Date: 20 Oct 2001 11:43:45 -0700 From: swear@blarg.net (Gary W. Swearingen) To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Religions (was Re: helping victims of terror) Message-ID: <m6y9m6i23i.9m6@localhost.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20011020004426.A45044@moondog.org> References: <20011004132949.D16297@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20010924170815.0180aee8@threespace.com> <20010925001027.A750@lpt.ens.fr> <4.3.2.7.2.20011003210717.0442cb20@localhost> <20011004132949.D16297@lpt.ens.fr> <20011019154414.A43110@moondog.org> <4.3.2.7.2.20011019203955.0464d920@localhost> <20011020004426.A45044@moondog.org>
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Elden Fenison <moon_dog@spamcop.net> writes: > Right... the Bible itself... and actually Jesus' own words pretty much > tell us that much of the Old Testament law was "superceded" by the New > Testament teachings. ... > It seems to me that > it pretty much invalidates a teaching when one is allowed to pick and > choose what parts of that teaching suits them and what parts do not. > Especially when one of the foundations of that teaching states that the > teaching in it's entirety is divinely inspired (as Christianity does). ... > If > we are allowed to toss out a portion of the Bible for whatever reason, > we are no longer following God, but our own will, and essentially making > our own rules. Some people who call themselves Christians believe that the Bible does not contain the words of Jesus, but only a few second-hand memories of old men and many concoctions, very much influenced by their philosophical, theological, and even political biases. It's hard to see how such Christians are left with enough to build a religion around, but but they seem to do well enough by building upon "love" (of God and Man) which everyone agrees is the main message of Jesus (Matt 22:36-40). The rest, who believe that the Bible's words of Jesus are either authentic or divinely inspired and reliable, have have a couple of problems regarding extra-biblical beliefs. The first is too complex to explain well, but it has to do with the authority given to the apostles (and maybe some of their "descendants"). Many believe that the early church was given various extra-biblical teachings with all of authority of God himself. Some think that's still true in some circumstances. The second is Jesus' supposed words: "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your rememberance all that I said to you". This is a very large loophole indeed, which many use liberally. So, while I might think that Christians "should" base their beliefs on the Bible, I have to admit that people who don't should be "allowed" to call themselves Christian too. Matt 23:23: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others. Note the last phrase. Some few claim that is Christian doctrine, coming from the mouth of Christ. Others have latched onto the "justice and mercy" part (at least in words) while they and almost all other Christians have neglected the lighter provisions of the law. The very early Christians (mostly, but not all Jews) didn't, but later ones did, initially under the influence of Paul who claimed direct divine guidance. Each of these things has a counter-argument, of course, but surely Christianity has many definitions, and people shouldn't casually speak as if it has only one. Same for "free software" - that other religion. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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