. In the setup below, it will only do that for 194.151.68.0. I know that this is normal because it wants to send out the routing entry on the gateway itself, and the netmaks gets lost. I would like to think that it should be possible to configure gated in such a way that you just enter these two routing entries in the static section. However, then nothing is send. How can this be done? -Guido # our interfaces should never be timed out interfaces { interface 192.168.1.2 passive ; interface ed3 passive ; } ; # configuration for rip protocols rip yes { # tell the world about our routes broadcast; # metric for non rip routes defaultmetric 1; # which routing info do we accept interface 192.168.1.2 ripout version 1; interface ed3 ripin ripout version 1; } ; static { default gateway 192.168.1.3 retain; 131.155 gateway 192.168.1.1 retain; # TUE 194.151.68 mask 255.255.254.0 gateway 194.151.68.1 retain; } ; # what should we export export proto rip interface 192.168.1.2 { proto direct { 194.151.68.0 mask 255.255.254.0 metric 1; #194.151.69.0 mask 255.255.255.0 refine metric 1; #194.151.69.0 metric 1; } ; proto static { #194.151.68.0 metric 2; #194.151.69.0 metric 2; } ; } ; From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 05:19:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA28354 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (omega.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.51]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA28337 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from prospero.physik.fu-berlin.de (lislip.physik.fu-berlin.de [130.133.3.126]) by omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA19322 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:19:43 +0100 (MET) Received: (from news@localhost) by prospero (8.6.12/8.6.12) id JAA02784; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:10:14 +0100 To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Path: graichen From: graichen@omega.physik.fu-berlin.de (Thomas Graichen) Newsgroups: local.freebsd-hackers Subject: Re: libF77 & libl77 Date: 3 Feb 1996 08:10:13 GMT Organization: his FreeBSD box :-) Lines: 18 Distribution: local Message-ID: <4ev595$1eb@prospero.physik.fu-berlin.de> References: <199602030122.MAA10524@godzilla.zeta.org.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.physik.fu-berlin.de X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans (bde@zeta.org.au) wrote: : >Is there some reason that /usr/src/lib/libF77 and /usr/src/lib/libI77 : >are not in the /usr/src/lib/Makefile, and thus never installed : >on the system? : Yes, they're built and installed from /usr/src/lib/libf2c. They should : have been organized better. but this way (libF77 and libI77) it is easier to keep 'em up to date with the original sources (from ftp.netlib.org) t -- thomas graichen graichen@mail.physik.fu-berlin.de graichen@FreeBSD.org perfection is reached, not when there is no longer anything to add, but when there is no longer anything to take away antoine de saint-exupery From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 05:26:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA28776 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA28769 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:26:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA15664; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:22:51 +1100 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:22:51 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602031322.AAA15664@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, j@uriah.heep.sax.de Subject: Re: And the winner is! Cc: karl@mcs.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab >> > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right >> >> That's still kind of rough, yes. >Not as smooth as `disksetup' (presumably -- i've never been using it), >but you've got it more convenient, without vamping a disktab entry. >In -current, you could do: > disklabel -Brw sdX auto > disklabel -e sdX >If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the >single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality >into -stable. I still object :-). `auto' only works for dedicated disks, and labelling those is easy using standard features: disklabel /dev/rsdX | sed -e s'/interleave: 0$/interleave: 1/' \ -e s'/rpm: 0$/rpm: 3600/' \ -e s'/^[1-7] partitions/8 partitions/' | disklabel -B -r -R sdX /dev/stdin disklabel -e sdX The sed command and `auto' do the same fixups for the incomplete label on /dev/rsdX. Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 05:48:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA29761 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:48:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from godzilla.zeta.org.au (godzilla.zeta.org.au [203.2.228.19]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA29751 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:48:19 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bde@localhost) by godzilla.zeta.org.au (8.6.9/8.6.9) id AAA16215; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:41:27 +1100 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:41:27 +1100 From: Bruce Evans Message-Id: <199602031341.AAA16215@godzilla.zeta.org.au> To: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, phk@critter.tfs.com Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >> > All this is a little hypothetical just now, as I'm concentrating on the >> > watchdog card. If it works out, it should do the basics, and with a TXCO >> > on it should give a good, stable frequency reference. Accessing it >> > won't be fast, sorry Bruce 8( >... >Bruce has the 8254 data, I suspect that you would as well. Yes, you can >latch everything inside it all at once. Actually I don't have the data sheet and haven't seen it for a few years. I seem to remember that there is an 8254 feature (automatic latch?) that we should be using. >Would having two counters (32 bits) be enough? The tap points on the Can you easily latch multiple 8254 counters at once in hardware? I think it would work to put them at the same address for writes and at different addresses for reads. Is the slowness only the usual slowness for multiple 8-bit reads? Bruce From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 05:54:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id FAA29933 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:54:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from grapenuts.bellcore.com (grapenuts.bellcore.com [192.4.4.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA29928 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 05:54:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grapenuts.bellcore.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA01781; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:53:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031353.IAA01781@grapenuts.bellcore.com> X-Authentication-Warning: grapenuts.bellcore.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Andrew Heybey To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:19:32 -0600. Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 08:53:48 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >>On Fri, 2 Feb 1996 10:19:32 -0600 (CST), "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" said: >> > a) What code base would you use? Pointers to supfiles please; >> > I have the one for -STABLE, but I bet its out of date. I >> >> To be honest, I'd probably start supping the CVS tree to some >> local location on your site and just check a -stable tree out of >> it for your builds. This gives you the highest degree of >> flexibility should something pop up in -current which turns out >> to be the answer to some prayer and you need to do a little >> mucking around with CVS in order to merge it across into your >> -stable tree. karl> Ok. >> > b) How to handle replication? I know how to do this on BSDI, > >> but on FreeBSD it has always eluded me. Presume that there >> >> You want to be able to stamp out multiple machines from one >> build, or..? I'm afraid that "replication" is a little ambiguous >> in this context. Due to a number of historical bogons in our >> build process, I still recommend that each and every machine have >> its own copy of /usr/src, the problems with shared obj links >> otherwise becoming a real pain. karl> No, we want to be able to have a "code server" which can load, karl> and keep updated, multiple machines. That is, when I have karl> system #15 to load, I want to plug in the Ethernet, point the karl> new box at the server, and say "go fetch your load, kid". karl> Also, the ability to somehow have this update process karl> automated (so that I only have to make a code change on *ONE* karl> machine) would be nice. karl> I don't care about /usr/src; the production machines don't karl> have to have the storage, or the ability, to customize things karl> *for themselves only*. There are a couple of files that don't karl> get screwed with (obviously -- they are different, such as the karl> stuff in /etc) but the rest should be able to be kept current karl> without hassling over doing it by hand. >> > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > >> by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right >> >> That's still kind of rough, yes. karl> I understand it can be done with /stand/sysinstall. True? >> > d) How about stability in general? PCI Ethernet card drivers? >> > PCI disk drivers? NFS stability problems (we used to have > >> those up the wazoo). Support for >64M without kludges? Any > >> surprises I should expect (and benefits of current .vs. > >> stable, etc)? >> >> Stability in general is good. PCI ethernet drivers good. PCI >> disk drivers, getting better. NFS stability problems are bad. >> Most people trying to seriously beat up on NFS find that it beats >> back. A lack of NFS experts with spare time is a big problem for >> us right now or we'd fix it. karl> Ok. >> If I'm going to have an unsupported OS, damnit, then I'm going to KNOW its >> unsupported and not pay for support! I don't mind doing my own qualification >> One thing I might suggest is hiring in some local talent who >> finds the idea of hacking on free software cool, for god knows >> whatever reason, and can provide you with at least one source of >> immediate recourse in case of failure. It all depends on whether >> or not the numbers add up for you, of course. >> >> Jordan karl> I think its cool myself, and don't mind as long as I know what karl> I'm getting into. Its when I get surprised and *don't* know karl> how much fat is in the fryer that I get a little ticked off. karl> -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest karl> Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 karl> monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | karl> 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 karl> 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ karl> ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL karl> Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 06:15:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id GAA01573 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 06:15:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from grapenuts.bellcore.com (grapenuts.bellcore.com [192.4.4.35]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA01567 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 06:15:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by grapenuts.bellcore.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA01796; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:14:57 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031414.JAA01796@grapenuts.bellcore.com> X-Authentication-Warning: grapenuts.bellcore.com: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol From: Andrew Heybey To: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" cc: jkh@time.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard), hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: And the winner is! In-reply-to: Your message of Fri, 02 Feb 1996 10:19:32 -0600. Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 09:14:56 -0500 Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk [Please excuse the preceding fumble-fingered screw-up sent to the list. C-c C-c (mh-send-letter) is very close to C-x C-x on the keyboard.] karl> No, we want to be able to have a "code server" which can load, karl> and keep updated, multiple machines. That is, when I have karl> system #15 to load, I want to plug in the Ethernet, point the karl> new box at the server, and say "go fetch your load, kid". karl> Also, the ability to somehow have this update process karl> automated (so that I only have to make a code change on *ONE* karl> machine) would be nice. When I was running 1.1.5.1, I had something like this set up using a program called reconcile (ftp://mercury.lcs.mit.edu/pub/shep/reconcile-*). Reconcile is sort of like rdist in reverse (client pull instead of server push) only better (IMHO). I hacked the boot floppy to (after newfs'ing the disk(s)) ask for enough information to configure the network interface then NFS mount the server and build the file system. [BTW I can't take any credit for this idea--Tim Shepard wrote reconcile and he and several others set up a network full of uVaxen this way at LCS.] This is all broken now that I'm running 2.something, but I'll be getting a few new machines soon so I might be motivated to resurrect it. If anyone is interested (and if I actually do it) I would be willing to give away the reconcile config files and boot floppy hacks that I do. andrew From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:30:56 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05165 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:30:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.gtn.com (news1.gtn.com [192.109.159.3]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA05157 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by news1.gtn.com (8.7.2/8.7.2) id OAA25211; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:15:17 +0100 (MET) Received: from knobel.gun.