From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Jun 11 10:50:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFA9132A9D2 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49jLGc27DWz4Nq1 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:50:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id t9so5738464ioj.13 for ; Thu, 11 Jun 2020 03:50:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; 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Thu, 11 Jun 2020 03:49:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <171506d5-19aa-359e-c21d-f07257c52ebd@freenetMail.de> <6a4f6a15-ec43-03f6-1a41-a109e445f026@anatoli.ws> <00225a04-237d-9051-9aea-12c192106a20@anatoli.ws> <373EDB20-C750-42E2-A41B-EA61F6E49807@kicp.uchicago.edu> <20200609120136.00005b3c@seibercom.net> <2393a1e0-b073-950a-78be-9f57d8e9934b@anatoli.ws> <20200610063555.00003707@seibercom.net> <82F57D0D-E0EC-49F7-824E-20A296C9F549@kicp.uchicago.edu> <250b853a-b436-0e99-b05c-9abd6b6019ef@panix.com> <20200611070630.2cb42786.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200611091449.383e1d83@archlinux> <53a6833e-db63-2395-4d2e-f05a9b1fb269@boxsci.com> <20200611112418.0bb0c896b685c84ed8d6a8f6@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <20200611112418.0bb0c896b685c84ed8d6a8f6@sohara.org> From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 06:49:47 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: freebsd vs. netbsd To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49jLGc27DWz4Nq1 X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=lVZD8crB; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.023]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.001]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.29)[-0.287]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2020 10:50:00 -0000 On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 6:24 AM Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 05:53:30 -0400 > Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > > As I said before the top posting rule really does fly in the face of > > convention for most non-technical/mailing list oriented mail users. > > However it is a convention older than the public internet and one > that is very common in mailing lists and universal on USENET. So since this > is a mailing list it is a good idea for newcomers to be aware of the > conventions and the reasons for them. These are not FreeBSD conventions, > nor is asking people to follow it one, they are mailing list and USENET > conventions older and wider than FreeBSD. > > The problem is not in informing people of the convention, it is when people post messages like "Stop top-posting!!!" as being their entire message and not even including so much as a please or offering any explanation at all to their comment. That kind of message is just rude no matter how correct or incorrect it is and that is the aloof/arrogant reputation I am talking about. A good example is the original comment by Ottavio I was commenting on "You keep on top-posting and breaking basic and established etiquette." ... "I wonder what makes you think you are in the position of lecturing.". If I was new to FreeBSD and saw someone do that my first reaction would be f**k you (the poster) and this OS I am using something else if people are that rude. As to the comment of how common top posting is or not almost every web based MUA defaults to it and since most people don't use mailing lists they by reflex (even if they know better) will just start typing and then see it is a top-post only after they hit return! (I have done that a number of times for example). It should be noted many discussion forums have also adopted the default of top posting when making a direct quote (for many of the same reasons). -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org