From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 00:48:54 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3CA2DF57F2 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ua0-x233.google.com (mail-ua0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B7B44760FD for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:48:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from woodsb02@gmail.com) Received: by mail-ua0-x233.google.com with SMTP id r11so16847175uah.12 for ; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:48:53 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=dIWsNCH8qeXo82x4o2T2q3Oqu3PzZB0VUyCuwJusTfQ=; b=QRUP+o9igiHLxmr67dW5BO44fV2WgVW/RfQ8Paz9CpyentUdq0EH5pb/SMLOOLZrTZ CclIEshqj45tOOXvGokLokAseAAqgsY/mzLUv0GHDiMVLWWytvip1q1Evaf17VCJ9iT8 oJ2gMq23g0OnUJiMzi8WCjFZ+wrMMi+VnsVFVQ8z3hY3369dBBdc2zmDlSvAw5bjB6P9 dhHx2OlHAV6QnYAOKjceaBn+X/gH7ueLihnzupSYHcfBAF9i/w6/tsGi68akK+z3uZRM yGOmOJN03AO8HIjkQJwluWXojy7lviwQ3T/25Chld9LsDbBm0kbsjwLQ2Ni6VdsKEpAJ FXAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=dIWsNCH8qeXo82x4o2T2q3Oqu3PzZB0VUyCuwJusTfQ=; b=icEeo7qllocGMV/1uP9TwbMSZG1Q5XOXURablc/3w3AGjnEYGqkU/+fpuO8+NWMP/F uyUVUIrdf9aodpJhjdlJAMoVcod2D4yUobiNEsUrfPj074GWzJwqJKS0l+NEqbxEzhAv UdAEc+spLRkfxPnIde1/W1uBC5+8F3UsAZDWvJqBJDt7pbYsfScukmEWLUS/nMCTSdtv owLwbv1KhSOxv+kznEwDlAUWmLBNpV06Ave1gSf6siuO0fiuukpfwuXjPhCq2NoaNQlz 26LdzctM6S0+dKXslGmcyrXKYU/tI4DH/Y2JaxEJfFfubysP94Gz+SWhjHu+pp8q92VB nUNw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX534P5/ftUTKMy9jmqd0BeiKlgjVdGDXtonRpcoL9WAIvFPTwQU rEubbBeoRmyGUJ5rQgYFTYAlnkxImhnTNdOJCDaZ2A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZYwrnE3YLVhTM6QMKCxRg8snrFMfhSdpPQAYFwITuGG/yMZvTGS2u7owP0rggQGmD1bDUmu+jPwxxEoaGCeU4= X-Received: by 10.159.35.84 with SMTP id 78mr26209568uae.188.1511657332700; Sat, 25 Nov 2017 16:48:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20171125162116.GA7147@03c0.comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <20171125162116.GA7147@03c0.comcast.net> From: Ben Woods Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:48:41 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_why_pkgs_with_vulnerabilities_on_quarterly_aren?= =?UTF-8?Q?=E2=80=99t_updated?= To: rplace Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 00:48:54 -0000 On Sun, 26 Nov 2017 at 12:22 am, rplace wrote: > > Every day I check pkg audit -F on 11.1 from quarterly, and for like a mon= th > it=E2=80=99s listed many xorg-server vulnerabilities. And now it=E2=80=99= s listed > firefox-esr > vulnerabilities for what seems like at least a week. > > For xorg-server, I see that there=E2=80=99s > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D223286 > which has drawn zero attention. > > I see that there are newer versions in latest. > > How do I tell when issues have fallen between the cracks vs > a change deliberately not being brought to quarterly? > > In cases like this, does it make sense to talk to maintainers, > or to one of the pkg/ports lists, or=E2=80=A6? Hi rplace, Quartlery branches are definitely supposed to receive security updates. Sometime people forget, and if this is the case you absolutely should remind them. Ideally this would just be the minimal update to address the vulnerability, without bringing new features. However, patches do not always exist, and sometime this is not easy. Where security issues have been addressed in the head branch, but not the quarterly branch, I recommend: - checking if the commit to head had a MFH request (merge from head)... perhaps the committer is just waiting for the approval to merge the commit to quarterly. - if there was a bug report, check if it has been closed or if it is still open awaiting the MFH (there is a flag in bugzilla that can be set to show this is the status). - if a number of days (closer to a week) has passed since it was addressed in head and it still hasn=E2=80=99t been addressed in quarterly, or there w= as no MFH commentary to suggest it would be addressed in quarterly, then I suggest either commenting on the bug report that was related to the commit to state the MFH has been forgotten (reopen the bug), or raise a new bug report, ensuring that the person who made the commit to head gets automatically assigned as the assignee after raising or add them to the CC list manually. Regards, Ben > -- -- From: Benjamin Woods woodsb02@gmail.com From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Nov 26 22:10:03 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DE44DF1860 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from datdevil@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (unknown [127.0.1.3]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B088798FB for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from datdevil@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 27175DF185F; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:03 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24FBDDF185E for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from datdevil@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D624E798FA for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from datdevil@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id h205so33567404iof.5 for ; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:10:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=MpJxg6GB4p1Bpy8rF8uk6V+k8DzoPf5wMuCmwHqaisQ=; b=LkqtqpEes4W+Be7vLJ9KheCIR+TiC/jp069fEfOLxdWx8CmesR020LWPP2hh42aYVs WY4o9E9QvciFo4LnEFTg+Aqo7G8dFCu9KO7hCPagjhhF8YWF2zIjoqoo8LMFPpYCOsZV eB0QudGYorQtuv1Vfa/kgqLuX/U8EwIlO6IEYBv81bxqyfy4OLFUB7pWp8ZeoT2L4pDZ vMqikV+7TszSJ1EcEVpg2o3OTPBvkYFBlwxjYiTpdjwRm1dOpTVYuLq34XyVvhjy00DA 6ydL3uozvFpFH4zMLJWaRfEMaz2SXdsWJg/krjuh9vWBZgag84RXUghWR0Oiz7V5H7V/ ZD0A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=MpJxg6GB4p1Bpy8rF8uk6V+k8DzoPf5wMuCmwHqaisQ=; b=bj79tidRDURS/XjZkP8no8TykbYu0TYXWg0W0LMG7lg1xooGMxh3s9RRY7vN6LCc5g W8baRr5v7DX1ZTKvq1b5rBHQgak3V1DFfHfwd3cA6gijuV83XWJMKiA4Zf6w48yDqHO0 ralzJjELQN/tCH9BmM8n04/9FBupa+ErDo0KoeQCFLT1AX13C2MWhdN4obsrTvReeNU5 lwOfQFlo4mivVoiv2uXRlSe7axwPLacLcRYUd3fyApalviZdoUdZjTys8Jt/A8JKr8NF LR9LZ51fIg5FUFNotjzeHc0mEr3MzHcx7Xs5b7Eeax2i5gHV6Oe9XJseSgy41J8BHGWM j/IQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7owWhtJkWAJfL/gw1DhKuJCaHpTkefwbH0bufK92WggUC3Yy4N 8RBX37k5QA18kNhzcShTxvSdSU9pNTjmzwLYh8k= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYnB3p26mplMjHhILqtqZiOTTc+Hq4ujx2r4zwpuzB+LsbjtLjJrcCUZe8thMY1i9p4EHdIKeEhw3mTB3bG4xs= X-Received: by 10.107.102.19 with SMTP id a19mr35852901ioc.108.1511734202000; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:10:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.2.180.99 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.2.180.99 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Nov 2017 14:10:01 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: luke paitson Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 09:10:01 +1100 Message-ID: Subject: Regarding Ian Smith To: questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2017 22:10:03 -0000 Hello list. regarding recent correspondence Ian Smith (dad) will be out of action for approximately 1 week due to being in hospital. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 16:34:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2062DB8C33 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:34:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rahulrny03@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x22a.google.com (mail-wr0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 87BC27A1D5 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:34:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rahulrny03@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id o14so27008603wrf.9 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:34:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KEe2r2fq/srlDupLjdxQTRGAhw1wkokHx25feeu/h0A=; b=foOdqY8DniGPcomJYFZR5AskDjwRQWXLLhRsYOodNEQtY+TvWQsZ0LnLorwK2gEmQi /mrXhektcs/BMzkmWUUf1ET9+L81CKljo9O5b/A6tbhXZOH9Sw7xp2OlF4gFgk0fRtQ5 3BXWju3XZNRpIJ/RdDnLTr0Tmg5C2c9IGXTZ4306XIFvgvjufHk7NcC90kXQsqc0fC+I nX06/2ICThdyoRbnrriKlbdsN6GgmaDbzA/muV2aD7cuyHSf8ALvGPV5ZmPGR+IQfwMH k+9rAKkGUEhxpoDzmqgFzWg+uPhX6Y51IXz/WegsSDmaCRmxPPD5NB9Th8ssC26NT5pm XtRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KEe2r2fq/srlDupLjdxQTRGAhw1wkokHx25feeu/h0A=; b=tgKstiWyA5xqmzpW/9grXYD6wvKI5KoNPOexF34ZbeOdKtzen16mVRIbACq/vW/bJf dAQUps6DBNc48X1paL0+DNsYgt2xnoVIcFBvIUuynkFUnVMzN8X8qUeIWPj5glftVGdT AB6gozd/FvWxbQHE6WAboW+TDEd8B4QIL06ySbGSyhU0GfP+fgfMlQqrXOdNVEkR6vO/ Z+L3i7j6RjqJia7zcLIXyjHp+/KBohsYUHduLNBNfkBLSoCjxo0Irai5u29fF1XjMHnu acirdnjtNNobcw+JnkOBl3nrEU8Ry0Eeg5TLNLCTmwvCP34+4RiMBPtNBf3ITPpcawxf SXiQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5G5AskANE5T/A9gUdZjoz3EcZ9QGl7BoH0kYvZClrw2L2FUgRy UCYVFcOt+QFMMMItIk+eMNwgUW8Y4/S3wpiH/mCSHQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbsFUFmTyI6z/pnnmB516TvKh1OBz+okIIOUaMTU0JQBHbJkTQoUVc9LpAIEN3eBZxSLFc+hMHMMR9PPxWAQl0= X-Received: by 10.223.176.113 with SMTP id g46mr1991815wra.267.1511800457598; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:34:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.45.202 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:34:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.28.45.202 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 08:34:16 -0800 (PST) From: Rahul raj Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Questions About To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 16:34:20 -0000 I've a Questions ? How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:03:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C074DDBB111 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:03:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from bca5.email-od.com (bca5.email-od.com [207.246.239.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9716B7DF54 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:03:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1511805832; x=1514397832; h=x-thread-info:date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=DOzlxr95H6IzqIv4ts30bLYpsdME0WvqgJzQrQl3N1g=; b=VUmjNXcC26ZRfAC7mC7SnA4gJZBVWHRCyos2HpdxuBN6j8VnxldgfyeHDOB2VBd1k+6uKndU2iR5zwyoBV+9N/wyHeah3BsNgWevU4t/UpoOk71/ZiFT2x1oV458Py6joNq6PS2TI1vlS72qIXFtLeQr6btK/S9dB/pBKWrsS5M= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi43ZDAwMDAwMDAzZDNjYi5mcmVlYnNkLXF1ZXN0aW9ucz1mcmVlYnNkLm9yZw== Received: from r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com [54.165.229.15]) by bca2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:03:28 -0500 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [89.127.62.20]) by r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:03:24 -0500 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.89 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1eJMoU-000Pd7-Kk for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:03:22 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:03:22 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-Id: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.6.0 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:03:48 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 Rahul raj wrote: > How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? That's a very big question. There are philosophical differences, licensing differences, design differences, packaging differences and code differences, any one of which could fill a book sized discussion (and may well do in the near future). There are also big similarities that stem from them both being largely POSIX/SUS compliant and having mostly the same software available. If you are used to linux and can read the handbook then you should have no real trouble trying FreeBSD and then you can get to know the differences in the most important way - they way they affect *you*. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:07:25 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BA1EDBB299 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:07:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from duane@nofroth.com) Received: from mail-it0-x232.google.com (mail-it0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3078F7E1EF for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:07:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from duane@nofroth.com) Received: by mail-it0-x232.google.com with SMTP id t1so4913312ite.5 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:07:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nofroth.com; s=google; h=cc:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=RTbS7rQY3Q3v0H734aIA8v+DirwKzxgiUbCwqiPBC4g=; b=FLu82XmQ2Tr+FZYar7dNN7wtKCGza0/xWOXLPWg+DXs7C12BmwN18PnCE7hL32txO1 +VyjDCSXESL90vbeomRGmDepsbsDzFrhEsrqlBmkDFRXuQGCjklWHcDn0wV5FJ8EKNUM mYmMVkj4WZDYNgVuKG8hO6+2GODSDyF3yPi/kH4VOTItSKx+jukozkBbukCC15L2Ml26 68Ul56aKlIx0hAduujhp3r67sBa3iSNGJ1BxdsS2R8J/d4i/7s+Qn/joUR9h99Bcr8F9 6VnnyooFVEOrcNgubHnM7z3TmalKaugjBpZOYLOsWzdnDGeAHeXZnBT9oOBo0sLBv2fN j12A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:cc:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=RTbS7rQY3Q3v0H734aIA8v+DirwKzxgiUbCwqiPBC4g=; b=i9wA99Pb0rRRl91sBMXQogIsX6Ra2wzOaNH9e8Z+YHysW0mcfG0lyJC4ycVxq/gN+P b3RtvjZq8Ui0E82RDfLuvbSbGpKhJk7zxm42TuTstGjxWsfk7tGPMPvaTyofuaiFfuHT YMf8dwM6g2dR9lrE04hvf2mqNu5HWQldxsXAQcn5HDZaAnS1yUvUCjNsetCx86qunzeK xqwvElV7MCf7MZir+uDuA1eQYPzqISP16OFPYUn7YBKMSxzSDIxP9XoFp4ciSZlUCZ/K sWeXxJbRfGZjGnYHr4LFqYPBNLqUR4c3ungziRfeeQPTyJ2Dmlb5vlf5nBSdyifP7DI4 i9RA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5f7UXDnOxNKfapMJ8tF6XuS2iDYyDAqvQ3RAKeYPPEDivqnagX gWaWq5DQ2ZOiaH0r1cKbtcK+gHg/Z7s= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZWyrf7A09iNrlGaT1d4ltDyVjCgoafRBEp6HhJHAoTL4kBSGRZURulemPOGtOqVac+hQHwsA== X-Received: by 10.36.88.209 with SMTP id f200mr7922196itb.66.1511806044345; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:07:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.8.8.34] ([104.145.225.