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by knobel.gun.de (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA01645; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:02:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:02:52 +0100 (MET) From: Andreas Klemm To: ports@freebsd.org cc: Ollivier Robert , asami@cs.berkeley.edu, jkh@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, root@cerebro.inka.de Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 In-Reply-To: <199602022217.OAA12331@puli.cisco.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Feb 1996, Paul Traina wrote: > I don't think the -D__386BSD__ is correct either. > > This is the current #defines: > > /usr/libexec/cpp -lang-c -v -undef -D__GNUC__=2 -D__GNUC_MINOR__=6 -Dunix -D > >>i386 -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix__ -D__i386__ -D__FreeBSD__=2 -D__unix -D__i386 > >>-Asystem(unix) -Asystem(FreeBSD) -Acpu(i386) -Amachine(i386) foo.c /tmp/cc023 > >>835.i Ok, maybe one should remove __386BSD__ and not include bsd4_4.... but add -D__FreeBSD__=2 Would that be okay ? May I say that officially to the pgcc developers ?! Currently Marc Lehmann and I have a nice e-mail contact. I also suggested to him, to include a note into their Web pages to point to the FreeBSD ports collection instead of offering pgcc binaries for FreeBSD... I explained to him the ports collection mechanism, he didn't know him (as many people), but I think, he will like it ;-)) He already told me, he wants to include it into the Web page, today I sent to him two URL's... One pointing to the tgz archive file, another to the entry point of the ports collection, where people can get information, why they only got a few files ;-))) Andreas // -- andreas@knobel.gun.de /\/\___ Wiechers & Partner Datentechnik GmbH Andreas Klemm ___/\/\/ - Support Unix - aklemm@wup.de - \/ ftp://sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/system/Printing/aps-491.tgz apsfilter - magic print filter 4lpd >>> knobel is powered by FreeBSD <<< From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:34:22 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05435 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05420 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA03145 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:12 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA26605 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:11 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id QAA11280 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:09:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602031509.QAA11280@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:09:02 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602031322.AAA15664@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 4, 96 00:22:51 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Bruce Evans wrote: > > >If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the > >single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality > >into -stable. > > I still object :-). I knew. :-) (That's the single objection mentioned.) > `auto' only works for dedicated disks, and labelling > those is easy using standard features: Yes, but auto is easier. It has no further ill side-effects except stealing a single string from the virtually unlimited namespace of disktab(5). > The sed command and `auto' do the same fixups for the incomplete label > on /dev/rsdX. What about the chances to make it also work for sliced disks? -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:34:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05476 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05429 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA03141 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:10 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA26603 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:09 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id QAA11248 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:04:56 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602031504.QAA11248@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:04:55 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <4940.823350967@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 3, 96 04:36:07 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > o For some reason which I'm still tracking down, /usr/libexec/telnetd and > possibly other binaries are missing from the bin distribution. telnet and libtelnet are also missing, as has been pointed out by a user of my private 2.2-SNAP CDROM. > Temporary workaround: Always extract the DES distribution to get > a working telnetd. International users will have to wait for a 2.2 DES > dist or try the 2.1 RELEASE version. I could upload the DES distribution from my private SNAP. Where should it go to? Another workaround: install the sources, and recompile the missing telnet stuff. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:34:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA05537 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA05518 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:34:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id QAA03163; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id QAA26613; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:34:17 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id QAA11526; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:24:43 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602031524.QAA11526@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: Q: why install -d dir missing ? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:24:42 +0100 (MET) Cc: haury@sagem.fr Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602021918.UAA10893@sagem.fr> from "haury@sagem.fr" at Feb 2, 96 08:18:38 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As haury@sagem.fr wrote: > > I am wondering why the well known option '-d' is missing in current install > program. Since I am a newbie in FreeBSD, I hope it's not an old war :-) It is. :-) Directories are to be created via the /etc/mtrees/* templates, not via some hack in install(1). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:40:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA06027 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:40:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from cls.net (freeside.cls.de [192.129.50.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06009 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail.cls.net (Smail3.1.29.1) from allegro.lemis.de (192.109.197.134) with smtp id ; Sat, 3 Feb 96 15:39 GMT From: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Organisation: LEMIS, Schellnhausen 2, 36325 Feldatal, Germany Phone: +49-6637-919123 Fax: +49-6637-919122 Reply-To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) Received: (grog@localhost) by allegro.lemis.de (8.6.9/8.6.9) id QAA15034; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:40:05 +0100 Message-Id: <199602031540.QAA15034@allegro.lemis.de> Subject: Again: the final version of the installation book To: jack@cdrom.com (Jack Velte), jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan Hubbard), ellen@cdrom.com, dahanaya@chaph.usc.edu, gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au, gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:40:04 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), doc@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Documenters) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Well, I don't know how many times I've said it already, but here we go again: the *very final* version of the FreeBSD book, now called "Installing and Running FreeBSD", is on freefall.FreeBSD.org:/incoming/shortbook.tar.gz. There are two files, both PostScript: the Table of Contents and preface, and the rest. If you're interested in reviewing it, please do it *now*. I will be doing my own final review in the next 24 hours, and after that I won't have any time to change anything, so please get your gripes and things in now. As before, one thing you shouldn't gripe about too much is the pagination: I need to fine tune it every time changes come in, and I can't be bothered. I'll take care of that this time tomorrow. But anything else is fair game. I don't promise I'll change it ("what, no networking? That's 50% of the questions people ask" won't make me put in another 300 pages by tomorrow evening :-), but I'll at least give every comment serious consideration. Enjoy! Greg From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 07:49:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id HAA06507 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:49:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitten.mcs.com (Kitten.mcs.com [192.160.127.90]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06502 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 07:49:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.mcs.com (root@Venus.mcs.com [192.160.127.92]) by kitten.mcs.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA25850; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:49:14 -0600 Received: by venus.mcs.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.5) id ; Sat, 3 Feb 96 09:48 CST Message-Id: Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:48:53 -0600 (CST) From: "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602030805.JAA08481@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 3, 96 09:05:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > > > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right > > > > That's still kind of rough, yes. > > Not as smooth as `disksetup' (presumably -- i've never been using it), > but you've got it more convenient, without vamping a disktab entry. > In -current, you could do: > > disklabel -Brw sdX auto > disklabel -e sdX > > If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the > single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality > into -stable. That would solve my disk problem COMPLETELY. Please make sure to update the docs though :-) -- -- Karl Denninger (karl@MCS.Net)| MCSNet - The Finest Internet Connectivity Modem: [+1 312 248-0900] | T1 from $600 monthly; speeds to DS-3 available Voice: [+1 312 803-MCS1] | 21 Chicagoland POPs, ISDN, 28.8, much more Fax: [+1 312 248-9865] | Email to "info@mcs.net" WWW: http://www.mcs.net/ ISDN - Get it here TODAY! | Home of Chicago's only FULL Clarinet feed! From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 08:20:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA08262 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:20:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA08204 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:19:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25163 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:19:56 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:19:56 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031619.LAA25163@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> > May be one of those single board computers (aka SBC) built >> > around a 286 will do the trick? 2ser+1par+memory+cpu etc. >> > are all on an ISA card and you can plug one or more of these >> > in an ISA `passive backplane'. If you are in the SF Bay > >> I can think of better and cheaper ways to make smoke with >> my computer. Stuffing alfoil into the ISA slots comes to mind. > >Care to elaborate? Perhaps you are generalizing your own bad >experience a bit too far? There are all sorts of ISA cards >with memory,cpu,IO etc. -- nothing magic in that. > >> IIRC, these guys are F1-based. Try getting P&A on an F1 these >> days. > >No, {handy,mini}board use E9 which has 2K eeprom. > >> Seriously, you're wandering into gross overkill here. > >The point was that if people just want some sort of watchdog >gizmo, starting from existing kits/boards is a lot faster. >Pie-in-the-sky boards are fun to dream about but they never >get built. Oh..they get built, but by the time they work everyone wants something different! db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 08:35:51 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA09542 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:35:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA09537 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:35:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25194; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:34:41 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:34:41 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031634.LAA25194@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Narvi From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > >On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > >> Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only >> motherboard? >> >> 6 (or more) PCI slots >> No frigging ISA slots. >> No frigging IDE interface. >> Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) >> NCR53C8xx SCSI on board >> DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board >> Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller >> FIFO'ed floppy controller >> S3964 PCI video(?) >> bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) >> OpenFirmware boot ROMs >> Some good clock hardware >> Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. >> Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) > >You'll also need a good bios for allowing to select if you want to boot >from fd/hdd/network. And perhaps also some basic diagnostics (so if you >think you have bad RAM you won't have to boot dos to run the test :) > >Anyway - just build the board and I warrant I'm going to buy some! you forgot the on-board watchdog timer :-) This is a good antithesis of why PCs are so popular. One mans "dream machine" is another mans boat anchor. I wouldnt take this machine for free. "wouldn't use dumb sync uarts" "can't plug in my internal modem" "have to pay too much for a cd-rom drive" "too expensive to throw away next month when the new (whatever they are) processors become available" on of the reasons all-in-ones disappear so quickly. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 08:43:48 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA09932 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:43:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA09927 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:43:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25204 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:43:44 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:43:44 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031643.LAA25204@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >As Curt Mayer wrote: >> >> >> hey, guys. here's a solution that smells much more like unix. >> have a daemon running on each node that is prone to hangup. >> this process wakes up every once in a while and does a system checkup. >> (stats things, pings places, looks at kernel statistics). when it see >> that things are ok, it sends a datagram to a particular machine, >> >> this node, the monitor, has a table in memory of all recent datagrams >> from each node. when a node hasn't been heard from for a while, it >> tells a BSR x10 controller to cycle power on the hung node. DUH. > >Idea stolen from Linux: create a /dev/watchdog for this purpose. Once >it is held open by a process, the kernel resets the CPU if it doesn't >get a response on a device after a certain time. > >The idea behind this is that most of the hanging systems have still a >running async portion of the kernel, i.e. things like interrupt >handling continue to work, but the process context switching hangs for >some reason (e.g. SCSI bus hangs etc.). The chances are good that the >kernel could still kill itself. > >Not ideal, but also no cost. Unfortunately, in LINUX most of the hangs seem to be due to interrupt hangs. Its also nice to be able to customize the criteria for reboot. For example we had someone who had a HDD controller that failed occationally (didnt actually hang the system)...so they did sanity tests on it and rebooted when it failed (which is really a demand reset rather than a watchdog function). We've found that most of the people that want WDTs have machines that don't reboot reliably for one reason or another or require a hard reset, particularly those with remote systems and they dont want to take the chance on a soft reset. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 08:48:17 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id IAA10267 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:48:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10262 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 08:48:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA25217 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:48:14 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:48:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031648.LAA25217@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: List Duplicates Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I think others (might) agree on this: Theres really no need to copy someone whos clearly on the list when sending a message to the list. I think that we all could do without the duplicates. db ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 09:36:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA14668 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:36:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from haldjas.folklore.ee (Haldjas.folklore.ee [193.40.6.121]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14651 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:36:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from narvi@localhost) by haldjas.folklore.ee (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA16321; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:38:26 +0200 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:38:25 +0200 (EET) From: Narvi To: dennis cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-Reply-To: <199602031634.LAA25194@etinc.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, dennis wrote: > > > > > >On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, Terry Lambert wrote: > > > >> Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only > >> motherboard? > >> > >> 6 (or more) PCI slots > >> No frigging ISA slots. > >> No frigging IDE interface. > >> Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) > >> NCR53C8xx SCSI on board > >> DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board > >> Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller > >> FIFO'ed floppy controller > >> S3964 PCI video(?) > >> bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) > >> OpenFirmware boot ROMs > >> Some good clock hardware > >> Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. > >> Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) > > > >You'll also need a good bios for allowing to select if you want to boot > >from fd/hdd/network. And perhaps also some basic diagnostics (so if you > >think you have bad RAM you won't have to boot dos to run the test :) > > > >Anyway - just build the board and I warrant I'm going to buy some! > > you forgot the on-board watchdog timer :-) Won't be too bad :) > > This is a good antithesis of why PCs are so popular. One mans "dream > machine" is another mans boat anchor. I wouldnt take this machine > for free. Why? Never heard of an american buisnessmen refusing something for free... :) > "wouldn't use dumb sync uarts" > "can't plug in my internal modem" > "have to pay too much for a cd-rom drive" Just buy a PCI IDE card... Get a daughter PCI board with 6 IDE slots :) > "too expensive to throw away next month when the new (whatever they are) > processors > become available" > on of the reasons all-in-ones disappear so quickly. Why should you throw away as newer processors become available? The board isn't that bad... Besides - I'm in no position of upgrading all my computers every some months and there are more like me than alike. There still are big manufacturers who make motherboards in which nothing more than P5-100 fits. For me, the only problem is - what to do with *six* free PCI slots.... (OK - can think of how to fill three - but the others?) > dennis Sander. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 09:53:12 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id JAA15964 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:53:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from belize.ucs.indiana.edu (belize.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.10.64]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA15943 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 09:53:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu (ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu [129.79.181.44]) by belize.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3/1.10IUPO) with ESMTP id MAA25901; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:51:02 -0500 (EST) Received: (from jfieber@localhost) by ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu (8.7/8.7/regexp($Revision: 1.3 $) id MAA08603; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:58 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:52:53 -0500 (EST) From: John Fieber X-Sender: jfieber@ophelia.ucs.indiana.edu To: Greg Lehey cc: Jack Velte , Jordan Hubbard , ellen@cdrom.com, dahanaya@chaph.usc.edu, gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au, gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com, FreeBSD Hackers , FreeBSD Documenters Subject: Re: Again: the final version of the installation book In-Reply-To: <199602031540.QAA15034@allegro.lemis.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Greg Lehey wrote: > doing my own final review in the next 24 hours, and after that I won't > have any time to change anything, so please get your gripes and things > in now. [from a copy I picked up a week or two ago...] I think the table of DOS commands and their unix equivalents makes a few far fetched comparisons. For example, append == ln. They are two very different commands. Assign is a little closer to ln in concept, but how does mount relate to assign? Ctty == getty? I think ctty == COMCONSOLE in the kernel config would be much more appropriate. Other than that, the book looks quite good. -john From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 10:10:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17004 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:10:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA16991 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id NAA00426; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:09:54 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:09:53 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: sup is broken? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming convinced it is not possible. The most recent attempt of a few minutes ago illustrates the main problem: I start the sup process and it successfully updates up to a point where we see something like: SUP Updated directory secure SUP Upgrade of src-secure-stable completed at Feb 3 12:58:59 1996 SUP Created directory sup/src-secure for sup/src-secure/when.stable SUP Upgrade of src-share-stable at Sat Feb 3 12:59:00 1996 SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 16381 on freefall.FreeBSD.org at 12:59:00 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Fileserver is currently busy SUP: Will retry in 85 seconds SUP Fileserver 9.13 (4.3 BSD) 16508 on freefall.FreeBSD.org at 13:00:26 SUP Fileserver supports compression. SUP Fileserver is currently busy SUP: Will retry in 189 seconds During that little window in time between the point when: SUP Upgrade of src-secure-stable completed at Feb 3 12:58:59 1996 and SUP Upgrade of src-share-stable at Sat Feb 3 12:59:00 1996 the sup server became busy. From recent experience this will continue to back-off in retry time, effectively hanging it for the next several hours. Alas.. if only it would have hung in there for another couple minutes.. 8 minutes later and the back-off time is now 528 seconds. I think I looked everywhere for a list of alternate servers but could not find it. Is there any way around this? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. regards kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 10:18:44 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA17513 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:18:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA17497 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from dialup-usr11.etinc.com (dialup-usr11.etinc.com [204.141.95.132]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25391; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:18:09 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:18:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031818.NAA25391@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Peter Berger From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >On Thu, 1 Feb 1996, dennis wrote: > >> Peter Burger writes.... > >That's "Berger". >> This is wrong on all 3 counts. Experience tells otherwise. A similarly > >First off, you never address the support question. Second, my >"experience" only consists of helping support a network of 2 Cisco >7500's, 2 AGS+'s, a 7000, routing a T3 to the global Internet and >multiple Ethernets, FDDI rings, and metropolitan T3s and T1s, as well as >supporting a couple of unix routers. So perhaps you're right, and i'm >just haven't had enough "hands on" experience to be able to understand >these things the way you, with your oh so much more complex network, can. > Of course, the difference is that you're comparing Apples and Oranges and I was talking about Apples to Apples. There is clearly no comparision between 7000s and PCs....and I never meant to imply that there was. When you say "Ciscos", I supposed that you were talking about desktop routers (and maybe low density 4000 series machines), since that is the real comparison to PCs (if you say "a mercedes vs lexus", I assume that you're not talking about mercedes commercial trucks vs a Lexus sport coupe). Dollar for dollar, a pentium solution is as good or better (depending on your needs). Putting a Web Server on a box may not make sense for a hub node, but for a leaf it provides a more powerful and functional solution than you can get with a "router+server" As for support, for 300 a year you get pretty good support, but it takes too long to get a really technical question answered... most of the best support is from other users' experience...just like with a unix solution. Reference the several hundred messages (maybe thousands) a day on support lists. If I can call an 800 number and get my question answered...why would i turn to a list? >> compared to a (say) Pentium solution. With a PC, basically, you get >> flexibility and power for a much lower cost. For Example, you can't add a >> 100Mbs port to a Cisco >> for $134! I'm sorry for the confusion. I'll rephrase.... You can't put a 100Mbs adapter into a 25XX for $134., and if you could i woudnt want to. > >That's right; and you can't add a 100Mbp/s port to a PC that will >actually route that many packets for $134, or for any price. Reference > the very interesting TCP performance tests at Usenix which showed that at >>Ethernet MTUs, Pentium boxes running TCP/IP over the loopback interface >could only reach about 40Mb/s (this number went up if you increased the >MTU ... And what was the 40Mbs MTU? I think that some of the people on this list would argue that the term "a Pentium" is fairly meaningless in a vacuum....the hardware and software you run on it can make a big performance difference. Its also virtually impossible to test the routing function with a loopback interface, since in order to process the data (with a ping, or FTP transfer or even raw socket ) it would require system resources and degrade the performance. My guess is that...like most tests I've seen.... these are arguably meaningless. ie..I've got a Pentium 100 running freebsd 2.1R thats faster through the loopback interface than the same MB and kernel on a Pentium 120. