From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 15 04:36:26 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41669E9A54B for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x233.google.com (mail-it0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08216668E9 for ; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:36:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gurenchan@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d16so16160178itj.1 for ; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:36:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=HksZGD8Cv0VHbfs50wxnvK5g3Xajcck67cDF8dXvGNE=; b=Wm61sIlXrMxcK2s5RYqSsiY5TdbyVEDSoArY924rWY7DG7bdI6gZE8UBrM3DykjaFN U7s0UJ8LG8t/sPxZSHjtV7QlWMlc+9zvNUm+J4fT+PYy2huozbgDivLmfNsLj29IWTQb 3ION+eJa+yAaMxpkSG4ykewsyVmHNjOd6XO7e3EFKjJ51KbmppVsADc/sW5RolUqwuYH /WtS++Nn5xGyvVIcbv+hsafv9y+caXBWhOBD4KLuj+E/23YNVVK1q6z2RbtkYRgnK4Xw op1ubkzrUI6hRq8fPuz4Z70cXGMUgh8V8CD2/9/PnpF20tl+3VDQlpJJJZxVqbN4tLzk 0EEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=HksZGD8Cv0VHbfs50wxnvK5g3Xajcck67cDF8dXvGNE=; b=b+R6pdW2PzQ5w+m5w8p+3Vo22YF0TPmowuA/hea6hfuVzhA0IAKlf36FBaC9uCfADp 3LY2bLuOeJzicQpmYIwKbdO+Z1ngPAJe3uCGhd4JnSwFEgMcoFkfiPZh5OkZVw66oPO/ ebR6JwKkGyy3+o6qA+F6iW1pohDElgCyCRu2GcR9vNMuiGJn+ew8vTqEAQ/u1kfXEgbE 8Cjc4Uk4A/74neGfPGhpK2rbGAuqrT0bgQphdDskowyRTCWewomHe1qKi59y/g9ZYiUp AqEqFglxNtbgHhNT6cG9ZJ3ihmnbgyue4Gumzl/eanGIuVikZwPyYPYzfQqWObGNjUSv II0w== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIGb4OqwxyYyFhf67UhI8qecBXca1l0B2ewTgO+GU2o6dZbqoJc EAXW0pZ61IZxawY2GWqkWjUSsWNPkvyHIRHrr3zgCA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovMF600H8Uzc7WMYhrGnUEDD4Aj734fUjUucUzYVs0/xoTT8Ap9zWw03/bS0mg6fRXoZ+/Y/Q0iGQFhQPIw9is= X-Received: by 10.36.116.135 with SMTP id o129mr5946405itc.119.1513312585067; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 20:36:25 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <34331.107.77.207.211.1512384505.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <0545699d-9df7-ced2-4990-27e3ecb8e531@ShaneWare.Biz> <22836.128.135.52.6.1513189941.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <52115.10.150.179.124.1513276825.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <52115.10.150.179.124.1513276825.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> From: blubee blubeeme Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:36:14 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: CUDA under FreeBSD To: galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu Cc: FreeBSD Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 04:36:26 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017, 02:40 Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > On Wed, December 13, 2017 8:43 pm, blubee blubeeme wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 2:32 AM, Valeri Galtsev > > > > wrote: > > > >> On Tue, December 5, 2017 4:04 am, Carmel NY wrote: > >> > On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 2:53 AM, Shane Ambler stated: > >> >> On 04/12/2017 21:19, galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu wrote: > >> >> > On Mon, December 4, 2017 4:24 am, Carmel NY wrote: > >> >> >> Out of morbid curiosity, I was wondering if anyone could tell me > >> the > >> real reason that Nvidia does not support CUDA under > >> >> > > >> >> > Arrogance would be my guess. > >> >> The morbid part is that they give us the linux libcuda, so we should > >> be > >> able to > >> >> run linux binaries that use cuda, just not native apps. > >> >> >> FreeBSD? Also, what are the realistic expectations for it getting > >> supported shortly? > >> >> > > >> >> > Zero is my estimate. The way to let one's steam about them is just > >> not > >> >> > to buy ther hardware. Their attitude to open sourse and > >> unwillingness > >> to disclose details of their hardware was always much worse than that > >> of their competitors (ATI/AMD, matrox...). > >> >> > > >> >> > This is just my opinion based on my subjective observations. > >> > > >> > Personally, I have always considered Nvidia products to be superior. > >> > >> Well, this is just your subjective opinion opposing my subjective > >> opinion. > >> With all due respect. > >> > >> I have seen nvidia chips giving artifacts (probably after mild overheat, > >> really just mild). I can not compare some product (to consider it > >> superior > >> to another) if I can not use that product fully under variety of systems > >> _I_ use. And the last is true about nvidia video chips. As opposed to > >> variety of their competitors. > >> > >> At some point Apple agreed with me (well, of course independent on me > >> made > >> up their opinion ;-). There were infamous MacBook Pro 15 inch made by > >> Apple somewhere around 2012. These contained discrete video chip by > >> NVIDIA > >> (in addition to integrated on intel CPU substrate... I'm lying, it was > >> inside CPU case, but etched on different substrate...). Anyway, there > >> was > >> some crap about that NVIDIA chip, so Apple didn't manage to make later > >> releases of MacOS work with later hardware and with that 2012 MacBook > >> Pro, > >> kernel just crashed inside NVIDIA kernel module. Apple even had (really > >> short lived) program of replacing that hardware, realizing that this is > >> just crap. Program closed very quickly, so only small portion of bad > >> hardware was actually replaced. My guess is: nvidia decided not to carry > >> their side of financial losses. After which Apple made good IMHO > >> decision, > >> and switched over to AMD (which are actually bought out by AMD well > >> known > >> ATI). Incidentally, way back someone made excellent argument when > >> comparing ATI with NVIDIA. Here it is: NVIDIA releases new drivers (or > >> driver updates) almost monthly. ATI takes about half a year to release > >> driver. From which the conclusion can be made (which I fully agree with) > >> that ATI thoroughly tests and debugs drivers before releasing them (and > >> doesn't need to fix crap in the driver soon after release). Not true > >> about > >> NVIDIA, whose drivers quite likely are much buggier. > >> > >> Anyway, just my observations, potentially a bit biased by the fact that > >> NVIDIA discloses much less about chip internals than, say, ATI (hence > >> the > >> ability or lack of such by open source driver developers to write decent > >> open source drivers. > >> > >> > > >> >> I'm sure on an episode of bsdnow, they mentioned asking an nvidia dev > >> at > >> >> one of the conferences and they said there shouldn't be any technical > >> reason, it just isn't enabled in the build and they would look into it. > >> Still hasn't helped any. > >> > > >> > >> Which just confirms that individual developer is likely less arrogant > >> than > >> a company as a whole. > >> > >> Well, all I said is just my subjective opinion based on my (by no means > >> thorough) observations. > >> > >> Valeri > >> > >> > Interesting. I was not aware of that. It would seem to me that there > >> should be more of an > >> > concerted effort to get this issue resolved. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Carmel > >> > > >> > >> > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> Valeri Galtsev > >> Sr System Administrator > >> Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics > >> Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics > >> University of Chicago > >> Phone: 773-702-4247 > >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > >> https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > >> To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions- > >> unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > >> > > > > Here's a thorough overview of the history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA it's a > > three > > part but very good, for those who want to know. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j6TiSdKT0A > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1bp9eSfwo > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-YM_3YBm0 > > The only trouble I have with your links above is: you have misrepresented > what they are. They are not overview of history of ATI/AMD vs NVIDIA as > you said. They are very nice NVIDIA commercials. > > Valeri > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > Valeri Galtsev > Sr System Administrator > Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics > Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics > University of Chicago > Phone: 773-702-4247 > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > I don't see how you could call those nvidia commercials if u actually listened to the content of the videos and watch nvidia business practices.