From owner-freebsd-stable Wed Mar 22 5:14:26 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from nexus.plymovent.se (nexus.plymovent.se [212.247.77.253]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01F7137B5FC for ; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 05:14:22 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from thomas.uhrfelt@plymovent.se) Received: from tu ([192.168.1.21]) by nexus.plymovent.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA92389; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:55:44 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from thomas.uhrfelt@plymovent.se) Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:14:49 +0100 Message-ID: <01BF9408.FBFEEB20.thomas.uhrfelt@plymovent.se> From: Thomas Uhrfelt Reply-To: "thomas.uhrfelt@plymovent.se" To: "'Richard Wackerbarth'" Cc: "'freebsd-stable@freebsd.org'" Subject: SV: SV: Voxware is toast. Get used to it. (Re: Suggestions for impro Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 14:14:48 +0100 Organization: PlymoVent AB X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet-e-post/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Your statement is highly unfair, I have been swimming in this community > > pond for the last 18 months, and I never experienced the core as elitist or > > anything near that. > > Only 18 months! I've got FreeBSD systems still up that haven't been rebooted in > that period. Unfortunately, Moore's Law may be the uptime killer :-) > > Before you pass judgment, you should read some of the > "You F&*(&king idiot, RTFM!" replies that used to go out in response to > questions from new, would be, users. Sorry, I might have been a bit vague - I have looked at FreeBSD on and off for the last 3 or 4 years - but didnt put it in professional production usage until about 18 months - and then I started to leech on all the knowledge the community posses to solve some problems. And yes I know some answers in the past been more than a little unfriendly, but I don't blame them. I can take a GO RTFM answer - because I know I somtimes is a bit overly lazy and want a quick answer. But knowledge isnt like FreeBSD - it doesn't come for free. I am by you standards probably a new user, but I feel like this: - if I want to use "their" software to run "my" system .. it's up to me to make the best of it. Please don't take this as an OK to be rude or anything to new users, it's just that I feel like many "would be" users wants to much served on their plate - too fast. > > Not to mention that the FreeBSD support model is > > unparalleled. I get better support from the FreeBSD community that I do > > from $10K support contracts. > > I don't dispute this at all. It IS one of the real selling points. > > However, IMHO, FreeBSD has a "reputation" for being (to be polite) "elitist". > If the project ever wants to break out of the "developer's sandbox", it MUST > attract "mere users". I belive it has already broken out of the developers sandbox. And I don't think it's a wish from the current general FreeBSD population that we should attract more first-timers in masses. I could be wrong on this one I know .. but it's still my impression. > I think that many of the developers ignore the "tax" that they pay in answering > the same support questions over and over. This is very true indeed, but I don't want those changes in the system .. I want updates in the handbook and the FAQ. > The developers are so set in their > ways that they fail to accept the fact that "cosmetic" changes can have real > benefit. There is a pervasive "if it's not code, it's worthless" attitude. They > prefer to make others suffer so they can continue in their comfortable ruts. > That's why I call it a "developer's sandbox". This is actually one of the reasons I like FreeBSD so much (but it also annoys me sometimes ofcourse) .. I don't feel comfortable with a oneclick checkbox doing multiple operations. FreeBSD forces me to think each step though and this in the end will save me a lot of headaches. I am by no means a unix guru or anything - but for a guy coming from the win32 and OS2 camp .. it's certainly refreshing. Thomas Uhrfelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-stable" in the body of the message