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous PC Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 10:36:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18721 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:36:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from brasil.moneng.mei.com (brasil.moneng.mei.com [151.186.109.160]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18714 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:36:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jgreco@localhost) by brasil.moneng.mei.com (8.7.Beta.1/8.7.Beta.1) id MAA13405; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:35:22 -0600 From: Joe Greco Message-Id: <199602031835.MAA13405@brasil.moneng.mei.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: fenner@parc.xerox.com (Bill Fenner) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:35:21 -0600 (CST) Cc: jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com, msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: <96Feb2.154908pst.177478@crevenia.parc.xerox.com> from "Bill Fenner" at Feb 2, 96 03:48:59 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > In message <199602021854.MAA11875@brasil.moneng.mei.com>you write: > >> If you're going to decode the I/O's already, don't bother with the UART. > > > >Your intent is to emulate the UART? I'm sorry, I'm not THAT good at digital > >logic design :-) I wouldn't know where to start. > > *Software*, Joe! We're hackers, right? Just decode the PC's I/O space in a > creative way to the microprocessor, and let the software on the uP handle the > rest =) I'm hacker enough to know that I wouldn't have a clue about how to do it :-) ... JG From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 10:37:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA18821 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:37:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from labinfo.iet.unipi.it (labinfo.iet.unipi.it [131.114.9.5]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18815 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 10:37:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (luigi@localhost) by labinfo.iet.unipi.it (8.6.5/8.6.5) id TAA17717 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:38:02 +0100 From: Luigi Rizzo Message-Id: <199602031838.TAA17717@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> Subject: FAT creation code ? To: hackers@freebsd.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:38:01 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Is anyone aware of C source that allows you to create an MSDOS (FAT) partition on a disk ? mformat prevents you to work on C: and in any case only works for 12-bit fat entries and small clusters. Reason why I am asking, if anyone is interested: we'd like to be able to clean up the machines in our lab from either FreeBSD or a boot eprom. We are going to use a modified FreeBSD boot eprom, with entries which allow to choose which boot method to use. If the FAT-creation code is sufficiently small, then it can fit on the eprom as well, together with the code to write a boot sector on the disk. Luigi ==================================================================== Luigi Rizzo Dip. di Ingegneria dell'Informazione email: luigi@iet.unipi.it Universita' di Pisa tel: +39-50-568533 via Diotisalvi 2, 56126 PISA (Italy) fax: +39-50-568522 http://www.iet.unipi.it/~luigi/ ==================================================================== From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 11:06:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA20658 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from eel.dataplex.net (EEL.DATAPLEX.NET [199.183.109.245]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20640 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:06:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from [199.183.109.242] (cod [199.183.109.242]) by eel.dataplex.net (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA27306; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:25 -0600 X-Sender: rkw@shark.dataplex.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:06:27 -0600 To: Kim Culhan From: Richard Wackerbarth Subject: Re: sup is broken? Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming >convinced it is not possible. >the sup server became busy. From recent experience this will continue >to back-off in retry time, effectively hanging it for the next several >hours. >Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup. sup REQUIRES that the server be available to you when you request it. ctm can be used as either a "pull" or, preferably, a "push" technology. You can obtain the changes via ftp from our ftp servers or, if you attempt to update frequently (I'd say weekly or more often), you can have the updates automatically mailed to you on a daily basis. Since the daily changes are a file that is often less than 1k bytes, you can see that the traffic is much less. ---- Richard Wackerbarth rkw@dataplex.net From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 11:16:15 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA21662 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from moonpie.w8hd.org (moonpie.w8hd.org [198.252.159.14]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21656 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kimc@localhost) by moonpie.w8hd.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA00544; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:03 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:03 -0500 (EST) From: Kim Culhan To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Richard Wackerbarth wrote: > >I have been trying for many hours to sup -stable and am becoming > >convinced it is not possible. > I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup. Where are the instructions located on how to setup ctm? kim -- kimc@w8hd.org From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 11:23:49 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA22367 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:23:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (root@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.10.161]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA22357 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:23:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (kenh@excalibur.cmf.nrl.navy.mil [134.207.6.17]) by ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil (8.6.12/8.6.11) with ESMTP id OAA18412; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:22:49 -0500 Message-Id: <199602031922.OAA18412@ginger.cmf.nrl.navy.mil> To: Bakul Shah cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 02 Feb 1996 00:24:00 PST." <199602020824.AAA12804@netcom22.netcom.com> X-Face: "Evs"_GpJ]],xS)b$T2#V&{KfP_i2`TlPrY$Iv9+TQ!6+`~+l)#7I)0xr1>4hfd{#0B4 WIn3jU;bql;{2Uq%zw5bF4?%F&&j8@KaT?#vBGk}u07<+6/`.F-3_GA@6Bq5gN9\+s;_d gD\SW #]iN_U0 KUmOR.P<|um5yPkEpSD@*e` Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:23:29 -0500 From: Ken Hornstein Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk >> IIRC, these guys are F1-based. Try getting P&A on an F1 these >> days. > >No, {handy,mini}board use E9 which has 2K eeprom. The MIT miniboard uses an E2, which has a 2K eeprom. An E9 has 12k of eprom. Both are near impossible to get anymore (try finding a windowed version of the E9). The Handyboard uses A1, which is slightly easier to get (but _any_ 6811 is tough to get unless you order in lots of 10,000). I've talked to distributors who have people waiting from last April for HC11 orders. Getting back to the original subject - there might be some intersting things you could do with a SBC on an ISA board. But using an HC11 probably isn't the right way to go, unless you want to wait a year for the parts to come in :-( --Ken From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 11:40:58 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id LAA23695 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:40:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA23686 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 11:40:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA11382; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:40:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:40:22 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... In order to debug a panic problem with a -stable kernel, I've been asked by a gentleman in Germany to send him the values of "scbus" & "scbus->adapter_link" from before and after the function scsi_attachdevs() is called. Now, I don't have a clue on how to do this using DDB, and since there is about 5-6 hours difference between here and Germany (ie. I'm probably in bed while he's awake, or at least not around), the back and forth exchange on what I need to do in DDB is going to be slow :( So, I ask here...how do I use DDB? I've read through the man page for DDB, and got absolutely no where with it. The panic occurs right after the probe to the ncr0 device, and I'm not getting a core dump that I can use gdb against, so am stuck with only being able to use DDB. From the man page, I had assumed that doing something like: print $scbus would work, at least giving me the value of it *at* panic time, but I get something like "unknown variable/symbol", so that's wrong. On top of that, I somehow need to step back to get the value before the call to scsi_attachdevs(), but...'step -1' doesn't do that either :( If found the GDB examples in the FAQ (or handbook) to be enough to get me stepping through the kernel and getting the data that was requested, but have yet to find a similar example for DDB. So...help? How do I get the information that is being requested of me? Or is it not possible to get this without getting a core dump first? Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 12:35:04 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA27640 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:35:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA27635 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:35:01 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA04265; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:32:52 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602032032.NAA04265@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Access Linux ext2fs from BSD's UFS To: vladimir@cfd1.eng.tau.ac.il (Denis Kopylenko) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:32:52 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Denis Kopylenko" at Feb 3, 96 02:04:34 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Do we talk about the same version of FreeBSD? I mean FreeBSD 2.1.0 > and as far as I see it has not any ext2fs drivers. > > If there is such driver for FreeBSD, might be I could patch my kernel? > If you know where to get a patch, please point me. Look in the "experimental" section on your CDROM or on the FTP site. It is an LKM. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 12:42:39 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA28198 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:42:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from rover.village.org (rover.village.org [204.144.255.49]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28192 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 12:42:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by rover.village.org (8.6.11/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA12992; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:42:14 -0700 Message-Id: <199602032042.NAA12992@rover.village.org> To: Andreas Klemm Subject: Re: Another Pentium gcc patch, -D__FreeBSD__=2 -Dbsd4_4 Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-reply-to: Your message of Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:02:52 +0100 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:42:14 -0700 From: Warner Losh Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk : Ok, maybe one should remove __386BSD__ and not include bsd4_4.... : but add -D__FreeBSD__=2 : : Would that be okay ? May I say that officially to the pgcc : developers ?! That would make it consistant with the GCC as shipped by FSF and as shipped by FreeBSD in 2.0R (and 2.1R). I think that to be a good thing. Warner From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:10:28 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA00270 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:10:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA00255 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:10:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA09976 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:10:09 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA01844 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:10:08 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id UAA16250 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:52:45 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602031952.UAA16250@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:52:45 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Karl Denninger, MCSNet" at Feb 3, 96 09:48:53 am X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Karl Denninger, MCSNet wrote: > > If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the > > single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality > > into -stable. > > That would solve my disk problem COMPLETELY. Please make sure to update the > docs though :-) An undocumented feature is a bug. (Not by me...) It's in the man page (unlike with Digital Unix' ``rzXX'' magic type, that is really undocumented). -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:27:02 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA01777 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA01745 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:26:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA25459; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:26:41 -0800 To: grog@lemis.de (Greg Lehey) cc: jack@cdrom.com (Jack Velte), jkh@FreeBSD.org (Jordan Hubbard), ellen@cdrom.com, dahanaya@chaph.usc.edu, gdr@wcs.uq.edu.au, gpalmer@westhill.cdrom.