From owner-freebsd-x11@freebsd.org Sun Jan 1 06:53:30 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-x11@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0374CC9C17B for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2017 06:53:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x234.google.com (mail-lf0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8433914D0 for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2017 06:53:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x234.google.com with SMTP id y21so256519484lfa.1 for ; Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:53:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=csyazvNCvAR/uSrM0SIT7+kZ1Ch2CG0HEBT1WqzWs0c=; b=Vmomjwf6jM+exvQFpB0BT6sSQt6TVWhgIqYgxagikONL+977avtmkF+Dd83V2p5y6g MXd7PvQ0Z8KOmEGwQk8s5SaxpFX7DNIIRLrm6Cf1Frmt3KMkJSH5tQ2I/7ICHwSG9qz1 XJ1Tny2/AwD3lRQ3ixMOzz8JgnY71R3NvEafEZCd5bjwg41ktvLwxrmSIlb0ehFABD9E r2X47BEs4wDY8pPrKDnrE8hGCA/2ZsCkvyWgXBG/BSAJsgp/1EqvqF69aXoHta7ioNIk osPvUScfCfzRgnhNq4q9hNbJq5Lu3aSgwulzC1EyYln+1MU4rR2L1oFycjmTBwSAUNuf cibw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=csyazvNCvAR/uSrM0SIT7+kZ1Ch2CG0HEBT1WqzWs0c=; b=DeTUF2wV0wkCXzA/ikTm3NMF78X5Fmzgl6esMvnUvUGa61eiJW1dDRGoGKGBjLk5a+ OKyanAyOVjhUZR77yB9gXVv83j/5JosQd9JBSqHM1DTF1HjMSl7RNd+oN+++5FmDUwQC zZ0b6bu5HEZyrfuYDZpYypo7au87nGv6bhkIm5zFeO5ZNC6n0UySnSt16QIMgKeWXd6q CLzJcPzRy9waGWxH6FsWEV5CXACCTBsJAshfTezXgXB/3zq9TdEmT6ppnXB06LCa1DYM HQYBfdvvr92Gzle0O6HUQQCg1SSdcAGr8NvRgL3661tSMAtNhKiXRYAw/RhxOFVDhLfm TFQA== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJnWYQfNrDl+B0lvlnD5Iev6DYPQgs4d8TZTm7RkOTHZFd+jAshgHJVueUK5spoHH7vShxk5hubJ31Krg== X-Received: by 10.25.67.9 with SMTP id q9mr14797508lfa.6.1483253607226; Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:53:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.79.88 with HTTP; Sat, 31 Dec 2016 22:53:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <159581f5c78.11113616363629.8724982795793407213@nextbsd.org> References: <20161230163653.54909631@rsbsd.rsb> <15952279f17.e0be0d8c34357.732964216134709731@nextbsd.org> <20161231120453.13adf858@thor.walstatt.dynvpn.de> <3E.8B.31287.AED68685@dnvrco-omsmta01> <159581f5c78.11113616363629.8724982795793407213@nextbsd.org> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2017 14:53:26 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: End of year Xorg status rant To: Matthew Macy Cc: Thomas Mueller , x11-list freebsd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-x11@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: X11 on FreeBSD -- maintaining and support List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2017 06:53:30 -0000 In the past nvidia had closed sourced drivers in my opinion because they used public papers on gpu rendering techniques, built it into hardware and sorta duck taped it all together, amd sorta did the same thing as well so they were both guilty but nvidia got the lead and stayed ahead. Those reasons are going to be irrelevant in the vulkan dx12 years. What do I mean by that? nvidia always had a major gpu binary release around the time of major software release because nvidia would take the code from the game devs try it on their machines and would basically go in and rewrite shaders, fix edge case bugs, etc to make sure the next big game always ran on nvidia hardware, amd didn't have these resources so they were always sorta catching up. The product releases, people are praising nvidia for their awesome performance and amd get's the shaft in the public's eye. This had a lot to do with how previous generations opengl/ directx had huge driver layers that did all kinds of things to help with memory management, states, etc. in vulkan, dx12 land that's no longer the case because there is no driver layer to speak of. So it's my opinion that both chip makers will be more open source friendly because now if a developer writes crap programs it will just kill the card. There's no place; the driver implementation; for chip makers to go and do their magic. That responsibility falls on the developers shoulders and I think this is a great thing. Let both companies make the best hardware and have some base standard api to talk to the hardware, everything else is game. The reason vulkan took so long to release was because of this battle, nvidia understood what vulkan would mean; the ______ amount of dollars they invested in the driver team, outreach to make sure you get help from nvidia on your game, all those resources would be gone, while that's not great for nvidia it's good for the consumer and developers. Make the hardware and let people use it, stop selling gimped hardware and gating things such that you can charge a premium for non premium cards. I just migrated to a new laptop with a gtx1070 but i will also be getting a laptop with a vega card when those are available. I don't care who wins, if either "team" wins we all lose. They should worry about creating great products and good documentation and let the people do what they want with the hardware that they bought. That's my post new years rant. On Sun, Jan 1, 2017 at 11:42 AM, Matthew Macy wrote: > > > > ---- On Sat, 31 Dec 2016 18:47:23 -0800 Thomas Mueller < > mueller6722@twc.com> wrote ---- > > > > excerpt from O. Hartmann: > > > > > I think we face a political problem, not so much a man-power-driven > one. nVidia provides > > > a BLOB, this BLOB works well even with the most recent hardware of > theirs, but it lacks > > > in support for OpenCL and their own CUDA acceleration framework. I > never understood why. > > > I asked nVidia - and they told me, that there is no request from the > community ... so > > > far. That is a claim and I can not hold something against it, since > it seems obvious > > > that I'm, with some other single people, are the only one compared to > millions of others > > > - de facto Null so to speak. > > > > > And AMD? Well, 2006 or 2008 the company claimed to support the > opensource community > > > better than before, but that left in history to be a insubstancial > claim. Their hardware > > > might be a great deal even for GPGPU purposes with OpenCL, but this > is Linux only as far > > > as I can tell. > > > > I too noticed that nVidia and AMD were not open-source-friendly with > their graphics; remember Linus Torvalds' comments and cusses regarding > nVidia. > > > > That's why I chose Intel on my last computer hardware purchases; I use > Intel on-CPU graphics. > > > > Yes, we can leave it to AMD to snatch defeat to defeat from the jaws of > victory. > > Nonetheless, companies management turns over and their policies change. > AMD is *currently* very much committed to bringing their open source Linux > driver up to par with what they have on Windows. They are also committed to > a fully open source high performance GPGPU compute stack. They should be > rewarded for what their *current* policies are if we want to encourage > that. If they again back off from that stance - then yes, leave them to > their own devices. > > -M > > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-x11@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-x11 > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-x11-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >