Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 04:23:43 +0100 From: Michael Nottebrock <michaelnottebrock@gmx.net> To: Oliver Eikemeier <eikemeier@fillmore-labs.com> Cc: freebsd-ports@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: cvs commit: ports/devel/libvanessa_adt Makefile pkg-plist ports/devel/libvanessa_adt/files patch-ltmain.sh Message-ID: <200403250423.47441.michaelnottebrock@gmx.net> In-Reply-To: <40624417.5040209@fillmore-labs.com> References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0403231422350.6103-100000@pancho> <200403240109.09430.michaelnottebrock@gmx.net> <40624417.5040209@fillmore-labs.com>
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--Boundary-02=_DDlYA8k8DWFbScU Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday 25 March 2004 03:29, Oliver Eikemeier wrote: =2D---------- [Long monologue following - skip forward to the last paragrap= h if=20 you're easily annoyed by long mails] --------------------------------------= =2D- > So far I followed the former discussions, but I can't remember an example > where something *really* uses the .la files. Yes, although I keep repeating it, nobody seems to ever remember: KDE _real= ly_=20 uses them, as it _really_ uses lt_dlopen(). Also third party KDE applicatio= ns=20 will use them (if they happen to load modules or plugins - a simple=20 preferences dialog can be such a module for example), since they use kdelib= s=20 which in turn use lt_dlopen(). > Just `they might be used' is=20 > not really helpful. > I guess documentation when and why these=20 > should be installed would be nice. Otherwise you have lots of ports where > they would be needed, but aren't there, or ports where they are useless > but are installed. That is exactly the problem. Imagine this: A programmer, sometime in the future, writes an application i= n=20 which he uses lt_dlopen() to load a shared-library installed by your port a= nd=20 somebody makes a FreeBSD port of said application and finds that the=20 application does not work because the .la file is missing. You cannot predi= ct=20 this. You cannot tell if an .la file will be useless forever or if it will = be=20 needed by something tomorrow. This actually happened a short while ago btw. KDE 3.2.1 (kdelibs-3.2.1, mor= e=20 precisely) can use libidn to translate International Domain Names. It tries= =20 to lt_dlopen() libidn - and it doesn't work on FreeBSD, because the libidn= =20 porter made sure the port doesn't install libtool archives, in 'good=20 tradition'. We at kde@ decided that in this case, we would rather NOT stir up yet anoth= er=20 debate about libtool archives, since we're all really quite fed up being to= ld=20 that lt_dlopen() sucks and libltdl should be fixed and that nobody should=20 really need libtool archives. So Andy Fawcett made a patch to kdelibs to us= e=20 the native FreeBSD dlopen() - unportable of course, but in this case this i= s=20 bearable since in KDE HEAD libidn will actually be linked into KDE in the=20 traditional way and not be (lt_)dlopen()'d anymore. As you might notice, I'm really tired of the whole subject. If we could jus= t=20 drop the 'good tradition' until somebody _really_ changes libltdl to not=20 require libtool archives on the FreeBSD platform (note that I'm talking abo= ut=20 an upstream fix here, in the GNU source), everybody would have at max one=20 megabyte or so less diskspace less in the future (taken by libtool archives= )=20 and that's it. Then, with time, as projects adopt the new version of libltd= l,=20 the libtool archives would simply fade out of existence again. =2D------------------------------[End of monologue]------------------------= =2D---- However, I would already be totally happy if we could just add a paragraph = to=20 the porter's handbook that says "If a port maintainer requests that your port SHOULD install libtool archiv= es=20 because another port needs them, you shall comply with his request." To me, this seems like a workable and fair compromise and it would be a nic= e=20 thing to point to if anybody feels like beating the dead horse again. We=20 wouldn't even need to change portlint's warnings that way. Sound good? =2D-=20 ,_, | Michael Nottebrock | lofi@freebsd.org (/^ ^\) | FreeBSD - The Power to Serve | http://www.freebsd.org \u/ | K Desktop Environment on FreeBSD | http://freebsd.kde.org --Boundary-02=_DDlYA8k8DWFbScU Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Description: signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQBAYlDDXhc68WspdLARAiC9AJkBHpMVg0ESmbQuc/evb8ExI3NYTQCgnpGM +bTJYeA5NzcP0mN0i7hUg50= =7wJ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Boundary-02=_DDlYA8k8DWFbScU--
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