From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 20 8: 7:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (hydrant.intranova.net [209.201.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id D94DD37BBB1 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:07:27 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 87217 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 16:07:31 -0000 Received: from localhost (user18227@127.0.0.1) by hydrant.intranova.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 16:07:31 -0000 Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 11:07:31 -0500 (EST) From: Omachonu Ogali To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: US secret agents work at Microsoft: French Intelligence (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Another reason we shouldn't use Windows... -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://tribune.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: C8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 03:06:01 -0800 (PST) From: William Knowles To: DC-Stuff Subject: US secret agents work at Microsoft: French Intelligence http://www.theage.com.au/breaking/0002/19/A27800-2000Feb19.shtml Source: AFP | Published: Saturday February 19, 7:44 AM PARIS, Feb 18 - A French intelligence report today accused US secret agents of working with computer giant Microsoft to develop software allowing Washington to spy on communications around the world. The report, drawn up by the Strategic Affairs Delegation (DAS), the intelligence arm of the French Defence Ministry, was quoted in today's edition of the news-letter Le Monde du Renseignement (Intelligence World). Written by a senior officer at the DAS, the report claims agents from the National Security Agency (NSA) helped install secret programmes on Microsoft software, currently in use in 90 per cent of computers. According to the report there was a 'strong suspicion' of a lack of security fed by insistent rumours about the existence of spy programs on Microsoft, and by the presence of NSA personnel in Bill Gates' development teams. The NSA protects communications for the US government, and also intercepts electronic messages for the Defence Department and other US intelligence agencies, the newsletter said. According to the report, 'it would seem that the creation of Microsoft was largely supported, not least financially, by the NSA, and that IBM was made to accept the (Microsoft) MS-DOS operating system by the same administration.' The report claimed the Pentagon was Microsoft's biggest client in the world. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 20 8:59:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.28]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A5DD37BEF4 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 08:59:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@ppp-207-193-187-122.kscymo.swbell.net) Received: from ppp-207-193-187-122.kscymo.swbell.net ([207.193.187.122]) by mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FQ800LP5N6Q4L@mta4.rcsntx.swbell.net> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:59:17 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by ppp-207-193-187-122.kscymo.swbell.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) id KAA68926; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:59:12 -0600 (CST) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 10:59:04 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Subject: Re: US secret agents work at Microsoft: French Intelligence (fwd) In-reply-to: To: oogali@intranova.net (Omachonu Ogali) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: kc5vdj@swbell.net Message-id: <200002201659.KAA68926@ppp-207-193-187-122.kscymo.swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #8: Sat Oct 30 00:56:56 CDT 1999 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > According to the report, 'it would seem that the creation of Microsoft > was largely supported, not least financially, by the NSA, and that IBM > was made to accept the (Microsoft) MS-DOS operating system by the same > administration.' You had me going until this part. I am BY NO MEANS a MickeySoft fan, but... This paragraph completely discredits the entire report. This is the kinda paranoid schizophrenic conspiracy theory you would expect from what we here in the USA call the Art Bell Show, where normal topics of discussion include "United Nations New World Order UFOs being piloted by ET going around anal-probing right-wing hillbillies" and other paranoid schizophrenic topics especially concerning the NSA [one of their favorites]. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ KC5VDJ - HF to 23cm KC5VDJ@NW0I.#NEKS.KS.USA.NOAM kc5vdj@swbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ IC-706MkII - IC-T81A - HTX-202 - HTX-212 - HTX-404 - KPC3+ - PK-232MBX/DSP To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 20 9:20:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from crcst351.netaddress.usa.net (crcst351.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.96]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id AF7FD37BF2E for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 09:20:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j_mckitrick@usa.net) Received: (qmail 7997 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 17:20:45 -0000 Received: from nwcst279.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.23.24) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 17:20:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 5452 invoked by uid 60001); 20 Feb 2000 17:20:45 -0000 Message-ID: <20000220172045.5451.qmail@nwcst279.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.23.24 by nwcst279 for [208.58.239.207] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Sun Feb 20 17:20:45 GMT 2000 Date: 20 Feb 00 10:20:45 MST From: Jonathon McKitrick To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: BSD ISP in NJ X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, i corresponded with someone on this list recently on getting internet ser= vice in NJ. Something got screwed up with my mailbox on dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.o= rg (don't know what it is... it rejects all outgoing mail and all my INBOX m= ail disappeared). Could that gentleman please respond so i can save your add= ress? I don't need an ISP just yet, but i will soon. Thanks, jm ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 20 17:53:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from crcst347.netaddress.usa.net (crcst347.netaddress.usa.net [204.68.23.92]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 04CD537BC48 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:53:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from j_mckitrick@usa.net) Received: (qmail 11638 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 01:29:44 -0000 Received: from nw178.netaddress.usa.net (204.68.24.78) by outbound.netaddress.usa.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 01:29:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 3895 invoked by uid 60001); 21 Feb 2000 01:52:07 -0000 Message-ID: <20000221015207.3894.qmail@nw178.netaddress.usa.net> Received: from 204.68.24.78 by nw178 for [207.172.168.216] via web-mailer(M3.4.0.33) on Mon Feb 21 01:52:07 GMT 2000 Date: 20 Feb 00 18:52:07 MST From: Jonathon McKitrick To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: BSD and Linux X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (M3.4.0.33) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Terry Lambert made a remark about POSIX compliance, and that reminded me of the comment i quoted about BSD and Linux. The person i quoted said= Linux trounced BSD in POSIX compliance. Is this still true? Or is it even relevant? Does the group of POSIX options in the kernel config we use for StarOffice and other Linux compatibility pretty much take care of this? = -jm = = please cc to jcm@freebsd-uk.eu.org my mailrouter from that account is not working, so i have to use this account.... ____________________________________________________________________ Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D= 1 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sun Feb 20 17:58:45 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bytor.rush.net (bytor.rush.net [209.45.245.145]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBB3037BC48 for ; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 17:58:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from lynch@bsdunix.net) Received: from localhost (lynch@localhost) by bytor.rush.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22513; Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:58:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Feb 2000 20:58:42 -0500 (EST) From: Pat Lynch X-Sender: lynch@bytor.rush.net To: Jonathon McKitrick Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: BSD ISP in NJ In-Reply-To: <20000220172045.5451.qmail@nwcst279.netaddress.usa.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org you could check out www.ndi.net (or I could put you in touch with Charles) or you can talk to carroll.com as well, both use *BSD -Pat __ Pat Lynch lynch@rush.net lynch@bsdunix.net lynch@unix.sh lynch@blowfi.sh Systems Administrator Rush Networking On 20 Feb 2000, Jonathon McKitrick wrote: > Hi all, > i corresponded with someone on this list recently on getting internet service > in NJ. Something got screwed up with my mailbox on dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org > (don't know what it is... it rejects all outgoing mail and all my INBOX mail > disappeared). Could that gentleman please respond so i can save your address? > I don't need an ISP just yet, but i will soon. > > Thanks, > jm > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1 > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 3: 5:52 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D555937B723; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 03:05:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id DAA06225; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 03:05:50 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 03:05:49 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: kc5vdj@swbell.net Cc: dmartin@origen.com, chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange Spam In-Reply-To: <200002211027.EAA77853@ppp-207-193-0-31.kscymo.swbell.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Jim Bryant wrote: > echelon is a great idea, but i honestly don't think the computing > power exists to filter ALL internet traffic through a centralized > location. Who said anything about filtering all internet traffic? All it would take is a few strategic taps placed in various US backbones to cover a significant proportion of traffic. The Australian DSD (Defense Signals Directorate) have admitted on record that they participate in echelon as part of the UKUSA alliance..it's really quite well documented in mainstream sources by now. > occam's razor dictates that the entire echelon thing is just another > commie-style recruitment tactic that right-wing extremist groups use. Reports tabled in the european parliament argue otherwise. They're taking it very seriously. Good references are: http://www.cyber-rights.org/interception/stoa/interception_capabilities_2000.htm http://www.gn.apc.org/duncan/ic2kreport.htm Kris ---- "How many roads must a man walk down, before you call him a man?" "Eight!" "That was a rhetorical question!" "Oh..then, seven!" -- Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 10:42: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26FF937B50C; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 10:42:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.19.5] (dialup660.brussels.skynet.be [195.238.21.148]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9156D1229B; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:41:56 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:30:28 +0100 To: Kris Kennaway , kc5vdj@swbell.net From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Strange Spam Cc: dmartin@origen.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 3:05 AM -0800 2000/2/21, Kris Kennaway wrote: >> occam's razor dictates that the entire echelon thing is just another >> commie-style recruitment tactic that right-wing extremist groups use. > > Reports tabled in the european parliament argue otherwise. They're taking > it very seriously. Good references are: With good reason. It is real. Unless you already have the necessary clearance and have been properly briefed, I suggest that you read the following two books: http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140067485/o/qid=951156937/s r=8-1/103-7536616-2575815 and http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/ASIN/0887302858/qid=951157400/sr= 1-4/103-7536616-2575815 In fact, there are a whole wealth of books that turn up with the following search: http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/Subject=Space%20surveillance In particular, you will notice that this book: http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700609423/qid=951157536/sr= 1-1/103-7536616-2575815 is very popular at TRW, which happens to be a major US defense contractor in this area. I haven't read it, and I'm sure that there are some inaccuracies, but his previous book (which I did read), well.... I can't talk about it. Now, if they're doing this with satellites, what you do think their ground network is like? -- These are my opinions and should not be taken as official Skynet policy _________________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/726.93.11 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 13: 2:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from queasy.outpost.co.nz (outpost2.inspire.net.nz [203.96.157.26]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 7358C37B591 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 13:02:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from crh@outpost.co.nz) Received: (qmail 88719 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2000 21:02:02 -0000 Received: from editbeast.outpost.co.nz (HELO outpost.co.nz) (192.168.1.2) by queasy.outpost.co.nz with SMTP; 21 Feb 2000 21:02:02 -0000 Message-ID: <38B1A6E0.3411BF1A@outpost.co.nz> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:58:08 +1300 From: Craig Harding Organization: Outpost Digital Media Ltd X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Strange Spam References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Brad Knowles wrote: > At 3:05 AM -0800 2000/2/21, Kris Kennaway wrote: > > With good reason. It is real. Unless you already have the > necessary clearance and have been properly briefed, I suggest that > you read the following two books: > > [...URLs deleted...] Another good one worth looking at (if you can find it) is "Secret Power: New Zealand's Role in the International Spy Network" by Nicky Hager. Very informative look at NZ's role in Echelon. Unfortunately it appears to be already out of print - I did find a second hand copy listed on B&N. -- C. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 15:33:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.FreeBSD.ORG [204.216.27.21]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DF8537B561; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:33:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) Received: from localhost (kris@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA33405; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:32:44 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@FreeBSD.org) X-Authentication-Warning: freefall.freebsd.org: kris owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 15:32:43 -0800 (PST) From: Kris Kennaway To: Garrett Wollman Cc: "Victor A. Salaman" , chat@freebsd.org Subject: RE: openssl in -current In-Reply-To: <200002212211.RAA05393@khavrinen.lcs.mit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, 21 Feb 2000, Garrett Wollman wrote: > Heh. > > A couple of years ago, RSA Data Security, Inc., was purchased by > another company, also in the security business. The chairman of the > acquiring company told a reporter, ``All we were really after was an > RSA license, but it turned out to be easier to just buy the whole > company.'' Perhaps we should take up a collection :-) Kris ---- "How many roads must a man walk down, before you call him a man?" "Eight!" "That was a rhetorical question!" "Oh..then, seven!" -- Homer Simpson To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 16:34:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA5737B5EC for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 16:34:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jbryant@ppp-207-193-186-58.kscymo.swbell.net) Received: from ppp-207-193-186-58.kscymo.swbell.net ([207.193.186.58]) by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FQB003KR2OYND@mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:29:25 -0600 (CST) Received: (from jbryant@localhost) by ppp-207-193-186-58.kscymo.swbell.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) id SAA79655; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:29:20 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:29:10 -0600 (CST) From: Jim Bryant Subject: Re: Strange Spam In-reply-to: <4.1.20000221153114.00981950@mail.thegrid.net> To: madscientist@thegrid.net (The Mad Scientist) Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Reply-To: kc5vdj@swbell.net Message-id: <200002220029.SAA79655@ppp-207-193-186-58.kscymo.swbell.