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Hackers), doc@FreeBSD.org (FreeBSD Documenters) Subject: Re: Again: the final version of the installation book In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 16:40:04 +0100." <199602031540.QAA15034@allegro.lemis.de> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:26:41 -0800 Message-ID: <25457.823382801@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > Well, I don't know how many times I've said it already, but here we go > again: the *very final* version of the FreeBSD book, now called > "Installing and Running FreeBSD", is on > freefall.FreeBSD.org:/incoming/shortbook.tar.gz. There are two files, Downloading now.. BTW, if you would be so kind as to start specifying such paths in standard URL form, e.g. ftp://freefall.FreeBSD.org/incoming/shortbook.tar.gz instead of freefall.FreeBSD.org:/incoming/shortbook.tar.gz, I could just click on them in your email messages.. :-) I am downloading it now and will read it now. Thanks! Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:30:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02202 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:30:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02192 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:30:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04330; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:27:07 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602032127.OAA04330@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:27:07 -0700 (MST) Cc: narvi@haldjas.folklore.ee, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <199602031634.LAA25194@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Feb 3, 96 11:34:41 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > >> Actually, if you are in a board-building craze, how about a PCI-only > >> motherboard? > >> > >> 6 (or more) PCI slots > >> No frigging ISA slots. > >> No frigging IDE interface. > >> Zilog UARTs, not Intel (sync serial, X.25, Appletalk, HDLC) > >> NCR53C8xx SCSI on board > >> DEC21040 or AM79C970 ethernet on board > >> Motorola/Eagle MPC105 PCO Bridge/Memory controller > >> FIFO'ed floppy controller > >> S3964 PCI video(?) > >> bidirectional stereo DSP (Gravis?) > >> OpenFirmware boot ROMs > >> Some good clock hardware > >> Seperate keyboard and PS/2 mouse interface. > >> Maybe a parallel port (IEEE 1284 bidirectional/level 3) > > > >You'll also need a good bios for allowing to select if you want to boot > >from fd/hdd/network. And perhaps also some basic diagnostics (so if you > >think you have bad RAM you won't have to boot dos to run the test :) > > > >Anyway - just build the board and I warrant I'm going to buy some! > > you forgot the on-board watchdog timer :-) No I didn't. IMO, you could put it in a riser socket. Like the original clock "chips" that plugged into the processor socket instead of the processor and provided a socket on top for the processor; added 1/8th of an inch to processor elevation. > This is a good antithesis of why PCs are so popular. One mans "dream > machine" is another mans boat anchor. I wouldnt take this machine > for free. You are silly. If it's free, never look a gift-horse in the mouth. > "wouldn't use dumb sync uarts" Well, spec a different UART, then. Sun hasn't done too bad with Zilog parts. It's the applicability of the port that I'm interested in: I want a small number of external boxes for any particular sync or async communications setup. If you have another chipset in mind, feel free to recommend it. It needs to do: o Regular serial o Timeout interrupt on partially full FIFO's so mice don't hang with only 3 characters in the buffer while the chip waits for 5/13 more. o Sync serial o X.25 (like Sun) o Appletalk (like Sun) o HDLC (like Sun) o ISDN (like your boards o Cheap commodity parts o Non-divider based clock The problem with Intel is you can't use the FIFO's if you have a mouse and you can't tell you have a mouse unless you ask the user and the user shouldn't have to answer stupid questions for stupid hardware when good hardware will work instead. The Zilog parts will also do MIDI with 6 tiny parts that can go into the cable hood on the computer side of things; all they need is the current loop conversion, since they don't have the stupid Intel clock divider, they have a real clock source. Appletalk? Another cable. X.25? Another cable. > "can't plug in my internal modem" You can if it's a PCI modem. Or if you put in a PCI PCMCIA card and plug in a PCMCIA modem. Or (GASP!) use a Motorolla DSP and one of the Motorolla programs for download to turn the DSP into an internal modem. ********************************************** ********************************************** ** ISA MUST DIE. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. ** ********************************************** ********************************************** Use an external modem anyway. I don't know one internal modem that correctly floats DTR, DCD, RTS, and CTS simultaneously, except the real old Hayes and US Robotices before they went to UART emulators. Internal modems suck. > "have to pay too much for a cd-rom drive" Maybe you are unaware that "IDE CDROMs" are just SCSI CDROMS with a IDE->SCSI interface. They puch SCSI commands over that interface. I was unable to find any price differential at "dirt cheap drives" for IDE vs. SCSI CDROM. Some drives, like the new Panasonic, only come in SCSI anyway. Call me when you find an IDE CDROM writer... 8-). IDE is one of those heinous bogosities, like ISA, IDE must die; unlike ISA, this is negotiable, since you can always (stupidly) plug in a PCI IDE card. > "too expensive to throw away next month when the new (whatever > they are) processors become available" So: 1) Daughter-card the processor logic, like Compaq or DEC does. Do it right, and you can use DEC modules, like their Alpha (Alpha and PPC and P7: the reason for the OpenFirmware interpreted BIOS & POST -- can't run x86 BIOS code on a real computer). 2) Drop the on board audio and video interfaces OR drop three of the slots and the PCI-PCI bridge logic. 3) Sell enough to get to the economy of scale price point. I could see two or three models anyway, one with 3 slots so it could avoid the PCI bridge to drive the other 3 slots, and one that was a "server only" configuration -- probably run a serial console on it: no video, no sound, no keyboard. I wouldn't recommend dropping the networking, since a $39 difference in Q1000 costing isn't worth not including something like that. > on of the reasons all-in-ones disappear so quickly. Yeah. Like those "Aptiva's" that "aren't selling". And those "soundbook" laptops that "no one is buying" because of their all-in-one. And all those Dell and USA-Flex and Comtrade and Gateway and Midwest Micro boxes that come pre-loaded with sound, video, and CDROM. Haven't seen a Mac in years (whatever happened to ol' Apple? Oh yeah -- they're shipping PCI-only PowerMac's these days). 8-) 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:33:10 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02527 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02519 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:33:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04350; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:30:58 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602032130.OAA04350@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards To: gerg@stallion.oz.au (Greg Ungerer) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:30:58 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, gerg@stallion.oz.au, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <9602031423.aa23223@cluster.stallion.oz.au> from "Greg Ungerer" at Feb 3, 96 02:23:55 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > > What are the distribution terms on this image? > > These images are "Copyright Stallion Technologies", but are freely > redistributable. Stallion provides these images "as is", and disclaims any > warranty, or fitness for any particular purpose. Absolutely no support is > supplied by Stallion when using these images outside if officially supported > Stallion product. > > So, anybody is free to use them and redistribute them, but no support is > provided by Stallion. Hot damn. This is the right answer. 8-). > > Alternately, is it in a standard location as a seperate file on the > > disks that come with the boards so an install script for FreeBSD can > > be written and thrown into "ports"? > > Yep. All supported operating system drivers for these boards from Stallion > have these images on them. But, it would be easier if they where just in > the FreeBSD distribution already :-) Don't need the "alternately" if the image can go on the CDROM and the FTP site without problems. 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:38:20 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA02975 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:38:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02966 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:38:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04374; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:36:35 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602032136.OAA04374@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:36:35 -0700 (MST) Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, karl@mcs.com In-Reply-To: <199602030805.JAA08481@uriah.heep.sax.de> from "J Wunsch" at Feb 3, 96 09:05:43 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk > > > and the companion "I want to add a disk and not do a disktab > > > by hand -- since I have a ZBR disk and don't KNOW the right > > > > That's still kind of rough, yes. > > Not as smooth as `disksetup' (presumably -- i've never been using it), > but you've got it more convenient, without vamping a disktab entry. > In -current, you could do: > > disklabel -Brw sdX auto > disklabel -e sdX > > If people find it useful (and there are no further objections than the > single one i've seen by now), i could also move this functionality > into -stable. What is the limiting factor on simply coding all the disk drivers to return either a fictitious (but always usable) geometry, or at a minimum, a total number of sectors for a device? It must be possible to return this information via ioctl(), and then allow the user to slice it up how they want. In keeping with the devfs discussion on the -current list, the total number of sectors ought to be available from both phical devices (this case) and logical devices (the slice/partition management case). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:39:37 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03123 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:39:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from zap.io.org (root@zap.io.org [198.133.36.81]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03105 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:39:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from taob@localhost) by zap.io.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA06708; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:38:01 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:38:01 -0500 (EST) From: Brian Tao To: David Greenman cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-Reply-To: <199601291004.CAA29539@Root.COM> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, David Greenman wrote: > > It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, > and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. What are the symptoms of it "not working"? TCP extensions are enabled on all the FreeBSD servers here (currently two shell servers, a Web server and the FTP/IRC server) and I haven't noticed anything unusual connecting to them through a 28.8k dialup line on a Livingston PM-2e terminal server. What should I be looking out for? -- Brian Tao (BT300, taob@io.org) Systems Administrator, Internex Online Inc. "Though this be madness, yet there is method in't" From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:46:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03924 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:46:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA03914 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:46:38 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id OAA04394; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:44:43 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602032144.OAA04394@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: List Duplicates To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:44:43 -0700 (MST) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602031648.LAA25217@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Feb 3, 96 11:48:14 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think others (might) agree on this: > > Theres really no need to copy someone whos clearly on the list when > sending a message to the list. I think that we all could do without the > duplicates. The list handler needs to write a reply-to that only includes the list and rewrite the cc line to remove people on the list (potentially removing the cc line entirely). Most of us are using "elm" and most of us handle list responses, especially to -questions, where the poster is likely to not be a subscriber, with elm's "g" -- "group reply" -- command. Before you suggest that all responses to -questions postings should be to the poster and not the list, I must point out that it is very useful from anarchival and design standapoint to have both the answers and the questions in the list archive, and not just the questions. To a lesser extent, these arguments apply to -hackers and -current as well. Consider it part of the FreeBSD Documentation Project. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:51:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA04363 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04350 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:51:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA10849; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:51:37 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA02093; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:51:37 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA21349; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:29:30 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602032129.WAA21349@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:29:29 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Feb 3, 96 02:40:22 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk As Marc G. Fournier wrote: > So, I ask here...how do I use DDB? I've read through the man > page for DDB, and got absolutely no where with it. Print out the man page, you'll need it. > being able to use DDB. From the man page, I had assumed that doing something > like: > > print $scbus x/x scbus,10 However p $eax when you wanna know the value of %eax. DDB doesn't have type definitions, it can only handle basic types. > On top of that, I somehow need to step back to get the value > before the call to scsi_attachdevs(), but...'step -1' doesn't do that > either :( Naturally. How should stepping backwards work? You need to set a breakpoint earlier. Remember the -d boot flag (RTFM boot(8)). > If found the GDB examples in the FAQ (or handbook) to be enough to > get me stepping through the kernel and getting the data that was requested, > but have yet to find a similar example for DDB. Look into the handbook again, i once wrote an introduction to using DDB, it is in the section about ``Kernel debugging''. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 13:51:54 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA04365 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:51:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA04351 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 13:51:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id WAA10853; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:51:39 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id WAA02094; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:51:38 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA21451; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:31:39 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602032131.WAA21451@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: FAT creation code ? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:31:38 +0100 (MET) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602031838.TAA17717@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Feb 3, 96 07:38:01 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Luigi Rizzo wrote: > > Is anyone aware of C source that allows you to create an MSDOS (FAT) > partition on a disk ? mformat prevents you to work on C: and in any > case only works for 12-bit fat entries and small clusters. Have a look at mkdosfs(8) in -current. I have no idea whether it's extensible enough for your purpose. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 14:16:13 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA06741 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from Root.COM (implode.Root.COM [198.145.90.17]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA06719 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by Root.COM (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id OAA10880; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:16:13 -0800 Message-Id: <199602032216.OAA10880@Root.COM> X-Authentication-Warning: implode.Root.COM: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol To: Brian Tao cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Why RFC1323 is disabled on freefall and freebsd.cdrom.com ? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 16:38:01 EST." From: David Greenman Reply-To: davidg@Root.COM Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 14:16:13 -0800 Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk >On Mon, 29 Jan 1996, David Greenman wrote: >> >> It is disabled on both machines because they are public FTP/WWW servers, >> and RFC1323 (and other TCP extensions) don't work for all people. > > What are the symptoms of it "not working"? TCP extensions are >enabled on all the FreeBSD servers here (currently two shell servers, >a Web server and the FTP/IRC server) and I haven't noticed anything >unusual connecting to them through a 28.8k dialup line on a Livingston >PM-2e terminal server. What should I be looking out for? 1) Get an Annex terminal server 2) notice it doesn't work with FreeBSD<-Annex->FreeBSD -DG David Greenman Core Team/Principal Architect, The FreeBSD Project From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 14:31:34 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA07955 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:31:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from eac.iafrica.com (slipper101137.iafrica.com [196.7.101.137]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07950 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:31:30 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rnordier@localhost) by eac.iafrica.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA02072; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:30:12 +0200 From: Robert Nordier Message-Id: <199602032230.AAA02072@eac.iafrica.com> Subject: Re: FAT creation code ? To: luigi@labinfo.iet.unipi.it (Luigi Rizzo) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 00:30:10 +0200 (SAT) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602031838.TAA17717@labinfo.iet.unipi.it> from "Luigi Rizzo" at Feb 3, 96 07:38:01 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24 ME8a] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 1996, Luigi Rizzo wrote: > Is anyone aware of C source that allows you to create an MSDOS (FAT) > partition on a disk ? mformat prevents you to work on C: and in any > case only works for 12-bit fat entries and small clusters. > > Reason why I am asking, if anyone is interested: we'd like to be > able to clean up the machines in our lab from either FreeBSD or a > boot eprom. We are going to use a modified FreeBSD boot eprom, > with entries which allow to choose which boot method to use. If > the FAT-creation code is sufficiently small, then it can fit on > the eprom as well, together with the code to write a boot sector > on the disk. I'm in the process of revising the msdosfs, and it shouldn't be much trouble to put something together for you, if you can't find anything suitable. Actually did all this in 8088 assembler once, years ago. :-( -- Robert Nordier From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 14:48:31 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id OAA09062 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:48:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09057 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 14:48:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA00577; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:47:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:47:21 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: Joerg Wunsch cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? In-Reply-To: <199602032129.WAA21349@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Okay, I delved into DDB, and came out unscathed, I think...well, at least I seem to have more info and knowledge then I started, which is a good thing :) Using sd(0,a)/kernel -d to get into DDB (several times), I performed the following: b ncr_attach + 0x192 (according to handbook, this should work) - From Handbook: - Simple expressions are allowed, for example: function-name + 0x103. - When I tried, it always ran through until it hit the panic *shrug* c x/x scbus,10 -> Symbol not found Restarted from the top: b ncr_attach c Breakpoint at _ncr_attach: pushl %ebp x/x scbus,10 -> Symbol not found b scsi_attachdevs x/x scbus,10 -> Symbol again not found So, looking at the ncr.c code: #if (__FreeBSD__ >= 2) struct scsibus_data *scbus; #endif And the fact that I'm using gcc 2.7.2, could this be the problem? Could I not have __FreeBSD__ set to 2 properly, and therefore its not pulling this in? With this in mind, I'm going to try to recompile the kernel using gcc 2.6.3 that came with the OS, and see if that helps. If this doesn't look like what the problem is... ...help :( Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 15:30:32 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10650 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:30:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10645 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:30:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26902; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:30:12 -0800 To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 16:04:55 +0100." <199602031504.QAA11248@uriah.heep.sax.de> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 15:30:12 -0800 Message-ID: <26899.823390212@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I could upload the DES distribution from my private SNAP. Where > should it go to? ftp.internat.freebsd.org, someplace? Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 15:33:09 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA10918 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10913 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:33:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26934; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:32:49 -0800 To: Kim Culhan cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:09:53 EST." Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 15:32:48 -0800 Message-ID: <26932.823390368@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I think I looked everywhere for a list of alternate servers but could > not find it. % cat > hosts < /dev/null 2>&1 ; then echo $target.$domain next=2 while [ $next -ne 0 ]; do if host $target$next.$domain > /dev/null 2>&1 ; then echo $target$next.$domain next=`expr $next + 1` else success=NO next=0 fi done fi exit 0 EOF % chmod 755 hosts % ./hosts top sup Looking for sup servers in the freebsd.org domain. sup.freebsd.org sup2.freebsd.org sup3.freebsd.org sup4.freebsd.org Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 15:35:23 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id PAA11049 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from time.cdrom.com (time.cdrom.com [192.216.222.226]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA11024 Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by time.cdrom.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26949; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 15:35:01 -0800 To: Richard Wackerbarth cc: Kim Culhan , hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: sup is broken? In-reply-to: Your message of "Sat, 03 Feb 1996 13:06:27 CST." Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 15:35:00 -0800 Message-ID: <26947.823390500@time.cdrom.com> From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > I would recommend that EVERYONE interested in -stable use ctm rather than sup That's one option, or as I also told Kim - PLEASE DON'T USE SUP.FREEBSD.ORG TO UPDATE YOURSELF! I've certainly covered this in enough discussion that anyone still using sup.freebsd.org is either masochistic or blind. We have 3 perfectly good alternate sup servers to use, and I really do wish more people would use them! :-) Jordan From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 16:10:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id QAA12860 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:10:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12854 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 16:10:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA25981; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:10:15 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:10:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199602040010.TAA25981@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Terry Lambert From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry Lambert writes... >********************************************** >********************************************** >** ISA MUST DIE. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. ** >********************************************** >********************************************** >IDE is one of those heinous bogosities, like ISA, > >IDE must die; unlike ISA, this is negotiable, since you can always >(stupidly) plug in a PCI IDE card. > > the only possible explanation is that your are 'outta your mind'.... you and the guys in their offices on 6th avenue should get together...their the ones who think that ISDN should be all there is and get rid of POTs altogether.....except whos gonna tell the old lady in tennis shoes that her phone costs $300. instead of $11.? Your not the average user....the vast majority of users don need PCI (except for video to run windows, dont need (or want) SCSI or most of the other stuff you're putting on your dream board. Some food for thought...... You guys have been tossing around ideas about a "watchdog timer" board for the past week or so.......just remember that you wouldn't be having the conversation at all if you had to build a PCI card to implement it. dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 17:36:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16728 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:36:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from phaeton.artisoft.com (phaeton.Artisoft.COM [198.17.250.211]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16721 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:36:11 -0800 (PST) Received: (from terry@localhost) by phaeton.artisoft.