From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 2:23:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FF6A37B404; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 02:23:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id EA3955341; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:23:46 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: "Mike Meyer" Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, chuckr@freebsd.org, obrien@freebsd.org, will@freebsd.org, alex@freebsd.org, dd@freebsd.org, pat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Make's ongoing effort to get his PR's closed... References: <15471.20623.71951.789260@guru.mired.org> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 11:23:46 +0100 In-Reply-To: <15471.20623.71951.789260@guru.mired.org> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Mike Meyer" writes: > In my ongoing attempt to get my PR's closed, here's the list > again. They are listed roughly in the order of difficulty. Please send this to buggers@ofug.org. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 3:14:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp07.wxs.nl (smtp07.wxs.nl [195.121.6.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29EF337B404; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 03:14:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from there ([80.60.248.65]) by smtp07.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GROCKO02.5ZD; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:14:48 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Peter J. Blok" To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, freebsd-net@freebsd.org Subject: if_wb w89c840af winbond card Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:14:48 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020217111451.29EF337B404@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I wonder if there is somebody who has a working winbond ethernet card. My card has a W89C840 chip and an AC104 PHY. The driver doesn't find the AC104 and as a result the kernel panics. The fix to avoid the panic is very easy, but i started to wonder if it is the AC104 that is causing this or that the driver is disfunctional for all PHYs. I am trying to determine why the PHY is not detected, but it helps to know if the code is completely broken or not. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 3:31:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailhost.det.ameritech.net (mpdr0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net [206.141.239.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 120A537B404 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 03:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ameritech.net ([206.141.216.198]) by mailhost.det.ameritech.net (InterMail v4.01.01.07 201-229-111-110) with SMTP id <20020217114015.HKNM24881.mailhost.det.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:40:15 -0500 Date: 17 Feb 02 04:48:18 -0500 From: "KD" X-Mailer: My e-Mailer v2.0 To: Subject: Natural stone tables MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="__141082A14AD2CF2DE03D50B90A06F334__" Message-Id: <20020217114015.HKNM24881.mailhost.det.ameritech.net@ameritech.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --__141082A14AD2CF2DE03D50B90A06F334__ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Product Updates: For our new natural stone tables, please sign in early for the dealership program. You can also check our web site at http://www.chinastonemarble.com http://www.homeironworks.com http://www.constructionstone.com European distributorship is needed. If this email reach you by mistake, please type "Remove" and send back to stoneage@ameritech.net with your email address. --__141082A14AD2CF2DE03D50B90A06F334__ Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="tb008.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; inline /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAgEAZABkAAD/7QE0UGhvdG9zaG9wIDMuMAA4QklNA+0AAAAA ABAAZAAAAAEAAQBkAAAAAQABOEJJTQPzAAAAAAAIAAAAAAAAAAA4QklNJxAAAAAA AAoAAQAAAAAAAAACOEJJTQP1AAAAAABIAC9mZgABAGxmZgAGAAAAAAABAC9mZgAB AKGZmgAGAAAAAAABADIAAAABAFoAAAAGAAAAAAABADUAAAABAC0AAAAGAAAAAAAB OEJJTQP4AAAAAABwAAD/////////////////////////////A+gAAAAA//////// /////////////////////wPoAAAAAP////////////////////////////8D6AAA AAD/////////////////////////////A+gAADhCSU0EBgAAAAAAAgAC/+4ADkFk b2JlAGSAAAAAAf/bAIQADAgICAkIDAkJDBELCgsRFQ8MDA8VGBMTFRMTGBEMDAwM DAwRDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAENCwsNDg0QDg4QFA4ODhQU Dg4ODhQRDAwMDAwREQwMDAwMDBEMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwMDAwM /8AAEQgBUwHqAwEiAAIRAQMRAf/EAT8AAAEFAQEBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAMAAQIEBQYH 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majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 6:33:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web21104.mail.yahoo.com (web21104.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.227.106]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5BB6537B416 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:33:44 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [62.254.0.5] by web21104.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:33:43 PST Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:33:43 -0800 (PST) From: Hiten Pandya Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Subject: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? To: hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hi all, [ I am not currently subscribed to -questions, please CC a copy to me, thanks. :) ] I beleive this question is not intended for the -hackers list, but might be interesting. I have also cc'ed this to the -questions list. Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is kHTTPD for Linux? Thanks, Regards, -- Hiten Pandya -- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 6:59:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com (host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.129.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B571B37B402; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 06:59:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8DA8B44E; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:59:35 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:59:35 +0000 From: Dominic Marks To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217145935.A1481@host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btop> References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>; from hitmaster2k@yahoo.com on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:33:43AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:33:43AM -0800, Hiten Pandya wrote: > hi all, > > [ I am not currently subscribed to -questions, please CC a copy to > me, thanks. :) ] > > I beleive this question is not intended for the -hackers list, > but might be interesting. I have also cc'ed this to the > -questions list. > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > kHTTPD for Linux? Ive never seen or heard of one, at least not one available to the general public. Services should be executed in the user space, thats what its for. Cross-polluting these user/kernel environments is to be discouraged. Thats my opinion anyway. > Thanks, > Regards, > > -- Hiten Pandya > -- > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > http://sports.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Dominic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 7:30:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E86437B402; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 07:30:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id E79255344; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:30:20 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 16:30:20 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hiten Pandya writes: > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > kHTTPD for Linux? God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd seriously consider for production use. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 8:12:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.rwwa.com (ns1.rwwa.com [66.92.67.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955A637B400 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:12:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from rwwa.com (harvey.rwwa.com [192.124.97.11]) by ns1.rwwa.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2B3235 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:12:49 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.3.1 01/18/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Clearcase and FreeBSD Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:12:49 -0500 From: Robert Withrow Message-Id: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi: I was wondering if there was anyone working on getting ClearCase working on FreeBSD? It seems that if we can get the Linux version of VmWare to run on FreeBSD it should be possible to get the Linux version of ClearCase to run on FreeBSD, but maybe I'm just dreamin'? --------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 8:31: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from voi.aagh.net (pc1-hart4-0-cust168.mid.cable.ntl.com [62.254.84.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BAA737B400; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from freaky by voi.aagh.net with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16cUD7-000DmV-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:30:45 +0000 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:30:45 +0000 From: Thomas Hurst To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217163045.GB90303@voi.aagh.net> Mail-Followup-To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Organization: Not much. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/4.5-PRERELEASE (i386) X-Uptime: 4:25PM up 59 days, 1:10, 4 users, load averages: 2.55, 2.64, 2.52 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dag-Erling Smorgrav (des@ofug.org) wrote: > Hiten Pandya writes: > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is kHTTPD > > for Linux? > > God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd > seriously consider for production use. Don't functions like FreeBSD's zero-copy sendfile() provide similar performance benefits without the massive security issues? If the remaining speed "hog" of switching to userspace to process the request itself is causing noticable bottlenecks, I think that's a sign you need more Pentium than the service needs moving to the kernel :) -- Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst - freaky@aagh.net - http://www.aagh.net/ - One of the disadvantages of having children is that they eventually get old enough to give you presents they make at school. -- Robert Byrne To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 8:36: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from energyhq.homeip.net (213-97-200-73.uc.nombres.ttd.es [213.97.200.73]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 421A737B417; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by energyhq.homeip.net (Postfix, from userid 1001) id DC1673FC51; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:36:09 +0100 (CET) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:36:09 +0100 From: Miguel Mendez To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217173609.A25030@energyhq.homeip.net> References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com>; from hitmaster2k@yahoo.com on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:33:43AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:33:43AM -0800, Hiten Pandya wrote: Hi, > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > kHTTPD for Linux? As others have pointed out, it may have big hacker value, but no one would use it for anything serious. AFAIK there's no such thing for FreeBSD, but one thing I remember, is that once the Linux kernel incorporat= ed the zero copy netowrking code, userland HTTP servicing like Tux saw it's performance increase on par with khttpd, so it seems that's not worth to run a http server in kernel space. Cheers, --=20 Miguel Mendez - flynn@energyhq.homeip.net GPG Public Key :: http://energyhq.homeip.net/files/pubkey.txt EnergyHQ :: http://www.energyhq.tk FreeBSD - The power to serve! --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8b9v4nLctrNyFFPERAue8AKCWMrT0H60sbMv9qLIU6pPnpiC72ACeMBY8 /iRHuwAYXUN1x4CMQI7FV80= =x/Qc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --ZPt4rx8FFjLCG7dd-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10: 3: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB3637B404; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:03:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id DE7CE5341; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:02:57 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Thomas Hurst Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> <20020217163045.GB90303@voi.aagh.net> From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:02:56 +0100 In-Reply-To: <20020217163045.GB90303@voi.aagh.net> Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Hurst writes: > Don't functions like FreeBSD's zero-copy sendfile() provide similar > performance benefits without the massive security issues? sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:14:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mustard.heime.net (mustard.heime.net [194.234.65.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84DE237B400; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (roy@localhost) by mustard.heime.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g1HIDox06415; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:50 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:13:50 +0100 (CET) From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory" non-zero-copy usually goes device -> buffer -> user space -> buffer -> device (2 copy operations) zero-copy device -> buffer/userspace/shared -> device -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working when you open Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:15:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mustard.heime.net (mustard.heime.net [194.234.65.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45A1937B44B; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (roy@localhost) by mustard.heime.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g1HIFAA06437; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:15:10 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:15:10 +0100 (CET) From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > > kHTTPD for Linux? > > God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd > seriously consider for production use. well .. So let's turn the question upside-down, and ask "Is there a web server or -accelerator for FreeBSD with similar performance as with khttpd or Tux? -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working when you open Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:26: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A90DF37B405; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:26:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 32CC95341; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:26:01 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Cc: , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:26:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 10 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk writes: > well .. So let's turn the question upside-down, and ask "Is there a web > server or -accelerator for FreeBSD with similar performance as with khttpd > or Tux? Have you tried thttpd or boa? DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:27: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com (host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.129.40]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1946037B41E; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:26:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btopenworld.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 5F83F44E; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:27:21 +0000 (GMT) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:27:21 +0000 From: Dominic Marks To: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217182721.C1481@host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btop> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from roy@karlsbakk.net on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 07:15:10PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 07:15:10PM +0100, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > > > kHTTPD for Linux? > > > > God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd > > seriously consider for production use. > > well .. So let's turn the question upside-down, and ask "Is there a web > server or -accelerator for FreeBSD with similar performance as with khttpd > or Tux? Zeus is the best overall. A lot of people also seem to have good performance from tHttpd and Boa. When you say 'similar performance' how many Mbit/s can Tux achieve (for static and dynamic content aggregated). > -- > Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA > > Computers are like air conditioners. > They stop working when you open Windows. > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Dominic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:31:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mustard.heime.net (mustard.heime.net [194.234.65.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1011837B400; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:31:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (roy@localhost) by mustard.heime.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g1HIV6i06497; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:31:06 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:31:06 +0100 (CET) From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Have you tried thttpd or boa? thttpd chrashed when >2 simultanous downloads was started (large files) haven tried boa... > > DES > -- > Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org > -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working when you open Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:33:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 441FB37B404; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 6053A5343; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:33:01 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:33:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 9 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk writes: > > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. > zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory" To an MCSE, maybe. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:40:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mustard.heime.net (mustard.heime.net [194.234.65.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D60337B400; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:39:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (roy@localhost) by mustard.heime.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g1HIdd406538; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:39:39 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:39:39 +0100 (CET) From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. > > zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory" > > To an MCSE, maybe. strange ... It's interesting that Dr. Scient Paal Halvorsen that recently finished his thesis about the subject 'Memory buffering / caching in multimedia streaming systems'. This has the following description The INSTANCE operating system enhancements show great improvements for multimedia streaming. In this thesis, we want to look at buffering/caching/prefetching mechanisms suitable for multimedia streams combined with the INSTANCE zero-copy data path. See http://www.ifi.uio.no/~paalh/index2.html for more info hm Am I an idiot here or have someone else misunderstood? -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working when you open Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:41:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 673ED37B483; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020217184023.XVYG2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:40:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA46907; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:27:07 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:27:06 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Dominic Marks Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org, jdp@polstra.com Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <20020217145935.A1481@host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btop> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG there is one. Written by jdp@freebsd.org I think it's proprietary but maybe not.. (CC'd) On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Dominic Marks wrote: > Hey, > > On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 06:33:43AM -0800, Hiten Pandya wrote: > > hi all, > > > > [ I am not currently subscribed to -questions, please CC a copy to > > me, thanks. :) ] > > > > I beleive this question is not intended for the -hackers list, > > but might be interesting. I have also cc'ed this to the > > -questions list. > > > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > > kHTTPD for Linux? > > Ive never seen or heard of one, at least not one available to the > general public. Services should be executed in the user space, thats > what its for. Cross-polluting these user/kernel environments is to be > discouraged. > > Thats my opinion anyway. > > > Thanks, > > Regards, > > > > -- Hiten Pandya > > -- > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games > > http://sports.yahoo.com > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > > -- > Dominic > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 10:51: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from flood.ping.uio.no (flood.ping.uio.no [129.240.78.31]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38D4A37B402; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:51:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by flood.ping.uio.no (Postfix, from userid 2602) id 130D05341; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:51:01 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.ofug.org/~des/ X-Disclaimer: The views expressed in this message do not necessarily coincide with those of any organisation or company with which I am or have been affiliated. To: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: From: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:51:00 +0100 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Lines: 19 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/21.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk writes: > > > > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. > > > zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory" > > To an MCSE, maybe. > strange ... > [...] So what would you call direct DMA from the disk controller to the network adapter? Minus-one-copy? And even in the sendfile(2) case, data sometimes *is* copied in-core to satisfy alignment requirements etc. Stop using buzzwords just because they give you a woody. (and yes, even a Dr. Scient can be mistaken. Papers don't make you smart, you know - though I wouldn't expect someone who brags about being an MCSE and MCNE to understand that) DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - des@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11: 4: 2 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from acl.lanl.gov (acl.lanl.gov [128.165.147.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 5A92437B419 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:03:54 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1752262 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2002 12:03:53 -0700 Received: from xed.acl.lanl.gov (128.165.147.191) by acl.lanl.gov with SMTP; 17 Feb 2002 12:03:53 -0700 Received: (qmail 5223 invoked by uid 3499); 17 Feb 2002 12:03:53 -0700 Received: from localhost (sendmail-bs@127.0.0.1) by localhost with SMTP; 17 Feb 2002 12:03:53 -0700 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:03:53 -0700 (MST) From: Ronald G Minnich X-X-Sender: To: Cc: Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 17 Feb 2002, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk writes: > > > sendfile() isn't zero-copy, it's just two-less-copies. > > zero-copy means "zero copy-operations within memory" > > To an MCSE, maybe. I think Roy is right. AFAIK the term "zero copy" was invented by Van Jacobsen ca. 1990 to describe an optimized TCP stack he had working with the Witless interface project he did with HP, while he was still at LBL. Witless was an FDDI interface with interesting properties -- still well worth studying today. And, there was one copy in the TCP for Witless. You had to read "zero copy" to mean "Zero copies more than the absolute minimum". When we did the MINI interface at the SRC (ca. 1994), which had one less copy than Witless, we jokingly called it a "-1 copy" interface. ron To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11: 5: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wall.polstra.com (wall-gw.polstra.com [206.213.73.130]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DE6F37B402 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from vashon.polstra.com (vashon.polstra.com [206.213.73.13]) by wall.polstra.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1HJ54o36419 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:05:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp@wall.polstra.com) Received: (from jdp@localhost) by vashon.polstra.com (8.11.6/8.11.0) id g1HJ54Z29813; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:05:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jdp) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:05:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org From: John Polstra Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: References: Organization: Polstra & Co., Seattle, WA Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In article , Julian Elischer wrote: > there is one. > Written by jdp@freebsd.org > > I think it's proprietary but maybe not.. > (CC'd) Yes, I wrote one. Yes, it's proprietary. To those who dismissed it as a dumb idea: broaden your minds. It's extremely useful for certain specialized applications. One obvious example is as part of a testbed for performance testing various kinds of network appliances. John -- John Polstra John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington USA "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Chögyam Trungpa To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11:12:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from voi.aagh.net (pc1-hart4-0-cust168.mid.cable.ntl.com [62.254.84.168]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC4537B416 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:12:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from freaky by voi.aagh.net with local (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16cWjq-000EcY-00 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:12:42 +0000 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:12:42 +0000 From: Thomas Hurst To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217191242.GD55217@voi.aagh.net> Mail-Followup-To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Organization: Not much. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD/4.5-PRERELEASE (i386) X-Uptime: 7:09PM up 59 days, 3:54, 4 users, load averages: 2.00, 2.01, 2.00 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * John Polstra (jdp@polstra.com) wrote: > To those who dismissed it as a dumb idea: broaden your minds. It wasn't dismissed as a dumb idea, more an idea nobody would use for a production webserver, which I doubt includes: > a testbed for performance testing various kinds of network appliances. Despite how useful it might be for benchmarking :) -- Thomas 'Freaky' Hurst - freaky@aagh.net - http://www.aagh.net/ - Never eat more than you can lift. -- Miss Piggy To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11:15:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mustard.heime.net (mustard.heime.net [194.234.65.222]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39E1837B416; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:15:18 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (roy@localhost) by mustard.heime.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id g1HJFDR06658; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:15:13 +0100 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:15:13 +0100 (CET) From: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk X-Sender: To: Dag-Erling Smorgrav Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > So what would you call direct DMA from the disk controller to the > network adapter? Minus-one-copy? And even in the sendfile(2) case, > data sometimes *is* copied in-core to satisfy alignment requirements > etc. Stop using buzzwords just because they give you a woody. buzzwords or whatever - I really dont care. But can you please point at *one* application/system/whatever that is using HDD->NIC DMA? > (and yes, even a Dr. Scient can be mistaken. Papers don't make you > smart, you know - though I wouldn't expect someone who brags about > being an MCSE and MCNE to understand that) er.. So - if you certify within a product, you'll probably become dumber? Grow up -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA Computers are like air conditioners. They stop working when you open Windows. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11:26:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D39B37B405 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:26:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 0DF36AE602; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:26:39 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:26:39 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Robert Withrow Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020217192638.GG12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Robert Withrow [020217 08:13] wrote: > Hi: > > I was wondering if there was anyone working on getting ClearCase working > on FreeBSD? > > It seems that if we can get the Linux version of VmWare to run on FreeBSD > it should be possible to get the Linux version of ClearCase to run on > FreeBSD, but maybe I'm just dreamin'? Can you point us at the support files that clearcase needs on linnex? -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 11:40:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1E0837B417 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020217194009.EPAQ1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:40:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA47178; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:35:35 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG now all we need is to connnect it to sysctl "remote configuration of your kernel via web interface" (runs screaming from room) On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, John Polstra wrote: > In article , > Julian Elischer wrote: > > there is one. > > Written by jdp@freebsd.org > >=20 > > I think it's proprietary but maybe not.. > > (CC'd) >=20 > Yes, I wrote one. Yes, it's proprietary. >=20 > To those who dismissed it as a dumb idea: broaden your minds. It's > extremely useful for certain specialized applications. One obvious > example is as part of a testbed for performance testing various kinds > of network appliances. >=20 > John > --=20 > John Polstra > John D. Polstra & Co., Inc. Seattle, Washington = USA > "Disappointment is a good sign of basic intelligence." -- Ch=F6gyam Tr= ungpa >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 12:31:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mdv.dhs.org (mdv.xs4all.nl [213.84.209.48]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81DAE37B42A; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:30:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from root@localhost) by mdv.dhs.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1HKUYB02016; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:30:34 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mdevries@haveityourway.nl) Received: from marcel.haveityourway.nl (marcel.mdv.int [192.168.1.3]) by mdv.dhs.org (8.11.6/8.11.6av) with ESMTP id g1HKUWn02009; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:30:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mdevries@haveityourway.nl) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217212523.00b793d0@outshine> X-Sender: mdevries@outshine X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 21:30:26 +0100 To: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk , Dag-Erling Smorgrav From: Marcel de Vries Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Cc: Thomas Hurst , , , In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Virus-Scanned: by AMaViS perl-11 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As far as I can see about publishing your Product Status is really immature you know. To be posting this in a open source community is be asking for an confrontation. It is not about being smart of dump, to keep in track and learning the beauty of technology but even to make bigger sense in a way this community helps each other the best way is to cut the Status crap at the end of your signature. Enjoy your Certifcates on the wall in your living room in a private manner you know what I mean? . But bragging about that stuff in your mail is not a way to earn respect. I really dislike to see this beef, I respect you and I'm proud for your achievements but for the future keep it low profile, or else it would only be used against you. And can somebody please help me with the no buffer space problem I posted yesterday ;-) Should I say more? Marcel de Vries, Swim Diploma, Firt Aid, And I don't give a F##K At 20:15 17-02-2002 +0100, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > > So what would you call direct DMA from the disk controller to the > > network adapter? Minus-one-copy? And even in the sendfile(2) case, > > data sometimes *is* copied in-core to satisfy alignment requirements > > etc. Stop using buzzwords just because they give you a woody. > >buzzwords or whatever - I really dont care. > >But can you please point at *one* application/system/whatever that is >using HDD->NIC DMA? > > > (and yes, even a Dr. Scient can be mistaken. Papers don't make you > > smart, you know - though I wouldn't expect someone who brags about > > being an MCSE and MCNE to understand that) > >er.. So - if you certify within a product, you'll probably become dumber? > >Grow up > >-- >Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA > >Computers are like air conditioners. >They stop working when you open Windows. > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 12:36:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 010CD37B416 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:36:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id g1HKZt323576; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from orbit-fe.eng (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id g1HKZtJQ016378; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:35:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost) by orbit-fe.eng (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1HKZbs02838; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:35:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:35:37 -0800 (PST) From: Kip Macy To: Marcel de Vries Cc: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , Thomas Hurst , hiten@uk.freebsd.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020217212523.00b793d0@outshine> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Can we move the personal slights off of -hackers? This is extraordinarily unprofessional. If you need to do this in a public forum, do it on -chat. On Sun, 17 Feb 2002, Marcel de Vries wrote: > As far as I can see about publishing your Product Status is really immature > you know. > To be posting this in a open source community is be asking for an > confrontation. > > It is not about being smart of dump, to keep in track and learning the > beauty of technology but even to make bigger sense in a way this community > helps each other the best way is to cut the Status crap at the end of your > signature. > > Enjoy your Certifcates on the wall in your living room in a private manner > you know what I mean? . But bragging about that stuff in your mail is not a > way to earn respect. > > I really dislike to see this beef, I respect you and I'm proud for your > achievements but for the future keep it low profile, or else it would only > be used against you. > > And can somebody please help me with the no buffer space problem I posted > yesterday ;-) > > Should I say more? > > Marcel de Vries, Swim Diploma, Firt Aid, And I don't give a F##K > > > > At 20:15 17-02-2002 +0100, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > > > So what would you call direct DMA from the disk controller to the > > > network adapter? Minus-one-copy? And even in the sendfile(2) case, > > > data sometimes *is* copied in-core to satisfy alignment requirements > > > etc. Stop using buzzwords just because they give you a woody. > > > >buzzwords or whatever - I really dont care. > > > >But can you please point at *one* application/system/whatever that is > >using HDD->NIC DMA? > > > > > (and yes, even a Dr. Scient can be mistaken. Papers don't make you > > > smart, you know - though I wouldn't expect someone who brags about > > > being an MCSE and MCNE to understand that) > > > >er.. So - if you certify within a product, you'll probably become dumber? > > > >Grow up > > > >-- > >Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk, MCSE, MCNE, CLS, LCA > > > >Computers are like air conditioners. > >They stop working when you open Windows. > > > > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > >with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 13:52:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from web14205.mail.yahoo.com (web14205.mail.yahoo.com [216.136.172.151]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B001337B400 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:52:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <20020217215240.6584.qmail@web14205.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [12.44.190.11] by web14205.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:52:40 PST Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Neelkanth Natu Subject: bug in ptcwrite() To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, The following code in ptcwrite() in kern/tty_pty.c is supposed to prevent the tty input buffer overflow (for certain cases): 612 if ((tp->t_rawq.c_cc + tp->t_canq.c_cc) >= TTYHOG - 2 && 613 (tp->t_canq.c_cc > 0 || !(tp->t_iflag&ICANON))) { 614 wakeup(TSA_HUP_OR_INPUT(tp)); 615 goto block; 616 } But the ICANON flag is set in tp->t_lflag and not tp->t_iflag. The ICRNL flag in tp->t_iflag has the same value as the ICANON flag in tp->t_lflag (0x100). This leads to input buffer overflow as soon as the ICRNL bit is set in tp->t_iflag, and there are more than 1024 characters that telnet/ssh wants to write to the pty. I discovered this problem when using libreadline because it changes the terminal settings every time it is begins/finishes reading a line. Has anyone else seen a similar problem ? I saw identical behavior on NetBSD too. Please CC me as I am not on the mailing list. thanks Neel __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 14:31:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hpdi.ath.cx (pc1-nthf5-0-cust132.not.cable.ntl.com [80.4.34.132]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 184A137B405 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:31:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from hitenp@localhost) by hpdi.ath.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1HMSWK00312; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:28:32 GMT (envelope-from hitenp) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:28:32 +0000 From: Hiten Pandya To: John Polstra Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217222832.A258@hpdi.ath.cx> Reply-To: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org References: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <200202171905.g1HJ54Z29813@vashon.polstra.com>; from jdp@polstra.com on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 11:05:04AM -0800 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD hpdi.ath.cx 5.0-CURRENT FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organisation: The FreeBSD Project X-PGP-Key: http://www.pittgoth.com/~hiten/pubkey.asc Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 11:05:04AM -0800, John Polstra wrote: > Yes, I wrote one. Yes, it's proprietary. >=20 > One obvious example is as part of a testbed for performance=20 > testing various kinds of network appliances. hmm, Well, so, forgive my bluntness, in a nutshell, there is no in-kernel (un-proprietory) HTTP Server. Also, as John said, it is very useful in some situations. As you visit the kHTTPD website at: http://www.fenrus.demon.nl/ You will see how much performance it offers, compared to=20 userland web servers. I don't mean polluting the kernel with this kind of stuff, but I wouldn't mind having an in-kernel HTTP Accelerator (for static pages). Nothing so fancy, but, just to do its job, which it is good at: "Providing static pages". Anyway, I don't mean that people have to make it. I know I talk to too much, and do less, :), but I will start a project at SourceForge, unless somebody has better options. ;) In a nutshell, it is better to have an in-kernel web server, as some people might like using it, even though it doesn't matter what we say, hehe :) Thanks, Regards, -- Hiten Pandya -- The JFS4BSD Project -- --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE8cC6Phh1dveTjA8MRAkU8AJ4klBV9jSCaB+1uw7qDGtdsMv48xwCgpFv+ EUuApkPGq4Fudl5Jo5F6Hnc= =HVJS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --LZvS9be/3tNcYl/X-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 14:37:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D1E5937B402; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:37:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0152.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.152] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16cZvf-0005WD-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:37:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3C703089.AD03554B@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:36:57 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Thomas Hurst Cc: Dag-Erling Smorgrav , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> <20020217163045.GB90303@voi.aagh.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Thomas Hurst wrote: > * Dag-Erling Smorgrav (des@ofug.org) wrote: > > Hiten Pandya writes: > > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is kHTTPD > > > for Linux? > > > > God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd > > seriously consider for production use. > > Don't functions like FreeBSD's zero-copy sendfile() provide similar > performance benefits without the massive security issues? > > If the remaining speed "hog" of switching to userspace to process the > request itself is causing noticable bottlenecks, I think that's a sign > you need more Pentium than the service needs moving to the kernel :) Not actually. If you have followed the khttpd work at all, then you'll know that Ingo has actually done some admirable work in it. Basically, the entire fast path, including the TCP stack, is small enough that the whole thing fits into the CPU cache itself, without any cache misses. It's actually very fast, considering (there are ways to make it faster that are actually more applicable to the FreeBSD approach, and which would take Linux a lot of work, even if they started from the QLinux base). For static content, such as the images and other content minus the main (non-static) page itself, it's quite a significant win for "first hits", which comprise the majority of HTTP traffic. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 14:41: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5E6337B43F; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0152.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.152] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16cZyx-0001PM-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:40:31 -0800 Message-ID: <3C703154.91ED7FB4@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:40:20 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Miguel Mendez Cc: hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> <20020217173609.A25030@energyhq.homeip.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Miguel Mendez wrote: > As others have pointed out, it may have big hacker value, but no one > would use it for anything serious. AFAIK there's no such thing for > FreeBSD, but one thing I remember, is that once the Linux kernel incorporated > the zero copy netowrking code, userland HTTP servicing like Tux saw it's > performance increase on par with khttpd, so it seems that's not worth to > run a http server in kernel space. First, livelock means that top end load on a khttpd will be higher than top end load on a user http, where there is so much interrupt traffic that the user space never gets to run. Actually, Alfred claims to be the first person to pre-load porn into the FreeBSD kernel, and his approach seriously predates the khttpd work. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 14:47:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB99A37B417; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:47:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 971B0AE608; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:47:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:47:24 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Terry Lambert Cc: Miguel Mendez , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? Message-ID: <20020217224724.GL12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020217143343.41758.qmail@web21104.mail.yahoo.com> <20020217173609.A25030@energyhq.homeip.net> <3C703154.91ED7FB4@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C703154.91ED7FB4@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Terry Lambert [020217 14:41] wrote: > Miguel Mendez wrote: > > As others have pointed out, it may have big hacker value, but no one > > would use it for anything serious. AFAIK there's no such thing for > > FreeBSD, but one thing I remember, is that once the Linux kernel incorporated > > the zero copy netowrking code, userland HTTP servicing like Tux saw it's > > performance increase on par with khttpd, so it seems that's not worth to > > run a http server in kernel space. > > First, livelock means that top end load on a khttpd will be > higher than top end load on a user http, where there is so > much interrupt traffic that the user space never gets to run. > > Actually, Alfred claims to be the first person to pre-load > porn into the FreeBSD kernel, and his approach seriously > predates the khttpd work. 8-). Yes, preloading pron into the kernel does make it serve quite a bit faster. :) I basically made an API that allowed one to load and unload "objects" from the kernel then use a sendfile(2) like syscall to send them. I was servicing 5000 connections a second for 1x1 gifs or several thousand per second (saturating 100mbit) for larger images. I also used kqueue. The real problem is that most of the generic web servers available (as well as most commercial ones) just suck for handling IO and events. A well thought out design can give you quite a perf boost without needing to stick the _entire_ thing into the kernel. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 15: 6:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C984337B404; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0152.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.152] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16caNb-0005Hx-00; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:06:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3C70374D.6F29869C@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:05:49 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dominic Marks Cc: Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk , Dag-Erling Smorgrav , hiten@uk.FreeBSD.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: in-kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD? References: <20020217182721.C1481@host213-123-129-40.in-addr.btop> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dominic Marks wrote: > On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 07:15:10PM +0100, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk wrote: > > > > Is there any In-Kernel HTTP Server for FreeBSD, like there is > > > > kHTTPD for Linux? > > > > > > God forbid! Lots of hack value, sure, but not something you'd > > > seriously consider for production use. > > > > well .. So let's turn the question upside-down, and ask "Is there a web > > server or -accelerator for FreeBSD with similar performance as with khttpd > > or Tux? > > Zeus is the best overall. A lot of people also seem to have good > performance from tHttpd and Boa. When you say 'similar performance' > how many Mbit/s can Tux achieve (for static and dynamic content > aggregated). The real figure of merit you should be looking for here is "requests per second" -- HTTP 1.1; if you measure 1.0 requests, you actually end up measuring connection per second, instead, which is not a real figure of merit. BTW: There's actually a couple of ways to get the average connections per second incredibly high -- on the order of 300,000 per second -- but they involve using techniques that are not really useful in real life, since over a certain level, your stall point moves to the number of simultaneous connections you can support vs. the 2 MSL for the TIME_WAIT. Any number over around 30,000 CPS is therefore a ramp-up number, and is not sustainable over a long duration. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sun Feb 17 15:15:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E144C37B400 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:15:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with UUCP id g1HNF6W42233 for hackers@freebsd.org; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:15:06 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] (eccles [194.32.164.2]) by seagoon.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA23490 for ; Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:06:35 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:06:46 +0000 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: Bob Bishop Subject: Multicast problem with sis interface? Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, Seems there might be some problem with multicast on sis interfaces. Specifically, netatalk doesn't work right on this box through the sis interface but it's fine through the RealTek. This is the onboard interface on a K7S5A m/b, dmesg follows. Ideas, anyone? TIA Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE #1: Sun Feb 17 16:18:51 GMT 2002 rb@gid-dhcp14.gid.co.uk:/usr/src/sys/compile/SEAGOON Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: AMD Duron(tm) Processor (995.77-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "AuthenticAMD" Id = 0x670 Stepping = 0 Features=0x383f9ff AMD Features=0xc0440000<,AMIE,DSP,3DNow!> real memory = 268435456 (262144K bytes) avail memory = 256499712 (250488K bytes) Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc049a000. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled md0: Malloc disk Using $PIR table, 8 entries at 0xc00f7790 npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard pci0: on pcib0 pcib2: at device 1.0 on pci0 pci1: on pcib2 isab0: at device 2.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 ohci0: mem 0xcbfed000-0xcbfedfff irq 12 at device 2.2 on pci0 usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: SiS OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered ohci1: mem 0xcbfee000-0xcbfeefff irq 11 at device 2.3 on pci0 usb1: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb1: on ohci1 usb1: USB revision 1.0 uhub1: SiS OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub1: 3 ports with 3 removable, self powered atapci0: port 0xff00-0xff0f at device 2.5 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 pci0: (vendor=0x1039, dev=0x7012) at 2.7 irq 5 sis0: port 0xd000-0xd0ff mem 0xcbfec000-0xcbfecfff irq 12 at device 3.0 on pci0 sis0: Ethernet address: 00:d0:09:e9:e9:7e miibus0: on sis0 ukphy0: on miibus0 ukphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto pci0: at 9.0 irq 0 rl0: port 0xcc00-0xccff mem 0xcbfebf00-0xcbfebfff ir q 5 at device 11.0 on pci0 rl0: Ethernet address: 00:50:bf:32:ca:db miibus1: on rl0 rlphy0: on miibus1 rlphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto ahc0: port 0xdc00-0xdcff mem 0xcbfef000-0xcbfe ffff irq 5 at device 13.0 on pci0 aic7880: Ultra Wide Channel A, SCSI Id=7, 16/255 SCBs pcib1: on motherboard pci2: on pcib1 orm0: remove --part1_17c.3c7a8ea.29a2d99f_boundary-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 18:37:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rediffmail.com (host-64-110-31-18.interpacket.net [64.110.31.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id B623437B402 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:37:00 -0800 (PST) From: "DR.MRS MIRIAM ABACHA" To: Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:37:46 +0100 Reply-To: "DR.MRS MIRIAM ABACHA" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020219023700.B623437B402@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG FROM: MRS. MARIAM ABACHA C/O SHEWU ABACHA LAGOS - NIGERIA. 19TH FEB,2002 Fax: 234-1-759-0900 E-mail: mabacha68@eudoramail.com ATTN:PRESIDENT/CEO, I am Mrs. Mariam Abacha, the widow of late Gen. Sani Abacha. Former Nigeria military head of state who died mysteriouly as a result of cardiac arrest. Since after my husband`s death. my family has been going through immense harassment including undue police restriction and molestation . The family account with the bank here and abroad have been frozen by the government for reasons that are rather vindicative. Our plight ever made worse by the confiscation/ seizure of our family landed properties and investment in Nigeria. One of the witch-hunting search light of the government beamed on our account a Swiss bank which had a sum of US$ 700 Million in it and another US$ 450Million. Threats of freezing and clamp on the account have been too much. It is for this reason that I have decided to move the sum of US$ 60 Million in defaced form packed carefully in sealed metal boxes for reason of security.I humbly appeal to you on behalf of the entire family members to save us from starvation, poverty and strangulation by assisting us move the money into your country where it shall be safe, since I cannot leave Nigeria now due to the movement restriction place on us. You can reach us through our fax number above. Our Lawyer shall arrange a face to face meeting outside Nigeria for effective and logical movement of the money. You can equally get in touch with my younger son, Shewu Abacha (Mr) on his cellular phone number: 234-1-470-9814 or his e-mail address: (mabacha68@eudoramail.com) We will disclose to you the country the security company is located in west africa as soon as you show interest. My son shall give you details of this confidentially as soon as you get in touch. For the anticipated co- pperation, we have set 20% of the money for you while 75% shall be held on trust until we decide on a joint venture business to do with the money as soon as we regain freedom, while 5% shall be mapped out for any incidental expenses that may arise. Treat with confident and do reply to save us from the stifling grip of the merciless government. Best regards, Hajia Marian Abacha (Mrs To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 18:54: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (rwcrmhc52.attbi.com [216.148.227.88]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9986B37B404 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:54:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from peter3.wemm.org ([12.232.27.13]) by rwcrmhc52.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020219025402.PZEM1147.rwcrmhc52.attbi.com@peter3.wemm.org> for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:54:02 +0000 Received: from overcee.wemm.org (overcee.wemm.org [10.0.0.3]) by peter3.wemm.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g1J2s2s35143 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:54:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from wemm.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by overcee.wemm.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1B013A9A; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:54:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Mike Silbersack Cc: Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) In-Reply-To: <20020218134544.C48587-100000@patrocles.silby.com> Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:54:01 -0800 From: Peter Wemm Message-Id: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Hiten Pandya wrote: > > > hi all, > > > > As to conclude this thread (for me.), I have come to the decision of > > actually starting a project for making a BSD Licensed in-kernel HTTPd > > server. The project will be on SourceForge.net. > > > > As you all know, that when starting a project, a name is needed for > > project; I completely out of ideas, and I have literally no creative > > skills. :) > > If you want to be really useful, I have a better first step for you. :) > > Common wisdom seems to be that Apache is slow, other httpds are faster, > custom ones are fastest. However, I don't think I've actually seen any > comparisons since this one of thttpd vs others: > > http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/benchmarks.html > > Before starting work on a kernel httpd, you might wish to run similar > benchmarks (with perhaps only 5 different httpds) to see what the current > performance of FreeBSD is; it may turn out that some limitation in the TCP > stack is hit even by userland httpds, and your effort would be better > spent on fixing that first. The problem is that our threads implementation sucks. The moment that thttpd has to do an actual disk read on freebsd, the whole thing comes to a screeching halt. Threaded http servers do not stand up to real-world loads on freebsd, unless there are very specially constructred scenarios in place.. ie: everything is in ram, no FS calls ever block, etc. Cheers, -Peter -- Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 19:28:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from patrocles.silby.com (d154.as20.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.139.156]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE5CC37B400 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:28:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from patrocles.silby.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1ILWbpV003099; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:32:37 GMT (envelope-from silby@silby.com) Received: from localhost (silby@localhost) by patrocles.silby.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) with ESMTP id g1ILWKTb003096; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:32:28 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: patrocles.silby.com: silby owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:32:20 +0000 (GMT) From: Mike Silbersack To: Peter Wemm Cc: Hiten Pandya , Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) In-Reply-To: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> Message-ID: <20020218212717.T3055-100000@patrocles.silby.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Peter Wemm wrote: > The problem is that our threads implementation sucks. The moment that > thttpd has to do an actual disk read on freebsd, the whole thing comes to a > screeching halt. > > Threaded http servers do not stand up to real-world loads on freebsd, unless > there are very specially constructred scenarios in place.. ie: everything is > in ram, no FS calls ever block, etc. > > Cheers, > -Peter Well, a benchmark should be able to show that, assuming that a set of files larger than physical ram is used. I wasn't intending to imply that thttpd was necessarily superior to Apache, I just would be interested to see how various web servers compare today. Mike "Silby" Silbersack To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 20: 7:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from meketrex.pix.net (meketrex.pix.net [192.111.45.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0F237B400 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:07:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lidl@localhost) by meketrex.pix.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1J47jc21261 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:07:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:07:45 -0500 From: "Kurt J. Lidl" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020218230745.A21066@pix.net> References: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> <20020218212717.T3055-100000@patrocles.silby.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020218212717.T3055-100000@patrocles.silby.com>; from silby@silby.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:32:20PM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:32:20PM +0000, Mike Silbersack wrote: > Well, a benchmark should be able to show that, assuming that a set of > files larger than physical ram is used. I wasn't intending to imply that > thttpd was necessarily superior to Apache, I just would be interested to > see how various web servers compare today. At the risk of dragging this even further off-topic, I'll throw in a couple of thoughts about web servers and performance. 1) Speed isn't everything. In fact, it's often the last thing that the user/customer goes shopping for. The vast majority of web servers have far more ability to source traffic than their upstream bandwidth will carry. While figuring out how to get a couple of T1's worth of bandwidth out of a web server might have been a challange 7 or 8 years ago, few machines won't do it today. 2) Configurability is highly desirable. This is part of why Apache is so very popular -- it's highly configurable. The plugin modules support allows for all sorts of weird and wonderful features. 3) Robust code is paramount. This is probably the biggest plus for Apache. Apache is known not to be the fastest web server. Examine it's internal architecture -- it's designed to be oh-so-flexible, and moderately fast. Thttpd is much smaller (and much, much less configurable) and doesn't have to pay a penalty for supporting a generically extensible operations framework. Back when I worked on UUNET's web farm, running a BSD based system (BSD/OS for those interested), having Apache's flexibility won out over the raw speed of many of the other web servers we bothered to look at possibly supporting. I have no trouble believing that a lightweight web server can be faster than Apache in sourcing data. If raw throughput is the goal here (and not actually a *useful* web server) -- well, have fun. You might as well just jump right down into the kernel. Or, for maximum performance, perhaps you should do away with the OS entirely and run on the "bare metal", to make sure that not one iota of performance is left on the table. -Kurt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 21: 2:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ambrisko.com (adsl-64-174-51-42.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.174.51.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BC337B41A for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:02:05 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1J51Di73693; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:01:13 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <200202190501.g1J51Di73693@ambrisko.com> Subject: Re: Multicast problem with sis interface? In-Reply-To: To: Bob Bishop Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 21:01:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bob Bishop writes: | Seems there might be some problem with multicast on sis interfaces. | Specifically, netatalk doesn't work right on this box through the sis | interface but it's fine through the RealTek. | This is the onboard interface on a K7S5A m/b, dmesg follows. Ideas, anyone? TIA | | Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. | Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 | The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. | FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE #1: Sun Feb 17 16:18:51 GMT 2002 Try -stable. I found a bug in which on receiving a frame from the chip the chksum was included. This messed up things since the returned packet was to big. Luigi, commited the code to fix this. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 23:10:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.waag.org (A20.waag.org [194.134.18.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37E7737B421 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:10:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pankaj@localhost) by mail.waag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id IAA07707 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:02:30 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:02:13 +0100 From: Pankaj To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219080213.A7580@sarai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG hii all, I was wondering if anyone would put some light over the way 'make' works in freeBSD I mean when i go to /usr/ports/XYZ and type make it tries to fetch the sources and then compiles it Is it a feature in make? I want to make an covering layer over a software such that it automaticaly locates the components it needs and compiles them without the user to look around for them. I have read the handbook's description of it and am still unclear. -- ThanX Pankaj To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 23:37:50 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAB1E37B402 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:37:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1J7beZR051967; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:07:41 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Subject: Re: make in freebsd From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Pankaj Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <20020219080213.A7580@sarai.net> References: <20020219080213.A7580@sarai.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 19 Feb 2002 19:07:40 +1130 Message-Id: <1014104262.556.110.camel@chowder.gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 2002-02-19 at 18:32, Pankaj wrote: > I was wondering if anyone would put some light over the > way 'make' works in freeBSD > I mean when i go to /usr/ports/XYZ and type make it tries > to fetch the sources and then compiles it > Is it a feature in make? > > I want to make an covering layer over a software such that > it automaticaly locates the components it needs and compiles > them without the user to look around for them. The ports tree uses several (large) makefile fragments in /usr/ports/Mk. If you look at the bottom of each port makefile you will see ".include " (although some use pre and post instead if they are complicated). --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 23:48:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 277D637B400; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:48:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 08830AE28D; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:48:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:48:43 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: augustss@netbsd.org, joe@freebsd.org Subject: usb header not c++ friendly. Message-ID: <20020219074842.GH12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "struct usb_device_info" has a field "u_int8_t class" this causes C++ to barf. any suggestions? also, I'm trying to port the linux-hp-printer stuff to *BSD, it's located here: http://hpoj.sourceforge.net/download.shtml But I'm having a hell of a time mapping linux USB ioctl's to *bsd USB ioctls, any clues? -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 23:53:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0D5037B400 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id g1J7rP305041; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from cranford-be.eng (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id g1J7rPdh020842; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost) by cranford-be.eng (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1J7rON16949; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:24 -0800 (PST) From: Kip Macy To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. In-Reply-To: <20020219074842.GH12136@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > "struct usb_device_info" has a field "u_int8_t class" this causes > C++ to barf. any suggestions? > Don't use reserved keywords. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Mon Feb 18 23:53:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailg.telia.com (mailg.telia.com [194.22.194.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D061137B402 for ; Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:53:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from d1o913.telia.com (d1o913.telia.com [195.252.44.241]) by mailg.telia.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J7rOP08772 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:53:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h185n2fls20o913.telia.com [212.181.163.185]) by d1o913.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA16876 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:53:24 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 72270 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Feb 2002 07:53:20 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:53:20 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Pankaj Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219075320.GB68878@student.uu.se> Mail-Followup-To: Pankaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020219080213.A7580@sarai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219080213.A7580@sarai.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:02:13AM +0100, Pankaj wrote: > hii all, > > I was wondering if anyone would put some light over the > way 'make' works in freeBSD > I mean when i go to /usr/ports/XYZ and type make it tries > to fetch the sources and then compiles it > Is it a feature in make? No, it is a feature of the makefiles. 'Make' itself doesn't know anything about fetching sources and so on. Most of the dirty work is done in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk which is included by the port makefiles. > > I want to make an covering layer over a software such that > it automaticaly locates the components it needs and compiles > them without the user to look around for them. > > I have read the handbook's description of it and am still unclear. > -- > ThanX > Pankaj > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 0: 8: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6FAFA37B400; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:08:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 4D363AE2FD; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:08:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:08:00 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kip Macy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@freebsd.org, bde@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. Message-ID: <20020219080800.GI12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219074842.GH12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Kip Macy [020218 23:53] wrote: > > > "struct usb_device_info" has a field "u_int8_t class" this causes > > C++ to barf. any suggestions? > > > Don't use reserved keywords. uh, yeah.... it's not my header. It's the system header it's gonna suck having to write a seperate C file instead of just being able to include my C++ one. Would this be acceptable? Index: usb.h =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/dev/usb/usb.h,v retrieving revision 1.29 diff -u -r1.29 usb.h --- usb.h 16 Feb 2002 00:51:26 -0000 1.29 +++ usb.h 19 Feb 2002 08:13:17 -0000 @@ -593,7 +593,11 @@ u_int16_t productNo; u_int16_t vendorNo; u_int16_t releaseNo; +#ifdef __cplusplus + u_int8_t _class; +#else u_int8_t class; +#endif u_int8_t subclass; u_int8_t protocol; u_int8_t config; -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 0:12:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C28437B417; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0367.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.112] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16d5OP-00001q-00; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:53 -0800 Message-ID: <3C7208FB.F309DD12@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:43 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@freebsd.org, augustss@netbsd.org, joe@freebsd.org Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. References: <20020219074842.GH12136@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > "struct usb_device_info" has a field "u_int8_t class" this causes > C++ to barf. any suggestions? Use the prefix "udi_" for "struct usb_device_info" members. No comment on the printer stuff. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 0:13: 3 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E0D537B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id g1J8Cl305535; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from cranford-be.eng (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id g1J8Ckr4022997; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost) by cranford-be.eng (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1J8Ck117964; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:46 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:12:46 -0800 (PST) From: Kip Macy To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. In-Reply-To: <20020219080800.GI12136@elvis.mu.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG http://web.netapp.com/engineering/projects/raidv2/testing/global/ > > uh, yeah.... it's not my header. Oh duh, sorry... If you do that then you have to modify all the files including it correspondingly. Will putting an extern "C" { ... } around the file not fix the problem? -Kip > > It's the system header it's gonna suck having > to write a seperate C file instead of just being able to include > my C++ one. > > Would this be acceptable? > > Index: usb.h > =================================================================== > RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/dev/usb/usb.h,v > retrieving revision 1.29 > diff -u -r1.29 usb.h > --- usb.h 16 Feb 2002 00:51:26 -0000 1.29 > +++ usb.h 19 Feb 2002 08:13:17 -0000 > @@ -593,7 +593,11 @@ > u_int16_t productNo; > u_int16_t vendorNo; > u_int16_t releaseNo; > +#ifdef __cplusplus > + u_int8_t _class; > +#else > u_int8_t class; > +#endif > u_int8_t subclass; > u_int8_t protocol; > u_int8_t config; > > -- > -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] > 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," > start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' > Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 0:16:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34D2A37B404; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:16:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 0204EAE25A; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:16:44 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:16:44 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Kip Macy Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. Message-ID: <20020219081644.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219080800.GI12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Kip Macy [020219 00:12] wrote: > http://web.netapp.com/engineering/projects/raidv2/testing/global/ > > > > > uh, yeah.... it's not my header. > Oh duh, sorry... > If you do that then you have to modify all the files including it > correspondingly. Will putting an extern "C" { ... } around the file not fix the problem? It won't fix the problem. :( the #ifdef __cplusplus only kicks in when we're compiling c++ sources, sooooooo i think it's ok, gross but ok. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 0:43: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.waag.org (A20.waag.org [194.134.18.30]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636F037B41B for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:42:46 -0800 (PST) Received: (from pankaj@localhost) by mail.waag.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA13828 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:35:06 +0100 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:34:50 +0100 From: Pankaj To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i X-Reader: Look maa I use mutt. Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday 19 February 2002 13:23, Erik Trulsson wrote: > > No, it is a feature of the makefiles. 'Make' itself doesn't know > anything about fetching sources and so on. > Most of the dirty work is done in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk which is > included by the port makefiles. which means I can safely use a similar makefile and have it *nix specific and also download what i need automatically. I may be asking dumb questions cuz i dont know anything about Makefiles I better go RTFM <-- any links ThanX -- regards Pankaj To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1: 6:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailf.telia.com (mailf.telia.com [194.22.194.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7451837B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:06:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from d1o913.telia.com (d1o913.telia.com [195.252.44.241]) by mailf.telia.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J96B021233 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:06:11 +0100 (CET) Received: from falcon.midgard.homeip.net (h185n2fls20o913.telia.com [212.181.163.185]) by d1o913.telia.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA16267 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:06:10 +0100 (CET) Received: (qmail 81296 invoked by uid 1001); 19 Feb 2002 09:06:10 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:06:09 +0100 From: Erik Trulsson To: Pankaj Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219090609.GA81036@student.uu.se> Mail-Followup-To: Pankaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:34:50AM +0100, Pankaj wrote: > On Tuesday 19 February 2002 13:23, Erik Trulsson wrote: > > > > > No, it is a feature of the makefiles. 'Make' itself doesn't know > > anything about fetching sources and so on. > > Most of the dirty work is done in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk which is > > included by the port makefiles. > > which means I can safely use a similar makefile and have it *nix specific > and also download what i need automatically. I may be asking dumb questions > cuz i dont know anything about Makefiles I better go RTFM <-- any links One potential problem is that 'make' on different platforms can differ in many details. Some of the features of BSD make that are used by the portmakefiles for example are not supported by GNU make (which is used on Linux) GNU make OTOH supports some things not in BSD make. Writing complicated makefiles that are portable between different 'make' implementations is a non-trivial task. > > ThanX > -- > regards > Pankaj > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Erik Trulsson ertr1013@student.uu.se To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:11:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD9537B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:11:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id B72B2AE343; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:11:27 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:11:27 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Erik Trulsson Cc: Pankaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219091127.GM12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> <20020219090609.GA81036@student.uu.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219090609.GA81036@student.uu.se> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Erik Trulsson [020219 01:06] wrote: > > One potential problem is that 'make' on different platforms can differ > in many details. > Some of the features of BSD make that are used by the portmakefiles for > example are not supported by GNU make (which is used on Linux) GNU make > OTOH supports some things not in BSD make. > > Writing complicated makefiles that are portable between different > 'make' implementations is a non-trivial task. Yes, but both BSD and GNU make are fairly portable so it's not that big of a problem. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:15:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.infowest.com (ns1.infowest.com [204.17.177.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA7437B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:15:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from there (208.186.107.222.dsl.infowest.net [208.186.107.222]) by ns1.infowest.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 26578219D4; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:15:46 -0700 (MST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Samuel J.Greear Organization: GetMegabits, Inc. To: Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:09:12 -0700 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3] Cc: Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> In-Reply-To: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020219091546.26578219D4@ns1.infowest.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Monday 18 February 2002 07:54 pm, Peter Wemm wrote: > Mike Silbersack wrote: > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Hiten Pandya wrote: > > > hi all, > > > > > > As to conclude this thread (for me.), I have come to the decision of > > > actually starting a project for making a BSD Licensed in-kernel HTTPd > > > server. The project will be on SourceForge.net. > > > > > > As you all know, that when starting a project, a name is needed for > > > project; I completely out of ideas, and I have literally no creative > > > skills. :) > > > > If you want to be really useful, I have a better first step for you. :) > > > > Common wisdom seems to be that Apache is slow, other httpds are faster, > > custom ones are fastest. However, I don't think I've actually seen any > > comparisons since this one of thttpd vs others: > > > > http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/benchmarks.html > > > > Before starting work on a kernel httpd, you might wish to run similar > > benchmarks (with perhaps only 5 different httpds) to see what the current > > performance of FreeBSD is; it may turn out that some limitation in the > > TCP stack is hit even by userland httpds, and your effort would be better > > spent on fixing that first. > > The problem is that our threads implementation sucks. The moment that > thttpd has to do an actual disk read on freebsd, the whole thing comes to a > screeching halt. > > Threaded http servers do not stand up to real-world loads on freebsd, > unless there are very specially constructred scenarios in place.. ie: > everything is in ram, no FS calls ever block, etc. > > Cheers, > -Peter I don't suppose it matters much than thttpd isn't threaded. It's a non-blocking server that uses it's own abstraction layer over select/poll/kevent called fdevent. It also maintains an mmap'd cache of frequently accessed files. Sam To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:20:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com (host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.131.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6697137B417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:20:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 248323F5; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:20:58 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:20:58 +0000 From: Dominic Marks To: Peter Wemm Cc: Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> References: <20020218134544.C48587-100000@patrocles.silby.com> <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020219025401.C1B013A9A@overcee.wemm.org>; from peter@wemm.org on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:54:01PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 06:54:01PM -0800, Peter Wemm wrote: > Mike Silbersack wrote: > > > > On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Hiten Pandya wrote: > > > > > hi all, > > > > > > As to conclude this thread (for me.), I have come to the decision of > > > actually starting a project for making a BSD Licensed in-kernel HTTPd > > > server. The project will be on SourceForge.net. > > > > > > As you all know, that when starting a project, a name is needed for > > > project; I completely out of ideas, and I have literally no creative > > > skills. :) > > > > If you want to be really useful, I have a better first step for you. :) > > > > Common wisdom seems to be that Apache is slow, other httpds are faster, > > custom ones are fastest. However, I don't think I've actually seen any > > comparisons since this one of thttpd vs others: > > > > http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/benchmarks.html > > > > Before starting work on a kernel httpd, you might wish to run similar > > benchmarks (with perhaps only 5 different httpds) to see what the current > > performance of FreeBSD is; it may turn out that some limitation in the TCP > > stack is hit even by userland httpds, and your effort would be better > > spent on fixing that first. > > The problem is that our threads implementation sucks. The moment that > thttpd has to do an actual disk read on freebsd, the whole thing comes to a > screeching halt. > > Threaded http servers do not stand up to real-world loads on freebsd, unless > there are very specially constructred scenarios in place.. ie: everything is > in ram, no FS calls ever block, etc. I don't believe tHttpd is threaded. http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/notes.html on the section regarding non-blocking I/O: "The fourth generation. One process only. No non-portable threads/LWPs. Sends multiple files concurrently using non-blocking I/O, calling select()/poll()/kqueue() to tell which ones are ready for more data. Speed is excellent. Memory use is excellent. Portability is excellent. Examples of this generation: Spinner, Open Market, and thttpd. Perhaps Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." > Cheers, > -Peter > -- > Peter Wemm - peter@FreeBSD.org; peter@yahoo-inc.com; peter@netplex.com.au > "All of this is for nothing if we don't go to the stars" - JMS/B5 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Dominic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:21:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from manor.msen.com (manor.msen.com [148.59.4.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 033D737B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:21:29 -0800 (PST) Received: (from wayne@localhost) by manor.msen.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA43826; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:21:27 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from wayne) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:21:26 -0500 From: "Michael R. Wayne" To: cjclark@alum.mit.edu Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Odd ipfw behaviour Message-ID: <20020219042126.H96593@staff.msen.com> References: <200202152309.SAA00831@manor.msen.com> <20020216004721.B36782@blossom.cjclark.org> <20020218034112.D96593@staff.msen.com> <20020218054946.W48401@blossom.cjclark.org> <20020218120117.E96593@staff.msen.com> <20020218093113.H48401@blossom.cjclark.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020218093113.H48401@blossom.cjclark.org>; from crist.clark@attbi.com on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:31:13AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 09:31:13AM -0800, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > Do these patches help? Unfortunately, I was called out of town and will not be able to get back to work with my test setup until next week. Will post update then. /\/\ \/\/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:23:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mmk.ru (ns1.mmk.ru [195.54.3.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6888337B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:22:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from antivirus.mmk.ru (sinful [161.8.100.3]) by ns.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J9LWs22325 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:21:32 +0500 (YEKT) Received: from wall.mmk.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antivirus.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J9Kgb11742 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:20:42 +0500 (ESK) Received: from wall (fw.dim.ru [1.1.1.2]) by wall.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1J9IHJ01527 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:18:17 +0500 (YEKT) Message-ID: <018b01c1b927$8c6a14b0$02010101@wall> From: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" To: Subject: Default mail.local permission Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:26:44 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0188_01C1B951.74A2CB40" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0188_01C1B951.74A2CB40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi hackers! Help me to understand next situation: # cd /usr/src # make buildworld # make installworld # make kernel /etc/rc.conf: sendmail_enable=3D"YES" After successfully install I see the next problem: Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx mail.local: lockmailbox /var/mail/other failed; = error code 75 Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx sendmail[23806]: g1FIVkB32458: = to=3D, delay=3D3+00 :28:15, xdelay=3D00:00:30, mailer=3Dlocal, pri=3D12729484, dsn=3D4.0.0, = stat=3DDeferred: local m ailer (/usr/libexec/mail.local) exited with EX_TEMPFAIL # ls -l /usr/libexec/mail.local -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local # chmod u+s /usr/libexec/mail.local # ll -l /usr/libexec/mail.local -r-sr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local After this manipulations all works fine. Why so problems? Why 1555 is not default permission ? Regards, Dmitry. ------=_NextPart_000_0188_01C1B951.74A2CB40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi hackers!
 