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id q142sm2925021ioe.3.2017.11.27.10.07.23 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:07:23 -0800 (PST) Cc: duane@nofroth.com Subject: Re: Questions About To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> From: Duane Whitty Message-ID: <7132f11a-5cca-1058-7284-6ab49be1760b@nofroth.com> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:07:18 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:07:25 -0000 On 17-11-27 01:03 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 > Rahul raj wrote: > >> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? > > That's a very big question. There are philosophical differences, > licensing differences, design differences, packaging differences and code > differences, any one of which could fill a book sized discussion (and may > well do in the near future). > > There are also big similarities that stem from them both being > largely POSIX/SUS compliant and having mostly the same software available. > > If you are used to linux and can read the handbook then you should > have no real trouble trying FreeBSD and then you can get to know the > differences in the most important way - they way they affect *you*. > Steve, I think that's the best reply to this question I have ever read. Best Regards, Duane -- Duane Whitty duane@nofroth.com From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:16:01 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 295B8DBB893 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:16:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x22d.google.com (mail-wm0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C3BCE7E943 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:16:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hruodr@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id 9so35983819wme.4 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:16:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id:references :user-agent:mime-version; bh=V9r5t2IbPBIMYVho/m8IV4aHM0Q3pVU0h5rVPD4ac0s=; b=UZB03TvS3bALaJkfN7wNt1oXutYKjKI7iaU3KCMfhJjmp4e5rHUjrkDoMIQykvrpGX 307AGX2d2n45aqA9mjKlVQXilDr6IPXjhXwOTUoM3PTtDiEf3QOqLUcEMe0QrkVb9eEB MWzlNjyIn29p8IIVvYb9FsnRDgJOxTPB2wjgUF681Z1r9HUyCaWrYIg+xgD6SoyqZk7f yuSyEaov+mxyufYBD5JeAH7PYyuVBnzW3ZfUnHofwFVsKgAst+Qxu9gsKtHmysUaqNOG s8ugnLciMYbEyE5Bpizh6k23ltANXcL6bX0Bk9ebVf2BNW3bWflhUOg7Y48G2bYXpP/b sCMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:date:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:message-id :references:user-agent:mime-version; bh=V9r5t2IbPBIMYVho/m8IV4aHM0Q3pVU0h5rVPD4ac0s=; b=Mv95XD97OOeVOxgA/ZWIxpa9thZ5btObk3TCf6YtQjwOeDgVQM2wm0IpADisYE5unS lS+St1eTCtRcyB62cc18Jl1NUWwNaoFcBYxFs15c6VcjhvYbUMwxvCYy90dqE36qCYYe xxbt1706yBiIpeEPPgR0rq+m9ICtnKRPbcijERVaJCYUwvpQnUMRszzEeLRhuFJzAXdy 0PlXTTRPfwOQ86EbBOirCAlYv0bpfsDlZvlLIYRsoQxN8a1UOtUKz1PKwwd2ptyWcvR9 PlE71X4G8xmFHVLigpg59fSMDHyiA2/7A0lXRcOQVyH2F9hOagDHGE96aVzrlEfBE3pL 7Sxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4KA0gDt7k9GgjaGoviU2QNz9cjamktGLhLmvRlDfHOSSTM0Fyk roBov2UjRfoKEk2NAKuvUi8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbNapi4wv4z/ba1dM5WWL/PBgttQ8xS6hXM4piROynIx23NWVp5WdfII0d1XYGtWe7d8tFIXQ== X-Received: by 10.80.142.239 with SMTP id x44mr53030169edx.13.1511806559194; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:15:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from fbsd.fritz.box (mue-88-130-49-140.dsl.tropolys.de. [88.130.49.140]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h33sm6068622edd.40.2017.11.27.10.15.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 10:15:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:12:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Roderick To: Rahul raj cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.21 (BSF 202 2017-01-01) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:16:01 -0000 > How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? If you are a typical linux user, and you instal *BSD with KDE or GNOME, than there is absolutely no difference. Rodrigo. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:22:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52EA1DBBBC0 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:22:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) Received: from bca5.email-od.com (bca5.email-od.com [207.246.239.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2006B7EF9A for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:22:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from 4250.10.freebsd-questions=freebsd.org@email-od.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; d=email-od.com;i=@email-od.com;s=dkim; c=relaxed/relaxed; q=dns/txt; t=1511806944; x=1514398944; h=x-thread-info:date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SklIFuGdQ96x7v4XOWrBrVu2sRhzUQWoyRkaHiOjpW8=; b=o3NxiFlTPP6eB4TkyHPlqBcCjbs2LYZgkuCUrgkU0lFiuV/7XvZXbVD/x+pyrSz3cC2vMaygxznDzsvMeL8FoxTsDj03P+2ESvZVwMfiRuAZ/JZuPj6VONXeUk7wDPfBiiKrQ5ASJD3JBk8zbLcyBRdq3Z3RGV+jdUSS4y9vBtU= X-Thread-Info: NDI1MC4xMi43ZDAwMDAwMDA1MTIwMi5mcmVlYnNkLXF1ZXN0aW9ucz1mcmVlYnNkLm9yZw== Received: from r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com (r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com [54.165.229.15]) by bca2.email-od.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:22:22 -0500 Received: from smtp.lan.sohara.org (EMTPY [89.127.62.20]) by r3.us-east.aws.in.socketlabs.com with ESMTP(version=Tls12 cipher=Aes256 bits=256); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:22:16 -0500 Received: from [192.168.63.1] (helo=steve.lan.sohara.org) by smtp.lan.sohara.org with smtp (Exim 4.89 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1eJO2o-0000CN-Gq; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:22:14 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:22:14 +0000 From: Steve O'Hara-Smith To: Duane Whitty Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-Id: <20171127182214.f2deafe0c1d9aec6cbb8a906@sohara.org> In-Reply-To: <7132f11a-5cca-1058-7284-6ab49be1760b@nofroth.com> References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <7132f11a-5cca-1058-7284-6ab49be1760b@nofroth.com> X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.6.0 (GTK+ 2.24.31; amd64-portbld-freebsd11.0) X-Clacks-Overhead: "GNU Terry Pratchett" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:22:21 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 14:07:18 -0400 Duane Whitty wrote: > Steve, > > I think that's the best reply to this question I have ever read. Thank you. -- Steve O'Hara-Smith From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:34:24 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACC9DE235B for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:34:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from cyrus.watson.org (cyrus.watson.org [204.107.128.30]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56BFF7F812 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:34:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from fledge.watson.org (fledge.watson.org [198.74.231.63]) by cyrus.watson.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 10D9978EEE; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:34:18 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fledge.watson.org (doug@localhost.watson.org [127.0.0.1]) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vARIYH0O064474; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:34:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from localhost (doug@localhost) by fledge.watson.org (8.15.2/8.15.2/Submit) with ESMTP id vARIYHpL064471; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:34:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) X-Authentication-Warning: fledge.watson.org: doug owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:34:17 -0500 (EST) From: doug@safeport.com X-X-Sender: doug@fledge.watson.org Reply-To: doug@fledge.watson.org To: Roderick cc: Rahul raj , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (BSF 67 2015-01-07) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (fledge.watson.org [127.0.0.1]); Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:34:17 -0500 (EST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:34:24 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017, Roderick wrote: >> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? > > If you are a typical linux user, and you instal *BSD with KDE or GNOME, > than there is absolutely no difference. > > Rodrigo. > This is only true if your hardware video and wireless are supported out-of-the-box. The rest of the differences were covered nicely. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:40:09 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D5BDE24E7 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:40:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net) Received: from mail51c50.megamailservers.eu (mail158c50.megamailservers.eu [91.136.10.168]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD9FC7FA1B for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:40:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@alice-dsl.net) X-Authenticated-User: ralf.mardorf.alice-dsl.net Received: from archlinux.localdomain (x4e3216c4.dyn.telefonica.de [78.50.22.196]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail51c50.megamailservers.eu (8.14.9/8.13.1) with ESMTP id vARHtGL0029902 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:55:18 +0000 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:55:16 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-ID: <20171127185516.6c85e18c@archlinux.localdomain> In-Reply-To: References: X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0git132 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-arch-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A0B0207.5A1C5186.0072, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 X-CTCH-VOD: Unknown X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown X-CTCH-Score: 0.000 X-CTCH-Rules: X-CTCH-Flags: 0 X-CTCH-ScoreCust: 0.000 X-CSC: 0 X-CHA: v=2.2 cv=U/LiNaju c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=tkip3zz1XU/des1lYdmKrQ==:117 a=tkip3zz1XU/des1lYdmKrQ==:17 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=IGl8WA-wQzeFgFJ0KJYA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:40:09 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530, Rahul raj wrote: >How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? Are you interested in a specific domain or is just a desktop environment important, while details under the hood are less important to you? From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 18:53:19 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32251DE2D70 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:53:19 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic311-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic311-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.188.203]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 004B78069C for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:53:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pathiaki2@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: 1N4FRFwVM1mGJ1c1wqJuT_gJitLd6AgAcPxpQSpuG_Wx0phSHfRhrHgaL5e_KM8 5u5eWrepBps8zvQo6BOE_5n4UeQFMgikHltnq_Eh7A7PgmmvQjtGkXI2YwT41VAfdacTCa2Rtyip _6YBX6pb0vdQJ79mM1LFauZ6cprTzr78vkbNiRRjAYmv1oxt18OpGkRXw7Kye.mY47FVpoo1Ufmp OIMZHZoJAEwn05dl.3.JYPMMcNQrDR2ZfNeUMuUl0tGJflyUYKWp9kJlpLAVPgihTZMZHLNEhO7A G.HtJ84GqhNL9whEYYI.yCIrPz6waMLfobtyM.jeN0RsGEqJaoM9ahecXPFGcDCfSBXGggaH3Xw6 onIltM0EpfFduo5bJw5F5lcPkqb8n4ubJS31RskVZ82ALGM3b7CtnVzRDV2Nw0xeNw1kDqhDGcc8 n3bP2ZE2XfQtIYxg02.FN.LsDmUfOfdQLWvn8j3Yc7pFhQMR.bE6lIdZZW1PqXoCkkRYKPw7r3jo r4VXEJIWZvPR_B2oVIFX3KmS22J11_sL5myjmdC9_jjRfJipnKv6S6WywKw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:52:38 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp109.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 27 Nov 2017 18:32:22 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 303653.72544.bm@smtp109.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: 1N4FRFwVM1mGJ1c1wqJuT_gJitLd6AgAcPxpQSpuG_Wx0ph SHfRhrHgaL5e_KM85u5eWrepBps8zvQo6BOE_5n4UeQFMgikHltnq_Eh7A7P gmmvQjtGkXI2YwT41VAfdacTCa2Rtyip_6YBX6pb0vdQJ79mM1LFauZ6cprT zr78vkbNiRRjAYmv1oxt18OpGkRXw7Kye.mY47FVpoo1UfmpOIMZHZoJAEwn 05dl.3.JYPMMcNQrDR2ZfNeUMuUl0tGJflyUYKWp9kJlpLAVPgihTZMZHLNE hO7AG.HtJ84GqhNL9whEYYI.yCIrPz6waMLfobtyM.jeN0RsGEqJaoM9ahec XPFGcDCfSBXGggaH3Xw6onIltM0EpfFduo5bJw5F5lcPkqb8n4ubJS31RskV Z82ALGM3b7CtnVzRDV2Nw0xeNw1kDqhDGcc8n3bP2ZE2XfQtIYxg02.FN.Ls DmUfOfdQLWvn8j3Yc7pFhQMR.bE6lIdZZW1PqXoCkkRYKPw7r3jor4VXEJIW ZvPR_B2oVIFX3KmS22J11_sL5myjmdC9_jjRfJipnKv6S6WywKw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: h3Xqg6.swBC0yI913RMMwp94grO_cg-- Subject: Re: Questions About To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <7132f11a-5cca-1058-7284-6ab49be1760b@nofroth.com> From: Paul Pathiakis Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 13:32:20 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <7132f11a-5cca-1058-7284-6ab49be1760b@nofroth.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-Antivirus: AVG (VPS 171127-4, 11/27/2017), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 18:53:19 -0000 That is an awesome reply. Informative, straight up, honest and it leaves it to the reader to make an informed decision based on their need. This method is what brought me here around 2.2.1. You did the project proud with this response. Just excellent. P. On 11/27/2017 1:07 PM, Duane Whitty wrote: > > On 17-11-27 01:03 PM, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 >> Rahul raj wrote: >> >>> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? >> That's a very big question. There are philosophical differences, >> licensing differences, design differences, packaging differences and code >> differences, any one of which could fill a book sized discussion (and may >> well do in the near future). >> >> There are also big similarities that stem from them both being >> largely POSIX/SUS compliant and having mostly the same software available. >> >> If you are used to linux and can read the handbook then you should >> have no real trouble trying FreeBSD and then you can get to know the >> differences in the most important way - they way they affect *you*. >> > Steve, > > I think that's the best reply to this question I have ever read. > > Best Regards, > Duane > --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. http://www.avg.com From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 19:01:50 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72C1BDE2FE7 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:01:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from cosmo.uchicago.edu (cosmo.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.71]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5738580997 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:01:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: by cosmo.uchicago.edu (Postfix, from userid 48) id ED4B4CB8D12; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:28:32 -0600 (CST) Received: from 128.135.52.6 (SquirrelMail authenticated user valeri) by cosmo.uchicago.edu with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:28:32 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> In-Reply-To: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 12:28:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Questions About From: "Valeri Galtsev" To: "Steve O'Hara-Smith" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Reply-To: galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.8-5.el5.centos.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:01:50 -0000 On Mon, November 27, 2017 11:03 am, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 > Rahul raj wrote: > >> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? > > That's a very big question. Small question, but calling for big answer ;-) I certainly am not as knowledgeable as Steve O'Hara-Smith is. I just would add Linux refugee prospective. Over 5 years ago I started seriously looking which system to migrate Linux servers to. The reason (one of them) was: on average you have to reboot Linux every 45 days. There is either kernel update or glibc update, so you have to reboot. Compared to that FreeBSD only has updates requiring reboot about once a year. Recently there were other big turns Linux took which very many who use Linux dislike a lot (systemd, firewalld, and friends). This can be considered question of taste, but for me that just confirmed I was right when decided to flee servers to FreeBSD. My favorite CentOS Linux (aka binary replica of RedHat Enterprise) became more like MS Windows, and farther away from UNIX IMHO. Good luck making right choice. You can install two systems on the same machine, and start using both, then you will make your own choice based on your own experience. If it is server I would strongly recommend FreeBSD (or any of close relatives like NetBSD). If it is workstation, it may be simpler to install FreeBSD based TrueOS (formerly known as PC_BSD). I, however, preferred a bit more works and have FreeBSD on my workstation and on my PC laptop. Steve mentioned FreeBSD handbook. I would say, FreeBSD is the best documented system IMO. Just my $0.02 Valeri > There are philosophical differences, > licensing differences, design differences, packaging differences and code > differences, any one of which could fill a book sized discussion (and may > well do in the near future). > > There are also big similarities that stem from them both being > largely POSIX/SUS compliant and having mostly the same software available. > > If you are used to linux and can read the handbook then you should > have no real trouble trying FreeBSD and then you can get to know the > differences in the most important way - they way they affect *you*. > > -- > Steve O'Hara-Smith > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 19:59:47 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 043ABDE6375 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:59:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tijl@freebsd.org) Received: from mailrelay119.isp.belgacom.be (mailrelay119.isp.belgacom.be [195.238.20.