From owner-freebsd-wireless@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Oct 23 18:11:30 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 928BAE3A; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:11:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from adrian.chadd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qa0-x230.google.com (mail-qa0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2E8D622CA; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:11:30 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f48.google.com with SMTP id k4so739368qaq.14 for ; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:11:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=X0rrZZpORMURQsjA+sf/oq7jS0rSYdoeq6ADpXAngiM=; b=j1+sF7W3rJGCQScHLYQzZtpiVsq9zhIpdJQ+keFV6PNiZwOCU2XXU/hlHlnWAXJ8WC RwX5ZSMA6ltyvmNFd8/9aHaRWc1ETl4U589+zAZz3Y2SfK6Nd5x6bXif9+e2o3hEjlFV Q9dblnoVDO63WlrmFfa5Dy6r7foxrF2lvp1rdaU4epBY52UJGIybEyNkDNPUESGeKI5d hEzm1JUo0KizW5PaetPOxIDcvQnHWSOajbAeZrxhju13NZ0z9P8LxSL+lGK5hvIJWqu/ xJmjSNqdgKm89T0VSXQouKqdKFfGL9+i8apwuZhC1rwb2WP33kCNZbOQJrUxIvxX5fAD XNUg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.49.103.161 with SMTP id fx1mr3997476qeb.68.1382551889396; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:11:29 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.207.66 with HTTP; Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:11:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <526810DB.20705@mu.org> References: <5265878B.1050809@yandex.ru> <201310212146.r9LLkqZ1044966@fire.js.berklix.net> <201310231023.32351.jhb@freebsd.org> <526810DB.20705@mu.org> Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 11:11:29 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: N_cGOpzUcpqPZheZ4VnvkpjCHnc Message-ID: Subject: Re: [rfc] removing the NDISulator From: Adrian Chadd To: Alfred Perlstein Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.14 Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , freebsd-current , "freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org" , John Baldwin X-BeenThere: freebsd-wireless@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Discussions of 802.11 stack, tools device driver development." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2013 18:11:30 -0000 On 23 October 2013 11:09, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > Eh, having taken a stab at porting the bwl blob already, I would strongly >> oppose removing NDIS. If you do that I will just stop using my netbook >> with a Broadcom part altogether as I wouldn't be able to use it to try to >> test bwl changes. The NDIS thing is a bit hackish, but it is quite useful >> for a lot of folks. >> >> I have to agree. Deprecation != motivation. I can pull out examples of this not holding true: * all the giant locking in drivers * all the giant locking in VFS People did pop up and claim ownership of things they cared about. Some stuff died, some stuff didn't. There was enough of a motivation by us to kill giant off in these pathways so things could continue to evolve. We didn't leave the GIANT crutch in forever. -adrian