From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sun Jun 7 18:59:26 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB6D0334909 for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 18:59:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: from mail-io1-xd41.google.com (mail-io1-xd41.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49g5K96pJVz4WVJ for ; Sun, 7 Jun 2020 18:59:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from aryeh.friedman@gmail.com) Received: by mail-io1-xd41.google.com with SMTP id k8so3925770iol.13 for ; Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:59:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=nNR787RiON2zBlouX9YwEGZhT/8M2P9pa45bv88wxRs=; b=r+YDC36OYX320jVvC7+C22LevPK677l3XOcFlWiTcNbdBI/52GdLNPt5NmqgWZKbrn q8Bf4hbOKpKMFVCsVjjPsoNdxbGbyeDPXZ2rBkUf6aDPDPD+6PjYHhy8939ui8e7YxCJ /FmLLi1Dz0oLApN+VfDI948pu86oQiLCoZKoA0Q0xrVYim+yM+NG0VB7p9fUoGhpAoEH oByVEV76Fl64FFoR8na9+XiKEdq0AC0aZNMiLjsQQD/LdcAy3Q59pJcwboffqNmGuwl5 xo4XLEszZhDW510TTtVHXCM1CgtcP/1FGS6NZvCVJEI7e/lFHQipeXi5QUZxcxKp4b6S 32QQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nNR787RiON2zBlouX9YwEGZhT/8M2P9pa45bv88wxRs=; b=m1yMc67J1nW7xHR8GlDQq3nuRvVqqPkplsdTMZEwUu43oAFLA8Q/VDMMGQ1J2QkM0G ACGKlnm5k5oUjAtoNRffgajXgBHBbNjVC8EHRrQ9ovzTdnMPwcHH5x6hq9Su0T9y0mUM GT9vnjmhSLaT7TMvvRoGgKl2zUg5U/xUELMbQuvlimNdk7QDkJsK+7KLF5RYLcnbyobi vNRJuYc61bhsd7wBzGe/yHWCZSFuKvLmIQ7uEWSG1sK5dzrDWfSZ9xYHnn9xlc0CRgd1 3/ahV8bikm2FkL9Ly+m2LlKhdkSk4ce4uakIMZ1H3sJgJ5ShFKSR9kmRfmzaSwjvRacn uxjA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533ZScQRyQ3tNSvBc7kvcl/w0T41vFJPcvfm3dwDQbUKZxgHGMWM B8exrWvDdzHUGD75OzrERVOtvoKkHFg7qKZE+Is= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx+a12NzceCFL1D7phRZkhdDFVrAL+HpcmfVpCfu1+OsFERGGRizRtsb6IXf8+wRZNoi6IGynnFnb6FOWlj1hc= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:5915:: with SMTP id n21mr18663505iob.103.1591556365005; Sun, 07 Jun 2020 11:59:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Aryeh Friedman Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2020 14:59:12 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Minimal skills To: dwilde1@gmail.com Cc: Valeri Galtsev , FreeBSD Mailing List X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49g5K96pJVz4WVJ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=r+YDC36O; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of aryehfriedman@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=aryehfriedman@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.02 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.02)[-1.018]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2607:f8b0:4000::/36:c]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.02)[-1.021]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::d41:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.983]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 07 Jun 2020 18:59:26 -0000 On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 2:48 PM Donald Wilde wrote: > On 6/7/20, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2020 at 1:46 PM Valeri Galtsev > > > wrote: > > > >> > >> > >> > On Jun 6, 2020, at 8:17 PM, Aryeh Friedman > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > On Sat, Jun 6, 2020 at 5:06 AM Vincent DEFERT <20.100@defert.com> > >> > wrote: > >> > > >> >> My advice: NEVER, ever, learn Java, for if you do, you'll never want > >> >> to > >> >> use another language and that could be a handicap in a new > developer's > >> >> career. > >> >> > >> > > >> > I switched 10 years ago to Java after 15 years of C/C++ (and an odd > >> > assortment of other languages) and certainly agree with the idea of > not > >> > wanting to use another language. Think of Java as the family SUV, > >> > not > >> > particularly fast and nimble when you need high performance or very > low > >> > level work but what is it good for nothing is better (rock solid code > >> that > >> > doesn't require the above). That being said you should learn it but > >> learn > >> > it with other languages. > >> > > >> > >> To the OP: > >> > >> As someone already said in this thread: Java is proprietary, and Oracle > >> who bought out Sun Microsystems (the creator of Java) started charging > >> money end users of applications written in Java. > >> > >> > > Where on Earth did you get the idea that Oracle charges/gets royalties > for > > 3rd application in Java!?!?!??!?!? I have *NEVER* paid a dime for any > > application and/or anything else written in Java (nor is there any > language > > in the legal material that comes with the language and/or any of the > tools > > that would even allow for a royalty)... the language spec is completely > > open and anyone can write a compiler or a JVM (all the specs are > completely > > available)..... IBM has made one so have a few other people including > GNU. > > > You can use java 8 for your own purposes but Oracle's license > agreement on their website clearly states that only up until Java 7 is > it truly free. :-( This change occurred several years ago now. > > I don't have time to get the citation to support Valeri's assertion, > but it is true. > Then Wikipedia MUST be wrong? A direct quote from there article on OpenJDK (1st paragraph): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK "OpenJDK (Open Java Development Kit) is a free and open-source implementation of the Java Platform, Standard Edition (Java SE).[1] It is the result of an effort Sun Microsystems began in 2006. The implementation is licensed under the GNU General Public License (GNU GPL) version 2 with a linking exception. Were it not for the GPL linking exception, components that linked to the Java class library would be subject to the terms of the GPL license. OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java SE since version 7.[2][3][4]" And from the the OpenJDK web site itself: "Will Oracle change the OpenJDK licensing model? No. The OpenJDK Community continues to thrive with contributions from Oracle, as well as other companies, researchers, and individuals, and the GPL-based licensing model is one large part of this success. Oracle has no plans to change it." https://openjdk.java.net/faq/ As to the language spec license and jvm spec license: https://docs.oracle.com/javase/specs/jls/se14/html/spec-license.html (Apache derived license due to needing the patent infringement clause). [There are no patents that pertain to Java per se] -- Aryeh M. Friedman, Lead Developer, http://www.PetiteCloud.org