Help me to understand next=20 situation:
 
# cd /usr/src
# make buildworld
# make installworld
# make kernel
 
/etc/rc.conf:
sendmail_enable=3D"YES"
 
After successfully install I see = the next=20 problem:
 
Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx mail.local: = lockmailbox=20 /var/mail/other failed; error code 75
Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx = sendmail[23806]:=20 g1FIVkB32458: to=3D<other@xxx.mmk.ru>,=20 delay=3D3+00
:28:15, xdelay=3D00:00:30, mailer=3Dlocal, = pri=3D12729484, dsn=3D4.0.0,=20 stat=3DDeferred: local m
ailer (/usr/libexec/mail.local) exited with=20 EX_TEMPFAIL
 
# ls -l=20 /usr/libexec/mail.local
-r-xr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  = 20456 Feb=20 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local
 
# chmod u+s = /usr/libexec/mail.local
# ll -l /usr/libexec/mail.local
-r-sr-xr-x  1 = root  wheel  20456 Feb 15 15:10=20 /usr/libexec/mail.local
 
After this manipulations all = works=20 fine.
Why so problems? Why 1555 is not = default=20 permission ?
 
Regards,
Dmitry.
------=_NextPart_000_0188_01C1B951.74A2CB40-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:30:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from relay1.macomnet.ru (relay1.macomnet.ru [195.128.64.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EE0B37B41D for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:30:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from news1.macomnet.ru (news1.macomnet.ru [195.128.64.14]) by relay1.macomnet.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J9TxI7448831; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:29:59 +0300 (MSK) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:29:59 +0300 (MSK) From: Maxim Konovalov To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Default mail.local permission In-Reply-To: <018b01c1b927$8c6a14b0$02010101@wall> Message-ID: <20020219122904.F81379-100000@news1.macomnet.ru> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On 14:26+0500, Feb 19, 2002, Dmitry A. Bondareff wrote: > Hi hackers! > > Help me to understand next situation: > > # cd /usr/src > # make buildworld > # make installworld > # make kernel > > /etc/rc.conf: > sendmail_enable="YES" > > After successfully install I see the next problem: > > Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx mail.local: lockmailbox /var/mail/other failed; error code 75 > Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx sendmail[23806]: g1FIVkB32458: to=, delay=3+00 > :28:15, xdelay=00:00:30, mailer=local, pri=12729484, dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: local m > ailer (/usr/libexec/mail.local) exited with EX_TEMPFAIL > > # ls -l /usr/libexec/mail.local > -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local > > # chmod u+s /usr/libexec/mail.local > # ll -l /usr/libexec/mail.local > -r-sr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local > > After this manipulations all works fine. > Why so problems? Why 1555 is not default permission ? more /usr/src/UPDATING 20001020: ... More details can be found at http://people.freebsd.org/~imp/UPDATING/sendmail-20001010 ... > Regards, > Dmitry. > -- Maxim Konovalov, MAcomnet, Internet-Intranet Dept., system engineer phone: +7 (095) 796-9079, mailto:maxim@macomnet.ru To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:40:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4509A37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:40:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from blossom.cjclark.org ([12.234.91.48]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020219094002.VFZW2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@blossom.cjclark.org>; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:40:02 +0000 Received: (from cjc@localhost) by blossom.cjclark.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1J9e1C39418; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:40:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:40:01 -0800 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Default mail.local permission Message-ID: <20020219014001.Z48401@blossom.cjclark.org> References: <018b01c1b927$8c6a14b0$02010101@wall> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <018b01c1b927$8c6a14b0$02010101@wall>; from freebsd@mmk.ru on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:26:44PM +0500 X-URL: http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:26:44PM +0500, Dmitry A. Bondareff wrote: > Hi hackers! > > Help me to understand next situation: > > # cd /usr/src > # make buildworld > # make installworld > # make kernel Ugh. That's a dangerous way to go, installing world before you've installed a new kernel. [snip] > After this manipulations all works fine. > Why so problems? Why 1555 is not default permission ? Ju-ust a little behind the times. See the UPDATING from 20001020. -- Crist J. Clark | cjclark@alum.mit.edu | cjclark@jhu.edu http://people.freebsd.org/~cjc/ | cjc@freebsd.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 1:56:22 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id E102F37B416 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:56:07 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 92806 invoked by uid 1000); 19 Feb 2002 09:55:46 -0000 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:55:44 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: Pankaj Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: make in freebsd Message-ID: <20020219115544.C911@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: Pankaj , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net>; from pankaj@sarai.net on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:34:50AM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:34:50AM +0100, Pankaj wrote: > On Tuesday 19 February 2002 13:23, Erik Trulsson wrote: > > > > > No, it is a feature of the makefiles. 'Make' itself doesn't know > > anything about fetching sources and so on. > > Most of the dirty work is done in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk which is > > included by the port makefiles. >=20 > which means I can safely use a similar makefile and have it *nix specific > and also download what i need automatically. I may be asking dumb questio= ns=20 > cuz i dont know anything about Makefiles I better go RTFM <-- any links= =20 As others pointed out, you may run into portability problems with make(1) programs on different OS's. I'd suggest that you take a look at the OpenPackages project, http://www.openpackages.net/ - it seems to provide a make(1) utility, portable across many OS's and combining the best features of many make(1)'s. I am taking a look at it right now for a little project of mine that has to be portable across at least three Linux distributions, yet which I would prefer to develop under FreeBSD :) G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 This sentence contains exactly threee erors. --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjxyIR8ACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVPMeQCgreZiZ/FrXkJXG5NvXn3GqQCS GE8AoMYI1Ayg2kvHzvbFQVomqRic3tLf =1XZn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --adJ1OR3c6QgCpb/j-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 2: 2:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mmk.ru (ns1.mmk.ru [195.54.3.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3C2637B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:02:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from antivirus.mmk.ru (sinful [161.8.100.3]) by ns.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J9bKs23106; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:37:20 +0500 (YEKT) Received: from wall.mmk.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antivirus.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1J9aU612746; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:36:30 +0500 (ESK) Received: from wall (fw.dim.ru [1.1.1.2]) by wall.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1J9Y5J01951; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:34:05 +0500 (YEKT) Message-ID: <038001c1b929$c1e45950$02010101@wall> From: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" To: "Maxim Konovalov" Cc: References: <20020219122904.F81379-100000@news1.macomnet.ru> Subject: Re: Default mail.local permission Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:42:33 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Waw! Many thanks ! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maxim Konovalov" To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:29 PM Subject: Re: Default mail.local permission > On 14:26+0500, Feb 19, 2002, Dmitry A. Bondareff wrote: > > > Hi hackers! > > > > Help me to understand next situation: > > > > # cd /usr/src > > # make buildworld > > # make installworld > > # make kernel > > > > /etc/rc.conf: > > sendmail_enable="YES" > > > > After successfully install I see the next problem: > > > > Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx mail.local: lockmailbox /var/mail/other failed; error code 75 > > Feb 19 00:00:01 xxx sendmail[23806]: g1FIVkB32458: to=, delay=3+00 > > :28:15, xdelay=00:00:30, mailer=local, pri=12729484, dsn=4.0.0, stat=Deferred: local m > > ailer (/usr/libexec/mail.local) exited with EX_TEMPFAIL > > > > # ls -l /usr/libexec/mail.local > > -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local > > > > # chmod u+s /usr/libexec/mail.local > > # ll -l /usr/libexec/mail.local > > -r-sr-xr-x 1 root wheel 20456 Feb 15 15:10 /usr/libexec/mail.local > > > > After this manipulations all works fine. > > Why so problems? Why 1555 is not default permission ? > > more /usr/src/UPDATING > > 20001020: > ... > More details can be found at > http://people.freebsd.org/~imp/UPDATING/sendmail-20001010 > ... > > > Regards, > > Dmitry. > > > > -- > Maxim Konovalov, MAcomnet, Internet-Intranet Dept., system engineer > phone: +7 (095) 796-9079, mailto:maxim@macomnet.ru > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 8:11:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from kzsu.stanford.edu (KZSU.Stanford.EDU [171.66.118.90]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77F8A37B417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) Received: (from romain@localhost) by kzsu.stanford.edu (8.11.6/8.11.4) id g1JGBV404693 for hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from romain) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:11:31 -0800 (PST) From: Romain Kang Message-Id: <200202191611.g1JGBV404693@kzsu.stanford.edu> To: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: 3.2 -> 4.5 ep driver oddity Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Yesterday, I upraded an old HP Vectra (83 MHz Pentium) from FreeBSD 3.2 to 4.5. The machine had no CD-ROM so I tried to use NFS. For a long time, the machine would simply wedge after I filled in the IP config screen. Then I noticed that the NIC probed differently under 4.5 vs. 3.2. The last time the machine rebooted under 3.2, the NIC was: Jul 21 13:42:43 FOO /kernel: 1 3C5x9 board(s) on ISA found at 0x300 Jul 21 13:42:43 FOO /kernel: ep0 at 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa Jul 21 13:42:43 FOO /kernel: ep0: aui/utp/bnc[*UTP*] address 00:60:97:dc:0c:65 Under 4.5, I now get: Feb 18 16:18:43 FOO /kernel: ep0: <3Com 3C509-Combo EtherLink III> at port 0x300-0x30f irq 10 on isa0 Feb 18 16:18:43 FOO /kernel: ep0: eeprom failed to come ready. Feb 18 16:18:43 FOO last message repeated 4 times Feb 18 16:18:43 FOO /kernel: ep0: Ethernet address 00:00:00:00:00:00 ... Feb 18 16:18:44 FOO /kernel: ep1: <3Com 3C509B-Combo EtherLink III (PnP)> at port 0x210-0x21f irq 5 on isa0 Feb 18 16:18:44 FOO /kernel: ep1: Ethernet address 00:60:97:dc:0c:65 Once I figured this out and started using ep1, the upgrade succeeded, and things are now operating OK. Still, the discrepancy nags me. Anyone care to offer explanations or suggestions? Thanks, Romain Kang Disclaimer: I speak for myself alone, romain@kzsu.stanford.edu except when indicated otherwise. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 9:21: 0 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5609737B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:20:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id g1JHJx328762; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from cranford-be.eng (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id g1JHJwE0019912; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:19:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost) by cranford-be.eng (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1JHJu100163; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:19:57 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:19:56 -0800 (PST) From: Kip Macy To: Dominic Marks Cc: Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) In-Reply-To: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't > understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. > Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." As mentioned previously, due to the blocking semantics of file I/O on unix, single process servers will only provide peak throughput if everything is resident. By pre-forking, data can continued to be served if one process blocks on file I/O. Apache already handles multiple connections within a process, so it does something like this already. -Kip To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 9:37: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from excalibur.skynet.be (excalibur.skynet.be [195.238.3.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4EBA37B417 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:36:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from relay.skynet.be (adsl-84608.turboline.skynet.be [217.136.202.128]) by excalibur.skynet.be (8.11.6/8.11.6/Skynet-OUT-2.16) with SMTP id g1JHa1819944; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:36:01 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:36:01 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <200202191736.g1JHa1819944@excalibur.skynet.be> From: dolidom SUBJECT: Once your customer X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0056_013B19D3.B629D3A0" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: undisclosed-recipients:; Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0056_013B19D3.B629D3A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sponsoring This is for people who are ready for more of a challenge, a financially rewarding way of building your business onward and upward. 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+0000 From: Dominic Marks To: Kip Macy Cc: Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from kmacy@netapp.com on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:19:56AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hey, On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:19:56AM -0800, Kip Macy wrote: > > Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't > > understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. > > Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." > > As mentioned previously, due to the blocking semantics of file I/O on unix, > single process servers will only provide peak throughput if everything is > resident. By pre-forking, data can continued to be served if one process blocks > on file I/O. Apache already handles multiple connections within a process, so > it does something like this already. Yes.. but if your using non-blocking IO for both the disc and network read/writes, this no longer applies. If I understand correctly in normal operation a server like tHttpd simply blocks on kevent() and when a descriptor becomes available for servicing it handles this occurance, or occurances since a single kevent() call can return more than a single event and then goes back to blocking. Reads and writes don't block if they don't complete, you simply get another event when the descriptor becomes available again. Am I wrong? > -Kip > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message -- Dominic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 10: 0:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 021DC37B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:00:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id C158DAE27E; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:00:04 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:00:04 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Dominic Marks Cc: Kip Macy , Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG * Dominic Marks [020219 09:53] wrote: > Hey, > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:19:56AM -0800, Kip Macy wrote: > > > Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't > > > understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. > > > Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." > > > > As mentioned previously, due to the blocking semantics of file I/O on unix, > > single process servers will only provide peak throughput if everything is > > resident. By pre-forking, data can continued to be served if one process blocks > > on file I/O. Apache already handles multiple connections within a process, so > > it does something like this already. > > Yes.. but if your using non-blocking IO for both the disc and network > read/writes, this no longer applies. If I understand correctly in > normal operation a server like tHttpd simply blocks on kevent() and > when a descriptor becomes available for servicing it handles this > occurance, or occurances since a single kevent() call can return more > than a single event and then goes back to blocking. Reads and writes > don't block if they don't complete, you simply get another event when > the descriptor becomes available again. > > Am I wrong? Yes, you are wrong. Disk IO can't be done in a non-blocking manner. If the kernel doesn't have the portion of the file you wish to read in the buffer cache then the process will block waiting. There is simply nothing you can do about this other than to offload that blocking into another process context via kernel threads, posix aio or kses. -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 10: 5:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com (host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com [213.123.131.110]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1477737B416 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:05:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by host213-123-131-110.in-addr.btopenworld.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 905EA541; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:05:46 +0000 (GMT) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:05:46 +0000 From: Dominic Marks To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Kip Macy , Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020219180546.B12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org>; from bright@mu.org on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Dominic Marks [020219 09:53] wrote: > > Hey, > > > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 09:19:56AM -0800, Kip Macy wrote: > > > > Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't > > > > understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. > > > > Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." > > > > > > As mentioned previously, due to the blocking semantics of file I/O on unix, > > > single process servers will only provide peak throughput if everything is > > > resident. By pre-forking, data can continued to be served if one process blocks > > > on file I/O. Apache already handles multiple connections within a process, so > > > it does something like this already. > > > > Yes.. but if your using non-blocking IO for both the disc and network > > read/writes, this no longer applies. If I understand correctly in > > normal operation a server like tHttpd simply blocks on kevent() and > > when a descriptor becomes available for servicing it handles this > > occurance, or occurances since a single kevent() call can return more > > than a single event and then goes back to blocking. Reads and writes > > don't block if they don't complete, you simply get another event when > > the descriptor becomes available again. > > > > Am I wrong? > > Yes, you are wrong. > > Disk IO can't be done in a non-blocking manner. If the kernel doesn't > have the portion of the file you wish to read in the buffer cache > then the process will block waiting. There is simply nothing you > can do about this other than to offload that blocking into another > process context via kernel threads, posix aio or kses. > Thanks for the lesson! > -- > -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] > 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," > start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' > Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ -- Dominic To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 10:59: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58A1637B404 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:58:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from [212.238.194.207] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dFTd-0004pr-00 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:58:57 +0000 Received: from angel.raggedclown.net (angel.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.7]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [buffy]) with ESMTP id 4F11D13040 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:58:56 +0100 (CET) Received: by angel.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [angel], from userid 6002) id 2A5E022590; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:58:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:58:56 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: A question and a suggestion about loadable modules Message-ID: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, Someone suggested this may be the right list for this. - Has consideration in the loadable modules implementation been given to a module dependency facility, in the manner of "depmod" in Linux ? So that any module loaded will automagically load modules it depends on to run ? - I have reported in a PR a problem with drm_kmod from the ports. During my experiments at getting this to work I noticed diffferent behaviour when I loaded the agp module via loader.conf (or as a pseudo-device entry in the kernel configuration file), and when I loaded it via a script in /usr/local/etc/rc.d. In the first case subsequent loading of the "mga" (drm_kmod) module initialised successfuly, in the latter case it complained. This appears to show to me an unsuspected sensitivity to the point in the boot process a loadable module is loaded. Is this to be expected ? If so, then it should probably be documented. Thanks for your time. Please CC: me any reply. -- Regards Cliff Sarginson -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 11:27:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.libertysurf.net (mail.libertysurf.net [213.36.80.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2EB937B400; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:26:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from zd (212.83.191.106) by mail.libertysurf.net (5.1.053) id 3C6C79A6000D0B01; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:23:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3C6C79A6000D0B01@mail.libertysurf.net> (added by postmaster@libertysurf.fr) From: Sept Pierres To: vous <> Reply-To: Sept Pierres Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Et si c'=E9tait vrai ...?= Date: Tue, 19 feb 2002 10:28:05 +0100 Importance: normal X-Mailer: GOTO Software Sarbacane Vs P1.13b Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5682426646345761" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --5682426646345761 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --5682426646345761 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable Nouvelle page 2

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Pour en savoir d'avantage, à= propos de cette histoire hors du commun, il vous suffit simplement d'envoy= er un e-mail à l'adresse : 7pierres@wanadoo.fr
=


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--5682426646345761-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 11:30:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD6537B419 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:30:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0641.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.194.131] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dFxq-00077c-00; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:30:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3C72A7B8.DD297F4E@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:30:00 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: Dominic Marks , Kip Macy , Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Disk IO can't be done in a non-blocking manner. If the kernel doesn't > have the portion of the file you wish to read in the buffer cache > then the process will block waiting. There is simply nothing you > can do about this other than to offload that blocking into another > process context via kernel threads, posix aio or kses. On SVR4, an attempt to access a non-resident page via a non-blocking fd will result in a fault for that page being scheduled, while the call returns to the user process with an "EWOULDBLOCK". A subsequent attempt to read it gets the paged in data, and then works as expected. The poll() call takes note of these outstanding page-in requests, and uses them to satisfy poll on a readable condition, so you can e.g. attempt the read, get that it would block, and then poll on readable on the fd, to avoid buzz-looping the process. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 12:15:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from isbalham.ist.co.uk (isbalham.ist.co.uk [192.31.26.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7C0937B419 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by isbalham.ist.co.uk (8.11.1/8.11.1) with UUCP id g1JKF4T01318; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:15:04 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) Received: from [194.32.164.2] (eccles [194.32.164.2]) by seagoon.gid.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA32226; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:11:16 GMT (envelope-from rb@gid.co.uk) X-Sender: rb@194.32.164.1 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <200202190501.g1J51Di73693@ambrisko.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:11:18 +0000 To: Doug Ambrisko From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Multicast problem with sis interface? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 21:01 -0800 18/2/02, Doug Ambrisko wrote: >Bob Bishop writes: >| Seems there might be some problem with multicast on sis interfaces. >| Specifically, netatalk doesn't work right on this box through the sis >| interface but it's fine through the RealTek. >| This is the onboard interface on a K7S5A m/b, dmesg follows. Ideas, >anyone? TIA >| >| Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. >| Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 >| The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. >| FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE #1: Sun Feb 17 16:18:51 GMT 2002 > >Try -stable. I found a bug in which on receiving a frame from the >chip the chksum was included. This messed up things since the returned >packet was to big. Luigi, commited the code to fix this. No dice with last night's -STABLE. And it's definitely the interface, I've tried a variety and netatalk works with everything (including the dreaded Via Rhine) except for the onboard sis0. I suppose it's time for some comparative tcpdumping... -- Bob Bishop (0118) 977 4017 international code +44 118 rb@gid.co.uk fax (0118) 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 12:58:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF88F37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:58:17 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JKwAi16728; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:58:10 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dan) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:58:09 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question and a suggestion about loadable modules Message-ID: <20020219205809.GA18746@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 19), Cliff Sarginson said: > Hello, > Someone suggested this may be the right list for this. > > - Has consideration in the loadable modules implementation been given > to a module dependency facility, in the manner of "depmod" in Linux ? > So that any module loaded will automagically load modules it depends > on to run ? See the module(9) and MODULE_DEPEND(9) manpages. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 13:11: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ambrisko.com (adsl-64-174-51-42.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net [64.174.51.42]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4FB237B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:10:59 -0800 (PST) Received: (from ambrisko@localhost) by ambrisko.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1JLAFq02842; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:10:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ambrisko) From: Doug Ambrisko Message-Id: <200202192110.g1JLAFq02842@ambrisko.com> Subject: Re: Multicast problem with sis interface? In-Reply-To: To: Bob Bishop Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:10:15 -0800 (PST) Cc: Doug Ambrisko , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bob Bishop writes: | Hi, | | At 21:01 -0800 18/2/02, Doug Ambrisko wrote: | >Bob Bishop writes: | >| Seems there might be some problem with multicast on sis interfaces. | >| Specifically, netatalk doesn't work right on this box through the sis | >| interface but it's fine through the RealTek. | >| This is the onboard interface on a K7S5A m/b, dmesg follows. Ideas, | >anyone? TIA | >| | >| Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. | >| Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 | >| The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. | >| FreeBSD 4.5-RELEASE #1: Sun Feb 17 16:18:51 GMT 2002 | > | >Try -stable. I found a bug in which on receiving a frame from the | >chip the chksum was included. This messed up things since the returned | >packet was to big. Luigi, commited the code to fix this. | | No dice with last night's -STABLE. And it's definitely the interface, I've | tried a variety and netatalk works with everything (including the dreaded | Via Rhine) except for the onboard sis0. | | I suppose it's time for some comparative tcpdumping... Pity that would have been an easy fix. Doing tcpdump should help. I like Ethereal so I can drill down a little easier. Doug A. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 13:38:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F61337B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:38:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 3DED9AE27F; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:38:41 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:38:41 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: hackers@freebsd.org Cc: tech-kern@netbsd.org Subject: USB structure rename Message-ID: <20020219213841.GR12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I plan on committing the following delta to FreeBSD: http://www.mu.org/~bright/usb.diff The idea is to rename the structure fields within the USB ioctl range to match what's commonly used, basically the prefix is added as necessary. The main reason this came about is the 'class' field in one of the structures breaks including the file for c++ programs. There's two alternatives to the rename: 1) rename the just the one 'class' field to 'clss'. (yuck) 2) #ifdef __cplusplus the 'class' field to '_class'. (yuck) Let's not make this a larger deal than necessary so I'm really only interested in hearing from people who: a) work on the FreeBSD USB stack. b) work on the NetBSD USB stack. c) have substantial effort invested in the current scheme. I am not interested in people who think they represent those of 'c' but who actually don't have any code using the USB stack. I'd really like to maintain source compatiblity with NetBSD so let's come to some sort of agreement please? I can even do the delta for NetBSD if it will be accepted. thanks, -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 16:32: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (chiark.greenend.org.uk [212.22.195.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5500B37B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:32:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by chiark.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #2) id 16dKfp-0004ax-00 (Debian); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:31:53 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:31:53 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Cc: Julian Elischer , Hiten Pandya Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020220003153.A17250@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > I can suggest using a netgraph module for the work as it can be connected > to a netgraph ksocket node to receive the requests (jdp made all the > changes needed to allow this to be done). Another way would be to implement it as an accept filter which knows how to handle simple requests but drops anything more complicated down to a userland web server -- an unmodified Apache would be able to do the latter, since it already supports accept filters. Some way of configuring it is still needed, though... Tony. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 16:44: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (chiark.greenend.org.uk [212.22.195.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8258937B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 16:43:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by chiark.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #2) id 16dKrF-0004q6-00 (Debian); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:43:41 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:43:41 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Dominic Marks Cc: Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020220004341.A17928@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Dominic Marks > > http://www.acme.com/software/thttpd/notes.html on the section > regarding non-blocking I/O: > > "The fourth generation. One process only. No non-portable threads/LWPs. > Sends multiple files concurrently using non-blocking I/O, calling > select()/poll()/kqueue() to tell which ones are ready for more data. > Speed is excellent. Memory use is excellent. Portability is excellent. > Examples of this generation: Spinner, Open Market, and thttpd. Perhaps > Apache will switch to this method at some point. I really can't > understand why they went with that complicated pre-forking stuff. > Using non-blockijng I/O is just not that hard." Apache-2.0 will use a combination of in-process threading and pre-forking by default, but the IO architecture has some scope for adding non-blocking IO in the future. The reasons for preforking are that it makes programming server extensions much easier, especially when you consider things like database libraries that don't provide a non-blocking API, etc. (Other bits of Apache are designed to be simple, like the memory management.) Another thing in preforking's favour is that it makes the server as a whole MUCH more robust -- a child process can blow up without taking down the server -- and again this has advantages with unreliable server extensions. Tony. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 17: 1:32 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (chiark.greenend.org.uk [212.22.195.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE37E37B405 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 17:01:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from fanf by chiark.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #2) id 16dL8D-00059V-00 (Debian); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:01:13 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:01:13 +0000 From: Tony Finch To: Terry Lambert Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Dominic Marks , Kip Macy , Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020220010113.B17928@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii User-Agent: Mutt/1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <3C72A7B8.DD297F4E@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > > On SVR4, an attempt to access a non-resident page via a > non-blocking fd will result in a fault for that page > being scheduled, while the call returns to the user > process with an "EWOULDBLOCK". > > A subsequent attempt to read it gets the paged in data, > and then works as expected. > > The poll() call takes note of these outstanding page-in > requests, and uses them to satisfy poll on a readable > condition, so you can e.g. attempt the read, get that it > would block, and then poll on readable on the fd, to > avoid buzz-looping the process. How does it deal with the situation that the machine's working set has exceeded memory? If the web server is dealing with lots of concurrent connections it may have to block in poll() waiting for (say) a thousand pages to be brought in, then in the process of dealing with them after the poll() returns some of the pages may get re-used for something else making read() on a "readable" fd return EWOULDBLOCK again. But on the other hand the OS can't lock the pages in memory until they are read, since passing the fd to poll() isn't a promise to read since this may lead to DOS attacks, or alternatively processes being unexpectedly killed for hitting RLIMIT_MEMLOCK. I can't see a good way of avoiding these semantic problems without changing to a completely different kernel API like KSE. Tony. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 21:16:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sms.maxis.net.my (sms.maxis.net.my [202.75.129.129]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B91337B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:16:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail pickup service by sms.maxis.net.my with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:15:54 +0800 From: 0122622648@sms.maxis.net.my To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SMS Message from 0122622648 Message-ID: <0624e5415051422SBKPISVR01@sms.maxis.net.my> Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:15:54 +0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG SMS Message From: 0122622648, 20 Feb, 2002 13:07:36 subscribe This service was brought to you by Maxis Net and Hotlink. To find out more about our other services please visit http://www.maxis.net.my or/and http://www.activateyourlife.com.my To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 21:37: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC12237B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:37:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K5b1s41703 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:37:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id VAA258019 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:36:26 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:36:25 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi Folks, Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the reason I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. Thanks, George -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 21:46:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from intranet.ru (tcms8.intranet.ru [212.164.0.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71D2437B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:46:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from [195.151.139.2] (account ) by intranet.ru (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.4.8) with HTTP id 9970027 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:46:36 +0600 From: "Eugene Panchenko" Subject: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? To: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:46:36 +0600 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG gretings. As seen on kerneltrap.org: --- Andrew Morton: Ingo Molnar broke the ground here with his 2.2.12 patch which demonstrated that Linux could fairly easily yield task activation delays which are one to two orders of magnitude better than any competing operating system. --- is this a truth ? about "orders of magnitude" ? does FreeBSD fall under "any competing operating system"? thankyou ____________________________________________________________ óÄÅÌÁÊÔÅ ÓÅÂÅ ÐÏÄÁÒÏË - http://ngs.ru/tovar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 22: 0:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82ECD37B41D for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:00:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220060016.COMO2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:00:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA60563; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:44:29 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:44:27 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi George. There was someone recently that posted that they had some sort of remote debuging working over an ethernet (or at least that they ALMOST had it working.). I remember thinking "Cool". I have however had good success with the serial crossover cables needed for the curren serial debugger. I know of course that it's not as convenient but the serial debugger can possibly work in network debugging situations where the ethernet debugger is "too close to the action" :-) I'll see if I can find the reference in the archives... julian On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers > I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging > run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the > reason > I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends > on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. > > Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the > lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. > > Thanks, > George > > -- > George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com > NIC:GN82 > > "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" > - Benjamin Franklin > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 22: 0:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCE8E37B41B for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:00:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220060010.COKK2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:00:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA60619; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:59:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:59:41 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Eugene Panchenko Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG define a "task activation delay" and maybe we can discuss it.. it's a rather broad definition. and is that RTlinux? (which is a completly differnt kettle of fish..) On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Eugene Panchenko wrote: > gretings. >=20 > As seen on kerneltrap.org: > --- > Andrew Morton: Ingo Molnar broke the ground here with his > 2.2.12 patch which demonstrated that Linux could fairly > easily yield task activation delays which are one to two > orders of magnitude better than any competing operating > system.=20 > --- >=20 > is this a truth ? about "orders of magnitude" ? does FreeBSD > fall under "any competing operating system"? >=20 > thankyou > ____________________________________________________________ > =F3=C4=C5=CC=C1=CA=D4=C5 =D3=C5=C2=C5 =D0=CF=C4=C1=D2=CF=CB - http://ngs.= ru/tovar >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message >=20 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 22: 1:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3BE337B47A; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:01:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1K617i92370; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:01:07 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K616L76529; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:01:06 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:00:54 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20020219.230054.39877033.imp@village.org> To: kmacy@netapp.com Cc: bright@mu.org, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: References: <20020219080800.GI12136@elvis.mu.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: Kip Macy writes: : http://web.netapp.com/engineering/projects/raidv2/testing/global/ : : > : > uh, yeah.... it's not my header. : Oh duh, sorry... : If you do that then you have to modify all the files including it : correspondingly. Will putting an extern "C" { ... } around the file not fix the problem? No. It doesn't resolve the keyword that's used. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 22: 2:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rover.village.org (rover.bsdimp.com [204.144.255.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD8137B42F; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:02:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from harmony.village.org (harmony.village.org [10.0.0.6]) by rover.village.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1K62Ui92390; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:02:30 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Received: from localhost (warner@rover2.village.org [10.0.0.1]) by harmony.village.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K62TL76548; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:02:29 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from imp@village.org) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:02:17 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <20020219.230217.56563779.imp@village.org> To: bright@mu.org Cc: kmacy@netapp.com, hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, joe@FreeBSD.ORG, bde@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: usb header not c++ friendly. From: "M. Warner Losh" In-Reply-To: <20020219081644.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219080800.GI12136@elvis.mu.org> <20020219081644.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 2.1 on Emacs 21.1 / Mule 5.0 (SAKAKI) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In message: <20020219081644.GK12136@elvis.mu.org> Alfred Perlstein writes: : the #ifdef __cplusplus only kicks in when we're compiling c++ sources, : sooooooo i think it's ok, gross but ok. I'm not sure that I like it, but it certainly is precedented. X11R3 or R4 did something similar. FreeBSD has done these sorts of things in the sort term, but have tended to change the member names to not conflict over the long run. Warner To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 22:12: 8 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B17037B402 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:12:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1K6C2s41973; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:12:02 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id WAA258863; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:11:08 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202200611.WAA258863@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Julian Elischer Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:44:27 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:11:07 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Hi George. > > There was someone recently that posted that they had some sort of > remote debuging working over an ethernet (or at least that they ALMOST > had it working.). I remember thinking "Cool". I have however had good > success with the serial crossover cables needed for the curren serial > debugger. I know of course that it's not as convenient but > the serial debugger can possibly work in network debugging situations > where the ethernet debugger is "too close to the action" :-) > Actually, done right (i.e. with a little bit of shim) you can have this working and still debug the network. The nice thing about Ethernet is it's very fast. > I'll see if I can find the reference in the archives... Thanks, George -- George V. 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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Tue Feb 19 23:20:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BB8A037B400 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:20:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220072008.DDLA1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:20:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA60904; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:04:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:04:50 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > Hi George. > > There was someone recently that posted that they had some sort of > remote debuging working over an ethernet (or at least that they ALMOST > had it working.). I remember thinking "Cool". I have however had good > success with the serial crossover cables needed for the curren serial > debugger. I know of course that it's not as convenient but > the serial debugger can possibly work in network debugging situations > where the ethernet debugger is "too close to the action" :-) > > I'll see if I can find the reference in the archives... I've looked but I can't find a reference.. maybe I was dreaming.... > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 1:27:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3ED237B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:27:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dT1Y-0005Bi-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:26:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3C736BD0.73513ECB@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:26:40 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tony Finch Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Dominic Marks , Kip Macy , Peter Wemm , Mike Silbersack , Hiten Pandya , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) References: <20020220010113.B17928@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tony Finch wrote: [ ... Terry describes non-blocking I/O on page-not-present on SVR4, and how it behaves better than BSD ... ] > How does it deal with the situation that the machine's > working set has exceeded memory? If the web server is dealing > with lots of concurrent connections it may have to block in > poll() waiting for (say) a thousand pages to be brought in, > then in the process of dealing with them after the poll() > returns some of the pages may get re-used for something else > making read() on a "readable" fd return EWOULDBLOCK again. It doesn't deal with this at all. SVR4 doesn't deal with overcommit of the working set at all well. I've pointed this out many times since 1992: the SVR4 linker maps all the involved object files into the linker, and then seeks all over heck (effectively) to do the relocation and the symbol table fixup. In this process, it thrashes out all the pages for the X server (among other things, but that's the most noticeable), and you lose control of the system until the link is done. FreeBSD has a slightly less difficult time with processes which are pigs in this way, mostly because it has a unified VM and buffer cache, so the contention between the VM and buffer cache allocations is no longer there. However, a "correctly" written program, designed to exercise the code path for the degenerate case will, well... exercise the code path for the degenerate case. SVR4 dealt with this issue by throwing the CPU at it: they have modular scheduler classes, and one of the ones they provide is called "fixed", where a certain percentage of the CPU is dedicated to that task, whether it needs it or not. Thus the X server runs at a "fixed" class, and it thrashes the pages it needs back in in the time allotted to it, and the net effect is that when you move the mouse, the cursor wiggles, just like it's supposed to. This approach works for SVR4 _because_ the VM and buffer cache are not unified, and _cannot_ work for FreeBSD, because they are, since it can't attribute demand back to the demander. The correct fix for this problem is to set a high watermark for the amount of available system memory, and a high watermark per vnode. When you hit the high watermark for the system, then you are in a resource starvation situation; knowing this, then if you are asked to page a page in on a vnode, you check its page count, and, if it is over the second high watermark, then instead of taking an LRU page from the system, you steal the page from the page list on the vnode instead. The net effect of this approach is, in starvation situations (and _only_ in starvation situations!), you limit the per vnode working set size. Obviously, the VMS approach of limiting the per process working set size (via a working set quota) would be better, if you could enforce it, and if you delayed enforcement until starvation set in. But doing this per process is not possible with a unified VM and buffer cache, unless all file I/O occurs via mmap(), rather than kernel read/write calls (not possible to do, because of struct fileops, since not all vnodes are created equal in FreeBSD; sockets are a particularly problematic area). You could make this approach even more complex, in an attempt to ensure "fairness" by raising the quota on a per reference basis, but that's exploitable. If we are talking web traffic here, then the enforcement of working set size should probably take into account how close the quota is to the file size: if the quota is 800k, and the file is 801k, then it probably makes sense to give in to the process, and load the extra page to avoid thrashing. This is probably calculable as a percentage of the remaining system resources, once the system is over the high watermark, but below total starvation. Realize that the normal approach to this problem is to simply trust LRU and the locality of reference model. I don't think that anything you can think of (short of packing in more RAM) can possibly prevent at least _some_ elbow in the performance at starvation. > But on the other hand the OS can't lock the pages in memory > until they are read, since passing the fd to poll() isn't > a promise to read since this may lead to DOS attacks, or > alternatively processes being unexpectedly killed for hitting > RLIMIT_MEMLOCK. Yes. I _am_ assuming that your access model used by your application is relatively uniform. If everything doesn't go through the same access path, all bets are off. This is going to be true of any asymmetric application under resource starvation conditions, though, sho I view this as a problem og you shooting yourself in the foot: it's your foot, and you can do what you want with it, including shooting it. This should mean that it's robust in the face of a DOS attack (given that the code path is uniform), but not robust in the face of being badly implemented. I'd have to say that there, too, you have no defense, but since it's your own fault, "as ye sow, so shall ye reap". 8-). > I can't see a good way of avoiding these semantic problems > without changing to a completely different kernel API like KSE. No. A minor change in the working set management algorithm, away from a simple global LRU, and then only in the starvation case, can make a significant positive difference. Personally, I'd do a simple watermark of 90% using integer math, and then enforce a per vnode LRU policy, rather than using the global LRU table, unless the vnode is not over its quota. There's another advantage to this, in that it avoids the global LRU lock, if it starts enforcing on a per vnode basis. This would add three sysctls: 1) The global watermark level 2) The per vnode weighting algorithm selection for deriving the per vnode watermark 3) Enable/disable It would be relatively simple to make the per vnode watermark dynamic, based on the number of vnodes in use in the system, or the number of "eligible vnodes", if you want to make special exception for executables, since they must be in core in order to create demand in the first place (but by that token, the current global LRU policy is broken, since it takes no notice of executables as special entities). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 1:42:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 053AA37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:42:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dTH2-0004jo-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:42:52 -0800 Message-ID: <3C736F92.12435B7D@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:42:42 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? References: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "George V. Neville-Neil" wrote: > Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers > I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging > run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the > reason > I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends > on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. > > Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the > lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. You would need to also have J. Lemon's patch to get rid of NETISR, or your TCP/IP stack will never run. Even so, his patch does not run everything to completion (i.e. it is not the same as LRP), it only runs it up so far, and then stops. You would also need to do the transmit processing manually, which, even if you had implemented LRP, or used the LRP with the bad license, still requires seperate processing. If you were to use raw ethernet datagrams, and do the retransmit and encapsulation yourself, rather than relying on TCP for retransmit or IP for encapsulation, then you might be able to do this (see xnet in /etc/protocols). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 1:50:46 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from iguana.icir.org (iguana.icir.org [192.150.187.36]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE1ED37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:50:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rizzo@localhost) by iguana.icir.org (8.11.6/8.11.3) id g1K9oeI37106; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:50:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from rizzo) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:50:39 -0800 From: Luigi Rizzo To: Terry Lambert Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Message-ID: <20020220015039.A37037@iguana.icir.org> References: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> <3C736F92.12435B7D@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C736F92.12435B7D@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The idea was basically what you sketch at the end: implement a very simple protocol which does the encapsulation (IP+UDP probably) and retransmissions etc by itself. This is meant to be run on a dedicated interface so we can neglect security issues. I think there is a standard API for "console" devices, something like CONS_DRIVER or the like. We were just trying to figure out what the API is and what it is supposed to do. cheers luigi On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:42:42AM -0800, Terry Lambert wrote: > "George V. Neville-Neil" wrote: > > Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers > > I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging > > run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the > > reason > > I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends > > on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. > > > > Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the > > lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. > > You would need to also have J. Lemon's patch to get rid of NETISR, > or your TCP/IP stack will never run. Even so, his patch does not > run everything to completion (i.e. it is not the same as LRP), it > only runs it up so far, and then stops. > > You would also need to do the transmit processing manually, which, > even if you had implemented LRP, or used the LRP with the bad > license, still requires seperate processing. > > If you were to use raw ethernet datagrams, and do the retransmit > and encapsulation yourself, rather than relying on TCP for retransmit > or IP for encapsulation, then you might be able to do this (see xnet > in /etc/protocols). > > -- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 1:58:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E378E37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:58:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dTVg-0002wV-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:58:00 -0800 Message-ID: <3C73731E.B0339E2D@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:57:50 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Eugene Panchenko Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Eugene Panchenko wrote: > gretings. > > As seen on kerneltrap.org: > --- > Andrew Morton: Ingo Molnar broke the ground here with his > 2.2.12 patch which demonstrated that Linux could fairly > easily yield task activation delays which are one to two > orders of magnitude better than any competing operating > system. > --- > > is this a truth ? about "orders of magnitude" ? does FreeBSD > fall under "any competing operating system"? What is it? You left off the URL. Looking on the site, it's not posted to the front, and the search function does not locate the article. To answer your questions, you'll have to provide more information. A Linux patch number doesn't cut it. I expect that this is talking about exec pre-forking; if so, then yes, it can yield some minor speedup, but you should not expect much in common applications which fork and do not exec (e.g. Apache). There are a number of micro-benchmarks that could make this approach look good, though... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 2: 0:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net (gull.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.84]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A8F837B417 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:00:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0143.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.143] helo=mindspring.com) by gull.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dTXj-0003sr-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:00:07 -0800 Message-ID: <3C73739D.A0E65101@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:59:57 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Eugene Panchenko , hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > define a "task activation delay" and maybe we can discuss it.. > > it's a rather broad definition. > and is that RTlinux? (which is a completly differnt kettle of fish..) Or QLinux, or RedHat (with rvm), as opposed to the Linus version of Linux, which has an entirely different VM... Not enough information to answer the questions, and the original posting referenced doesn't seem to be there any more, anyway. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 2:57:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (rly-ip02.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E478C37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 02:57:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from logs-wc.proxy.aol.com (logs-wc.proxy.aol.com [205.188.193.5]) by rly-ip02.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.8/AOL-5.0.0) with ESMTP id FAA04154 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:56:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from blah (AC80D3ED.ipt.aol.com [172.128.211.237]) by logs-wc.proxy.aol.com (8.10.0/8.10.0) with SMTP id g1KApOu346887 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:51:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200202201051.g1KApOu346887@logs-wc.proxy.aol.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:21:51 +0100 To: hackers@freebsd.org From: eberkut Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? Organization: CNS / Minithins X-Mailer: Opera 5.11 build 904b X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Apparently-From: SinkSuffering@aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 20/02/02 10:57:50, Terry Lambert a écrit: >What is it? > >You left off the URL. Looking on the site, it's not >posted to the front, and the search function does not >locate the article. > >To answer your questions, you'll have to provide more >information. A Linux patch number doesn't cut it. > >I expect that this is talking about exec pre-forking; if >so, then yes, it can yield some minor speedup, but you >should not expect much in common applications which fork >and do not exec (e.g. Apache). There are a number of >micro-benchmarks that could make this approach look good, >though... No, the andrew morton's low latency patch (and the robert love's preempt patch) try to make the kernel himself preemptible to reduce latency. There is two different approaches : "Robert Love: The model we use is to allow the kernel to be preempted at any time when it is not locked. Under this design, when an event occurs that causes a higher priority task to become runnable, the system will preempt the current task and run the higher priority task." http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=1 http://www.tech9.net/rml/linux/ "Andrew Morton: The approach taken by these patches is basically cooperative multitasking. The developer identifies sections of long-running kernel code and changes them so that they will yield the CPU to another task if the scheduler says that it's time to do that. Most of the complexity here is in being able to back out of any locking before yielding, and in cleanly reacquiring locking state when the interrupted task resumes." http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=10 http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/schedlat.html So I think that the final question is : Is the FreeBSD kernel preemptible ? Does he compete on latency ? Is it yet another gruik hack from linux ? ;) --eberkut ex diffinientium cognitione diffiniti resultat cognitio . Prelude : http://prelude.sf.net . CNS : http://minithins.net . SpeKa : http://www.speka.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 5:35:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from fort-point-station.mit.edu (FORT-POINT-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.76]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0B2737B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:35:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from central-city-carrier-station.mit.edu (CENTRAL-CITY-CARRIER-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.72]) by fort-point-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA21705; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:35:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (MELBOURNE-CITY-STREET.MIT.EDU [18.7.21.86]) by central-city-carrier-station.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA01666; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:35:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from nerd-xing.mit.edu (NERD-XING.MIT.EDU [18.7.16.74]) by melbourne-city-street.mit.edu (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA12467; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:35:26 -0500 (EST) Received: (from petr@localhost) by nerd-xing.mit.edu (8.9.3) id IAA26221; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:35:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:35:26 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200202201335.IAA26221@nerd-xing.mit.edu> From: "Petr M. Swedock" To: pankaj@sarai.net Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-reply-to: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> (message from Pankaj on Tue, 19 Feb 2002 09:34:50 +0100) Subject: Re: make in freebsd References: <20020219093450.A13798@sarai.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG : : > : > No, it is a feature of the makefiles. 'Make' itself doesn't know : > anything about fetching sources and so on. : > Most of the dirty work is done in /usr/ports/Mk/bsd.port.mk which is : > included by the port makefiles. : : which means I can safely use a similar makefile and have it *nix specific : and also download what i need automatically. I may be asking dumb questions : cuz i dont know anything about Makefiles I better go RTFM <-- any links Make is a command generator. It's (basic) purpose is to avoid having to type 'gcc -o $foo $foo.o -DHAVETHIS -Iwherever -Iwhereverelse -Opi blah blah blah' for every *.o file in a given program and keep track of all the dependencies when compiling. But it's rather general, such that it's not picky about which commands it generates. In the instance of the FreeBSD ports, it is used to generate ftp commands. FreeBSD_cli> man make (BSD) MAKE(1) FreeBSD General Commands Manual MAKE(1) NAME make - maintain program dependencies FreeBSD_cli> man gmake (gnu make) MAKE(1L) LOCAL USER COMMANDS MAKE(1L) NAME make - GNU make utility to maintain groups of programs Peace, Petr To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 5:47:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from jodocus.org (c115139.upc-c.chello.nl [212.187.115.139]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBBBB37B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 05:47:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from joost@localhost) by jodocus.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id g1KDlOs29042 for hackers@freebsd.org; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:47:24 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from joost) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:47:23 +0100 From: Joost Bekkers To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Ethernet bridge filter: feedback wanted Message-ID: <20020220144723.A28980@bps.jodocus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hello, I've been working on some code to filter ethernet frames in the bridging code. Because this is my first real attempt in coding for the kernel, I'd appreciate any constructive comments on the code. Code and a few install instructions can be found on http://jodocus.org/ Thanks -- greetz Joost joost@jodocus.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 7:53: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6540F37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from johnport (nice-1-a7-79-229.dial.proxad.net [62.147.79.229]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F7EA181BE for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:52:31 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000501c1ba26$9d7727c0$2d2ae30a@johnport> From: "Jonathan BENSAMOUN" To: Subject: fork & launch Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:52:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi I coded a syscall which fork inside kernel and launch a new process. The unique problem I got is when the father is waiting the child process and received a sigkill signal. It freezes the system like a while (1) in kernel mode. Note that a sigkill to the child process does not matter at all. It ts when the parent process (which did the syscall) receive a kill signal. Thanks John To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 7:53:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C2C37B400; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 07:53:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18131; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:53:03 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1KFqXF62239; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:52:33 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:52:33 -0500 (EST) To: sos@freebsd.org Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a few machines with the following ata controller: atapci0@pci0:15:1: class=0x01018a card=0x00000000 chip=0x02111166 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 vendor = 'Reliance Computer Corp./ServerWorks' device = 'OSB4 PCI EIDE Controller' class = mass storage subclass = ATA They're dual-boot FreeeBSD/linux boxes. After loosing 2 filesystems in linux, I did a web search and I found that linux has a problem with data corruption when using these controllers & disabled IDE DMA in linux. Thinking that FreeBSD was immune (these boxes spend 90% of their time in FreeBSD doing driver development & crashing frequently, haven't lost a fs yet), I continued to run the disk at UDMA33 in FreeBSD. However, I began to notice very minor data corruption when I attempted to buildworld them from 4.4-RELEASE to 4.5-STABLE. By minor, I mean syntax errors in files caused by 4 characters moved a few lines up or down in a file, things like that. I concluded that FreeBSD might not be immune after all and switched to PIO. After checking out a new src tree, the problem seems to be gone and I'm able to buildworld. Do you think it would be wise to disable DMA by default on these chips? Cheers, Drew PS: Here's a dmesg Copyright (c) 1992-2002 The FreeBSD Project. Copyright (c) 1979, 1980, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 1992, 1993, 1994 The Regents of the University of California. All rights reserved. FreeBSD 4.5-STABLE #2: Wed Feb 20 09:33:56 EST 2002 gallatin@ugly:/usr/src/sys/compile/SMP Timecounter "i8254" frequency 1193182 Hz CPU: Pentium III/Pentium III Xeon/Celeron (999.53-MHz 686-class CPU) Origin = "GenuineIntel" Id = 0x68a Stepping = 10 Features=0x383fbff real memory = 536805376 (524224K bytes) avail memory = 517681152 (505548K bytes) Programming 16 pins in IOAPIC #0 IOAPIC #0 intpin 2 -> irq 0 Programming 16 pins in IOAPIC #1 FreeBSD/SMP: Multiprocessor motherboard cpu0 (BSP): apic id: 0, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 cpu1 (AP): apic id: 1, version: 0x00040011, at 0xfee00000 io0 (APIC): apic id: 4, version: 0x000f0011, at 0xfec00000 io1 (APIC): apic id: 5, version: 0x000f0011, at 0xfec01000 Preloaded elf kernel "kernel" at 0xc0488000. Pentium Pro MTRR support enabled md0: Malloc disk Using $PIR table, 9 entries at 0xc00f5250 npx0: on motherboard npx0: INT 16 interface pcib0: on motherboard IOAPIC #1 intpin 15 -> irq 2 IOAPIC #0 intpin 10 -> irq 5 pci0: on pcib0 fxp0: port 0xd800-0xd83f mem 0xfc800000-0xfc8fffff,0xfc9fe000-0xfc9fefff irq 2 at device 6.0 on pci0 fxp0: Ethernet address 00:30:48:21:e4:47 inphy0: on miibus0 inphy0: 10baseT, 10baseT-FDX, 100baseTX, 100baseTX-FDX, auto isab0: at device 15.0 on pci0 isa0: on isab0 atapci0: port 0xffa0-0xffaf at device 15.1 on pci0 ata0: at 0x1f0 irq 14 on atapci0 ata1: at 0x170 irq 15 on atapci0 ohci0: mem 0xfc9ff000-0xfc9fffff irq 5 at device 15.2 on pci0 usb0: OHCI version 1.0, legacy support usb0: on ohci0 usb0: USB revision 1.0 uhub0: (unknown) OHCI root hub, class 9/0, rev 1.00/1.00, addr 1 uhub0: 4 ports with 4 removable, self powered pcib1: on motherboard IOAPIC #1 intpin 8 -> irq 9 IOAPIC #1 intpin 10 -> irq 10 pci1: on pcib1 pci1: at 1.0 irq 9 pci1: (vendor=0x14c1, dev=0x8043) at 2.0 irq 10 orm0:
Hi hackers!
 
