Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 11:21:45 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org> To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Cc: mark@quickweb.com, nate@mt.sri.com, terry@lambert.org, hackers@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Sun Workshop compiler vs. GCC? Message-ID: <199702201821.LAA15669@phaeton.artisoft.com> In-Reply-To: <199702201640.JAA28151@rocky.mt.sri.com> from "Nate Williams" at Feb 20, 97 09:40:25 am
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> What Terry *originally* stated was that Win95 doesn't use 16-bit DOS
> drivers when you do an upgrade. He was wrong.
What Terry originally stated was:
] Loading Win95 on a system will rename the "config.sys" and "autoexec.bat"
] to "config.dos" and "autoexec.dos" so that they will not be run by default.
]
] You *must* have installed something that crapped in those two files
] and created them, as a side effect (maybe because it expected to be
] installed on Windows 3.1), OR you *must* have renamed the files back
] after the installation completed.
]
]
] Windows95 actually loads whatever you tell it to in config.sys or
] autoexec.bat... or, rather, "DOS 7.0" loads them.
What Terry said with regard to 16 bit drivers in particular came *after*
Nate said this was wrong:
] Nate says:
] >
] > You're wrong Terry. The win31 -> win95 upgrade copies your autoexec and
] > config files to .dos, and rems some of the old drivers (like msdex) out,
] > but overall it will use the 16bit dos drivers happily.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
]
] Not according to King and Schulman... it is well known that you must
] disable the PM disk drivers in order to use software that hooks the
] 16 bit disk interrupts. For instance, LANtastic for Windows 3.x, a
] product of my current employer.
POINT 1: The 16 bit disk interrupts can not be hooked
successfully without disabling the Windows95 PM
disk drivers. This contravenes the claim indicated
in Nate's last sentence above.
POINT 2: LANtastic for Windows 3.x is well known to fail on
Windows95 unless the PM disk drivers are disabled.
This is a repeatable, concrete test which disproves
the validity of Nate's claim.
]
] Also, the autoexec.dos/config.dos are not used when the system is
] started, but autoexec.bat and config.sys are. I know because it's
] where I load WinICE and the only IFS FSD (file system driver) for
] fixed disks ever written outside of Microsoft... by me and two other
] Artisoft engineers.
POINT 3: The autoexec.dos and config.dos files are not used
by the Windows95 boot process. Nate *incorrectly*
used the word "copied" in place of my claim of
"renamed", and then went on to build a case using
"copied" as a partially hidden assumption.
POINT 4: I load WinICE in my autoexec.bat; each time I installed
Windows95 (which was the upgrade, and therefore I had
to install WFWG 3.11 first, thus creating an autoexec.bat
and a config.sys to get my CDROM drive active for the
install), I had to *recreate* the autoexec.bat, since
it did not exist after the install over WFWG. It is
my (admittedly anecdotal, since Nate wasn't here to
ride herd on me, nor was an officer of the court 8-))
personal experience that the files were in fact *NOT*
copied as Nate claims, but *renamed*.
I therefore maintain my claim that the user must have done something
outside the scope of a normal, default "upgrade" installation of
Windows95 in order to get the situation he describes.
> Now, he changed the subject (to not be wrong) so that it became an issue
> of how 16-bit drivers are setup, and to tell us about the books he's
> read, the kernel hacking he's done, and everything else, but the fact of
> the matter was that the Win95 upgrade in cases uses the existing 16-bit
> DOS drivers w/out the upgrader desiring it.
I have never seen this. We have only *your* anecdotal evidence that
this occurs, while on the other side, we have *myself(, and *several
others*, anecdotal evidence that it does not.
In other words, we have nothing more than anecdotal evidence, insufficient
for you to obtain my "criminal conviction" of "wrongness". On the other
hand, when we get to the "civil trial", there is a preponderance of
evidence, anecdotal though it may be, that I am "not guilty".
If you can cite a repeatable example, then fine. If not, fine. You
are getting too anal about a trivial issue for my tastes, in any case.
At best, you will be able to prove that if you stand on one foot,
rub your belly, and press F8 while installing Windows95, it will keep
16 bit drivers in the config.sys and (less likely) 16 bit driver loaders
in the autoexec.bat. I will be happy to counter this particular argument,
if you can even make a case for it, with "don't do that, it's a bad idea,
for the reasons I have outlined in other postings".
Regards,
Terry Lambert
terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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