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL32 (25)] Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Windows: R00LZ!@# MS-Winbl0wz DR00LZ!@# X-files: The truth is that the X-Files is fiction X-Republican: The best kind!!! X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 4.0-CURRENT #8: Sat Oct 30 00:56:56 CDT 1999 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org In reply: > I did some quick frequency analysis of the spam. I don't think it's a > substitution cipher at the word level. Each word occurs only once except > for 'Clarence' and 'chatting' which appears twice each. At the character > level, the text conforms more or less to frequencies of English text. I > don't have a German or Danish frequency table handy, and the spelling of > Mathematik seems to suggest that one should look at those comparisons. It > could be some form of stenography if it is even anything cryptographic. My > guess would be a content fooler. I can't begin to guess why someone would > send such a document. I pasted the first five or so words into > www.dogpile.com and got mostly wordlists, porn sites and seemingly > non-related sites. (AltaVista produced it's usual overkill of 1,102,396 > documents.) A subsitution pad at the word-level doesn't necessarily mean that words have to repeat. jim -- All opinions expressed are mine, if you | "I will not be pushed, stamped, think otherwise, then go jump into turbid | briefed, debriefed, indexed, or radioactive waters and yell WAHOO !!! | numbered!" - #1, "The Prisoner" ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ KC5VDJ - HF to 23cm KC5VDJ@NW0I.#NEKS.KS.USA.NOAM kc5vdj@swbell.net IC-706MkII - IC-T81A - HTX-202 - HTX-212 - HTX-404 - KPC3+ - PK-232MBX/DSP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ET has one helluva sense of humor, always anal-probing right-wing schizos! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 17:40:40 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net [151.164.30.27]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF95A37B603 for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 17:40:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from noslenj@swbell.net) Received: from swbell.net ([207.193.44.131]) by mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.1999.09.16.21.57.p8) with ESMTP id <0FQB00MIO5RQWR@mta3.rcsntx.swbell.net> for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:35:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from localhost (noslenj@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by swbell.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA02069; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:33:47 -0600 (CST envelope-from noslenj@swbell.net) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 19:33:47 -0600 (CST) From: Jay Nelson Subject: Re: Strange Spam In-reply-to: <38B0B487.CB71D7E1@origen.com> To: Richard Martin Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I've seen nothing like this, but a few explainations seem plausible: (a) someone is trying to ding NSA without really understanding what NSA is doing (and can do), and (b) passwords/codes/keys are buried in predefined word patterns or (c) and idiot just discovered a very old program called travesty. If this message was intended to deliver information, it is a good way to do it once or twice. Does anyone know what or if zubenanalgenube means anything? -- Jay On Sun, 20 Feb 2000, Richard Martin wrote: >Has anyone been seeing spam like this lately? It consists of an >unintelligible sequence of English words. Seems to be just strings of >randomly generated words, but I am wondering if there is something more >sinister going on here. Someone accidentally send us an encoded message? > >*************** > >Hi. This is the qmail-send program at mail.origen.com. >I tried to deliver a bounce message to this address, but the bounce bounced! > >: >Sorry, no mailbox here by that name. (#5.1.1) > >- --- Below this line is the original bounce. > >Return-Path: <> >Received: (qmail 1747 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2000 18:24:44 -0000 >Received: from www.cause.org (HELO www.educause.edu) (198.59.61.80) > by mail.origen.com with SMTP; 20 Feb 2000 18:24:44 -0000 >From: postmaster@www.cause.org >To: zubenanalgenube@origen.com >Date: 20 Feb 2000 18:39:16 -0600 >Message-ID: <036cc2029181488RKWEB@www.educause.edu> >Subject: Nondeliverable mail >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: Multipart/mixed; > boundary = "NTWEBgGK:EVF+?cBGmzmVxN" > >- --NTWEBgGK:EVF+?cBGmzmVxN > >- ------Transcript of session follows ------- >ww@cci.lg.ua >550 ... User unknown > >- --NTWEBgGK:EVF+?cBGmzmVxN >Content-Type: message/rfc822; charset=us-ascii > >Received: from BEAVISNBUTTHEAD ([63.225.147.56]) by www.educause.edu with >Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.197.19); > Sun, 20 Feb 2000 18:41:03 -0600 >To: ww@cci.lg.ua >From: zubenanalgenube@origen.com >Subject: RE: from WW >Return-Path: zubenanalgenube@origen.com >Message-ID: <036f23327181488RKWEB@www.educause.edu> >Date: 20 Feb 2000 18:41:06 -0600 > > >StriderCaracas, > >Falsetto colonel flak devilish Miami experience Raymond polymerase emulate >donkey summand Harold paint Daly hill acclimatize evince component seethe >sarah1 Jewish Quixote Dowling corwin bye formant prince collusion, society >agrimony lithography waybill Mathematik Zealand Shockley diluent Braun >retaliate Cortez emphasis hooves we're molt franklin. > >Ravine graphic., auric moat. > >Mynah, ogle circumpolar nameplate tablespoon octopus curiosity posthumous >optometrist stressful crossbill bitnet ablution abstract javelin, continuum >Bentham conflagration Lissajous choose Thomas matriculate cancel reprise. >gratuity broad cramp, southernmost jilt, reverberate Joshua malice homework >hydrometer ladyfern Fourier biophysic fanfold Alcmena adamant phenolic >snowstorm deacon swingable. imputation impel bedding hello washout, hopple >spate doltish erupt thrips Farley, swat twiddle pipsissewa boastful ambrosia, >oatcake haunch porterhouse DARPA anhydrite cerebral inexhaustible feast impede >bombard annie cynthia contractual Nebuchadnezzar. 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Batchelder Francisco survive marshmallow fumigate bloodshot >receive tiger readout academe chatting player, Armonk selenate millstone >bartend provision system, exegete botch cytosine Indonesian design chicago >tailor wagoneer potent aforethought pacific alway loin benzene moose >sympathetic dodecahedron suntanned schist entreaty Comanche anvil yucca. > >Arch, >Ensnare > > >-- >Richard Martin dmartin@origen.com > > >To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org >with "unsubscribe freebsd-security" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 18:38:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A1F4D37B72F; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 18:38:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA03592; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:41:21 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:41:21 -0500 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Brad Knowles Cc: Kris Kennaway , kc5vdj@swbell.net, dmartin@origen.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Strange Spam Message-ID: <20000221214121.A3426@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Reply-To: cjclark@home.com References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from blk@skynet.be on Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 07:30:28PM +0100 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 07:30:28PM +0100, Brad Knowles wrote: > At 3:05 AM -0800 2000/2/21, Kris Kennaway wrote: [snip] > In particular, you will notice that this book: > > http://www.amazon.com:80/exec/obidos/ASIN/0700609423/qid=951157536/sr= > 1-1/103-7536616-2575815 > > is very popular at TRW, which happens to be a major US defense > contractor in this area. I haven't read it, and I'm sure that there > are some inaccuracies, but his previous book (which I did read), > well.... I can't talk about it. > > > > Now, if they're doing this with satellites, what you do think > their ground network is like? Not surprising, TRW builds DSP, Defense Support Program. They are infrared satellites for early warning on missile launches. They've been building those puppies for 30 years. Not a lot of secrets about this program anymore, http://www.trw.com/seg/sats/DSP.html Can't pick up a lot of computer signal intelligence in the infrared... I don't think it has the sensitivity to pick up the signals from a notebook IR port. ;) -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Mon Feb 21 21: 9:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fb02.eng00.mindspring.net (fb02.eng00.mindspring.net [207.69.229.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 482BB37B5AF for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:09:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhix@mindspring.com) Received: from jhix.mindspring.com (user-33qtii3.dialup.mindspring.com [199.174.202.67]) by fb02.eng00.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id AAA00883; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 00:09:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (jhix@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by jhix.mindspring.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA14872; Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:12:26 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jhix@mindspring.com) To: s3braiford@ij.net Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Feaky In-Reply-To: <02203364011287@ij.net> References: <02203364011287@ij.net> X-Mailer: Mew version 1.94.1 on XEmacs 21.1 (Bryce Canyon) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20000221211225A.jhix@mindspring.com> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2000 21:12:25 -0800 From: W Gerald Hicks X-Dispatcher: imput version 990905(IM130) Lines: 25 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org [moved to -chat] From: "The Raifords" > You may/may not have seen this before, but it's pretty freaky!! I, > apparently, am typical -- what are you? > [snip, snip, snip ] > > *Are you thinking of Kangaroos in Denmark? > > > > If not, you're among the 2% of the population whose minds are > different enough to think of something else. 98% of people will > answer with kangaroos in Denmark when given this exercise. > Freaky, huh? I've got a slight variation of this with increased odds that you will answer "Grey Elephants in Denmark". Cheers, Jerry Hicks jhix@mindspring.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 1:35:25 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 749FD37B613 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:35:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA20159; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:35:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <38B257A3.E41AF2C3@gorean.org> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 01:32:19 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: W Gerald Hicks Cc: s3braiford@ij.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Feaky References: <02203364011287@ij.net> <20000221211225A.jhix@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org W Gerald Hicks wrote: > I've got a slight variation of this with increased odds that > you will answer "Grey Elephants in Denmark". And both take advantage of the fact that any two digit product of 9 adds up to 9. These kinds of things have been around for ages, and a good example of what shouldn't be sent to a list full of experienced internet users. :) Doug -- "Welcome to the desert of the real." - Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus, "The Matrix" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 3:35:29 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cage.tse-online.de (cage.tse-online.de [194.97.69.170]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 2AD6437B658 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:35:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ab@cage.tse-online.de) Received: (qmail 86355 invoked by uid 1000); 22 Feb 2000 11:38:47 -0000 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:38:47 +0100 From: Andreas Braukmann To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Feaky Message-ID: <20000222123847.I52002@cage.tse-online.de> References: <02203364011287@ij.net> <20000221211225A.jhix@mindspring.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000221211225A.jhix@mindspring.com>; from jhix@mindspring.com on Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 09:12:25PM -0800 Organization: TSE GmbH - Neue Medien Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Mon, Feb 21, 2000 at 09:12:25PM -0800, W Gerald Hicks wrote: > From: "The Raifords" > > You may/may not have seen this before, but it's pretty freaky!! I, > > apparently, am typical -- what are you? > > > [snip, snip, snip ] > > > > *Are you thinking of Kangaroos in Denmark? no, I wasn't. > > If not, you're among the 2% of the population whose minds are > > different enough to think of something else. 98% of people will > > answer with kangaroos in Denmark when given this exercise. > > Freaky, huh? > I've got a slight variation of this with increased odds that > you will answer "Grey Elephants in Denmark". ... because I'm a 'stupid german-thinking guy'(tm), I thought of 'Dackel in Deutschland'. 'Dackel' - name of a dog race, in English it would be 'dachshund' 'Deutschland' - German for 'germany' ;) -Andreas -- : Anti-Spam Petition: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/ : : PGP-Key: http://www.tse-online.de/~ab/public-key : : Key fingerprint: 12 13 EF BC 22 DD F4 B6 3C 25 C9 06 DC D3 45 9B : To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 3:43: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4418037B5E3 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:42:55 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12NDhZ-0009uv-00; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:42:01 +0200 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:42:01 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Doug Barton Cc: W Gerald Hicks , s3braiford@ij.net, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Feaky Message-ID: <20000222134201.A38003@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <02203364011287@ij.net> <20000221211225A.jhix@mindspring.com> <38B257A3.E41AF2C3@gorean.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: <38B257A3.E41AF2C3@gorean.org> Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue 2000-02-22 (01:32), Doug Barton wrote: > And both take advantage of the fact that any two digit product of 9 adds > up to 9. These kinds of things have been around for ages, and a good > example of what shouldn't be sent to a list full of experienced internet > users. :) 99 doesn't. *hide* Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 3:48:15 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from midget.dons.net.au (daniel.lnk.telstra.net [139.130.137.70]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F163A37B566 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:48:11 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from darius@guppy.dons.net.au) Received: from guppy.dons.net.au (root@guppy.dons.net.au [203.31.81.9]) by midget.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA20823; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:17:46 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from darius@guppy.dons.net.au) Received: (from darius@localhost) by guppy.dons.net.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA12559; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:17:37 +1030 (CST) (envelope-from darius) Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.4.0 on FreeBSD X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20000222134201.A38003@mithrandr.moria.org> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:17:37 +1030 (CST) From: "Daniel O'Connor" To: Neil Blakey-Milner Subject: Re: Feaky Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, s3braiford@ij.net, W Gerald Hicks , Doug Barton Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On 22-Feb-00 Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: >> example of what shouldn't be sent to a list full of experienced >> internet >> users. :) > 99 doesn't. 99 * 9 = 891 8 + 9 + 1 = 18 1 + 8 = 9 --- Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au "The nice thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from." -- Andrew Tanenbaum To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 3:54:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns1.sunesi.net (ns1.sunesi.net [196.15.192.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC39B37B600 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 03:54:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nbm@sunesi.net) Received: from nbm by ns1.sunesi.net with local (Exim 3.03 #1) id 12NDtU-0009zR-00; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:20 +0200 Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 13:54:20 +0200 From: Neil Blakey-Milner To: Daniel O'Connor Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, s3braiford@ij.net, W Gerald Hicks , Doug Barton Subject: Re: Feaky Message-ID: <20000222135419.A38343@mithrandr.moria.org> References: <20000222134201.A38003@mithrandr.moria.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i In-Reply-To: Organization: Sunesi Clinical Systems X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386 X-URL: http://rucus.ru.ac.za/~nbm/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue 2000-02-22 (22:17), Daniel O'Connor wrote: > On 22-Feb-00 Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > >> example of what shouldn't be sent to a list full of experienced > >> internet > >> users. :) > > 99 doesn't. > > 99 * 9 = 891 > > 8 + 9 + 1 = 18 > > 1 + 8 = 9 That's not what he said. He said "sum of any two digit product of 9 adds up to 9". 99 is a two digit product of 9. It does not add up to 9. I do understand the property; his description was slightly inaccurate (and in no way is limited to two digit products). Hence the "*hide*". Neil -- Neil Blakey-Milner nbm@rucus.ru.ac.za To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 5: 0:16 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3838037B66C for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:00:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA75675 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:00:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 05:00:10 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: February BAFUG meeting in Berkeley Message-ID: <20000222050010.B75625@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org -- Berkeley BAFUG -- (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) February 2000 Meeting The Berkeley chapter of the Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group (BAFUG) will be holding its monthly meeting on Thursday, February 24th. This month's meeting will be held at The Transbay / UC Computers at 2569 Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley. The meeting will start at 7:30 pm. Our Agenda will be : Agenda : ==> Josef Grosch will give an informal talk on setup Jserv which is a Java servelet running within Apache. ==> Josef Grosch will talk about BAFUGs plans for the upcoming Install-A-Thon to be held on February 26th at The Robert Austin Computer Show at the Oakland Convention Center. ==> Pizza and Soda will be ordered and the hat will be passed `round ==> Of course, we will have the usually kvetchen about sundry topics Location: This months meeting will be held at UC Computers / Transbay in Berkeley. UC Computers is located at 2569 Telegraph Ave. between Parker & Baker Streets. There is limited parking on the street. Their phone number is (510) 649-6087. Time: The meeting starts at 7:30ish with pizza showing up around 7:15ish. We generally get kicked out around 11:00 pm. Directions: By AC Transit bus: By AC Transit bus: Routes 40 El Cerrito - Bayfair, 64 Downtown Berkeley - Merritt College, 51 Berkeley - Oakland - Alameda, 52 U.C. Village - U.C. Campus, 7 Del Norte BART - Rockridge BART, and "U" San Francisco - Berkeley stop nearby. By BART: From the downtown Berkeley station, walk uphill (east) one block on Allston Way to Oxford Street at the edge of the UC campus, turning right (south) two blocks to turn left (east) onto Bancroft Way. Walk three blocks uphill to turn right (south) onto Telegraph Avenue. Transbay/UC Computers is 5 1/2 short blocks ahead, at 2569 Telegraph. By Car: By car: From I-80, exit eastbound on University Avenue, and proceed two miles to the end, turning right (south) on Oxford Street. Proceed 11 blocks along Oxford (which becomes Fulton Street) to turn left (east) on Parker Street. Go three blocks to Telegraph, and park where you can. Transbay/UC Computers is at 2569 Telegraph. WWW info: More info can be found at the following URLs http://www.transbay.net http://www.bafug.org Contact: Please contact either Nicole Harrington , or Josef Grosch on or before February 24th so we can have a basic idea of how much pizza, soda, and coffee we will need. -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.4 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 9:36:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from dt051n0b.san.rr.com (dt051n0b.san.rr.com [204.210.32.11]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2F2137B6DF for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:36:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Received: from gorean.org (master [10.0.0.2]) by dt051n0b.san.rr.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA22514; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:36:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from Doug@gorean.org) Message-ID: <38B2C83E.93C8AB2B@gorean.org> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 09:32:46 -0800 From: Doug Barton Organization: Triborough Bridge & Tunnel Authority X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Neil Blakey-Milner Cc: "Daniel O'Connor" , freebsd-chat@freebsd.org, s3braiford@ij.net, W Gerald Hicks Subject: Re: Feaky References: <20000222134201.A38003@mithrandr.moria.org> <20000222135419.A38343@mithrandr.moria.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > > On Tue 2000-02-22 (22:17), Daniel O'Connor wrote: > > On 22-Feb-00 Neil Blakey-Milner wrote: > > >> example of what shouldn't be sent to a list full of experienced > > >> internet > > >> users. :) > > > 99 doesn't. > > > > 99 * 9 = 891 > > > > 8 + 9 + 1 = 18 > > > > 1 + 8 = 9 > > That's not what he said. He said "sum of any two digit product of > 9 adds up to 9". > > 99 is a two digit product of 9. It does not add up to 9. > > I do understand the property; his description was slightly inaccurate > (and in no way is limited to two digit products). Hence the > "*hide*". You'll have to excuse me for not adding all of the 4 pages of qualifications that my statement would really have required. I vaguely remember that if you take any number, multiply it by 9, then keep adding up the numbers you'll get 9, but I didn't feel like going out on a limb with it. I should have known that my hope of evading smart-ass responses to my post was in vain. Thanks for not letting me down, Doug -- "Welcome to the desert of the real." - Laurence Fishburne as Morpheus, "The Matrix" To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 10: 5:54 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from morpheus.skynet.be (morpheus.skynet.be [195.238.2.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8061937B6A6 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 10:05:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by morpheus.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34980CBC3 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:05:45 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 19:04:37 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brad Knowles Subject: Updated postmark benchmark data... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, If you're interested, take a look at . I'm trying to get all my I's dotted and T's crossed for a performance tuning expert that is supposed to be here on Thursday to help us set up our extremely expensive mainframe-style refrigerator-size drive array that we will be connecting to our news spool server. I want to be able to test the performance of the drive array in various configurations and be able to immediately compare them against other data that I have. Anyway, I hope to fill in some gaps with rawio (once I get it working again), Bonnie++, IO Bench, etc.... However, for now, this is primarily what I've got. -- These are my opinions and should not be taken as official Skynet policy _________________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/726.93.11 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 11:29:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from taxismtp2.alchemyfx.com (taxismtp2.alchemy.net [208.232.0.9]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F30937B766; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:29:15 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from gummibear@nettaxi.com) Received: from DSL100120 (DSL100-120.brandx.net [209.55.100.120]) by taxismtp2.alchemyfx.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15152; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:21:19 -0800 Message-ID: <000901bf7d6c$29069360$786437d1@BRANDX.NET> From: "Joey Garcia" To: , Subject: FreeBSD 3.4 Reviewed on 32bitsonline.com Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 11:36:46 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org This is pretty much old news, but for those of you that haven't heard there was an article on 32bitsonline.com about FreeBSD 3.4. It was a very favorable article. The reason why I'm mentioning this again is because the few comments generated about this article on their "posts" section toward the end of the article. Currently there are six postings. Pretty sad when you compare it to articles written about Linux which receive tons of favorable comments from Linux users. I was hoping to generate the same kind of response from the BSD community. It's not always that BSD gets mentioned in the press (even if it's an online magazine) and perhaps we should promote, show our appreciation, and speak favorably about our beloved OS. The Linux community tend to be very outspoken about their OS (sometimes that can be a bad thing), which generates alot of interest from new users, media, and the press. That's the one thing that they have over us. Perhaps in the future that will change. So if you're interested, take a couple of minutes and let people know that BSD is everything that author made it out tobe and much much more. Thanks for listening. Joey To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 12:22:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (www.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E668937B733 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 12:22:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA22464; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:06:03 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA22368; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:22:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:22:07 -0600 (CST) From: Kris Kirby To: Joe Greco Cc: Matthew Dillon , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem size limit? In-Reply-To: <200002151856.MAA66327@aurora.sol.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Joe Greco wrote: > > The second scariest thing about this posting, which Joe didn't mention, > > is that his sole reason for creating this filesystem is to store his collection > > of Elvis movies! > > Huh? No. It's my pr0n server, dewd. Do you know how many nekkid pikturez > you can stuff onto 1.8TB? A friend of mine and I tend to hold on to a theory we jointly developed, which states that there is only so much porn on the internet and the rest is just recycled. I set my idea at around a few hundred gigabytes; my friend took the leap at a terabyte or so. ---- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "God gave them the ability to reproduce... ... Science gave us the hope they won't." -KBK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 14:58: 0 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7C0737B79E for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 14:57:57 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA00555 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:57:57 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 16:57:57 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: idrive.com and xdrive.com Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, Anyone know anything about either of these companies? Seems the former is running there webservers on FreeBSD at least. Just interested in seeing if anyone has used there service or if they have any contacts on the inside. Thanks. -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 15:25:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from spirit.jaded.net (spirit.jaded.net [216.94.113.12]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 11EE937B6D7 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 15:25:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dan@spirit.jaded.net) Received: (from dan@localhost) by spirit.jaded.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA02873; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:25:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 18:25:45 -0500 From: Dan Moschuk To: Steve Price Cc: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: idrive.com and xdrive.com Message-ID: <20000222182545.B2020@spirit.jaded.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from sprice@hiwaay.net on Tue, Feb 22, 2000 at 04:57:57PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I know magicfloppy.com runs FreeBSD. | Hi all, | | Anyone know anything about either of these companies? Seems the | former is running there webservers on FreeBSD at least. Just | interested in seeing if anyone has used there service or if they | have any contacts on the inside. | | Thanks. | | -steve | | | | To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org | with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message -- Dan Moschuk (TFreak!dan@freebsd.org) "Waste not fresh tears on old griefs." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 17: 6:58 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (ha1.rdc1.wa.home.com [24.0.2.66]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94B5837B761; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:06:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from johnmpurser@home.com) Received: from C37259A ([24.9.57.64]) by mail.rdc1.wa.home.com (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000223010651.QEHE14903.mail.rdc1.wa.home.com@C37259A>; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:06:51 -0800 Reply-To: From: "John Purser" To: , , Subject: Newbie thanking the helpful. Reports incomplete instructions and stupid manual! Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 17:06:48 -0800 Message-ID: <000101bf7d9a$42b29a60$40390918@vncvr1.wa.home.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2377.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org It works! I finally got my FreeBSD box hooked up to the internet via @home and the rest of my network (okay, two other machines) can use it as a gateway! Thanks to all those worthy soldiers who hurled their knowledge, experience, and patience at the sturdy walls of my ignorance. My reach now exceeds my grasp as I don't understand all the implications of WHAT I've done but I know HOW I did it! Many books are on the way from Amazon and they should correct this imbalance. From my vantage point of experienced internet hacker (I've run ping AND whois!) I can now report with certainty that all of the instructions were incomplete and the so called manual "The Complete FreeBSD" is seriously flawed. Not once in all the web pages, archived letters, and helpful e-mails was I instructed to check my spelling when editing /etc/rc.conf! This major oversight cost me many frustrating days! And the manual just ASSUMES that I know which NIC is fxp0 and which one is fxp1! Stupid Manual! Well let bygones be bygones! I'm sure now that I've pointed out these errors a crack team is at work to correct them. Enough said! Now, who wants to help me set up my e-mail? Thanks again, John Purser P.S. If you reply please replay just to chat. I only posted to questions because that's were the people who helped heard my cries! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 20: 0:36 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from apollo.backplane.com (apollo.backplane.com [216.240.41.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6283D37B8C1 for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:00:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon@apollo.backplane.com) Received: (from dillon@localhost) by apollo.backplane.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id UAA24325; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:00:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dillon) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 20:00:20 -0800 (PST) From: Matthew Dillon Message-Id: <200002230400.UAA24325@apollo.backplane.com> To: Kris Kirby Cc: Joe Greco , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem size limit? References: Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org : :On Tue, 15 Feb 2000, Joe Greco wrote: :> > The second scariest thing about this posting, which Joe didn't mention, :> > is that his sole reason for creating this filesystem is to store his collection :> > of Elvis movies! :> :> Huh? No. It's my pr0n server, dewd. Do you know how many nekkid pikturez :> you can stuff onto 1.8TB? : :A friend of mine and I tend to hold on to a theory we jointly developed, :which states that there is only so much porn on the internet and the rest :is just recycled. I set my idea at around a few hundred gigabytes; my :friend took the leap at a terabyte or so. : :---- :Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. : | :------------------------------------------------------- I take it all back. The server holds nothing but scanned-in self portraits! (Just got an HP scanner. Scanned in a picture at maximum resolution and wound up with a 400MB file!). :-) -Matt Matthew Dillon To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 21:19: 4 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (www.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2217037B89C for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 21:19:01 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA05135; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:02:47 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA27332; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:18:56 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:18:56 -0600 (CST) From: Kris Kirby To: Matthew Dillon Cc: Joe Greco , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem size limit? In-Reply-To: <200002230400.UAA24325@apollo.backplane.