From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Oct 17 7:49: 5 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 871B037B401 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:49:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk [81.2.69.218]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A23F43EA3 for ; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 07:49:02 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from m.seaman@infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: from happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by smtp.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id g9HEljKg090733; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:47:45 +0100 (BST) (envelope-from matthew@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk) Received: (from matthew@localhost) by happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophile.co.uk (8.12.6/8.12.6/Submit) id g9HEleBl090732; Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:47:40 +0100 (BST) Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 15:47:40 +0100 From: Matthew Seaman To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Cc: Jonathon McKitrick Subject: Re: 'Coolest' development tool of the day?? Message-ID: <20021017144740.GG88261@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophi> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, Jonathon McKitrick References: <20021012033923.GA91466@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> <6B128304-DDF7-11D6-AF4A-000393A335A2@earthlink.net> <20021012163529.GA36537@happy-idiot-talk.infracaninophi> <20021017122541.GA44453@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20021017122541.GA44453@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.1i X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-13.4 required=5.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01, USER_AGENT,USER_AGENT_MUTT version=2.41 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Oct 17, 2002 at 01:25:41PM +0100, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 05:35:29PM +0100, Matthew Seaman wrote: > | On Sat, Oct 12, 2002 at 11:29:37AM -0400, Larry Sica wrote: > | > | > Does OSX count ;). I've been looking at Project Builder under OS X and > | > I like it. Too bad there is no FreeBSD port. That said, on FreeBSD I > | > use a combination of nedit, make, gtkdiff and tkcvs. I haven't. I > | > tried Kdevelop and it is not bad either imho. > | > | http://www.gnustep.org/, particularly > | http://www.gnustep.org/experience/ProjectCenter.html > | > | Ports: devel/gnustep > > It looks cool, but do you have to switch to Objective C? > How long has this tool been around? I'm surprised I haven't heard of it > before. Oh, since before the Apple --- NeXT merger: something like '96 or '97 I think. The impetus was provided by NeXT publishing the OpenStep specification when they were trying to do a deal with Sun and get an OpenStep desktop onto Solaris. I remember mucking about with a beta version running on Solaris 2.6 on an Ultra 5 --- it was quite usable if a bit slow and clunky compared to NeXTSTEP running native on the same hardware. The whole project was hampered by some daft design decisions, like trying to layer the whole OpenStep display postscript thing on top of X-Windows. Experience has shown that it's far better to provide X functionality by using a rootless X display on top of the DPS layer (or DPDF in MacOS X). Ultimately the Solaris/Openstep project was canned in favour of devoting resources to this upstart little language called Java --- ironic in many ways: the semantics of Objective-C and Java are very similar, even if the syntax is pretty different. Which is because one of the very early Java developers started out as a NeXT-head and he heavily based his work on Obj-C. So much so that MacOS X Project Builder can use either Obj-C or Java interchangably to interface to the standard object libraries. If Sun had had their collective heads together, they could have been shipping a Java based desktop environment with all that NeXTy goodness before the millenium and they might still have had a toehold in the desktop market today... Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 26 The Paddocks Savill Way Marlow Tel: +44 1628 476614 Bucks., SL7 1TH UK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message