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "relay.skynet.be", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 57AA128EF for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:59:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tijl@freebsd.org) X-Belgacom-Dynamic: yes IronPort-PHdr: =?us-ascii?q?9a23=3AYEOhEhQdd7KBs/UfTJhj0fLWqtpsv+yvbD5Q0YIu?= =?us-ascii?q?jvd0So/mwa6yZBON2/xhgRfzUJnB7Loc0qyN4vCmATRIyK3CmUhKSIZLWR4BhJ?= =?us-ascii?q?detC0bK+nBN3fGKuX3ZTcxBsVIWQwt1Xi6NU9IBJS2PAWK8TW94jEIBxrwKxd+?= =?us-ascii?q?KPjrFY7OlcS30P2594HObwlSijewZbB/IA+qoQnNq8IbnZZsJqEtxxXTv3BGYf?= =?us-ascii?q?5WxWRmJVKSmxbz+MK994N9/ipTpvws6ddOXb31cKokQ7NYCi8mM30u683wqRbD?= =?us-ascii?q?VwqP6WACXWgQjxFFHhLK7BD+Xpf2ryv6qu9w0zSUMMHqUbw5Xymp4qF2QxHqlS?= =?us-ascii?q?gHLSY0/m/XhMJukaxVoxCupxJwzIHIb4+YL+Z+c6HBcd8GWWZNQthdWipcCY28?= =?us-ascii?q?dYsPCO8BMP5GoYn8pVsOqQa1CBerBOPo0T9HmHr20rc80+Q6DArL2xAgH9MMsH?= =?us-ascii?q?TQt9j7NL0SXv6rw6TV0DvNYela2TDn6IjHax0sp+yHU7x3ccrU00YvFgXFg02e?= =?us-ascii?q?qYz/ITyayP8Cs3OG4OZ6UuKvkWEnpxltrTexwMcslo7JhpkPxlDD7yV5z4A4Ls?= =?us-ascii?q?C7Rk5jedOpE4ZcuzuEO4Z5Qs4uWXxktSQ+x7EcuJO2fi4Hw4k9yRHFcfyIaY2I?= =?us-ascii?q?7wrmVOaWPDh3mmpoeKm6hxau6UigzfD8VtWs3FZKsCVFlt7Mu2gO1xPJ7siHS/?= =?us-ascii?q?598Vm72TaIzQzT9uBEIUIwlabBN5EhxbkwloENvkTGBCD2nl72gLWRdkU+9eik?= =?us-ascii?q?8+XnYrP4qZ+AL4J5iRzyPr4wlsGwAek0KBUCUmqf9Oim1bDu/1X1QLBQgf03lq?= =?us-ascii?q?nZvoraJcMepqOhHw9V04Qj6xKkAjeoytQXg2cII0leeB2alYTpPEvOIP/gAfel?= =?us-ascii?q?n1usiCtrx+zBPrD5DJXNNGbMn6n6crZm9kFQ0RMzzc1B6JJPFrEBIfXzWknqtN?= =?us-ascii?q?HDAB85KRK7zPj8B9Vmy4wSQ2WPArWWMPCajVjdrNkuIeyBYsc3/n7YNvwp6uSk?= =?us-ascii?q?xSs4mncGf6y02Zcacja+GqI1DV+eZC/Qg9UFWUwNuREzSeXskxXWTT9RY16cRa?= =?us-ascii?q?8xzAoXToW8AtGQFciWnLWd0XLjTdVtbWdcBwXUHA=3D=3D?= X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2AlCgArbRxa/0Oz9VFdGgEBAQEBAgEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEIAQEBAYM8VhBuJwGPEo4CHQEBgXw0AYcMkT0thAOBFQKEc0QUAQEBAQEBAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAWoogjgigkYBBTocIxALGAklDyoeBhOKJgylRBGDTYp6AQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBI?= =?us-ascii?q?4M6iHCLFAWiRodyjQ2BAIIFkFaMdop+NiKBUEwwCIJiCYJJHIFoQDYBiioBAQE?= X-IPAS-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A2AlCgArbRxa/0Oz9VFdGgEBAQEBAgEBAQEIAQEBAYM8VhB?= =?us-ascii?q?uJwGPEo4CHQEBgXw0AYcMkT0thAOBFQKEc0QUAQEBAQEBAQEBAWoogjgigkYBB?= =?us-ascii?q?TocIxALGAklDyoeBhOKJgylRBGDTYp6AQEBAQEBBAEBAQEBI4M6iHCLFAWiRod?= =?us-ascii?q?yjQ2BAIIFkFaMdop+NiKBUEwwCIJiCYJJHIFoQDYBiioBAQE?= Received: from 67.179-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be (HELO kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org) ([81.245.179.67]) by relay.skynet.be with ESMTP; 27 Nov 2017 20:58:32 +0100 Received: from kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org (kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org [127.0.0.1]) by kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vARJwVln014428; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:58:32 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from tijl@FreeBSD.org) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:58:31 +0100 From: Tijl Coosemans To: "Sijmen J. Mulder" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Best way to set up a build environment in /compat/linux Message-ID: <20171127205831.730be29d@kalimero.tijl.coosemans.org> In-Reply-To: <1a02e783-b99e-fbc5-3809-91b452ab699d@sjmulder.nl> References: <1a02e783-b99e-fbc5-3809-91b452ab699d@sjmulder.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 19:59:47 -0000 On Tue, 21 Nov 2017 12:49:25 +0100 "Sijmen J. Mulder" wrote: > With Linux emulation enabled I can successfully run a statically linked > Linux binary that I built on an Ubuntu system (with musl libc). > > I'd like to install the necessary development tools (compilers, > libraries, headers, etc) in the Linux compat environment. It appears > that linux_base-c6 does not contain a package manager (yum or dnf). > What's the best way to install these tools? Did people have success > installing and using a package manager, or should I manually download > RPMs, or even compile from source? > > The wiki has this guide: https://wiki.freebsd.org/VIMAGE/Linux/CentOS55 > but it's rather old and I couldn't learn much from it. > > Alternatively I'd also be interested in cross compiling to Linux > directly from FreeBSD, if that's more practical. Still I'd need the > headers and libraries. Installing linux-c6-devtools will give you a C compiler. There are many other linux-c6-* ports that install additional libraries, but none of them install the corresponding headers. You could download -devel packages from http://mirror.centos.org/centos/6.9/ (os/ and updates/ subdirectories) and unpack them with tar. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 20:11:56 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65103DE6867 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rplace@vivaldi.net) Received: from mail.vivaldi.net (mail.vivaldi.net [82.221.99.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 25F043202 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rplace@vivaldi.net) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.vivaldi.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 24F6F3BA; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:58 +0000 (GMT) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at vivaldi.net Received: from mail.vivaldi.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.vivaldi.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LRPWaxvUfDCD; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:56 +0000 (GMT) Received: from 03c0.comcast.net (c-71-193-191-101.hsd1.or.comcast.net [71.193.191.101]) (Authenticated sender: rplace) by mail.vivaldi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 42EE337A; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:55 +0000 (GMT) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:32 +0000 From: rplace To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Ben Woods Subject: Re: why pkgs with =?utf-8?Q?vulnerabilitie?= =?utf-8?Q?s_on_quarterly_aren=E2=80=99t?= updated Message-ID: <20171127201130.GA1022@03c0.comcast.net> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Ben Woods References: <20171125162116.GA7147@03c0.comcast.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:11:56 -0000 On Sun, Nov 26, 2017 at 12:48:41AM +0000, Ben Woods wrote: > Quartlery branches are definitely supposed to receive security updates. > Sometime people forget, and if this is the case you absolutely should > remind them. Ideally this would just be the minimal update to address the > vulnerability, without bringing new features. However, patches do not > always exist, and sometime this is not easy. > > Where security issues have been addressed in the head branch, but not the > quarterly branch, I recommend: > - checking if the commit to head had a MFH request (merge from head)... > perhaps the committer is just waiting for the approval to merge the commit > to quarterly. > - if there was a bug report, check if it has been closed or if it is still > open awaiting the MFH (there is a flag in bugzilla that can be set to show > this is the status). > - if a number of days (closer to a week) has passed since it was addressed > in head and it still hasn’t been addressed in quarterly, or there was no > MFH commentary to suggest it would be addressed in quarterly, then I > suggest either commenting on the bug report that was related to the commit > to state the MFH has been forgotten (reopen the bug), or raise a new bug > report, ensuring that the person who made the commit to head gets > automatically assigned as the assignee after raising or add them to the CC > list manually. Thanks. The maintainer for firefox-esr said that the MFH was denied by the relevant authority, ports-secteam or something like that. I presume it wanted new versions of libraries or something. It became clear to me that quarterly is all right for a professional system running some services, but that latest becomes necessary for a personal machine. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 22:01:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8802DEACCF for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:01:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1324B669C3 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:01:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.195.191.233]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue103 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0ME41n-1eLQBy2Teh-00HKn8; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:18:49 +0100 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:18:49 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Rahul raj Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-Id: <20171127221849.22c87171.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:uxOTwyaKcZ3iWrf+1+qkQGVPhgZhzBCN/ELHpfamhkvg8faO4DT wYrYx0J1cIq6T3Pit/jjUdsBqt3lVwPTdUf8oFRgQ1VNG4nMOtbt1YAgBBq3mxDfAdceo0K vhVCzY0MiGJSz5NfHgumOtdJCbzlBmUwie2w68aKelCDDd+gfRAPODd3bag8aGxS8DOooUd 3Mgo+gRsQXw4vbXHDxzfQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:hnAiuXG2rgY=:RkDnxKaFiFQoOFWumE0bjl V7dwNauiGdDC0bQEgzSjzMNrBoVmKPFpU46o5XitSEjIG6JrnYeSFRRxiV2dzTlJD4kcvUnrD yWtdwaWBeEO8OfpRFFcSt/o6TSLbZAB5H29SQSSNzQ5pdM3eOZJOo0P23fPlMWWTiPJrUR5QQ SYx6wAmUl1T4vCWaLzz1rXu/jN8gR9EZTrtSQiRpqgvvp6wPACit4oq8k0R6sY7vLu65u4I/e zvnpHjUDyDX/0zEeObHc7GbrW4VSwaV4ILK+CBPM34bS4PlHPeM3j5AiGuDFJF5sQ5XiUHHco 2o2OSXaK8f45AmEhqzYofVX78+/FDT9FimGHoVReEbg6rhDrwVon5CzmQLW4kf01M1EBgPE4H O+9FV6JPe34RflJX8abATq14CNX8YyGzpLUfQq+6g419aMS7n6RtSCPwr2vGcBhU9QzjZBPTh dFRPA1Bi4hmHowCaKAz2q2plSJ9+MfH5zz243+57Go3Zsk5vkfjescdpQv3zLwVyT2agK8sgU 05jjVLdoRKgDgW4W90uq43ZdAhH6VP+33RzZtzfTae6icfMXS4DXdBV9/8ku/uxQ+A98i0c+J 9mkDFE7O9I3JpqtMt0XLmj0cVCNZXw5yXA/3qJbXMq+fwNOkcTtO4DwHKARZaCKjpMXscwn/D PuR6dGsbZp5dZg7gF+oaeGbPPStJ95YACcZoW24XYcAjCFmO/HCFLRg3HdHov3rjJ7i+PEueY BmiJPH5v7twYyQEkOvlqJCxtpfTzjwlrJmTr4GHVh7DizC/3YZr6NYY7aWI= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:01:10 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530, Rahul raj wrote: > I've a Questions ? > How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? Very. :-) An initial overview is provided in the FreeBSD documentation: https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/explaining-bsd/comparing-bsd-and-linux.html Note that the BSDs (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.) differ just as the many Linux distributions do differ, except those share (almost) the same kernel. For further details, try a Google search with keywords such as "BSD Linux differences". This will result in many articles explaining this topic. Such resources could include, but are not limited to, the following articles: https://www.howtogeek.com/190773/htg-explains-whats-the-difference-between-linux-and-bsd/ https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/a-comparative-introduction-to-freebsd-for-linux-users However, "different" can have different meanings. Is it about system architecture? About licensing? About tools included? About operations in general? About hardware compatibility? With specific search keywords added, you can easily find the answers to which differences actually matter _to you_. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 22:37:06 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98170DEBA50 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:37:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from cdptpa-cmomta03.email.rr.com (cdptpa-outbound-snat.email.rr.com [107.14.166.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "Client", Issuer "CA" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 655EE68148 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:37:05 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from baho-utot@columbus.rr.com) Received: from raspberrypi.bildanet.com ([65.186.81.207]) by cmsmtp with ESMTP id JS2TexiBjuXOAJS2WetVtk; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:38:12 +0000 Received: from [192.168.1.143] (helo=desktop.example.com) by raspberrypi.bildanet.com with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1eJS1H-0002hW-QW for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:36:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Questions About To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> From: Baho Utot Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:36:55 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-CMAE-Envelope: MS4wfLMn199aYUUjYu4FIbkN+TMbgai9yg5zKs47psRlYkJIC0wuxReM2l+rycAooe+ZLxg7KgaJ786IgbgpzFPDKhtX/F08rmM2E7vq6mX6dUUfMhp2jPrT AtAHbr8Rpgxt0FHy2KVzzBEdq+B6STydbi/TVg20OqjhmpdzyUuwJWJ5B0DV0o8bsqK7+zAJKgzy79hrELzOo/aYv/eWv83vEek= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:37:06 -0000 On 11/27/17 13:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > > On Mon, November 27, 2017 11:03 am, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >> On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 >> Rahul raj wrote: >> >>> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? >> >> That's a very big question. > > Small question, but calling for big answer ;-) I certainly am not as > knowledgeable as Steve O'Hara-Smith is. I just would add Linux refugee > prospective. > > Over 5 years ago I started seriously looking which system to migrate Linux > servers to. The reason (one of them) was: on average you have to reboot > Linux every 45 days. There is either kernel update or glibc update, so you > have to reboot. Compared to that FreeBSD only has updates requiring reboot > about once a year. Recently there were other big turns Linux took which > very many who use Linux dislike a lot (systemd, firewalld, and friends). > This can be considered question of taste, but for me that just confirmed I > was right when decided to flee servers to FreeBSD. My favorite CentOS > Linux (aka binary replica of RedHat Enterprise) became more like MS > Windows, and farther away from UNIX IMHO. > > Good luck making right choice. You can install two systems on the same > machine, and start using both, then you will make your own choice based on > your own experience. If it is server I would strongly recommend FreeBSD > (or any of close relatives like NetBSD). If it is workstation, it may be > simpler to install FreeBSD based TrueOS (formerly known as PC_BSD). I, > however, preferred a bit more works and have FreeBSD on my workstation and > on my PC laptop. > > Steve mentioned FreeBSD handbook. I would say, FreeBSD is the best > documented system IMO. > > Just my $0.02 > > Valeri > Actually Arch Linux is the best documented system. FreeBSD has nothing that is even close to the docs on Arch Linux site. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Installation_guide https://bbs.archlinux.org/ https://wiki.archlinux.org/ https://security.archlinux.org/ https://bugs.archlinux.org/ https://aur.archlinux.org/ And this doesn't even account for all the mail list not the IRC channels And they are very helpful From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Nov 27 23:31:17 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7DE72DECB3A for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: from mail-it0-x230.google.com (mail-it0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4696F69D3C for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:31:17 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kurt.buff@gmail.com) Received: by mail-it0-x230.google.com with SMTP id x28so8022569ita.0 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:31:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=x+NQSE+hGPqxih31oE4ZcXSxLnYroRHR33YFB2SMtl8=; b=jLf/3jNRw6zfDNYpXkrnV/rAeQJQZy5kDZDCTPkLWPdzcsTSIC3Jy8ZdufyVP99JPG 3hS9on3/Zi+E4sHdFQiHh96zIpqjQJNzAyqfj4BGbHAc4cBWfmLq9wlGBQMXfSr4Xok8 p3FeEqQOLNrkUs/sCokGOCwx67lk4MU2wHvUrQr1S+O6FrIOsYcfKvDpDA4sUUFaFVuA n+OWjd0AyCOgYHU1sRpykltuJmzh6jRt84YgVkgjgXz8VHmSsFZHj/1LWNJMFcqI3iy2 ZmJPsiXT8nbfH2xvddua1yR/M5FATNz3YUdJfXpA1XQUDi7ENtOHIxDXFcoKFfdHMCKS Darw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=x+NQSE+hGPqxih31oE4ZcXSxLnYroRHR33YFB2SMtl8=; b=o46hBEHs5a9yB57VNNKHAlSgKHp/28BzPGtVrVjl+ob22sit0FPuCEhwLAvr0ktep/ r9irFM6CFWm9/5IS90dGLGwr9uuvV16dhrmgM30rXa/Xe5OYS2Dk493uECSDG6JAEQUa KtMeNbpnUMVszmMruW2ZgPcRcm27g0h5HakL0Mb3ixjHdg8lCmg3MaQ3z8+FtGKKOnsn SUIWSdYT83ZWXUGooe7YkT83ws0ZXTgNU/crnZ1NHAuU+iKyyxWsVHXD8+8jRLL1xp+j Oa/T47ya2mJB4XW6IJ9Bh3Z1qR90cjJBES70VK2lr0peD6I6hpaLJLs6X5ZRHwUuus0A RUkg== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX7YzknGZkRXkwsnba3ZMZaOK18+vB1Qub7FE5TF0ltJ91N6uqls uBMk+QZl3j07RwlftShHn6ELZNTNDeIMCvxYwB3BWw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMYCykXI74b/7RGvFd+lmqmE0sPuAJ/OHvjF/UvoSl2PpfrzAxTQtzaMyNv71vHik6ryZilBKgJB7ra3lYuSHFo= X-Received: by 10.36.170.69 with SMTP id y5mr112070iti.13.1511825476111; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:31:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.79.9.199 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:31:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Kurt Buff Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 15:31:15 -0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Questions About To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 23:31:17 -0000 On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:34 AM, Rahul raj wrote: > How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? Others (particularly Steve O'Hara-Smith and Polytropon) have given very good answers, and they might be sufficient. However, here's a link to a fairly old screed on the subject which is a bit more philosophical, and which I like quite a bit: https://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01 HTH, Kurt From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 01:47:14 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C00EADF1730 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 01:47:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rahulrny03@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wm0-x243.google.com (mail-wm0-x243.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::243]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48E336F66F for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 01:47:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rahulrny03@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wm0-x243.google.com with SMTP id 9so37702966wme.4 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:47:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sF27Mv+S9yRF6i3x7ZActU1eEfXjtKTNjtGY8zw/h7o=; b=QN3jj3OgEkUMkA6yF0uenXCL/tkQwQ0yoe2eOw69dOpKK9Jv2cfC4bA8B50Uje3Th2 zRtPxIHxjj1XudcD8cFs0ls34BLZnfOcHR1v81NrTNzFuRLQhv+XGEoTbmylttnHVic3 eXE1yFfqkmEAbe/Wh30bqN8a70ryBztavOupsxatFMSdIAJNUK1sVRmNH+w5AE9QVB0A zJtr1uOgILiAzgHXozdV4jfgrXq7A/ZmSJ1E/JUjjafD0OEmJwBaK+GVa2tuGzxskKmJ nCPbtuQ0XpUB5xJETIseYW7cF9+Y3fzkVMQDFVOJKTQVonGRwI1EO/MIKDWIlYikXK3e Ia5g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sF27Mv+S9yRF6i3x7ZActU1eEfXjtKTNjtGY8zw/h7o=; b=W2RhLDUSSVkxjlDyuBHDjRsf+xeQ6uX74JO+wrvLH4TNtRf0xKDEngyz78cKsfjUs2 6vdUz5Q+39oWwFvAIKvpdufLFNXMGXKQOP8NpnWtJYLkNftlfoiERyf2ABIplNVaSK7O 68Pxu2q72fpKA83vQa9H+oLp2J3x+53UjMK7XmCG7tGNJkPBDmZO8heTxZJMTQgV+Dv+ xZd7K1U3aQkkLM7OnxSOS4CsbRRppEC/naVULA8xLpLlyOY+PEgNpuDo0xuAVfwOOIjF QXjayuUnQMjWkJ8vf2MI8Uobmjotfi07qh7/I/HBk52hV4zt3O965sqjTDb5211sF7Qe GREw== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4oGbEY72Q7TZdJ3Y24B1/X9761W3xqvTICl0/Tj8PTHHD1kl9D x+DOhrDiEh7ol+oPUXfUXNNjvX1m8QwbS6t7AgW7rg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZir7MTnx2JC+kmOvDqQ7em/yCgm543vyiDMuVuTP+oWkxWoGFniqPbkDQ+OVAB3oX14VXPBx8Ots70fEcOy4s= X-Received: by 10.28.150.20 with SMTP id y20mr3696053wmd.118.1511833632730; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:47:12 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.28.45.202 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:47:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.28.45.202 with HTTP; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:47:11 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171127221849.22c87171.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20171127221849.22c87171.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Rahul raj Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 07:17:11 +0530 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Questions About To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 01:47:14 -0000 Thanks a lot. On Nov 28, 2017 02:48, "Polytropon" wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530, Rahul raj wrote: > > I've a Questions ? > > How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? > > Very. :-) > > An initial overview is provided in the FreeBSD documentation: > > https://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/ > explaining-bsd/comparing-bsd-and-linux.html > > Note that the BSDs (FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, etc.) differ > just as the many Linux distributions do differ, except those > share (almost) the same kernel. > > For further details, try a Google search with keywords > such as "BSD Linux differences". This will result in many > articles explaining this topic. > > Such resources could include, but are not limited to, the > following articles: > > https://www.howtogeek.com/190773/htg-explains-whats-the- > difference-between-linux-and-bsd/ > > https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tutorials/a- > comparative-introduction-to-freebsd-for-linux-users > > However, "different" can have different meanings. Is it > about system architecture? About licensing? About tools > included? About operations in general? About hardware > compatibility? With specific search keywords added, you > can easily find the answers to which differences actually > matter _to you_. > > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 04:59:44 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A6CDF9116 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:59:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20B8975D49 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:59:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from segfault-nmh-helo.tristatelogic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F313ACDA for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:50:46 -0800 (PST) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:50:46 -0800 Message-ID: <37725.1511844646@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:59:44 -0000 Sorry. Sort of a long story, just to get to the point... One particular disk drive of mine seems to be acting up in some pretty weird ways. I think it may be starting to fail. The whole thing contains only one partition, formatted for NTFS, and when I recently tried to just cat a file that is already on there to /dev/null it took over 21 minutes to complete. (The file is only around 6GB.) This test was done on Linux/Ubuntu. Given the amount of time the file read took, something seems to be VERY wrong with this harddrive. For the life of me, I can't figure out where Ubuntu stores low-level disk error messages. I think they should appear in /var/log/kern.log, but don't see any disk errors in there. (Sigh.) So anyway, I would prefer to use FreeBSD to try to get to the bottom of this problem with this specific harddrive anyway, because I know FreeBSD rather better than Ubuntu, and I also trust it more. I just now installed 11.1-RELEASE on a USB stick and booted from that into the "Live" mode, and I was hoping to use that to try my test(s) again on the (possibly failing) harddrive, but it seems like maybe in Live mode there is no way to mount NTFS filesystems. Bummer. :-( Is that actually true? Is there an easy/fast way around it? P.S. Should I maybe file a PR, suggesting the enhancement that the "ntfs-3g" tool be included in the Live mode image? (It really does seems a pity if it ain't in there.) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 05:03:27 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91DB4DF9390 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:03:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic304-21.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29DF3760B1 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:03:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: blkJqIIVM1nf1IMiCyL2RsmzD34vLcc3ml4ISCKe5pO.IZ.oO3.fpXRLRvUq61n qT0bje1567yo9Hlj0HvgX9IbXekdFAW9VUxrb4y2lfGqEttmwDiPVZnsAK472nqUaeY1MjDlkkdb DfwRoVdZYVAKLz3Zd9FQNuQeX5Vdgt0FLFcGRxX7crtsQ8p7FdYGOtEjS825SrtEYgzdTaXCQdfZ oaSo7V6StZBQv4dDf1LqTFfpvAuxD7NI.v1OokgF7LiH_66tl0Norcwu5QhWC2L99AYVnhlpAk4s IPzp1dphGUvh8i8vc032I1fI.6p3SXsNhbRhp28ozQnarZq.CusUR_.sWPx0IDv_9jmYJlTlHmfn 0d7g4LCHWa2roR9bi9kbYS8wV89NFwz6Y3TLp.G3I4DrSebS7pCzRpR8tGgw9ccfntAiD37DQheX k84PP2.v0m5NZ5ya.NN.PqPIgu9katbos2j0Udgsw4GQyBnpBO4MBhq_OWXmupReSn8SlUMYC_OV TE1X1P.XTMbSd.M3w9UpHfy4sXhKRkA1YwvuPUoz0YWrErHW5BrAn3R_xim99gGMFCaPtN0ynIbo AW2U- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic304.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:03:19 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp107.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2017 05:03:17 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 419127.21635.bm@smtp107.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: blkJqIIVM1nf1IMiCyL2RsmzD34vLcc3ml4ISCKe5pO.IZ. oO3.fpXRLRvUq61nqT0bje1567yo9Hlj0HvgX9IbXekdFAW9VUxrb4y2lfGq EttmwDiPVZnsAK472nqUaeY1MjDlkkdbDfwRoVdZYVAKLz3Zd9FQNuQeX5Vd gt0FLFcGRxX7crtsQ8p7FdYGOtEjS825SrtEYgzdTaXCQdfZoaSo7V6StZBQ v4dDf1LqTFfpvAuxD7NI.v1OokgF7LiH_66tl0Norcwu5QhWC2L99AYVnhlp Ak4sIPzp1dphGUvh8i8vc032I1fI.6p3SXsNhbRhp28ozQnarZq.CusUR_.s WPx0IDv_9jmYJlTlHmfn0d7g4LCHWa2roR9bi9kbYS8wV89NFwz6Y3TLp.G3 I4DrSebS7pCzRpR8tGgw9ccfntAiD37DQheXk84PP2.v0m5NZ5ya.NN.PqPI gu9katbos2j0Udgsw4GQyBnpBO4MBhq_OWXmupReSn8SlUMYC_OVTE1X1P.X TMbSd.M3w9UpHfy4sXhKRkA1YwvuPUoz0YWrErHW5BrAn3R_xim99gGMFCaP tN0ynIboAW2U- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 06:03:18 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-ID: <20171128060318.7e1df700@archlinux.localdomain> In-Reply-To: References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0git132 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-arch-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:03:27 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:36:55 -0500, Baho Utot wrote: >On 11/27/17 13:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: >Actually Arch Linux is the best documented system. A good example that already Linux distros differ a lot. I'm an Arch Linux user. One big difference between FreeBSD and all Linux distros might be the file system. However, the Arch Linux policy differs a lot to other major Linux distros. >> Over 5 years ago I started seriously looking which system to migrate >> Linux servers to. The reason (one of them) was: on average you have >> to reboot Linux every 45 days. There is either kernel update or >> glibc update, so you have to reboot. Compared to that FreeBSD only >> has updates requiring reboot about once a year. Recently there were >> other big turns Linux took which very many who use Linux dislike a >> lot (systemd, firewalld, and friends). A kernel update not necessarily requires a reboot, let alone that there are different upgrade strategies. Some Linux distros stay very long with the same software releases and only provide security updates and fixes of serious bugs, other distros, especially a rolling release such as Arch Linux, even when using a long term support kernel, are close to upstream and usually provide the latest stable releases of software. Partial upgrades are nearly impossible, they are frowned upon. One big differences between Arch Linux and FreeBSD is that FreeBSD stays longer with the same software releases, than Arch Linux does. As for all differences between operating systems, neither approach is better than the other, resp. it is important related to the user's needs. But there are distros, e.g. one very known, that isn't for free as in beer, that follow a contrary policy to the rolling release model. Something that FreeBSD and all Linux distros have in common is, that hardware support is less good than for Microsoft and Apple operating systems. I guess it's easier to provide an overview about the differences between BSD and Linux, when limiting it to a specific domain. A contrasting juxtaposition unlikely makes it easy to decide, if BSD or Linux is the better choice for a specific domain, but at least the list of comparison would be shorter and experts for specific domains could provide information based on experiences. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 05:24:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B6D1DF9A54 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:24:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic309-26.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic309-26.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.179.84]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9C3C67688F for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:24:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: FPTqwd8VM1nFfQk0KJqz7WrJMtzJcgguDQCTB5z2OHs2QPdYyUheNDfPq.BzVFr eQ_3C.6TFopRXIwWs5c9r9uiIeFEWatsGJJsXPT2eINiHWalvPeLF1T28p3Gq1OgZ37flhjDl6pv 6DoNruy4QRQBt_aunvEgT1R9yu0MKe1wj.t381WT6uGO0ugNw4xNvCKYC6TSJzceCfIuXAP3zcD7 bdmqQlY3v.Vnk11BYkApk8l6SuNYWVWEwgUmez4h5Nx1SWEx22j_CBsox076fk0xPI6uRFfk6coS y5EAazySr7rtiMrsfFMyjVmy4TH6rhC27DEL6xgV1KsAufGE8Y_w79QuLBwmt2fsjAO9.KRTdcFS tEYvHWm.PswYUeuLHIEWunN_1zJ8Mf2dlrvUqzGEFC0IAny397xx6SCRsPFkEC1YDdDAkpJ1j617 krxqOFplkSkfmjVeu8DN5NGG0PtJSsuJVedo0fjSNZwtz89pUF1QCBlcoF9yR5876Ba5NBYfjTTL 64UsEo4A_qFkuxnpUtqKkJYwd94jqCUVaasmaPTDVQCKAPYC0SuUtovABahBRxT_yWwuYUx96EQ. DFec- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:24:46 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp121.