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Date:      Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:36:14 +0000
From:      blubee blubeeme <gurenchan@gmail.com>
To:        galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu
Cc:        FreeBSD <freebsd-questions@freebsd.org>
Subject:   Re: CUDA under FreeBSD
Message-ID:  <CALM2mEkDhcKvoD-YK2Bh=OVX-qupNP_9LSX3C8dSLaDn24Z=Kg@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <52115.10.150.179.124.1513276825.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>
References:  <34331.107.77.207.211.1512384505.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <0545699d-9df7-ced2-4990-27e3ecb8e531@ShaneWare.Biz> <BN6PR2001MB17307310025DD6DE64A563A9803D0@BN6PR2001MB1730.namprd20.prod.outlook.com> <22836.128.135.52.6.1513189941.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <CALM2mEmqxCiHVDFXM3vT+E1aduZQk171ouM5QhrH5dgLXu_rqQ@mail.gmail.com> <52115.10.150.179.124.1513276825.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu>

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On Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 02:40 Valeri Galtsev <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
wrote:

>
> On Wed, December 13, 2017 8:43 pm, blubee blubeeme wrote:
> > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Valeri Galtsev
> > <galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, December 5, 2017 4:04 am, Carmel NY wrote:
> >> > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 2:53 AM, Shane Ambler stated:
> >> >> On 04/12/2017 21:19, galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote:
> >> >> > On Mon, December 4, 2017 4:24 am, Carmel NY wrote:
> >> >> >> Out of morbid curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could tell me
> >> the
> >> real reason that Nvidia does not support CUDA under
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Arrogance would be my guess.
> >> >> The morbid part is that they give us the linux libcuda, so we should
> >> be
> >> able to
> >> >> run linux binaries that use cuda, just not native apps.
> >> >> >> FreeBSD? Also, what are the realistic expectations for it getting
> >> supported shortly?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Zero is my estimate. The way to let one's steam about them is just
> >> not
> >> >> > to buy ther hardware. Their attitude to open sourse and
> >> unwillingness
> >> to disclose details of their hardware was always much worse than that
> >> of their competitors (ATI/AMD, matrox...).
> >> >> >
> >> >> > This is just my opinion based on my subjective observations.
> >> >
> >> > Personally, I have always considered Nvidia products to be superior.
> >>
> >> Well, this is just your subjective opinion opposing my subjective
> >> opinion.
> >> With all due respect.
> >>
> >> I have seen nvidia chips giving artifacts (probably after mild overheat,
> >> really just mild). I can not compare some product (to consider it
> >> superior
> >> to another) if I can not use that product fully under variety of systems
> >> _I_ use. And the last is true about nvidia video chips. As opposed to
> >> variety of their competitors.
> >>
> >> At some point Apple agreed with me (well, of course independent on me
> >> made
> >> up their opinion ;-). There were infamous MacBook Pro 15 inch made by
> >> Apple somewhere around 2012. These contained discrete video chip by
> >> NVIDIA
> >> (in addition to integrated on intel CPU substrate... I'm lying, it was
> >> inside CPU case, but etched on different substrate...). Anyway, there
> >> was
> >> some crap about that NVIDIA chip, so Apple didn't manage to make later
> >> releases of MacOS work with later hardware and with that 2012 MacBook
> >> Pro,
> >> kernel just crashed inside NVIDIA kernel module. Apple even had (really
> >> short lived) program of replacing that hardware, realizing that this is
> >> just crap. Program closed very quickly, so only small portion of bad
> >> hardware was actually replaced. My guess is: nvidia decided not to carry
> >> their side of financial losses. After which Apple made good IMHO
> >> decision,
> >> and switched over to AMD (which are actually bought out by AMD well
> >> known
> >> ATI). Incidentally, way back someone made excellent argument when
> >> comparing ATI with NVIDIA. Here it is: NVIDIA releases new drivers (or
> >> driver updates) almost monthly. ATI takes about half a year to release
> >> driver. From which the conclusion can be made (which I fully agree with)
> >> that ATI thoroughly tests and debugs drivers before releasing them (and
> >> doesn't need to fix crap in the driver soon after release). Not true
> >> about
> >> NVIDIA, whose drivers quite likely are much buggier.
> >>
> >> Anyway, just my observations, potentially a bit biased by the fact that
> >> NVIDIA discloses much less about chip internals than, say, ATI (hence
> >> the
> >> ability or lack of such by open source driver developers to write decent
> >> open source drivers.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> I'm sure on an episode of bsdnow, they mentioned asking an nvidia dev
> >> at
> >> >> one of the conferences and they said there shouldn't be any technical
> >> reason, it just isn't enabled in the build and they would look into it.
> >> Still hasn't helped any.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Which just confirms that individual developer is likely less arrogant
> >> than
> >> a company as a whole.
> >>
> >> Well, all I said is just my subjective opinion based on my (by no means
> >> thorough) observations.
> >>
> >> Valeri
> >>
> >> > Interesting. I was not aware of that. It would seem to me that there
> >> should be more of an
> >> > concerted effort to get this issue resolved.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Carmel
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >> Valeri Galtsev
> >> Sr System Administrator
> >> Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
> >> Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
> >> University of Chicago
> >> Phone: 773-702-4247
> >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list
> >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions
> >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-
> >> unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
> >>
> >
> > Here's a thorough overview of the history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA it's a
> > three
> > part but very good, for those who want to know.
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6TiSdKT0A
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1bp9eSfwo
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-YM_3YBm0
>
> The only trouble I have with your links above is: you have misrepresented
> what they are. They are not overview of history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA as
> you said. They are very nice NVIDIA commercials.
>
> Valeri
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Valeri Galtsev
> Sr System Administrator
> Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics
> Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics
> University of Chicago
> Phone: 773-702-4247
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
I don't see how you could call those nvidia commercials if u actually
listened to the content of the videos and watch nvidia business practices.



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