From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Mar 14 13:37:28 2005 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC08816A4CE for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:37:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.198]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1932A43D6B for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:37:28 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from torstenvl@gmail.com) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 36so1700565wra for ; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:37:27 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:references; b=tBVQTBVNQ0/zq2DtG8gSHTNmKAYDkPpwfkJN69LUvqvEHAfjsO0+WM7+iG0qFfJ54cxzEKI/BkJv2Ike5Bn6XwSqnpiEGwRH6Ldn3IDzuXRbDo+ZFKeE4a45ZqWTQ2dswZMl2IWRZHzUSpj8TJQra10Jxysa0jgPbtTX+r+vxtI= Received: by 10.54.45.14 with SMTP id s14mr4767400wrs; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:37:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.54.11.22 with HTTP; Mon, 14 Mar 2005 05:37:27 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <126eac48050314053764857284@mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:37:27 +0100 From: Josh Ockert To: Giorgos Keramidas In-Reply-To: <20050314123953.GA1198@gothmog.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <20050312123840.19848c79.alfredoj69@gmail.com> <423346F4.7060007@makeworld.com> <885a1a993c8a666d9d4a5d6ec94031e1@chrononomicon.com> <20050313213436.GL18080@alzatex.com> <12395e66e47f4a9cbbac323fb833a9b3@chrononomicon.com> <20050314123953.GA1198@gothmog.gr> cc: "Loren M. Lang" cc: Aperez cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: Bart Silverstrim Subject: Re: Why not? X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Josh Ockert List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 13:37:28 -0000 http://www.linux-mag.com/content/view/60/112/ is the interview, btw On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 14:39:53 +0200, Giorgos Keramidas wrote: > On 2005-03-13 16:53, Bart Silverstrim wrote: > >> While each distros kernel is probably less different than a NetBSD > >> vs. FreeBSD kernel, there still each different and a lot more of > >> them. I had to download and install a very specific kernel from > >> redhat to use on my debian system so I could use my wireless card. > >> > >> Also, some features can very wildly like IPSEC, some distros patch in > >> FreeSWAN's stack, others the KAME stack. > > > > Some vendors may be directly patching certain features, for the most > > part you shouldn't have to download a specific kernel for a feature to > > work in Linux unless you wanted it pre-packaged. You should be able > > to update it by downloading the latest features, running the config to > > enable/disable what features you want compiled into the kernel (or as > > modules), then compile it. > > On the contrary, there are numerous cases when local patches, specific > to the distribution of Linux that is used, are used: > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/linux-lvm/2002-November/msg00050.html > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2004-February/msg00018.html > > Backported fixes are not evil, but they are bad when they are available > only if you are running "FooLinux version X". > > > But still, there is one source kernel, and unless the vendors did > > something proprietary (which I don't believe they're supposed to be > > allowed to do), you can compile your own kernel with your own set of > > enabled and disabled features from the Linux kernel source tree > > whether you're running Red Hat or Debian; it may break if that > > particular distro is depending on certain features as you have it > > configured and you fubar the new kernel's config, but it is still a > > matter of tweaking that configuration to get it working again. > > Hardly. Configuration changes will never fix a driver that is only > available as a patch to the kernel source tree, when the patch fails > to apply, build or install correctly -- a common case with some drivers > (i.e. Cisco VPN or SysKonnect). > > It's a bit surprising that Linus dismisses the BSD kernel teams as > fragmented, when one considers the multitude of sites and the dozens of > "local hacks, patches" and other interesting stuff one has to do in > order to customize the kernel installation of a Linux kernel. > > Let us put aside for a while the blatant error of considering three > distinct systems as one, when they are just that: three distinct systems > that just happen to share a lot of code and like cooperating on work > that is a benefit for all three. > > There *is* one place where I can go to download my FreeBSD stuff. There > is one web page, and not a zillion different sites that I have to search > through for hours. There is a single CVSup mirror that I can use both > at work and at home. But that's because I'm using _one_ of the BSD > systems. People who use some other BSD-derived system go to their own > sets of sites, mirrors, etc. > > > I can't download the sources for NetBSD's kernel, compile it on my > > FreeBSD box, and have it work no matter how much tweaking I do to the > > configuration...if I'm wrong, please someone correct me. > > Actually, you can. The NetBSD folks state that only a system relatively > compliant with POSIX is required for cross-building NetBSD on a local, > non-NetBSD system: > > http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/BUILDING?rev=1.53&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup > (See the REQUIREMENTS section.) > > > I *think* (and I'm not following the story closely) what Linus was > > saying is that it's stupid to have so many people working in parallel > > on such similar cousins...NetBSD, OpenBSD, and FreeBSD. They share > > code, they share info, but optimize for certain goals and have a lot > > of redundancy. > > Redundancy is good from a survival perspective. Diversity is also good, > from an evolutionary perspective. For every bad thing Linus can say > about having separate teams working on the systems they enjoy working > with, we can probably come up with htwo reasons why this is good. > > > Linux's kernel is Linux's kernel, modified by individuals but still > > one big bulky source tree to work from. > > Hardly. Otherwise, it would be easy to point a browser to a single, > central place and browse the history of the Linux kernel from 0.9.x to > 1.x and then to 2.x. The fact that some bits are available in a > proprietary repository somewhere is not good enough. > > In general, it's a nice interview of Linus and very enjoyable to read, > but I'm afraid he is not right about everything when he talks about the > BSDs; which is not very surprising, I guess. > > - Giorgos > > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" >