Date: Tue, 28 Mar 1995 22:07:10 -0500 (EST) From: jfieber@cs.smith.edu (John Fieber) To: jkh@freefall.cdrom.com (Jordan K. Hubbard) Cc: hackers@freefall.cdrom.com Subject: Re: httpd as part of the system. Message-ID: <199503290307.WAA27916@grendel.csc.smith.edu> In-Reply-To: <19824.796077849@freefall.cdrom.com> from "Jordan K. Hubbard" at Mar 24, 95 12:44:09 pm
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Zowie! I stop reading mail for a couple days (vacation) and 160+ plus messages about httpd, lynx and bloat. Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > I would like to propose that we add the following two components to our > system in an effort to both: > > A) Improve the infrastructure that our docs team can rely on. > B) Make FreeBSD a better "out of box" Internet solution. > > 1. httpd. I don't really know which variant is best, though John Fieber > (our Docmaster) has a preference which I'm perfectly happy to follow > (I think it's the CERN httpd). > > 2. lynx. This would give users the ability to browse any HTML doc we > supply. Mosaic will become an optional package for the X users. Since I pushed for using SGML for the Tutorials and FAQ, and proposed an httpd/lynx combination the distribution, I suppose I ought to say something. The reasons for using SGML as the base format for Tutorials and the FAQ have been debated at great length here and elsewhere in the past and I don't feel compelled to repeat them. The quick is that SGML much more flexible in the long run than other formats. The downside is that the freely distributable tools for working with SGML are a bit immature, but that is only a short term problem. The contenders for viewing the tutorials and FAQ are (for the moment ignoring X): more, info, lynx. I don't think it takes too much thought to realize that lynx has some pretty clear advantages over the first two. Specifically, it has a much easier learning curve, it is "internet ready", and managing the documents is much easier. To top it off, if a user doesn't like lynx, they can just substitute their own favorite browser. Now for slightly more sticky issue of the httpd server. From: Paul Richards <paul@isl.cf.ac.uk> >This has nothing to do with our docs issue. Our docs should not be using any >cgi scripts. Our online www pages might but that's an issue for the web >manager on www.freebsd.org and does not mean we need to ship a server with >the base system. > >My main point is that we should not require a server to read our documentation >and most definately our docs should not use server dependant styles. Last first, server dependant styles is a moot issue. You could switch the server on freefall from the current NCSA to CERN and I might not even notice (for a while). To address the first issue, if we have the requirement that our documentation be readable without a server, we are locked into a very static document system. An analogy would be the manual pages without groff. We would have to provide formatted and postscript versions to keep people happy and what do you do if you want to add something to /usr/local/man? Having groff allows us to create ascii and postscript on the fly and new man pages automatically become part of the system. Having an httpd server allows generation of HTML on the fly, be it a a manual page that you just added to /usr/local/man, a form for sumbitting a bug report, the results of a keyword search on the tutorials or anything else you could imagine. Of course, if we don't actually implement those things, it doesn't make a lot of sense to include the server. However, even if it doesn't happen in 2.1, I believe there will be plenty of justification for a server in the near future. A rough outline for the help system: A user types `help' which runs lynx which defaults to http://localhost/, which is /usr/share/help/index.html (or something like that): FreeBSD Help * How to use Help * The FreeBSD Manual * The GNU Info Pages * Frequently Asked Questions with Answers * FreeBSD Tutorials * Glossary * Command Index * Subject Index * Search Help * Internet Resources Of these, the FreeBSD Manual (man pages) and the search would require a server. As for which server is the best, as a webmaster myself, I'm a little ashamed to say that I'm not sure. I'm much more familiar with the CERN server but the NCSA server does adhere to the KISS principle a little better. Freefall is running the NCSA server but James Robinson was responsible for that. :) Jordan K. Hubbard writes: > I also know that the bloatists will scream, but all I can offer in way Heck, if FreeBSD expanded to 2 or 3 CD-ROMS, The Even NT crowd might sit up and pay attention! (Wow! 3 CD-ROMS!! It must be hot!!!) > Other than screams of "bloat! bloat!", any comments? I say bring lynx in, but maybe hold off on httpd until it seems pretty sure that the features of the help system that would use it will be implemented. -john === jfieber@cs.smith.edu ================================================ =================================== Come up and be a kite! --K. Bush ===
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