From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Feb 16 08:42:45 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39154258157 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) Received: from sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic309-20.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.184.146]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 48L0xJ24nXz4LGy for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com) X-YMail-OSG: ZhU2LDAVM1nMtOghT0XS0AWkJBRxltz8tNefl7pVrsz_f1bZm.2NR1FEXd3Bb.I P33lfEDu2qUa.dMPliuU55aL2LEz_ney6ixXJ4fAL__W2iueihu95ET4WHztCVeA1qHAP2jytUP4 Pc2TsmYpVxtq35O1TOYFqnur17Wh89HiBZDKnsfveFVOrzvLaZfr6TJHgOwwI8ui7jdTOgb99Uli GejDihUkMlm008_dRSRuQY7vfRTx5VFTnRwKnGOah4176f.9qWm2ck7Y1k_bCdYIJCFkbmuRIYua gN3jEMgWu1r_TGEMQbxMMdtkUaaT5BmmOjTFbAYwBeT.oJSYMvUEG0M8lzxHSSYQhiZ37h3qkq3S V7TghUdTFYHDVw_jftjkFiQF3CT3AU20vLnrZRQPZiVNjUA8n.2HJz4KyNZ5VKZFbGbyRRTBtaRY SMp4YcI8KM.QyutQuDT5esd4sTjc1AapiSLrPtjk3MUi3jjfko3gjO1iRrm33BSVBFN89lmmSpeI UeYLcnouBEkXAlHDT3j1esoaTgUyp07wV.iW3odrbqZWpoH5vYhbcksKjbzHwFAfTqanB8gGxmeo DtkhUijSU6reZpxMDY7tQDKCmOyaD3W5HDzzu5GC7Q..2k1a7JYoDY6uACURHDfeq5cqFzILL10O axUy3bSWBkUZYNCUuiRrnirRyWoou1QzOSaA6kDgIfDL2tnHakgp_b176_oQnVg2BsbDQ0AnLO45 tgIaxdSf6yq7nvMf_J6qpMDbbtx8nxlKoZwTi8W51XSF8BRRlOyN0TYM6F8Xq5GRatOM4CRpqxir FtcntR_6rs5VdxU37VIV6F3Dk_5GweTknIJnzxFSIWr0DsJuj6DasA1nzlCYZAZ2BLfAxJj1goBJ L4I7nXhs8C3yZ7WfhzjlLhG2IGohV0Vayio9nK4_6DppKDC0XqqzbpOt9yj7EiBuIKo8dTYFzxlv yUSIxzN25WNLsULrDtv6hcFGEqj5g4fRZbzVdSEwUl6EB5.24pm2Y0T3xiI5rGKzGrUEtd5kkd4B T2EwSFqtB0SFsd7bxFSNZrC_Vje3iP6n32N0UEf68MpqOPnLrj.fmop5PH.v0NXVCNGpEUxvVJiU RBhF12.y446JvkrG8d2Blw0Bvwsawm3bw8oYdUCYAMietBslR6WkadYgyKwSO4HpMyPqyJZ0AS9b oZ3EAolQNFHhKUPonm.b8rtevP9apOJg74uIVr_tsNX0CPzuDsxYbNdnnwYf._Ywonxy9Mn5SHJc nk17egsqUSWwNIROz3KXmrXQ03xxnvg7ekc05WSKn0Wj1AEgG_TjkhOaa6LyN8NrN6zjR1OZ9dtG vCtYm5oYVHONrxNuURjJ5elpAQG1cdA9RZh.I.hOVCj1HY10TAWdtlX2VkNnvERQyXw0CVmLtwh3 GCVLJuryUClyfV0Ai3zwvz_YYwKKvhAs- Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic309.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:42 +0000 Received: by smtp407.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 3046107ae8921feaa55e54a486245a6d; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pj1-f47.google.com with SMTP id fa20so5839958pjb.1 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 00:42:40 -0800 (PST) X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX5D+pQlJRLeADQTeE+UJfCBAM3OhDyqxMKJydL6wE0/cmJBpV+ 2FrdlgdUVj7wZEIPw2VRDBcbCloFHwiZoa/oEJI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxYycOhh537QcXvPV1KDy1d3/GBy01y7wt1HM4lGDa/oU3tWyEb3iIagGpGJtHGlw4fqWecRVIEh3tA1BB6Wsc= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:8a88:: with SMTP id p8mr10819999plo.179.1581842559819; Sun, 16 Feb 2020 00:42:39 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202002120724.01C7OcSW005991@sdf.org> <202002160656.01G6uBYm008146@sdf.org> In-Reply-To: <202002160656.01G6uBYm008146@sdf.org> From: Ottavio Caruso Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:23 +0000 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: Message-ID: Subject: Re: terminology and history (was Re: Re updating BIOS) To: Scott Bennett Cc: steve@sohara.org, freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15199 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/1.8.0_181) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 48L0xJ24nXz4LGy X-Spamd-Bar: -- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.31 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.92)[-0.920,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.69)[-0.693,0]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[146.184.163.66.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36646, ipnet:66.163.184.0/21, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com,pr0f3ss0r1492@yahoo.com]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (3.64), ipnet: 66.163.184.0/21(1.15), asn: 36646(0.92), country: US(-0.05)]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com.dwl.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2020 08:42:45 -0000 On Sun, 16 Feb 2020 at 06:56, Scott Bennett wrote: > > Ottavio Caruso wrote: > > > > The "amateurs from the ham radio community" are (and at least were > > back in the 70s) much more skilled than you paint them. The first form > > Really? That was not my experience in the United States. Here there > appeared to be very little overlap between computer programmers and ham radio > operators. I'm not surprised that you'have jumped to this conclusion because: 1) Define "computer programmer" in 2010 and in the 70/80s. Back then, computer programmers were an elite that programmed mostly in low level languages. They were a tiny minority in any field of society and they probably were also in the ham community, who, at the time, were mostly ex-military or analogue RF engineers. 2) Like I said before, the first "workable" form or wireless data traffic was AX-25, which was invented by hams for hams, but before that, even in 50s and 60s, hams used old teletypes and protocols like rtty and baudot (still used today), so it's fair to say that their IT knowledge was far superior than the average Joey Bag-of-donuts. I grew up in Italy in the 70s. I wasn't involved with amateur radio (my father was). Hobbyist magazines were full of EPROM projects to build custom TNCs and home-made rudimentary computers based on the Z80. Very few hobbyists could afford the DOS/IBM-PC crap. My schoolmate's father bought one in 1982 for 5M Italian liras; that was basically a year's wage of an office worker. -- Ottavio Caruso