From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Jul 21 20:13:43 2005 Return-Path: X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D21216A41F for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:13:43 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from gromit.dlib.vt.edu (gromit.dlib.vt.edu [128.173.49.29]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F292D43D98 for ; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:12:58 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (pool-151-199-7-31.ROA.east.verizon.net [151.199.7.31]) by gromit.dlib.vt.edu (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id j6LKCr8Q036478 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:54 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: from zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (localhost.Chelsea-Ct.Org [127.0.0.1]) by zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id j6LKCmdt008452 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) Received: (from paul@localhost) by zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org (8.13.4/8.13.4/Submit) id j6LKCmqh008451; Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:48 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu) From: Paul Mather To: Karl Denninger In-Reply-To: <20050721192613.GA61902@FS.denninger.net> References: <200507211803.j6LI34dV005050@ferens.net> <20050721194500.W9208@fledge.watson.org> <20050721192613.GA61902@FS.denninger.net> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:12:47 -0400 Message-Id: <1121976767.7274.60.camel@zappa.Chelsea-Ct.Org> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.3 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Cc: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Quality of FreeBSD X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 20:13:43 -0000 On Thu, 2005-07-21 at 14:26 -0500, Karl Denninger wrote: > Ok, Robert, but then here's the question.... > > How come the ATA code which was very stable in 4.x was screwed with in a > production release, breaking it, with no path backwards to the working > code? Not to mention that this happened during the 5.x release cycle. It's one thing to have a regression creep in when moving from one major release to another (e.g., "oh, that's the fallout from introducing Big Feature XYZ" or "a big architectural revamp may have broken some things"), but it's another thing entirely to have it happen between minor releases, which are supposed to be "evolution, not revolution." (Although the whole "Early Adopter" status for early 5.x releases might mean all that is muddied when it comes to the 5.x series.) My main disappointment with the ATA DMA TIMEOUT bug is not that it crept in (these things happen), but that it did not seem to be taken seriously when it had done so. (Though, as Robert said, if the developers can't reproduce the problem, it's hard for them to work on and fix it.) Cheers, Paul. -- e-mail: paul@gromit.dlib.vt.edu "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Vincent Zappa