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > I take it all back. The server holds nothing but scanned-in > self portraits! > > (Just got an HP scanner. Scanned in a picture at maximum resolution > and wound up with a 400MB file!). :-) Once upon a time, I was tasked to clean out a teacher's computer and restore it to fully-functioning status. This machine had a scanner and a 850 MB hard drive. When I first started using the machine, I noticed it was running Windows 3.1 and had about 350 MB free. Then I found four 100 MB .tif files (no compression) of 8.5" x 11" scans taken from a "Lowrider" magazine. A little while later, the free space was correctly restored, and the teacher questioned. --- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "God gave them the ability to reproduce... ... Science gave us the hope they won't." -KBK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Tue Feb 22 22:16:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ind.alcatel.com (postal.xylan.com [208.8.0.248]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10C2137B786; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:16:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from wes@softweyr.com) Received: from mailhub.xylan.com (mailhub [198.206.181.70]) by ind.alcatel.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (ind.alcatel.com 3.0 [OUT])) with SMTP id WAA08146; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:15:35 -0800 (PST) X-Origination-Site: Received: from omni.xylan.com by mailhub.xylan.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4 (mailhub 2.1 [HUB])) id WAA03100; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:15:34 -0800 Received: from softweyr.com (homer.softweyr.com [204.68.178.39]) by omni.xylan.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1 (Xylan engr [SPOOL])) with ESMTP id WAA20839; Tue, 22 Feb 2000 22:15:31 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <38B37CAF.6CE21B19@softweyr.com> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2000 23:22:39 -0700 From: Wes Peters Organization: Softweyr LLC X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; FreeBSD 3.3-RELEASE i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Joey Garcia Cc: advocacy@freebsd.org, chat@freebsd.org, core@deamonnews.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD 3.4 Reviewed on 32bitsonline.com References: <000901bf7d6c$29069360$786437d1@BRANDX.NET> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Joey Garcia wrote: > > This is pretty much old news, but for those of you that haven't heard there > was an article on 32bitsonline.com about FreeBSD 3.4. It was a very > favorable article. > > The reason why I'm mentioning this again is because the few comments > generated about this article on their "posts" section toward the end of the > article. Currently there are six postings. Pretty sad when you compare it > to articles written about Linux which receive tons of favorable comments > from Linux users. Did you post a link to the article on daily.daemonnews.org? That's probably the BEST way to get word out. If you're not reading it daily, you're not up to date on BSD. Gee, that sounds like a pretty good tag line, doesn't it? ;^) -- "Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?" Wes Peters Softweyr LLC wes@softweyr.com http://softweyr.com/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 4:44:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E853B37B833 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 04:44:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78A3112359 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:44:36 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:24:58 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brad Knowles Subject: SANE 2000 program details and registration - May 22-25, 2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, I'm sure that this will be of interest to many of the folks on this list. If you surf over to , you will note that our own Poul-Henning Kamp is giving a presentation entitled "Confining the omnipotent root", and at you can read more about the presentation Joe Greco (no stranger to those of you at the cross-roads of USENET news administration and FreeBSD) is giving on the subject of how he has built a large (and highly scalable) USENET news server system on relatively inexpensive commodity components. For the security minded folks in the crowd who might be willing to look a bit further afield, you might be interested in the presentation Jon Lasser is giving on Bastille Linux (a ruggedized Red Hat, read more about it at ), or the presentation that Guido van Rooij is doing on "Real Stateful TCP Packet Filtering in IP-filter" (read more about it at ). Anyway, without further ado, I give you the official announcement: At the SANE 2000 web site ( http://www.nluug.nl/sane/ ) you will find full program details, on-line registration, hotel information & reservation forms, travel information and much more, regarding the SANE 2000 conference. ____ _ _ _ _____ ____ ___ ___ ___ / ___| / \ | \ | | ____| |___ \ / _ \ / _ \ / _ \ \___ \ / _ \ | \| | _| __) | | | | | | | | | | ___) / ___ \| |\ | |___ / __/| |_| | |_| | |_| | |____/_/ \_\_| \_|_____| |_____|\___/ \___/ \___/ http://www.nluug.nl/sane/ 2nd International SANE Conference May 22-25, 2000 Maastricht, The Netherlands A conference organized by the NLUUG, the UNIX User Group - The Netherlands co-sponsored by USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association, and Stichting NLnet ---------------- Important dates: ---------------- Early registration deadline: April 7, 2000 Registration closing date : May 14, 2000 We are very pleased to present you the program for SANE 2000, an international conference on System Administration and Networking, focused on UNIX and IP networking. Going through the program, you will find renowned speakers for many interesting topics. SANE 2000 is the place where you will hear, discuss, then put to use the latest research, well-thought-out approaches, tools and techniques for practical system administration and security. Monday and Tuesday are your true opportunity for in-depth study! For two days, choose among three tracks of tutorials, covering topics like Perl/Tk, IPSEC, Sendmail, firewalls, DNS and general UNIX systems administration and led by experienced and respected instructors like Eric Allman, Jim Reid, Hugh Daniel, Walter Belgers, Hans van de Looy, Mark Overmeer, Jos Vos and Evi Nemeth. During the third and fourth day of SANE 2000 you will (after the keynote) be able to choose from two tracks of interesting presentations: the refereed papers track or the invited talks sessions. Hear about network management, security, modern file system techniques, IP internals, (b)leading edge developments, the use of open source software, and so on. You will find a remarkable line-up of speakers, including Brian Reid, Jeff Allen, Eric Allman, Barbara Dijker, Guido van Rooij, Mark Burgess, Joe Greco, Bastiaan Bakker and many, many more. On Tuesday and Wednesday you can also stroll along the exhibition area, where vendors will demonstrate their latest hardware and software products they hope will help you do your job more efficiently and effectively. Of course, there's also time to relax. Make sure you don't miss the social event (and conference dinner) on Wednesday evening. The conference ends on Thursday afternoon with the "The inSANE Quiz" where keywords like Hilarious! Fun! Educational! apply. Attend the quiz and be awed by the vast amounts of absolutely useless knowledge portrayed by the quiz candidates. Or, even better, register as a potential quiz candidate and test your cognitive powers against the world's masters of completely useless facts. Try to beat the reigning champion! SANE 2000 is hosted in the Maastricht Exposition and Conference Center, MECC, close to the medieval center of the city of Maastricht, in the south of the Netherlands, close to the borders with Belgium and Germany. Please join us. We hope to see you in Maastricht on May 22-25 at SANE 2000! Edwin H. Kremer, Program Co-Chair Dept. of Computer Science, Utrecht University Bob Eskes, Program Co-Chair Applied System's Research, Hollandse Signaalapparaten, Hengelo For The SANE 2000 Program Committee. P.S. register early for the tutorials: they tend to fill up fast! -- These are my opinions and should not be taken as official Skynet policy _________________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/726.93.11 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 10: 3:44 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ns3.tstt.net.tt (ns3.tstt.net.tt [196.3.132.3]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B154737B857 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:03:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dchulhan@uwi.tt) Received: from uwi.tt (cuscon4008.tstt.net.tt [209.94.217.22]) by ns3.tstt.net.tt with ESMTP id OAA62252 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:02:28 -0400 Message-ID: <38B4209A.6F361D35@uwi.tt> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:02:03 -0400 From: "Dale E. Chulhan" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: _FreeBSD-Chat Subject: Resoloution Problem Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi folks, Not really a freebsd problem but I'm sure you guys can help ... My desktops are too small ( 640 x 480 ) and i think that I will need 800 x 600 to be more productive cause i have to use the virtual desktops... Can any one help me increase my desktop size? In addition, when I run enlightenment I get a " Fatal error, cannot initialise imlib " An ideas on this one? -- 8""8""8 8"""" 8""""8 8 8 8 eeeee e e 8 eeeee eeeee eeeeeee 8 8 eeeee e eeee 8e 8 8 8 8 8 8 8eeee 8 8 8 88 8 8 8 8e 8 8 8 8 8 88 8 8 8eee8 8e 8e 88 8eee8e 8 8 8e 8 8 88 8 8eee8 8e 8eee 88 8 8 88 8 88 88 88 88 8 8 8 88 8 8 88 8 88 8 88 88 88 8 8 88 8 88 88eee 88 88 8 8eee8 88 8 8 88eee8 88 8 88eee 88ee To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 10:35:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ntstn.sasknow.com (h139-142-245-100.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C399137B99A for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 10:35:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ntstn.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA69667; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:35:07 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) X-Authentication-Warning: ntstn.sasknow.com: ryan owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:35:07 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson To: "Dale E. Chulhan" Cc: _FreeBSD-Chat Subject: Re: Resoloution Problem In-Reply-To: <38B4209A.6F361D35@uwi.tt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Dale E. Chulhan wrote: > Hi folks, > > Not really a freebsd problem but I'm sure you guys can help ... > My desktops are too small ( 640 x 480 ) and i think that I will need 800 x 600 > to be more productive cause i have to use the virtual desktops... > > Can any one help me increase my desktop size? run XF86Setup and switch your screen resolution there. xf86config will provide you with a text-based interface. Note the capitilization on both. > In addition, when I run enlightenment I get a " Fatal error, cannot > initialise imlib " > > An ideas on this one? Nope, sorry... I don't run enlightenment. -- Ryan Thompson 50% Owner, Technical and Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 11:11:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from peloton.runet.edu (peloton.runet.edu [137.45.96.205]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BA237B965 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:11:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Received: from localhost (brett@localhost) by peloton.runet.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA08843; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:10:17 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from brett@peloton.runet.edu) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:10:16 -0500 (EST) From: Brett Taylor To: "Dale E. Chulhan" Cc: _FreeBSD-Chat Subject: Re: Resoloution Problem In-Reply-To: <38B4209A.6F361D35@uwi.tt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi, On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Dale E. Chulhan wrote: > My desktops are too small ( 640 x 480 ) and i think that I will need > 800 x 600 to be more productive cause i have to use the virtual > desktops... > Can any one help me increase my desktop size? Edit your XF86Config and/or (depending on your XF86Config), hit (ctrl)(alt)(+) or (ctrl)(alt)(-) to cycle through the present resolutions listed in your XF86Config. > In addition, when I run enlightenment I get a " Fatal error, cannot > initialise imlib " Is imlib installed? Brett ***************************************************** Dr. Brett Taylor brett@peloton.runet.edu * Dept of Chem and Physics * Curie 39A (540) 831-6147 * Dept. of Mathematics and Statistics * Walker 234 (540) 831-5410 * ***************************************************** To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 12:11:46 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F7537B9D2; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:11:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32471122D2; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:11:32 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:10:58 +0100 To: Kris Kennaway , kc5vdj@swbell.net From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: Strange Spam Cc: dmartin@origen.com, chat@FreeBSD.ORG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At 3:05 AM -0800 2000/2/21, Kris Kennaway wrote: > Reports tabled in the european parliament argue otherwise. They're taking > it very seriously. Good references are: > > >http://www.cyber-rights.org/interception/stoa/interception_capabilitie >s_2000.htm > http://www.gn.apc.org/duncan/ic2kreport.htm There's also the wire report at , and the official report itself is supposed to be online at , although they appear to currently be slashdotted. -- These are my opinions and should not be taken as official Skynet policy _________________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/726.93.11 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 15:30:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.25.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7FB1737B9DB for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:30:05 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ohoyer@fbwi.fh-wilhelmshaven.de) Received: from fettesau.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (stuwopc5.stuwo.fh-wilhelmshaven.de [139.13.209.5]) by mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA09138 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:29:56 +0100 (MET) Message-Id: <4.1.20000223001238.02630630@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de> X-Sender: ohoyer@mail.rz.fh-wilhelmshaven.de X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.1 Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 00:15:26 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Olaf Hoyer Subject: Successor to Trinoo flooding tool Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi! Just read this on Cnet: http://2.digital.cnet.com/cgi-bin2/flo?x=dBgAhohmmwYguuuY Seems like there are some hard weeks ahead... Now every kiddie might try to play subversive element.... Regards Olaf Hoyer -------- Olaf Hoyer www.nightfire.de mailto:Olaf.Hoyer@nightfire.de FreeBSD- Turning PC's into workstations ICQ:22838075 Liebe und Hass sind nicht blind, aber geblendet vom Feuer, dass sie selber mit sich tragen. (Nietzsche) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 17: 3:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from venus.hili.com (venus.hili.com [207.246.237.136]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F299137BA75 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:03:42 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bob@stumpweb.com) Received: from bob-pc (bay4-161.nyc.ziplink.net [206.15.145.161]) by venus.hili.com (Postfix) with SMTP id A9B61F054; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:10:23 -0500 (EST) From: "Bob Stump" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Newbie thanking the helpful. Reports incomplete instructions and stupid manual! Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:03:29 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01bf7e62$f64e88e0$01fba8c0@bob-pc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 In-Reply-To: <000101bf7d9a$42b29a60$40390918@vncvr1.wa.home.com> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org John, How about giving us a step-by-step of the right way to do it? I've been trying to do what you've just done and I'm still having trouble too! I missed all the responses that helped you out. Thanks, Bob >-----Original Message----- >It works! I finally got my FreeBSD box hooked up to the >internet via @home >and the rest of my network (okay, two other machines) can use it as a >gateway! > >Thanks to all those worthy soldiers who hurled their >knowledge, experience, >and patience at the sturdy walls of my ignorance. My reach >now exceeds my >grasp as I don't understand all the implications of WHAT >I've done but I >know HOW I did it! Many books are on the way from Amazon >and they should >correct this imbalance. > >>From my vantage point of experienced internet hacker (I've >run ping AND >whois!) I can now report with certainty that all of the >instructions were >incomplete and the so called manual "The Complete FreeBSD" >is seriously >flawed. > >Not once in all the web pages, archived letters, and helpful >e-mails was I >instructed to check my spelling when editing /etc/rc.conf! >This major >oversight cost me many frustrating days! And the manual >just ASSUMES that I >know which NIC is fxp0 and which one is fxp1! Stupid Manual! > >Well let bygones be bygones! I'm sure now that I've pointed >out these >errors a crack team is at work to correct them. Enough said! > >Now, who wants to help me set up my e-mail? > >Thanks again, > >John Purser > >P.S. If you reply please replay just to chat. I only posted >to questions >because that's were the people who helped heard my cries! To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 17:22:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from trinity.skynet.be (trinity.skynet.be [195.238.2.38]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 423EE37B9C8 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:22:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from blk@skynet.be) Received: from [195.238.1.121] (brad.techos.skynet.be [195.238.1.121]) by trinity.skynet.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 558AF1230C for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:22:21 +0100 (MET) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: blk@pop.skynet.be (Unverified) Message-Id: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:20:13 +0100 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org From: Brad Knowles Subject: EU Report on ECHELON... Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Folks, I've got the real-deal PDFs. Links are at the bottom of . Please mirror these files widely, so that my poor little server isn't nuked out of existence! -- These are my opinions and should not be taken as official Skynet policy _________________________________________________________________________ |o| Brad Knowles, Belgacom Skynet NV/SA |o| |o| Systems Architect, Mail/News/FTP/Proxy Admin Rue Col. Bourg, 124 |o| |o| Phone/Fax: +32-2-706.13.11/726.93.11 B-1140 Brussels |o| |o| http://www.skynet.be Belgium |o| \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Unix is like a wigwam -- no Gates, no Windows, and an Apache inside. Unix is very user-friendly. It's just picky who its friends are. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Wed Feb 23 19:53:51 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.HiWAAY.net (fly.HiWAAY.net [208.147.154.56]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1302037BAA5 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:53:49 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from sprice@hiwaay.net) Received: from localhost (sprice@localhost) by mail.HiWAAY.net (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id VAA12323 for ; Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:53:47 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:53:47 -0600 (CST) From: Steve Price To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: HTTP_USER_AGENT question Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Anyone know which browser sports the following HTTP_USER_AGENT? Mozilla/4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) Thanks. -steve To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 1:19:10 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from hydrant.intranova.net (hydrant.intranova.net [209.201.95.10]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 608E537BD6C for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:19:03 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from oogali@intranova.net) Received: (qmail 4255 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2000 05:19:13 -0000 Received: from localhost (user54728@127.0.0.1) by hydrant.intranova.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2000 05:19:13 -0000 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:19:13 -0500 (EST) From: Omachonu Ogali To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HTTP_USER_AGENT question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org An @Home user with a Netscape Browser. On Wed, 23 Feb 2000, Steve Price wrote: > Anyone know which browser sports the following HTTP_USER_AGENT? > > Mozilla/4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) > > Thanks. > > -steve > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message > -- +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Omachonu Ogali oogali@intranova.net | | Intranova Networking Group http://tribune.intranova.net | | PGP Key ID: 0xBFE60839 | | PGP Fingerprint: C8 51 14 FD 2A 87 53 D1 E3 AA 12 12 01 93 BD 34 | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 1:56:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from web3302.mail.yahoo.com (web3302.mail.yahoo.com [204.71.201.25]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 19E0B37BB81 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:56:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kelikh@yahoo.com) Message-ID: <20000224095615.11635.qmail@web3302.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [202.158.30.105] by web3302.mail.yahoo.com; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:56:15 PST Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:56:15 -0800 (PST) From: kelik haryono Subject: help To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org dear sir/madam, I'm begginer for FreeBSD and i will need some help, where can i get some that i can count on ? thank you kelik __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 6:35: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7433337BD6F for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 06:35:00 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 12NzLy-000Prt-00; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:34:54 +0000 Received: from localhost (jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA20846; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:34:53 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:34:53 +0000 (GMT) From: Jonathon McKitrick To: kelik haryono Cc: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: help In-Reply-To: <20000224095615.11635.qmail@web3302.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org At www.freebsd.org, under documentation, there is an FAQ and a handbook. The handbook is the free 'bible' to freebsd. If you want to pay, get 'the complete freebsd'. Make sure you give those documents a reasonably thorough read before you ask questions (especially questions already answered in the FAQ). If you don't follow these instructions, you'll just get a lot of responses telling you to RTFM, or RTFFAQ. :-) After that, feel free to post questions to questions@freebsd.org, where other newbies and seasoned veterans alike, all volunteers, will try to help you as they are able and as they have the time (lots of them are busy on the 4.0 release). Welcome aboard! -=> jm <=- Please CC me on all replies ------------------------------------------------------- "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very, very brightly." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 9:56:22 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mooseriver.com (superior.mooseriver.com [209.249.56.198]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 317B737BC02 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:56:18 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch@mooseriver.com) Received: (from jgrosch@localhost) by mooseriver.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA16666 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:56:14 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jgrosch) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:56:14 -0800 From: Josef Grosch To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: Head count for BAFUG in Berkeley Message-ID: <20000224095614.B16550@mooseriver.com> Reply-To: jgrosch@mooseriver.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Heads up! I need a head count of people who are planning on attending Thursdays meeting. This is so I'll have some idea how much pizza, soda, and coffee to get. If you could respond by Thursday 6pm it would be very helpful. Our normally scheduled hacking will now continue. Josef -- Josef Grosch | Another day closer to a | FreeBSD 3.4 jgrosch@MooseRiver.com | Micro$oft free world | UNIX for the masses To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 10:50:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28FFE37BC02 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:50:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ksmm@threespace.com) Received: from dallas ([12.73.247.153]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <20000224185035.ULHM28762@dallas> for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:50:35 +0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000224133416.00c28200@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: ksmm@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:36:24 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: The Classiest Man Alive Subject: FreeBSD daemon changes Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org What happened to the bug-eyed daemon mascot that appeared on the 3.1 and 3.2 CD-ROMs and the web site for a while? Is that guy gone for good? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 10:51:43 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 500EF37BCD4 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:51:41 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from dallas ([12.73.247.153]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <20000224185139.ULRG28762@dallas> for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:51:39 +0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000224003858.00bf99c0@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 00:43:27 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: tracking a computer via IP address Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org How can I locate a particular computer via an IP address? I have an IP address for a computer, and I want to find out what computer it may be. Is it possible to trace a computer with a non-fixed IP address such as one that gets its address upon making a dialup connection? Thanks in advance, Chip Morton P.S. -- No need to reply to me directly, as I am subscribed to freebsd-chat. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11: 1:49 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rock.ghis.net (rock.ghis.net [209.222.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5BD37B8F2 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:01:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@blackdawn.com) Received: from shadow.blackdawn.com (postfix@[209.69.195.164]) by rock.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA40324; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:01:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by shadow.blackdawn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AD1401A7E; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:01:02 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:00:59 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: The Classiest Man Alive Cc: FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon changes Message-ID: <20000224140057.C49578@shadow.blackdawn.com> References: <4.2.2.20000224133416.00c28200@mail.threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000224133416.00c28200@mail.threespace.com>; from ksmm@threespace.com on Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:36:24PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:36:24PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > What happened to the bug-eyed daemon mascot that appeared on the 3.1 and > 3.2 CD-ROMs and the web site for a while? Is that guy gone for good? Um.. I see him at the top of the FreeBSD site.. and he's been on my CDs as long as I can remember (which is 2.2.6 for me).. all the way through 3.4-RELEASE. Perhaps your eyes need checking? :-) -- Will Andrews GCS/E/S @d- s+:+>+:- a--->+++ C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ !N !o ?K w--- ?O M+ V-- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+>+++ t++ 5 X++ R+ tv+ b++>++++ DI+++ D+ G++>+++ e->++++ h! r-->+++ y? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11: 2:47 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EAC437BC02 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:02:45 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Received: from shell-2.enteract.com (jrs@shell-2.enteract.com [207.229.143.41]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA46269 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:02:44 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from jrs@enteract.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:02:44 -0600 (CST) From: John Sconiers To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: tracking a computer via IP address In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000224003858.00bf99c0@mail.threespace.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org The best thing to use here would be a MAC address if posssible. > How can I locate a particular computer via an IP address? I have an IP > address for a computer, and I want to find out what computer it may be. Is > it possible to trace a computer with a non-fixed IP address such as one > that gets its address upon making a dialup connection? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11:10:55 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail.enteract.com (mail.enteract.com [207.229.143.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6499F37BECB for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:10:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Received: from shell-1.enteract.com (dscheidt@shell-1.enteract.com [207.229.143.40]) by mail.enteract.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA47974; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:10:37 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from dscheidt@enteract.com) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 13:10:37 -0600 (CST) From: David Scheidt To: Will Andrews Cc: The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon changes In-Reply-To: <20000224140057.C49578@shadow.blackdawn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Will Andrews wrote: > On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:36:24PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > What happened to the bug-eyed daemon mascot that appeared on the 3.1 and > > 3.2 CD-ROMs and the web site for a while? Is that guy gone for good? > > Um.. I see him at the top of the FreeBSD site.. and he's been on my CDs > as long as I can remember (which is 2.2.6 for me).. all the way through > 3.4-RELEASE. Perhaps your eyes need checking? :-) > There was a different daemon on the 3.1 and 3.2 CDs. Ugly guy with a tray, IIRC. David To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11:19:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from rock.ghis.net (rock.ghis.net [209.222.164.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC9EE37BD18 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:19:06 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from will@blackdawn.com) Received: from shadow.blackdawn.com (postfix@16-164.008.popsite.net [209.69.195.164] (may be forged)) by rock.ghis.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA40611; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:18:58 -0800 (PST) Received: by shadow.blackdawn.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 990171A7E; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:18:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:18:56 -0500 From: Will Andrews To: David Scheidt Cc: The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon changes Message-ID: <20000224141856.F49578@shadow.blackdawn.com> References: <20000224140057.C49578@shadow.blackdawn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: ; from dscheidt@enteract.com on Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:10:37PM -0600 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 3.4-STABLE i386 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:10:37PM -0600, David Scheidt wrote: > > > What happened to the bug-eyed daemon mascot that appeared on the 3.1 and > > > 3.2 CD-ROMs and the web site for a while? Is that guy gone for good? > > > > Um.. I see him at the top of the FreeBSD site.. and he's been on my CDs > > as long as I can remember (which is 2.2.6 for me).. all the way through > > 3.4-RELEASE. Perhaps your eyes need checking? :-) > > There was a different daemon on the 3.1 and 3.2 CDs. Ugly guy with a tray, > IIRC. Yah, that's true. I forgot him quicker than I forgot my laundry. In any case, the rightful daemon is in place, and I'll be damned if he ever leaves.. :-) -- Will Andrews GCS/E/S @d- s+:+>+:- a--->+++ C++ UB++++ P+ L- E--- W+++ !N !o ?K w--- ?O M+ V-- PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+>+++ t++ 5 X++ R+ tv+ b++>++++ DI+++ D+ G++>+++ e->++++ h! r-->+++ y? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11:23: 9 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from orion.ac.hmc.edu (Orion.AC.HMC.Edu [134.173.32.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AA12637C41A for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:22:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from brdavis@orion.ac.hmc.edu) Received: (from brdavis@localhost) by orion.ac.hmc.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA16834; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:22:40 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:22:40 -0800 From: Brooks Davis To: David Scheidt Cc: Will Andrews , The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon changes Message-ID: <20000224112240.A15399@orion.ac.hmc.edu> References: <20000224140057.C49578@shadow.blackdawn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: ; from dscheidt@enteract.com on Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:10:37PM -0600 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:10:37PM -0600, David Scheidt wrote: > On Thu, 24 Feb 2000, Will Andrews wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 24, 2000 at 01:36:24PM -0500, The Classiest Man Alive wrote: > > > What happened to the bug-eyed daemon mascot that appeared on the 3.1 and > > > 3.2 CD-ROMs and the web site for a while? Is that guy gone for good? > > > > Um.. I see him at the top of the FreeBSD site.. and he's been on my CDs > > as long as I can remember (which is 2.2.6 for me).. all the way through > > 3.4-RELEASE. Perhaps your eyes need checking? :-) > > There was a different daemon on the 3.1 and 3.2 CDs. Ugly guy with a tray, > IIRC. Jordan got sick of the complaints and axed him from the covers. He's still on a lot of the promo material, like the buttons. -- Brooks -- Any statement of the form "X is the one, true Y" is FALSE. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11:36:42 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC9C037BEDA for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:36:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from dallas ([12.73.247.153]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <20000224193634.VCNM28762@dallas> for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:36:34 +0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000224143600.00c6e210@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:37:03 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: Re: tracking a computer via IP address In-Reply-To: References: <4.2.2.20000224003858.00bf99c0@mail.threespace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Is the MAC address unique for dialup connections? At 02:02 PM 2/24/00 , John Sconiers wrote: >The best thing to use here would be a MAC address if posssible. > > > How can I locate a particular computer via an IP address? I have an IP > > address for a computer, and I want to find out what computer it may > be. Is > > it possible to trace a computer with a non-fixed IP address such as one > > that gets its address upon making a dialup connection? To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 11:56:11 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net [204.127.131.39]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D966737C38A for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:55:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tech_info@threespace.com) Received: from dallas ([12.73.247.153]) by mtiwmhc04.worldnet.att.net (InterMail v03.02.07.07 118-134) with ESMTP id <20000224195553.VKBR28762@dallas> for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:55:53 +0000 Message-Id: <4.2.2.20000224145305.00c74be0@mail.threespace.com> X-Sender: tech_info@mail.threespace.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.2 Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:56:01 -0500 To: FreeBSD Chat From: Technical Information Subject: FreeBSD daemon change Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Just to put my two cents in, I liked the new goofier looking daemon. He looked like he was ready to get into some mischief, shake things up a little. The traditional one looks like the little kid that we were shakin' down for lunch money back in the 3rd grade.... --Chip Morton To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 12:23:48 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from probity.mcc.ac.uk (probity.mcc.ac.uk [130.88.200.94]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC22537B815 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 12:23:43 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Received: from dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org ([130.88.200.97]) by probity.mcc.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 1.92 #3) id 12O4nP-0005ac-00; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:23:35 +0000 Received: from localhost (jcm@localhost) by dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA22179; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:23:34 GMT (envelope-from jcm@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:23:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Jonathon McKitrick To: Brooks Davis Cc: David Scheidt , Will Andrews , The Classiest Man Alive , FreeBSD Chat Subject: Re: FreeBSD daemon changes In-Reply-To: <20000224112240.A15399@orion.ac.hmc.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org I agree. I know it's just a silly cartoon, but with that picture and the slogan 'power to serve' we'll shoot ourselves in the foot trying to get on the desktop. I'm *so* glad the tray and waiter towel are gone.... -=> jm <=- Please CC me on all replies ------------------------------------------------------- "The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very, very brightly." To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 15:18:27 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from server1.huntsvilleal.com (www.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.7]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FAFC37BC91 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 15:18:23 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Received: from barricuda.bsd.nws.net (kris.huntsvilleal.com [207.13.224.46]) by server1.huntsvilleal.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA08595; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:02:04 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by barricuda.bsd.nws.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA51027; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:18:09 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from kris@hiwaay.net) Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:18:08 -0600 (CST) From: Kris Kirby To: Paul Robinson Cc: Joe Greco , "Daniel C. Sobral" , chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: Filesystem size limit? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > It gets worse when you're talking 'movies' though, because typically a 60 > sec mpeg is going to be as big as 8-9Mb. Therefore you're getting less > time for your byte, however, you might 'appreciate' it more... not that I > know or anything.... :) Paul, We understand perfectly. In the course of maintaining your "user" machines, you have to be on the lookout for MP3s and MPEGs and all sorts of oddities that make ISPs unprofitable. Of course, you can't be held responsible for accidentally double-clicking instead of single-clicking. :-) --- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR | TGIFreeBSD... 'Nuff said. | ------------------------------------------------------- "God gave them the ability to reproduce... ... Science gave us the hope they won't." -KBK To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Thu Feb 24 18:33:53 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from smtp04.primenet.com (smtp04.primenet.com [206.165.6.134]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3707537BD87 for ; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:33:51 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tlambert@usr02.primenet.com) Received: (from daemon@localhost) by smtp04.primenet.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA14256; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:33:24 -0700 (MST) Received: from usr02.primenet.com(206.165.6.202) via SMTP by smtp04.primenet.com, id smtpdAAAMVaG0B; Thu Feb 24 19:33:18 2000 Received: (from tlambert@localhost) by usr02.primenet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id TAA11369; Thu, 24 Feb 2000 19:33:41 -0700 (MST) From: Terry Lambert Message-Id: <200002250233.TAA11369@usr02.primenet.com> Subject: Re: tracking a computer via IP address To: tech_info@threespace.com (Technical Information) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 02:33:41 +0000 (GMT) Cc: chat@FreeBSD.ORG (FreeBSD Chat) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000224003858.00bf99c0@mail.threespace.com> from "Technical Information" at Feb 24, 2000 12:43:27 AM X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > How can I locate a particular computer via an IP address? I have an IP > address for a computer, and I want to find out what computer it may be. Is > it possible to trace a computer with a non-fixed IP address such as one > that gets its address upon making a dialup connection? Give it a cookie, and ask for the cookie back. If the person on the computer has stupidly left his browser set to accept cookies, then you will recognize the computer when it comes back. If you are talking just in general, with no client participation, you can get the ethernet card address (MAC, not IP), IFF you are the next adjacent system/router in the network, but not otherwise. If you are talking dialup, you do it by recognizing the username and password as belonging to a particular person. These last two assume you can correlate ethernet card with PC (and that they are not using the ifconfig option to change their hardware address on you, or running DECNet, which sets the last part of it to the DECNet node identifier), or correlate a person with a PC. Basically, there's no reliable way to do what you're asking to do, if you want to identify a particular instance of a PC. If you could tell us why you wanted to do this, we could probably tell you some other way to accomplish it. If you genuinely want to identify a particular PC, then you are SOL. Terry Lambert terry@lambert.org --- Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present or previous employers. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 6:40:34 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from alpha.cdp.adelphia.net (alpha.cdp.adelphia.net [24.48.64.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E789937BD96 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:40:31 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from pplantier@adelphia.net) Received: from adelphia.net (docsis59-149.cdp.adelphia.net [24.48.59.149]) by alpha.cdp.adelphia.net (8.9.2/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA11853 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:41:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <38B693C3.759BFFF7@adelphia.net> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 09:37:55 -0500 From: Spencer Plantier X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: (no subject) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org subscribe freebsd-questions To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 8:12:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bomber.avantgo.com (ws1.avantgo.com [207.214.200.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6139637C5B9; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:12:16 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@avantgo.com) Received: from avantgo.com ([10.0.128.195]) by bomber.avantgo.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 129; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:07:48 -0800 Message-ID: <38B6850B.AAE49A00@avantgo.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 05:35:08 -0800 From: "Tim Brush" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org, freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: FreeBSD minimal install... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org After performing a minimal installation I noticed a large number of programs that are very useful for a generic installation but are not necessarily useful for a specific server types (i.e. firewall, web server, mail server, etc.). I've begun compiling a list of programs that can (should?) be removed for specific servers (i.e. gcc, f77, uucp, etc.). There is no purpose for these programs on a firewall. I understand that removing these programs only add a tiny bit of security but every little bit helps (you have much bigger problems if someone gains unauthorized access to your systems). My questions are... 1. Has anyone already compiled a similar list? If so, could someone point me to it. Is there a FAQ or additional information regarding this? 2. Would a more appropriate minimal installation have these programs removed? 3. Would people be interested in specific server (firewall, mail server, web server, etc.) configurations? I understand that most people need to take the time to learn the details of their systems (i.e. kernel configurations) but this may offer a head start on configuration issues and save valuable time. Thanks, T To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 8:40:50 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ntstn.sasknow.com (h139-142-245-100.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADB437BB4F for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:40:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ntstn.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA98927; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:40:35 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:40:35 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson Reply-To: Ryan Thompson To: Steve Price Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HTTP_USER_AGENT question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Steve Price wrote to freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG: > Anyone know which browser sports the following HTTP_USER_AGENT? > > Mozilla/4.61 [en]C-AtHome0407 (Win98; U) > > Thanks. As the name might suggest, this is an @Home network browser. @Home distributes a customized Netscape with their software for new signups. This is simply the english version of a modified Netscape 4.61 running under Windows 98. - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 8:57: 3 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from ntstn.sasknow.com (h139-142-245-100.ss.fiberone.net [139.142.245.100]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5624F37C361 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:56:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Received: from localhost (ryan@localhost) by ntstn.sasknow.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA99091; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:56:47 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ryan@sasknow.com) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:56:47 -0600 (CST) From: Ryan Thompson Reply-To: Ryan Thompson To: Tim Brush Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD minimal install... In-Reply-To: <38B6850B.AAE49A00@avantgo.com> Message-ID: Organization: SaskNow Technologies [www.sasknow.com] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Cross-posted freebsd-questions removed from CC. Tim Brush wrote to freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG and freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG: > After performing a minimal installation I noticed a large number of > programs that are very useful for a generic installation but are not > necessarily useful for a specific server types (i.e. firewall, web > server, mail server, etc.). I've begun compiling a list of programs > that can (should?) be removed for specific servers (i.e. gcc, f77, uucp, > etc.). There is no purpose for these programs on a firewall. I > understand that removing these programs only add a tiny bit of security > but every little bit helps (you have much bigger problems if someone > gains unauthorized access to your systems). Hmm... I don't know if I would like to see that happen, for a couple of reasons: 1) As you have mentioned, it won't really make a system that much more secure. In fact, it would probably only accomplish a false sense of security. Many SysAdmins out there know the intricicies of system security, and would already be familiar with which programs they need to chmod 000 or delete outright. I certainly wouldn't trust a "template" to decide that for me on a critical production machine, and I'd probably spend just as much time verifying the setup as I would doing it from a normal install myself. As well, many SysAdmins do NOT know all that much about general system security, and would gladly select the peared down distribution, then go into panic mode when their system still gets cracked or DoS'ed, thinking they should have been protected. Imagine good old Charlie Root leaving a bunch of unencrypted, sensitive files on his machine because, hey, _my_ system is secure. Another scenario: If I built you a house without doors, would you leave $500 USD sitting in plain view through a window? 