From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 27 19:58:10 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5D80106564A for ; Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:58:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from frank@esperance-linux.co.uk) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (asmtp3.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.159]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3EC5F8FC0C for ; Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:58:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from asmtp3.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p7RJw7XD027388; Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:58:08 +0100 Received: from orange.esperance-linux.co.uk (host-92-22-213-152.as13285.net [92.22.213.152]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp3.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p7RJw7TK027379; Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:58:07 +0100 Received: by orange.esperance-linux.co.uk (Postfix, from userid 1001) id F056533C1F; Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:58:06 +0100 (BST) Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 20:58:06 +0100 From: Frank Shute To: Evan Busch Message-ID: <20110827195806.GA9802@orange.esperance-linux.co.uk> References: <16851_1313817220_4E4F4284_16851_6517_1_D9B37353831173459FDAA836D3B43499C521886E@WADPMBXV0.waddell.com> <20110825043208.fe201707.freebsd@edvax.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Face: *}~{PHnDTzvXPe'wl_-f%!@+r5; VLhb':*DsX%wEOPg\fDrXWQJf|2\,92"DdS%63t*BHDyQ|OWo@Gfjcd72eaN!4%NE{0]p)ihQ1MyFNtWL X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 8.2-STABLE amd64 X-Organisation: 'shute.org.uk' Cc: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" Subject: Re: A quality operating system X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Frank Shute List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 19:58:10 -0000 --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:56:16PM -0500, Evan Busch wrote: > > I can see this will be important here: >=20 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma >=20 > On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > But allow me to say > > that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_ > > way, you should always bring examples and name _concrete_ > > points you're criticizing, instead of just mentioning > > wide ranges of "this doesn't conform to my interpretation > > of what 'professional' should look like". >=20 > The problem with your statement is that it does not allow for general > critique, which is also needed. If something shows up in more than one > place, it is a general critique. You haven't shown *one* example of inadequate or confusing documentation.=20 >=20 > > In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal > > clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply > > have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use > > the documentation. >=20 > See the Wikipedia page above -- the problem isn't one of user > competence, but of poorly-written documentation that is fundamentally > disorganized. >=20 > Have you looked at any of the documentation coming out of Redmond right n= ow? >=20 > How do you think FreeBSD's documentation stands up to that? FreeBSD documentation blows away anything Redmond gives you. Where's the documentation for Windows Explorer for Vista on microsoft.com? A link will do. >=20 >=20 > > Different kinds of users have different preferences. Some > > like to use the web, like to use Wikis and discussion boards. > > Others like to use structured web pages. Again, other like > > web pages too, but want to have as much information in _one_ > > (long) page. And there are those who do not want to depend > > on the web - those like man pages. >=20 > The question isn't form, but content. >=20 > > If you're used to some specific _way_ of documentation, you > > will maybe value anything that's _different_ from that way > > as being inferior, non-professional, or less helpful. >=20 > I think I'm talking about professional level documentation, not a > specific "style." By your own admission you don't even use FreeBSD so how on earth can you constructively criticise? Answer: you can't. >=20 > > Also keep in mind that especially for developers, the SOURCE > > CODE also is an important piece of documentation. Here FreeBSD > > is very good, compared to other systems. >=20 > We're talking end-user documentation here. In a lot of cases the source IS end-user documentation? BTW, how does that compare with Redmond? >=20 > > Here the "one size fits all" problem arises. It's really hard > > to make documentation "for everybody". >=20 > I disagree. It's very clear what must be done because multiple archetypes= exist. Well do it. Put up or shut up. >=20 > > Note the presence of ":-)" and the abilities of english native > > speakers who are much more able to express "between the lines" > > than I am, for example. >=20 > If so, it's just them trying to cover up the inherently defensive and > reactionary nature of their comments. They're inherently defensive and reactionary because you're trolling. >=20 > Would they send such an email on a business list? Who cares? It's not a business list. >=20 > > You can "predict" that everywhere. Just go to any halfway > > specialized setting and make claims about something not > > meeting your requirements >=20 > I've never had this problem when the claims have been stated > professionally -- only here. OK, so you'll be able to provide links then? Thought not. --=20 Frank Contact info: http://www.shute.org.uk/misc/contact.html --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.16 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAk5ZTE0ACgkQHduKvUAgeK5OkwCeId4KZVTjdPtA0436SU3B6ABa mcsAn0jL6XFsSBgcnVcVm07UgDTHSROn =tUQr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --bg08WKrSYDhXBjb5--