Help to understand why my rc.conf = system do=20 not want to use more ?
 
Before last reboot I make = next:
 
#cp /usr/src/etc/defaults/rc.conf = /etc/defaults/rc.conf
# reboot
 
What's happen ??
 
I've tried to copy = /etc/defaults/rc.conf from=20 another workable computer - no reason!
 
Regards,
Dmitry.
------=_NextPart_000_0071_01C1BA5C.E562CEA0-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 9:48:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from repulse.cnchost.com (repulse.concentric.net [207.155.248.4]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD40137B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by repulse.cnchost.com id MAA01255; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:48:04 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200202201748.MAA01255@repulse.cnchost.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:04:50 PST." Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:04 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > Hi George. > > > > There was someone recently that posted that they had some sort of > > remote debuging working over an ethernet (or at least that they ALMOST > > had it working.). I remember thinking "Cool". I have however had good > > success with the serial crossover cables needed for the curren serial > > debugger. I know of course that it's not as convenient but > > the serial debugger can possibly work in network debugging situations > > where the ethernet debugger is "too close to the action" :-) > > > > I'll see if I can find the reference in the archives... > > I've looked but I can't find a reference.. > maybe I was dreaming.... This is the way we did it: - add a low level console device that sends & receives ethernet packets of special ether type. Packets are sent to an ethernet multicast address (N). - we enhanced if_ethersubr.c to deal with packets of this type (when addressed to the local machine) - if a console packet is received, it is unpacked and chars from it are interpreted normally. - Interrupts were disabled only while there were outstanding chars to send out or while receivied chars were being processed. - at compile time we hardwired a particular ethernet driver to act as console. - on the remote machine a program can be run that watches for enet dest.addr==N and src.addr==M (machine whose console we are interested in). This program extracts chars from packets from the host M and displays them to /dev/fd/1 and packages up chars from /dev/fd/0 and sends them to enet dest addr==M. This gives you in effect a remote console. You can exit out of the program using cu like commands (. in first column). Among other things this allowed you to use ddb remotely. - To connect to a particular machine from the remote console program we either used its ethernet address directly or via /etc/ethers. - the same program can optionally open a pty and start up gdb (or a debugger of your choice). Basically it just fork-execed a specified program. Use of ethernet multicast allowed us to access the console from any directly connected machine. By not using IP we avoided dealing with a bunch of issues and depended on fewer things that had to work right. Of course, security is compromised. But this is a given if anyone can run gdb remotely in any case. I may have forgotten a few things but this is the gist of how it worked. Credit for all this work goes to someone else. We had meant to give this back to the FreeBSD community but didn't get around to it in time and now it is not possible. -- bakul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:20:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9203737B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:20:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220182014.IOCO2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:20:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63321; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:10:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:10:54 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Terry Lambert Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <3C736F92.12435B7D@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG using tcp for this is I think wrong.. Use UDP or maybe even an special protocol on IP. On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > "George V. Neville-Neil" wrote: > > Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers > > I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging > > run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the > > reason > > I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends > > on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. > > > > Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the > > lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. > > You would need to also have J. Lemon's patch to get rid of NETISR, > or your TCP/IP stack will never run. Even so, his patch does not > run everything to completion (i.e. it is not the same as LRP), it > only runs it up so far, and then stops. > > You would also need to do the transmit processing manually, which, > even if you had implemented LRP, or used the LRP with the bad > license, still requires seperate processing. > > If you were to use raw ethernet datagrams, and do the retransmit > and encapsulation yourself, rather than relying on TCP for retransmit > or IP for encapsulation, then you might be able to do this (see xnet > in /etc/protocols). > > -- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:37:16 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9FB337B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:37:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1KIb6s51132; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:37:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id KAA337017; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:35:18 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202201835.KAA337017@meer.meer.net> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: Julian Elischer Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:10:54 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:35:17 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Folks, Thanks for all the helpful hints. Depending on what I find when I look at how DDB/GDB work now I will probably do the following: A) Use UDP/IP as the transport. Reasons: 1) Easy to write a very minimal, outside the stack, IP/UDP layer. 2) Allows debugging through routers, and in test labs. Makes setting up a real test lab much easier. 3) Makes name to address mapping trivial (you give the machine a name in DNS and you can have your client debugger find it easily). B) Make the back end pluggable (if it is not) Reasons: 1) Allows people to write other back ends and use an IP thingy over it. (Think NetROM, JTAG and other embedded systems and board bring up stuff). Now, if someone could point me to the files that implement the serial line debugging in -CURRENT and perhaps tell me the last person who worked on that that would be great. I'm trying not to make this a big deal, but I also want to make sure that what I do is extensible and generally useful. Thanks, George PS I've got Jonathan Lemon talking to me about this stuff independently as well. -- George V. Neville-Neil gnn@neville-neil.com NIC:GN82 "Those who would trade liberty for temporary security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:40:34 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B758637B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:40:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220184023.OKWW1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:40:23 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63399; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:31:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:31:14 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Bakul Shah Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <200202201748.MAA01255@repulse.cnchost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Bakul Shah wrote: > > I may have forgotten a few things but this is the gist of how > it worked. Credit for all this work goes to someone else. > We had meant to give this back to the FreeBSD community but > didn't get around to it in time and now it is not possible. Why not? (curiosity, not disbelief) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:40:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38FE337B419 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:40:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220184017.OKUM1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:40:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA63373; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:20:53 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:20:52 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Jonathan BENSAMOUN Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: fork & launch In-Reply-To: <000501c1ba26$9d7727c0$2d2ae30a@johnport> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG 1/ can you say whay you want to do this? 2/ check the code that creates kernel threads, (kthread_create()) On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Jonathan BENSAMOUN wrote: > Hi > I coded a syscall which fork inside kernel and launch a new process. > The unique problem I got is when the father is waiting the child process > and received a sigkill signal. It freezes the system like a while (1) in > kernel mode. > Note that a sigkill to the child process does not matter at all. > It ts when the parent process (which did the syscall) receive a kill signal. > > Thanks > John > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:50:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from goliath.cnchost.com (goliath.cnchost.com [207.155.252.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EC6E37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:50:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by goliath.cnchost.com id NAA00440; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:50:12 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200202201850.NAA00440@goliath.cnchost.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Bakul Shah , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:31:14 PST." Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:50:11 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > We had meant to give this back to the FreeBSD community but > > didn't get around to it in time and now it is not possible. > > Why not? (curiosity, not disbelief) The company got sold before we could sort all this out and a bunch of the original people no longer work there. Actually anything is possible and I will try to rattle some cages but don't hold your breath. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 10:52:33 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from goliath.cnchost.com (goliath.cnchost.com [207.155.252.47]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 936AD37B417 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:52:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by goliath.cnchost.com id NAA04945; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:51:59 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200202201851.NAA04945@goliath.cnchost.com> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Bakul Shah , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:31:14 PST." Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:51:58 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Forgot to add: this is a pretty straight forward thing to do and anyone can hack it together in a few days especially when you have a functional spec of a sort! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 11: 9:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-11.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBB8437B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:09:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [212.238.194.207] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dc71-000FTF-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:09:07 +0000 Received: from angel.raggedclown.net (angel.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.7]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [buffy]) with ESMTP id 7B44D13040 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:06 +0100 (CET) Received: by angel.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [angel], from userid 6002) id 43BE722590; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:06 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:06 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question and a suggestion about loadable modules Message-ID: <20020220190906.GJ3600@raggedclown.net> References: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> <20020219205809.GA18746@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020219205809.GA18746@dan.emsphone.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:58:09PM -0600, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Feb 19), Cliff Sarginson said: > > Hello, > > Someone suggested this may be the right list for this. > > > > - Has consideration in the loadable modules implementation been given > > to a module dependency facility, in the manner of "depmod" in Linux ? > > So that any module loaded will automagically load modules it depends > > on to run ? > > See the module(9) and MODULE_DEPEND(9) manpages. > Ok, well the facility exists I see. Is it used ? -- Regards Cliff Sarginson -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 11:11:17 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5235637B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0120.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.192.120] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dc8t-0002Lt-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:11:03 -0800 Message-ID: <3C73F4BD.51C1C23C@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:10:53 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: eberkut Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? References: <200202201051.g1KApOu346887@logs-wc.proxy.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG eberkut wrote: > No, the andrew morton's low latency patch (and the robert > love's preempt patch) try to make the kernel himself > preemptible to reduce latency. There is two different > approaches : Uh, neither one of these is Ingo Molnar. 8-). > > "Robert Love: The model we use is to allow the kernel to be > preempted at any time when it is not locked. Under this > design, when an event occurs that causes a higher priority > task to become runnable, the system will preempt the current > task and run the higher priority task." > > http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=1 > http://www.tech9.net/rml/linux/ Supposedly, JMB's P4 code does this. > "Andrew Morton: The approach taken by these patches is > basically cooperative multitasking. The developer identifies > sections of long-running kernel code and changes them so that > they will yield the CPU to another task if the scheduler says > that it's time to do that. Most of the complexity here is in > being able to back out of any locking before yielding, and in > cleanly reacquiring locking state when the interrupted task > resumes." > > http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=10 > http://www.zip.com.au/~akpm/linux/schedlat.html This is the approach we took in NetWare 4.x. It's inherently non-SMP scalable, since it makes the assumption that once a resource is obtained, the act of obtaining the resource blocks other threads from obtaining it; obviously, resources can not be held across a yield, unless they are locked. The way NetWare "scales" for SMP is by running multiple NLM instances, one per CPU, to make up for this deficiency. > So I think that the final question is : Is the FreeBSD kernel > preemptible ? Does he compete on latency ? Is it yet another > gruik hack from linux ? ;) Preemptible: yes, if you run a developement kernel (i.e. Linux is doing the same thing FreeBSD has been doing here). Compete on latency: it depends on what you mean. FreeBSD has fast interrupt handlers, which are different from standard interrupt handlers, and it has delayed thread creation, until absolutely necessary (sometimes it's not necessary at all), so threading context switch overhead in FreeBSD is significantly lower than that of Linux. It's also on track for implicit CPU affinity and thread group affinity, which means that it should end up having significantly less scheduler overhead than Linux (more like Dynix or IRIX). I think at this point, you are comparing apples and oranges. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 11:43:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from dan.emsphone.com (dan.emsphone.com [199.67.51.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4CF37B633 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:42:44 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dan@localhost) by dan.emsphone.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KJgeP29833; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:42:40 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dan) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:42:40 -0600 From: Dan Nelson To: Cliff Sarginson Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question and a suggestion about loadable modules Message-ID: <20020220194240.GC4350@dan.emsphone.com> References: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> <20020219205809.GA18746@dan.emsphone.com> <20020220190906.GJ3600@raggedclown.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020220190906.GJ3600@raggedclown.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i X-OS: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT X-message-flag: Outlook Error Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In the last episode (Feb 20), Cliff Sarginson said: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:58:09PM -0600, Dan Nelson wrote: > > In the last episode (Feb 19), Cliff Sarginson said: > > > Hello, > > > Someone suggested this may be the right list for this. > > > > > > - Has consideration in the loadable modules implementation been given > > > to a module dependency facility, in the manner of "depmod" in Linux ? > > > So that any module loaded will automagically load modules it depends > > > on to run ? > > > > See the module(9) and MODULE_DEPEND(9) manpages. > > > Ok, well the facility exists I see. > Is it used ? Yes. $ cd /sys $ grep MODULE_DEPEND **/*.c | wc -l 137 $ NIC drivers sometimes require miibus, USB drivers require usb, SCSI card drivers require cam, etc. -- Dan Nelson dnelson@allantgroup.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 11:53:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (fw-rl0.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 782B537B400; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:53:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KJrKq77437; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:53:20 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> To: Andrew Gallatin Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:53:20 +0100 (CET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: sos@freebsd.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Andrew Gallatin wrote: > I have a few machines with the following ata controller: > > atapci0@pci0:15:1: class=0x01018a card=0x00000000 chip=0x02111166 rev=0x00 hdr=0x00 > They're dual-boot FreeeBSD/linux boxes. After loosing 2 filesystems in > linux, I did a web search and I found that linux has a problem with > data corruption when using these controllers & disabled IDE DMA in linux. > > Thinking that FreeBSD was immune (these boxes spend 90% of their time > in FreeBSD doing driver development & crashing frequently, haven't > lost a fs yet), I continued to run the disk at UDMA33 in FreeBSD. > > However, I began to notice very minor data corruption when I attempted > to buildworld them from 4.4-RELEASE to 4.5-STABLE. By minor, I mean > syntax errors in files caused by 4 characters moved a few lines up or > down in a file, things like that. I concluded that FreeBSD might not > be immune after all and switched to PIO. After checking out a new src > tree, the problem seems to be gone and I'm able to buildworld. > > Do you think it would be wise to disable DMA by default on these chips? Hmm, the problem is known, but belived to be fixed *IF* your BIOS setup things the right way. I've newer seen the problem on my ASUS CUR-DLS, but I have several reports of TYAN's (forgot the model#) that fails all over. I have not verified if ASUS has done some HW trickery or if its just a BIOS matter. However the Serverworks ROSB4 chips is not one I would recommend using, if you need serious ATA support on such a board, install a Promise TX2 or later or a HPT370 or later ... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 12: 3:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from post.mail.nl.demon.net (post-10.mail.nl.demon.net [194.159.73.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F9737B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:03:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [212.238.194.207] (helo=mailhost.raggedclown.net) by post.mail.nl.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dcxY-0007b6-00 for freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:03:24 +0000 Received: from angel.raggedclown.net (angel.raggedclown.intra [192.168.1.7]) by mailhost.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Mail Gateway [buffy]) with ESMTP id 02CEB13040 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:03:23 +0100 (CET) Received: by angel.raggedclown.net (Ragged Clown Host [angel], from userid 6002) id B624C22590; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:03:23 +0100 (CET) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:03:23 +0100 From: Cliff Sarginson To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: A question and a suggestion about loadable modules Message-ID: <20020220200323.GB5722@raggedclown.net> References: <20020219185856.GB1191@raggedclown.net> <20020219205809.GA18746@dan.emsphone.com> <20020220190906.GJ3600@raggedclown.net> <20020220194240.GC4350@dan.emsphone.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020220194240.GC4350@dan.emsphone.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 01:42:40PM -0600, Dan Nelson wrote: > In the last episode (Feb 20), Cliff Sarginson said: > > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:58:09PM -0600, Dan Nelson wrote: > > > In the last episode (Feb 19), Cliff Sarginson said: > > > > Hello, > > > > Someone suggested this may be the right list for this. > > > > > > > > - Has consideration in the loadable modules implementation been given > > > > to a module dependency facility, in the manner of "depmod" in Linux ? > > > > So that any module loaded will automagically load modules it depends > > > > on to run ? > > > > > > See the module(9) and MODULE_DEPEND(9) manpages. > > > > > Ok, well the facility exists I see. > > Is it used ? > > Yes. > > $ cd /sys > $ grep MODULE_DEPEND **/*.c | wc -l > 137 > $ > > NIC drivers sometimes require miibus, USB drivers require usb, SCSI > card drivers require cam, etc. > So why, for example, if you say need a NIC driver that requires miibus, do you have to specify loading of miibus..this is really at the bottom of my question. Shouldn't a module dependency system load the required drivers first ? The reason this popped up in my mind, as I think I mentioned, is that the port drm-kmod, for DRI on certain cards, is meaningless without the "agp" module being loaded. So why doesn't kldload (I suppose I mean the program rather than the system call) work all this out ? Am I being dumb ? -- Regards Cliff Sarginson -- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 12:26:28 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2916237B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:26:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA27290; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:26:24 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1KKPsZ64184; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:25:54 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: <15476.1618.379112.915616@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:25:54 -0500 (EST) To: sos@freebsd.dk Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> References: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG S=F8ren Schmidt writes: >=20 > Hmm, the problem is known, but belived to be fixed *IF* your BIOS > setup things the right way. I've newer seen the problem on my > ASUS CUR-DLS, but I have several reports of TYAN's (forgot the model= #) > that fails all over. I have not verified if ASUS has done some HW > trickery or if its just a BIOS matter. However the Serverworks > ROSB4 chips is not one I would recommend using, if you need serious > ATA support on such a board, install a Promise TX2 or later or a > HPT370 or later ... I don't much care about serious ATA support on these machines -- nearly all work is done on NFS volumes exported from an alpha. If I can just trust PIO not to corrupt the system disk, then it will be fine for me. So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? Thanks, Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 12:58:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6189A37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:58:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0067.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.67] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ddoi-0002lb-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:58:21 -0800 Message-ID: <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:58:10 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: sos@freebsd.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption References: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> <15476.1618.379112.915616@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Gallatin wrote: > S=F8ren Schmidt writes: > > However the Serverworks > > ROSB4 chips is not one I would recommend using, if you need serious > > ATA support on such a board, install a Promise TX2 or later or a > > HPT370 or later ... > = > I don't much care about serious ATA support on these machines -- Apparently, neither does the chip vendor. 8-p. > nearly all work is done on NFS volumes exported from an alpha. If I > can just trust PIO not to corrupt the system disk, then it will be > fine for me. > = > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor apparently does not default the chip into that state. FWIW, Julian had to fix a similar problem by programming the heck out of a Cyrix MediaGX chipset via a custom BIOS. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13: 6:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A000737B417 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA28589; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:06:38 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1KL68r66176; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:06:08 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15476.4032.768679.823788@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:06:08 -0500 (EST) To: Terry Lambert Cc: sos@freebsd.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> References: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> <15476.1618.379112.915616@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? > > He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly > by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but > apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" > (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor > apparently does not default the chip into that state. I was asking a more general question about ATA -- I know that UDMA has has some sort of CRC protection because (on other machines) I've seen the occasional error about a bad CRC, retrying. But what I don't know is if PIO offers the same protection. Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13: 7:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.kks.net (sonic.kks.net [213.161.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BDF337B41D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:07:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from voyager.kksonline.com (5-51.ro.cable.kks.net [213.161.5.51]) by sonic.kks.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C35139; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:07:17 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> X-Sender: arozman@ 213.161.0.10 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:48:55 +0100 To: "Danny J. Zerkel" From: Aleksander Rozman - Andy Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200202180440.g1I4eHb13180@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 18.2.2002, you wrote: >On Sunday 17 February 2002 11:12, Robert Withrow wrote: > > Hi: > > > > I was wondering if there was anyone working on getting ClearCase working > > on FreeBSD? > > > > It seems that if we can get the Linux version of VmWare to run on FreeBSD > > it should be possible to get the Linux version of ClearCase to run on > > FreeBSD, but maybe I'm just dreamin'? > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM > >How much of ClearCase are you trying to get working? Snapshot views might >be possible, given they don't use the mvfs filesystem. Dynamic views are >probably hopeless without support from Rational. > >The amount of stuggle that is evidenced on the ClearCase International User's >Group mailing list about getting ClearCase to work with Linux, does not bode >well for this effort. Even though there are a few versions of Linux that are >supported by Rational. Note here. As I remember version 4.x works on linux (I am sure for RedHat, but not others). So if it works for RH it should for other too.... As for views, I think that only Snapshot worked. Why don't you use CVSUp, or are you dependent on your company?? Andy ************************************************************************** * Aleksander Rozman - Andy * Fandoms: E2:EA, SAABer, Trekkie, Earthie * * andy@kksonline.com * Sentinel, BH 90210, True's Trooper, * * andy@atechnet.dhs.org * Heller's Angel, Questie, Legacy, PO5, * * Maribor, Slovenia (Europe) * Profiler, Buffy (Slayerete), Pretender * * ICQ-UIC: 4911125 ********************************************* * PGP key available * http://www.atechnet.dhs.org/~andy/ * ************************************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:19:25 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A7B137B426 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:18:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0067.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.67] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16de8I-0004Td-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:18:35 -0800 Message-ID: <3C74129F.D8A12732@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:18:23 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: sos@freebsd.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption References: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> <15476.1618.379112.915616@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> <15476.4032.768679.823788@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Gallatin wrote: > Terry Lambert writes: > > > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? > > > > He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly > > by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but > > apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" > > (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor > > apparently does not default the chip into that state. > > I was asking a more general question about ATA -- I know that UDMA has > has some sort of CRC protection because (on other machines) I've seen > the occasional error about a bad CRC, retrying. But what I don't know > is if PIO offers the same protection. PIO is safe. The problem with ATA DMA needing the CRC is to recover from the case where the DMA is aborted in the middle, which is not signalled (this was the problem with the CMD640B ATA chipset interface on Intel). In fact, you might want to try enabling the CMD640B workaround on your system, even though it is not probing a CMD640B present, and see if that fixes it (the chipset in question might be using the same macrocell in its implementation, or it might just be similarly buggy). If that worked, then you could leave the DMA enabled. PIO makes the host CPU do the work... basically, it's like a WinModem, only for ATA interfaces, and it's documented. 8-(. Actually, now that I think about it, using the main CPU and doinf PIO might be better anyway, given the speed difference between the main CPU and the DMA engine on the ATA chip; the overall performance may even be up to 2x better using the host CPU to do the work, particularly if you special case the transfer alignment, the way bcopy does. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:20:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E03337B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220212009.NOKX2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:20:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA64102; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:16:06 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:16:06 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Terry Lambert Cc: Andrew Gallatin , sos@freebsd.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Terry Lambert wrote: > > FWIW, Julian had to fix a similar problem by programming > the heck out of a Cyrix MediaGX chipset via a custom > BIOS. *snort* (wakes up).. wha? wha? what is the problem? The one I had to program around was bad DMA for transfers not on a 16 byte boundary.. (and something else I forgot) > > -- Terry > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:20:42 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B677437B422 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:20:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220212020.NOOO2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:20:20 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA64117; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:18:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:18:42 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Andrew Gallatin Cc: Terry Lambert , sos@freebsd.dk, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <15476.4032.768679.823788@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG basically yes. there is a CRC on the disk block right? On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? > > > > He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly > > by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but > > apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" > > (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor > > apparently does not default the chip into that state. > > I was asking a more general question about ATA -- I know that UDMA has > has some sort of CRC protection because (on other machines) I've seen > the occasional error about a bad CRC, retrying. But what I don't know > is if PIO offers the same protection. > > Drew > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:33:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A5937B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:33:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA29619; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:33:37 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1KLX7566238; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:33:07 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15476.5651.117914.794606@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:33:07 -0500 (EST) To: Terry Lambert Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <3C74129F.D8A12732@mindspring.com> References: <15475.50753.252494.269972@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> <15476.1618.379112.915616@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3C740DE2.B028B5A5@mindspring.com> <15476.4032.768679.823788@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> <3C74129F.D8A12732@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert writes: > Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? > > > > > > He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly > > > by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but > > > apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" > > > (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor > > > apparently does not default the chip into that state. > > > > I was asking a more general question about ATA -- I know that UDMA has > > has some sort of CRC protection because (on other machines) I've seen > > the occasional error about a bad CRC, retrying. But what I don't know > > is if PIO offers the same protection. > > PIO is safe. The problem with ATA DMA needing the CRC is > to recover from the case where the DMA is aborted in the > middle, which is not signalled (this was the problem with > the CMD640B ATA chipset interface on Intel). Or marginal cables, I'd assume. > In fact, you might want to try enabling the CMD640B workaround > on your system, even though it is not probing a CMD640B > present, and see if that fixes it (the chipset in question > might be using the same macrocell in its implementation, or > it might just be similarly buggy). If that worked, then you > could leave the DMA enabled. Ick. No thanks. > PIO makes the host CPU do the work... basically, it's like a > WinModem, only for ATA interfaces, and it's documented. 8-(. > > Actually, now that I think about it, using the main CPU and > doinf PIO might be better anyway, given the speed difference > between the main CPU and the DMA engine on the ATA chip; the > overall performance may even be up to 2x better using the > host CPU to do the work, particularly if you special case > the transfer alignment, the way bcopy does. Not without write combining, at least, and PIO reads suck for x86s almost universally. To add insult to injury, most revs of this chip have a well known PIO corruption bug when write combining is enabled. Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:42: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD95437B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020220214030.TGOM1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:40:30 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA64170; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:24:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:24:07 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Aleksander Rozman - Andy Cc: "Danny J. Zerkel" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Aleksander Rozman - Andy wrote: > > Note here. As I remember version 4.x works on linux (I am sure for RedHat, > but not others). So if it works for RH it should for other too.... As for > views, I think that only Snapshot worked. > Why don't you use CVSUp, or are you dependent on your company?? > We used CLearcase at TFS for a while.. (they may still do so) but to tell you the truth I'd far rather use CVS. Clearcase is too damned smart for it's own good. It does things behind your back that are not intuitive to the average developer. I once had it totoally crap out on me because it ran out of disk space on some machine I'd never heard of, and had for some reason decided to include in my build for a reason that was unclear to me.. Last I heard it didn't run to well if disconnected form the hive either. There are companies that demand it though so if we could get it going that would be cool, but they have their own "dodgy" filesystem thingy that intercepts filesystem calls somehow. that could be a sticking point. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 13:54:27 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (fw-rl0.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5988E37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:54:23 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1KLsJ207746; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:54:19 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <200202202154.g1KLsJ207746@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: Serverworks ATA controller & data corruption In-Reply-To: <3C74129F.D8A12732@mindspring.com> To: Terry Lambert Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:54:19 +0100 (CET) Cc: Andrew Gallatin , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: sos@freebsd.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Terry Lambert wrote: > Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Terry Lambert writes: > > > > So.. Is PIO safe? Is there any sort of CRC being done on PIO data? > > > > > > He just said: if your chipset is programmed correctly > > > by the BIOS, then there will not be a problem, but > > > apparently, there is a very narrow band of "correctly" > > > (perhaps even only a single state), and the vendor > > > apparently does not default the chip into that state. > > > > I was asking a more general question about ATA -- I know that UDMA has > > has some sort of CRC protection because (on other machines) I've seen > > the occasional error about a bad CRC, retrying. But what I don't know > > is if PIO offers the same protection. > > PIO is safe. The problem with ATA DMA needing the CRC is > to recover from the case where the DMA is aborted in the > middle, which is not signalled (this was the problem with > the CMD640B ATA chipset interface on Intel). Wrong, PIO is not safe, there is no checks whatsoever on the data, only UDMA modes have CRC performed. > Actually, now that I think about it, using the main CPU and > doinf PIO might be better anyway, given the speed difference > between the main CPU and the DMA engine on the ATA chip; the > overall performance may even be up to 2x better using the > host CPU to do the work, particularly if you special case > the transfer alignment, the way bcopy does. PIO is always slower than DMA... -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 14: 9:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp01.wxs.nl (smtp01.wxs.nl [195.121.6.61]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CB9437B405; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:09:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from there ([80.60.248.65]) by smtp01.wxs.nl (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GRUQV400.P3R; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:09:04 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Peter J. Blok" To: freebsd-net@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: if_wb driver problem - need help Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:09:04 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-Id: <20020220220906.7CB9437B405@hub.freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have a Winbond based card with an Altima AC104 media interface. No matter what I do i am not able to recognize the AC104 through the SIO interface. The BMSR register value stays at zero. I have the datasheets of both the Winbond and the Altima and everything looks ok. So far i see the frame to request the contents of the bmsr C24 is send ok to the AC10t thru the management interface. The ACK is never coming. Who has tips trying to make this thing work? I have also tried NetBSD without success. Peter To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 14:32:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com [12.13.237.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1E8A37B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from blv-av-02.boeing.com ([192.54.3.92]) by slb-smtpout-01.boeing.com (8.9.2/8.8.5-M2) with ESMTP id OAA08967 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:31:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from slb-hub-01.boeing.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by blv-av-02.boeing.com (8.9.3/8.9.2/MBS-AV-01) with ESMTP id OAA27754 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from XCH-SEBH-01.se.nos.boeing.com (xch-sebh-01.se.nos.boeing.com [130.122.201.45]) by slb-hub-01.boeing.com (8.11.3/8.11.3/MBS-LDAP-01) with ESMTP id g1KMWpT00348 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:32:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by XCH-SEBH-01.se.nos.boeing.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <18X0TPZ2>; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:33:21 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Lane, Frank L" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Posix question Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:49 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi List, I'm facing a serial write problem. Posix provides a function tcdrain () that blocks until all serial data has been written from the card. Is there an analogous function in the gnu c compiler for windows platforms? Does the gnu c compiler try to give you posix functionality within the windows environment? Thank you for any help you'll offer. -- The opinions expressed in this email are solely those of the originator and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of The Boeing Company or Marshall Space Flight Center. Frank L. Lane frank.l.lane@boeing.com work: 256.961.4677 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 15:37: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from penfold.transactionware.com (penfold.transactionware.com [203.14.245.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A829C37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:36:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 51304 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2002 23:36:16 -0000 Received: from ck.transactionware.com (192.168.1.17) by penfold.transactionware.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 23:36:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 5450 invoked by uid 1006); 20 Feb 2002 23:45:56 -0000 Received: from janm@transactionware.com by ck.transactionware.com with qmail-scanner-0.96 (sweep: 2.4/3.46. . Clean. Processed in 0.770862 secs); 20 Feb 2002 23:45:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mosm1) (192.168.1.130) by ck.transactionware.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2002 23:45:55 -0000 From: "Jan Mikkelsen" To: , Subject: ATA Controller choices Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:38:34 +1100 Organization: Transactionware Message-ID: <000001c1ba67$b66429e0$fc5807ca@mosm1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 In-Reply-To: <200202201953.g1KJrKq77437@freebsd.dk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG S=F8ren Schmidt wrote: > ... However the Serverworks ROSB4 chips is not one I=20 > would recommend using, if you need serious ATA support on=20 > such a board, install a Promise TX2 or later or a HPT370 or later ... I think I've also seen you post that the Highpoint is better than the Promise. What is the "quality heirarchy" of ATA chips? Eg. I know the VIA chips have issues. Where does the CMD 649 fit in that heirarchy? Such a list (or even a list of known issues with particular chips) would be useful for specifying new machines. Thanks, Jan Mikkelsen To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 16: 1:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from artemis.drwilco.net (diana.drwilco.net [66.48.127.79]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D63437B416 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:01:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ceres.drwilco.net (docwilco.xs4all.nl [213.84.68.230]) by artemis.drwilco.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L01FD74701 (using TLSv1/SSLv3 with cipher DES-CBC3-SHA (168 bits) verified NO); Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:01:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from drwilco@drwilco.net) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020221010548.045258c0@mail.drwilco.net> X-Sender: lists@mail.drwilco.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:11:42 +0100 To: "Lane, Frank L" , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" From: "Rogier R. Mulhuijzen" Subject: Re: Posix question In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 16:32 20-2-2002 -0600, Lane, Frank L wrote: >Hi List, > >I'm facing a serial write problem. Posix provides a function tcdrain () >that blocks until all serial data has been written from the card. Is there >an analogous function in the gnu c compiler for windows platforms? Does the >gnu c compiler try to give you posix functionality within the windows >environment? Thank you for any help you'll offer. A few things. 1) the GNU C Compiler doesn't provide the tcdrain() function, but libc does this. 2) if you're looking for UNIX like behavior on windows system (like GCC) I suggest you check out www.cygwin.com. I'm sure they can answer your question much better than the FreeBSD community. 3) why not use FreeBSD instead of windows? (not trying to be zealous, just curious, and you did post to a FreeBSD mailing list) Hope that helps you out, Doc To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 16: 5:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32E3937B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:05:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 06ADD78306; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:35:35 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:35:34 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Message-ID: <20020221103534.G65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200202200536.VAA258019@meer.meer.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tuesday, 19 February 2002 at 21:36:25 -0800, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Now that Luigi has put in polling support for some ethernet drivers > I was wondering how much work it would be to make the remote kernel debugging > run over the ethernet. I have worked on systems like this before (it's the > reason > I did polling network device drivers in Wind River's VxWorks) but it depends > on a debugging system that has the ability to have its back end swapped out. > > Who would I talk to about how kernel debugging works at the > lowest layers right now? Which source files should I look at first. I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose you'd like to take a look at it. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 16:15:11 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BC5637B400; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:15:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L0F5s59148; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:15:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id QAA394912; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:14:23 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202210014.QAA394912@meer.meer.net> To: Greg Lehey Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message from Greg Lehey of "Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:35:34 +1030." <20020221103534.G65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:14:23 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last > week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose > you'd like to take a look at it. That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we won't be able to use it easily I figure. Thanks for the pointer. Later, George To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17: 0:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 965FA37B400; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:00:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221010028.XYOR2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:00:28 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA65068; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:52:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:52:48 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: Greg Lehey , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <200202210014.QAA394912@meer.meer.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > > I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last > > week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose > > you'd like to take a look at it. > > That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we > won't be able to use it easily I figure. > > Thanks for the pointer. > > Later, > George > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17: 1:57 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4D2737B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:01:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 260CD78307; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:31:51 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:31:51 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Julian Elischer Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Message-ID: <20020221113151.T65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <200202210014.QAA394912@meer.meer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 20 February 2002 at 16:52:48 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > >>> I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last >>> week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose >>> you'd like to take a look at it. >> >> That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we >> won't be able to use it easily I figure. > > yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) > If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) No question. But protocols are a separate issue. One of the most amusing things I discovered recently is that you can use a FreeBSD gdb to kernel debug Linux :-) Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17:20:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C89237B402; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:20:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221012016.UPCN2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:20:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA65165; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:03:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:03:38 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Greg Lehey Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <20020221113151.T65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG you mean they use the same protocol? On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Greg Lehey wrote: > On Wednesday, 20 February 2002 at 16:52:48 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > > > >>> I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last > >>> week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose > >>> you'd like to take a look at it. > >> > >> That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we > >> won't be able to use it easily I figure. > > > > yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) > > If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) > > No question. But protocols are a separate issue. > > One of the most amusing things I discovered recently is that you can > use a FreeBSD gdb to kernel debug Linux :-) > > Greg > -- > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17:23:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3043D37B405 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:23:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id D685178306; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:53:14 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:53:14 +1030 From: Greg Lehey To: Julian Elischer Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Message-ID: <20020221115314.W65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20020221113151.T65817@wantadilla.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.23i Organization: The FreeBSD Project Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.FreeBSD.org/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, 20 February 2002 at 17:03:38 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Greg Lehey wrote: > >> On Wednesday, 20 February 2002 at 16:52:48 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: >>> On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: >>> >>>>> I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last >>>>> week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose >>>>> you'd like to take a look at it. >>>> >>>> That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we >>>> won't be able to use it easily I figure. >>> >>> yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) >>> If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) >> >> No question. But protocols are a separate issue. >> >> One of the most amusing things I discovered recently is that you can >> use a FreeBSD gdb to kernel debug Linux :-) > > you mean they use the same protocol? That's the obvious conclusion. Of course, Linux doesn't have serial gdb by default; you have to piece it together from all over the net. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17:30:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B52DD37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailgate1.apple.com (A17-128-100-225.apple.com [17.128.100.225]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1L1Up715820 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from scv1.apple.com (scv1.apple.com) by mailgate1.apple.com (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.1) with ESMTP id ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:28 -0800 Received: from hp39 (hp39.apple.com [17.202.42.181]) by scv1.apple.com (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g1L1Unv28430; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:30:49 -0800 Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v502) Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org To: "George V. Neville-Neil" From: Umesh Vaishampayan In-Reply-To: <200202210014.QAA394912@meer.meer.net> Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.502) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:14 PM, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: >> I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last >> week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose >> you'd like to take a look at it. > > That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we > won't be able to use it easily I figure. > > Thanks for the pointer. > > Later, > George > It uses an IOKit driver, but it's not particularly attached to it :-) In fact for the bringup, we used a BSD style driver... You can find the implementation in "xnu/osfmk/kdp". You will need to hook up kdp_en_send_pkt and kdp_en_recv_pkt to the function supplied by your device driver... --Umesh -- Umesh Vaishampayan Apple Computer, Inc. Mac OS X Kernel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17:47:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED98D37B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:47:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from grinch ([12.234.224.67]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221014722.ZJEX2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@grinch> for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:47:22 +0000 Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:47:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) From: Justin C.Walker To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:52 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) > If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) The Darwin/Mac OS X scheme only deals with IOKit because that's where the drivers live. The protocol implementation is in the directory 'xnu/osfmk/kdp'. It's in essence a UDP protocol, and is implemented without using any of the system's networking scheme (except for mbufs). The implementation is polling. The implementation is pretty light-weight. Regards, Justin > On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, George V. Neville-Neil wrote: > >>> I was talking to Louis Gerbarg about this topic at the BSDCon last >>> week. Apparently Darwin already has this functionality, so I suppose >>> you'd like to take a look at it. >> >> That depends on where they put it. If it depends on I/OKit then we >> won't be able to use it easily I figure. -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | When LuteFisk is outlawed | Only outlaws will have | LuteFisk *--------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 17:57:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D348937B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:57:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L1vHs61367; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:57:17 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id RAA384010; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:56:29 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202210156.RAA384010@meer.meer.net> To: "Justin C.Walker" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message from "Justin C.Walker" of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:47:22 PST." Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:56:29 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This all look great. I've got a Darwin 1.4 CD at home, I'll check it out tonight or some time this week. Later, George To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 18: 9:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com [65.24.0.112]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A38637B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:09:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from there (dzerkel@dhcp065-024-166-103.columbus.rr.com [65.24.166.103]) by clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g1L245H20108; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:04:06 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: "Danny J. Zerkel" Organization: Zerkular Systems To: Aleksander Rozman - Andy Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:09:10 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.3.2] Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wednesday 20 February 2002 15:48, Aleksander Rozman - Andy wrote: > At 18.2.2002, you wrote: > >On Sunday 17 February 2002 11:12, Robert Withrow wrote: > > > Hi: > > > > > > I was wondering if there was anyone working on getting ClearCase > > > working on FreeBSD? > > > > > > It seems that if we can get the Linux version of VmWare to run on > > > FreeBSD it should be possible to get the Linux version of ClearCase to > > > run on FreeBSD, but maybe I'm just dreamin'? > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Robert Withrow, R.W. Withrow Associates, Swampscott MA, witr@rwwa.COM > > > >How much of ClearCase are you trying to get working? Snapshot views might > >be possible, given they don't use the mvfs filesystem. Dynamic views are > >probably hopeless without support from Rational. > > > >The amount of stuggle that is evidenced on the ClearCase International > > User's Group mailing list about getting ClearCase to work with Linux, > > does not bode well for this effort. Even though there are a few versions > > of Linux that are supported by Rational. > > Note here. As I remember version 4.x works on linux (I am sure for RedHat, > but not others). So if it works for RH it should for other too.... As for > views, I think that only Snapshot worked. > Why don't you use CVSUp, or are you dependent on your company?? > > Andy Maybe cvs is an academic toy. Most real development requires a real configuration management system. Why do you think there is work being done on FreeBSD in Perforce? The sooner FreeBSD and Linux can escape the clutches of cvs, the better. Danny J. Zerkel To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 18:40:26 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (rwcrmhc51.attbi.com [204.127.198.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8C1637B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:40:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221024022.XDMH2626.rwcrmhc51.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:40:22 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA65522; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:28:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:28:11 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Danny J. Zerkel" Cc: Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Danny J. Zerkel wrote: > Maybe cvs is an academic toy. Most real development requires a real > configuration management system. Why do you think there is work being done > on FreeBSD in Perforce? The sooner FreeBSD and Linux can escape the clutches > of cvs, the better. Having used several professional CM systems including Clearcase, I've come to the conclusion that CVS is preferable to most of them It gets out of your way and lets you work. CLearcase makes you spend too much time wondering about what machine is where and which machine the data base is using etc. Disks are cheap these days. As far as I'm concerned any company that goes for clearcase has it's heart in the right place for wanting CM but needs to think carefully about what it's trying to do. Usually clearcase has been teh 2nd last step before complete company chaos in my experience. Not the cause, but a symptom. > > Danny J. Zerkel > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 19:41:24 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C2937B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:41:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0050.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.50] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dk6e-00064p-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:41:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3C746C53.7CE5EB8B@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 19:41:07 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Lane, Frank L" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: Posix question References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Lane, Frank L" wrote: > I'm facing a serial write problem. Posix provides a function tcdrain () > that blocks until all serial data has been written from the card. Is there > an analogous function in the gnu c compiler for windows platforms? Does the > gnu c compiler try to give you posix functionality within the windows > environment? Thank you for any help you'll offer. This question really belongs on the "questions" mailing list -- and not the FreeBSD one, the one run by Microsoft. -- Are we talking serial devices here? The POSIX tcdrain only guarantees that the driver believes the data has been written; you still have a timing window in which the transmit FIFO will remain undrained, leaving a latency proportional to the FIFO depth divided by the baud rate. In Windows, there are serial operations that you can use to force the drain of the driver to the hardware, but, again, there is a tiny latency window because of the physical hardware. No, we don't wait until the transmit queue empty interrupt. This actually isn't a feature of the compiler, it's a feature of the libc you end up using. I think what you are looking for on Windows is called "CYGWIN32". No, it does not guarantee full POSIX compliance, and the license will impact your code's license. There are a couple of third party emulation layers; one of them is a Linux emulation for Windows, in fact... the company was acquired by Microsoft last year. So the answer is that you can buy it from Microsoft, if you want to avoid the license issue with CYGWIN32. Alternately, you can search for "POSIX" and "WINDOWS" in a search engine, and find the other companies out there. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 20: 3:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FD9737B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:03:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0050.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.50] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dkRk-0003Es-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:03:05 -0800 Message-ID: <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:02:54 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Danny J. Zerkel" Cc: Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Danny J. Zerkel" wrote: > Maybe cvs is an academic toy. Most real development requires a real > configuration management system. Why do you think there is work being done > on FreeBSD in Perforce? Frankly, it's because CVS only permits a single line of concurrent developement, and it's a limiting tool; but CVSup is CVS-centric and fails with P4, and P4 costs money as a barrier to adoption for FreeBSD, if the project were to cut over to it, so there's understandable backpressure against using it for the main repository. > The sooner FreeBSD and Linux can escape the clutches > of cvs, the better. Linux doesn't use CVS. It doesn't use source management software at all, right now; Linus has only recently got around to experimenting with Bitkeeper. No matter how you slice it, your tools constrain your work; FreeBSD has a two tier core/committer split, and a barrier to entry for casual patch submission because of CVS' single line of developement, and GNATS/send-pr, respectively. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 20: 9:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C19737B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0050.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.198.50] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dkXw-0002eD-00; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:29 -0800 Message-ID: <3C7472EF.DDA6A4C6@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:09:19 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: "Danny J. Zerkel" , Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > Having used several professional CM systems including Clearcase, > I've come to the conclusion that CVS is preferable to most of them > It gets out of your way and lets you work. > CLearcase makes you spend too much time wondering about > what machine is where and which machine the data base is > using etc. I won't comment on Clearcase. I've use BattleMap; at US$50,000 per seat, and only running on limited platforms, it's not something you are likely to see except in large military or life support contract work. However, the tools we have available to us are pitiful, in comparison. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 20:19:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mired.org (dsl-64-192-6-133.telocity.com [64.192.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2322637B404 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:19:06 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 62513 invoked by uid 100); 21 Feb 2002 04:19:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:19:01 -0600 To: Terry Lambert Cc: "Danny J. Zerkel" , Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ From: "Mike Meyer" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.46 (Python 2.2; freebsd-4.5-STABLE-i386) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert types: > "Danny J. Zerkel" wrote: > > Maybe cvs is an academic toy. Most real development requires a real > > configuration management system. Why do you think there is work being done > > on FreeBSD in Perforce? > Frankly, it's because CVS only permits a single line of > concurrent developement, and it's a limiting tool; but > CVSup is CVS-centric and fails with P4, and P4 costs money as a > barrier to adoption for FreeBSD if the project were to cut over to > it, Not necessarily. The client is free, and in the ports tree. That includes the server with an evaluation license, which limits it to two clients and two users. Perforce offers Open Source software projects free multiuser - which means unlimited clients - licenses. See and search for "open source" on the page. They even point to the FreeBSD license as a good choice for a candidate. > so there's understandable backpressure against using it for the main > repository. I think the real pressure is that none of the sources are available. Last time I checked, they didn't even publish a description of the protocol between the server and the client, so you can't independently develop a client. They *do* provide a link library for all their build platforms that you can use to build custom clients, but you don't get source to that. I admit to being biased, but I think that switching would be an incredible win for everyone concerned. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 20:28: 7 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mmk.ru (ns1.mmk.ru [195.54.3.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31C8037B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:27:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from antivirus.mmk.ru (sinful [161.8.100.3]) by ns.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L4Rhs90272 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:27:43 +0500 (YEKT) Received: from wall.mmk.ru (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by antivirus.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1L4Qo705492 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:26:50 +0500 (ESK) Received: from wall (fw.dim.ru [1.1.1.2]) by wall.mmk.ru (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g1L4ORa02321 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:24:27 +0500 (YEKT) Message-ID: <000e01c1ba90$d52e8fe0$02010101@wall> From: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" To: Subject: /etc/rc.conf not using by system Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:32:55 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BABA.BDA8E350" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BABA.BDA8E350 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! I'll try again: who can say me why system not using my /etc/rc.conf ? Regards, Dmitry. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BABA.BDA8E350 Content-Type: text/html; charset="koi8-r" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi!
 
I'll try again:
who can say me why system not = using my=20 /etc/rc.conf ?
 
Regards,
Dmitry.
------=_NextPart_000_000B_01C1BABA.BDA8E350-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 20:59:31 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.viasoft.com.cn (unknown [61.153.1.177]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5DD237B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 20:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from davidwnt (davidwnt.viasoft.com.cn [192.168.1.239]) by mail.viasoft.com.cn (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA20982; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:08:37 +0800 Message-ID: <00f701c1ba94$a8868980$ef01a8c0@davidwnt> From: "David Xu" To: "Terry Lambert" , "Mike Meyer" Cc: "Danny J. Zerkel" , "Aleksander Rozman - Andy" , References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com><5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10><200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com><3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:00:18 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Terry Lambert types: > > "Danny J. Zerkel" wrote: > > > Maybe cvs is an academic toy. Most real development requires a = real > > > configuration management system. Why do you think there is work = being done > > > on FreeBSD in Perforce? > > Frankly, it's because CVS only permits a single line of > > concurrent developement, and it's a limiting tool; but > > CVSup is CVS-centric and fails with P4, and P4 costs money as a > > barrier to adoption for FreeBSD if the project were to cut over to > > it, >=20 > Not necessarily. The client is free, and in the ports tree. That > includes the server with an evaluation license, which limits it to two > clients and two users. Perforce offers Open Source software projects > free multiuser - which means unlimited clients - licenses. See http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html > and search for "open > source" on the page. They even point to the FreeBSD license as a good > choice for a candidate. >=20 > > so there's understandable backpressure against using it for the main > > repository. >=20 > I think the real pressure is that none of the sources are > available. Last time I checked, they didn't even publish a description > of the protocol between the server and the client, so you can't > independently develop a client. They *do* provide a link library for > all their build platforms that you can use to build custom clients, > but you don't get source to that. >=20 > I admit to being biased, but I think that switching would be an > incredible win for everyone concerned. >=20 > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ > Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more = information. >=20 Does Perforce support replicate like FreeBSD's current CVSUP support? if not, how does it support large number of users or connections?=20 is it a trend that FreeBSD community will migrated to use Perforce = instead=20 of CVS? I prompt these because I feel somebodies try to create two=20 FreeBSD source repositories :( Am I wrong? Thanks, -- David Xu To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 21:53:13 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mired.org (dsl-64-192-6-133.telocity.com [64.192.6.133]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id CBF7737B41D for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 21:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 63249 invoked by uid 100); 21 Feb 2002 05:52:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15476.35633.256964.524608@guru.mired.org> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:52:49 -0600 To: "David Xu" Cc: "Terry Lambert" , "Danny J. Zerkel" , "Aleksander Rozman - Andy" , Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <00f701c1ba94$a8868980$ef01a8c0@davidwnt> References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> <00f701c1ba94$a8868980$ef01a8c0@davidwnt> X-Mailer: VM 6.90 under 21.1 (patch 14) "Cuyahoga Valley" XEmacs Lucid X-face: "5Mnwy%?j>IIV\)A=):rjWL~NB2aH[}Yq8Z=u~vJ`"(,&SiLvbbz2W`;h9L,Yg`+vb1>RG% *h+%X^n0EZd>TM8_IB;a8F?(Fb"lw'IgCoyM.[Lg#r\ From: "Mike Meyer" X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.46 (Python 2.2; freebsd-4.5-STABLE-i386) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG David Xu types: > Does Perforce support replicate like FreeBSD's current CVSUP support? It's certainly possibly in theory, but I don't know that anyone has ever tried it in practice. > if not, how does it support large number of users or connections? In generaly, it works fairly well with large commercial user communities. However, the FreeBSD community is another issue entirely. While I don't speak for them, I'm sure the folks at Perforce would be more than happy to help make this it a workable solution for the FreeBSD project. > is it a trend that FreeBSD community will migrated to use Perforce instead > of CVS? I don't think so - to many people have problems with using closed-source tools. http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 22:19:51 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from barkley.vpha.health.ufl.edu (barkley.vpha.health.ufl.edu [159.178.78.160]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D3BE437B400 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:19:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from apache@localhost) by barkley.vpha.health.ufl.edu (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L6Jls19840 for hackers@freebsd.org; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:19:47 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: barkley.vpha.health.ufl.edu: apache set sender to sridharv@ufl.edu using -f Received: from 216.78.163.186 ( [216.78.163.186]) as user sridharv@imap.ufl.edu by webmail.health.ufl.edu with HTTP; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:19:47 -0500 Message-ID: <1014272387.3c74918386be5@webmail.health.ufl.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 01:19:47 -0500 From: sridharv@ufl.edu To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: interrupt priority question MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.0 X-Originating-IP: 216.78.163.186 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG While i understand the mechanism of hardware interrupt priority, I am curious to know how the priority levels are achieved/implemented for software ( in particular the various layers of the TCP/IP stack.. splxxx() ). sridhar To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 22:19:52 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx01-a.netapp.com (mx01-a.netapp.com [198.95.226.53]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49FBB37B402 for ; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:19:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from frejya.corp.netapp.com (frejya [10.10.20.91]) by mx01-a.netapp.com (8.11.1/8.11.1/NTAP-1.2) with ESMTP id g1L6IZ313364; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from cranford-be.eng (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by frejya.corp.netapp.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/NTAP-1.4) with ESMTP id g1L6IYrr018438; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kmacy@localhost) by cranford-be.eng (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id g1L6IUO28531; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:18:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 22:18:30 -0800 (PST) From: Kip Macy To: Mike Meyer Cc: David Xu , Terry Lambert , "Danny J. Zerkel" , Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <15476.35633.256964.524608@guru.mired.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Bitkeeper is not closed source, and is freely available so long as you use open logging. I haven't used bitkeeper on projects with more than a couple people so I'm not in a position to comment on how well it scales. However, perforce is what is used at NetApp (several hundreds of developers with ~12 LOD) and I have to say that I prefer Bitkeeper. The interface is more intuitive, extensible, and seems to require less kludging. -Kip On Wed, 20 Feb 2002, Mike Meyer wrote: > David Xu types: > > Does Perforce support replicate like FreeBSD's current CVSUP support? > > It's certainly possibly in theory, but I don't know that anyone has > ever tried it in practice. > > > if not, how does it support large number of users or connections? > > In generaly, it works fairly well with large commercial user > communities. However, the FreeBSD community is another issue > entirely. While I don't speak for them, I'm sure the folks at Perforce > would be more than happy to help make this it a workable solution for > the FreeBSD project. > > > is it a trend that FreeBSD community will migrated to use Perforce instead > > of CVS? > > I don't think so - to many people have problems with using > closed-source tools. > > -- > Mike Meyer http://www.mired.org/home/mwm/ > Independent WWW/Perforce/FreeBSD/Unix consultant, email for more information. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Wed Feb 20 23:53:38 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.sambolian.net.nz (203-79-83-205.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.83.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4793E37B405; Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:53:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from sambo.sambolian.net.nz (sambo.sambolian.net.nz [192.168.0.81]) by smtp.sambolian.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69DE1FE83; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:56:15 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Sony CD Writer model CRX175M From: Andrew Thompson To: freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 21 Feb 2002 21:54:22 +1400 Message-Id: <1014278062.254.31.camel@sambo.sambolian.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I have recently purchased a Sony cd writer (model CRX175M) that has a memory stick drive built in. The device comes up as afd0 but I am unable to mount it. The snippet of my dmesg is... vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on isa0 sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 sio0: type 16550A sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 sio1: type 16550A ad0: 19546MB [39714/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA66 acd0: CD-RW at ata1-master using PIO4 afd0: 0MB [0/4/16] at ata1-slave using PIO4 Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s2a When I try to mount it I get # mount /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ mount: /dev/afd0 on /mnt/sony: incorrect super block or # mount -t msdos /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ msdos: /dev/afd0: Invalid argument And I get the a few lines of "afd0: PREVENT_ALLOW - ILLEGAL REQUEST asc=24 ascq=00 error=00" in my dmesg. I have reformatted the memory stick from the camera but that makes no difference. Has anyone else used this hardware device? or can anyone help? cheers Andrew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 0:28:54 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net (harrier.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D04637B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0063.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.63] helo=mindspring.com) by harrier.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16doav-0003f1-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:28:49 -0800 Message-ID: <3C74AFB7.FCDEE8A2@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:28:39 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sridharv@ufl.edu Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: interrupt priority question References: <1014272387.3c74918386be5@webmail.health.ufl.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG sridharv@ufl.edu wrote: > While i understand the mechanism of hardware interrupt priority, > I am curious to know how the priority levels are achieved/implemented > for software ( in particular the various layers of the TCP/IP stack.. > splxxx() ). Stevens Volume 2 is the canonical reference. Basically, the code runs at NETISR, which is a software interrupt which is ran at splx() time. Look at the source code for splx() to get a better idea. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 0:57:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from freebsd.dk (fw-rl0.freebsd.dk [212.242.86.114]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D878F37B405; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:57:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from sos@localhost) by freebsd.dk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1L8v2E70980; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:57:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from sos) From: Søren Schmidt Message-Id: <200202210857.g1L8v2E70980@freebsd.dk> Subject: Re: ATA Controller choices In-Reply-To: <000001c1ba67$b66429e0$fc5807ca@mosm1> To: Jan Mikkelsen Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:57:02 +0100 (CET) Cc: sos@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Reply-To: sos@freebsd.dk X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL94b (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG It seems Jan Mikkelsen wrote: > Søren Schmidt wrote: > > ... However the Serverworks ROSB4 chips is not one I > > would recommend using, if you need serious ATA support on > > such a board, install a Promise TX2 or later or a HPT370 or later ... > > I think I've also seen you post that the Highpoint is better than the > Promise. That was before Promise made the TX2 line, they are pretty good, but the new HPT374 also has potential. > What is the "quality heirarchy" of ATA chips? Eg. I know the VIA chips > have issues. Where does the CMD 649 fit in that heirarchy? There are two different kinds, those that are part of a southbridge chip (eg the VIA, SiS, Intel etc) and those that are meant for addon PCI cards (eg Promise, Highpoint). For the first type you only have part of a choice, since you cannot always decide what kind you want for a given platform, but you can always disable it and use something else. Now for PCI based controllers the low end is the CMD chips, they are horrible performers, and the older versions has all kinds of "nits" that needs workarounds (I chose not to support them instead). Then there isn't really much to think about, only if it needs to be Promise or HighPoint :) > Such a list (or even a list of known issues with particular chips) would > be useful for specifying new machines. Hmm, I have such a list on various pieces of paper here and lots of loose notes, but nothing that could be easily posted. However it a good idea and I'll get it into shape *sometime* -Søren To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 2:53:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-21.dis.org [216.240.45.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53E2C37B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:53:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1LArcW01377; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:53:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200202211053.g1LArcW01377@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "George V. Neville-Neil" Cc: Julian Elischer , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:35:17 PST." <200202201835.KAA337017@meer.meer.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 02:53:38 -0800 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > 1) Easy to write a very minimal, outside the stack, IP/UDP layer. One (very nasty) already exists in libstand. There was a very small TCP/IP stack mentioned on /. the other day; it looked close to ideal for this application. -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 3: 0:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from intranet.ru (tcms8.intranet.ru [212.164.0.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165C337B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:00:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.124.210.51] (account ) by intranet.ru (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.4.8) with HTTP id 10038829; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:00:35 +0600 From: "Eugene Panchenko" Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:00:35 +0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C73731E.B0339E2D@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:57:50 -0800 Terry Lambert wrote: > Eugene Panchenko wrote: > > gretings. > > > > As seen on kerneltrap.org: > > --- > > Andrew Morton: Ingo Molnar broke the ground here with > his > > 2.2.12 patch which demonstrated that Linux could fairly > > easily yield task activation delays which are one to > two > > orders of magnitude better than any competing operating > > system. > > --- > > > > is this a truth ? about "orders of magnitude" ? does > FreeBSD > > fall under "any competing operating system"? > > What is it? > > You left off the URL. Looking on the site, it's not > posted to the front, and the search function does not > locate the article. > > To answer your questions, you'll have to provide more > information. A Linux patch number doesn't cut it. Oh, I'm sorry, this is the full URL: http://kerneltrap.org/node.php?id=10&cid=25 ____________________________________________________________ ïÐÌÁÔÁ ÕÓÌÕÇ ÍÏÂÉÌØÎÏÊ Ó×ÑÚÉ É ÉÎÔÅÒÎÅÔ ÄÏÓÔÕÐÁ ÎÁ http://ngs.ru/shop To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 3: 3: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from intranet.ru (tcms8.intranet.ru [212.164.0.135]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E742037B41D for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:02:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [193.124.210.51] (account ) by intranet.ru (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.4.8) with HTTP id 10038948; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:02:52 +0600 From: "Eugene Panchenko" Subject: Re: Task activation delays: FreeBSD versus Linux? To: Terry Lambert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.4.8 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:02:52 +0600 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <3C73739D.A0E65101@mindspring.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="KOI8-R" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:59:57 -0800 Terry Lambert wrote: > Not enough information to answer the questions, and the > original posting referenced doesn't seem to be there > any more, anyway. Actually, it is there, but pushed down by some newer stuff. I used "search" link to retrieve the URL :) ____________________________________________________________ ïÐÌÁÔÁ ÕÓÌÕÇ ÍÏÂÉÌØÎÏÊ Ó×ÑÚÉ É ÉÎÔÅÒÎÅÔ ÄÏÓÔÕÐÁ ÎÁ http://ngs.ru/shop To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 3:26:14 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from nmh.informatik.uni-bremen.de (nmh.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.224.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 091D037B404; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:26:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from s61.informatik.uni-bremen.de (s61.informatik.uni-bremen.de [134.102.201.21]) by nmh.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.10.1/8.10.1) with ESMTP id g1LBQ1C02050; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:26:02 +0100 (MET) Received: (from jstocker@localhost) by s61.informatik.uni-bremen.de (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.7) id MAA08570; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:26:00 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:26:00 +0100 (MET) From: Jan Stocker To: Andrew Thompson Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, Subject: Re: Sony CD Writer model CRX175M In-Reply-To: <1014278062.254.31.camel@sambo.sambolian.net.nz> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The memory stick will also have partitions... so try $fdisk afd0 to show up the table.... maybe a mount -t msdos /dev/afd0s1 /mnt/sony does it.... Jan -- "Kneel and deliver!" -- Casanunda, the worlds smallest lover turns highwaydwarf (Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies) On 21 Feb 2002, Andrew Thompson wrote: > Hi, > > > I have recently purchased a Sony cd writer (model CRX175M) that has a > memory stick drive built in. The device comes up as afd0 but I am > unable to mount it. The snippet of my dmesg is... > > vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on > isa0 > sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 > sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> > sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 > sio0: type 16550A > sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 > sio1: type 16550A > ad0: 19546MB [39714/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA66 > acd0: CD-RW at ata1-master using PIO4 > afd0: 0MB [0/4/16] at ata1-slave using PIO4 > Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s2a > > > > > When I try to mount it I get > > # mount /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ > mount: /dev/afd0 on /mnt/sony: incorrect super block > > or > > # mount -t msdos /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ > msdos: /dev/afd0: Invalid argument > > > And I get the a few lines of "afd0: PREVENT_ALLOW - ILLEGAL REQUEST > asc=24 ascq=00 error=00" in my dmesg. > > > I have reformatted the memory stick from the camera but that makes no > difference. Has anyone else used this hardware device? or can anyone > help? > > > > > cheers > > Andrew > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 3:32:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id BF35337B405 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 03:31:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 8375 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Feb 2002 08:01:19 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:01:19 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.conf not using by system Message-ID: <20020221100118.A336@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000e01c1ba90$d52e8fe0$02010101@wall> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <000e01c1ba90$d52e8fe0$02010101@wall>; from freebsd@mmk.ru on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:32:55AM +0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:32:55AM +0500, Dmitry A. Bondareff wrote: > Hi! >=20 > I'll try again: > who can say me why system not using my /etc/rc.conf ? What exactly is your system not doing? You mentioned something about 'more' - are you referring to more(1), or something else? You only told us how you tried to put /etc/defaults/rc.conf in place; there was not any problem that we can see. So.. what exactly is wrong? G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 "yields falsehood, when appended to its quotation." yields falsehood, when = appended to its quotation. --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjx0qU4ACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVMUkACeOYXs8+VUTKzO8ghLvAg01/K1 tk4AnibdUeP9ZZ5dVE90HUQ8ItQLa1fR =9XEv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --u3/rZRmxL6MmkK24-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 6:54:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from ussenterprise.ufp.org (ussenterprise.ufp.org [208.185.30.210]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A1D637B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 06:54:36 -0800 (PST) Received: (from bicknell@localhost) by ussenterprise.ufp.org (8.11.1/8.11.1) id g1LEsPV22986; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:54:25 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from bicknell) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:54:25 -0500 From: Leo Bicknell To: Mike Meyer Cc: Terry Lambert , "Danny J. Zerkel" , Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD Message-ID: <20020221145425.GA22885@ussenterprise.ufp.org> Mail-Followup-To: Mike Meyer , Terry Lambert , "Danny J. Zerkel" , Aleksander Rozman - Andy , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> Organization: United Federation of Planets Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG In a message written on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:19:01PM -0600, Mike Meyer wrote: > Not necessarily. The client is free, and in the ports tree. That > includes the server with an evaluation license, which limits it to two > clients and two users. Perforce offers Open Source software projects > free multiuser - which means unlimited clients - licenses. See http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html > and search for "open > source" on the page. They even point to the FreeBSD license as a good > choice for a candidate. While necessary for a project like FreeBSD, this is not sufficient. FreeBSD (and BSD in general) has outlived a number of companies and technologies, and if Perforce went down the tubes and there was no source we could have a major problem. Now, where did I put my SCCS copy of the tree... -- Leo Bicknell - bicknell@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ Read TMBG List - tmbg-list-request@tmbg.org, www.tmbg.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 7:49: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from duke.cs.duke.edu (duke.cs.duke.edu [152.3.140.1]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71AE137B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 07:48:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (grasshopper.cs.duke.edu [152.3.145.30]) by duke.cs.duke.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23427; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:48:58 -0500 (EST) Received: (from gallatin@localhost) by grasshopper.cs.duke.edu (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1LFmSL73522; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:48:28 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from gallatin@cs.duke.edu) From: Andrew Gallatin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15477.5836.664828.696847@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:48:28 -0500 (EST) To: "Justin C.Walker" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under 21.1 (patch 12) "Channel Islands" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Justin C.Walker writes: > > On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:52 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: > > > yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) > > If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) > > The Darwin/Mac OS X scheme only deals with IOKit because that's where > the drivers live. The protocol implementation is in the directory > 'xnu/osfmk/kdp'. It's in essence a UDP protocol, and is implemented > without using any of the system's networking scheme (except for mbufs). > The implementation is polling. The implementation is pretty > light-weight. Where do the Darwin gdb sources live, so we can see the gdb end of it too? I've looked, but have so far been unable to find them. Thanks, Drew To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 10: 9:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lindt.urgle.com (lindt.urgle.com [62.49.202.23]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC4837B405 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from mike by lindt.urgle.com with local (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16dxea-000HeM-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:09:12 +0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:09:12 +0000 From: Mike Bristow To: Tony Finch Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org, Julian Elischer , Hiten Pandya Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020221180912.A67832@lindt.urgle.com> References: <20020220003153.A17250@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020220003153.A17250@chiark.greenend.org.uk>; from dot@dotat.at on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:31:53AM +0000 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:31:53AM +0000, Tony Finch wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > > I can suggest using a netgraph module for the work as it can be connected > > to a netgraph ksocket node to receive the requests (jdp made all the > > changes needed to allow this to be done). > > Another way would be to implement it as an accept filter which knows how > to handle simple requests but drops anything more complicated down to > a userland web server -- an unmodified Apache would be able to do the > latter, since it already supports accept filters. Some way of configuring > it is still needed, though... This may well be the right approach. But rather than handling "simple" requests, it should handle cacheable requests. But only if they're in it's cache - otherwise it passes them through to the userland web server, and cache the results. This is the approach that Sun took (except they used a STREAMS module, rather than an accept filter). -- Mike Bristow, embonpointful, but not managerial, damnit. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 10:39:15 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtp.sambolian.net.nz (203-79-83-205.cable.paradise.net.nz [203.79.83.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCFB37B402; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:39:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from sambo.sambolian.net.nz (sambo.sambolian.net.nz [192.168.0.81]) by smtp.sambolian.net.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E817FDF8; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:41:49 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: Re: Sony CD Writer model CRX175M From: Andrew Thompson To: Jan Stocker Cc: freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 22 Feb 2002 08:39:58 +1400 Message-Id: <1014316798.254.37.camel@sambo.sambolian.net.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I get.... # fdisk afd0 ******* Working on device /dev/afd0 ******* parameters extracted from in-core disklabel are: cylinders=0 heads=4 sectors/track=16 (64 blks/cyl) parameters to be used for BIOS calculations are: cylinders=0 heads=4 sectors/track=16 (64 blks/cyl) fdisk: invalid fdisk partition table found fdisk: /boot/mbr: length must be a multiple of sector size and # mount -t msdos /dev/afd0s1 /mnt/sony msdos: /dev/afd0s1: Device not configured I guess the filesystem on the memory stick may not be supported. oh well, I not too worried about it as I dual boot with Windows(ugh). As its a new model someone else may buy one and come up with a solution in the future. Thanks for your help Jan. cheers Andrew On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 01:26, Jan Stocker wrote: > The memory stick will also have partitions... so try > > $fdisk afd0 > > to show up the table.... > > maybe a > > mount -t msdos /dev/afd0s1 /mnt/sony > > does it.... > > Jan > > > -- > "Kneel and deliver!" > -- Casanunda, the worlds smallest lover turns highwaydwarf > (Terry Pratchett, Lords and Ladies) > > On 21 Feb 2002, Andrew Thompson wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I have recently purchased a Sony cd writer (model CRX175M) that has a > > memory stick drive built in. The device comes up as afd0 but I am > > unable to mount it. The snippet of my dmesg is... > > > > vga0: at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa0000-0xbffff on > > isa0 > > sc0: at flags 0x100 on isa0 > > sc0: VGA <16 virtual consoles, flags=0x300> > > sio0 at port 0x3f8-0x3ff irq 4 flags 0x10 on isa0 > > sio0: type 16550A > > sio1 at port 0x2f8-0x2ff irq 3 on isa0 > > sio1: type 16550A > > ad0: 19546MB [39714/16/63] at ata0-master UDMA66 > > acd0: CD-RW at ata1-master using PIO4 > > afd0: 0MB [0/4/16] at ata1-slave using PIO4 > > Mounting root from ufs:/dev/ad0s2a > > > > > > > > > > When I try to mount it I get > > > > # mount /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ > > mount: /dev/afd0 on /mnt/sony: incorrect super block > > > > or > > > > # mount -t msdos /dev/afd0 /mnt/sony/ > > msdos: /dev/afd0: Invalid argument > > > > > > And I get the a few lines of "afd0: PREVENT_ALLOW - ILLEGAL REQUEST > > asc=24 ascq=00 error=00" in my dmesg. > > > > > > I have reformatted the memory stick from the camera but that makes no > > difference. Has anyone else used this hardware device? or can anyone > > help? > > > > > > > > > > cheers > > > > Andrew > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 11: 7:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from straylight.ringlet.net (discworld.nanolink.com [217.75.135.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 9F07937B416 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:07:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 1664 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Feb 2002 19:07:44 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:07:44 +0200 From: Peter Pentchev To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: /etc/rc.conf not using by system Message-ID: <20020221210744.C472@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mail-Followup-To: "Dmitry A. Bondareff" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG References: <000e01c1ba90$d52e8fe0$02010101@wall> <20020221100118.A336@straylight.oblivion.bg> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-md5; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn" Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020221100118.A336@straylight.oblivion.bg>; from roam@ringlet.net on Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 10:01:19AM +0200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 10:01:19AM +0200, Peter Pentchev wrote: > On Thu, Feb 21, 2002 at 09:32:55AM +0500, Dmitry A. Bondareff wrote: > > Hi! > >=20 > > I'll try again: > > who can say me why system not using my /etc/rc.conf ? >=20 > What exactly is your system not doing? You mentioned something about > 'more' - are you referring to more(1), or something else? > You only told us how you tried to put /etc/defaults/rc.conf in place; > there was not any problem that we can see. So.. what exactly is wrong? For the benefit of the list: the problem turned out to be missed invocations of mergemaster(8). G'luck, Peter --=20 Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@FreeBSD.org PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc Key fingerprint FDBA FD79 C26F 3C51 C95E DF9E ED18 B68D 1619 4553 If you think this sentence is confusing, then change one pig. --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iEYEARECAAYFAjx1RYAACgkQ7Ri2jRYZRVPC6ACfXP/mS4FUNyudV0Ydapid97bt 3KIAn1ebHEPPEzlVPsFwq2WIyOsLkHzB =joZm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --kVXhAStRUZ/+rrGn-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 13:40:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A93837B419; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:40:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221214009.UXD1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 21:40:09 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA69463; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:34:49 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:34:48 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Michael Smith Cc: "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <200202211053.g1LArcW01377@mass.dis.org> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG This is cool. As people talk about this it seems that more and more of the needed parts are already available from one source or another.. On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > 1) Easy to write a very minimal, outside the stack, IP/UDP layer. > > One (very nasty) already exists in libstand. that is good news. > There was a very small TCP/IP stack mentioned on /. the other day; it > looked close to ideal for this application. though I think it is probably better to use a UDP transport rther than TCP it would be worth checking it out I guess. > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 13:56:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1A2F37B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:56:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0500.cvx21-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.193.245] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16e1Cg-0001ty-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:56:39 -0800 Message-ID: <3C756D0B.57E25B0@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:56:27 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > There was a very small TCP/IP stack mentioned on /. the other day; it > > looked close to ideal for this application. > > though I think it is probably better to use a UDP transport rther than > TCP it would be worth checking it out I guess. I looked for it, but couldn't find it, going back over a week in the slashdot archives. Personally, I find the TCP approach a good idea, but too heavy weight for the problem, I think. Without TCP, you have to implement your own version of retry and ack (equivalent to negotiating a window size of 1), and so you have to redo what's already there. The other issue with TCP is that you can set up specific flows in the company firewall, and also permit SSLeay based tunnel encapsulation from outside via an intermediate machine. This isn't really required for off-site debugging, but it gives another option. Since the OS X stuff is fairly well documented, it couldn't hurt to be interoperable with that. Standards are wonderful: there's so many to choose from. ;^). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 14:15:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailgate.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de (mailgate.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de [129.13.64.97]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BFC037B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:15:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from wn4-marvin.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de (qmailr@wn4-marvin.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de [172.20.12.211]) by mailgate.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16e1Uf-0001vu-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:15:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 3915 invoked by uid 1000); 21 Feb 2002 22:15:33 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:15:33 +0100 From: Benedikt Schmidt To: Terry Lambert Cc: Julian Elischer , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Message-ID: <20020221221533.GD1449@wn4-marvin.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de> References: <3C756D0B.57E25B0@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3C756D0B.57E25B0@mindspring.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Terry Lambert wrote: > Julian Elischer wrote: > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > > There was a very small TCP/IP stack mentioned on /. the other day; it > > > looked close to ideal for this application. > > > > though I think it is probably better to use a UDP transport rther than > > TCP it would be worth checking it out I guess. > > I looked for it, but couldn't find it, going back over > a week in the slashdot archives. Look at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/29/2115210&mode=thread. The TCP/IP stack mentioned in this article can be found at http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/ and is licensed under the 4-clause BSD license. -- Benedikt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 15: 0:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D64D37B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:00:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020221230017.XFUD2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:00:17 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA69842; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:55:35 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:55:33 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Benedikt Schmidt Cc: Terry Lambert , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <20020221221533.GD1449@wn4-marvin.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, so now George has so many choices to choose from that I'm expecting 3 different implementations from him, with no common components :-) On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Benedikt Schmidt wrote: > Terry Lambert wrote: > > Julian Elischer wrote: > > > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002, Michael Smith wrote: > > > > There was a very small TCP/IP stack mentioned on /. the other day; it > > > > looked close to ideal for this application. > > > > > > though I think it is probably better to use a UDP transport rther than > > > TCP it would be worth checking it out I guess. > > > > I looked for it, but couldn't find it, going back over > > a week in the slashdot archives. > > Look at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/29/2115210&mode=thread. > The TCP/IP stack mentioned in this article can be found at > http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/ and is licensed under the 4-clause BSD > license. > > -- > Benedikt > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 15: 3:23 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net (avocet.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.50]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54AFD37B402; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:03:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0385.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.130] helo=mindspring.com) by avocet.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16e2F9-00031d-00; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:03:15 -0800 Message-ID: <3C757CA8.D3467083@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:03:04 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Benedikt Schmidt Cc: Julian Elischer , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? References: <3C756D0B.57E25B0@mindspring.com> <20020221221533.GD1449@wn4-marvin.wn4.uni-karlsruhe.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Benedikt Schmidt wrote: > Look at http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/01/29/2115210&mode=thread. > The TCP/IP stack mentioned in this article can be found at > http://dunkels.com/adam/uip/ and is licensed under the 4-clause BSD > license. Thank you. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 15:10:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from smtpout.mac.com (smtpout.mac.com [204.179.120.86]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6D67D37B404 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp-relay02.mac.com (server-source-si02 [10.13.10.6]) by smtpout.mac.com (8.12.1/8.10.2/1.0) with ESMTP id g1LNAOJZ015076 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from asmtp01.mac.com ([10.13.10.65]) by smtp-relay02.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 relay02 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GRWODB00.39J for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:10:23 -0800 Received: from grinch ([12.234.224.67]) by asmtp01.mac.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 asmtp01 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with ESMTP id GRWODB00.Q02 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:10:23 -0800 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:10:22 -0800 Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v475) From: "Justin C. Walker" To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In-Reply-To: <15477.5836.664828.696847@grasshopper.cs.duke.edu> Message-Id: <2E638A1E-2720-11D6-A30A-00306544D642@mac.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.475) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG The Apple darwin site is: http://www.opensource.apple.com I've not looked through the source for this, so you may have to inquire on the darwin-development mailing list for pointers into the source repository. Regards, Justin On Thursday, February 21, 2002, at 07:48 AM, Andrew Gallatin wrote: > > Justin C.Walker writes: >> >> On Wednesday, February 20, 2002, at 04:52 PM, Julian Elischer wrote: >> >>> yes but we might as well be protocol compatible if possible :-) >>> If only to re-use what they did in gdb :-) >> >> The Darwin/Mac OS X scheme only deals with IOKit because that's where >> the drivers live. The protocol implementation is in the directory >> 'xnu/osfmk/kdp'. It's in essence a UDP protocol, and is implemented >> without using any of the system's networking scheme (except for mbufs). >> The implementation is polling. The implementation is pretty >> light-weight. > > Where do the Darwin gdb sources live, so we can see the gdb end of it > too? I've looked, but have so far been unable to find them. > > Thanks, > > Drew > > -- Justin C. Walker, Curmudgeon-At-Large * Institute for General Semantics | Men are from Earth. | Women are from Earth. | Deal with it. *--------------------------------------*-------------------------------* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 16: 2:10 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from outboundx.mv.meer.net (outboundx.mv.meer.net [209.157.152.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4C2EA37B400; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:02:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from meer.meer.net (mail.meer.net [209.157.152.14]) by outboundx.mv.meer.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1M023s81551; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:02:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gnn@neville-neil.com) Received: from neville-neil.com ([209.157.133.226]) by meer.meer.net (8.9.3/8.9.3/meer) with ESMTP id QAA542206; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:01:17 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <200202220001.QAA542206@meer.meer.net> To: Julian Elischer Cc: Benedikt Schmidt , Terry Lambert , Michael Smith , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: Message from Julian Elischer of "Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:55:33 PST." Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:01:16 -0800 From: "George V. Neville-Neil" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Ok, so now George has so many choices to choose from > that I'm expecting 3 different implementations from him, with no common > components :-) That's my exact plan, how did you know? Actually this has all been pretty helpful, and I'll be considering the options and playing as soon as I get that TWiki stuff I promised the SMP folks up. Should be today. Then on to implement the debugging in picoBSD on my new Soekris board. And in my free time I'll be rewriting cvs to work just like Perforce AND Clear Case... Later, George To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 16:14:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from cain.gsoft.com.au (genesi.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.136.161]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F8037B404; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:14:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cain.gsoft.com.au (8.12.2/8.12.2) with ESMTP id g1M0EDZR007360; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:44:17 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from doconnor@gsoft.com.au) Subject: Re: Sony CD Writer model CRX175M From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Andrew Thompson Cc: Jan Stocker , freebsd-hardware@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <1014316798.254.37.camel@sambo.sambolian.net.nz> References: <1014316798.254.37.camel@sambo.sambolian.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Evolution/1.0.2 Date: 22 Feb 2002 11:44:13 +1130 Message-Id: <1014336863.3564.30.camel@chowder.gsoft.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.3 (www dot roaringpenguin dot com slash mimedefang) Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, 2002-02-22 at 06:09, Andrew Thompson wrote: > fdisk: invalid fdisk partition table found > fdisk: /boot/mbr: length must be a multiple of sector size > > > And I get the a few lines of "afd0: PREVENT_ALLOW - ILLEGAL REQUEST > > > asc=24 ascq=00 error=00" in my dmesg. Personally I'd say that is the problem. The ATA code is sending a request that the memory stick doesn't understand. Perhaps there are some resources online that may be able to point out what is necessary to talk to this device. --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 16:26:59 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hunkular.glarp.com (hunkular.glarp.com [199.117.25.251]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4490037B400 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 16:26:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from hunkular.glarp.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hunkular.glarp.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1M0QuR19378 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:26:56 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from huntting@hunkular.glarp.com) Message-Id: <200202220026.g1M0QuR19378@hunkular.glarp.com> To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: SIGBUS w/ 5.0-CURRENT + Imlib From: huntting@glarp.com Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:26:56 -0700 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I'm seeing a strange problem on 5.0 (c. Feb 19). It seem everything that uses the Imlib library (/usr/ports/graphics/imlib) dumps core with a SIGBUS when starting up. When I try to use gdb, I see that it is not even getting to main() before crashing. Has anyone seen anything like this before? Lastly, what does a SIGBUS _mean_ on the x86? (It's been so long since I've seen it, I actually thought it was a Motorola 68k-ism). thanx, brad To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 17:31: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from h132-197-179-27.gte.com (h132-197-179-27.gte.com [132.197.179.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D2E437B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from kanpc.gte.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by h132-197-179-27.gte.com (8.12.2/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1M1UtbX046937; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:30:55 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from ak03@kanpc.gte.com) Received: (from ak03@localhost) by kanpc.gte.com (8.12.2/8.12.2/Submit) id g1M1Udng046936; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:30:39 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 20:30:39 -0500 From: "Alexander N. Kabaev" To: huntting@glarp.com Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, Peter Schultz Subject: Re: SIGBUS w/ 5.0-CURRENT + Imlib Message-ID: <20020222013038.GA46776@kanpc.gte.com> References: <200202220026.g1M0QuR19378@hunkular.glarp.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200202220026.g1M0QuR19378@hunkular.glarp.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Imlib depends on libpng and binutils in -CURRENT contain a bug which causes ld to create invalid shared library image for libpng.so.5. The problem has been discussed already, see PR ports/34908 for the patch. Curiously, none of the messages from the PR audit trail made it to my mailbox since I posted patch there. I am interested in any success/new breakage reports from users who have tested this patch already. -- Alexander Kabaev To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 18:53:36 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mail.coursepeek.com (stan.coursepeek.com [64.168.142.171]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97F6137B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:53:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 50940 invoked by uid 1001); 22 Feb 2002 02:53:54 -0000 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:53:54 -0800 From: J Turner To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020221185354.A50908@stan.jamwt.com> References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org>; from bright@mu.org on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Disk IO can't be done in a non-blocking manner. If the kernel doesn't > have the portion of the file you wish to read in the buffer cache > then the process will block waiting. Isn't this exactly what the kqueue mechanism circumvents? I'm soooo confused.... - Jamie To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Thu Feb 21 23:11:47 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from sonic.kks.net (sonic.kks.net [213.161.0.18]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5AD37B402 for ; Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:11:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from voyager.kksonline.com (5-51.ro.cable.kks.net [213.161.5.51]) by sonic.kks.