From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Thu May 14 22:19:24 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D7C72E205B; Thu, 14 May 2020 22:19:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (static-24-113-41-81.wavecable.com [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "Let's Encrypt Authority X3" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49NQtz6H4Jz41sg; Thu, 14 May 2020 22:19:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (localhost [IPv6:0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id 04EMJXOq044241 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 14 May 2020 15:19:40 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@BSDforge.com) X-Mailer: Cypht MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , , Kyle Evans In-Reply-To: <202005142017.04EKH0aA093503@fire.js.berklix.net> From: Chris Reply-To: bsd-lists@BSDforge.com To: "Julian H. Stacey" Subject: Re: [HEADSUP] Disallowing read() of a directory fd Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 15:19:39 -0700 Message-Id: <1a951a29e3ca52c0ebd823f4a4437412@udns.ultimatedns.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49NQtz6H4Jz41sg X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.09 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.13)[-0.129,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.96)[-0.962,0]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US]; local_wl_ip(0.00)[24.113.41.81] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 15 May 2020 06:32:54 +0000 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 May 2020 22:19:24 -0000 On Thu, 14 May 2020 22:17:00 +0200 Julian H=2E Stacey jhs@berklix=2Ecom said > Kyle Evans wrote: > > Hi, > >=20 > > This is a heads up, given that I'm completely flipping our historical > > behavior- I intend to commit this review in a couple days' time > > without substantial objection: https://reviews=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/D24596 > >=20 > > With this, FreeBSD 13 will not allow read() of a directory fd, which > > could have previously returned some data from the underlying > > filesystem in no particular standardized format=2E > >=20 > > This is a still-standards-compliant switch from one > > implementation-defined behavior to another that's already been adopted > > in various other popular kernels, to include OpenBSD, MacOS, and > > Linux=2E Completely different file systems=2E This is a non-reason/excuse to impose such a change=2E > >=20 > > Worth noting is that there's not really one largely-compelling reasons > > to switch this after so many years (unless you find yourself that > > irate when you accidentally `cat` a directory), but there are some > > benefits which are briefly discussed in the commentary around the > > review along with the history of the current behavior=2E > >=20 > > This change also simplifies filesystem implementations to some extent=2E > >=20 > > Thanks, > >=20 > > Kyle Evans >=20 > There is ZERO need for a spurious change at 2 days notice after 42+ years= ! +2! >=20 > "cat =2E" as been supported since Unix V6 1978 or earlier,=20 > no problem, even occasionaly useful=2E >=20 > Most FreeBSD users wont have heard of https://reviews=2Efreebsd=2Eorg/D24596 > (& there's only 5 other people's opinions there, apart from proposer, > & skimming through the impression is far from un-qualified approval=2E >=20 >=20 > Do not force all FreeBSD users towards gratuitous change for personal > preference for Linux behaviour=2E Switch to Linux, Or hack a > personalised shell on BSD that does what you want when you type > "cat =2E" If it's later widely popular, use it as proof to re-propose=2E No > Rush=2E This bikeshed is already the correct color=2E Please leave it as is=2E >=20 > A bigger issue is due notice procedure, & respect to FreeBSD stability of > code > & users expectations of predictability=2E > Unwarned playing about would detract from FreeBSD's business image=2E Amen to that=2E >=20 > Cheers > -- > Julian Stacey, Consultant Systems Engineer, BSD Linux > http://berklix=2Ecom/jhs/ > http://www=2Eberklix=2Eorg/corona/#masks Tie 2 handkerchiefs or 1 pillow cas= e=2E=20 > Jobs & economy hit by Corona to be hit again by Crash Brexit 31st Dec=2E 20= 20 --Chris