2) Disabling or not installing certain important parts of the base system, like (as you suggested) gcc, IMO, is NOT a good idea. If I go to fix or troubleshoot a broken FreeBSD system, I want to know what I'm working with. Imagine the flooding to freebsd-questions: "I took over a system from a friend, and I followed the advice in the faq about making the world... Why won't it work??" Or, "why can't I telnet into my machine"? Or "The system didn't come with ..., how do I get it back?" You see the idea. Perhaps if your idea was implemented with extensive documentation, on a command-by-command basis, with copious warning messages for each explaining WHAT the prospective SysAdmin is giving up, it might stave off some of the above problems. However, doing so would add a lot of text bloat to the already-stretched sysinstall. I really don't want to have to use THREE install floppies :-) Of course, it could be placed in an external text file, but that relies on the user actually reading it before installing. I don't want to suggest that people don't always read... But, well, people don't always read :-) - Ryan -- Ryan Thompson Systems Administrator, Accounts Phone: +1 (306) 664-1161 SaskNow Technologies http://www.sasknow.com #106-380 3120 8th St E Saskatoon, SK S7H 0W2 To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 12: 9: 5 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (bachue.usc.unal.edu.co [168.176.3.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1394837BB5D for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:08:56 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from giffunip@asme.org) Received: from asme.org ([216.252.137.194]) by bachue.usc.unal.edu.co (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAAF37 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 15:08:41 -0500 Message-ID: <38B6D3C2.ED4DA57D@asme.org> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 14:10:58 -0500 From: "Pedro F. Giffuni" Reply-To: pfgiffun@bachue.usc.unal.edu.co Organization: Universidad Nacional de Colombia X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD {Sony} (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD minimal install... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Ryan Thompson wrote: > ... > > 2) Disabling or not installing certain important parts of the base system, > like (as you suggested) gcc, IMO, is NOT a good idea. If I go to fix or > troubleshoot a broken FreeBSD system, I want to know what I'm working > with. Imagine the flooding to freebsd-questions: > I think it's an excellent idea. Commercial distributors SCO, IBM and SUN don't include any compiler in their distributions and I don't hear such complains from the users. (Imagine the antimonopoly lawsuit if Microsoft bundles VC++ with Windows :-) Come on, what type of hacker would attempt to "fix" a system if he doesn't know how to install a compiler ? Unbundling gcc would also give a clearer impression that we do not claim to have a "gcc only" OS. I would sincerely like to be able to build kernel with commercial compilers. The problem has always been in our packaging system, from past discussions I understand we will someday manage all the distribution in packages and it will be much easier to build custom installations. cheers, Pedro. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 13: 7:12 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from bomber.avantgo.com (ws1.avantgo.com [207.214.200.194]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5880E37B939 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:07:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tim@avantgo.com) Received: from avantgo.com ([10.0.128.195]) by bomber.avantgo.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id 199; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 13:02:39 -0800 Message-ID: <38B6E6A9.F64FFFEB@avantgo.com> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:31:38 -0800 From: "Tim Brush" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ryan Thompson Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: FreeBSD minimal install... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org > 1) As you have mentioned, it won't really make a system that much more > secure. In fact, it would probably only accomplish a false sense of > security. Many SysAdmins out there know the intricicies of system > security, and would already be familiar with which programs they need to > chmod 000 or delete outright. I certainly wouldn't trust a "template" to > decide that for me on a critical production machine, and I'd probably > spend just as much time verifying the setup as I would doing it from a > normal install myself. As well, many SysAdmins do NOT know all that much > about general system security, and would gladly select the peared down > distribution, then go into panic mode when their system still gets cracked > or DoS'ed, thinking they should have been protected. Imagine good old > Charlie Root leaving a bunch of unencrypted, sensitive files on his > machine because, hey, _my_ system is secure. > > Another scenario: If I built you a house without doors, would you leave > $500 USD sitting in plain view through a window? If the template was configured correctly, the additional security would help (not completely) protect a system. It would plug many of the simple holes that may be overlooked. Although I do believe the number of System Administrators with security knowledge is growing... Unfortunately I would have to say the majority of System Administrators I've interviewed or talked with only have a cursory knowledge of system security (another reason security professionals make a killing). A firewall system is still only one scenerio though... A template could be created for mail servers, web servers, new servers, etc. with details on necessary configuration decisions. Many system administrators work on building their own internal templates, this would help expeditate that process. It could prove very useful to have the experience of individuals who have run large servers of each type document specific configuration gotchas to avoid... I know I'll like to offer my experience with larger mail servers (80,000+ users - POP, 12,000+ users - IMAP and LDAP) into these templates and ease the overall burden of other System Administrators. > 2) Disabling or not installing certain important parts of the base system, > like (as you suggested) gcc, IMO, is NOT a good idea. If I go to fix or > troubleshoot a broken FreeBSD system, I want to know what I'm working > with. Imagine the flooding to freebsd-questions: I understand that certain tools should always be present but do you really use uucp or f77? I do understand that there are individuals out there who use these tools as well. Not every package or port is installed during a base installation, so why have these tools been deemed more valuable then the others? Another solution would be to have a entry in the /var/db/pkg directory for bundled programs for easier removal and have simple configuration scripts that add and remove packages based on template type. Disclaimers or additional template specific mailing lists could be created to handle this traffic. Many System Administrators could benefit and not have to re-invent the wheel. > "I took over a system from a friend, and I followed the advice in the faq > about making the world... Why won't it work??" Or, "why can't I telnet > into my machine"? Or "The system didn't come with ..., how do I get it > back?" You see the idea. If a set of templates were designed and documented with the addition of bundled software being built into packages, many of these problems could be averted. If you knew that the system was built with a mail server template, that works out to including package x, y and z but removes package a, c, d, f and g and you could download packages a, c, d, f and g like any other package if you "needed" to. This may require a better package management system with core system requirement checking (i.e. you can't remove the package that handles booting of the system, etc.) Perhaps this sounds a little too commercial... > Perhaps if your idea was implemented with extensive documentation, on a > command-by-command basis, with copious warning messages for each > explaining WHAT the prospective SysAdmin is giving up, it might stave off > some of the above problems. However, doing so would add a lot of text > bloat to the already-stretched sysinstall. I really don't want to have to > use THREE install floppies :-) Of course, it could be placed in an > external text file, but that relies on the user actually reading it before > installing. I don't want to suggest that people don't always read... But, > well, people don't always read :-) Documentation is unfortunately lacking in most areas... man pages can only do so much and only give hints as to associated commands. >- Ryan To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 18:24:38 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from csla.csl.sri.com (csla.csl.sri.com [192.12.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21AE637BDCF for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:24:34 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@csl.sri.com) Received: from sofia.csl.sri.com (sofia.csl.sri.com [130.107.18.127]) by csla.csl.sri.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA05286 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:24:32 -0800 (PST) From: Marco Molteni Received: (from molter@localhost) by sofia.csl.sri.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id SAA05035 for freebsd-chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:24:32 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:24:32 -0800 To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Subject: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Hi all, I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: void d_printf(const char *format, ...) I would like to make it print automatically the function name from which it is called, eg instead of doing f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } doing simply f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? Thanks Marco -- Marco Molteni "rough consensus and running code" SRI International, System Design Laboratory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 18:47:31 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6654037BA8E for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 18:47:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA25601; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:17:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:17:08 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: Marco Molteni Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000225191708.S21720@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com>; from molter@csl.sri.com on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Marco Molteni [000225 18:54] wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: > > void d_printf(const char *format, ...) > > I would like to make it print automatically the function name > from which it is called, eg instead of doing > > f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } > > doing simply > > f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } > > To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like > > #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) > > but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: > > main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args > > Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? It's kinda ugly but: #define panic(A) \ do { \ panic_set_location(__FILE__, __LINE__); \ panic_print_and_die A ; \ } while (0) you'll need to use your macro like this: panic(("foo! %s", msg)); there is a way to use varargs macros, but i don't think it's portable. good luck, -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 20:58:21 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from sax.sax.de (sax.sax.de [193.175.26.33]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72D6737BC16 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 20:58:08 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mw@theatre.sax.de) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by sax.sax.de (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id FAA23347 for chat@freebsd.org; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:57:57 +0100 (CET) Received: (from mw@localhost) by theatre.lan (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA67717 for chat@freebsd.org; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:44:26 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from mw) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 22:44:25 +0100 From: Martin Welk To: chat@freebsd.org Subject: Re: FreeBSD minimal install... Message-ID: <20000225224425.B66576@theatre.lan> References: <38B6850B.AAE49A00@avantgo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: ; from ryan@sasknow.com on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 10:56:47AM -0600 Organization: Private UUCP/Usenet site. X-Operating-System: FreeBSD http://www.freebsd.org/ Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 10:56:47AM -0600, Ryan Thompson wrote: > 2) Disabling or not installing certain important parts of the base system, > like (as you suggested) gcc, IMO, is NOT a good idea. If I go to fix or > troubleshoot a broken FreeBSD system, I want to know what I'm working > with. Imagine the flooding to freebsd-questions: One pain I see is that the complete buildworld/installworld upgrade procedure would have to be changed totally. I could imagine some scenario where ``the world'' would update only commands that are already installed, but in the mentioned example, you cannot do buildworld without gcc, and even many more tools. Who wants to take care of all those dependencies? For disabling things for userland for security, I could imagine some sort of script (perhaps something that has to do with mtree) that has to be configured individually for a system and disables programs - for example, by removing all r/w/x flags from files (UUCP, telnetd and more) or makes them executable only by a special user or group (like make, gcc, install and more developer's tools). This could be ran after an installworld to make updating easy. Perhaps one could enhance the security report for file system changes, but I guess that will need some paranoia because there are files that change every moment in a while, like log files. Okay, you can still have a list of ``trusted'' files and check if they look like an executable when they shouldn't (again, log files, as one example). > Perhaps if your idea was implemented with extensive documentation, on a > command-by-command basis, with copious warning messages for each > explaining WHAT the prospective SysAdmin is giving up, it might stave off > some of the above problems. However, doing so would add a lot of text I guess this is some advanced configuration that shouldn't have to do much with sysinstall. You still need some experienced systems administrator for having real security - for the ordinary user it will IMO only give some pseudo-security because they do not really know what they do. > bloat to the already-stretched sysinstall. I really don't want to have to > use THREE install floppies :-) Of course, it could be placed in an Hey, this will bring FreeBSD install closer to Windows NT installation! Just kidding... :-) > external text file, but that relies on the user actually reading it before > installing. I don't want to suggest that people don't always read... But, > well, people don't always read :-) "Hey, I've got an error message, can you look at it?" "What's the message?" "Err..." (Looking at the monitor and starting to read...) Regards, Martin -- ,,Oh, there's a lot of opportunities, if you're knowing to take them, you know, there's a lot of opportunities, if there aren't you can make them, make or break them!'' (Tennant/Lowe) To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 21: 6:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 526A737BBC9 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:06:36 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20782; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:11:22 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:11:22 -0500 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Marco Molteni Cc: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Reply-To: cjclark@home.com References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com>; from molter@csl.sri.com on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800, Marco Molteni wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: > > void d_printf(const char *format, ...) > > I would like to make it print automatically the function name > from which it is called, eg instead of doing > > f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } > > doing simply > > f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } > > To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like > > #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) > > but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: > > main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args > > Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? Yeah, I use the same type of thing to produce error messages. I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding exactly what you are trying to do above, so I'll just show my solution to my problem. I wanted to just be able to do, errmsg(char fmt, ...) But have it print, cmd(file:line)- Error message Where 'cmd' is the name of the program (the tail of argv[0]), 'file' is the C source file name, and 'num' is the line number. char *cmd void _errmsg(char *fmt, ... ) { va_list ap; va_start(ap,fmt); vfprintf(stderr,fmt,ap); va_end(ap); } #define errmsg fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg Gets me around the varargs in the precompiler by not using _any_ args in the macro. So, errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); Expands to, fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); And you know, it works. Big help in