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Date:      Fri, 9 Dec 2005 11:31:48 -0800
From:      "vizion" <vizion@vizion.occoxmail.com>
To:        "'Michael C. Shultz'" <ringworm01@gmail.com>, <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Cc:        'Peter Jeremy' <PeterJeremy@optushome.com.au>, 'Doug Barton' <dougb@freebsd.org>
Subject:   RE: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic
Message-ID:  <000001c5fcf7$3333ed90$59ab3a40@sleuth>
In-Reply-To: <200512091032.29029.ringworm01@gmail.com>

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael C. Shultz [mailto:ringworm01@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 10:32 AM
> To: vizion
> Cc: 'Peter Jeremy'; 'Doug Barton'
> Subject: Re: Upgrading 5.3 > 6.0 buildworld failure now in libmagic
>=20
> On Friday 09 December 2005 09:39, vizion wrote:
> > > Vison, you are much better at writting florid prose on how and why
> > > FreeBSD is
> > > such an awful OS run by a team of Techies who care nothing about =
end
> > > users needs than you are at reading and comprehending simple
> > > instructions.
> > >
> > >  What you write is almost believable, your writing skill is very =
good
> and
> > > convincing, only in this particualr case I know you are completely
> wrong
> > > and
> > > your failure to follow the simplest advice is why your machine is =
now
> non
> > > operational.  Quit crying about non relevent issues and =
concentrate on
> > > solving your real problem - getting that darn machine to boot up.
> > >
> > > One last thought, name one OS that has better documentation than
> FreeBSD
> > > please, comercial or otherwise.  Maybe there is such a beast, if =
so I
> am
> > > very
> > > curious to know what it is called.
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > Rather than replying to the list I am emailing you direct and cc =
onl;y
> the
> > individuals to whom you cc'd your original.
> >
> > Frankly I never ceased to be amazed at diversionary personalized =
attacks
> > that seem to be a regular occurrence on freebsd lists whenever =
someone
> > makes friendly but critical observations about freebsd.  There is a
> > touchyness there which is a big deterrent to the engagement of =
others
> and a
> > tendency to paternalize which, on rare occasions, is an unspeakably =
ugly
> > aspect of some freebsd interactions.
> >
> > I do not know the root cause of such over-defensiveness I am =
constantly
> > amazed when old timers do not recognize it. It is time to grow up =
and I
> > hope something will happen to discourage people from arguing ad
> personam.
> >
> > Your remarks seem to have been written with the deliberate intention =
of
> > attacking the messenger rather than discussing the message. You did =
not
> > even aspire to achieving accuracy.
> >
> > The fact the my system did upgrade successfully from 5.3 to 5.4 by
> > following your advice does not give you the right to make false
> assumptions
> > about a failed upgrade from 5.4 to 6.0 that is due to a combination =
of
> > events that have nothing whatsoever to do with the topic under
> discussion,
> > advice that has been given or even freebsd or its documentation. It
> turns
> > out that a motherboard hardware failure was the casue of the upgrade
> > failure.. hence I have to do a total rebuild because the motherboard =
is
> no
> > longer available.
>=20
>=20
> And this is your excuse for attacking the FreeBSD organization? =20
No  and I have nott attacked "the organization".  The c ritic of the way =
in
which documentation is  not integrated ionto the freebsd development =
cycle
was made long before there was any motherboard failure.  I do wish you =
would
stick to the facts.=20



I'm sure
> everyone feels bad for you that you have to get a new motherboard.   I =
am
> confused as to how better coordination between developers and =
technical
> writers could have prevented it from failing though.


I have not made that suggestion - only you have put forward that notion =
--
come on laugh a bit - you are really being a bit wild and cranky over =
this
<chuckles>. The motherboard failure occurred after the discussion on
documentation not before <GRINZ> you really are missing the point here.
> >
> > As for the use of  perjorative terminology (florid prose) and false
> > accusations - I am really personally very disappointed in your
> reactions.
> >
> > What you seemed to be saying was that you were unable to counter my
> > suggestions which were so unwelcome to you that you chose to attack =
me
> > personally.
>=20
> Your suggestions were irrelevent to the problem at hand.=20
My suggestions are very relevant to the documentary errors, omissions =
and
lack of documentary integration that waste much of the time of many end
users.=20
=20

My suggestions were, it is true, were off the original topic and came =
about
as a response to someone else who complained about freebsd documentation =
and
I responded to him.=20

He was strongly critical because the  documentation stated that direct
upgrade from 5.3 to 6.00 was possible when, as you pointed out, it was =
not.=20

I suggest you reread the whole thread with care and look at the sequence =
of
events instead of massaging a false interpretation events to satisfy a
desire to argue add personam..

> tecnical
> help that is one thing, if you want to improve documentaion that is
> another
> topic with it's own mail list.

I see this as more diversionary BS you could have said:
"Hey david -- sorry I should not have jumped to conclusions"

> >
> > I am disappointed that you react that way to me and even more =
concerned
> > that those who have been around far less years than I will be
> intimidated
> > by this kind of BS
> >
> > Please grow up
> >
> > david
>=20
> One last point, either remove me from the reply to list or place the
> maillist
> back on it, thank you.

I think you owe me an apology - but I doubt I will get it.


OK I will send this to the list
>=20
> -Mike




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