From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 17 12:19:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7B034D6BE for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:19:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49n3ym03n9z3TbK for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:19:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.8.33.9]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1N5VLY-1inpiz2n5G-016y8S; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:18:59 +0200 Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:18:57 +0200 From: Polytropon To: malaizhichun@tom.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Why does FreeBSD not use the Linux kernel? Message-Id: <20200617141857.b208232a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <3a48ab1ab198c330400be3e942f921f2cd3c3e11.camel@tom.com> References: <3a48ab1ab198c330400be3e942f921f2cd3c3e11.camel@tom.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:4gQBZoYH4G3+W8mUD2MADOS2R7VUKbsXpBWO/SQA/biUjBbPSTX 14H7vaYIlYwTV1lxTAj6FqFgOucqHs3ynGQEgaj9tOz4QbOA1S+nT/Cas0SUO/w/YZmLHPi dsrDDxPbT/vykc16q4q7xVqHTKhRzB4r5RE9HU4Ua/rBriMMtyrqacDqkpq+nNlH+1311MK /3IWwY887nnYgDZtfvbkg== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:Yp1GNcT+lSs=:metQMIgLXRLuPIf71gvvRK yZSHf7KRknN4708ustOysCDRZMWRl0MF6HtdKk/nSqAytOaBRV9R7sSPo6nJVkQjhsiK75MbR dij2ZoR63pLOTX7QVRdlS1orItPSsjXG9THJOnEU/5Fw8nWQprZZMpWdhXmq6yDRX8uhV9r+K Mm/Cf9JPy4TYSa9G/unIK5BiXqgokq5QwhCqcCKKbS7tEZXanUHRxa0D1uq/eI8PzradhFoes wt2U9w1dVvoM7hIQ11FfaZZcpbLyG6fyLa8+PJKTHY78ny81Y7J3Y2PENyjAQfgR68NgyHw+p JFW8Z/MOeMCyXyZNtJ0/grw8yInBRbnuP48bxsHC8P+hsjyEYeGoFotXIMIBlX9+ajG3wLS6b 4n6O5x6ZXKXNQ2gbEp35OQrb92klDyYJdVjPEnmaRCxGgevB2zVEVlkBCM3dbbwEVMlbmmlE2 TDGhnutoMgd8v6RfimenVt1HRPZW0aRbRH4ujpOJs8grhlFitBlTf8l8xkhll9tnd8JzrIVVs x8pcbrcom3lfUkMZHUBQg5O1CHxaauvCGrwKwtyfUq9xDX+nc3N/DrqhtvFgmSxYznQT1hJ3W oiX9MMmO1gD9macmBb1j5ES9Si4OgU7Q6ta3x2CYesqtRpZKp/5Qd+tAuFc3v3YbOSotkcqan aE6QDH1Jovtn09H7+xkOBsppnzwbNRRZBQBIIgkWH9c93h9tNgXAWosuCIVwIEqR4j/Taqgoz LwXjtYptyMo/Ck1SoyyeI3dWH+7kklwcrNFJAePMgM19gw3A7IIWrB01RfIFBCdgxjD5BoXwh u3cCx/ZunjmjoARq3T++gDh8kk14l0+gwB3z6g6YR7T25LJ6gg= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49n3ym03n9z3TbK X-Spamd-Bar: ++++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.10) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [4.86 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.27)[-0.269]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[tom.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.8.33.9:received]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(0.82)[0.823]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.91)[0.906]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 12:19:13 -0000 On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:33:25 +0800, kindu smith wrote: > Why does FreeBSD not use the Linux kernel? The structure of FreeBSD is > very good, such as the startup and directory structure, and the user > island program. The only shortcoming is poor hardware support. This is > mainly due to the lack of drivers provided by the kernel. While there are certain basic drivers in the kernel, the majority of drivers is provided by loadable kernel modules, either developed by the FreeBSD team itself, or available from the ports collection. They use interfaces provided by the kernel. NB: Terminus technicus: "userland". :-) > The Linux > kernel is assisted by developers around the world. Changing to the > Linux kernel can make up for this shortcoming. For the system > architecture, package management pkg, and user island programs can > still use the original FreeBSD. But in fact, that wouldn't be FreeBSD anymore. When we say "Linux", we usually refer to a "GNU/Linux distribution", which means the Linux kernel + GNU userland + preinstalled and preconfigured packages, depending on the distribution's choice. The problem that occurs when FreeBSD is deprived of the FreeBSD kernel and it is replaced by the Linux kernel is that the result is no longer FreeBSD: It's a something/Linux. That "something" would be... yes, what would it be? FreeBSD userland that no longer works because the Linux kernel is not compatible? By the way, there was (is?) a GNU/kFreeBSD project where a GNU userland is combined with a FreeBSD kernel. Interesting, isn't it? Assuming that the FreeBSD kernel is so "inferior"... ;-) > Among the unix-like systems, the most popular except macos is ubuntu. > This does not mean that ubuntu is good enough. In my opinion, it is _exactly_ the proof that Ubuntu is good enough. :-) > It is still very poor > compared to archlinux and other distros. Depends. Arch Linux is not designed for novice users primarily. While it offers a Linux experience that is, more or less, quite comparable to a UNIX experience, it's not what "Joe Q. Sixpack" would expect - "too complicated"; this is where Ubuntu delivers a much more welcoming experience. > But it is still the most > popular because it takes a road from users, servers, to the cloud. FreeBSD is a multi-purpose operating system; it is _one_ OS to be used in appliances, desktops, laptops, servers, VMs ("cloud instances"), and you don't have to choose a different "distribution" if you want to move from one field of application to the other. In my experience, only the "lower level Linusi" offer such a wide range of possibilities, while "advanced Linusi" are already taylored to fit exactly one of those fields mentioned above. So the Ubuntu that you run on your home laptop is hardly suitable to run as a "cloud instance" to process heavy database load. > That > is to first increase the user's utilization rate, then increase the > popularity, and then seek the popularity of the server and cloud > fields. Isn't that basically the same way FreeBSD also goes? > I think the reason why FreeBSD has reduced the number of users is > because it does not take care of the experience of ordinary users, and > it takes the opposite path from a server, cloud to users. As I mentioned, this doesn't seem to be the case. However, you can hardly tell anything about the number of people who use FreeBSD. It's quite possible that the Linux system you're using that the moment on your home PC (assumption) connects to the Internet using a device that runs FreeBSD - and you don't know about it! So it's quite possible (but cannot really be proven) that the "usage share" (derived from "market share") is much higher than one might think. As with any operating system, users and admins are involved. Especially admins choose FreeBSD for specific reasons, and if you ask for those reasons, they can explain them in a technical way, rather than just "No Sir, I don't like it.", and sometimes they will choose FreeBSD over Linux for valid reasons. They do so because they judge from a technical point of view, instead of looking at the shiny packaging paper. :-) > Positioning > such an excellent operating system as just server usage has greatly > reduced its popularity. Again, I don't think this is correct. FreeBSD has been positioned for decades as a multi-purpose OS, and has been in use as such for many many years. Trying to simply exchange the kernel doesn't lead anywhere, I would say. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...