From owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org Sun Dec 23 09:40:24 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9846A1353F1B for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146F46B67D for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id CBF481353F17; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:23 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: current@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A95D81353F15 for ; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from smtp-out-no.shaw.ca (smtp-out-no.shaw.ca [64.59.134.12]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0087D6B676; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from cy.schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from spqr.komquats.com ([70.67.125.17]) by shaw.ca with ESMTPA id b0F7g5h6nMRX3b0F8gRNtw; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 02:40:20 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=TL87tGta c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:117 a=VFtTW3WuZNDh6VkGe7fA3g==:17 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=2ur7OfE09M0A:10 a=YxBL1-UpAAAA:8 a=6I5d2MoRAAAA:8 a=SHxRiXDgrdPusbQNPIwA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=Ia-lj3WSrqcvXOmTRaiG:22 a=IjZwj45LgO3ly-622nXo:22 Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (slippy [10.1.1.91]) by spqr.komquats.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 594A6C32; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:40:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from slippy.cwsent.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id wBN9eHaN031336; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:40:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Received: from slippy (cy@localhost) by slippy.cwsent.com (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id wBN9eGhd031314; Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:40:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com) Message-Id: <201812230940.wBN9eGhd031314@slippy.cwsent.com> X-Authentication-Warning: slippy.cwsent.com: cy owned process doing -bs X-Mailer: exmh version 2.8.0 04/21/2012 with nmh-1.7.1 Reply-to: Cy Schubert From: Cy Schubert X-os: FreeBSD X-Sender: cy@cwsent.com X-URL: http://www.cschubert.com/ To: =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= cc: Cy Schubert , Yuri Pankov , Mark Peek , Enji Cooper , Warner Losh , freebsd-current Subject: Re: workaround for VMware WS NAT bug triggered by OpenSSH 7.8p1 changes In-Reply-To: Message from =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rgrav?= of "Sun, 23 Dec 2018 10:21:56 +0100." <865zvkpphn.fsf@next.des.no> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 01:40:16 -0800 X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfAng8fOXa95u42CMOQn+CFjTDQL8nXHrk20XslXEyXrrCtVHlGZhXTfsKnSx+/x6b4qvK0Ww2Ui8eSm+Sj25tnGrjVWcpzzAeh65Cpp7PfgUROwJlhpn pETUFyvxAFAaATUapWsZ5Qeap/PvwYCKuLPMK5LyYjYPnDjHji3Z3rm6HBz0+GdK88cIKr3emcoRITNtb/02FZlJ2NxR0CTVyR6LvjPiw/BeAG0bkg76Rvcy GnZTDNQvgyxXKlrC5Nk/SpxlOLMAEk88xjZRPisAY1UUqEEoy4+oZpJTKTYCnl7PuICMcU9sZcolzGlCJEkUNg== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 0087D6B676 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.39 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[17.125.67.70.zen.spamhaus.org : 127.0.0.11]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_XAW(0.00)[]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[Cy.Schubert@cschubert.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.38)[0.382,0]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: spqr.komquats.com]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:6327, ipnet:64.59.128.0/20, country:CA]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(-2.07)[ip: (-5.84), ipnet: 64.59.128.0/20(-2.44), asn: 6327(-1.95), country: CA(-0.09)]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[12.134.59.64.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.1] X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2018 09:40:24 -0000 In message <865zvkpphn.fsf@next.des.no>, =?utf-8?Q?Dag-Erling_Sm=C3=B8rg rav?= w rites: > Cy Schubert writes: > > I know our code is full of workarounds and theirs probably too. The > > question is should we? IMO no. > > Unfortunately, the world is imperfect and does not care about your > opinion. Correct. I know that too well. > 90% of the hardware we run on deviates from the spec in some > way or another and requires workarounds in the kernel. We even have a > whole system of quirks for disks and USB devices. Libfetch contains > workarounds for buggy HTTP servers. OpenSSH has hundreds of lines of > code devoted to identifying the server and selecting workarounds to > apply. Without those workarounds, FreeBSD would not be a viable piece > of software. Wishing they weren't needed is a waste of time and energy. Well, the patch isn't a hackish as some workounds. This probably doesn't warrant a MK_option however since it changes the default, a mention in the man page should be made. I'm still of the opinion that a management solution would be better, which I'm sure RH is taking. I've been in this business long enough to know that it's a miracle that any of this stuff works. Much of it is held together with bubble gum and string. -- Cheers, Cy Schubert FreeBSD UNIX: Web: http://www.FreeBSD.org The need of the many outweighs the greed of the few.