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 008F4288 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 07:58:52 +0100 (CET) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.0.20020221180657.02bbc8d8@213.161.0.10> X-Sender: arozman@ 213.161.0.10 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 18:13:58 +0100 To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG From: Aleksander Rozman - Andy Subject: Re: Clearcase and FreeBSD In-Reply-To: <20020221145425.GA22885@ussenterprise.ufp.org> References: <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> <20020217161249.D0B2B3235@ns1.rwwa.com> <5.0.2.1.0.20020220214519.02b98280@213.161.0.10> <200202210204.g1L245H20108@clmboh1-smtp3.columbus.rr.com> <3C74716E.E36286FF@mindspring.com> <15476.30005.502996.945006@guru.mired.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG At 21.2.2002, Leo Bicknell wrote: >In a message written on Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 10:19:01PM -0600, Mike Meyer >wrote: > > Not necessarily. The client is free, and in the ports tree. That > > includes the server with an evaluation license, which limits it to two > > clients and two users. Perforce offers Open Source software projects > > free multiuser - which means unlimited clients - licenses. See > http://www.perforce.com/perforce/price.html > and search for "open > > source" on the page. They even point to the FreeBSD license as a good > > choice for a candidate. > >While necessary for a project like FreeBSD, this is not sufficient. >FreeBSD (and BSD in general) has outlived a number of companies >and technologies, and if Perforce went down the tubes and there >was no source we could have a major problem. > >Now, where did I put my SCCS copy of the tree... I think that for FreeBSD as such, CVS is so far the best sollution. It's free, it's good and is open. Company I work for used ClearCase so far, but we are now slowly migrating towards CVS (money thing you know). Team in which I work uses MKS SI (MKS Source Integrity) and it's hell, if we compare it to cvs. I don't use it long, but I like it. It has several options of using different clients in different environments, so I hope FreeBSD will stay on it. Andy ************************************************************************** * Aleksander Rozman - Andy * Fandoms: E2:EA, SAABer, Trekkie, Earthie * * andy@kksonline.com * Sentinel, BH 90210, True's Trooper, * * andy@atechnet.dhs.org * Heller's Angel, Questie, Legacy, PO5, * * Maribor, Slovenia (Europe) * Profiler, Buffy (Slayerete), Pretender * * ICQ-UIC: 4911125 ********************************************* * PGP key available * http://www.atechnet.dhs.org/~andy/ * *****************************************************************- ********* To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 3:59:44 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB0A537B404; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 03:59:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (kame201.kame.net [203.178.141.201]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (8.11.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g1MBxIo86481; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:59:19 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 20:59:18 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Edwin Groothuis Cc: Miguel Mendez , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPv6-over-IPv4 problems since the upgrade to 4.5 In-Reply-To: <20020217122510.D491@k7.mavetju.org> References: <0D9185CE635BD511ACA50090277A6FCF1359DB@axcs18.cos.agilent.com> <20020216130842.A19081@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020217122510.D491@k7.mavetju.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.7.5 (Too Funky) Emacs/21.1 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 21 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:25:10 +1100, >>>>> Edwin Groothuis said: >> I recently installed the freenet6 port to test IPv6 and have been >> experiencing similar problems, I can ping6 any host but my ftp >> connections stall at some point. >> >> As an alternative you can use Hurricane Electric's free tunnel. I'm >> using it now and it works like a champ. > I found what caused this. he.net uses the "route add -inet6 default > " statement while freenet6.net uses "route add -inet6 > default -interface gif0" statement. Could you tell me the exact address of ? Is it a link-local address, or a global one? JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 4:48:49 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from topaz.mdcc.cx (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 822DD37B402; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 04:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from k7.mavetju.org (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by topaz.mdcc.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0B882B6BD; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:48:38 +0100 (CET) Received: by k7.mavetju.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 151A1725; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:48:29 +1100 (EST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:48:29 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPv6-over-IPv4 problems since the upgrade to 4.5 Message-ID: <20020222234829.F492@k7.mavetju.org> Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Groothuis , "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG References: <0D9185CE635BD511ACA50090277A6FCF1359DB@axcs18.cos.agilent.com> <20020216130842.A19081@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020217122510.D491@k7.mavetju.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:59:18PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 08:59:18PM +0900, JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B wrote: > >>>>> On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:25:10 +1100, > >>>>> Edwin Groothuis said: > > >> I recently installed the freenet6 port to test IPv6 and have been > >> experiencing similar problems, I can ping6 any host but my ftp > >> connections stall at some point. > >> > >> As an alternative you can use Hurricane Electric's free tunnel. I'm > >> using it now and it works like a champ. > > > I found what caused this. he.net uses the "route add -inet6 default > > " statement while freenet6.net uses "route add -inet6 > > default -interface gif0" statement. > > Could you tell me the exact address of ? Is it a > link-local address, or a global one? Routing tables: default 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 UGSc gif0 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 UH gif0 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 link#9 UHL lo0 And the interface configuration: gif0: flags=8051 mtu 1280 tunnel inet 203.173.130.126 --> 206.123.31.114 inet6 fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x9 inet6 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 prefixlen 128 This is the situation when it works (i.e. with "route add -inet6 default ") Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.MavEtJu.org edwin@mavetju.org | Interested in MUDs? Visit Fatal Dimensions: ------------------+ http://www.FatalDimensions.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 6:50:12 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8ACC637B400; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 06:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([3ffe:501:4819:2000:b58f:942d:88f8:e401]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (8.11.6/8.9.1) with ESMTP id g1MEo2o87750; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:50:02 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:49:59 +0900 Message-ID: From: JINMEI Tatuya / =?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCP0BMQEMjOkgbKEI=?= To: Edwin Groothuis Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPv6-over-IPv4 problems since the upgrade to 4.5 In-Reply-To: <20020222234829.F492@k7.mavetju.org> References: <0D9185CE635BD511ACA50090277A6FCF1359DB@axcs18.cos.agilent.com> <20020216130842.A19081@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020217122510.D491@k7.mavetju.org> <20020222234829.F492@k7.mavetju.org> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.7.5 (Too Funky) Emacs/21.1 Mule/5.0 (SAKAKI) Organization: Research & Development Center, Toshiba Corp., Kawasaki, Japan. MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Dispatcher: imput version 980905(IM100) Lines: 28 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG >>>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:48:29 +1100, >>>>> Edwin Groothuis said: >> > I found what caused this. he.net uses the "route add -inet6 default >> > " statement while freenet6.net uses "route add -inet6 >> > default -interface gif0" statement. >> >> Could you tell me the exact address of ? Is it a >> link-local address, or a global one? > Routing tables: > default 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 UGSc gif0 > 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 UH gif0 > 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 link#9 UHL lo0 > And the interface configuration: > gif0: flags=8051 mtu 1280 > tunnel inet 203.173.130.126 --> 206.123.31.114 > inet6 fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x9 > inet6 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 prefixlen 128 Hmm, and what command did you type to cause this problem? If possible, please give me the network topology as well. JINMEI, Tatuya Communication Platform Lab. Corporate R&D Center, Toshiba Corp. jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 8:11:18 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from elvis.mu.org (elvis.mu.org [192.203.228.196]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 754E937B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:11:12 -0800 (PST) Received: by elvis.mu.org (Postfix, from userid 1192) id 52D08AE2C3; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:11:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 08:11:12 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: J Turner Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: In-Kernel HTTP Server (name preference) Message-ID: <20020222161112.GL12136@elvis.mu.org> References: <20020219092058.A78717@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219175431.A12535@host213-123-131-110.in-addr.bto> <20020219180004.GO12136@elvis.mu.org> <20020221185354.A50908@stan.jamwt.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020221185354.A50908@stan.jamwt.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Why would you reply to me but not include me in the CC? * J Turner [020221 18:53] wrote: > On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 10:00:04AM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > Disk IO can't be done in a non-blocking manner. If the kernel doesn't > > have the portion of the file you wish to read in the buffer cache > > then the process will block waiting. > > Isn't this exactly what the kqueue mechanism circumvents? No, neither poll(2), kqueue(2) nor most filesystems have mechanism doing async IO without using heavyweight processes. (however this is on the verge of being fixed via Julian's KSE work) -- -Alfred Perlstein [alfred@freebsd.org] 'Instead of asking why a piece of software is using "1970s technology," start asking why software is ignoring 30 years of accumulated wisdom.' Tax deductible donations for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsdfoundation.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 9:12:41 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from gidgate.gid.co.uk (gid.co.uk [194.32.164.225]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F32937B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:12:35 -0800 (PST) Received: (from rb@localhost) by gidgate.gid.co.uk (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1MHCEO42869; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:12:14 GMT (envelope-from rb) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20020222165515.00c14850@gid.co.uk> X-Sender: rbmail@gid.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:05:41 +0000 To: Doug Ambrisko From: Bob Bishop Subject: Re: Multicast problem with sis interface? Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG In-Reply-To: <200202192110.g1JLAFq02842@ambrisko.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, At 13:10 19/02/02 -0800, Doug Ambrisko wrote: >Bob Bishop writes: >| No dice with last night's -STABLE. And it's definitely the interface, I've >| tried a variety and netatalk works with everything (including the dreaded >| Via Rhine) except for the onboard sis0. >| >| I suppose it's time for some comparative tcpdumping... > >Pity that would have been an easy fix. Doing tcpdump should help. >I like Ethereal so I can drill down a little easier. This is what tcpdump (on a disinterested machine) sees: sis - fails: 20:53:43.423585 255.0.158.nis > 0.0.nis: nbp-lkup 1: "=:=@*" [addr=255.0.158.128] aaaa 0308 0007 809b 001a 8369 0000 ff00 ff9e 0202 0221 01ff 009e 8000 013d 013d 012a ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff ffff vr - works: 20:54:55.022827 255.0.158.nis > 0.0.nis: nbp-lkup 1: "=:=@*" [addr=255.0.158.128] aaaa 0308 0007 809b 001a 8369 0000 ff00 ff9e 0202 0221 01ff 009e 8000 013d 013d 012a 0050 baec bd66 00ff 009e 0000 Those trailing 1's look suspicious to me. The NBP lookup packet is only 48 bytes, so needs padding to the ethernet minimum 60 on the wire. I suspect this isn't happening on the sis. The packets are otherwise well-formed (and the ethernet headers (not shown above) are correct). I suppose I could dig out the 'scope... -- Bob Bishop +44 (0)118 977 4017 rb@gid.co.uk fax +44 (0)118 989 4254 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 9:16:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from chiark.greenend.org.uk (chiark.greenend.org.uk [212.22.195.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CBEA37B419 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 09:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from andrewm by chiark.greenend.org.uk with local (Exim 3.12 #2) id 16eJJO-00044H-00 (Debian); Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:16:46 +0000 From: Andrew Mobbs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 17:16:46 +0000 (GMT) To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: msync performance X-Mailer: VM 6.72 under 21.1 (patch 10) "Capitol Reef" XEmacs Lucid Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG I recently raised PR 35195 Details are in the PR, but in summary; performing a large amount of random IO to a large file through mmap, on a machine with a fair amount of free RAM, will cause a following msync to take a significant amount of time. I believe this is because msync walks the dirty buffer list by age, therefor will write blocks out in an order liable to cause a lot of disk seeks. My suggestion for a solution would be before starting the IO, to sort the dirty buffer list by location on logical disk, and coalesce adjacent blocks where possible. Before I volunteer to implement something like this, please could somebody check I'm correct in my analysis, and comment on the feasibility of my suggested solution. Thanks, -- Andrew Mobbs - http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~andrewm/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 10:10:37 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0808E37B402 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:10:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0467.cvx22-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([209.179.199.212] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eK9C-000660-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:10:18 -0800 Message-ID: <3C768980.F823B2D0@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 10:10:08 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Andrew Mobbs Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Andrew Mobbs wrote: > I recently raised PR 35195 > > Details are in the PR, but in summary; performing a large amount of > random IO to a large file through mmap, on a machine with a fair amount > of free RAM, will cause a following msync to take a significant amount > of time. > > I believe this is because msync walks the dirty buffer list by age, > therefor will write blocks out in an order liable to cause a lot of > disk seeks. Before jumping into it so heavily, note that msync schedules everything for write when len == 0, and has a couple of other bogosities that make it's performance suck in corner cases (e.g. clean pages are handled wrong). If you are exercising one of the corner cases, then it's going to exacerbate the problem. > My suggestion for a solution would be before starting the IO, to sort > the dirty buffer list by location on logical disk, and coalesce > adjacent blocks where possible. > > Before I volunteer to implement something like this, please could > somebody check I'm correct in my analysis, and comment on the > feasibility of my suggested solution. I think this would work, but I think there is other stuff in the performance path. Specifically, look at the comment on coelescing/splitting of regions in vm_mmap.c. It's probably still a win to do what you suggest, but if you dropped out the clean pages, you'd probably have a bunch of discontigous pages anyway, and the rotational latency would actually pessimize things. But avoiding the unnecessary seeks would probably make up for it. Basically, you'd have to test it by writing the code. 8-). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 11: 7:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F66737B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1MJ79S18449; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:07:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 11:07:09 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200202221907.g1MJ79S18449@apollo.backplane.com> To: Andrew Mobbs Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I recently raised PR 35195 : :Details are in the PR, but in summary; performing a large amount of :random IO to a large file through mmap, on a machine with a fair amount :of free RAM, will cause a following msync to take a significant amount :of time. : :I believe this is because msync walks the dirty buffer list by age, :therefor will write blocks out in an order liable to cause a lot of :disk seeks. : :My suggestion for a solution would be before starting the IO, to sort :the dirty buffer list by location on logical disk, and coalesce :adjacent blocks where possible. : :Before I volunteer to implement something like this, please could :somebody check I'm correct in my analysis, and comment on the :feasibility of my suggested solution. : :Thanks, : :-- :Andrew Mobbs - http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~andrewm/ The problem is typically that the backing file was created through ftruncate() and thus has no filesystem blocks allocated to it. Unless you manage the dirty the entire file via your mmap in fairly short order, the syncer will come around every so often and try to msync it. Typically this means that only some of the pages are dirty and they get filesystem blocks allocated to them but there wind up still being a whole lot more pages that have not yet been touched. The next syncer round will get more of these pages but their filesystem blocks will be completely fragmented compared to the first syncer round. And so forth. Additionally, memory pressure may force the pageout daemon to flush pages to the file. This will occur mostly randomly. The result is a massively fragmented file. Once you have a file that is that badly fragmented it won't matter whether you sort the blocks or not. The soluion is to not use ftruncate() to create such files but to instead pre-create the file by filling it with zero's. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 12:43:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5FA2F37B404 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:43:33 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1MKg4u22700; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:42:04 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:42:04 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> To: Andrew Mobbs Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re2: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I recently raised PR 35195 : :Details are in the PR, but in summary; performing a large amount of :random IO to a large file through mmap, on a machine with a fair amount :of free RAM, will cause a following msync to take a significant amount :of time. : :I believe this is because msync walks the dirty buffer list by age, :therefor will write blocks out in an order liable to cause a lot of :disk seeks. : :My suggestion for a solution would be before starting the IO, to sort :the dirty buffer list by location on logical disk, and coalesce :adjacent blocks where possible. : :Before I volunteer to implement something like this, please could :somebody check I'm correct in my analysis, and comment on the :feasibility of my suggested solution. : :Thanks, : :-- :Andrew Mobbs - http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~andrewm/ I've looked at this some more. I can fairly trivially improve sequential write efficiency of msync() is called on a range of dirty pages, and I can use the same code when msync() is called on a complete file *IF* the file is fairly small (no more then a hundred pages or so). But we have a serious problem when msync() is called on a very large file that may only contain a few dirty pages. For example, if you have a 20GB file and you are mmap()ing portions of it, we can't iterate through the file offsets sequentially without eating an enormous amount of cpu (as in several seconds worth of cpu or even several minutes). In this case we have to scan the object page list, which is not sorted. Even so the existing msync() code *DOES* cluster pages together into 64K chunks (though I notice that it does not appear to cluster the raw I/O). So, this falls back to your suggested solution.... sort object->memq (it's the actual page queue that is the problem, not the object queue). Looking at it some more I believe this may be a viable solution. I am going to work something up. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 13:18:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from thalia.fm.intel.com (fmfdns02.fm.intel.com [132.233.247.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9799837B400; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxv042-1.fm.intel.com [132.233.48.110]) by thalia.fm.intel.com (8.9.1a+p1/8.9.1/d: relay.m4,v 1.51 2002/02/19 21:12:32 root Exp $) with SMTP id VAA00427; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:18:34 GMT Received: from FMSMSX017.fm.intel.com ([132.233.42.196]) by fmsmsxvs042.fm.intel.com (NAVGW 2.5.1.16) with SMTP id M2002022213212704355 ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:21:27 -0800 Received: by fmsmsx017.fm.intel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:34 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Frost, Stephen C" To: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" Cc: "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: PCI Probing Utility? Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:31 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Oh FreeBSD Gurus... I tried throwing this out to the 'Questions' listserver and got zero reply. So.... Is there some quick, down & dirty way of assessing the bus-speeds of PCI slots/busses on a given box? I have a whole rack of systems with FreeBSD 4.5 on 'em, and need to know the PCI bus configuration for each. Thank you in advance for your reply directly to this email account. Best - -=C. Stephen Frost=- Intel Corp. ICG - Network Quality Labs Software Test Engineer 503.264.8300 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 13:40:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (rwcrmhc54.attbi.com [216.148.227.87]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF30737B419; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:40:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc54.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020222214010.GCCF1214.rwcrmhc54.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 21:40:10 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA74920; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:25:15 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:25:15 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: "Frost, Stephen C" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI Probing Utility? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG try man pciconf On Fri, 22 Feb 2002, Frost, Stephen C wrote: > > Oh FreeBSD Gurus... > > I tried throwing this out to the 'Questions' listserver and got zero reply. > So.... > > Is there some quick, down & dirty way of assessing the bus-speeds of PCI > slots/busses on a given box? I have a whole rack of systems with FreeBSD > 4.5 on 'em, and need to know the PCI bus configuration for each. > > Thank you in advance for your reply directly to this email account. > > Best - > > -=C. Stephen Frost=- > Intel Corp. > ICG - Network Quality Labs > Software Test Engineer > 503.264.8300 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 13:46:40 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from topaz.mdcc.cx (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E85B437B417; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:46:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from k7.mavetju.org (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by topaz.mdcc.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 905B12B6BE; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 22:46:21 +0100 (CET) Received: by k7.mavetju.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 8511D247; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:46:16 +1100 (EST) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:46:16 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B" Cc: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: IPv6-over-IPv4 problems since the upgrade to 4.5 Message-ID: <20020223084616.G492@k7.mavetju.org> Mail-Followup-To: Edwin Groothuis , "JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG, freebsd-net@FreeBSD.ORG References: <0D9185CE635BD511ACA50090277A6FCF1359DB@axcs18.cos.agilent.com> <20020216130842.A19081@energyhq.homeip.net> <20020217122510.D491@k7.mavetju.org> <20020222234829.F492@k7.mavetju.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: ; from jinmei@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp on Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:49:59PM +0900 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Fri, Feb 22, 2002 at 11:49:59PM +0900, JINMEI Tatuya / ?$B?@L@C#:H?(B wrote: > >>>>> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 23:48:29 +1100, > >>>>> Edwin Groothuis said: > > >> > I found what caused this. he.net uses the "route add -inet6 default > >> > " statement while freenet6.net uses "route add -inet6 > >> > default -interface gif0" statement. > >> > >> Could you tell me the exact address of ? Is it a > >> link-local address, or a global one? > > > Routing tables: > > default 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 UGSc gif0 > > 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 UH gif0 > > 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 link#9 UHL lo0 > > > And the interface configuration: > > gif0: flags=8051 mtu 1280 > > tunnel inet 203.173.130.126 --> 206.123.31.114 > > inet6 fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%gif0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x9 > > inet6 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 --> 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 prefixlen 128 > > Hmm, and what command did you type to cause this problem? If possible, > please give me the network topology as well. The problem was when "route add -inet6 default -interface gif0" was used instead of the "route ... ". For the rest the configuration and the commands were the same. This is a layout of the 'network': +----------------------------------------------+ |MyBox | |----------------------------------------------| +- ISP ---|tun0 by ppp: | | | - 203.173.130.71/24 -> 203.56.8.99 | | | - fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%tun0 prefixlen 64 | | |gif0 tunnel to 206.123.31.114 via tun0 | | | - 3ffe:b80:2:460::2 prefixlen 128 | | |vmnet1: | Internet | - 192.168.0.1/24 | | | - fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%tun0 prefixlen 64 | | |fxp0: |--- Mac with | | - 192.168.1.1/24 | 192.168.1.2 | | - fe80::250:8bff:feb9:2d24%fxp0 prefixlen 64 | | +----------------------------------------------+ | | | +----------------------------------------------+ | |FreeNet6.net | | |----------------------------------------------+ +- ISP ---|some interface | | - 206.123.31.114/something | |IPv6 tunnel to 203.173.130.71 | | - 3ffe:b80:2:460::1 prefixlen 128 | +----------------------------------------------+ The symptons were that if I setup a TCP-session, the original message is at: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=279914+284924+/usr/local/www/db/text/2002/freebsd-hackers/20020217.freebsd-hackers Thanks for your questions, Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.MavEtJu.org edwin@mavetju.org | Interested in MUDs? Visit Fatal Dimensions: ------------------+ http://www.FatalDimensions.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14: 6: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F137C37B402 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:05:43 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1MM1f431236; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:01:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:01:41 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200202222201.g1MM1f431236@apollo.backplane.com> To: Andrew Mobbs , Paul Saab , Peter Wemm Cc: hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Test patch for msync/object-flushing performance (for stable) References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Ok, here is a test patch. Now, there are some instructions to go along with this patch, so continue reading. I have implemented two optimizations. You can turn either or both (or neither) on with a sysctl. I would like those interested to test all four combinations. Be sure to delete any test files and 'sync' a couple of times between each test run so you do not skew the results. sysctl -w vm.msync_flush_flags=0 No optimizations. We don't try to sort the object flush (original behavior). This is the default for this test patch. sysctl -w vm.msync_flush_flags=1 Hard sequential optimization. Attempt to locate sequential pages by indexing through the requested flush range, performing vm_page_lookup()'s. If we miss more then a certain number in a row, however, we break out of the loop (otherwise this can lockup the system when flushing a very large multi-gigabyte or multi-terrabyte object). This optimization works best when the user is msync()ing a specific known-to-be-mostly-dirty page range. The only downside is that this can eat more cpu for other cases. However, the upside is that for huge objects and small page ranges this optimization allows us to completely avoid scanning the object's memq, yielding an extreme performance benefit. sysctl -w vm.msync_flush_flags=2 Soft sequential optimization during object->memq scan. vm_object_page_clean() already attempts to cluster write operations but is limited to around 16 pages. This optimization attempts to 'glue' clustered ops together by looking for the next sequential page after the cluster that was just flushed and jumping to it for the next cluster. sysctl -w vm.msync_flush_flags=3 This turns on both optimizations. I do not formally sort the object->memq. I looked at doing so but it looked fairly expensive. -Matt Index: vm/vm_object.c =================================================================== RCS file: /home/ncvs/src/sys/vm/vm_object.c,v retrieving revision 1.171.2.5 diff -u -r1.171.2.5 vm_object.c --- vm/vm_object.c 3 Nov 2001 19:59:28 -0000 1.171.2.5 +++ vm/vm_object.c 22 Feb 2002 21:52:03 -0000 @@ -75,6 +75,8 @@ #include #include #include +#include +#include #include #include @@ -89,7 +91,18 @@ #include #include -static void vm_object_qcollapse __P((vm_object_t object)); +#define EASY_SCAN_FACTOR 8 + +#define MSYNC_FLUSH_HARDSEQUENTIAL 0x01 +#define MSYNC_FLUSH_SOFTSEQUENTIAL 0x02 + +static int msync_flush_flags = 0; +SYSCTL_INT(_vm, OID_AUTO, msync_flush_flags, + CTLFLAG_RW, &msync_flush_flags, 0, ""); + + +static void vm_object_qcollapse (vm_object_t object); +static int vm_object_page_collect_flush(vm_object_t object, vm_page_t p, int curgeneration, int pagerflags); /* * Virtual memory objects maintain the actual data @@ -506,21 +519,12 @@ vm_pindex_t end; int flags; { - vm_page_t p, np, tp; + vm_page_t p, np; vm_offset_t tstart, tend; vm_pindex_t pi; - int s; struct vnode *vp; - int runlen; - int maxf; - int chkb; - int maxb; - int i; int clearobjflags; int pagerflags; - vm_page_t maf[vm_pageout_page_count]; - vm_page_t mab[vm_pageout_page_count]; - vm_page_t ma[vm_pageout_page_count]; int curgeneration; if (object->type != OBJT_VNODE || @@ -534,6 +538,9 @@ vm_object_set_flag(object, OBJ_CLEANING); + /* + * Handle 'entire object' case + */ tstart = start; if (end == 0) { tend = object->size; @@ -542,6 +549,72 @@ } /* + * If the caller is smart and only msync()s a range he knows is + * dirty, we may be able to avoid an object scan. This results in + * a phenominal improvement in performance. We cannot do this + * as a matter of course because the object may be huge - e.g. + * the size might be in the gigabytes or terrabytes. + */ + if (msync_flush_flags & MSYNC_FLUSH_HARDSEQUENTIAL) { + vm_offset_t tscan; + int scanlimit; + int scanreset; + + scanreset = object->resident_page_count / EASY_SCAN_FACTOR; + if (scanreset < 16) + scanreset = 16; + + scanlimit = scanreset; + tscan = tstart; + while (tscan < tend) { + curgeneration = object->generation; + p = vm_page_lookup(object, tscan); + if (p == NULL || p->valid == 0 || + (p->queue - p->pc) == PQ_CACHE) { + if (--scanlimit == 0) + break; + ++tscan; + continue; + } + vm_page_test_dirty(p); + if ((p->dirty & p->valid) == 0) { + if (--scanlimit == 0) + break; + ++tscan; + continue; + } + /* + * If we have been asked to skip nosync pages and + * this is a nosync page, we can't continue. + */ + if ((flags & OBJPC_NOSYNC) && (p->flags & PG_NOSYNC)) { + if (--scanlimit == 0) + break; + ++tscan; + continue; + } + scanlimit = scanreset; + + /* + * This returns 0 if it was unable to busy the first + * page (i.e. had to sleep). + */ + tscan += vm_object_page_collect_flush(object, p, curgeneration, pagerflags); + } + + /* + * If everything was dirty and we flushed it successfully, + * and the requested range is not the entire object, we + * don't have to mess with CLEANCHK or MIGHTBEDIRTY and can + * return immediately. + */ + if (tscan >= tend && (tstart || tend < object->size)) { + vm_object_clear_flag(object, OBJ_CLEANING); + return; + } + } + + /* * Generally set CLEANCHK interlock and make the page read-only so * we can then clear the object flags. * @@ -578,8 +651,11 @@ curgeneration = object->generation; for(p = TAILQ_FIRST(&object->memq); p; p = np) { + int n; + np = TAILQ_NEXT(p, listq); +again: pi = p->pindex; if (((p->flags & PG_CLEANCHK) == 0) || (pi < tstart) || (pi >= tend) || @@ -605,17 +681,86 @@ continue; } - s = splvm(); - while (vm_page_sleep_busy(p, TRUE, "vpcwai")) { - if (object->generation != curgeneration) { - splx(s); - goto rescan; + n = vm_object_page_collect_flush(object, p, + curgeneration, pagerflags); + if (n == 0) + goto rescan; + if (object->generation != curgeneration) + goto rescan; + + /* + * Try to optimize the next page. If we can't we pick up + * our (random) scan where we left off. + */ + if (msync_flush_flags & MSYNC_FLUSH_SOFTSEQUENTIAL) { + if ((p = vm_page_lookup(object, pi + n)) != NULL) + goto again; + } + } + +#if 0 + VOP_FSYNC(vp, NULL, (pagerflags & VM_PAGER_PUT_SYNC)?MNT_WAIT:0, curproc); +#endif + + vm_object_clear_flag(object, OBJ_CLEANING); + return; +} + +static int +vm_object_page_collect_flush(vm_object_t object, vm_page_t p, int curgeneration, int pagerflags) +{ + int runlen; + int s; + int maxf; + int chkb; + int maxb; + int i; + vm_pindex_t pi; + vm_page_t maf[vm_pageout_page_count]; + vm_page_t mab[vm_pageout_page_count]; + vm_page_t ma[vm_pageout_page_count]; + + s = splvm(); + pi = p->pindex; + while (vm_page_sleep_busy(p, TRUE, "vpcwai")) { + if (object->generation != curgeneration) { + splx(s); + return(0); + } + } + + maxf = 0; + for(i = 1; i < vm_pageout_page_count; i++) { + vm_page_t tp; + + if ((tp = vm_page_lookup(object, pi + i)) != NULL) { + if ((tp->flags & PG_BUSY) || + (tp->flags & PG_CLEANCHK) == 0 || + (tp->busy != 0)) + break; + if((tp->queue - tp->pc) == PQ_CACHE) { + vm_page_flag_clear(tp, PG_CLEANCHK); + break; + } + vm_page_test_dirty(tp); + if ((tp->dirty & tp->valid) == 0) { + vm_page_flag_clear(tp, PG_CLEANCHK); + break; } + maf[ i - 1 ] = tp; + maxf++; + continue; } + break; + } + + maxb = 0; + chkb = vm_pageout_page_count - maxf; + if (chkb) { + for(i = 1; i < chkb;i++) { + vm_page_t tp; - maxf = 0; - for(i=1;iflags & PG_BUSY) || (tp->flags & PG_CLEANCHK) == 0 || (tp->busy != 0)) @@ -629,71 +774,45 @@ vm_page_flag_clear(tp, PG_CLEANCHK); break; } - maf[ i - 1 ] = tp; - maxf++; + mab[ i - 1 ] = tp; + maxb++; continue; } break; } + } - maxb = 0; - chkb = vm_pageout_page_count - maxf; - if (chkb) { - for(i = 1; i < chkb;i++) { - if ((tp = vm_page_lookup(object, pi - i)) != NULL) { - if ((tp->flags & PG_BUSY) || - (tp->flags & PG_CLEANCHK) == 0 || - (tp->busy != 0)) - break; - if((tp->queue - tp->pc) == PQ_CACHE) { - vm_page_flag_clear(tp, PG_CLEANCHK); - break; - } - vm_page_test_dirty(tp); - if ((tp->dirty & tp->valid) == 0) { - vm_page_flag_clear(tp, PG_CLEANCHK); - break; - } - mab[ i - 1 ] = tp; - maxb++; - continue; - } - break; - } - } + for(i = 0; i < maxb; i++) { + int index = (maxb - i) - 1; + ma[index] = mab[i]; + vm_page_flag_clear(ma[index], PG_CLEANCHK); + } + vm_page_flag_clear(p, PG_CLEANCHK); + ma[maxb] = p; + for(i = 0; i < maxf; i++) { + int index = (maxb + i) + 1; + ma[index] = maf[i]; + vm_page_flag_clear(ma[index], PG_CLEANCHK); + } + runlen = maxb + maxf + 1; - for(i=0;ivalid & ma[i]->dirty) { - vm_page_protect(ma[i], VM_PROT_READ); - vm_page_flag_set(ma[i], PG_CLEANCHK); - } + splx(s); + vm_pageout_flush(ma, runlen, pagerflags); + for (i = 0; i < runlen; i++) { + if (ma[i]->valid & ma[i]->dirty) { + vm_page_protect(ma[i], VM_PROT_READ); + vm_page_flag_set(ma[i], PG_CLEANCHK); + + /* + * maxf will end up being the actual number of pages + * we wrote out contiguously, non-inclusive of the + * first page. We do not count look-behind pages. + */ + if (i >= maxb + 1 && (maxf > i - maxb - 1)) + maxf = i - maxb - 1; } - if (object->generation != curgeneration) - goto rescan; } - -#if 0 - VOP_FSYNC(vp, NULL, (pagerflags & VM_PAGER_PUT_SYNC)?MNT_WAIT:0, curproc); -#endif - - vm_object_clear_flag(object, OBJ_CLEANING); - return; + return(maxf + 1); } #ifdef not_used To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:10:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 135A137B405 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:10:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0057.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.57] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eNtY-0003qX-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:10:24 -0800 Message-ID: <3C76C1C7.248128A4@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:10:15 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Andrew Mobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re2: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > So, this falls back to your suggested solution.... sort > object->memq (it's the actual page queue that is the problem, > not the object queue). Looking at it some more I believe > this may be a viable solution. I am going to work something > up. You will need to put it on two lists, I think. Though it is not sorted in adjacency order, it is sorted into LRU order, I think, and simply resorting by adjacency would destroy the LRU property. Maybe you could sort it on demand, and not keep the sort list? Alternately, does msync() use count as "use" for the purposes of LRU? If so, I'm all wet, and sorting it will work, if it's only done at msync() time (e.g. you won't be able to use an insertion sort). -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:19: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A729D37B423; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0057.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.57] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eO1Y-0000Xa-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:18:40 -0800 Message-ID: <3C76C3B6.146FC817@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:18:30 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Frost, Stephen C" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI Probing Utility? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG "Frost, Stephen C" wrote: > Oh FreeBSD Gurus... > > I tried throwing this out to the 'Questions' listserver and got zero reply. > So.... > > Is there some quick, down & dirty way of assessing the bus-speeds of PCI > slots/busses on a given box? I have a whole rack of systems with FreeBSD > 4.5 on 'em, and need to know the PCI bus configuration for each. > > Thank you in advance for your reply directly to this email account. There are a couple of ways: 1) Read the specs on the hardware 2) Transfer data on and off some card memory for a card known to be in the machine, and using the cycle counter and you knowledge of the clock rate from sysctl space to calculate it If you use the second method, you will be able to tell 32 bit 33Mhz and 64 bit 66Mhz, but you won't be able to tell between a 64 bit card in a 32 bit slot and a 32 bit card in a 64 bit slot. Very annoying. 8-). I recommend #1. A third method that would require driver hacks would be to do a series of small disk DMAs and time them for size and size *2 so that they fit entirely in disk cache. The DMA code isn't sufficiently instrumented for this, though. A fourth method, which may or may not exist, is to make a BIOS call and simply ask the hardware how fast it thinks it is... being as you're at Intel, you chould have the PCI technical documentation in your technical library. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:25:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net (snipe.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.62]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC39C37B404; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:25:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0057.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.57] helo=mindspring.com) by snipe.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eO7p-0001rf-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:25:09 -0800 Message-ID: <3C76C53B.4566898B@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:24:59 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: "Frost, Stephen C" , "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI Probing Utility? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > try > man pciconf I guess if you had a chip to clock rate database, and no chip rated at 66 was ever run at 33, taking the bridge information from this would let you look up the bus speed... -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:40:29 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79C0F37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:40:27 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1MMeQP31567; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:40:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:40:26 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200202222240.g1MMeQP31567@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Andrew Mobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re2: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> <3C76C1C7.248128A4@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :You will need to put it on two lists, I think. : :Though it is not sorted in adjacency order, it is sorted :into LRU order, I think, and simply resorting by adjacency :would destroy the LRU property. Nope, object->memq is not sorted in any order whatsover. :Alternately, does msync() use count as "use" for the :purposes of LRU? If so, I'm all wet, and sorting it will :work, if it's only done at msync() time (e.g. you won't :be able to use an insertion sort). : :-- Terry What 'count' are you refering to? -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:46:19 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA7B437B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:46:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0057.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.57] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eORD-0001ou-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:45:11 -0800 Message-ID: <3C76C9ED.B26C5F27@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:45:01 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Andrew Mobbs , Paul Saab , Peter Wemm , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Test patch for msync/object-flushing performance (for stable) References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> <200202222201.g1MM1f431236@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > > Ok, here is a test patch. Now, there are some instructions to go along > with this patch, so continue reading. Pretty impressive. In the highly fragges context of the original PR, I expect that the improvement won't be that great, but for the rest of us, it's pretty cool. Why did you default them off instead of on? -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 14:50:48 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net (albatross.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.120]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9FA37B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:50:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0057.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.57] helo=mindspring.com) by albatross.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eOWT-0001lS-00; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:50:37 -0800 Message-ID: <3C76CB33.988E246F@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 14:50:27 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Andrew Mobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re2: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> <3C76C1C7.248128A4@mindspring.com> <200202222240.g1MMeQP31567@apollo.backplane.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Matthew Dillon wrote: > :You will need to put it on two lists, I think. > : > :Though it is not sorted in adjacency order, it is sorted > :into LRU order, I think, and simply resorting by adjacency > :would destroy the LRU property. > > Nope, object->memq is not sorted in any order whatsover. I saw your patch. Read other message. 8-). > :Alternately, does msync() use count as "use" for the > :purposes of LRU? If so, I'm all wet, and sorting it will > :work, if it's only done at msync() time (e.g. you won't > :be able to use an insertion sort). > > What 'count' are you refering to? That's "use count", not "usecount". It's "count" as in "has meaning as a significator". 8-). I mean does msync() preterb the LRU order, by counting as a recent use? It's probably wrong to preterb the order, since what you are doing is forcing pages *out*. If you want them *out*, then they probably have lower locality than the pages you decided not to force out. In other words, msync() should probably not change the LRU order. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Fri Feb 22 15: 8: 1 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E441937B400 for ; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:07:56 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.11.6/8.9.1) id g1MN7tb31783; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:07:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 15:07:55 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200202222307.g1MN7tb31783@apollo.backplane.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Andrew Mobbs , hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Re2: msync performance References: <15478.31998.459219.178549@chiark.greenend.org.uk> <200202222042.g1MKg4u22700@apollo.backplane.com> <3C76C1C7.248128A4@mindspring.com> <200202222240.g1MMeQP31567@apollo.backplane.com> <3C76CB33.988E246F@mindspring.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG :I mean does msync() preterb the LRU order, by counting as :a recent use? It's probably wrong to preterb the order, :since what you are doing is forcing pages *out*. If you :want them *out*, then they probably have lower locality :than the pages you decided not to force out. : :In other words, msync() should probably not change the :LRU order. : :-- Terry No, it has no effect on the vm_page's act_count. -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 4:55:55 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lyris.bestnet.net (lyris.bestnet.net [216.15.129.