From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat May 23 06:39:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D0772F936F for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 06:39:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49TYbk6GkZz4QYL for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 06:38:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Received: from bucksport.safeport.com (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]) by bucksport.safeport.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 04N6cpEE026813 for ; Sat, 23 May 2020 02:38:51 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from doug@safeport.com) Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 02:38:51 -0400 (EDT) From: Doug Denault To: freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: updating a FreeBSD workstation Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (BSF 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.4.3 (bucksport.safeport.com [198.74.231.101]); Sat, 23 May 2020 02:38:52 -0400 (EDT) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49TYbk6GkZz4QYL X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of doug@safeport.com designates 198.74.231.101 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=doug@safeport.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.55 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.51)[-0.511]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:198.74.231.101]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[safeport.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.03)[0.032]; NEURAL_SPAM_LONG(0.03)[0.033]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11288, ipnet:198.74.228.0/22, country:US]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 May 2020 06:39:00 -0000 Thoughts/questions on updating a FreeBSD desktop. This comes out of the "FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life" thread. It seems to me there are two distinct sets of users: server and desktop. There have to be a few like me with a foot in each camp. My server problem was largely of my own making (no serial console and the data center was a 4+ hour drive at the wrong time of day). Solved that one. For me I have have no real issues keeping production servers update to date. My main issues have been with MySQL and PHP, not FreeBSD. The desktop is a whole different thing. My solution has been every so often start fresh because I can not afford the time to risk a non-working desktop. When the ports moved to being based on the release head I had high hopes. I think I did not understand what that actually meant. My environment is xfce with enough stuff to give me something close to my partner's OS/X system. In addition to the "normal" stuff for me this means having, firefox, chrome, libreoffice, mysql and tigervnc. This ends up with 625 (or so) ports and packages. I did my current system in December. In this environment, I have never been able to update firefox or the xfce desktop/panel components to correct bugs or get a new feature. The EOL thread prompted me to figure out the common libraries. This turns out to be a much smaller set that I would have thought. One problem is the list below is likely not a static set. For my Dec 11.3 build the common libraries are: -- xfce :: firefox -- -- thunar :: firefox -- atk-2 28 1 atk-2 28 1 cairo-1 16 0,2 cairo-1 16 0,2 desktop-file-utils-0 24 desktop-file-utils-0 24 gdk-pixbuf2-2 40 0 gdk-pixbuf2-2 40 0 gettext-runtime-0 20 1 gettext-runtime-0 20 1 glib-2 56 3_6,1 glib-2 56 3_6,1 gtk3-3 24 10 jpeg-turbo-2 0 3 libX11-1 6 9,1 libXdamage-1 1 5 libXext-1 3 4,1 libXfixes-5 0 3_2 pango-1 42 4_3 pango-1 42 4_3 startup-notification-0 12_4 So for example, when glib-2 56 3_6,1 is updated to glib-2 56 3_6,2 or later, I can not update using pkg or ports. So I guess the question is, is this a Make file issue, or is the next version really not compatible? As long as the answer is, either who knows, or it's the same thing, I am pretty much forced to follow my pattern of all or nothing updating. This has not really been an issue for me, I've had no security issues as these systems have always been behind a router and I also use a basic ipfw configuration. So all of this is to ask is the update problem totally a technical one, or a natural consequence stemming from how the FreeBSD project organized? _____ Douglas Denault http://www.safeport.com doug@safeport.com Voice: 301-217-9220 Fax: 301-217-9277