debugging big apps. When it's sent bound for users, I make the messages a bit less verbose, but only takes the one change. -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 21:16:39 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 579E637BE26 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:16:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA29905; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:46:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:46:17 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: cjclark@home.com Cc: Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>; from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com on Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 12:11:22AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Crist J. Clark [000225 21:36] wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800, Marco Molteni wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: > > > > void d_printf(const char *format, ...) > > > > I would like to make it print automatically the function name > > from which it is called, eg instead of doing > > > > f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > doing simply > > > > f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like > > > > #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) > > > > but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: > > > > main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args > > > > Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? > > Yeah, I use the same type of thing to produce error messages. I'm > having a little bit of trouble understanding exactly what you are > trying to do above, so I'll just show my solution to my problem. > > I wanted to just be able to do, > > errmsg(char fmt, ...) > > But have it print, > > cmd(file:line)- Error message > > Where 'cmd' is the name of the program (the tail of argv[0]), 'file' > is the C source file name, and 'num' is the line number. > > char *cmd > > void _errmsg(char *fmt, ... ) > { > va_list ap; > > va_start(ap,fmt); > vfprintf(stderr,fmt,ap); > va_end(ap); > } > > #define errmsg fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg > > > Gets me around the varargs in the precompiler by not using _any_ > args in the macro. So, > > errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > Expands to, > > fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > And you know, it works. Big help in debugging big apps. When it's sent > bound for users, I make the messages a bit less verbose, but only > takes the one change. One of the nasty side effects is that this makes the macro expand to multiple statements. what's so bad about that? if (foo < 0) errmsg("foo < 0"); Macros that expand to multiple statements ought to be enclosed in a do { } while(0) loop. Although the extra parens are ugly, it things a bit safer/cleaner. -Alfred To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 21:21:13 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from csla.csl.sri.com (csla.csl.sri.com [192.12.33.2]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2957137BC5C for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:21:07 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from molter@csl.sri.com) Received: from sofia.csl.sri.com (sofia.csl.sri.com [130.107.18.127]) by csla.csl.sri.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id VAA06785 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:21:06 -0800 (PST) From: Marco Molteni Received: (from molter@localhost) by sofia.csl.sri.com (8.9.3/8.8.7) id VAA05677 for freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:21:05 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:21:05 -0800 To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000225212105.A5667@sofia.csl.sri.com> Mail-Followup-To: freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre4i In-Reply-To: <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:46:17PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, 25 Feb 2000, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > One of the nasty side effects is that this makes the macro expand to > multiple statements. > > what's so bad about that? > > if (foo < 0) > errmsg("foo < 0"); > > Macros that expand to multiple statements ought to be enclosed in a > do { } while(0) loop. Alfred, I saw many macros in the kernel sources enclosed in a do {} while (0) loop. Could you explain why > Macros that expand to multiple statements ought to be enclosed in a > do { } while(0) loop. Thanks Marco -- Marco Molteni "rough consensus and running code" SRI International, System Design Laboratory To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 21:33:32 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com [24.2.89.207]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CDD837BC5C for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 21:33:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com) Received: (from cjc@localhost) by cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA20895; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:37:41 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from cjc) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 00:37:41 -0500 From: "Crist J. Clark" To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: cjclark@home.com, Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Reply-To: cjclark@home.com References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net>; from bright@wintelcom.net on Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:46:17PM -0800 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:46:17PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Crist J. Clark [000225 21:36] wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800, Marco Molteni wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: > > > > > > void d_printf(const char *format, ...) > > > > > > I would like to make it print automatically the function name > > > from which it is called, eg instead of doing > > > > > > f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > > > doing simply > > > > > > f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > > > To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like > > > > > > #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) > > > > > > but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: > > > > > > main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args > > > > > > Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? > > > > Yeah, I use the same type of thing to produce error messages. I'm > > having a little bit of trouble understanding exactly what you are > > trying to do above, so I'll just show my solution to my problem. > > > > I wanted to just be able to do, > > > > errmsg(char fmt, ...) > > > > But have it print, > > > > cmd(file:line)- Error message > > > > Where 'cmd' is the name of the program (the tail of argv[0]), 'file' > > is the C source file name, and 'num' is the line number. > > > > char *cmd > > > > void _errmsg(char *fmt, ... ) > > { > > va_list ap; > > > > va_start(ap,fmt); > > vfprintf(stderr,fmt,ap); > > va_end(ap); > > } > > > > #define errmsg fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg > > > > > > Gets me around the varargs in the precompiler by not using _any_ > > args in the macro. So, > > > > errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > > > Expands to, > > > > fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > > > And you know, it works. Big help in debugging big apps. When it's sent > > bound for users, I make the messages a bit less verbose, but only > > takes the one change. > > One of the nasty side effects is that this makes the macro expand to > multiple statements. > > what's so bad about that? > > if (foo < 0) > errmsg("foo < 0"); > > Macros that expand to multiple statements ought to be enclosed in a > do { } while(0) loop. > > Although the extra parens are ugly, it things a bit safer/cleaner. Why a, do { } while(0) Rather than just, { } That's how I group multi-statement macros, but that does not work for this one. I just saw your answer and I guess it boils down to which is more ugly and which is easier to forget to do properly, Yours, d_printf((fmt,arg1,arg2)); Or mine, { d_printf(fmt,arg1,arg2); } Extra pair of parenthesis or extra pair of curly brackets? ;) Or am I overlooking another vulnerability? -- Crist J. Clark cjclark@home.com To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Fri Feb 25 23:19:41 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from fw.wintelcom.net (ns1.wintelcom.net [209.1.153.20]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 146C737BF73 for ; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:19:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from bright@fw.wintelcom.net) Received: (from bright@localhost) by fw.wintelcom.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA02923; Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:49:09 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:49:09 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein To: cjclark@home.com Cc: Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000225234909.W21720@fw.wintelcom.net> References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>; from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com on Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 12:37:41AM -0500 Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org * Crist J. Clark [000225 22:02] wrote: > On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 09:46:17PM -0800, Alfred Perlstein wrote: > > * Crist J. Clark [000225 21:36] wrote: > > > On Fri, Feb 25, 2000 at 06:24:32PM -0800, Marco Molteni wrote: > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > I have a function that takes a variable number of arguments: > > > > > > > > void d_printf(const char *format, ...) > > > > > > > > I would like to make it print automatically the function name > > > > from which it is called, eg instead of doing > > > > > > > > f() { d_printf("f: blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > > > > > doing simply > > > > > > > > f() { d_printf("blabla", x, y, z); } > > > > > > > > To do that, I though of wrapping d_printf() around a macro like > > > > > > > > #define dprintf(x) d_printf(__FUNCTION__, x) > > > > > > > > but whatever combination I use (also with #), the thing is not going to work: > > > > > > > > main.c:231: macro `d_printf' used with too many (4) args > > > > > > > > Is it possible to trick the C preprocessor to do what I want? > > > > > > Yeah, I use the same type of thing to produce error messages. I'm > > > having a little bit of trouble understanding exactly what you are > > > trying to do above, so I'll just show my solution to my problem. > > > > > > I wanted to just be able to do, > > > > > > errmsg(char fmt, ...) > > > > > > But have it print, > > > > > > cmd(file:line)- Error message > > > > > > Where 'cmd' is the name of the program (the tail of argv[0]), 'file' > > > is the C source file name, and 'num' is the line number. > > > > > > char *cmd > > > > > > void _errmsg(char *fmt, ... ) > > > { > > > va_list ap; > > > > > > va_start(ap,fmt); > > > vfprintf(stderr,fmt,ap); > > > va_end(ap); > > > } > > > > > > #define errmsg fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg > > > > > > > > > Gets me around the varargs in the precompiler by not using _any_ > > > args in the macro. So, > > > > > > errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > > > > > Expands to, > > > > > > fprintf(stderr,"%s(%s:%d)- ",cmd,__FILE__,__LINE__); _errmsg("cannot fine file: %s\n",str); > > > > > > And you know, it works. Big help in debugging big apps. When it's sent > > > bound for users, I make the messages a bit less verbose, but only > > > takes the one change. > > > > One of the nasty side effects is that this makes the macro expand to > > multiple statements. > > > > what's so bad about that? > > > > if (foo < 0) > > errmsg("foo < 0"); > > > > Macros that expand to multiple statements ought to be enclosed in a > > do { } while(0) loop. > > > > Although the extra parens are ugly, it things a bit safer/cleaner. > > Why a, > > do { } while(0) > > Rather than just, > > { } I really don't remeber offhand, I know a lot of macros in FreeBSD are moved from #define foo { bar; baz; } to #define foo do{ bar; baz; }while(0) I think it has to do with the fact that '{ .. }' is not a statement, but a block, it will break in certain constructs. Check the commitlogs and cross reference the code that was fixed by macros being changed to do/while in the tree. > That's how I group multi-statement macros, but that does not work for > this one. You should use do/while > > I just saw your answer and I guess it boils down to which is more ugly > and which is easier to forget to do properly, > > Yours, > > d_printf((fmt,arg1,arg2)); > > Or mine, > > { d_printf(fmt,arg1,arg2); } > > Extra pair of parenthesis or extra pair of curly brackets? ;) > > Or am I overlooking another vulnerability? It's easy to forget the braces and it will slip by most likely without a compile time warning, it's safer to do it our way. -- -Alfred Perlstein - [bright@wintelcom.net|alfred@freebsd.org] To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 26 5:47:18 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from scientia.demon.co.uk (scientia.demon.co.uk [212.228.14.13]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 109E637BC8B for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 05:46:47 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from ben@scientia.demon.co.uk) Received: from strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk ([192.168.91.36] ident=exim) by scientia.demon.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.12 #1) id 12Ogsn-000CKQ-00; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:03:41 +0000 Received: (from ben) by strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk (Exim 3.12 #7) id 12Ogsn-000PkQ-00; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:03:41 +0000 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:03:41 +0000 From: Ben Smithurst To: Alfred Perlstein Cc: cjclark@home.com, Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000226130341.B98536@strontium.scientia.demon.co.uk> References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225234909.W21720@fw.wintelcom.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000225234909.W21720@fw.wintelcom.net> Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org Alfred Perlstein wrote: > * Crist J. Clark [000225 22:02] wrote: >> >> Why a, >> >> do { } while(0) >> >> Rather than just, >> >> { } > > I really don't remeber offhand, I know a lot of macros in FreeBSD > are moved from > > #define foo { bar; baz; } > > to > > #define foo do{ bar; baz; }while(0) with the original #define, if (some_condition) foo; else bar(); would expand to, if (some_condition) { bar; baz; }; else bar(); That is a syntax error (extra semicolon before "else"). I used to use the form without do/while until this bit me. :-) With the second form, well you can work it out, and the expanded code is perfectly legal. -- Ben Smithurst / ben@scientia.demon.co.uk / PGP: 0x99392F7D To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message From owner-freebsd-chat Sat Feb 26 14:32:20 2000 Delivered-To: freebsd-chat@freebsd.org Received: from mail2.x-treme.gr (mail2.x-treme.gr [212.120.196.24]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3808A37B596 for ; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:31:40 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from keramida@ceid.upatras.gr) Received: from hades.hell.gr (pat58.x-treme.gr [212.120.197.250]) by mail2.x-treme.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3/IPNG-ADV-ANTISPAM-0.1) with ESMTP id AAA13995; Sun, 27 Feb 2000 00:30:26 +0200 Received: by hades.hell.gr (Postfix, from userid 1001) id 0CBC8DD283; Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:23:24 +0200 (EET) Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:23:24 +0200 From: Giorgos Keramidas To: cjclark@home.com Cc: Alfred Perlstein , Marco Molteni , freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: how to do this C preprocessor trick? Message-ID: <20000226232324.C99617@hades.hell.gr> Reply-To: keramida@ceid.upatras.gr References: <20000225182432.A5017@sofia.csl.sri.com> <20000226001121.A20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> <20000225214616.U21720@fw.wintelcom.net> <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <20000226003741.C20702@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com>; from cjc@cc942873-a.ewndsr1.nj.home.com on Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 12:37:41AM -0500 X-PGP-Fingerprint: 62 45 D1 C9 26 F9 95 06 D6 21 2A C8 8C 16 C0 8E X-Phone-Number: +30-94-6203692, +30-93-2886457 X-Address: Theodorou Kirinaiou 61, 26334 Patra, Greece Sender: owner-freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.org On Sat, Feb 26, 2000 at 12:37:41AM -0500, Crist J. Clark wrote: > > Why a, > > do { } while(0) > > Rather than just, > > { } > > That's how I group multi-statement macros, but that does not work for > this one. One fairly good reason that I can clearly remember is that, with the extra do { .. } while (0) wrapping, one gets the extra benefit of being able to define properly scoped local variables within the macro body. -- Giorgos Keramidas, < keramida @ ceid . upatras . gr > For my public PGP key: finger keramida@diogenis.ceid.upatras.gr PGP fingerprint, phone and address in the headers of this message. To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message