Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2000 13:02:41 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein <bright@wintelcom.net> To: Jonathon McKitrick <j_mckitrick@usa.net> Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD vs Linux comments Message-ID: <20000217130241.T3509@fw.wintelcom.net> In-Reply-To: <20000217182741.20025.qmail@nwcst267.netaddress.usa.net>; from j_mckitrick@usa.net on Thu, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:27:41AM -0700 References: <20000217182741.20025.qmail@nwcst267.netaddress.usa.net>
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* Jonathon McKitrick <j_mckitrick@usa.net> [000217 12:11] wrote: > After mentioning to some Linux 'hackers' (not the negative connotation) that i > run BSD, here was the response i got. Although this debate has been going on > for some time, these were some unique observations. I do not know how true > they are, however. Any thoughts?? > -------------------------------------------- > The matter of stability between Linux and FreeBSD (just to pick a BSD, it > could be Net BSDi or Open, ect..) has been going on for quite some time. For a > while it was all about the innate stability, then linux got better... BSD > stayed the same, basically unchanged since 4.4BSD Lite. > > Then the issue was IP Stacks, BSD has a more stable IP stack than the 2.0.* > series kernel. Then Linux got better, 2.2.* came out and the IP stack was > revamped and as stable as BSD's .... and BSD stayed the same, basically > unchanged since 4.4BSD Lite. > > Then there was the issue of 'innate' superiority of BSD over SysV unix. And > POSIX kinda kicked BSD's a$$, heh. And Linux ganked ideas from both sides, so > Linux changed and got better... and BSD stayed the same, basically unchanged > since 4.4BSD Lite. > > Now, from this brief and cursory overview what can we see, hmmmmm?? :) It > looks a lot like for people who think that computing reached its pinnacle of > perfection in the 80's and early 90's... BSD is the way to go... those of us > who are pushing for the latest Intel 1.5 Ghz box and want a volitile computing > environment should stick to Linux. > ------------------------------------------------------ > Obviously BSD *has* changed, but is there merit to any of these comments? then: * Brad Knowles <blk@skynet.be> [000217 12:45] wrote: > At 8:57 PM +0100 2000/2/17, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > > > Obviously BSD *has* changed, but is there merit to any of these comments? > > See some of Matt Dillon's comments regarding Linux. Our memory > management scheme beats the crap out of theirs, although their SMP is > ahead of ours. > > I think our network stack still beats theirs, but maybe 2.3 > really does fix some of those problems -- I wonder if the folks at > NFS, the authors of ntop, and Darren Reed (author of IP filter) have > any thoughts on that. > It's not just that, Linux doesn't really seem to "take the better" between the two roads, it basically takes whatever is easier and doesn't explain to thier users the deficiencies behind thier core subsystems like virtual memory and filesystems. Some really blatant things are missing in Linux, things like large file support, read/write atomicity, garantees that your files are actually there (*). (*) last i heard you have to walk '..' fsync'ing directories to make sure that a created file is actually there, as well as all the directories above it. BSD-FFS fsync actually does this automatically. Other major subsystems (such as thier TCP/IP stack) seem to be rewritten every six months, the immediate question that springs to mind is that since they've claimed to have the 'most stablest' and fastest TCP/IP implementation out there, then why do they ditch the whole thing and have to start from scratch every year? I was pretty much garanteed that the older stuff was the real deal. I think your friends are mistaken, BSD isn't stagnating in 80s/early 90s technology, BSD got it right in the early 90s. Linux is still playing catch-up and seemingly not doing a very good job at it. It's 2000, which subsystem in Linux is going to need to be gutted and redone from scratch this month? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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