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Date:      Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:40:25 -0600 (CST)
From:      "Valeri Galtsev" <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
To:        "blubee blubeeme" <gurenchan@gmail.com>
Cc:        galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu, "FreeBSD" <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: CUDA under FreeBSD
Message-ID:  <52115.10.150.179.124.1513276825.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>
In-Reply-To: <CALM2mEmqxCiHVDFXM3vT+E1aduZQk171ouM5QhrH5dgLXu_rqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <34331.107.77.207.211.1512384505.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <0545699d-9df7-ced2-4990-27e3ecb8e531@ShaneWare.Biz> <BN6PR2001MB17307310025DD6DE64A563A9803D0@BN6PR2001MB1730.namprd20.prod.outlook.com> <22836.128.135.52.6.1513189941.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <CALM2mEmqxCiHVDFXM3vT+E1aduZQk171ouM5QhrH5dgLXu_rqQ@mail.gmail.com>

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On Wed, December 13, 2017 8:43 pm, blubee blubeeme wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Valeri Galtsev
> <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, December 5, 2017 4:04 am, Carmel NY wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 2:53 AM, Shane Ambler stated:
>> >> On 04/12/2017 21:19, galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, December 4, 2017 4:24 am, Carmel NY wrote:
>> >> >> Out of morbid curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could tell me
>> the
>> real reason that Nvidia does not support CUDA under
>> >> >
>> >> > Arrogance would be my guess.
>> >> The morbid part is that they give us the linux libcuda, so we should
>> be
>> able to
>> >> run linux binaries that use cuda, just not native apps.
>> >> >> FreeBSD? Also, what are the realistic expectations for it getting
>> supported shortly?
>> >> >
>> >> > Zero is my estimate. The way to let one's steam about them is just
>> not
>> >> > to buy ther hardware. Their attitude to open sourse and
>> unwillingness
>> to disclose details of their hardware was always much worse than that
>> of their competitors (ATI/AMD, matrox...).
>> >> >
>> >> > This is just my opinion based on my subjective observations.
>> >
>> > Personally, I have always considered Nvidia products to be superior.
>>
>> Well, this is just your subjective opinion opposing my subjective
>> opinion.
>> With all due respect.
>>
>> I have seen nvidia chips giving artifacts (probably after mild overheat,
>> really just mild). I can not compare some product (to consider it
>> superior
>> to another) if I can not use that product fully under variety of systems
>> _I_ use. And the last is true about nvidia video chips. As opposed to
>> variety of their competitors.
>>
>> At some point Apple agreed with me (well, of course independent on me
>> made
>> up their opinion ;-). There were infamous MacBook Pro 15 inch made by
>> Apple somewhere around 2012. These contained discrete video chip by
>> NVIDIA
>> (in addition to integrated on intel CPU substrate... I'm lying, it was
>> inside CPU case, but etched on different substrate...). Anyway, there
>> was
>> some crap about that NVIDIA chip, so Apple didn't manage to make later
>> releases of MacOS work with later hardware and with that 2012 MacBook
>> Pro,
>> kernel just crashed inside NVIDIA kernel module. Apple even had (really
>> short lived) program of replacing that hardware, realizing that this is
>> just crap. Program closed very quickly, so only small portion of bad
>> hardware was actually replaced. My guess is: nvidia decided not to carry
>> their side of financial losses. After which Apple made good IMHO
>> decision,
>> and switched over to AMD (which are actually bought out by AMD well
>> known
>> ATI). Incidentally, way back someone made excellent argument when
>> comparing ATI with NVIDIA. Here it is: NVIDIA releases new drivers (or
>> driver updates) almost monthly. ATI takes about half a year to release
>> driver. From which the conclusion can be made (which I fully agree with)
>> that ATI thoroughly tests and debugs drivers before releasing them (and
>> doesn't need to fix crap in the driver soon after release). Not true
>> about
>> NVIDIA, whose drivers quite likely are much buggier.
>>
>> Anyway, just my observations, potentially a bit biased by the fact that
>> NVIDIA discloses much less about chip internals than, say, ATI (hence
>> the
>> ability or lack of such by open source driver developers to write decent
>> open source drivers.
>>
>> >
>> >> I'm sure on an episode of bsdnow, they mentioned asking an nvidia dev
>> at
>> >> one of the conferences and they said there shouldn't be any technical
>> reason, it just isn't enabled in the build and they would look into it.
>> Still hasn't helped any.
>> >
>>
>> Which just confirms that individual developer is likely less arrogant
>> than
>> a company as a whole.
>>
>> Well, all I said is just my subjective opinion based on my (by no means
>> thorough) observations.
>>
>> Valeri
>>
>> > Interesting. I was not aware of that. It would seem to me that there
>> should be more of an
>> > concerted effort to get this issue resolved.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Carmel
>> >
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> Valeri Galtsev
>> Sr System Administrator
>> Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
>> Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
>> University of Chicago
>> Phone: 773-702-4247
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> Here's a thorough overview of the history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA it's a
> three
> part but very good, for those who want to know.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6TiSdKT0A
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1bp9eSfwo
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-YM_3YBm0

The only trouble I have with your links above is: you have misrepresented
what they are. They are not overview of history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA as
you said. They are very nice NVIDIA commercials.

Valeri

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Valeri Galtsev
Sr System Administrator
Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
University of Chicago
Phone: 773-702-4247
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



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