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Date:      Sat, 11 Jan 1997 14:59:31 -0700 (MST)
From:      Terry Lambert <terry@lambert.org>
To:        stesin@gu.net (Andrew Stesin)
Cc:        terry@lambert.org, scrappy@hub.org, hackers@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: mount -o async on a news servre
Message-ID:  <199701112159.OAA24261@phaeton.artisoft.com>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.3.95.970112015625.4758B-100000@trifork.gu.net> from "Andrew Stesin" at Jan 12, 97 02:17:05 am

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> > The INN history file would probably need to be rebuilt after each crash
> 
> 	God save me! as I told earlier. :-)
> 
> 	Just for now I consider that "noatime" mount option
> 	is the best balance between reliability and performance
> 	on FreeBSD, right?

Probably; considering that you don't have make dependencies.

It *may* result in some articles being prematurely expired
following a crash; not a real problem.

The "access time" option is mostly security related, and for
data migration to an archive ...neither one of these should be
a big problem on a news server.

There is some confusion, I think, between "shall be marked for update"
vs. "shall be updated" vs. "shall have updates committed to stable
storage" when people try to interpret POSIX.  I think most of the
wins you get from noatime could come without the sacrifices if
"shall be updated" was interpreted to mean something other than
committing the date stamps to stable storage (a sync write in
the current code, each time a directory or file is accessed).

Barring hacking on the code, "noatime" is a good compromise soloution
for using the existing code without modifiecation.


If I were running a big site, I would be tempted to run a reading
host and a *seperate* posting host.

A reading host would be, by definition, a passive news spool with no
locally generated data; I'd run the FS for the news spool in async mode.

Using a seperate server for posting, I could run the posting host
with atime and sync... so my users postings would not be lost because
of a crash.

Depending on how the client software operates, you might have to run
a request forwarder (ie: the posting host may have to pretend to be
a full nntp server to let your users read from the same host, but
it would forward all nntp read requests to the passive news spool,
while satisfying write requests locally.

Articles posted by users would be spooled to the reading host as
"just another feed".  In event of a crash, the lost data can be
recovered from all feed hosts... including the posting host.  If
the news had not been propagated priior to the crash, it would still
be propagated after recover.


Ideally, a near future version of FreeBSD will have soft updates, and
you will no longer get better speed from running async (soft updates
give you speed equal to async and reliability equal to sync).


					Terry Lambert
					terry@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.



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