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 97ACB37B402 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:55:27 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: Lyris Web Interface Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 04:47:33 -0600 Subject: Three Free Psychology/Self-Improvement Software Downloads To: "mindmedia" From: "bruce@mindmedia.com" List-Unsubscribe: Reply-To: "mindmedia" Message-Id: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG MIND MEDIA REVIEW No.43 Introductory Edition Edited by Mead Rose Copy Editor: Will Penna ****************************************************************** When you think about self-improvement, think Mind Media! To visit our site, tune your favorite web browser to: http://www.mindmedia.com ****************************************************************** IN THIS SPECIAL ISSUE! ++ WELCOME TO MIND MEDIA -- HOME OF PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE WEB by Bruce Ehrlich, Founder of the Mindware Catalog ++ THREE FREE SOFTWARE DOWNLOADS YOU THAT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE -- DOWNLOAD SITES BELOW ++ FIVE SOFTWARE DOWNLOAD WEB SITES WORTH HAVING ON YOUR HARD DRIVE by Bruce Eisner ++ FIVE MINDWARE ONLINE APPLICATIONS YOU CAN VISIT TODAY by Bruce Eisner ++ FIVE FAVORITE MIND MEDIA PRODUCTS by the Mind Media Staff +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+ WELCOME TO MIND MEDIA -- HOME OF PERSONAL DEVELOPMENT ON THE WEB by Bruce Ehrlich, Founder of the Mindware Catalog This is a special issue of the Mindware Review. The Mindware Review is one of the longest running Internet newsletters -- having sent out its first issue to subscribers in early 1995. The publication is written by the Mind Media staff and is sent to a subscriber list which has now grown to over 100,000. I am sending it to you because you visited Mind Media Life-Enhancment Network so I know you are interested in what I call Mindware. Please excuse me if I sent it to you in error, Mind Media Review is about "Mindware" -- a term I coined back in 1988 to describe software that I had been collecting while I was finishing my doctorate in P.M. Actually, just when I was going to write my dissertation, I decided to start a small "side-business" called the Mindware catalog. The 32 page color catalog grew from a circulation of 5000 for issue mailed out in the spring of '88 to 500,000 mailed in the summer of 1994 -- our last issue. In a strange twist, the first issue of the Mindware catalog was called The Mindware Review -- which was the hot idea of a marketing company I had hired to put out the first issue. When I found out I could print 50,000 catalogs for about twice as much as 5,000, I left that company and found a local designer named Scott Sandow who was a great layout artist but an also had been in business and marketing his entire life. As someone who had come from Grad School (I didn't know the difference between an invoice and a purchase order), I was glad to have him spend hours with me figuring out what this mindware thing was all about and who would be interested in using it. This is an excerpt from the "Letter from the President" from that second Mindware catalog. "Welcome to Mindware! An extra dimension has been added to your personal computer with the arrival of a new genre of software we call mind appliances. These mind appliances cover many areas but share a common purpose: the enhancement of human intelligence in all its aspects - - and so our name became,"Mindware." Mindware was conceived and created to be more than a business in the normal sense. We sincerely believe that anyone can benefit from this new relationship between computers and the mind! By the time we had grown to half a million catalogs, we were the first catalog to have sold a CD-ROM drive along with CD-ROMs to play in them and also the first to sell voice recognition software. In a sense, we were kind of a "Sharper Image" of computer software as well as a self- improvement catalog. One half-million catalogs costs a lot to mail. Our post office bill was so large, I thought we should be given red carpet treatment at the post office -- but we had to stand in line like everyone else. Our team at Mindware was always dreaming of starting something like America Online or even to be given a section of AOL or than equally prominent CompuServe in order to replace or at least supplement the catalog. My main assistant at the time,Thad Atkins had a couple of friends who were starting a company to do catalogs on something called the World Wide Web. When I ordered an ISDN line and started browsing, I was sure that this was where I wanted real estate. So as the web began to become more than just a place for scientists, we were one of the earliest online. Our first web site was at mindware.com but we decided to create a larger site called the Mind Media Life- Enhancement Network so that we could feature more than just the Mindware Catalog Online. In 1995, we stopped printing catalogs and went entirely online. The same year, I came out with the first email edition of the Mindware Review. At the time there were only about a hundred online newsletters and so were actually read and even enjoyed (I got a lot of email asking questions when I wrote something which is how I know). But by the end of the decade, the Internet revolution occurred -- which actually made it more difficult for us in many ways. All of the good programmers and web artists were suddenly working for large corporations that formerly only had stores and advertised on TV. Search engines were selling ranking -- and we didn't have the money to pay. From less than twenty online catalogs that were around when we started, now there were 200,000. Many of them started what became known as the "dot comers" -- people who had made money in other businesses and now were getting Venture Capital which allowed them to out spend us by huge factors. Perhaps the one of the strangest stories of my twelve years in the computer human potential business was an event that took place in the fall of 1999. It was right in the middle of the Internet boom -- when you drove through Silicon Valley and saw billboards from VC companies. A woman called me. She told me that she had an online art gallery but that her first love was personal development -- the kind of products and services that we provide. She then told me she represented someone in the "self-help" field whose name I would instantly recognize. He had acquired a publicly traded shell (a stock in which the company no longer exists but which is still listed on a stock exchange -- a fast way of raising public money is to buy one of these "shells" and put your company and a few others together into it.). She was looking for a few good personal development sites which you could join together under this self-improvement figure. At one point, she had me on the line with a gentleman who asked me what my gross sales were. He had seen my business plan, which is posted on our web site and mistakenly took our projections based on one million dollars investment as our current earnings. When he found out we weren't making the projected figure, he hurriedly got off the phone. Who was the mysterious man? A few months afterward, Anthony Robbins launched his high-profile web site -- Dreamlife.com. And here is an excerpt from a January 10, 2000 Newsweek Magazine (International Edition) -- http://www.rickross.com/reference/general/general162.html -- article: "This much is clear: if success is the goal, the gurus have found it. Anthony Robbins leads the pack. Of all the gurus, he's most focused on the Net. Last summer Robbins took control of a publicly traded shell company whose stock cost just pennies a share and announced plans to build a self- improvement Web site, Dreamlife.com. The site still isn't operational, but investors don't seem to mind. Last week its stock stood at $16 a share, putting Robbins's stake at more than $300 million." Well Robbins site was slick and "did everything right" -- from personalized membership to an online interactive tutorial which identified the parts of life that needed improvement, complete with Tony Robbins voice and picture to guide you. I joined the site and was bombarded with Newsletters on a daily basis. Now in one of the business plans I wrote, before the Internet became so fashionable -- I suggested that Mind Media approach individuals such a Robbins, Deepak Chopra Stephen Covey. In "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and John Gray, the former Hindu monk from right here in Mind Media Country, Santa Cruz, California -- who wrote "Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus," with the idea of Mind Media using its expertise to give them a web presence. So when the VC money flowed like wine and all of the big guys jumped aboard, little Mind Media remained pretty much a slowly evolving web organism as it always had been. Well in mid-2001, a year after its launch, Dreamlife.com was dead. And Mind Media is still here.. Back in 1990, one of the software publishers I featured on in the Mindware Catalog, Bert Shaw, sent me this quotation which still hands on my bulletin board. "Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proconservation alone will not; the world is full of educated derelicts." The saying had nobody it was attributed to, so I decided to look it up on the web as I was wring this, I found out it was said by good old "Silent" Calvin Coolidge himself, so I thought about taking it down since he doesn't have much of a reputation] as he had articulated an idea missed by many in the trendy self- improvement arena. So this special issue is dedicated to the future of what I called Mindware back in 1988. Its come a long way. In this issue, I'll start with three free programs we give away on our site. Then I'm going to take sections of two previous issues to introduce you to five great downloads on the Web (not on our site) and five of the best of the online applications And finally I'll put in a plug for five of my favorite Mind Media Products. So I'm still carrying the torch Mindware. My dream is to make our West into a portal dedicated to the use of computers as mind appliances -- for individual success and personal development and the enhancement of the diverse aspects of human intelligence. How is that for perseverance? +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+--+ THREE FREE SOFTWARE DOWNLOADS YOU THAT MAY CHANGE YOUR LIFE Here are three free software give-always from mind media They all can be found on our "Specials Page" http://www.mindmedia.com/specials.html. 1) The first is the ever-popular Mindviewer -- a very close follow up to the original Mind Prober which was published in the mid-1980's: MINDVIEWER GIVES YOU X-RAY VISION INTO ANYONE'S HIDDEN PERSONALITY AND PRIVATE FANTASIES "Gain the advantage in personal and business relationships Reveals the secrets of winning people's trust Developed by an eminent team of psychologists "I was impressed by the reports it produced. In fact, I thought it pegged me pretty darn close to how I perceive myself. After showing the reports to a couple of close (and I mean close) friends, they agreed with Mindviewer's analysis completely. Of course I clipped out the section "Top Secret Sex Fantasies." -- Ron Albright, Computer Shopper Uncover anyone's hidden personality with the best-selling self- improvement program of all time. After using Mindviewer, you will feel like you have x- ray vision into parts of people that normally they can keep hidden. People hide behind masks. With Mindviewer, you gain accurate insight into the true nature of your friends, family, employees, associates. Find out what makes them tick, what gets them angry-- even how to shape their behavior. Developed by Drs. James and Kathy Johnson, a renowned husband/wife psychologist team, the program is both entertaining and enlightening. And its analysis hits home in a big way. Using the program is simple, yet the complex psychometric equations taken from personality psychology make the program uncannily accurate. Mindviewer asks you a series of multiple- choice questions about yourself or someone you wish to know better. Then you get a detailed profile of your subject, which can be viewed on the screen or printed as a detailed 3-5 page report custom-generated from the results. Run Mindviewer on your best friends and see if you get some new angle on them. Run Mindviewer on your boss for advice on important matters like how to get that raise or next promotion. Or try the program on your spouse or lover to reveal some hidden fantasies that just might warm up your relationship. You'll have fun finding out what Mindviewer can do for you! A free download at download at http://www.mindmedia.com/mv.com 2) Another of our featured downloads is called Brainworks and it helps you determine which hemisphere of the brain you use --left or right or perhaps a bit of both. WHAT BRAIN HEMISPHERE DO YOU PREFER? ARE YOU MORE VISUAL OR AUDITORY? DISCOVER YOUR PERSONALITY STYLE Do you know whether you prefer your left hemisphere or your right hemisphere? When you think, do you think visually or in sounds? The answer to these two key questions can unlock important secrets to your personality. Secrets, which can give help you to become more successful and effective in everything that you do. Mind Media Life Enhancement Network is pleased to give you, for a limited time, Brain Works, a simple to use software program which answer the two questions we asked at the beginning, and then give you much more. You'll get a complete report which you can read on screen or print, how your unique preferences for right or left hemisphere and for visual or auditory thinking styles make up your unique personality style. But more important, you'll get guidance and important tips on how you can be more effective in your learning, in relating to others and in achieving your goals with maximum success. When you download Brain Works, you get a free subscription to Mind Media Review Newsletter with information on the cutting edge software, CD-ROMs and new technologies in computers and the mind. Back issues of this important publication are available on our site. The questionnaire is visual, short and fun. And you never get the same set of questions twice. The report invaluable! Print it out and keep it for future reverence. For a limited time only, Mind Media Life Enhancement Network presents Brain Work, a revealing mind revealing software program absolutely FREE! Download it now at http://www.mindmedia.com/brain.html The last is called IQ Smarts and it gives you four IQ scores instead of one and helps you build your IQ by several points -- up to 15 says the publishers. TURBOCHARGE YOUR BRAIN WITH IQ SMARTS MEASURE YOUR IQ - THEN RAISE IT DRAMATICALLY RAISE YOUR IQ BY 15 POINTS OR MORE Discover your hidden strengths At last, here is a computer program that can not only measures your IQ, and whether you are left or right brained-- it actually raises your IQ. And it will raise it not just a tiny amount but to a dimension that you never dreamed possible. From the psychological and programming genius of Dr. James Johnson -- founder of the pioneer Human Edge Software -- comes IQ SMARTS, dramatic new advance intelligence. The software is based on major breakthroughs in the brain sciences. You?ll get exercises specially designed to develop your brain the same way aerobics, Nautilus, and other fitness programs have given us the ability to develop our body. Until now, these exercises have been available only from professionals with programs costing many thousands of dollars. Now these life- changing exercises are available with IQ SMARTS. IQ SMARTS begins by measuring all aspects of your intelligence through a short test. In the multi-page report you print out, you are told: Your overall IQ score Your "common sense" intelligence IQ score Your "book smarts" intelligence IQ Your "thinking creativity" intelligence score After explaining exactly what these scores mean, the program tells you exactly where you are strongest and targets weaknesses for improvement. IQ SMARTS explains what these strengths and weaknesses mean for your everyday life. Then, you are given a personalized training program that includes exercises, skills and procedures that are specific to your unique makeup and that are guaranteed to improve your ability to think and be creative. The user interface friendly and easy to use and you?ll be building brain cells in minutes after running the program. With this remarkable program, you can actually raise your intelligence by 15 points or more in as little as three weeks. This increase can mean the difference between success and failure in many careers and can lead a better and richer life. Download Spot http://www.mindmedia.com/iqsmart.html +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+-- FIVE SOFTWARE DOWNLOAD WEB SITES WORTH HAVING ON YOUR HARD DRIVE If you're at all like me, you love to download and try new software. However as you might have discovered, you only really find a few programs that you continue using and want to keep on your hard drive. Today, I'm going to show some of the programs that I kept on my computer. In addition to being winners, I have tried to choose programs from a variety of different sub-categories of the genre that I call "mindware." They are all worth a download. 1. http://www.goalpro.com/index.cfm?ID=50571 The people who publish GoalPro 5.0 calls it "The most effective success- management application available" and the funny thing is -- they may be right! I've been working on a special feature article covering my personal search trying to find the perfect program or combination of programs to accomplish the increasingly difficult task of managing my personal information. And GoalPro software in tandem with Microsoft Outlook is the combo that I use. But you don't have to use GoalPro on a PC. The people at GoalPro have kept up with the state-of-the-art and are offering GoalPro with most of its features intact as an on-line application. So Macintosh and Linux users as well as anyone who has access to the web can begin using GoalPro right now. What does the program do? Well it's hard to describe all of what it does briefly and so next month this publication will have a feature length review of GoalPro. In summary, it guides you through the process of listing and clarifying your most important life objectives. You a set of concrete goals to reach each of these objectives and also create short term tasks for reaching the objectives and goals. The program not only helps you create your "success tree" of objectives, goals and tasks, it sets up a regular daily and separate weekend routine where you visit these lists and determine how you are doing. This is called Success Coach and it's pretty darn useful. There's even a past-due management system where people who set too many tasks or procrastinate -- - people such as myself -- can evaluate and reschedule missed deadlines. Download a free thirty-day trial -- you might want to keep using it. 2. http://www.store-mindjet.com/affiliate.cfm?aff=PEZEVOBFQNFJ A mind map is a visual representation of the relationship between related ideas. The typical map starts with a central idea, word or concept. Then, around the central word you draw five to ten main ideas that relate to that word. You then take each of those child words and again draw the five to ten main ideas that relate to each of those words until you have an excellent visual model of the idea you are trying to understand or express. MindManager 3.7 is perhaps the best tool for creating mind-maps that has yet been devised, Whether you're trying to solve a problem, prioritize your daily activities, organize multiple projects or make a simple to-do list, MindManager will help. Here's some of the wide range of uses for the program: you can prepare speeches and presentations quickly and easily, plan and track complex tasks and projects, share project information with others, via MindManager's unique Internet conferencing, create web sites and/or site maps using the web site export features, track progress on projects visually, to quickly see how far along you are, organize multiple projects at once, take notes efficiently and easily reorganize them and more. Download a free full-featured demo -- or a smaller version which downloads quicker and try it for 21 days. There are a wealth of resources on-line to help you learn the skill of mapping your mind. So if you want the big picture, he's a place to start drawing it. 3.http://www.brain.com Josh Reynolds's Brain.com focuses on mental performance enhancement with its premier thinkFast software. Now thinkFast is an on-line application and brain.com has become an on-line brain-enhancement community. In 1995,the Global Idea Bank listed my idea of the "mini- mind gym" http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-488.HTML. The principle is that by using your brain, you can increase your mental fitness. Mind Media's IQ Builder and thinkFast software featured on brain.com work along these principles. They both give you a variety of mental tests which focus on a spectrum of mental abilities. By increasing the difficulty over trials, you "build mental muscle." Now thinkFast has become an on-line application and added features which take the idea of mental fitness workouts further. thinkFast is the perfect mind-mini gym and allows you to measure and save your improvements on-line. It "works you out" on a wide variety of mental skills. The program even includes your own Personal Tutor who coaches you to greater mental heights. 4. http://www.acal.com Stressmaster by Acel Self-Growth Software is about more than just stress. Modules contained within this ambitious Windows program include: Define Goals, Design Life, Overcome Additions, Change My State of Mind, Calm Anger, Cope with Daily Stress and several more. Some of the modules take you through interactive exercises that help you deal with various problem areas. Each of the modules written output is recorded in a master Self Discovery Journal. This is one of the best of the growing number of programs aimed toward self-therapy, StressMaster is available for a 30-day free trial. 5. http://brainstorming.org/ablemind/index.html ThinkWorld's Ablemind Streaming Idea Generator is the latest in the genre of brainstorming software and works in conjunction with the company's Brainstorming 101 seminar. You can download a demo version of the program, which contains a subset of the program's 87 million idea cards. The idea cards, which the program generates upon demand, consist of three words - a verb adjective and a noun. For example here are a few of the cards I drew: bevel postmodern shirts, lighten leather cans, vibrate instant televisions, These phrases might seem a bit meaningless but they are there to make you think. The company gives a few examples. Pump basketball shoes, they say, would have made people laugh twenty years ago. Now, after tens of millions of basketball shoes sold, people would think the idea pure genius. A few more examples among the millions possible from Able's software: project Celluloid images, navigate electronic documents. Well the arguments pretty convincing that this software can make me money. I'm going to file my patent for a vibrating instant television tomorrow. . +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+-- FIVE MINDWARE ONLINE APPLICATIONS YOU CAN VISIT TODAY by Bruce Eisner The Internet is always issuing new and trendy buzzwords and so you have probably started hearing that the next wave on the Web is online applications. In fact, online applications have arrived and will revolutionize the way that you will use the interactive self- improvement and personal-development tools which is the essence of the meaning of this new genre of Mindware tools. Since the beginning of personal computing, there have always been a number of competing operating systems which you can chose from to run your PC. In the past twenty years CPM, OS/2, the BeOS, the Macintosh, many flavors of UNIX along with several flavors of Windows. It has been a situation akin to the Biblical tower of Babel and so computer users for the most part chose Windows along those "who think different" picking the Mac. And the third most popular desktop operating system, Linux. Many people have chose Windows as an operating system because there are hundreds of times as many applications made for it than for the Mac or Linux or the others. Most computer users have dreamed of a day when it didn't matter what operating system you ran, you could use whatever application you wanted on any computer. Online applications are rapidly making this dream a reality. Online applications are built to work within a computer browser so that the application runs on the web server and any web-enabled computer can use them. In addition to their universality of use, these applications can also be upgraded by system administrator of the web server, virtually eliminating the need to constantly buy and install upgrades to every one of your software applications. Confined at first to a small group of mainstream software applications such as accounting software, utilities, online greeting card generators and the like, online applications are now becoming available for the kind of software that I like to write about. So here are five web online applications worth a visit. I've written about some of them before and their here again because they help broaden the range of possible scope of what you can look at today. Five Self-Improvement Online Applications worth a Visit 1.http://www.living-software.com The first personal development online application I'm going to review is by an Israeli team headed by C.E.O Doron Zzur. The link above is to a beta of the most sophisticated self-therapy tool created for the computer and it runs on any machine you care to try it on! After registering, the program prompts you with the question, "How Do You Feel Today." You answer by writing down what psychologists are fond of calling "your issues" and then you are introduced to four helpers in cartoon form. You can choose any of them and they will converse with you and help you clarify your problem and think about it in different terms. Each of the helpers is a different kind of personality and can give advices, which might even contradict the other very different personality. By then noting changes as they occur, you involve yourself in an ongoing process. This process can lead to improvements in attitude and mood as the brainstorming helps you become familiar with your "issue." And with familiarity comes relief by looking at something you here-to-fore avoided. This is a beta and has some rough edges but the good part is that it is free. Also information collected will help to make this site even better. Eventually Mr. Dzur hopes to turn this into a paid service. He was inspired to go into this line of work by a very significant personal crisis in his life, which occurred after his wife passed away with cancer several years ago. He founded this company to make available to the public ways of quickly responding to stressful life crises. His company has board of consulting psychologists and the site is worth a visit or several. 2. http://app.brain.com/member/join.cfm Josh Reynolds's Brain.com focuses on mental performance enhancement with its premier thinkFast software. Now thinkFast is an online application and brain.com has become an online brain-enhancement community. In 1995,the Global Idea Bank listed my idea of the "mini- mind gym" http://www.globalideasbank.org/BOV/BV-488.html was listed for voting.The basic principle is that by using your brain, you can increase your mental fitness by exersing it, just as you do physical muscles. Mind Media's IQ Builder and thinkFast software featured on brain.com work along these principles. They both give you a variety of mental tests, which focus on a spectrum of mental abilities. By increasing the difficulty over trials, you "build mental muscle." Now thinkFast has become an online application and added features, which take the idea of mental fitness workouts further. ThinkFast is the perfect mind-mini gym and allows you to measure and save your improvements online. It "works you out" on a wide variety of mental skills. The program even includes your own Personal Tutor who coaches you to greater mental heights. 3.http://www.goalpro.com/index.cfm?ID=50571 I've written a lot in June and July about GoalPro - which I consider one of the most helpful software programs I've used to help me organize for success. I'm featuring it here again because you've got to look around the site to find that in addition to the software version, there's an online version of GoalPro you can purchase as a subscription which allows anyone including Mac and Linux users to use this significant program. Here's what I wrote in June: The people who publish GoalPro 5.0 calls it "The most effective success management application available" and the funny thing is - - they may be right! GoalPro software in tandem with Microsoft Outlook is the combo that I use. But you don't have to use GoalPro on a PC. The people at GoalPro have kept up with the state-of-the- art and are offering GoalPro with most of its features intact as an online application. So Macintosh and Linux users as well as anyone who has access to the web can begin using GoalPro right now. What does the program do? Well it's hard to describe all of what it does briefly and so next month this publication will have a feature length review of GoalPro. In short, it guides you through the process of listing and clarifying your most important life objectives. You list a set of concrete goals to reach each of these objectives and also create short term tasks for reaching the objectives and goals. The program not only helps you create your "success tree" of objectives, goals and tasks, it sets up a regular daily and separate weekend routine where you visit these lists and determine how you are doing. This is called Success Coach and it's pretty darn useful. There's even a past-due management system where people who set too many tasks or procrastinate can evaluate and reschedule missed deadlines. Download a free thirty-day trial - - you might want to keep using it -- I did. 4. http://www.timecontrol.cc Panella Strategies: Success-Centered Time Management Power and Power Marketing Principles is not an exactly an online application but I put it here because it relies on the multimedia capabilities of the web to deliver an extensive library of time management principles developed by Vince Panella. During the past 18 years, his profit and time-building programs have influenced thousands of companies and tens of thousands of people in 25 countries around the world. The application- like section is called the Time Control Room and it has series of modules which take several days to learn (Panella finds that most people who take other time management courses don't learn anything because they are presented two quickly so they are forgotten just as quickly. Real Audio lectures by Vince Panella are supplemented by written materials available for download and the program together works very well. The cost is $20 per month but readers of this column can email mailto:psi@accelernet.net and get yearlong subscription for only $49.95 if you mention that Robert Galpren, Editor-In-Cheif from the Mind Media review sent you. 5.http://www.ansir.com -- Ashir.com is more than a web site, it is one premier example of Mindware online app. Ashir.com starts with a personality test which uses a unique system called the Ansir Style of Relating. You take the test after registering and are rated on 14 different personality attributes. Here is what they say about their test. "Discover your Self- truth and potential! It's free, challenging, and enlightening! But be warned, this serious test has 2,744 possible combinations and is ranked-by participants and Members alike-among the toughest and most accurate on the Web. Self-honesty is key. Read Profile Briefs first, then learn much, much more with Profiles In Depth absolutely free! Once you take the test, you are presented with a unique perspective on yourself and also become part of the Asir community. It is fun, fascinating and most of all - worth a visit. +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+-+--+--+--+--+--+-- FIVE FAVORITE MIND MEDIA PRODUCTS by the Mind Media Staff Here are the most popular Mind Media products of all time favorite from actual sales figures. 1) Most often on the order list -- our Top Twenty Software Programs from the Famous Mindware Catalog http://www.mindmedia.com/catalog/pub/bundles.html 2) For those of you who want the highest quality Mindware CD-ROM based mental tests -- Be Sure to Get the Superstar Suite! Five multimedia tests originally published] by Virtual Knowledge, Inc available at http://www.mindmedia.com/customer3.html 3) Always Popular -- Mind Prober 3.0 at http://wwww.mindmedia.com/probind.html came in third 4) The State-of-the-Art CD-ROM by Psychologist Sam Keen --Your Mythic Journey http://www.mindmedia.com/mythicj.html 5) Five Multimedia CD-ROMs for Personal and Professional Success -- Full Interactive Video Courses on a Disk! Titles: Manage Time, Organize For Success, Manage Stress, Attitude for Success and Communicate! http://www.mindmedia.com/catalog/pub/cdrom.html +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ Digital River -- the world's largest electronic download company has taken over administration of our electronic download catalog. This means that you get their 30 money back guarantee and their technical support staff is on call 24/7 to insure that if you pay for your download you get your download. Just go to http://www.digitalriver.com/dr/v2/ec_Main.Entry?SP=10007&SID=30169 &CID=0 We hope you enjoy the work our staff has done to enrich the product descriptions of the programs you can download there include Mind Prober 3.0 and our Top Ten Windows Best-Sellers -. . .-- ... --- ..-. - .... . .-- .. .-. . -.. Mind Media, Inc. 849 Almar Ave. Suite C-125 Santa Cruz, CA 95060 You can order securely on our web site or Call toll free during weekdays at 1-800-818-9445 Or Internationally:1+831+4260762 Or FAX 1+831+426-8519 +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ Thank you for reading and stay tuned for more! For comments or contributions, send e-mail to Mead Rose mailto:web@mindmedia.com Copyright 2002, Mind Media, Inc. -. . .-- ... --- ..-. - .... . .-- .. .-. . -.. --- You are currently subscribed to mindmedia as: hackers@freebsd.org To unsubscribe send a blank email to leave-mindmedia-476923I@lyris.bestnet.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 5: 4: 6 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lyris.bestnet.net (lyris.bestnet.net [216.15.129.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 4F40537B400 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 05:04:04 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-lyris-type: unsubscribed From: "Lyris ListManager" Reply-To: "Lyris ListManager" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your unsubscribe request Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:05:52 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As you requested, you have been unsubscribed from 'mindmedia'. --- Return-Path: Received: from rfnj.org ([216.239.237.194]) by lyris.bestnet.net with SMTP (Lyris ListManager LINUX version 4.1); Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:05:52 -0600 Received: from megalomaniac.biosys.net (megalomaniac.rfnj.org [216.239.237.200]) by rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964241366F for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:03:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223080336.00ab0b98@rfnj.org> X-Sender: asym@rfnj.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:03:39 -0500 To: mindmedia-request From: Allen Landsidel Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed # Mail sent to leave-mindmedia-476923i was converted to these commands: unsubscribe mindmedia hackers@freebsd.org confirm end # This is the text of the message that triggered the action: Return-Path: Received: from rfnj.org ([216.239.237.194]) by lyris.bestnet.net with SMTP (Lyris ListManager LINUX version 4.1); Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:05:52 -0600 Received: from megalomaniac.biosys.net (megalomaniac.rfnj.org [216.239.237.200]) by rfnj.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 964241366F for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:03:56 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20020223080336.00ab0b98@rfnj.org> X-Sender: asym@rfnj.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 08:03:39 -0500 To: leave-mindmedia-476923I@lyris.bestnet.net From: Allen Landsidel Subject: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 9:26:39 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from marlborough.cnchost.com (marlborough.concentric.net [207.155.248.14]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2145E37B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:26:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from bitblocks.com (adsl-209-204-185-216.sonic.net [209.204.185.216]) by marlborough.cnchost.com id MAA07523; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:26:34 -0500 (EST) [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14] Message-ID: <200202231726.MAA07523@marlborough.cnchost.com> To: Terry Lambert Cc: Julian Elischer , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-reply-to: Your message of "Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:56:27 PST." <3C756D0B.57E25B0@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 09:26:33 -0800 From: Bakul Shah Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > Without TCP, you have to implement your own version of > retry and ack (equivalent to negotiating a window size > of 1), and so you have to redo what's already there. Would be nice to have a reliable channel but in our experience not having this was not a big deal. The gdb serial protocol is fairly resilient. > The other issue with TCP is that you can set up specific > flows in the company firewall, and also permit SSLeay > based tunnel encapsulation from outside via an intermediate > machine. This isn't really required for off-site debugging, > but it gives another option. You are better off ssh-ing into a machine on the same net and running gdb there. For me the biggest reason for not using any IP was to minimize any perturbation due to the debugger. The fact that we have to steal mbufs is bad enough. -- bakul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 10:40:20 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com [204.127.198.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADB237B42F; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:40:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from InterJet.elischer.org ([12.232.206.8]) by rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with ESMTP id <20020223184014.USSB2951.rwcrmhc53.attbi.com@InterJet.elischer.org>; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 18:40:14 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.elischer.org [127.0.0.1]) by InterJet.elischer.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA79312; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:34:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) From: Julian Elischer To: Bakul Shah Cc: Terry Lambert , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? In-Reply-To: <200202231726.MAA07523@marlborough.cnchost.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, 23 Feb 2002, Bakul Shah wrote: > > Without TCP, you have to implement your own version of > > retry and ack (equivalent to negotiating a window size > > of 1), and so you have to redo what's already there. > > Would be nice to have a reliable channel but in our > experience not having this was not a big deal. The gdb > serial protocol is fairly resilient. > > > The other issue with TCP is that you can set up specific > > flows in the company firewall, and also permit SSLeay > > based tunnel encapsulation from outside via an intermediate > > machine. This isn't really required for off-site debugging, > > but it gives another option. > > You are better off ssh-ing into a machine on the same net and > running gdb there. > > For me the biggest reason for not using any IP was to > minimize any perturbation due to the debugger. The fact that > we have to steal mbufs is bad enough. I agree, especially when we will have locking etc for the mbuf queues. It's a pitty we can't intercept the mbuf allocate routines.. then we could keep a couple for ourself :-) > > -- bakul > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 11: 5:58 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com (mailout06.sul.t-online.com [194.25.134.19]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B99637B400 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 11:05:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16ehBZ-0006Fd-08; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:46:17 +0100 Received: from spirit.corecode.ath.cx (320050403952-0001@[80.128.125.18]) by fmrl09.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 16ehBV-0AtuDIC; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:46:13 +0100 Received: from elevation.zuhause.stoert.net (elevation.zuhause.stoert.net [192.168.66.46]) by spirit.corecode.ath.cx (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1NIkC509546 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:46:12 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from corecode@corecode.ath.cx) Received: (from corecode@localhost) by elevation.zuhause.stoert.net (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NIkBU58717; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:46:11 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from corecode) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:46:05 +0100 From: "Simon 'corecode' Schubert" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: ipv6-over-ipv4 (gif) doesn't work right since 4.5 Message-Id: <20020223194605.18bba9f1.corecode@corecode.ath.cx> X-Mailer: Sylpheed version 0.7.2claws (GTK+ 1.2.10; i386--freebsd4.5) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=.WljVGhFVT0/XEZ" X-Sender: 320050403952-0001@t-dialin.net Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG --=.WljVGhFVT0/XEZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit hi hackers! i just updated to 4.5-S and my gif0 tunnel stopped working. the reason is the following: o before (= 4.4-S) i used route add -inet6 default -interface gif0 o now (= 4.5-S) i need to do route add -inet6 default when using the old setting, the system won't notice incoming packets, i.e. there will be a SYN-ACK but no reply; the ACK is being ignored; system continues to send SYNs. i believe this behavior is not desired: man route explicitely allows using the iface name if it is a point to point interface. is this a bug or some special feature? if bug i'm gonna file a pr when i got time to do so. cheerz corecode -- /"\ http://corecode.ath.cx/ \ / \ ASCII Ribbon Campaign / \ Against HTML Mail and News --=.WljVGhFVT0/XEZ Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQE8d+Nyr5S+dk6z85oRAh2kAJ9hNaQ818VBlPinaaTxiL3iRIYU+gCbBVWm VLpee+j3xOjEPtrVxbDU9W0= =DQ6G -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=.WljVGhFVT0/XEZ-- To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 12:12:53 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net (swan.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.123]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0BFAC37B402; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0006.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.6] helo=mindspring.com) by swan.prod.itd.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16eiXC-0007O4-00; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:43 -0800 Message-ID: <3C77F7AE.76EAAE24@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 12:12:30 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Julian Elischer Cc: Bakul Shah , Michael Smith , "George V. Neville-Neil" , freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Debugging over the Ethernet? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Julian Elischer wrote: > > > The other issue with TCP is that you can set up specific > > > flows in the company firewall, and also permit SSLeay > > > based tunnel encapsulation from outside via an intermediate > > > machine. This isn't really required for off-site debugging, > > > but it gives another option. > > > > You are better off ssh-ing into a machine on the same net and > > running gdb there. This is really hard to do, when you are trying to debug a problem in the field in a situation that you can't repeat locally in your own lab, for whatever reason. The value of network debugging to me is not that I can avoid buying a serial cable (big deal), it's that I can do the debugging remotely. If I'm going to ssh into a local machine and debug from there, then I can use a serial cable. The other issue is that, doing remote debugging from a local machine, means I have to expose my source code on that machine. If I tunnel in, insteaD, well, then I'm not exposing the source code. > > For me the biggest reason for not using any IP was to > > minimize any perturbation due to the debugger. The fact that > > we have to steal mbufs is bad enough. > > I agree, especially when we will have locking etc for the mbuf queues. > It's a pitty we can't intercept the mbuf allocate routines.. > then we could keep a couple for ourself :-) IP is so you can make it through a cisco, etc. to another routable segment. For the allocation, you *can* intercept it. What you do is allocate a chunk of mbufs when you allocate other fixed memory in machdep.c. It's pretty trivial. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 14: 8:21 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mars.wanadoo.fr (ca-ol-sqy-17-206.abo.wanadoo.fr [80.8.54.206]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F9537B404 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:08:16 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dak@localhost) by mars.wanadoo.fr (8.11.6/8.11.6) id g1NM65C01919 for freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:06:05 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from dak) Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:06:05 +0100 From: dak To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Kernel Module Message-ID: <20020223220605.GA1863@mars> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.27i Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Hi, I want to make a module that re-writes a kernel function. Anybody can point me to a doc/skeleton code please ? I've already taken a look at examples provided with FreeBSD but I've only seen code to make new syscalls (or devices). Thanks in advance (and sorry for the bad english :>) -dak To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 14:37: 9 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net (hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.22]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EDE237B402 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool0164.cvx40-bradley.dialup.earthlink.net ([216.244.42.164] helo=mindspring.com) by hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16ekmh-0002Kx-00; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:36:51 -0800 Message-ID: <3C781978.4E43221A@mindspring.com> Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 14:36:40 -0800 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dak Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Kernel Module References: <20020223220605.GA1863@mars> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG dak wrote: > I want to make a module that re-writes a kernel function. > Anybody can point me to a doc/skeleton code please ? > I've already taken a look at examples provided with FreeBSD > but I've only seen code to make new syscalls (or devices). > > Thanks in advance (and sorry for the bad english :>) This is called thunking. If you need to do this, you should reconsider your application or define an interface boundary for what you want to replace. The easiest way is to define a global function pointer you can overwrite (or a local one, if the overwrite is in the same file), e.g.: static int default_foo(int i, char c) { return( i * c); } int (*foo)(int i, char c) = default_foo; static int new_foo(int i, char c) { return( i + c); } int replace_foo() { foo = new_foo; } Alternately, you can replace the function at the address with a "thunk". A thunk is a "call new_func; ret;". You take the address of the function and write your replacement there (you will need to come up with the instruction value yourself): replace_default_foo() { char *instr = "\x71\x77\x78\x78xxxxxxxx"; /* abs call*/ void *old; old = (char *)default_foo; memcpy( (void *)instr+4 (void *)new_foo, sizeof(void *)); memcpy( old, (void&)instr, 4 + sizeof(void *)); } Basically, you eat an additional call/ret overhead. It's better to replace a function pointer. Alternately, you could do a fixup. With a fixup, you have a fake function, and when it's called, it patches the caller to point to the new function. Since relative calls are shorter than absolute, you can't fixup everything (not enough space for the absolute call instruction operand), but you can thunk to everything by stomping the caller. For the fixup, you stomp the address of the function with a replacement fixup function, instead of the real replacement function. When it gets called, it walks back the stack to find the caller, stops the caller code, then finishes calling through the replacement function. Thus the expense of the extra work occurs the first time you call it, but subseqnet calls use the fixed-up code instead, and call the replacement function directly. For relative calls, you fixup to a thunk, so that you don't have fixup failure overhead each time, but you still have cal overhead. If what your doing needs this, then you probably should be fixing the interface so that you don't need to do this, as other people are likely to want to do what you are doing, too. -- Terry To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 16: 8:43 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br (200-206-240-101.dsl.telesp.net.br [200.206.240.101]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5055F37B405; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:08:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from portugalmail.com (1Cust46.tnt59.dfw5.da.uu.net [67.203.43.46]) by coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br (8.11.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id g1O19DT15262; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 22:09:16 -0300 Message-Id: <200202240109.g1O19DT15262@coc-ias.coc-snt.com.br> To: From: d7354@portugalmail.com Subject: Burn fat with no effort Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:00:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Tone your Abs, Thighs, Arms, and more with NO EFFORT ! 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Digital Cellular Phone. $99.95 Value! +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ To opt-Out: http://www2.software4you2002.com/options To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 16: 9:35 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from lyris.bestnet.net (lyris.bestnet.net [216.15.129.82]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id DBBDC37B404 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 16:09:33 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: X-lyris-type: unsubscribed From: "Lyris ListManager" Reply-To: "Lyris ListManager" To: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: your unsubscribe request Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:11:38 -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG As you requested, you have been unsubscribed from 'mindmedia'. --- Return-Path: < hackers@freebsd.org> Received: from x ([141.198.136.7]) by lyris.bestnet.net with SMTP (Lyris ListManager LINUX version 4.1); Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:11:34 -0600 subject: to: mindmedia-request # Mail sent to leave-mindmedia-476923i was converted to these commands: unsubscribe end # This is the text of the message that triggered the action: Return-Path: < hackers@freebsd.org> Received: from x ([141.198.136.7]) by lyris.bestnet.net with SMTP (Lyris ListManager LINUX version 4.1); Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:11:34 -0600 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 19:52:56 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from topaz.mdcc.cx (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F2B37B405 for ; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 19:52:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from k7.mavetju.org (topaz.mdcc.cx [212.204.230.141]) by topaz.mdcc.cx (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B28A2B6C7; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 04:52:50 +0100 (CET) Received: by k7.mavetju.org (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 10DCF725; Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:52:43 +1100 (EST) Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 14:52:43 +1100 From: Edwin Groothuis To: Simon 'corecode' Schubert Cc: hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: ipv6-over-ipv4 (gif) doesn't work right since 4.5 Message-ID: <20020224145243.E491@k7.mavetju.org> References: <20020223194605.18bba9f1.corecode@corecode.ath.cx> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5.1i In-Reply-To: <20020223194605.18bba9f1.corecode@corecode.ath.cx>; from corecode@corecode.ath.cx on Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:46:05PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG On Sat, Feb 23, 2002 at 07:46:05PM +0100, Simon 'corecode' Schubert wrote: > hi hackers! > > i just updated to 4.5-S and my gif0 tunnel stopped working. the reason > is the following: > o before (= 4.4-S) i used > route add -inet6 default -interface gif0 > o now (= 4.5-S) i need to do > route add -inet6 default > > when using the old setting, the system won't notice incoming packets, > i.e. there will be a SYN-ACK but no reply; the ACK is being ignored; > system continues to send SYNs. > > i believe this behavior is not desired: man route explicitely allows > using the iface name if it is a point to point interface. > > is this a bug or some special feature? > if bug i'm gonna file a pr when i got time to do so. It's a bug :-/ Please see http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin%2F35017 for this. and the thread in http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=279914+284924+/usr/local/www/db/text/2002/freebsd-hackers/20020217.freebsd-hackers and http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=167189+172081+/usr/local/www/db/text/2002/freebsd-net/20020217.freebsd-net Jinmei Tatuya, who is in the Kame project, has asked for more information regarding it. I hope he will come back soon to us about it. Edwin -- Edwin Groothuis | Personal website: http://www.MavEtJu.org edwin@mavetju.org | Interested in MUDs? Visit Fatal Dimensions: ------------------+ http://www.FatalDimensions.org/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-hackers Sat Feb 23 23: 0:30 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mass.dis.org (dhcp45-21.dis.org [216.240.45.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E83337B400; Sat, 23 Feb 2002 23:00:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from mass.dis.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mass.dis.org (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g1MLoEu02180; Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:50:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from msmith@mass.dis.org) Message-Id: <200202222150.g1MLoEu02180@mass.dis.org> X-Mailer: exmh version 2.5 07/13/2001 with nmh-1.0.4 To: "Frost, Stephen C" Cc: "'freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org'" , "'freebsd-questions@freebsd.org'" Subject: Re: PCI Probing Utility? In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:31 PST." Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:50:13 -0800 From: Michael Smith Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > > Is there some quick, down & dirty way of assessing the bus-speeds of PCI > slots/busses on a given box? I have a whole rack of systems with FreeBSD > 4.5 on 'em, and need to know the PCI bus configuration for each. Unfortunately, no. The Yahoo! folks have worked on some old SMBios code I wrote that might be able to extract the information you require, but there's nothing trivially visible in PCI config space that will tell you this. You might try mailing ps@freebsd.org, but I understand he's out of the country for a while. Sorry. = Mike -- To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. - Theodore Roosevelt To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message