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Nov 2017 05:24:42 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 351787.4236.bm@smtp121.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: FPTqwd8VM1nFfQk0KJqz7WrJMtzJcgguDQCTB5z2OHs2QPd YyUheNDfPq.BzVFreQ_3C.6TFopRXIwWs5c9r9uiIeFEWatsGJJsXPT2eINi HWalvPeLF1T28p3Gq1OgZ37flhjDl6pv6DoNruy4QRQBt_aunvEgT1R9yu0M Ke1wj.t381WT6uGO0ugNw4xNvCKYC6TSJzceCfIuXAP3zcD7bdmqQlY3v.Vn k11BYkApk8l6SuNYWVWEwgUmez4h5Nx1SWEx22j_CBsox076fk0xPI6uRFfk 6coSy5EAazySr7rtiMrsfFMyjVmy4TH6rhC27DEL6xgV1KsAufGE8Y_w79Qu LBwmt2fsjAO9.KRTdcFStEYvHWm.PswYUeuLHIEWunN_1zJ8Mf2dlrvUqzGE FC0IAny397xx6SCRsPFkEC1YDdDAkpJ1j617krxqOFplkSkfmjVeu8DN5NGG 0PtJSsuJVedo0fjSNZwtz89pUF1QCBlcoF9yR5876Ba5NBYfjTTL64UsEo4A _qFkuxnpUtqKkJYwd94jqCUVaasmaPTDVQCKAPYC0SuUtovABahBRxT_yWwu YUx96EQ.DFec- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 06:24:43 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Questions About Message-ID: <20171128062443.4b020c44@archlinux.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0git132 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-arch-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 05:24:55 -0000 On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:03:22 +0000, Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 22:04:16 +0530 Rahul raj wrote: > >> How Different Bsd operating system from Linux ? > > That's a very big question. There are philosophical > differences Nobody mentioned Beastie, Puffy and Tux. Tux is the Linux mascot, it isn't associated with a specific Linux distribution. As Beastie and Puffy for different BSDs, Linux distributions could have their individual mascots, too, but in the end all distros follow the penguin. SICR From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 08:54:43 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A00ADDFE28F for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:54:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 728EE7C1F7 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:54:42 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAS8sYj8018440 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 03:54:35 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 03:54:34 -0500 (EST) From: DTD To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: shutdown -r with UEFI boot Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 03:54:35 -0500 (EST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 08:54:43 -0000 I have installed rEFInd booting Win-10 and FreeBSD 11.1. Booting works fine, I have xfce and wireless working. 'shutdown -r' and ctrl-alt-del go through the shutdown process and (I think) the system halts. I think this is whats happening from the console output and trying to follow the code. It seems to me that shutdown goes through the process sending a shutdown to init. init finally invokes the EFI boot. If that is correct, then in my install init is going to the wrong partition. After blanking the screen the system halts. A click on the power button completes shutdown. Another click the boots. 'shutdown -p' works. If anyone has this working I would like to compare setups. I am not using zfs, but I do not see how that matters. Thanks for any help. _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 09:09:07 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55067DFEA70 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:09:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 259B47CB66 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:09:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id vAS995rL018798 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:09:05 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:09:05 -0500 (EST) From: DTD To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: shutdown -r with UEFI boot In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Tue, 28 Nov 2017 04:09:05 -0500 (EST) X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 09:09:07 -0000 On Tue, 28 Nov 2017, DTD wrote: > I have installed rEFInd booting Win-10 and FreeBSD 11.1. Booting works fine, > I have xfce and wireless working. 'shutdown -r' and ctrl-alt-del go through > the shutdown process and (I think) the system halts. I think this is whats > happening from the console output and trying to follow the code. It seems to > me that shutdown goes through the process sending a shutdown to init. init > finally invokes the EFI boot. If that is correct, then in my install init is > going to the wrong partition. After blanking the screen the system halts. A > click on the power button completes shutdown. Another click the boots. > 'shutdown -p' works. > > If anyone has this working I would like to compare setups. I am not using > zfs, but I do not see how that matters. Thanks for any help. Right after sending this I decided to boot to windows and go through the trouble shooting restart following the path up to but not selecting change UEFI setting. After that it all works. All I can surmise is that following this path changed some setting in the firmware. _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277 From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue Nov 28 18:39:53 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8FFE1DEAE84 for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:39:53 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E85072D0D for ; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:39:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.195.191.233]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue002 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0MPdcf-1eF5xS420f-004nXy; Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:39:48 +0100 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:39:47 +0100 From: Polytropon To: Ralf Mardorf Cc: Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Questions About Message-Id: <20171128193947.51d0ab48.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20171128060318.7e1df700@archlinux.localdomain> References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <20171128060318.7e1df700@archlinux.localdomain> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:BJl49mJ8RQP2iMZT7i+YWGHnmcWs/gRWOZ1rBON1IrwdBi3nYLE 4TgI5T5UrSR6nSAeDYEGsqT+WgaRwSUpCI8fyuPfiW48Z3pCdHDxX6gkYXl3cEz+Jxe+Ui2 0TceaJcwnxTfPGP7NWiW0IjJerfiaEWewmYPIwwt4efaJUnQRfoRetq8jDreFOA2cIbEFPG 2dtr6YF2BF+EKwa0pt4xg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:3OAaaP2YauI=:46jqGaWgX19QLN0/uk4SRK AC4atjNAgjQNTXTdEqErsRuQSreWezmI1cyHEeaUrqbHmjUOd51Tu7S0Z/rbBCbKL2xUx458Y Drm2K0hULX2kKqh7aD/jcuLHfiqKuLYokY83wHoTwN4QS4gEBbxpuluEEa58QQo1okm95BVAg FYqLKPwwKJtGBK4p5MbU1IIsnPxMF94sa4MNP7RpkKmbPlwZkA3TGHqqLRM/YIZeohKEVqqST 6N90SrZazQpBqaeHgX1l5mn5ov4MOhG/kLmsi+z7m+vhEFcfCGu3yrfHxUPUHON0yYcqtV2vn vk/FpIm6Y+X+ki9IW0ooZZZp6wJfOINoJB0wGpOqdSBeQEIkKAZIC8lkxx87vrEpKhtIgz/qt fC9/WJ98wQtiFDnieu/o5G34/J4+BvlJNQgWRnnu7HAcGrdIcFvH9K0HnEQDSN+z05eVF7DQ8 wpa2fjPxGEJ+h/FlDucQgyJyQWJDUZLGGi0zGuwhVjgsFiIR7xAwhx/ALn1NbJMmoKCmhCFwf IDz9kN5qVR8NpkS77f5qraDgumghOvdxHAns65YPFa/vAyBShTT3cY1ugpi6fRJm24FqlVtAP D0pShHWveSLQbl0G3mVYOxn7j//0SZGFerB1t5y6jgb7xZTm7gZILfxfc3GSHmEm5gzTQtPSf AToxyl8wTFLnEvlMr/nc5lpXdyiEpVwxIe3j2xG8cZNtNGYwXtt3BSvxh0raLRuGT0PEBqJAn CopLvoJPsuuIhtzThqg1DaGrfra9ZaeJ1btQnNqXpJokr1xZLHpcQyjApDc= X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 18:39:53 -0000 On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 06:03:18 +0100, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2017 17:36:55 -0500, Baho Utot wrote: > >On 11/27/17 13:28, Valeri Galtsev wrote: > >Actually Arch Linux is the best documented system. > > A good example that already Linux distros differ a lot. I'm an Arch > Linux user. One big difference between FreeBSD and all Linux distros > might be the file system. However, the Arch Linux policy differs a lot > to other major Linux distros. That is correct. While the file system is consistent within a BSD (see "man hier"), Linux distributions differ from each other, and sometimes change the overall layout. There is an attempt of standardizing the hierarchy across distributions, but it's not in place for _all_ existing distributions. > Something that FreeBSD and all Linux distros have in common is, that > hardware support is less good than for Microsoft and Apple operating > systems. This is no longer true. Linux is the operating system that supports most of the existing hardware. With "existing", I not just refering to what you can buy today, but also to what you bought yesterday, or 5 years ago. On current "Windows", drivers often don't exist for older hardware, so while being 100 % functional, they cannot be used anymore. Many of those devices can still live a good life under Linux, simply because there is a driver for them which still works. Another problem is that "modern drivers" (for current hardware) are often combined with spyware, and due to bloat, they generally slow down the system. Apple, on the other hand, has a narrow set of supported hardware, but that support is often quite good because the developers _know_ what hardware they need to support. So from the pure "amount of devices", Linux usually wins. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 05:35:01 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88353DF8E28 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:35:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic302-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic302-19.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [87.248.110.82]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1BFBA65D53 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:35:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: LhUA.a8VM1lH7sKLtuYHVMItJZO7qz5Zdzv84oGI7IdezafvHOmY5p8kImhMnZ_ 3HfrBPZtiD3mR_lfFpa_g.9687rCw7Nz70O06fTJ5tirbQ4qc5u97YKMatRi_WFzax6Ztds6SaQM AyYCT0RjN288l66gYjSpDB5ZPi456Nct_pF6ZOkZ3IxP7P7fOOasEwM9TjSPIz5oF2bDlvAd0w.Y 5UNQ4mp1FC9siKz94qBf3YpBXk69j7n5vp6EqfJmWTTV0wVTlGPPOU6KeMGr.lSmk1wp6RXMfba8 YaNH_HFt3M.wPJkvaBKmUJHdK6r8McU7WrkOf_cP821tBCGQvpgy1sBg6_hGtM2H2pa9zGzhWVz3 3ed4ZwXUyFaXkb085op14P4T08rh7GqBjPeBNgfNyvlLcLOgTq5DWqZxw8Pzr7Y5FB9DPigs2dtQ .kJVcBG6BZScqpTw1HeLM2OE2BThi3cxvAW7xVqKPPjfenQ5.g1V.R9LmB7TYEc4N8ReZIC3MU.D pF7X6boWhWivF8Y9hoyty2egVuDW72a3pgUGbImFOIywbxiEc_sSLuT8zdaUIZ2DahDKh0DX_WtJ 5UTw4Nw-- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic302.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:34:53 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp104.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 29 Nov 2017 05:34:50 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 588623.61471.bm@smtp104.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: LhUA.a8VM1lH7sKLtuYHVMItJZO7qz5Zdzv84oGI7Idezaf vHOmY5p8kImhMnZ_3HfrBPZtiD3mR_lfFpa_g.9687rCw7Nz70O06fTJ5tir bQ4qc5u97YKMatRi_WFzax6Ztds6SaQMAyYCT0RjN288l66gYjSpDB5ZPi45 6Nct_pF6ZOkZ3IxP7P7fOOasEwM9TjSPIz5oF2bDlvAd0w.Y5UNQ4mp1FC9s iKz94qBf3YpBXk69j7n5vp6EqfJmWTTV0wVTlGPPOU6KeMGr.lSmk1wp6RXM fba8YaNH_HFt3M.wPJkvaBKmUJHdK6r8McU7WrkOf_cP821tBCGQvpgy1sBg 6_hGtM2H2pa9zGzhWVz33ed4ZwXUyFaXkb085op14P4T08rh7GqBjPeBNgfN yvlLcLOgTq5DWqZxw8Pzr7Y5FB9DPigs2dtQ.kJVcBG6BZScqpTw1HeLM2OE 2BThi3cxvAW7xVqKPPjfenQ5.g1V.R9LmB7TYEc4N8ReZIC3MU.DpF7X6boW hWivF8Y9hoyty2egVuDW72a3pgUGbImFOIywbxiEc_sSLuT8zdaUIZ2DahDK h0DX_WtJ5UTw4Nw-- X-Yahoo-SMTP: BeMCPs2swBABTJ3kAeEiC_hE0mz8jRexLddJfD8pI2j32fOacjBmXg-- Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 06:34:52 +0100 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Polytropon Subject: Re: Questions About Message-ID: <20171129063452.4c40615b@archlinux.localdomain> In-Reply-To: <20171128193947.51d0ab48.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <20171127170322.7aaca527bebc2ec32ec95c58@sohara.org> <25393.128.135.52.6.1511807312.squirrel@cosmo.uchicago.edu> <20171128060318.7e1df700@archlinux.localdomain> <20171128193947.51d0ab48.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.15.0git132 (GTK+ 2.24.31; x86_64-arch-linux-gnu) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 05:35:01 -0000 On Tue, 28 Nov 2017 19:39:47 +0100, Polytropon wrote: >So from the pure "amount of devices", Linux usually wins. :-) Not for my domain. My iPad, as well as my Linux audio workstation provide the class compliant USB audio driver to use my prosumer audio devices, but they don't provide the software for the audio device's hardware mixer. My Linux audio workstation doesn't provide the latest version of the mixer for my professional audio PCIe card, let alone that not all channels of the card are usable and that latency via the PCIe slot for this professional audio card is less good, as for the prosumer USB audio interface. The professional card is a http://www.rme-audio.de/en/products/hdspe_aio.php and the prosumer audio device is a https://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-18i20 . Since I don't own other Apple gear and Windows only is installed as a guest to a virtual machine, to run iTunes, to store my iPad purchases and to share files with my Linux audio workstation, I indeed don't have up to date experiences with other Apple operating systems and Windows, but I know what's missing for my audio devices and I knmow that I need to run a virtual machine with a Windows guest to store the iPad's purchases and to share audio and MIDI files between Linux and the iPad. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 21:09:28 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D20D4DBBCE3 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:09:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eancaer@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x230.google.com (mail-lf0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5984B64B64 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:09:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eancaer@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x230.google.com with SMTP id f18so5475115lfg.8 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:09:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jii7+ayCWQQ9sbu+LBhfRVOfm99CUXjUf3yAROwGoug=; b=Y3Q4ecssggK74q+xMFKj69Tc2fD0++ySweD5frbwq6IsprdNokMFS4m261aaQg96uL raNFnRpaed0hwyVbhRUpyZXQvxmXqTel3p8BQ3bCEZMJWnOBMZNmsq7/uAWHKoAoyzMu RrZelmi7bQQ/pvCzGchiiB7Z2mmxB9mMTVfkqq+XOkcu+9tdHwK1QG3OxxQ73TKrKXfz EZALKJNfaLvSvq6jiVLBcvrF2AyzpLmCrRuF/Xppny/t74BioMPO38EkL0zY6G64oPMt COS/PP7w7HQUFc2cz1P1fh3sEkKTwLf0Mg3H+1JY35CraIR9s7yWpfGvTneYdOsXZUh/ q4OA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jii7+ayCWQQ9sbu+LBhfRVOfm99CUXjUf3yAROwGoug=; b=gRsm6NVj5TuJowJ6Usk2iuaYuTbQao9gYx6TCWpC3AUekfz7Kd0GuJGg7uQaGY8I35 6hUJFG2LQndXSyfwI//Gmw34r4iGYZ5BfWOI0fOXbdh6eVki4KlQzZk9tTNxoR7v4975 YCBsu0XxaewHQDo6WuzFRo3BO+R3NNm3ns1YVLf29KdDJQQVpOP9vSHvNgeslMcCN84b rqAMCly0/xfCO5SufQoZW4IITTbAgUtwsx48lNYaV2FsUaLb/lx3iwiEGTY426uw9PBQ IDGiCElH5TjMPbJkznInLZR3OFPFRhXKJp3HKVhMQHx7/l805IUQeG8MVUjCt4tHWMPf wbQQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX6+Xcfe4RcGCOmvqu4+znFm3hmd4JjdSbOZnn160h09y3K8XOSM icW7nDcf+GkeVPv3gcdj4S9v8j06OjuXuw0aBqqAFWqV X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbFmkB8IE5G0uESVu4/H3WovSyS4ydJY9cED+5xaVehtnpydXKLguPs7SVErb/fuR61pC96nFlg8Gjz6ER8hIw= X-Received: by 10.46.2.204 with SMTP id y73mr2124643lje.183.1511989764796; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:09:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.101.71 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:09:24 -0800 (PST) From: Edwin Ancaer Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:09:24 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Problem with LLDB38 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:09:28 -0000 Hello, I'm running freebsd 11.1 and I just installed the package lldb38. It seems to have an old problem: input is converted to somthing that looks like unicode (mentioned in 2016 already - - https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=214714). A clear answer is not given, but somewhere it is mentioned the problem is solved in version 3.9. I did not find an lldb39 package or port, but I cannot imagine such a problem remaining unmentioned, so something must have gone wrong in my installation. Did anyone encounter this problem, or has an idea what could have gone wrong here? Thanks, Edwin Ancaer From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 21:33:01 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB731DEA6C8 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:33:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 926BF65A82 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:33:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from segfault-nmh-helo.tristatelogic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88A23AEFC for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:32:53 -0800 (PST) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" to: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? In-Reply-To: <37725.1511844646@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 13:32:53 -0800 Message-ID: <47545.1511991173@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 21:33:01 -0000 In message <37725.1511844646@segfault.tristatelogic.com>, I wrote: >... >I just now installed 11.1-RELEASE on a USB stick and booted from >that into the "Live" mode, and I was hoping to use that to try >my test(s) again on the (possibly failing) harddrive, but it >seems like maybe in Live mode there is no way to mount NTFS >filesystems. Bummer. :-( > >Is that actually true? Is there an easy/fast way around it? > > >P.S. Should I maybe file a PR, suggesting the enhancement that >the "ntfs-3g" tool be included in the Live mode image? (It >really does seems a pity if it ain't in there.) It was suggested to me that I ought to post a follow-up / post mortem regarding this issue, just to close out the topic. Bottom line: After much fiddling and gnashing of teeth, it turned out that I had a failed/failing harddrive. The specific one that failed... in a rather odd way... was a 3-year-old out-of-warranty WD "blue" 320GB 2.5" laptop drive that I'd been using on occasion as a scratch drive. (I've got these clever things called Kinwin KF-255-BK "trayless" hot-swap bays on the front on my systems that let me easily insert or remove a 2.5" or 3.5" drive any time I want.) Anyway, the drive was failing, but I didn't know it because it just started to get real real slow. The fact that it was failing was ultimately confirmed by attempting to run the built-in "long" form firmware diagnostics. That should have taken only about 1 hour to run. I left it running overnight, and it -never- finished. The drive is now in my e-waste pile. I have -never- had any WD "black" drive fail on me, but I don't believe that I'll be buying any more of the "blue" ones. (The fact that this one failed is rather inexplicable, because even though it was 3 years old, it had less than 1,000 power-on hours on it, and less than 200 power-ups.) In this case, having a FreeBSD "live" system with support for NTFS may perhaps not have gotten me to the ultimate resolution of the problem any faster, but I still do think that it would be a Good Idea to include the ntfs-3g thingy in the normative release images... because you never know when this might be a great help. Then again, perhaps if I had just started with a mini/memstick image then I could perhaps have loaded ntfs-3g, over the net, into the "live" system. Would that have worked? I dunno. I didn't try it. Does anybody know? Regards, rfg From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Nov 29 22:04:37 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B730DEB34C for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:04:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from homiemail-a115.g.dreamhost.com (sub5.mail.dreamhost.com [208.113.200.129]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2259C6698A for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:04:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mail@ozzmosis.com) Received: from homiemail-a115.g.dreamhost.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by homiemail-a115.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E64F1807762E; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:04:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=ozzmosis.com; h=date:from :to:cc:subject:message-id:mime-version:content-type:in-reply-to; s=ozzmosis.com; bh=DHEgWwkxkzXM+pYyZctSWgpUqHY=; b=oPytSvbdom3e kYb+rAKPfESS7uBC6kKnzhn7/hgX0v20NhdZO+uBBTS3RB3B7cb7OBngDvexiSjV Xs0jaiT0Yc1D0H+Uu2LDK7Full0+WZfEKGA8nN6HbyqsxPNOBPWjgTdiY0vadlGO MV3z2mIBn/V2Nmm0ThUDOTikIboA5HA= Received: from blizzard.ozzmosis.com (210-84-29-66.dyn.iinet.net.au [210.84.29.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: relay@ozzmosis.com) by homiemail-a115.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 59E4F1807762C; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 14:04:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by blizzard.ozzmosis.com (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 1A0945D0; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:04:27 +1100 (AEDT) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:04:26 +1100 From: andrew clarke To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? Message-ID: <20171129220426.277zfvzwlmoyyy5t@ozzmosis.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <37725.1511844646@segfault.tristatelogic.com> <47545.1511991173@segfault.tristatelogic.com> User-Agent: NeoMutt/20171027 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 22:04:37 -0000 On Mon 2017-11-27 20:50:46 UTC-0800, Ronald F. Guilmette (rfg@tristatelogic.com) wrote: > For the life of me, I can't figure out where Ubuntu stores > low-level disk error messages. I think they should appear in > /var/log/kern.log, but don't see any disk errors in there. > (Sigh.) Ubuntu sends disk errors to /var/log/syslog, I believe. On Wed 2017-11-29 13:32:53 UTC-0800, Ronald F. Guilmette (rfg@tristatelogic.com) wrote: > In this case, having a FreeBSD "live" system with support for NTFS may > perhaps not have gotten me to the ultimate resolution of the problem any > faster, but I still do think that it would be a Good Idea to include the > ntfs-3g thingy in the normative release images... because you never know > when this might be a great help. > > Then again, perhaps if I had just started with a mini/memstick image then > I could perhaps have loaded ntfs-3g, over the net, into the "live" system. > Would that have worked? I dunno. I didn't try it. Does anybody know? I suspect something along the lines of: pkg install fusefs-ntfs mount_ntfs-3g -o ro /dev/da0s1 /mnt would've worked. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 04:12:49 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 748FBDF5B15 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 04:12:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eancaer@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf0-x236.google.com (mail-lf0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECA7972F4B for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 04:12:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from eancaer@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf0-x236.google.com with SMTP id x204so6344595lfa.11 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:12:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=OMWvXU0aC0N5xsYim1nbylIqu+biQPJ3vpKIMNqVAic=; b=Pjt/RsR2eagWX+jyZfMk5RU+Z39GZjkP/S0MgrAXnqYBmTh5lUfP81kngSl7etEali kgRcApp/Y5G3fuqBp24IXw5WvtEeT1HpZjqL9ylfy4aaiuLdNMTFe0gx6xE/i80Wr7qc SeONCplx6n3iWvguTwtwBRyovS61dfpARrxF93yAV2hLW9uQlU90SE7tEK5/q4aD+Vql fasl/CBQnWWPoJrx3VfCvDT/ufplwcFR1XaIZlmMNBMGHCABGkyUFZKYUFYON0IavGYI urvJBT6ka2OOFRX3Tbg4U7VsU9uS5T/9dWQ2p/VYxFMLDSzeVBsL2gaf6VI2ZPkYbtXn JqeA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=OMWvXU0aC0N5xsYim1nbylIqu+biQPJ3vpKIMNqVAic=; b=TYGMf2iHo7oZzNT3Ge6f2/bfHc9vUpr/MaRXnQIEaOypZtdoHsbFx4eNNCAGkx+rRi N/HpPQdNfXpBqwmMx7Rb868N8rNmO6qZbd+GSlt4k3N7LtPKmXD/nNlKCXQglMI2JjP9 KTYhWCTBTudTG2faOVIlhKxH9Bx5uVsarzZg2ZTIqya3gvIqRYgDl/L8AtjEPDV5mliB 0XcFPIJseH8Znj2K1vdugV25CkF2EKOERnW93RNMW9KhCAdAm62KPe6WEtP/3Zq0EC4u OxZbFmxUzXusrwMA67RVuODk7K9oNzITnjml/KapbyNz9VbYEpUbEPETNDH5KZ5+NKNk 364g== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX4MG7AGXPPqg1yDzjTgM5ZwH6lTyFG0NZQaghFocrKiH5ROHHSB CnFrPRw/4siNJPZ7xbslsqUzV8KyNqUXmFUNXzBWDg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZqIIZo2SF+eu5IoAP5vAItw6rqGzPOXWwVKOZXIVYRPFWyMpcz/WpXNyN18iQNVEKUeHWH01JLn1ILGhJwERI= X-Received: by 10.46.80.73 with SMTP id v9mr2425763ljd.93.1512015166478; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:12:46 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.46.101.71 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:12:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.46.101.71 with HTTP; Wed, 29 Nov 2017 20:12:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: From: Edwin Ancaer Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 05:12:45 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Problem with LLDB38 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 04:12:49 -0000 Stupid me. I just installed lvm40 and everything is ok now. My apologies for the dumb question here. =F0=9F=98=9E Op 29 nov. 2017 22:09 schreef "Edwin Ancaer" : > Hello, > > I'm running freebsd 11.1 and I just installed the package lldb38. It seem= s > to have an old problem: input is converted to somthing that looks like > unicode (mentioned in 2016 already - > - https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=3D214714). > > > A clear answer is not given, but somewhere it is mentioned the problem is > solved in version 3.9. I did not find an lldb39 package or port, but I > cannot imagine such a problem remaining unmentioned, so something must ha= ve > gone wrong in my installation. > > Did anyone encounter this problem, or has an idea what could have gone > wrong here? > > Thanks, > > Edwin Ancaer > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 10:19:54 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 694BDDFEB32 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:19:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.home.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org", Issuer "fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3FCE7EB04 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:19:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.home.qeng-ho.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vAU9p71u058246; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:51:08 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <47545.1511991173@segfault.tristatelogic.com> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <78bf2bd4-63e0-afce-1b24-ebdadba055b5@qeng-ho.org> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 09:51:07 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <47545.1511991173@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:19:54 -0000 On 29/11/2017 21:32, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message <37725.1511844646@segfault.tristatelogic.com>, I wrote: > >> ... >> I just now installed 11.1-RELEASE on a USB stick and booted from >> that into the "Live" mode, and I was hoping to use that to try >> my test(s) again on the (possibly failing) harddrive, but it >> seems like maybe in Live mode there is no way to mount NTFS >> filesystems. Bummer. :-( >> >> Is that actually true? Is there an easy/fast way around it? >> >> >> P.S. Should I maybe file a PR, suggesting the enhancement that >> the "ntfs-3g" tool be included in the Live mode image? (It >> really does seems a pity if it ain't in there.) > > It was suggested to me that I ought to post a follow-up / post mortem > regarding this issue, just to close out the topic. > > Bottom line: After much fiddling and gnashing of teeth, it turned out > that I had a failed/failing harddrive. The specific one that failed... > in a rather odd way... was a 3-year-old out-of-warranty WD "blue" 320GB 2.5" > laptop drive that I'd been using on occasion as a scratch drive. (I've > got these clever things called Kinwin KF-255-BK "trayless" hot-swap bays > on the front on my systems that let me easily insert or remove a 2.5" > or 3.5" drive any time I want.) > > Anyway, the drive was failing, but I didn't know it because it just > started to get real real slow. The fact that it was failing was ultimately > confirmed by attempting to run the built-in "long" form firmware diagnostics. > That should have taken only about 1 hour to run. I left it running overnight, > and it -never- finished. The drive is now in my e-waste pile. > > I have -never- had any WD "black" drive fail on me, but I don't believe > that I'll be buying any more of the "blue" ones. (The fact that this one > failed is rather inexplicable, because even though it was 3 years old, > it had less than 1,000 power-on hours on it, and less than 200 power-ups.) As a matter of curiosity, did you note the Start_Stop_Count value and was it far higher than the power cycle count? I've had WD Blue drives fail on me as well. I think it's because the 2.5" Blue drives are aimed at laptops and their firmware has (or had) the same aggressive power saving/head parking behaviour as the Green drives, which interacts badly with Unix style regular syncs. I got round that by installing smartmontools and using -e standby,off in smartd.conf to prevent the disk idling. It may seem paradoxical that making the disk work more stops it failing, but it worked for me. It will tend to eat a laptop's battery, but my machines were all mains powered. These days I mainly use SSDs so spin up/down isn't a problem. > In this case, having a FreeBSD "live" system with support for NTFS may > perhaps not have gotten me to the ultimate resolution of the problem any > faster, but I still do think that it would be a Good Idea to include the > ntfs-3g thingy in the normative release images... because you never know > when this might be a great help. > > Then again, perhaps if I had just started with a mini/memstick image then > I could perhaps have loaded ntfs-3g, over the net, into the "live" system. > Would that have worked? I dunno. I didn't try it. Does anybody know? -- An amusing coincidence: log2(58) = 5.858 (to 0.0003% accuracy). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 10:27:55 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF03DFEE07 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:27:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Received: from smtp.krpservers.com (smtp.krpservers.com [62.13.128.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.krpservers.com", Issuer "RapidSSL SHA256 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 670057EEF7 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:27:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Received: from [10.12.30.106] (host165-120-222-85.range165-120.btcentralplus.com [165.120.222.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.krpservers.