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Date:      Thu, 28 Feb 2019 17:03:03 -0800
From:      Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>
To:        Doug Kirk <dbkirk@gmail.com>
Cc:        FreeBSD X11 mailing list <freebsd-x11@freebsd.org>, freebsd-arch@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: DRM removal soon
Message-ID:  <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <CAGhTqAVmrRedSpRf0w9zBgfzEpcLpxb=1wZjZ6%2Bdrm7E%2B2gM7A@mail.gmail.com>
References:  <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <CAGhTqAXx-xBM6yP33DW5QRYVzexURy7asCd4HJgfCOShGPO4rw@mail.gmail.com> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <CAGhTqAVmrRedSpRf0w9zBgfzEpcLpxb=1wZjZ6%2Bdrm7E%2B2gM7A@mail.gmail.com>

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On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 06:35:14PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote:
> 

(top posting fixed).

> On Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 5:07 PM Steve Kargl <sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu>
> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 03:53:53PM -0600, Doug Kirk wrote:
> > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 3:07 PM Steve Kargl <
> > > sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Seems our experiences are exact opposites.  :(
> > > >
> > > > I suppose it is the bane of those of who cannot afford
> > > > new hardware every 2 or 3 years.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Hmm, because amd64 has only been available for the last 2 or 3 years? It
> > > was added to FreeBSD as experimental in 5.1-RELEASE (June 2003) and
> > > standard in 5.2-RELEASE (January 2004).
> >
> > I have a amd64 system with
> >
> > CPU: AMD FX(tm)-8350 Eight-Core Processor  (4018.33-MHz K8-class CPU)
> > Origin="AuthenticAMD"  Id=0x600f20  Family=0x15  Model=0x2  Stepping=0
> >
> > Guess what?  Yep, it uses drm-legacy-kmod because the radeon video
> > card (drmn0: <Caicos [Radeon HD 6450]>) I have is sort of not supported
> > by drm-current-kmod.  When I tried to use drm-current-kmod, I watched
> > /var/log/message fill up with some error message about waiting for a
> > mfence memory barrier.  I was advised by the graphics team to use
> > drm-legacy-kmod.
> >
> > Sure, I can just run out an buy a shiny new video card, which will
> > be obsolescence in a few years and fall off the support video list.
> > At which point, I can rinse and repeat.
> >
> > > Jeff Atwood commented on desktop adoption of x86-64 in 2007 here:
> > > https://blog.codinghorror.com/is-it-time-for-64-bit-on-the-desktop/ ,
> > and
> > > it even mentions that graphics cards don't like 32-bit limits.
> > >
> > > If you bought an x86-32 system within the last 2-3 years, why is that
> > > anybody else's fault that your graphics-based computer was obsolete when
> > > you bought it?
> >
> > You have completely missed the point.  I didn't buy the laptop
> > in the last 2 or 3 years.  It is several years old.  The system
> > was working just fine until the PAE vs non-PAE merge was committed
> > (which surprise effects i386 systems).
> >
> > It is the system on which I work out the bits for libm, where the i387
> > FPU is set such that long double only has 53-bits of precision.  Yep,
> > I know, no one uses i386-class systems for numerical work.  Given the
> > condition of libm and the crickets on freebsd-numerics@, it seems very
> > few people do any numerical research with freebsd.
> >
> > > Please stop whining on the mailing list, you're just adding noise by
> > > setting up straw-man arguments.
> >
> > I suppose pointing out that "the emperor has no clothes" can
> > be considered whining.  When I commit a patch to the gcc tree,
> > if it affects others, I work to fix the problem.  I don't shoot
> > the messenger.  At one point in time, FreeBSD developers cared
> > about the quality of their work.
> >
> 
> I'm not FreeBSD developer, I don't want you thinking I am and blame them.
> 
> But you've beat this horse dead already. No reason to rehash it again.
> 
> I also value a high S/N ratio, as otherwise it's just wasting my time.
> 

drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days.

Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping
drm-legacy-kmod.

The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base.  Hopefully, drm2/drm-legacy
is not the shape of things to come.

-- 
Steve



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