From owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 26 10:49:54 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A39A16A4CE for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail.blarg.net (zoot.blarg.net [206.124.128.9]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D52643F93 for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from abowhill@blarg.net) Received: from kosmos.my.net (12-230-212-176.client.attbi.com [12.230.212.176]) by mail.blarg.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 668D733FAF for ; Wed, 26 Nov 2003 10:49:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from kosmos.my.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kosmos.my.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id hAQ6p9j1055876 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:51:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kosmos@kosmos.my.net) Received: (from kosmos@localhost) by kosmos.my.net (8.12.10/8.12.10/Submit) id hAQ6p9c2055875 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:51:09 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kosmos) Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2003 22:51:09 -0800 From: Allan Bowhill To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-ID: <20031126065109.GD55245@kosmos.my.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org References: <20031027223648.GC1004@zi025.glhnet.mhn.de> <20031028000708.GA52155@kosmos.mynet> <20031028004319.GF1004@zi025.glhnet.mhn.de> <20031125072702.GG340@freepuppy.bellavista.cz> <20031125064404.GA38625@kosmos.my.net> <20031125193010.GB67289@freepuppy.bellavista.cz> <20031125094426.GA39119@kosmos.my.net> <20031125222426.GA3585@falcon.midgard.homeip.net> <20031125152800.GA40176@kosmos.my.net> <3FC4B45F.4080409@potentialtech.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3FC4B45F.4080409@potentialtech.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.1i X-URL: http://www.blarg.net/~abowhill/ Subject: Re: Bug in ports howto question X-BeenThere: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Non technical items related to the community List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 18:49:54 -0000 On 0, Bill Moran wrote: :Allan, : :I'm not sure if your understanding of the term is wrong, or your :understaning :of programming/sysadmin is wrong, but: : :The definition you give of "mutually exclusive" is correct. Your contention :that sysadmin and programming skillsets are mutually exclusive is completely :unsupportable. They aren't even orthogonal. There are many times a :sysadmin :resorts to writing quick scripts (programs) in order to do his job, and a :programmer with no knowledge of sysadmin is going to write software that is :impossible to administer. Likewise, a systems administrator who writes quick scripts to fix things is not doing "real" programming. This argument has been made to me on a number of occasions by programmers. There is some legitimacy to this statement. A programmer in a software development environment has a completely different mindset than a sysadmin in an Internet shop. The reasons for writing code are different. The development process and languages are different. The environment is different. There are nuances of each type of job that require companies to distinguish between the two occupations. Coursework to gain professional skills is different. In the practical day-to-day sense, there is a lot of overlap. But to say systems administration == programming is false. :Even your example of skiing/driving is wrong. These two _are_ orthogonal :(meaning they require separate skill sets not dependent on each other) but :they are hardly even close to being mutually exclusive (which would mean :that :you get to pick one to learn, because you can never then learn the other) :I can prove this in the real world because I know people who can both ski :and drive. The analogy was not mine, and neither was that point. I did not say that a person could not possess both skills. My point was the skills themselves technically are exclusive to one another. Not that someone couldn't have both. :Fact is, I don't think it's possible for a skillset to be mutually exclusive :with any other skillset. : :Philosophies could be. A terrorist philosophy is multutally exclusive with :a pacafist philosophy because you can not believe in killing to achieve your :means at the same time you believe that violence is always wrong. : :Does this make sense? Sure. A terrorist philosophy is in opposition to a pacifist philosophy. I agree. But I am not saying systems administration is in opposition to programming. Unlike terrorists and pacifists, they can certainly complement one another. They just, in the pure sense, share little to nothing in common in and of themselves. :-- :Bill Moran :Potential Technologies :http://www.potentialtech.com : :_______________________________________________ :freebsd-chat@freebsd.org mailing list :http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-chat :To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-chat-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" -- Allan Bowhill abowhill@blarg.net You can always tell the Christmas season is here when you start getting incredibly dense, tinfoil-and-ribbon- wrapped lumps in the mail. Fruitcakes make ideal gifts because the Postal Service has been unable to find a way to damage them. They last forever, largely because nobody ever eats them. In fact, many smart people save the fruitcakes they receive and send them back to the original givers the next year; some fruitcakes have been passed back and forth for hundreds of years. The easiest way to make a fruitcake is to buy a darkish cake, then pound some old, hard fruit into it with a mallet. Be sure to wear safety glasses. -- Dave Barry, "Simple, Homespun Gifts"