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAUAOCh7092515 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:24:14 GMT (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:23:55 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Security updates / 'procstat' to find daemons to restart - reliable? Message-ID: <45CAA442C95AA5B35EF0AF7C@[10.12.30.106]> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 10:27:55 -0000 Hi All, When applying patches I usually reboot machines. But the recent FreeBSD-SA-17:11.openssl update handily looks like just a 'restart of daemons using the library' will do it. So - on a 10.3-p24 system, if I run: procstat -va | grep libcrypto I get a list of process ID's that turn out to be things like sshd, unbound etc. As you'd expect. So then I do a 'freebsd-update fetch' and 'freebsd-update install'. Re-run 'procstat -va' - and now there is no mention of 'libcrypto'. If 'libcrypto' does not appear in 'procstat -va' output does that mean I'm good to go? (i.e. nothing has it open, so nothing needs restarting - and any future 'opens' on that library, will of course use the new one on-disk?) Did the action of 'freebsd-update install' cause some behind the scenes "Oh, this library has changed under me I'll unload" type thing (or break any open references to it?) If I restart, say 'sshd' - once again, 'procstat -va' now shows 'libcrypto.so.7' is in use by pid 53569 (sshd) This is a little confusing... -Karl From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 14:47:21 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 342AAE5D450 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:47:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Received: from smtp.krpservers.com (smtp.krpservers.com [62.13.128.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "*.krpservers.com", Issuer "RapidSSL SHA256 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1CE666A97 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:47:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Received: from [10.12.30.106] (host165-120-222-85.range165-120.btcentralplus.com [165.120.222.85]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp.krpservers.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vAUElGXY010588 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:47:18 GMT (envelope-from kpielorz_lst@tdx.co.uk) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:46:58 +0000 From: Karl Pielorz To: "Kevin P. Neal" cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Security updates / 'procstat' to find daemons to restart - reliable? Message-ID: <675C99D459C8A5345CBCDFE3@[10.12.30.106]> In-Reply-To: <20171130142120.GA71392@neutralgood.org> References: <45CAA442C95AA5B35EF0AF7C@[10.12.30.106]> <20171130142120.GA71392@neutralgood.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.8 (Win32) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 14:47:21 -0000 --On 30 November 2017 09:21 -0500 "Kevin P. Neal" wrote: > Unverified guess: Hmm, seems a pretty good guess :) > When the library is updated the old library is deleted first. But since > the library is still open it still exists. It just doesn't show up in any > directory. That's normal Unix behavior. > > Now, the guess is that if the library doesn't show up in any directory > then procstat can't figure out the name of the library. Is there any > mention of a library that has no name? That would certainly explain the behaviour, and running a 'before' and 'after' procstat - I can see: Before 'freebsd-update install' 1093 ... r-x 460 507 31 10 CN-- vn /lib/libcrypto.so.7 After, 1093 ... r-x 460 512 31 10 CN-- vn So that appears to be the case, the file has 'changed' (i.e. inode etc.) - and is no longer available to be displayed. I can't see any obvious "marker" (other than a blank filename) for this - so I guess I have to run the check before the 'install' - note what's using what, run the install - then restart the affected software. Thanks for the guess! (I mean reply! :) Regards, -Karl From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Thu Nov 30 21:10:58 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B65B0DBAAB2 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:10:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9C49775F6C for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:10:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from segfault-nmh-helo.tristatelogic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC56E3AF00 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:10:55 -0800 (PST) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? In-Reply-To: <78bf2bd4-63e0-afce-1b24-ebdadba055b5@qeng-ho.org> Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:10:55 -0800 Message-ID: <53922.1512076255@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 21:10:58 -0000 In message <78bf2bd4-63e0-afce-1b24-ebdadba055b5@qeng-ho.org>, Arthur Chance wrote: >> I have -never- had any WD "black" drive fail on me, but I don't believe >> that I'll be buying any more of the "blue" ones. (The fact that this one >> failed is rather inexplicable, because even though it was 3 years old, >> it had less than 1,000 power-on hours on it, and less than 200 power-ups.) > >As a matter of curiosity, did you note the Start_Stop_Count value and >was it far higher than the power cycle count? Well, fortunately, I did not actually dismantle the drive or beat it with a hammer, as I usually do before I put a "bad" drive in my e-waste pile. So I was able to check, just now and get a precise answer to your question: Start/stop count (raw): 709 Power Cycle count (raw): 235 >I've had WD Blue drives fail on me as well. I think it's because the >2.5" Blue drives are aimed at laptops and their firmware has (or had) >the same aggressive power saving/head parking behaviour as the Green >drives, which interacts badly with Unix style regular syncs. I got round >that by installing smartmontools and using > > -e standby,off > >in smartd.conf to prevent the disk idling. It may seem paradoxical that >making the disk work more stops it failing... Wow! These are all revelations to me! Thank you! I knew that the WD green drives were designed to idle themselves, and apparently my shiny new 4TB WD "My Passport" external USB 3.0 drive was set at the factory to do that also... an annoyance which I believe that I have now successfully disabled on that drive. What I never knew till today was that any of the "blue" drives would self-idle. Does that only happen on the 2.5" "laptop" ones? Anyway, yea, I can see how this could possibly cause problems in the case of *nix systems. (And it is annoying to me generally when my various tech toys start thinking that they are smarter than I am, and making decisions for me, especially those that I would not have made myself.) I'm gonna try to see if I can disable this "feature" on this specific drive and then see If I can maybe get it to complete the self test... which it did not do the last time I tried. But one would think/hope that even if the drive was set to auto-idle, it would at least have enough brains/courtesy not to fall asleep in the middle of a built-in firmware self-test. But maybe not. And maybe this drive is not actually broke after all. I'll be checking on that. >These days I mainly use SSDs so spin up/down isn't a problem. Quite so. However if your SSDs ever -do- start to spin, then you've got a real problem on your hands. :-) From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 02:35:35 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E61BDF10B7 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 02:35:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.126.187]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1172B8024D for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 02:35:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([92.195.191.233]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue006 [212.227.15.167]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 0M1MLN-1fDnB73NEX-00tQjW; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 03:30:12 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 03:29:57 +0100 From: Polytropon To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? Message-Id: <20171201032957.576e569a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <53922.1512076255@segfault.tristatelogic.com> References: <78bf2bd4-63e0-afce-1b24-ebdadba055b5@qeng-ho.org> <53922.1512076255@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:QX0aIOTnVHE4KHphurLMvDC2KKcgXj1M5skldNOdSrOYDKQWgjr hB4itBrLnO8XpYiZpXMuOy9XlkAhJIfdEOUyZ/wESv65Pt1c0Hrff6+R1yPTSWcpKvDE47b 7ypnUMoffsy21BWI6bYlRuzWAYhCcCBHhYJbhVTnKGvjnE560NVQZwyz2q23Q41XvKYINnx 71PZFWvvDjtu4L480aWeg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:2Dv27r4lAZQ=:TY8Kft4PB/xQ9VHyaw8Sma GmnfrTlsTXxiQIR7RlTHyRaqfEmA7Vrxw75mHQJR44d06JZ+7wYKgS3cFkCRF4rLdAC6X080O vKNQiKFtvU30KQT03e6A0+JlDz8Vm2W/e2XowkcBPaRZOfZPhZ+W/czNGHFuFsTNCZVayPCgU XmZPm/FB52l/JS6B5lUwSvy9aHKFixRCaN9dNUmwMx9axaku17Z8CUcz7uzoQU6cvTDn4QXGu bahn1dZqDJdU5J7BOUk1TsqSwA3IK0CxmcTq3aery+PDrGceT+mL5ZSjBYEebhOAtDDvi2/h5 t36/LgrhehLdJ/RNl2EC88yHD9gj+yRHba735YF0nRIQr5Tg4v6x4bJJ13/NkmfcXA6qTCdrj eYm7/3hjCmjWqi0o05NSCc/iX/oFcJhV+14dSOQxnpHShj9CgkA4w4Ju4xDCfLNKaqOmEV3gU VfkjXxI34YC04f4y0Pgj4zALe7G4PpnBpQgh+mERTqbrgH5mGaBJ4a/BAuFxLq9zhbp+Lsn8H UCPjfp2i/TNCU+YNkw6VL+AB4AuFQzAIcwi2a86KzW0FjfkFRUzEFE1MhetSjBuzkPguin13m hoWDsGOfKeFcqNMkhBd84lsW9YPowtHvdp8ookr2/SawpTK0P+d5u1rH3vxc5iGlJTBLz+soA BrREFTvcIUnlio9FqhVqx+AZeSD9iTsRJWOJMKZXZQtmOIvudVgxUqrGKNi9hk9hpyWHTM80i mbD59SpUVmKgOwd4iHStIKAIdAV32nZTrwAnG5u0ksk7UkUCdF/5MyGNj8N6xQDQfnTxEeg+5 9ctUbiM X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 02:35:35 -0000 On Thu, 30 Nov 2017 13:10:55 -0800, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > What I never knew till today was that any of the "blue" drives would self-idle. > > Does that only happen on the 2.5" "laptop" ones? I have a WD Blue 3.5" 2TB disk which does not seem to exhibit this behaviour. Maybe an older firmware version prior to the "green IT" move? I don't have Blue 2.5" (only SSDs) in laptops so I cannot counter-check. > Anyway, yea, I can see how this could possibly cause problems in the case of > *nix systems. (And it is annoying to me generally when my various tech toys > start thinking that they are smarter than I am, and making decisions for me, > especially those that I would not have made myself.) Get used to it - this will be the default of all "modern" items you will be able to purchase. In worst case, they come with a lower-level "know everything better than you" firmware that cannot be accessed or controlled from the OS. It doesn' matter if it's present in CPUs, mainboards, or hard disks; even cars, TVs, desk phones or heaters can be affected... :-( > I'm gonna try to see if I can disable this "feature" on this specific drive > and then see If I can maybe get it to complete the self test... which it did > not do the last time I tried. You can use smartctl to dump the capabilities and settings list of a drive to verify that setting. > But one would think/hope that even if the drive was set to auto-idle, it would > at least have enough brains/courtesy not to fall asleep in the middle of a > built-in firmware self-test. But maybe not. And maybe this drive is not > actually broke after all. Why not? "Bricked by firmware update" is nothing unusual in our "modern" "smart" time anymore. ;-) > However if your SSDs ever -do- start to spin, then you've got a real > problem on your hands. :-) If you put SSDs into an ATL and handle them like tape cartridges, well, floating, sliding and spinning becomes normal. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... 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Fri, 01 Dec 2017 03:37:18 -0800 (PST) From: Daniel Parker To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Secure freebsd.org from Google Penguin 4.0 X-Priority: 1 (Highest) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 17:07:09 +0530 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:37:19 -0000 Hi *freebsd.org,* How are you doing today? 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Thanks & Regards, Daniel Parker | (Digital Marketing Expert) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- /Disclaimer:-If Interested we will send more details on our “corporate identity”, “company profile”, “why you should choose us?”, “Price list”,etc. in our next email. If Not, You can simply reply with “remove” and we will delete your email from our list."The CAN-SPAM Act of 2003". -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 12:04:48 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6988DDFEB2B; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marek@mky.waw.pl) Received: from poczta.mky.waw.pl (poczta.mky.waw.pl [IPv6:2001:41d0:604:159::25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F4C17F2DE; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 12:04:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from marek@mky.waw.pl) Received: from poczta.mky.waw.pl (localhost [193.70.126.25]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by poczta.mky.waw.pl (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 20483434FB2; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 13:04:36 +0100 (CET) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 13:04:36 +0100 From: Marek Krawczyk To: FreeBSD Cc: "koobs@FreeBSD.org" , owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, Carmel NY Subject: Re: PROBLEM: Another instance of Certbot is already running. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <553fa03e7865a31ac5cf789c7e537a1d@mky.waw.pl> X-Sender: marek@mky.waw.pl User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail/1.3.3 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 12:04:48 -0000 Hi! W dniu 2017-12-01 12:27, Carmel NY napisał(a): > FreeBSD 11.1 RELEASE-p5 > > I have been using the p5-certbot port without a problem until > recently. It is being run via cron: /usr/local/bin/certbot -q renew > --pre-hook "service dovecot stop" --post-hook "service dovecot start". > Until recently that worked fine. Now I have started receiving this > error message: "Another instance of Certbot is already running." Try > as I might, I cannot find another instance of "certbot" running. > > Apparently, the only way to correct the problem is to reboot the > system. This only works until after the cron command has run one time, > after which the problem resurfaces. I am hoping that someone might > have a suggestion. I have the same issue with dovecot. The certbot is waiting on the post-hook command, but only when it was ran from cron. If it is running from the shell, the dovecot is restarted properly. Unfortunatelly I did not found solution for this but I can also confirm that the issue exist. Regards, Marek From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 14:14:08 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7AA14E57029 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:14:08 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from bede.home.qeng-ho.org (bede.qeng-ho.org [217.155.128.241]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org", Issuer "fileserver.home.qeng-ho.org" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 132973C18 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:14:06 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Received: from arthur.home.qeng-ho.org (arthur.home.qeng-ho.org [172.23.1.2]) by bede.home.qeng-ho.