From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Apr 23 08:14:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50BBE2AC230 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:14:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-il1-x135.google.com (mail-il1-x135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49797R10FVz4fBb for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:14:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-il1-x135.google.com with SMTP id b18so4724480ilf.2 for ; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:14:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9HFEa+9TV+JQj6oOyO6drszi5pBNExrCZaTc4eHX4wo=; b=KpUrp0E+9UPfeKZ4fRaLvdRUMxipp5lQVvH/RNrY7k4n9bcypAajxAzjSlPV0L56UH 5juh1m/sultMqQQvsqSPGoynSiGn36EW7zG9M6wr9MtZieH8imvYmf5LaGDVSSwCF+KM k50aZA6afR0bx4ZJNKazWmX02LqAVjlnD/ikWSTSFADZTyMMlXPzIL7el97kR7xwLmcy eOxVkxPymC9w+PUEa6XMQgX7x2AMhU1EpE3+ZNfRc7gNXDK1OOqFRvWtF3v/qePciOY1 DIX3IKWMh9foyYS64YxSibVL3+7YlJP/1ZWN6mJnNS0wV5nLRvO9ygMIi1ajxECl/Y0R zL3A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9HFEa+9TV+JQj6oOyO6drszi5pBNExrCZaTc4eHX4wo=; b=HY//1NETqg9YUo7l7n8YwpFQnTTpwu7EXGeWhTXIocy2kKVqdtPrURzPNVA9gGuVX3 pwQVwc3+8KMZcMMbBA3Ot4oq2VDkN9eYjHOt8ful+X4LrIWUVHnVW8GUA5N84tTOYi0r 6BeO36RYA89QCiJ+V4oMsntc9YPZEiN8RVWnUcuvwQUBQKFK1EvwYhrqrE8hoDbgtbdM 2b9kw1n7BKzjJG4uOGNVByzX29zwMTI80KndlG2X8HF/Wi+RrDYxCRNE2en0D+Jb9/VS lOjJAeHMrAXcs9r/LpeZJKTYfiOJJtCbegPT+EWwuZzVQeBC8qrG8oAk29GJNaVAWbgN SNYg== X-Gm-Message-State: AGi0PuZ8EULXN+tHnaFCRxRaiR+eA1BCVhQ6EBM+0JUcFcKkjJdvQGus zyg1ry5CyOGZlgf83h/mfaPEQv4tHDvOb3CVpBytdUPqO8g= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APiQypJ4PHue2md7DlrJ4m7BcSo9wmW4o8jrA+lW7mCQw/gNxUWHdBfle4IcLXIX6UAcySmoJnDh2e0MW8qoAQoN8Ng= X-Received: by 2002:a92:5e16:: with SMTP id s22mr2387467ilb.81.1587629649347; Thu, 23 Apr 2020 01:14:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <5058973.kMyvyFPq5o@amos> <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200423085443.18f00e9649e8c71867505550@sohara.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 04:13:57 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Wayland on FreeBSD To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: Ihor Antonov , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49797R10FVz4fBb X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=KpUrp0E+; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::135 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.00 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[5.3.1.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (-8.42), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-0.33), asn: 15169(-0.43), country: US(-0.05)]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 08:14:14 -0000 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:54 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Thu, 23 Apr 2020 03:44:17 -0400 > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > TL;dr; due to a royal F'up in basic storage system architecture Linux is > > unusable outside of data centers for any sort of cloud computing whereas > > FreeBSD doesn't even blink an eye in such environments. So you tell me > > which one is more modern and useful? > > Linux supports NFS (since forever) and FreeBSD supports iSCSI > (since 10.0) - the problem you describe is very real but it isn't a > Linux/FreeBSD issue but what seems to be a very inappropriate use of iSCSI. > Linux had iSCSI before FreeBSD ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISCSI#Operating_systems) did and from the get go there was huge pressure to use it instead of NFS because like everything else in Linux iSCSI was newer, shinier and faster then NFS (not stopping to see that any performance gain would be eaten up by any network having smaller bandwidth than local I/O devices, even slow ones like traditional drives). FreeBSD never stopped recommending NFS as the preferred network storage method. > > For the record iSCSI originated with Cisco and IBM not Linux. > Never said that Linux invented it I only said it was a Linux feature (and, by all accounts I have seen, the preferred Linux network storage method) -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org