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA04844; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:33:39 -0700 From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <199602040133.SAA04844@phaeton.artisoft.com> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:33:39 -0700 (MST) Cc: terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <199602040010.TAA25981@etinc.com> from "dennis" at Feb 3, 96 07:10:15 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk > >********************************************** > >********************************************** > >** ISA MUST DIE. THIS IS NON-NEGOTIABLE. ** > >********************************************** > >********************************************** > > >IDE is one of those heinous bogosities, like ISA, > > > >IDE must die; unlike ISA, this is negotiable, since you can always > >(stupidly) plug in a PCI IDE card. > > > the only possible explanation is that your are 'outta your mind'.... > > > you and the guys in their offices on 6th avenue should get together...their > the ones who think that ISDN should be all there is and get rid of POTs > altogether.....except whos gonna tell the old lady in tennis shoes that her > phone costs $300. instead of $11.? Probably the idiot who insists she own the ISDN->analog conversion equipment instead of putting it in the little green box that here and the rest of her neighbors connect into. Personally, I think ISDN is a scam, not that this has *anything* to do with whether or not it costs more in your opinion to leave ISA and IDE out... Since when did it cost more to leave chips *off* a motherboard? That claim is plain idiotic. > Your not the average user....the vast majority of users don need PCI (except > for video to run windows, dont need (or want) SCSI or most of the other stuff > you're putting on your dream board. 1) They need a disk interface. They can either have IDE (and pay in terms of performance and a limit on the disk space and a royalty to OnTrack systems for the ir boot manager and...), OR they can get SCSI. And then the won't need a new card for their CDROM, or one for a second disk, or one for a scanner. 2) The customer differences between PCI and ISA is: ISA PCI PlugNPlay no(a) YES Fast no YES 16 bit limit yes NO Passive probe no YES Runs out of IRQs yes NO(b) Lots of broken cards yes NO(c) (a) There are con artists who will try to sell you PNP ISA... report these people to the BBB. It's not PNP if it only works with some cards and not the on-board hardware. (b) PCI allows IRQ sharing. (c) What idiot wants broken cards? The average user could care less if they had PCI or ISA in their system until it came time to upgrade from Windows 3.11 to Windows95 or Windows95 to WindowsNT (at which point they then care a lot). It's idiotic to pay for things you'll never use. The "average" user never opens his box to install anything he didn't buy with the machine in the package offered by the dealer anyway, so he doesn't give a *damn* what bus he has, as long as it works. PCI works with a *hell* of a lot less trouble than ISA. Next you will be arguing that it is a waste of money to put 16 bit slots in a machine; the "average user" can get by with 8 bit slots. You and the guys in their offices on 6th avenue should get together... they're the ones who think that a CDROM and a sound card makes a machine "multimedia"... > Some food for thought...... > > You guys have been tossing around ideas about a "watchdog timer" board > for the past week or so.......just remember that you wouldn't be having > the conversation at all if you had to build a PCI card to implement it. Why; are PCI edge card connectors more expensive? What about the riser socket? That doesn't care what kind of bus you have in the machine, since it goes in the CPU socket. Or is it that PCI has the reset circuitly designe *correctly* (unlike ISA, PCI is speced -- it's not a PCI box if the reset circuitry isn't correct). Or is it that a countdown reset timer is an optionally speced item for a PCI controller chip? (see PCI 2.1 specification). 8-). Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 17:39:38 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA16821 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:39:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA16814 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:39:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA15003 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:39:32 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA04339 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:39:32 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id WAA23224 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:54:09 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602032154.WAA23224@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: And the winner is! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:54:08 +0100 (MET) Reply-To: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de (Joerg Wunsch) In-Reply-To: <199602032136.OAA04374@phaeton.artisoft.com> from "Terry Lambert" at Feb 3, 96 02:36:35 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Terry Lambert wrote: > > > disklabel -Brw sdX auto > > disklabel -e sdX > What is the limiting factor on simply coding all the disk drivers to > return either a fictitious (but always usable) geometry, or at a > minimum, a total number of sectors for a device? That's exactly what i'm using in the ``auto'' case. (Or what else did you expect? It's still only water to cook with...) > In keeping with the devfs discussion on the -current list, the total > number of sectors ought to be available from both phical devices (this > case) and logical devices (the slice/partition management case). The slices don't (yet) return this information, that's why it's currently limited to dedicated disks. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 17:47:05 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17046 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:47:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from tiny.mcs.usu.edu (tiny.mcs.usu.edu [129.123.15.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17036 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:47:00 -0800 (PST) Received: (from kurto@localhost) by tiny.mcs.usu.edu (8.6.11/8.6.9) id SAA00886 for freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:46:55 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:46:55 -0700 From: Kurt Olsen Message-Id: <199602040146.SAA00886@tiny.mcs.usu.edu> To: freebsd-hackers@freefall.freebsd.org Subject: Booting SCSI drive Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Hi all, Just installed FreeBSD onto a scsi drive for the first time and am having a bit of trouble getting it to boot. The drive is a 1.3gb conner. It has 2 slices, 0 is 60 mb and 1 is 1.1 gb. When it boots up it comes up with the boot selector but won't allow the (only available) choice of F1. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Kurt Olsen kurto@tiny.mcs.usu.edu From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 17:51:03 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id RAA17206 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17188 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 17:51:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id CAA15185 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:50:58 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id CAA04462 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:50:58 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id CAA14125 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:47:27 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602040147.CAA14125@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:47:27 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <26899.823390212@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 3, 96 03:30:12 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I could upload the DES distribution from my private SNAP. Where > > should it go to? > > ftp.internat.freebsd.org, someplace? The line to .za used to be weak, but i'll give it a try. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 18:21:26 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA18473 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:21:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18458 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id DAA15913 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:21:18 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id DAA04644 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:21:17 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id DAA14870 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:00:11 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602040200.DAA14870@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:00:10 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Feb 3, 96 05:47:21 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Marc G. Fournier wrote: > Okay, I delved into DDB, and came out unscathed, I think...well, at least > I seem to have more info and knowledge then I started, which is a good > thing :) :) > Using sd(0,a)/kernel -d to get into DDB (several times), I performed the > following: > > b ncr_attach + 0x192 (according to handbook, this should work) > - From Handbook: > - Simple expressions are allowed, for example: function-name + 0x103. > - When I tried, it always ran through until it hit the panic *shrug* It works for me, though i'm not sure about the early boot stages. I think interrupts are still disabled there, and yup, i remember that i've seen some anomalies as well. I've only rarely had to use boot -d. > c > x/x scbus,10 -> Symbol not found > So, looking at the ncr.c code: > > #if (__FreeBSD__ >= 2) > struct scsibus_data *scbus; > #endif Eeek. This is a local symbol inside ncr_attach(). The kernel's symbol table is limited to global (including static) symbols however. You need to figure out the stack frame offset of scbus, and have a look there. Or, you temporarily globalize the variable. -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 18:21:27 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA18480 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:21:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de [141.76.1.11]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18461 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:21:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from sax.sax.de by irz301.inf.tu-dresden.de (8.6.12/8.6.12-s1) with ESMTP id DAA15921 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:21:21 +0100 Received: by sax.sax.de (8.6.11/8.6.12-s1) with UUCP id DAA04648 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 03:21:21 +0100 Received: (from j@localhost) by uriah.heep.sax.de (8.7.3/8.6.9) id CAA14550 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:54:03 +0100 (MET) From: J Wunsch Message-Id: <199602040154.CAA14550@uriah.heep.sax.de> Subject: Re: 2.2-960130-SNAP on ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org (FreeBSD hackers) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 02:54:03 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <26899.823390212@time.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Feb 3, 96 03:30:12 pm X-Phone: +49-351-2012 669 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk As Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: > > > I could upload the DES distribution from my private SNAP. Where > > should it go to? > > ftp.internat.freebsd.org, someplace? Ick, i cannot even traceroute the host right now. :-(( -- cheers, J"org joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de -- http://www.sax.de/~joerg/ -- NIC: JW11-RIPE Never trust an operating system you don't have sources for. ;-) From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 18:27:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA18762 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:27:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from tombstone.sunrem.com (tombstone.sunrem.com [199.104.90.54]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18757 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:27:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from brandon@localhost) by tombstone.sunrem.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA15626; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:24:45 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:24:44 -0700 (MST) From: Brandon Gillespie To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk subscribe From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 18:53:40 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id SAA20107 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:53:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA20097 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 18:53:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id VAA00488; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:53:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 21:53:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: J Wunsch cc: FreeBSD hackers Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? In-Reply-To: <199602040200.DAA14870@uriah.heep.sax.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk On Sun, 4 Feb 1996, J Wunsch wrote: > > #if (__FreeBSD__ >= 2) > > struct scsibus_data *scbus; > > #endif > > Eeek. This is a local symbol inside ncr_attach(). The kernel's > symbol table is limited to global (including static) symbols however. > You need to figure out the stack frame offset of scbus, and have a > look there. Or, you temporarily globalize the variable. > See my recent posting to stable/current...but recompiling the kernel with 2.6.3 instead of 2.7.2 fixed it, I'm up now with the NCR controller, and can now proceed to build a new machine using the old 1542 on a 386 :) Next, put -current on my production machine *muhahahha* Thanks again for the help with DDB, it was invaluable :) Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 19:27:55 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21459 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21450 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:27:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA02922; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:49:34 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602040219.MAA02922@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:49:33 +1030 (CST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Feb 3, 96 02:40:22 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Marc G. Fournier stands accused of saying: > > > Hi... > > In order to debug a panic problem with a -stable kernel, I've been > asked by a gentleman in Germany to send him the values of "scbus" & > "scbus->adapter_link" from before and after the function scsi_attachdevs() > is called. Use printf(), you can obviously rebuild kernels, so just add some trace writes in the appropriate places. > Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 19:27:59 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21478 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:27:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA21466 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:27:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id MAA02867; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:13:00 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602040143.MAA02867@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) To: bde@zeta.org.au (Bruce Evans) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 12:12:59 +1030 (CST) Cc: msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au, phk@critter.tfs.com, hackers@FreeBSD.org, jgreco@brasil.moneng.mei.com In-Reply-To: <199602031341.AAA16215@godzilla.zeta.org.au> from "Bruce Evans" at Feb 4, 96 00:41:27 am MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.org Precedence: bulk Bruce Evans stands accused of saying: > > Actually I don't have the data sheet and haven't seen it for a few years. > I seem to remember that there is an 8254 feature (automatic latch?) that > we should be using. Ah, sorry. Yes, you can latch any selection of the counters and then read them back at leisture. > Can you easily latch multiple 8254 counters at once in hardware? I think > it would work to put them at the same address for writes and at different > addresses for reads. Um, remapping the addresses for the 8254 would be very messy. Basically you have a control register and three data registers, one for each counter. To perform a readback of, say the first two counters, you would write an appropriate Counter Latch command to the command register, and then read back LSB and MSB from each of the counter data registers. > Is the slowness only the usual slowness for multiple 8-bit reads? Yes. I can't vouch for the 8254 at bus speeds of more than 10MHz though, but on a standard 8MHz bus it should be fine. > Bruce -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 19:28:29 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21590 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from rocky.sri.MT.net (rocky.sri.MT.net [204.182.243.10]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21579 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:28:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from nate@localhost) by rocky.sri.MT.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA28248; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:29:23 -0700 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:29:23 -0700 From: Nate Williams Message-Id: <199602040329.UAA28248@rocky.sri.MT.net> To: "Marc G. Fournier" Cc: Joerg Wunsch , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? In-Reply-To: References: <199602032129.WAA21349@uriah.heep.sax.de> Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk > And the fact that I'm using gcc 2.7.2, could this be the problem? > Could I not have __FreeBSD__ set to 2 properly, and therefore its not > pulling this in? Augh. Can you try compile a kernel with 2.6.3 and see if that kernel has the same problems? I have a very *strong* suspicion that you are seeing either a compiler mis-configuration bug or a compiler bug, of which both are causes by not using the stock compiler. > With this in mind, I'm going to try to recompile the kernel using > gcc 2.6.3 that came with the OS, and see if that helps. If this doesn't > look like what the problem is... Please do. I suspect that's the only reason for your problem, since there are many of us using the same controller w/out any problems. Nate From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 19:32:14 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id TAA21821 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:32:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from etinc.com (et-gw.etinc.com [165.254.13.209]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21816 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 19:32:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from ppp-082.etinc.com (ppp-082.etinc.com [204.141.95.142]) by etinc.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA26253 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:32:10 -0500 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 22:32:10 -0500 Message-Id: <199602040332.WAA26253@etinc.com> X-Sender: dennis@etinc.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: hackers@freebsd.org From: dennis@etinc.com (dennis) Subject: Re: Watchdog timers (was: Re: Multi-Port Async Cards) Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Terry L. daydreams..... >2) The customer differences between PCI and ISA is: > > ISA PCI > PlugNPlay no(a) YES > Fast no YES > 16 bit limit yes NO > Passive probe no YES > Runs out of IRQs yes NO(b) > Lots of broken cards yes NO(c) > > (a) There are con artists who will try to sell you PNP ISA... > report these people to the BBB. It's not PNP if it only > works with some cards and not the on-board hardware. > (b) PCI allows IRQ sharing. > (c) What idiot wants broken cards? > > The average user could care less if they had PCI or ISA in > their system until it came time to upgrade from Windows 3.11 > to Windows95 or Windows95 to WindowsNT (at which point they > then care a lot). > >It's idiotic to pay for things you'll never use. The "average" user >never opens his box to install anything he didn't buy with the machine >in the package offered by the dealer anyway, so he doesn't give a >*damn* what bus he has, as long as it works. except that with your box the customer will be paying for lots of things they don't want or need. They'll have fewer choices without ISA or IDE and therefore everything will cost more. contrast J. Greco's argument last week for building "cheap" routers with $20 isa cards and small IDEs....cost is king. I have 35 machines in my lab and your MB is a replacement for exactly zero of them. >> Some food for thought...... >> >> You guys have been tossing around ideas about a "watchdog timer" board >> for the past week or so.......just remember that you wouldn't be having >> the conversation at all if you had to build a PCI card to implement it. > >Why; are PCI edge card connectors more expensive? > >What about the riser socket? That doesn't care what kind of bus you have >in the machine, since it goes in the CPU socket. > >Or is it that PCI has the reset circuitly designe *correctly* (unlike >ISA, PCI is speced -- it's not a PCI box if the reset circuitry isn't >correct). > >Or is it that a countdown reset timer is an optionally speced item >for a PCI controller chip? (see PCI 2.1 specification). 8-). I think that the PCI bus interface logic is a little more complex than ISA, but since you're clearly not objective on this issue I'll just let it go. Dennis ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Emerging Technologies, Inc. http://www.etinc.com Synchronous Communications Cards and Routers For Discriminating Tastes. 56k to T1 and beyond. Frame Relay, PPP, HDLC, and X.25 for BSD/OS, FreeBSD and LINUX From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 20:14:36 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA24000 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au [129.127.96.120]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23990 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:14:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from msmith@localhost by genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) id PAA03143; Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:00:04 +1030 From: Michael Smith Message-Id: <199602040430.PAA03143@genesis.atrad.adelaide.edu.au> Subject: Re: How to use DDB to debug a boottime panic? To: scrappy@ki.net (Marc G. Fournier) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 1996 15:00:04 +1030 (CST) Cc: joerg_wunsch@uriah.heep.sax.de, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: from "Marc G. Fournier" at Feb 3, 96 05:47:21 pm MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk Marc G. Fournier stands accused of saying: > And the fact that I'm using gcc 2.7.2, could this be the problem? > Could I not have __FreeBSD__ set to 2 properly, and therefore its not > pulling this in? Yetch. You recall that X doesn't work if built with 2.7.2, and you still want to trust it to build your kernel? Here, let me staple your tongue to this tree; you may enjoy that too 8) > Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting -- ]] Mike Smith, Software Engineer msmith@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] Genesis Software genesis@atrad.adelaide.edu.au [[ ]] High-speed data acquisition and (GSM mobile) 0411-222-496 [[ ]] realtime instrument control (ph/fax) +61-8-267-3039 [[ ]] "wherever you go, there you are" - Buckaroo Banzai [[ From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 3 20:55:18 1996 Return-Path: owner-hackers Received: (from root@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) id UAA25589 for hackers-outgoing; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:55:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from ki.net (root@ki.net [142.77.249.8]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA25584 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 20:55:09 -0800 (PST) Received: (from scrappy@localhost) by ki.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA01596; Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:55:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 1996 23:55:01 -0500 (EST) From: "Marc G. Fournier" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Problem with new drive (Connor CFP1060S 1.05GD 243F) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-hackers@freebsd.org Precedence: bulk Hi... I'm attempting to install a new Connor drive onto a -current system, and after four attempts using a boot disk (was trying to make it a "root" system disk), I think its time to ask for help. The system is only a 386DX40 w/8Meg of RAM, as I'm using a spare system to do the installation, so that the system its going into doesn't have too much downtime. I'm using an Adaptec 1542CF controller, and the drive is, as shown below, a Connor CFP1060S 1.05GD 243F. When booted from floppy, and trying to install that way, I get errors as follows on VTY2: sd0(aha0:0:0): NOT READY asc:4,0 sd0(aha0:0:0): Logical unit not ready, cause not reportable field replaceable unit: 15 Now, this might be what should be my first clue, in that the drive is bad? But I don't know 100%, so I booted up onto a -current system and figured I'd try and use disklabel and newfs the drive myself, then use the boot floppy to actually do the system installation. If I run 'disklabel sd0', I get the "allocation failed" errors that you see below...can someone explain that error? freebsd> dmesg | less aha0 at 0x330-0x333 irq 11 drq 5 on isa aha0 waiting for scsi devices to settle (aha0:0:0): "CONNER CFP1060S 1.05GB 243F" type 0 fixed SCSI 2 sd0(aha0:0:0): Direct-Access 1013MB (2074880 512 byte sectors) 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa ep0: aui/bnc[*BNC*] address 00:a0:24:0a:5a:fe irq 10 npx0 on motherboard npx0: 387 emulator devfs ready to run Device sd0a: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0a: allocation failed (E=17) Device sd0b: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0b: allocation failed (E=17) Device sd0c: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0c: allocation failed (E=17) Device sd0e: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0e: allocation failed (E=17) Device sd0f: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0f: allocation failed (E=17) Device sd0g: allocation failed (E=17) Device rsd0g: allocation failed (E=17) Now, a disklabel sd0 shows: # /dev/rsd0c: type: SCSI disk: sd0s1 label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 32 tracks/cylinder: 64 sectors/cylinder: 2048 cylinders: 1013 sectors/unit: 2074880 rpm: 3600 interleave: 1 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 8 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize bps/cpg] a: 61440 0 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 29) b: 204800 471040 swap # (Cyl. 230 - 329) c: 2074880 0 unused 0 0 # (Cyl. 0 - 1013*) d: 375040 1699840 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 830 - 1013*) e: 204800 61440 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 30 - 129) f: 204800 266240 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 130 - 229) g: 614400 675840 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 330 - 629) h: 409600 1290240 4.2BSD 0 0 0 # (Cyl. 630 - 829) Now, I can't think of anything except that the disk itself is bad (Connor was not *my* choice...just what was available *sigh* Prefer Seagate myself...) is this a proper conclusion, or is it just something I'm missing? Like...maybe jumper settings on the drive or something like that? Once more, I've been sold a manual-less drive, so if that is it...*sigh*...going to have to throttle someone :( I think I've put about as much detail into this one as I can, sorry if I missed something this time, but after 5 attempts, trying various thinks, I'm at a loss as to what to try next :( Thanks... Marc G. Fournier | POP Mail Telnet Acct DNS Hosting System | WWW Services Database Services | Knowledge, Administrator | | Information and scrappy@ki.net | WWW: http://www.ki.net | Communications, Inc