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id vB1EDw75065873; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:13:58 GMT (envelope-from freebsd@qeng-ho.org) Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? To: "Ronald F. Guilmette" , freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <53922.1512076255@segfault.tristatelogic.com> From: Arthur Chance Message-ID: <4438334a-4946-4b88-a487-ced42b7c676a@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 14:13:58 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <53922.1512076255@segfault.tristatelogic.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-GB Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 14:14:08 -0000 On 30/11/2017 21:10, Ronald F. Guilmette wrote: > > In message <78bf2bd4-63e0-afce-1b24-ebdadba055b5@qeng-ho.org>, > Arthur Chance wrote: > >>> I have -never- had any WD "black" drive fail on me, but I don't believe >>> that I'll be buying any more of the "blue" ones. (The fact that this one >>> failed is rather inexplicable, because even though it was 3 years old, >>> it had less than 1,000 power-on hours on it, and less than 200 power-ups.) >> >> As a matter of curiosity, did you note the Start_Stop_Count value and >> was it far higher than the power cycle count? > > Well, fortunately, I did not actually dismantle the drive or beat it with > a hammer, as I usually do before I put a "bad" drive in my e-waste pile. > So I was able to check, just now and get a precise answer to your question: > > Start/stop count (raw): 709 > Power Cycle count (raw): 235 Hmm, that's not it. After finding this https://superuser.com/questions/840851/how-much-load-cycle-count-can-my-hard-drive-hypotethically-sustain I think it was probably the Load_Cycle_Count. Whichever it was, I'd see the relevant raw figure increasing at a ridiculous rate. >> I've had WD Blue drives fail on me as well. I think it's because the >> 2.5" Blue drives are aimed at laptops and their firmware has (or had) >> the same aggressive power saving/head parking behaviour as the Green >> drives, which interacts badly with Unix style regular syncs. I got round >> that by installing smartmontools and using >> >> -e standby,off >> >> in smartd.conf to prevent the disk idling. It may seem paradoxical that >> making the disk work more stops it failing... > > Wow! These are all revelations to me! Thank you! I knew that the WD green > drives were designed to idle themselves, and apparently my shiny new 4TB > WD "My Passport" external USB 3.0 drive was set at the factory to do that > also... an annoyance which I believe that I have now successfully disabled > on that drive. > > What I never knew till today was that any of the "blue" drives would self-idle. > > Does that only happen on the 2.5" "laptop" ones? I think it was only the 2.5" ones. Aggressive power save makes sense for a laptop but not a desktop. > Anyway, yea, I can see how this could possibly cause problems in the case of > *nix systems. (And it is annoying to me generally when my various tech toys > start thinking that they are smarter than I am, and making decisions for me, > especially those that I would not have made myself.) > > I'm gonna try to see if I can disable this "feature" on this specific drive > and then see If I can maybe get it to complete the self test... which it did > not do the last time I tried. > > But one would think/hope that even if the drive was set to auto-idle, it would > at least have enough brains/courtesy not to fall asleep in the middle of a > built-in firmware self-test. But maybe not. And maybe this drive is not > actually broke after all. > > I'll be checking on that. > >> These days I mainly use SSDs so spin up/down isn't a problem. > > Quite so. > > However if your SSDs ever -do- start to spin, then you've got a real > problem on your hands. :-) An astronomer friend insists all SSDs rotate at ~0.0007 rpm. :-) -- An amusing coincidence: log2(58) = 5.858 (to 0.0003% accuracy). From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 19:41:59 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6BDDE68B13 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:41:59 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from outgoing.tristatelogic.com (segfault.tristatelogic.com [69.62.255.118]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB88B6E0A6 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 19:41:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from rfg@tristatelogic.com) Received: from segfault-nmh-helo.tristatelogic.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by segfault.tristatelogic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2340E3AF0E for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 11:41:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Ronald F. Guilmette" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Mount NTFS from "Live" system? In-Reply-To: <4438334a-4946-4b88-a487-ced42b7c676a@qeng-ho.org> Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 11:41:51 -0800 Message-ID: <60006.1512157311@segfault.tristatelogic.com> X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 19:41:59 -0000 I think that I can close out this interesting and informative discussion, now. The drive in question, a WD 2.5" 32GB "blue", really is/was bad. I didn't know that for sure until last night, when I finally broke down and used WD's own (Windoze-based) diagnostic tool to run the long-form S.M.A.R.T. test. (I usually run S.M.A.R.T tests via a different tool contained on something called the "Ultimate Boot CD".) An important (and helpful) difference with the WD diagnostic tool is that when it is used to run either the short or long built-in S.M.A.R.T. tests the user interface actually shows you, in real time, a running counter showing the sector number of the current disk sector being tested at that instant. If the test is running normally, the displayed sector number will increase smoothly and rapidly... the sector numbers will change so fast you can't even read them. In the case of this specific (bad) drive, the WD diagnostic tools showed the sector numbers increasing during the long S.M.A.R.T. test, usually very fast, but at times the sector numbers would increase only much more slowly, sometimes even to the point where a single sector number number would stay on the screen for several seconds in a row. Quite obviously, based on the highly variable speed of progression, the diagnostic test was having a LOT of trouble either reading or writing to a LOT of sectors on this specific drive. So, you know, the drive is obviously ripe for the junk heap. The other good thing about the WD diagnostic tool is that it dynamically adjusts the displayed "time remaining" for the long S.M.A.R.T. test, based on the size of the disk and how much progress the test has made so far. I didn't even finish running the long test. I ran it for an hour or so, but by that point the "time remaining" was showing as 9+ hours, and since I already knew by then that the drive was utterly broke, it wasn't worth continuing. It still seems quite bizzare to me that a well-treated drive with so few hours on it could have gone so uttrely bad, even while spending the vast majority of its short life just sitting on the shelf. It would seem that "bit rot" might not be just a joke, and might be a real world phenomenon after all. From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Dec 1 22:49:10 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1C0DB984D for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:49:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stoa@gmx.us) Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.gmx.net", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass DE-2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 552BA751E5 for ; Fri, 1 Dec 2017 22:49:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from stoa@gmx.us) Received: from dutch.freebsd.net ([97.66.214.165]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx101 [212.227.17.174]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MVrQS-1eaF6s0Aki-00X46f for ; Fri, 01 Dec 2017 23:49:02 +0100 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2017 16:48:46 -0600 From: Dutch Ingraham To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Cannot mount ext2fs in read-write mode Message-ID: <20171201224845.GA1079@dutch.freebsd.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:SVk3IpZY2qF6Ik/V7JTXDIfUmQg9cZgRLrbvmVsG+slS7KI1wIe y5y8I/I7DnxcTsd9qhNRS/Q3Un2EpCAey2k6In95swgMgtCqYGM9AbTRurQmWGHBTxnhaSx T2cyRAI6mToxVLJeGXdpcHXdkuENysJSziAg8diUJbf7kHChBTKPTe1ZudjkrglQTGvbAIq gWpZupRgw9oJ0MV9MD0lg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:bShzVBqyaJ8=:tFNKiEZ9SK+5KRlIhPa8t9 5PFxmwVTvly1/gujI7MV0V2ZZ2mjaYQyucFc10pESlrWQXRIdlI+7a2R5awIXrnn6Qd9EH3Ye jFZzb/xJfbZXTZ9KpV2zljB2qr94X56V87I3zWpXYWR7RIyHKDj/5EqIyl4cfHt9YZ850UIbF TmPgyXp39j9Lmmv6qOcNIz+C05l0878aVkzKtzR3B7VZX4XfOEuyqtcp/inAQJ9doEoXbhpN9 iQaWLBaAPIP9UH2BBO90+IMJgN2w4JVJlGzWDAhQe4S+NwVTamVriHz7Ddd5R9ujtnHltrfNm YdNRO1zcygA4s1Q8STZAGFMWFFyjT6ZdGsH5tzb6JY4993zoWRMfscOWbWQ580LctyL68bGPl nin2qZjTJJae64as4rgphunL8VoUSOM/fXDUj+T/ojLbpDWas/4ZGIQVUU6XCeZGskh7TuZzT WF7q2A9JurTVXWxe+ys/LDptBBVt096B3Y5UJrFvRRyFW5KsvPKAtOg6Nm4tFDdgaQObugtfB v/LaDDgdcWNnH3V8kF0C9kV5VLJWs1FRn6U452oLT2oDlyrptQuXA/4zH+KyFTSDe0HbP67NN C04ONcMToxilEhNJs5TTLdribhKR4ua6n7uLX0y6i1brb2yqPDtCn+bznSa8yYhdSCd8bAVCT duq80jSyn2dibNTfq2MyqDGlUJmpWCD79a+6k6b3P62p/v+Xv7AHv+Xm64SdOObuH6mq8ZxQ8 fe62yuQjmhOHMgW7ok5EGRxFDJ3ejD7vPFR6dtfs0LqqmgyS+DVJLrHFbzgf8pbA5ZvE3D+yO upvYDYQop/iubXJlI9kBwXSqLJjIw== X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2017 22:49:11 -0000 Hi everybody: I cannot seem to mount a thumbdrive formatted to ext2fs in read-write mode on my FreeBSD 11.1-RELEASE-p4 #0 system. The error is: /usr/home/dutch $ sudo mount -t ext2fs /dev/da0s1 /media/usb mount: /dev/da0s1: Operation not permitted It seems some years ago there was an inode limit of 128 on mounting ext2fs in read-write mode; see this[1] thread for example. There seems to have been a patch that corrected this situation and allowed inodes of 256 (my case). However, the advice in that thread is 9 years old. The current manpage for ext2fs(5) only states one requirement (build-in or load the ext2fs kernel module) and indicates that the restriction on read-write mode only aplies to the ext4 filesystem, and I am attempting to mount the ext2 filesystem. A current forum post[2] seems to indicate there is still an issue (regardless of the 2016 ext2fs manpage) mounting an ext2 filesystem read-write (although it is somewhat ambiguous whether the OP was trying to mount an ext2 or ext4 filesystem). Can someone please advise (1) if FreeBSD provides for mounting an ext2 filesystem in read-write mode, and if so, (2) what I am doing wrong? Thanks for your help. PS - I can mount read-only, but that doesn't help me much. [1] https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/912/ [2] https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/60501/ From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 21:43:45 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58524E6A96E for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 21:43:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpc@porterclark.com) Received: from mail.cluebytwelve.org (clueby12.org [198.211.114.170]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C5F7EAD3 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 21:43:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jpc@porterclark.com) Received: from 24-183-226-240.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com (macporter [66.168.150.190]) by mail.cluebytwelve.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 194FC20053 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 16:36:31 -0500 (EST) Received: by 24-183-226-240.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com (Postfix, from userid 501) id 5B5F31752293C; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:36:29 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:36:28 -0600 From: "J. Porter Clark" To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: FLAVOR python and portmaster mess Message-ID: <20171202213628.2wmwck7kjkwkstdc@MacPorter.local> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Organization: http://www.angelfire.com/ego/porterclark/ User-Agent: NeoMutt/20171027 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:43:45 -0000 So, are those of us who use portmaster to upgrade just totally screwed when it comes to python? ===>>> The devel/py27-setuptools port moved to devel/py-setuptools@py27 ===>>> Reason: Moved to a flavored, generic, version and so on. -- J. Porter Clark From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Dec 2 23:44:12 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A24E6C96B for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 23:44:12 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave.mehler@gmail.com) Received: from mail-wr0-x22d.google.com (mail-wr0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E07FA1807 for ; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 23:44:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dave.mehler@gmail.com) Received: by mail-wr0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id a41so11701774wra.6 for ; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 15:44:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=1a3+L098KXIcC1kFWnuS+6rhrb9gQKV62tomGPKxxpE=; b=NA97PufGcTEyKajy+Ta+aWx2J1159S2Uv5sROvitNg8ScSKwW/acmOccBygvBrmnZy wh0qJhymeoa7C2hEViEuxfNDIqkwfQRJWcftS54nDr5tYGYRf6HxP8AWQL3F5jnkkNMJ 7ZQIjo4TRcHG0qa0RSncOwVYy28hJtMzAxDOS4dtuBDRdSakzcG0ZDfSIrYu6/0xVLM1 PeRF57y836qRd6Vt2jcTHvFbB0vfp0trT7h5DFX0vJbx0VbQHmWqKCPAl7lkJekqaJ9E DJQFmUuYU7S7Uj3O2OvTInMh1f+SeYSFOUjKW1rULPEhP5VlSoYSWgV1EZbBtrXdb0Kz lFWA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=1a3+L098KXIcC1kFWnuS+6rhrb9gQKV62tomGPKxxpE=; b=RY1llhF0yiSQ48PKJPe1OyRlLbwJns/nCMyeypXy9QkRsG214O6qNeNFR9NyYt86gB IWhA2uMTR7Ayp08YTTjvdP7vwGnnN7WewjHHdPIC7k1IPZQdCfRgmv7PLly0bjNvVZBn PFyOvxA0y3US2e7H9lte3se6/4qI2ALTXxQZu0BdOMujjAPdKvqZd+7qFP6wBGwpmmic tPNasM6X7/3IHKsYuPy1QvcLQDlXnZj15v2lkhzLFZ6A2T7F/hTLYg52Lr2c3VMlcxhO 0tdtBAZeOBYgpZLXSKImdbRFVe7IPp6P+OYgUU5oHcwSMmVz7dq825pRDnkMfDVHGoq/ Y8ng== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5JVN0md0CnVp+/JgBJUUdfEHZmocSNyuTTpVU5VdoSrRsfz7Fl 1v0eoneWE2UvGEMjwfTb5HCMKwXocd/BVyO0fv4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMbH95a5EdnAnP8qlDw/1sk9j9AqlvHSfrUQOPP5rEGGW8sZ89Gfd0MnjaABS6OWen8gs/YeSytofe2amOPv0Mo= X-Received: by 10.223.139.149 with SMTP id o21mr8719749wra.87.1512258249555; Sat, 02 Dec 2017 15:44:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.128.132 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 15:44:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20171202213628.2wmwck7kjkwkstdc@MacPorter.local> References: <20171202213628.2wmwck7kjkwkstdc@MacPorter.local> From: David Mehler Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 18:44:08 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FLAVOR python and portmaster mess To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 23:44:12 -0000 Hello, I have no official fix from the dev. I did get a workaround for the issue, though I don't know if it will hold through another update. What I did was removed devel/py27-setuptools and then reinstalled the py-setuptools from the port installation directory. Dave On 12/2/17, J. Porter Clark wrote: > So, are those of us who use portmaster to upgrade just totally > screwed when it comes to python? > > ===>>> The devel/py27-setuptools port moved to devel/py-setuptools@py27 > ===>>> Reason: Moved to a flavored, generic, version > > and so on. > > -- > J. Porter Clark > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >