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Date:      Sun, 7 Aug 2016 03:08:11 +0800
From:      Julian Elischer <julian@freebsd.org>
To:        Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@MIT.EDU>, Baptiste Daroussin <bapt@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog@FreeBSD.org>, Andrey Chernov <ache@FreeBSD.org>, Mark Martinec <Mark.Martinec+freebsd@ijs.si>, freebsd-current@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: date(1) default format changed between 10.3 and 11.0-BETA3
Message-ID:  <3b68be24-7ec8-08be-53f4-a4b088840c35@freebsd.org>
In-Reply-To: <alpine.GSO.1.10.1608061107470.5272@multics.mit.edu>
References:  <dc9483611fd37e051fb68532daf10066@mailbox.ijs.si> <3629a441-ee6d-2407-fa13-5ebd8db8d802@freebsd.org> <000c29ee0f3dbd1d433c565023d69e25@mailbox.ijs.si> <a260a332-0c30-2338-bdd8-840524e8bfd8@freebsd.org> <f51cd89227047ff9249d9ecd68cf1646@mailbox.ijs.si> <279e9b67-da23-cdd6-3a77-b084ad8269eb@freebsd.org> <e851f0064ec13ff99d64e63b74f10d58@mailbox.ijs.si> <4a454eef-55ae-b90d-4441-2aa9708fc747@freebsd.org> <20160806041536.GL86883@eureka.lemis.com> <20160806100053.5fpf27pcgona7czp@ivaldir.etoilebsd.net> <alpine.GSO.1.10.1608061107470.5272@multics.mit.edu>

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On 6/08/2016 11:09 PM, Benjamin Kaduk wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Aug 2016, Baptiste Daroussin wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Aug 06, 2016 at 02:15:36PM +1000, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
>>> On Friday,  5 August 2016 at 18:56:33 +0300, Andrey A. Chernov wrote:
>>>> On 05.08.2016 18:44, Mark Martinec wrote:
>>>>> On 2016-08-05 17:23, Andrey Chernov wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> POSIX does say that the default format should be the same
>>>>> as with "+%a %b %e %H:%M:%S %Z %Y".
>>>>> It also says that %a and %b are locale's abbreviated names.
>>>> It is true for _POSIX_ locale only, as I already say. en_US.* is not
>>>> POSIX or C locale.
>>> It still violates POLA.
>>>
>> I really do not think that it violates POLA fiven that the behaviour you are
>> expecting is still available in the default configurtion that is still POSIX.
> Regardless, at a new major release is precisely when it is permissible to
> break POLA.
switching from short form to long form is more than a POLA..  short 
form has a specific fixed layout
and feeding a long form string into it will break things.
>
>> Set LC_TIME to C and then you are back on your behaviour (and this is the
>> default when you install FreeBSD).
>>
>> locales should be seen as tzdata for exemple, they are a moving target
>> complicated to handle for every locale we do support: 78 for 11.0-RELEASE and
>> 193 if we do count the encoding variants. locales are updated very often (for
>> exemple cldr unicode make a new release of the data every 8 month or so)
> As I understand it, your change will improve the maintainability of
> locales in FreeBSD in the future, which justifies a POLA break at the
> release boundary.
>
> -Ben
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