From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Wed Jun 17 17:43:00 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD63F3551D1 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:43:00 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lobo@bsd.com.br) Received: from mail-io1-xd30.google.com (mail-io1-xd30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49nC8M21MSz47Y0 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:42:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from lobo@bsd.com.br) Received: by mail-io1-xd30.google.com with SMTP id o5so3793491iow.8 for ; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:42:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsd.com.br; s=capeta; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=dkPwfaeGUjS6NF26uor3VKZ5uGdrXU1iyq6RTmxmkQA=; b=EXZfEvgfZ1ROHE6W8oPwk6wKJGMNXisKPId8fOgQOg1/IiQ5/ciZJHvExHkWA8R0yB dLduV8h4FoLRniK2aGbagnrNXrForbLC2OVKmI957r8FbcsvtK9dCMGcoUCuEQci1sn/ prRibZ8TJxNCma4AP9swe08kRaRs/cgWMD9Ec= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=dkPwfaeGUjS6NF26uor3VKZ5uGdrXU1iyq6RTmxmkQA=; b=l7C0ivzsvXX8O2r0Xpz22dF0hbqMEcYkVObdnQ4lzbYjyC/QLV5pjwpj6dZsMOh4iF mfgFTdy8JSWNDjNM8FiF6WeRFD1p7cUhA1tQF9p4PUl/1E2QlaE8e2JAaeeuRT/kfPGU UhDL+/NK+BX0e3mQZzbFdRnDbC5H2qE278PGfkGeu34FxejgU6TzuT0S5ZkzhFNsWAWC YpHKaYKpZ2p7XdqPy+o1nFIuoV7ShHHwP1vQpibDxHxMHFmyqLUKb4bXP+ryEU5khiPf Tj6++F6m9gEcPxJyyIE7MSzic/VketgnypIcx9lorLHWlRvMQIGs1jotci/Vwj5sybVi UrWA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5311+qb9m162QT2YK12LgKNUiRMRpYCtAC4lxiFo4ePoas+8+z3S Xk1UrGDpaA7Pi5vlEqsamemJF73q5E0AUxN5VAjNQa6dfLg= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxx4i7b6lFIAf8Jw8vC19PYD/ATwv2tA5MOlUGOLcbhyIOlHF9m/7LX87qbVqZJHp1+RDz67aCtOFAFUNqoXuY= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:9e51:: with SMTP id i17mr568438ioi.8.1592415777530; Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:42:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3a48ab1ab198c330400be3e942f921f2cd3c3e11.camel@tom.com> <20200617141857.b208232a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200617141857.b208232a.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Mario Lobo Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 14:42:46 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why does FreeBSD not use the Linux kernel? To: "freebsd-questions@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49nC8M21MSz47Y0 X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsd.com.br header.s=capeta header.b=EXZfEvgf; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of lobo@bsd.com.br designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=lobo@bsd.com.br X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.32 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.18)[-0.176]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsd.com.br:s=capeta]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsd.com.br]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.93)[-0.935]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.30)[0.295]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsd.com.br:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d30:from]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2020 17:43:00 -0000 On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 9:19 AM Polytropon wrote: > On Wed, 17 Jun 2020 11:33:25 +0800, kindu smith wrote: > > Why does FreeBSD not use the Linux kernel? The structure of FreeBSD is > > very good, such as the startup and directory structure, and the user > > island program. The only shortcoming is poor hardware support. This is > > mainly due to the lack of drivers provided by the kernel. > > While there are certain basic drivers in the kernel, the > majority of drivers is provided by loadable kernel modules, > either developed by the FreeBSD team itself, or available > from the ports collection. They use interfaces provided by > the kernel. > > NB: Terminus technicus: "userland". :-) > > > > > The Linux > > kernel is assisted by developers around the world. Changing to the > > Linux kernel can make up for this shortcoming. For the system > > architecture, package management pkg, and user island programs can > > still use the original FreeBSD. > > But in fact, that wouldn't be FreeBSD anymore. > > When we say "Linux", we usually refer to a "GNU/Linux distribution", > which means the Linux kernel + GNU userland + preinstalled and > preconfigured packages, depending on the distribution's choice. > The problem that occurs when FreeBSD is deprived of the FreeBSD > kernel and it is replaced by the Linux kernel is that the result > is no longer FreeBSD: It's a something/Linux. That "something" > would be... yes, what would it be? FreeBSD userland that no > longer works because the Linux kernel is not compatible? > > By the way, there was (is?) a GNU/kFreeBSD project where a GNU > userland is combined with a FreeBSD kernel. Interesting, isn't > it? Assuming that the FreeBSD kernel is so "inferior"... ;-) > > > > > Among the unix-like systems, the most popular except macos is ubuntu. > > This does not mean that ubuntu is good enough. > > In my opinion, it is _exactly_ the proof that Ubuntu is good > enough. :-) > > > > > It is still very poor > > compared to archlinux and other distros. > > Depends. Arch Linux is not designed for novice users primarily. > While it offers a Linux experience that is, more or less, quite > comparable to a UNIX experience, it's not what "Joe Q. Sixpack" > would expect - "too complicated"; this is where Ubuntu delivers > a much more welcoming experience. > > > > > But it is still the most > > popular because it takes a road from users, servers, to the cloud. > > FreeBSD is a multi-purpose operating system; it is _one_ OS to > be used in appliances, desktops, laptops, servers, VMs ("cloud > instances"), and you don't have to choose a different "distribution" > if you want to move from one field of application to the other. > In my experience, only the "lower level Linusi" offer such a > wide range of possibilities, while "advanced Linusi" are already > taylored to fit exactly one of those fields mentioned above. > So the Ubuntu that you run on your home laptop is hardly suitable > to run as a "cloud instance" to process heavy database load. > > > > > That > > is to first increase the user's utilization rate, then increase the > > popularity, and then seek the popularity of the server and cloud > > fields. > > Isn't that basically the same way FreeBSD also goes? > > > > > I think the reason why FreeBSD has reduced the number of users is > > because it does not take care of the experience of ordinary users, and > > it takes the opposite path from a server, cloud to users. > > As I mentioned, this doesn't seem to be the case. However, you > can hardly tell anything about the number of people who use > FreeBSD. It's quite possible that the Linux system you're using > that the moment on your home PC (assumption) connects to the > Internet using a device that runs FreeBSD - and you don't know > about it! So it's quite possible (but cannot really be proven) > that the "usage share" (derived from "market share") is much > higher than one might think. > > As with any operating system, users and admins are involved. > Especially admins choose FreeBSD for specific reasons, and > if you ask for those reasons, they can explain them in a > technical way, rather than just "No Sir, I don't like it.", > and sometimes they will choose FreeBSD over Linux for valid > reasons. They do so because they judge from a technical point > of view, instead of looking at the shiny packaging paper. :-) > > > > > Positioning > > such an excellent operating system as just server usage has greatly > > reduced its popularity. > > Again, I don't think this is correct. FreeBSD has been > positioned for decades as a multi-purpose OS, and has been > in use as such for many many years. > > Trying to simply exchange the kernel doesn't lead anywhere, > I would say. > > > > -- > Polytropon > Magdeburg, Germany > Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 > Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to " > freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > Poly; Your politeness, articulation and reasoning commands agreement. +1 to everything you said. -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since version 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio.... YET!!]