Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 02:22:14 -0700 From: "Lawrence Cotnam Jr." <larry@pkunk.net> To: "Alfred Perlstein" <bright@wintelcom.net>, <freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org>, <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org> Subject: RE: Proper use of support channels (Was: Re: No help...) Message-ID: <MKEOLDIJFGDJKDLHGFEGAEFDCBAA.larry@pkunk.net> In-Reply-To: <20000721004510.V13979@fw.wintelcom.net>
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| -----Original Message----- | From: Alfred Perlstein [mailto:bright@wintelcom.net] | Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 12:45 AM | To: Lawrence Cotnam Jr. | Subject: Proper use of support channels Re: No help... | | After reading an email like this I really can't sympathize all that | much, I've found your older posts: | | http://www.FreeBSD.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1989538+1993286+/usr/local/www/d b/text/2000/freebsd-questions/20000625.freebsd-questions | | Complains about SiS support without offering a test unit for anyone | to work on. There is no debug info. There is no specific info, | the best it gets is: | | "Next, I looked into the source code for ata-dma.c, added a return | just before it tries to probe for DMA capable devices and rebooted." | | No line number in the driver, no crash dump no SPECIFIC console | messages. Test unit? I have *ONE* UNIT! I'm not rich. I can't just give someone my one unit. HOWEVER, if someone has replied to me, asking if they could perhaps use the box, from remote, to do diagnostics on, I'd have said, "Sure! Be my guest, I'd be happy to offer my machine, from remote, to play with. I'll even help!" Debug info? It _FROZE_. There was no output. It just locked my box. All I did was change the hard drive. It had been running beautifully with a different hard drive. Same controller, same release of the software. Same drivers. I change one thing and it brought the entire OS to a halt. That's... kind of lame. It's not like the SiS 5591 is something that's popped up out of nowhere. It's not like a few other thousands of people don't have a box with one of these. Line number? You must be kidding! Anyone with half a grasp of C knowledge and the FreeBSD source code could _EASILY_ find the line I'm speaking of, and know exactly what I did. Certainly, someone with developer level knowledge would know, with hardly thinking, of the area I'm speaking of. There's only one function in that module that probes for IDE-DMA capabilities. Have you looked at it? I'd post the line number here, right now, but.. uh.. I don't have it handy... remember I installed Debian Linux in an effort to stabilize my internet server. But! I someone (besides you) thinks it would be truly helpful, by all means, let me know. I can put the kernel source for FreeBSD onto my server and point right to the line number I changed. Alfred, this nothing more than a flamatory reply. Constructive, helpful replies would be much more appreciate. That's all I wanted in the first place! I'm quite willing to walk the walk to get to the wanted end. This is not productive, though, Alfred. | And I bet you never bothered to email Soren, the maintainer of the | driver about the problem. Yes, his name is listed at the top of the | driver source, imagine that! | | http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=1453611+0+current/freebsd-quest ions OK. I'll concede to that, I didn't post the original message to the proper newsgroup, perhaps. But I'd think, those within the development team would be sifting through this group and perhaps bringing the questions there to the attention of those whom might be able to help. A network of communication, imagine that! But then.. I don't see a newsgroup for called 'freebsd-pci-ide' either. I didn't consider freebsd-hardware with the first question. But then, I'm seeing the same level of response with my 3COM problems. None at all. | The source file for if_ep.c clearly lists Matthew N. Dodd as the | maintainer, did you bother to contact him? Probably not. This has little to do with that particular module. FreeBSD's support for 3COM devices has always been shoddy at best. With comments like '(slow!)' on one particular 3COM NIC, and '(buggy!)' on another right in the LINT file, in previous versions. While it's fairly accepted (IMHO), that 3COM does make some pretty nice network equipment. The Linux community doesn't seem to have much trouble properly supporting this hardware. At the very least, someone could ADAPT what the Linux community has done in the way of 3COM driver code into FreeBSD. But no... I would do it myself, but I fear my skills in C aren't up to the task. I wish they were, for if they were, I'd do it! Without a doubt, without hesitation! I love FreeBSD! At least, I did. | The fact of the matter is that you posted highly technical questions | to a mailing list where they weren't supposed to go, and they | happened to get lost in a sea of noise. Trust me driver maintainers | don't read these lists every day. You should have tried to contact | maintainer and filed a PR in GNATS | (http://www.freebsd.org/support.html#gnats for all you out there | with less than 5 years of FreeBSD experiance) I thought I'd try the newsgroups first, to see if anyone could at least offer suggestions of some kind before escalating to GNATS, which I have in the past used for FreeBSD-small problems regarding network routing problems, and accessing the routing socket. I did receive most useful and helpful knowledge regarding these problems, and even source code patches, from the freebsd-small audience. I certainly commend them for great support and help. They're a great bunch of folks, as I imagine most of the FreeBSD folks are, when they listen. | I hope you enjoy Debian as long as you don't need any support, as | you don't seem capable of requesting it properly. For someone | using FreeBSD for 5 years you sure don't seem to have gotten it | yet, and I don't see myself feeling bad about that. Gotten what? Properly ask? I think I properly asked. I posted very informative messages, explaining in detail what occurred, what I have, what has changed, what I tried to cure the problems. If more information was needed to help diagnose what the deal was, why couldn't someone take a moment, as you have to flame me, to say, "Hey, could you boot it up with 'options x y z' and tell me what it says, I might be able to tell you what the deal is." Whatever. More flamatory comments that advance this dialog in no way whatsoever. I recommend a flaming newsgroup with this kind of attitude. I didn't ask for your flaming attitude, nor do I appreciate it, and I don't think anyone else would agree it's at all useful to this dialog. There is a problem. I want to solve it, for me, for anyone else whom uses the same hardware I do. I've made my opinions and the results of my experiences clear in a mature, non-flamtory fashion. I'm disappointed. I'm frustrated. I so much want it to work, but it wont and no one will lift a finger to help me. I've helped others. I've done my part time and time again. When it's my turn to need help, I get a cold shoulder. Or from people like you, a hot one. Thanks. As far as sympathy, I don't want any. I want some help. If no one can give me hand here, then I'll go somewhere else where I can get a working system. I really don't care at this point. I want it to work. And that's what's important. If its FreeBSD, Linux, or Windows, or Joe-Blow's Magic OS, if it works and does the tasks I required doing, I'm happy. For what its worth, I've received more replies to my expression of disappointment and frustration that's *FORCED* me to use an OS I'm not terribly familiar with, than I ever have when I asked questions. Isn't that.. odd? Even my friend, a professional computer programmer, told me he thought my questions were well written and explained the circumstances quite thoroughly. And if it makes anyone feel better, I've imported a lot of configuration related stuff into my Linux box in an effort to plug its leaky security model. And I must admit, that has been a rather amusing (though quite time consuming) task. Constructive replies would be appreciate Alfred, not flaming. Thank you for your input. Lawrence Cotnam Jr. (775) 337-2536 email: larry@pkunk.net To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-hardware" in the body of the message
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